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Kuro5hin, now you can read it from across the room

By ramses0 in News
Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 08:21:19 PM EST
Tags: Kuro5hin.org (all tags)
Kuro5hin.org

I sure hope I'm not the only one that noticed how much K5 has... um... "changed" overnight. Since it seems rusty is examining different styles for K5's appearance, I think it would be neat to give some comments and feedback about the new look.

If you're particularly daring, take the front page (or a page with comments) and redo a mockup of the HTML how -you- would like to see it done. (make sure it's browser-compatible)


If you don't feel up to doing actual work, think up a slogan to describe this new look...

  • k5: Now enhanced for viewing without glasses or contacts
  • k5: Easier to read over your neighbor's shoulder
  • k5: Subtle? No.
  • k5: Fonts so big, it's physically painful
  • ...

(sorry for poking fun, rusty, but hopefully some good quality feedback will also rise to the top)

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Kuro5hin, now you can read it from across the room | 73 comments (73 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
I just think it's damn kind of rust... (1.00 / 2) (#5)
by fvw on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 06:50:43 PM EST

fvw voted 1 on this story.

I just think it's damn kind of rusty to have allowed us a full two letters per line :-)

I like the big font size for the ti... (2.00 / 2) (#9)
by pulsar on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 07:04:03 PM EST

pulsar voted 1 on this story.

I like the big font size for the titles.. makes it easy to sit back, wish I were naping, and keep up on the news.

I was kinda hoping for some feedbac... (4.00 / 1) (#1)
by rusty on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 07:05:45 PM EST

rusty voted 1 on this story.

I was kinda hoping for some feedback on this too. What I'd love to get are some screenshot of how it looks in diffeent OS/browser combos, considering I only really can look at it in Netscape 4.x/Mozilla/lynx on linux. Are the fonts that bad? It looks ok for me. :-)

____
Not the real rusty

What is thy bidding, sire... (3.00 / 1) (#17)
by evro on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 09:09:37 PM EST

MacOS browser screenshots at http://www.evanhoffman.com/k5/. Only the front page; if you want more, lemme know. IE5 probably orignally looked more like the Netscape 6 one, but I changed the resolution and fontsize (I like the smaller font).

BTW, Verdana was definitely the right choice for the font, though I may be biased since it's my favorite font for small web text.
---
"Asking me who to follow -- don't ask me, I don't know!"
[ Parent ]

page reloaded (none / 0) (#18)
by evro on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 09:11:22 PM EST

I was pressing the back button and this post page reloaded so the comment was posted twice. Bug! Bug!
---
"Asking me who to follow -- don't ask me, I don't know!"
[ Parent ]
Re: page reloaded (none / 0) (#20)
by rusty on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 09:15:38 PM EST

Eek! Didn't it ask you if you wanted to resubmit form data??? What browser are you using BTW. This could explain why a few people have been having multiple-posting problems.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Re: page reloaded (none / 0) (#24)
by evro on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 09:26:01 PM EST

IE 4.5/Mac.  It didn't ask, otherwise I woulda said no.  Don't the stories have
a unique id?  Can't you just see if  story 12391239 was already posted and if
so barf back an error?

---
"Asking me who to follow -- don't ask me, I don't know!"
[ Parent ]
Re: I was kinda hoping for some feedbac... (none / 0) (#27)
by bmetzler on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 10:00:49 PM EST

What I'd love to get are some screenshot of how it looks in diffeent OS/browser combos, considering I only really can look at it in Netscape 4.x/Mozilla/lynx on linux.

Well, since I had access to a Windows Box (EWW!!!) I thought I'd grab a few screenshots for you. I got one of Netscape 4.x and one of IE 5 at http://www.bmetzler.org/k5. If I get access to any other OS/Browsers, I'll stick those up there too.

-Brent
www.bmetzler.org - it's not just a personal weblog, it's so much more.
[ Parent ]
Re: I was kinda hoping for some feedbac... (none / 0) (#28)
by rusty on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 10:26:50 PM EST

Hmm. what's with the extra-thick link bar in ie?

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Re: I was kinda hoping for some feedbac... (none / 0) (#33)
by bmetzler on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 10:41:14 PM EST

Hmm. what's with the extra-thick link bar in ie?

I have *no* idea, but it looks *dreadfully* awful. I noticed that IE on the Mac also displayed the bar extra thick too, so it's not just a problem with IE on Windows. But it *is* an IE parsing problem, not a problem with your page. All my pages do that with IE too. It looks atrocious.

-Brent
www.bmetzler.org - it's not just a personal weblog, it's so much more.
[ Parent ]
Re: I was kinda hoping for some feedbac... (none / 0) (#50)
by driph on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 04:42:45 AM EST

Another thing that really aggravates me with IE5 on the mac is that it loves to draw a line between all frames, even those with border set to 0...grr..

I like the new layout.. been having problems with my domain/computer this week, so I havent been on much to comment at all..:/

--
Vegas isn't a liberal stronghold. It's the place where the rich and powerful gamble away their company's pension fund and strangle call girls in their hotel rooms. - Psycho Dave
[ Parent ]
Re: I was kinda hoping for some feedbac... (none / 0) (#73)
by mattm on Mon Apr 10, 2000 at 04:43:48 AM EST

Personally, I prefer GREAT BIG fonts over sites that stupidly use <font size=1> tags all over the place that make all the text sub-nutrition-label size. Of course, I'd prefer not having any font tags at all, but I'm not thatmuch of an idealist, pbpbpbpbpbt.

I don't know how you're getting all the lists of replies to show up in a single column in lynx (2.8.3dev.9 here), but whatever it is, quit doing it. :)

Now that I think of it, I'd also prefer to have an option to quash .sigs, but then there are lots and lots of other things I'd prefer that aren't necessarily the least bit pertinent.

And before you netscape/msie lovers pick on me for using an 'antique' browser, let me note that I am perfectly able to page back from "Preview" without losing the text I typed, nyaah nyaah nah nyaah nyaah. :)



[ Parent ]
Re: I was kinda hoping for some feedbac... (none / 0) (#75)
by rusty on Mon Apr 10, 2000 at 07:10:05 AM EST

Very soon, you will all be able to choose your own fonts, and sizes, and whatnot. :-)

About lynx in general: I truly value my readers who choose to use lynx, as they tend to be amongst the cooler people on any given site, so I try hard to make this site not only lynx-compatible, but lynx enhanced.

About your problem in particular: In "threaded" mode, all the reply threads should be in nested UL's. When I look at it, though, they do appear to be all in one column. I don't know what's up with that. Does lynx interpret nested UL's properly? Or is my code screwed up? Looking at the source in lynx, I suspect my html is at fault (improperly nested tags or something). I'll try to get that fixed for you.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Okay, I was thinking of posting som... (3.00 / 1) (#8)
by analog on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 07:32:53 PM EST

analog voted 1 on this story.

Okay, I was thinking of posting something like this myself (*sheepish grin*), so I guess I'll vote to post it. Gotta have a little fun in the day.

I'm not sure if I like the new look yet. I do think it makes it a little more reminiscent of, umm, certain other weblogs. Taking away the boxes around things also makes it look a little more cluttered, although I'm on a small screen right now so it could just be that.

hehe. i came, and thought.. "wow, h... (3.00 / 1) (#10)
by bse on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 07:38:25 PM EST

bse voted 1 on this story.

hehe. i came, and thought.. "wow, hmm, something has changed". but i also thought, "wow, hmm, this looks better"
looking good

keep up the great work rusty!

---
"Please sir, tell me why, my life's so pitiful, but the future's so bright? When I look ahead, it burns my retinas." -- Pitchshifter - Please Sir

A good idea for a post. I was thin... (4.30 / 3) (#7)
by tnt on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 07:47:28 PM EST

tnt voted 1 on this story.

A good idea for a post. I was thinking of emailing in with some suggestions. (Note I'm mostly only trying to point out problems, so don't feel bad about the length of the list.)

  1. When voting, you can write a comment. Why is there no preview button like when you normally post comments. (Since I'm writing this as part of my voting for this post, I hope all the HTML is OK, since there is no preview button.)
  2. The placement of the preview and the submit buttons (for posting comments) has a problem (in terms of usability). Having the submit button on the left, instead or the preview button, seems to increase the chance for slips. Meaning, it increases the chance that I'll submit the post when I really wanted to preview it. Just because I'm use to pressing the left button. IMO, the left button should be the least destructive choice. If the buttons were switched, with the preview button on the left, and the submit button on the right, then having someone pressing the left button by habit will be OK... since previewing will not hurt anything.
  3. The color & weight that has been choosen for a visited link in a message does not contrast enough with the normal text. An unvisited link is OK however; the light blue makes it visually distinct from the rest of the text (even though the weight is the same) and you can clearly recognize it as a link. However for the visited links, the weight is the same as the normal text and the color doesn't give enough contrast, so it is very difficult (impossible on some monitors) to be able to recognize them as links.
  4. Try adding somemore space between lines of text. It will make it easier to read.
  5. Also, if you want another trick to make things easier to read. Make it so the text isn't black, but a dark gray.
  6. The ratiing system for posts does not give me any info on what score is better. Is a 1 the best score... saying, this post is #1? Or is a 5 the best score... saying, this post got 5 out of 5?

On the good side though...

  • I like the Hotlist feature. Very useful.
  • And the larger fonts are good too. Most people seem to be getting larger monitors, so things seem OK.
Good Job!

--
     Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc.
__________________________________________________
  Kuro5hin user #279

agree. plus... (none / 0) (#12)
by mattdm on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 08:49:05 PM EST

Agree on all points. Another that I just noticed right now: why is there a Rate button/dropdown for the article I'm replying to on the reply-to screen?

Also <GRIPE mode=constantly> I'm still pretty sure that not posting moderation comments with the story should be at least the default option.... </GRIPE>



[ Parent ]
Re: A good idea for a post. I was thin... (none / 0) (#23)
by evro on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 09:22:56 PM EST

I think links should be bolded to make them stand out.	That is my wonderful
suggestion, thank you and goodnight.

here is my contribution to the scoop source:


<style type=text/css>
<!--
a {text-decoration: none; font-weight: bold}
-->
</style>

This code is GPL and has no warranty. 

/me laughs maniacally at this funny joke.

---
"Asking me who to follow -- don't ask me, I don't know!"
[ Parent ]
Re: A good idea for a post. I was thin... (none / 0) (#64)
by evro on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 04:47:35 PM EST

This seems to have been added, whoo hoo!  Links look so much better!  Way to
listen to suggestions!

---
"Asking me who to follow -- don't ask me, I don't know!"
[ Parent ]
Re: A good idea for a post. I was thin... (none / 0) (#70)
by rusty on Sat Apr 08, 2000 at 07:38:06 AM EST

I actually made links bold by default (using your code :-)), then added a second CSS class for links that are not bold. So "system" links won't be bold, but "user" links will. I think I'm finally happy with how the links look now.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Re: A good idea for a post. I was thin... (none / 0) (#25)
by tnt on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 09:26:15 PM EST

As a solution to fixing one of the problemd I mention...
6.The ratiing system for posts does not give me any info on what score is better. Is a 1 the best score... saying, this post is #1? Or is a 5 the best score... saying, this post got 5 out of 5?
You might want to use labels also. Such as...
5. 'Teriffic' or 'Excellent' or 'Well Said'
4. 'Good'
3. 'OK' or 'Satisfactory'
2. 'Not So Good' or 'You pushing it'
1. 'Terrible' or 'Booo' or 'You should be moderated'

I'm assuming that's the proper way the numbering goes. I'm still not sure actually!

--
     Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc.
__________________________________________________
  Kuro5hin user #279

[ Parent ]

Re: A good idea for a post. I was thin... (none / 0) (#36)
by tnt on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 11:28:46 PM EST

Acutally, maybe that's the wrong way to do it. maybe it should be something like...
5. 'Everyone Should Read This' or 'This Stuff Is So Good, People Should Pay To Read It' 4. 'Teriffic' or 'Excellent' or 'Well Said' 3. 'Really Good Point' 2. 'Good Point' 1. 'I like what you said' 0. 'OK' or 'Satisfactory' or 'I Don't Care' -1. 'I Don't Think That Was Appropriate' -2. 'I Really Don't Think That Was Appropriate' -3. 'You're Pushing It' -4. 'That Was Horrible' or 'What's Wrong With You, Why Would You Even Post That' -5. 'Terrible' or 'Booo' or 'You should be moderated'

Or something like that. (Note, I'm not saying any of these labels should be used. I'm just trying to attribute meaning to the numbers.) Also, that large of a scale may not be necessary or desired.

--
     Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc.
__________________________________________________
  Kuro5hin user #279

[ Parent ]

Re: A good idea for a post. I was thin... (none / 0) (#37)
by tnt on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 11:32:59 PM EST

:-(

I just made the slip I was talking about. (Hiting post when I wanted to preview.) Anyways, here is the last post again, formatted so you can read it.

Acutally, maybe that's the wrong way to do it. maybe it should be something like...

5. 'Everyone Should Read This' or 'This Stuff Is So Good, People Should Pay To Read It'
4. 'Teriffic' or 'Excellent' or 'Well Said'
3. 'Really Good Point'
2. 'Good Point'
1. 'I like what you said'
0. 'OK' or 'Satisfactory' or 'I Don't Care'
-1. 'I Don't Think That Was Appropriate'
-2. 'I Really Don't Think That Was Appropriate'
-3. 'You're Pushing It'
-4. 'That Was Horrible' or 'What's Wrong With You, Why Would You Even Post That'
-5. 'Terrible' or 'Booo' or 'You should be moderated'

Or something like that. (Note, I'm not saying any of these labels should be used. I'm just trying to attribute meaning to the numbers.) Also, that large of a scale may not be necessary or desired.

--
     Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc.
__________________________________________________
  Kuro5hin user #279

[ Parent ]

Re: A good idea for a post. I was thin... (none / 0) (#38)
by rusty on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 12:07:55 AM EST

Originally, the rating scale was 1-10. People thought that was too many choices, and I agreed, so I cut it down to 1-5. BTW, the faq has an explanation of ratings, and what they mean. RTFM :-)

About your other points (from the original post):

  1. Story mod comment preview: Yes, there should be preview and stuff. Originally, the story mod comments were supposed to be kind of "comments lite," hence none of the nice feature of normal comments. I'm thinking now that that was a Bad Idea, and that story moderation will behave a lot more like the regular stories-- i.e. it'll use the same comment interface, and allow normal discussion once you've voted. There may even be a "rejects" section for discussion of stories that got rejected. I know that seems kind of counter-productive, but I imagine that it could be used for editorial suggestions-- like "I'd add x y and z to this and resubmit it..." etc.
  2. Post/Preview buttons: Not hard to change. I wasn't aware that the left button should be least destructive, but if you say so. :-)
  3. Link/Vlink colors: I've been trying to find a combination of link and vlink colors that works forever. Here's my suggestion-- download a page, fool with the link and vlink values in the <BODY> tag until you find ones that look good, and are distinctive from each other and the normal text, then email me! :-)
  4. Space between text lines: hmm. stylesheets? I'll see what I can do.
  5. Text color: Made it #222222. Better?
  6. See above.
Thanks for all your suggestions. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Re: A good idea for a post. I was thin... (none / 0) (#42)
by tnt on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 01:13:08 AM EST

In reference to what you wrote Rusty,....
2.Post/Preview buttons: Not hard to change. I wasn't aware that the left button should be least destructive, but if you say so. :-)
Its not that the least destructive choice should be the left button. Its just that the button that people area most likely to click (without thinking) should be the least destructive. And for people who read from left to right, it tends to be the left button. (I'm not sure what study came up with this, I just remember one of my professors mentioning it. And I've noticed doing it.)

It's similar to when message boxes pop up on the screen and many users just quickly hit the enter button (without really thinking). The button that was high lighted (by default) better have been the least destructive choice (for the users sake).

3.Link/Vlink colors: I've been trying to find a combination of link and vlink colors that works forever. Here's my suggestion-- download a page, fool with the link and vlink values in the <BODY> tag until you find ones that look good, and are distinctive from each other and the normal text, then email me! :-)
How about instead of simply making the color of the vlink darker, have the saturation change. For instance, try #6b93a5 for the vlink. Its a less saturated version of your link color.

5.Text color: Made it #222222. Better?
:-) Yes. I know this one probably will never be noticed by the majority of people. But for computer monitors, lowering the contrast between black and white makes it easier on the eyes, and actually lets you read a bit faster.

6.... RTFM :-)
:-) You're correct, I could have gone to the FAQ. But IMO, an online help system (like FAQs, and user manuals) should not be you primary help system. The application or webpage should be your primary help system. This type of idea is what sprung 'tool tips'. You get help where you need it. I think this applies to the rating system as well. While I'm using (or trying to use) the rating system, the help I need should be right there. (And one possibility for add that help 'there' is by adding labels to the numbers.)

--
     Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc.
__________________________________________________
  Kuro5hin user #279

[ Parent ]
Re: A good idea for a post. I was thin... (none / 0) (#51)
by driph on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 06:06:02 AM EST

Its not that the least destructive choice should be the left button. Its just that the button that people area most likely to click (without thinking) should be the least destructive. And for people who read from left to right, it tends to be the left button. (I'm not sure what study came up with this, I just remember one of my professors mentioning it. And I've noticed doing it.)

Agreed. Typically you will see the Submit button on forms to the lower right of the fields. When there is a second button(reset, clear, etc..) it is usually placed to the left of the submit button. Although if the change is made here, it'll be kind of fun reading all the half finished posts as the current users get used to the new positioning. :]

3.Link/Vlink colors: I've been trying to find a combination of link and vlink colors that works forever. How about instead of simply making the color of the vlink darker, have the saturation change. For instance, try #6b93a5 for the vlink. Its a less saturated version of your link color.

Well, standard usability guidelines insist that you stay with the blue/red combination for hyperlinks and visited links. However, thats a rule I break religiously, choosing rather to do exactly as you've just mentioned. I personally find it to be a workable alternative, and fairly obvious to the user.

Rusty, while we are making suggestions, what do you think of widening the comment box?

--
Vegas isn't a liberal stronghold. It's the place where the rich and powerful gamble away their company's pension fund and strangle call girls in their hotel rooms. - Psycho Dave
[ Parent ]
Re: A good idea for a post. I was thin... (none / 0) (#52)
by rusty on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 07:58:35 AM EST

Again with the comment box! I've already widened it and lengthened it. The size it is now just fits for me when I narrow my browser window to 770ish wide, which is the narrowest I make an effort to keep the site looking ok. Any wider and it'd put a serious squeeze on the box column. Frankly, as a text editor, this box sucks anyway. I recommend you get yourself a good text editor and copy 'n paste, if you need more features. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Re:Well, maybe SimpleText.. (none / 0) (#65)
by driph on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 11:32:28 PM EST

You mean I have to install an X windowing system and run nedit on my mac to post in comfort? Wonder if I still have that old copy of eXodus floating around.. :]

Interesting, on my display the text input box is about 40 columns wide, meaning I can have my browser window squeezed to about 300x300 and fit the thing in there fine..

Ah ha! Clever moving of the preview/post buttons.. Well done, now if we screw up and click the wrong button, we deserved it.

--
Vegas isn't a liberal stronghold. It's the place where the rich and powerful gamble away their company's pension fund and strangle call girls in their hotel rooms. - Psycho Dave
[ Parent ]
Re:Well, maybe SimpleText.. (none / 0) (#66)
by rusty on Sat Apr 08, 2000 at 12:27:19 AM EST

Hmm. It looks a lot better on my screen.

Wait a minute, how can I have a link to that screenshot, which is a shot of me writing the link to that screenshot?

And how can this comment be about this comment being in the screenshot? Ahhh!

recursion: see "recursion"

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Re:Well, maybe SimpleText.. (none / 0) (#67)
by driph on Sat Apr 08, 2000 at 03:38:39 AM EST

Hah! I was thinking the same thing when I took the screenshot for my comment.
Wait a second. How is it that I have your comment in my screenshot, even though your comment is a reply to my comment, referring to the screenshot that has your comment?

--
Vegas isn't a liberal stronghold. It's the place where the rich and powerful gamble away their company's pension fund and strangle call girls in their hotel rooms. - Psycho Dave
[ Parent ]
Re:Well, maybe SimpleText.. (none / 0) (#68)
by Paul Dunne on Sat Apr 08, 2000 at 04:45:20 AM EST

> You mean I have to install an X windowing system and run nedit on my
> mac to post in comfort?

Macs aren't supposed to be comfortable, are they? I thought that was the whole idea; a sort of B&D OS.

If you use lynx, you can hit ^Ve in the textbox to launch vi^H^H your favourite editor.

You can cut and paste with a Linux text terminal in several ways: screen can do it. Or you can use what's-its-name, used to be called selection, gpm it is now I think. You'd have to, ick!, use the mouse in that case though.

[voice off-screen: excuse me, this is irrelevant, isn't it?
Yes, well, I didn't realise he was talking about the Mac until I'd written most of it.]
http://dunne.home.dhs.org/
[ Parent ]

Re:Well, maybe eXodus (none / 0) (#69)
by driph on Sat Apr 08, 2000 at 06:12:41 AM EST

Heheh... eXodus was my first introduction to X windows, actually... back in my ISP days I think we ran that off of a quadra, to jump into the Sun box... I remember it(eXodus) used to crash like hell, was great fun. :]

btw, tset -e



--
Vegas isn't a liberal stronghold. It's the place where the rich and powerful gamble away their company's pension fund and strangle call girls in their hotel rooms. - Psycho Dave
[ Parent ]
Re: A good idea for a post. I was thin... (none / 0) (#46)
by Paul Dunne on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 02:11:53 AM EST

Not sure it matters which comes first, Post or Preview; but they would be better off further apart. Maybe the "post format" combo box could go between then? Like:
Preview [HTML Formatted] Post
I'm sure this would save me, for one, from further "3 for the price of 1!" posts.
http://dunne.home.dhs.org/
[ Parent ]
Re: A good idea for a post. I was thin... (none / 0) (#48)
by tnt on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 02:30:24 AM EST

That sounds like a good solution too. If they are not grouped together (like on Apple dialog boxes), then it should help reduce slips.

--
     Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc.
__________________________________________________
  Kuro5hin user #279

[ Parent ]
Re: A good idea for a post. I was thin... (none / 0) (#54)
by rusty on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 08:11:03 AM EST

Moved the buttons around, as you suggested. I think you were right, this seems much safer.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Group activities, just like summer ... (1.00 / 2) (#2)
by techt on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 07:54:12 PM EST

techt voted 1 on this story.

Group activities, just like summer camp! I like. :)
--
Proud member of the Electronic Frontier Foundation!
Are You? http://www.eff.org/support/joineff.html

hehe, humor, I like this. ... (2.00 / 1) (#4)
by bmetzler on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 08:13:03 PM EST

bmetzler voted 1 on this story.

hehe, humor, I like this.

Oh, and great job Rusty.
www.bmetzler.org - it's not just a personal weblog, it's so much more.

I've actually been thinking about w... (3.50 / 2) (#6)
by neonman on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 08:13:04 PM EST

neonman voted 1 on this story.

I've actually been thinking about weblog theming for a while. In my weblog backend, I want to eventually add support for theming on the fly. Being that all pages would be dynamically generated anyway, adding support for user selectable themes wouldn't be very hard.
_________________________
Aaron Grogan
aaron@stufflikethat.org
http://stufflikethat.org/

Weblog Theming (4.00 / 2) (#11)
by tnt on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 08:34:07 PM EST

:-) I've been thinking about this too. Theming & Skining actually.

A weblog is required for a website I am developing. And right now I'm leaning towards Scoop. So there should be a version Scoop with theming & skinning support in the future.

--
     Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc.
__________________________________________________
  Kuro5hin user #279

[ Parent ]

Re: Weblog Theming (none / 0) (#13)
by rusty on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 08:52:49 PM EST

Excellent. Hacking assistance is always welcome. Get in touch with me for guidance and the latest code if you want to work on theming stuff. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Re: Weblog Theming (3.50 / 2) (#14)
by neonman on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 08:54:53 PM EST

I should look through scoop to get an idea how pages are currently being generated.
_________________________
Aaron Grogan
aaron@stufflikethat.org
http://stufflikethat.org/
[ Parent ]
Re: Weblog Theming (none / 0) (#21)
by tnt on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 09:16:13 PM EST

I actually already did today. I sent an email to you about the link to the tarball on scoop.kuro5hin.org being broken. (Thanks for fixing it BTW.)

Right now though, I just getting into final exams, so it should be a couple weeks before I get into coding. (Maybe a bit longer if I take a bit of a vacation.)

Anyways, I'm sure I'll have some questions once I start reading the code over.

--
     Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc.
__________________________________________________
  Kuro5hin user #279

[ Parent ]

Re: Weblog Theming (none / 0) (#22)
by rusty on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 09:20:02 PM EST

Hey, thanks for noticing the link was broken. What happened was, k5 is now handled by a real mod_perl handler, instead of the old way (index.pl run by Apache::Registry), so when you asked for the scoop tarball, it just served up the main page instead.

Anyway, the code in the latest tarball is somewhat out of date. Which is why I said if you want to hack on it, get in touch with me. I'm trying to organize a more coherent release process, which may be in place by the time you get a chance to work on it. Anyone who wants to host a scoop.kuro5hin.org support site, and manage builds and releases, please contact me! I discovered that that part of development is a huge PITA, and something I only have time to do once in a while. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Re: Weblog Theming (none / 0) (#47)
by Paul Dunne on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 02:14:59 AM EST

Hey, Rusty! You forgot to say, for every time someone asks you about an updated tarball, you'll put the release date back 24 hours ;-)
http://dunne.home.dhs.org/
[ Parent ]
Re: Weblog Theming (none / 0) (#53)
by rusty on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 08:07:38 AM EST

No, no, you've got me confused with someone else. I'm actually embarrassed by the code being old. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Re: Weblog Theming (none / 0) (#55)
by bmetzler on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 09:19:28 AM EST

Anyone who wants to host a scoop.kuro5hin.org support site, and manage builds and releases, please contact me!

Rusty, I sent you an e-mail about this a few days ago which I guess must have hit the bit bucket. :) Anyways, I have all the resources needed to host the development site. I'm just waiting for your OK. E-mail me at bmetzler@linuxfast.org.

Thanks,
Brent
www.bmetzler.org - it's not just a personal weblog, it's so much more.
[ Parent ]
Re: Weblog Theming (none / 0) (#57)
by rusty on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 09:40:07 AM EST

D'oh. Once again, I must invoke my Constitutionally Guaranteed Fifth Amendment Right to Suck. :-)

I sent you an email about what we need to do. So pretty soon, you too shall have your name blazing forth in the FAQ.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

It's nice to get a fresh look.... ... (2.00 / 1) (#3)
by joeyo on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 08:21:19 PM EST

joeyo voted 1 on this story.

It's nice to get a fresh look....

In keeping with the theme though, shouldn't the grey "box" around this moderation comment textbox (which I am typing in right now) have a border like all the rest of the light grey boxes....

--
"Give me enough variables to work with, and I can probably do away with the notion of human free will." -- demi

Some screenshots (4.00 / 1) (#19)
by rusty on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 09:13:31 PM EST

Ok, it might be an interesting commentary on our readership that the very first screenshot I got was K5 on Netscape 4.7 for TRU64 Unix, running on Alpha-linux, from pulsar. Take the last train to Nerdville, and we'll meet you at the station. :-)

I also grabbed shots of all the browsers I have easy access to:



____
Not the real rusty
Interesting... (none / 0) (#32)
by evro on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 10:40:28 PM EST

You seem to have made your windows look like zee MacOS... Zees seems to
indicate subconcious desire to rrrun zee MacOS, despite your Linux
evangelization.... verrrry interesting...

---
"Asking me who to follow -- don't ask me, I don't know!"
[ Parent ]
Re: Interesting... (none / 0) (#34)
by rusty on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 10:54:51 PM EST

It's eMac for E0.16. Yes, I admit it, I love the mac interface. But does this indicate a desire to use that broke-ass OS that comes with the lovely hardware that apple sells? HELL NO! :-) I use to work with mac-weenies (*grin*), and the sound of their machines rebooting was a constant background noise. For god's sake, those things crashed more that the win-boxen. Maybe OS X is better than 8.x, now that it's basically BSD. ;-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Re: Interesting... (none / 0) (#44)
by Inoshiro on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 01:41:01 AM EST

I think you want to switch to icewm.. And if you want nice UI with it, use LiQuId theme. There are other cool themes for it. It's also Gnome compliant, and way faster than E (which is bloated, slow, and unstable).

--
[ イノシロ ]
[ Parent ]
Re: Interesting... (none / 0) (#45)
by rusty on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 02:02:05 AM EST

For god's sake, I'm sitting here in front of a dual P3 450 with 128M RAM. What do I care if E is bloated and slow? :-) Anf BTW, I just switched to Aqua E & GTK themes. I like it.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Re: Interesting... (none / 0) (#71)
by Inoshiro on Sat Apr 08, 2000 at 01:29:37 PM EST

Grrrr.. But do you have a 19" monitor? Ha! (Admittedly, it's fixed-frequency composite monitor, but it connects to a nice HP300 diskless workstation that will boot Linux in under a few minutes).

--
[ イノシロ ]
[ Parent ]
Re: Some screenshots (none / 0) (#35)
by pulsar on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 11:08:35 PM EST

Ok, it might be an interesting commentary on our readership that the very first screenshot I got was K5 on Netscape 4.7 for TRU64 Unix, running on Alpha-linux, from pulsar. Take the last train to Nerdville, and we'll meet you at the station. :-)

lol. I may be a nerd, but I'll at least point out that Netscape on an Alpha kicks some serious ass! It is hands down the fastest platform I've ever seen.

For those of you wonding why I'm running the Tru64 version of Netscape, it's simply becuase Communicatior/Navigator is not 64-bit clean! :( They made the Tru64 version using a special linker flag at compile time that forces the code to use the lower 31-bit address space...

[ Parent ]
another screenshot (none / 0) (#39)
by rusty on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 12:19:09 AM EST

Whoah. From the dep't of Ugly dep't:

Gzilla 0.2.1-2 on an Alpha Linux system, again courtesy of pulsar.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Re: another screenshot (none / 0) (#43)
by evro on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 01:19:07 AM EST

whoa... what is that, the "text/jpeg lister" browser? Or was that the open source browser before mozilla came around?
---
"Asking me who to follow -- don't ask me, I don't know!"
[ Parent ]
Re: another screenshot (none / 0) (#56)
by bmetzler on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 09:27:28 AM EST

Or was that the open source browser before mozilla came around?

Nope, it's a GPL'ed browser based on GTK that came around, I think after Mozilla. However, it's extremely early in development. You can check it out at the homepage.

-Brent
www.bmetzler.org - it's not just a personal weblog, it's so much more.
[ Parent ]
More Usability Comments (3.00 / 1) (#26)
by tnt on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 09:44:49 PM EST

I have another comment on usability to add to my list.

When people click on an article (from the main page) there are two main things that they want to do. The first is read the rest of the article. (That one is easy, its right in front of you.) The second one is that they want to post a reply to the article. That's the one with a usuability problem, IMO.

I doesn't standout. I think placing it at the end of the article is a good idea. (You'll probably want to read the article before posting.) But when I look at what's at the end of article, all I see is a whole sh|+ load of text, links, and widgets. Not to say that I wasn't able to figure it out. But I think that the user interface could be improved. Could be made cleaner. Could make the button or link, you need to press to post a reply, stand out more. (I'm guessing that maybe Slashdot having an interface similar to that may have influenced your choosing it. But their user interface for posting is poor also.)



--
     Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc.
__________________________________________________
  Kuro5hin user #279

Re: Kuro5hin, now you can read it from across the (2.00 / 1) (#29)
by JonJon on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 10:27:04 PM EST

Personally, I preferred the previous look (title bars were esp. cool :) I'm looking at it in 1600x1200 w/ IE5 (I know, I know...) - fonts were always fine for me.

This is a good thing (2.00 / 1) (#30)
by xah on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 10:37:07 PM EST

YES! This is so much better. I'm getting old now, and I could formerly barely see the tiny little letters on my LCD. Thank you again, Rusty.

Yet Another Usability Comment (4.00 / 1) (#31)
by tnt on Thu Apr 06, 2000 at 10:39:12 PM EST

This comment is about moderating submission.

The first time I moderated an article... after finishing moderating actually, I was left with a screen where I could see what everyone else voted and wrote (if they did write). But I was left wondering how I would continue moderating. I eventually figured out to click on the 'Moderate Submissions' link on the side, but what I spent my time looking for (after moderating that first article) was a 'moderate more' button. Or something like that.

When I go to moderate one submission, I almost always want to moderate all of them. I think adding a 'moderate more' button might make the user interface easier to use.

--
     Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc.
__________________________________________________
  Kuro5hin user #279

Usability Comment about Searching (none / 0) (#60)
by tnt on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 01:51:41 PM EST

I'll add any more usability comments I have to this thread, instead of starting a new one everytime.

This comment is about the searching.

When you search for something, and there are alot of results, you get a button to push that says something like 'Next Page >>'. The problem is that the button is only located at the to of the page. Usually, when I am searching for something, I look at all the results that came up. That will mean that I am then at the bottom of the page (instead of at the top). Having a second 'Next Page >>' button at the bottom of the page (after the search results), would improve the usability.

(Oh, and I like it alot: that the preview button is by itself on the left, and the post is by itself on the right :-) )

--
     Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc.
__________________________________________________
  Kuro5hin user #279

[ Parent ]

Re: Usability Comment about Searching (none / 0) (#63)
by rusty on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 04:06:09 PM EST

Search buttons-- you're right. There's two sets now. Enjoy. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Re: Kuro5hin, now you can read it from across the (4.00 / 1) (#40)
by johnmeacham on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 12:49:51 AM EST

first of all yay to the big titles! that was my largest gripe when i first came here, it was very difficult to scan the old layout for titles. i definatly like the new one better...

For a completly random suggestion, I always thought it would be very cool if there was some way of promoting a discussion thread to a top level story, like if a message is rated > 4.5 then you have the option to promote it to the incoming story bin (where it can be voted on as a top level story), these promoted threads should be somehow distinct visually from normal top level storys and would pull in all the comments replying to it automatically... oftentimes very valuable but tangential discussion is lost under storys that scroll off the main page and this would help maintain the 'community' feel of k5 and help promote discussion rather than hit-and-run posting within the short time the story is on the main page..

another related but rough idea would be to have a permanant 'k5box' which had links to the busiest threads of conversation for some heuristic definition of 'busiest'....

Re: Kuro5hin, now you can read it from across the (3.00 / 1) (#41)
by henrik on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 01:05:03 AM EST

I acctually perfered the old look - but i always hate new stuff. Don't worry, i'll get used to to it. :) Also, like JonJon i'm on a 1600x1200 monitor with truetype fonts - i get the feeling that the fonts are smaller if you're using the default fonts in X and thus i get stuck with huge fonts :) Well.. it's not that bad..

And one bit of suggestion - how does it look w/o the blackish border around the comment headings?

-henrik 

Akademiska Intresseklubben antecknar!

Feature: Scoop Remember What We Read (3.00 / 1) (#49)
by tnt on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 02:53:37 AM EST

He's an idea for a new feature....

It would be nice if Scoop could remember what we have read. As more and more people post, it gets hard to tell what I have and haven't read. Especially when I change computers. The new computer doesn't have the record of what links I visited on the other computer. Also, with the sorting based on 'rank', that causes posts to change order. Which makes it even harder to see what has and hasn't been read.

Having a feature commonly found in forum software might be helpful. Maybe having some kind of icon next to each post indicating if the post has been read or not. Or maybe encoding that information with color. Maybe setting the color of 'something' based on whether that thread was read or not.

(I know this is a bit off topic -- giving critisisms and praise -- but it seemed like a good place to talk about it.)

--
     Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc.
__________________________________________________
  Kuro5hin user #279

Feature: For Hotlist (none / 0) (#61)
by tnt on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 02:03:17 PM EST

This is related to the feature I mentioned before. But is for the Hotlist. It would be nice if the Hotlist could use an icon or a color encoding (like I mentioned in the previous post) to show when a new post has been added to one of the articles in my Hotlist.

Now, yes I know I can memorize all the numbers for all the articles I have in my Hotlist. But what if I forget. It would be nice if the Hotlist had that information within it. It would make the Hotlist even more useful.

--
     Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc.
__________________________________________________
  Kuro5hin user #279

[ Parent ]

Suggeted Way To Implement The Previous Feature (none / 0) (#62)
by tnt on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 02:17:04 PM EST

I've got a suggestion for how to implement the previous feature.

You could do it by encoding the information (of whether the article has a new post or not) in the 'bullets' of the unordered-list. Maybe using a image for the 'bullets' instead. (Having one 'bullet' for articles with no new posts, and another 'bullet' for articles with new posts.) I sure you can change the 'bullets' using Style Sheets also, but it may be and all-or-nothing type thing. (You can change all of them to something, but not indiviual ones within a list.)

--
     Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc.
__________________________________________________
  Kuro5hin user #279

[ Parent ]

Some Comments and Stuff (3.00 / 1) (#58)
by hattig on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 12:21:21 PM EST

That is looking good, Rusty. Shame about that big blue bar at the top of the screen now - IE is obviously having a problem here.

I suggested a user themable weblog a couple of months ago, when I first started reading Kuro5hin. This would be a nice addition IMO - so that I too can have purple,green, blue and yellow pages (just like my My Yahoo pages) and be sick.

The grey text is really readable, more so than black. And it looks less cluttered in some ways, and more cluttered in others, but the white space really helps. I am glad that story titles are now left aligned, it seems more sensible.

One thing: On the comments pages, there is a huge white gap on the right hand side after you get past the 'related links' boxes. Would it be possible to eradicate this?

Shame I missed the huge fonts :-( and why does it say "Replying To:" when I am not replying at all?

Popular story too, one of the most popular yet?

Fixing The Big Blue Bar (4.00 / 1) (#59)
by tnt on Fri Apr 07, 2000 at 01:09:51 PM EST

This is from tnt's web hacking guide.  When you origninally have source for the
BBB of...

<TR BGCOLOR="#006699">
<TD ALIGN="right" VALIGN="top" COLSPAN=2>
<FONT FACE="verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif" SIZE=2
COLOR="#333333">
<A HREF="/?op=submitstory"><FONT COLOR="#FFFFFF">submit
story</FONT></A> <FONT COLOR="#FFFFFF">|</FONT>
<A HREF="/?op=newuser"><FONT COLOR="#FFFFFF">create
account</FONT></A> <FONT COLOR="#FFFFFF">|</FONT>
<A HREF="/?op=special;page=faq"><FONT
COLOR="#FFFFFF">faq</FONT></A> <FONT
COLOR="#FFFFFF">|</FONT>
<A HREF="/?op=special;page=mission"><FONT
COLOR="#FFFFFF">mission</FONT></A> <FONT
COLOR="#FFFFFF">|</FONT>
<A HREF="/?op=special;page=links"><FONT
COLOR="#FFFFFF">links</FONT></A> <FONT
COLOR="#FFFFFF">|</FONT>
<A HREF="/?op=search"><FONT
COLOR="#FFFFFF">search</FONT></A> <FONT
COLOR="#FFFFFF">|</FONT>
<A HREF="/?op=special;page=voting"><FONT
COLOR="#FFFFFF"><B>YOU</B> choose the
stories!</FONT></A>
</FONT>
<P>
</TD>
</TR>


To fix, just remove the <P>, to get...

<TR BGCOLOR="#006699">
<TD ALIGN="right" VALIGN="top" COLSPAN=2>
<FONT FACE="verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif" SIZE=2
COLOR="#333333">
<A HREF="/?op=submitstory"><FONT COLOR="#FFFFFF">submit
story</FONT></A> <FONT COLOR="#FFFFFF">|</FONT>
<A HREF="/?op=newuser"><FONT COLOR="#FFFFFF">create
account</FONT></A> <FONT COLOR="#FFFFFF">|</FONT>
<A HREF="/?op=special;page=faq"><FONT
COLOR="#FFFFFF">faq</FONT></A> <FONT
COLOR="#FFFFFF">|</FONT>
<A HREF="/?op=special;page=mission"><FONT
COLOR="#FFFFFF">mission</FONT></A> <FONT
COLOR="#FFFFFF">|</FONT>
<A HREF="/?op=special;page=links"><FONT
COLOR="#FFFFFF">links</FONT></A> <FONT
COLOR="#FFFFFF">|</FONT>
<A HREF="/?op=search"><FONT
COLOR="#FFFFFF">search</FONT></A> <FONT
COLOR="#FFFFFF">|</FONT>
<A HREF="/?op=special;page=voting"><FONT
COLOR="#FFFFFF"><B>YOU</B> choose the
stories!</FONT></A>
</FONT>

</TD>
</TR>


And it looks good in both Netscape and IE.  (At least on the NT machine I'm
using right now.)


--
     Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc.
__________________________________________________
  Kuro5hin user #279

I actually borrowed some "look and feel" from Kuro (none / 0) (#72)
by grappler on Sun Apr 09, 2000 at 10:13:36 PM EST

Well, they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, so I thought I'd mention this. I run a website for my Ultimate frisbee team, and I really liked the look of Kuro5hin, so I took ideas from it when I made my site. Here's the address of the site: http://www.mines.edu/Stu_life/organ/ufo/main/ What do y'all think? Any suggestions?

grappler

Some people cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.
Re: I actually borrowed some "look and feel" from (none / 0) (#74)
by rusty on Mon Apr 10, 2000 at 06:57:39 AM EST

Woo hoo! I've been ripped off! :-) Although, to be perfectly honest, a glance at linux.com might reveal some, err, "inspiration" for parts of this site too. :-)

Since you asked for suggestions... I prefer the #006699 green-blue to the #000099 royal blue in the title tabs, but I don't know how that would look on a black background. And, in general, I also prefer white page backgrounds, personally. It's tough to pull off a black page background and make it look really good.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Kuro5hin, now you can read it from across the room | 73 comments (73 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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