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[P]
Metallica fingers 335,435 Napster users

By evro in News
Tue May 02, 2000 at 10:04:59 AM EST
Tags: Music (all tags)
Music

This past weekend, online consulting firm NetPD, under contract from Metallica, identified over 300,000 Napster users, and will ask Napster to block those users from its service. Napster has said it will block users identified as copyright violators.


Okay, okay, I know we are all sick of this line of stories -- I'm even sick of them at this point -- but I am submitting this story along with an idea that's been discussed somewhat before.

Along the lines of the other DeCSS, I propose we (ie, somebody) make an MP3 of themselves performing something that's not copyrighted -- reading the bill of rights, for example; or perhaps we could just use this song -- and naming the file "Metallica - Master Of Puppets.mp3." Loop the file and/or cut it down so that it's the same length as the real Metallica song and has about the same filesize. Then put it in your shared Napster folder.

The "logic" behind this is that this consulting firm just did a search on Napster for "Metallica" or "Enter Sandman" or whatever and wrote down all the names that came up (I still find their >300,000 names quite a stretch; Napster [or at least Macster] only returns 100 names at a time, so I don't see how they could have gotten that many, especially when there are repeats with each search).

I would love to be the one to make this MP3 for everyone, but my computer's mic is exceptionally crummy. Is anybody up to doing this? Does this seem like a good idea? If not, vote it down, I won't take it personally.

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Related Links
o identified over 300,000 Napster users
o has said
o the other DeCSS
o this song
o Also by evro


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Metallica fingers 335,435 Napster users | 32 comments (32 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Argh. I can't take any more. Please... (4.50 / 2) (#1)
by rusty on Tue May 02, 2000 at 01:44:56 AM EST

rusty voted -1 on this story.

Argh. I can't take any more. Please no more MP3 stories for, like, maybe a week? I don't even use Napster. This is getting ridiculous. No offense Evro, seriously. I'm just tired of them already. I urge you all to get out there and find stuff that we *aren't* already talking about in like 6 or 7 threads!

____
Not the real rusty

Re: Argh. I can't take any more. Please... (none / 0) (#18)
by evro on Tue May 02, 2000 at 11:46:10 AM EST

hrm... I didn't really think this would get posted.
---
"Asking me who to follow -- don't ask me, I don't know!"
[ Parent ]
Solution: click on the hotlist link (none / 0) (#21)
by Notromda on Tue May 02, 2000 at 01:07:56 PM EST

Solution: click on the hotlist link

Then don't submit anymore napster/mp3 stories!

[ Parent ]

Ugh. We need constant-story-thread... (3.00 / 1) (#7)
by fluffy grue on Tue May 02, 2000 at 03:33:48 AM EST

fluffy grue voted -1 on this story.

Ugh. We need constant-story-threads (with submitted updates) or something for crap like the current MP3 debacle and MSFT goings-on. I'm getting sick of this.
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]

Hmm.. creating digital noise to ann... (none / 0) (#3)
by Inoshiro on Tue May 02, 2000 at 04:50:20 AM EST

Inoshiro voted 1 on this story.

Hmm.. creating digital noise to annoy Metalica? Sounds like one of the tactics suck talked about WRT making Napster useless..

Of course, this sounds like a fun culture jamming activity if we can organize this effectively.



--
[ イノシロ ]
This is great. Fuck those sell-out... (none / 0) (#10)
by buzzbomb on Tue May 02, 2000 at 05:00:45 AM EST

buzzbomb voted 1 on this story.

This is great. Fuck those sell-outs. At least I have the classics to enjoy...if their latest ploys don't give the old albums an even worse tainting than their new "music" already has.

Obsfucation is cool :) (did I spell... (none / 0) (#6)
by kraant on Tue May 02, 2000 at 05:25:19 AM EST

kraant voted 1 on this story.

Obsfucation is cool :) (did I spell that right?) Stengraphy is based on it
--
"kraant, open source guru" -- tumeric
Never In Our Names...

Nice idea. Just like the second (th... (none / 0) (#15)
by ejf on Tue May 02, 2000 at 07:02:26 AM EST

ejf voted 1 on this story.

Nice idea. Just like the second (third-tenth) DeCSS dubbed project. Useful, too :-) However, this does not solve the basic problem; most providers will still back down even IF your file is not copyrighted. Itīs safer for them that way. As always, the customer is at loss. Could they possible try you on Trademark Infringement here ? (I have no insight into that, itīs just a question :-)
--- men are reasoning, not reasonable animals.

Looks like Metallica found a way to... (none / 0) (#5)
by Pelorat on Tue May 02, 2000 at 07:48:33 AM EST

Pelorat voted 0 on this story.

Looks like Metallica found a way to reverse the aging process, cos they're acting like spoiled brats. Sounds like a fun monkey-wrench idea, but I'm on a dialup line, and so won't be hosting a large file to thousands of people any time soon =)

we are all sick of this line of sto... (none / 0) (#4)
by xah on Tue May 02, 2000 at 07:55:53 AM EST

xah voted -1 on this story.

we are all sick of this line of stories

Again, I wonder why a community tha... (5.00 / 2) (#11)
by soulhuntre on Tue May 02, 2000 at 07:56:21 AM EST

soulhuntre voted 1 on this story.

Again, I wonder why a community that is using the power of copyright to control their own work (GPL, BSD license and so on) is so dead set on preventing others from the same right. It is simple. Either you believe the person who created a work has the right to control how it is used, or you do not. If you DON'T think they do, then don;t complain when a commercial company puts out proprietary versions of Linux with no source code. If you DO, then you should support these guys. Unless what you really want is a moral reason to steal someone elses work. Ken

Right on! (4.00 / 1) (#19)
by Notromda on Tue May 02, 2000 at 12:51:32 PM EST

<rant mode> Everytime I see a story on mp3 here or on slashdot, all I see are a bunch of hypocrites trying to rationalize in some way or another a behavior that is wrong. The artists have chosen to put their works under a copyright and licensing agreement, and napster and company are largely responsible for violations. 300,000 people? My first response was, "That's all?" Many of the same people that cry foul at every GPL violation listen to mp3's that have been DL'd in violation of licensing and copyright laws. The attempts at rationalization just don't cut it.</rant mode>

I love mp3's ... I have a large collection that I use to listen to while working on my computer. In fact, I listen to mp3's more than CD's. But every mp3 on my HD is ripped directly from a CD that I own.

I think there is a possibility of a new distribution method here, but napster is not it. Major artists should dump the record companies, and just set up websites to DL directly. The artist gets more money that way... CD printers could then license the works and make CD's for those that still want CD's. I really like the idea of getting rid of the hungry middle-man, but it's not our choice to do that. The artists themselves need to make that change. If our community would 1. stop stealing and 2. politely explain to the artists how we would like to purchase their works, then this might actually be accomplished. But as long as the mp3 community keeps acting like spoiled brats, they're not going to listen! Heh, I've seen several posts calling the artists brats. Looks like the pot calling the kettle black to me...

[ Parent ]

Re: Again, I wonder why a community tha... (none / 0) (#30)
by zotz on Wed May 03, 2000 at 08:53:03 AM EST

I posted a better reply yesterday, but it seems to have been lost, so here is a quick version.

At least some people who use the GPL do not believe that a person has the right to control how the software they have created is used.

The law gives them this right however. They then make use of this same law to try and undo most of the results of the law in the first place. They would be quite happy if the law went away - for EVERYBODY.

If you haven't already, you really should read some of RMS's writings over at fsf.org. Try this one first:

http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/why-free.html

You may not agree with him or others who think the same way, but they are not (because of this) the hypocrites that your post seems to imply.

BTW - RMS is not as adamant about other works as he is about code.


zotz forever! ~~~the raggeded~~~

bslug.org
[ Parent ]

Metallica truly suck now.... (none / 0) (#9)
by pwhysall on Tue May 02, 2000 at 07:58:03 AM EST

pwhysall voted 1 on this story.

Metallica truly suck now.
--
Peter
K5 Editors
I'm going to wager that the story keeps getting dumped because it is a steaming pile of badly formatted fool-meme.
CheeseBurgerBrown

I was one of the DeCSS defendants, ... (none / 0) (#16)
by flamingcow on Tue May 02, 2000 at 08:32:05 AM EST

flamingcow voted 1 on this story.

I was one of the DeCSS defendants, and I appreciated the DeCSS confusion efforts on the web alot.

Napster sucks anyway. Gnutella has ... (5.00 / 1) (#8)
by Velian on Tue May 02, 2000 at 08:34:30 AM EST

Velian voted -1 on this story.

Napster sucks anyway. Gnutella has everything I need. I can't find the mp3s I want half the time on Napster anymore. Not near as many people use it.

just a proposal for one's friends, ... (none / 0) (#14)
by thelaw on Tue May 02, 2000 at 09:53:08 AM EST

thelaw voted -1 on this story.

just a proposal for one's friends, not a news board.

It's good that this be discussed bu... (3.50 / 2) (#12)
by The Big D on Tue May 02, 2000 at 09:58:04 AM EST

The Big D voted 1 on this story.

It's good that this be discussed but I am against the concept. The issue here is copyright infringement - and if it was GPL code that was being abused (say, used in some proprietory or at any rate closed source package) we would all be against its distribution. As it is, we're talking about music. The people who copy music they don't own are breaking the law. I was in favour of the DeCSS mirroring - but believe this case to be different. Napster is a medium which can be used to swap files - in principle, it could be used for free music. Those artists who are in support of it can certainly release MP3s for free if they think it will encourage people to buy CDs. This is the group, not its label, that is bringing the case - I think it is reasonable to assume they feel they are being cheated out of both money and their artistic rights.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines

You know, there are a lot of Metall... (none / 0) (#13)
by bladerunner on Tue May 02, 2000 at 10:02:26 AM EST

bladerunner voted 1 on this story.

You know, there are a lot of Metallica fans that are not as tech savy(sp?) as 'we' are.My wife is one of em. She doesn't give a rat's arse about all this Napster stuff. She just likes Metallica. If Metallica quits making music, we've still got their albums from the 80's and their CDs to listen to after their long gone. Just because John Fogerty was suing his exband mates over copyright and ownership issues and refused to play old CCR tunes, doesn't mean I stopped listening to him.
-Ex-slashdotter. I love cats, but hate Katz.

Well you need to be willing to talk... (none / 0) (#2)
by Nyarlathotep on Tue May 02, 2000 at 10:04:59 AM EST

Nyarlathotep voted 1 on this story.

Well you need to be willing to talk Napster/Metallica to small claims court if Napster blocks you as a result of this mp3.
Campus Crusade for Cthulhu -- it found me!

Re: Metallica fingers 335,435 Napster users (3.50 / 4) (#17)
by Anonymous Hero on Tue May 02, 2000 at 10:50:27 AM EST

It's about time somebody started cracking down on the pirates. THis is not a
troll, this is not flamebait. The sooner the 'Open Source' community grows up
and joins the real world, the sooner it will be accepted by the mainstream as
people with something to offer, not thieves. Geeks should seek to integrate
with society. This means following the rules. Otherwise, we will end up
perceived as high-tech Hell's Angels. It's bad enough that I can't call myself
a hacker anymore, because of the script kiddies defacing websites.


Just saw Metallica's PSA regarding the Napster con (1.00 / 1) (#20)
by HiRes on Tue May 02, 2000 at 01:00:10 PM EST

They said, "We stopped kicking ass years ago, but we're still taking names."
--
wcb
wait! before you rate, read.

that song? (none / 0) (#22)
by Notromda on Tue May 02, 2000 at 01:14:27 PM EST

Ugh! I clicked on the ling and netscape started into playing it via mpg123... Leaving the page didn't make it stop! It took waaaaay to long to get a terminal up kill -9 it. Please put some kind of warning before links to sounds that are so hard on the ears! :P

Re: Metallica fingers 335,435 Napster users (3.00 / 2) (#23)
by Anonymous Hero on Tue May 02, 2000 at 02:08:01 PM EST

And boy did it feel good! Hoo, boy, I love being fingered!

Re: Metallica fingers 335,435 Napster users (none / 0) (#24)
by Zarniwoop on Tue May 02, 2000 at 04:18:59 PM EST

Well, there went the last bit of respect I had for Metallica. Sorry, but screw them. Theres not a chance I will ever buy one of their CDs again. It seems like when bands get big enough to be considered an "institution", they loose sight of what it was all about in the first place, unlike a lot of smaller, less-well-known and not ego-tripping bands. They also seem to be more groundbreaking, too, which is always cool.

If you still feel guilty, you could always Pay Lars!

Oh, well. Not loosing much- Their music is getting kinda stale with age.

Re: Metallica fingers 335,435 Napster users (none / 0) (#25)
by Anonymous Hero on Tue May 02, 2000 at 04:35:29 PM EST

looks like i will be spending my day doing loop-back encryption, *sigh*.

Re: Metallica fingers 335,435 Napster users (3.00 / 1) (#26)
by bozak911 on Tue May 02, 2000 at 06:02:20 PM EST

I do not understand the confusion here.

First, let me say this; This will make people angry.

However, I feel that
a) this is not flamebait or a troll
b) People need to learn what copyrights are.

One of the reasons why Metallica might just win this one is that they are right. They spend a lot of their time and their energy to create a product, license it, and then sell it. They do this to make a living.

If you make a product, i do not care what it is, and it is unique. You IMMEDIATELY patent it so that you can market it and sell it.

Most of us that use the web do *not* live in a communist or socialist environment. If we make something, and we sell it, then we have a right to ask the enforcement of laws that are *already* in place to ensure that no one can rip us off.

That is all for now.
"Show me a man with 'No Fear' and I will show you a fool." --Anonymous
Re: Metallica fingers 335,435 Napster users (none / 0) (#28)
by Anonymous Hero on Tue May 02, 2000 at 08:02:03 PM EST

They are right in suing copyright violators (the people that are actually distributing their music), but their lawsuit against Napster is stupid. Napster is just a search engine, they didn't distribute any copyrighted work. Saying Napster is responsible for music piracy is like saying CuteFTP (or any FTP/HTTP program or search engine) is responsible for software piracy.

[ Parent ]
Re: Metallica fingers 335,435 Napster users (none / 0) (#29)
by Perpetual Newbie on Tue May 02, 2000 at 09:31:18 PM EST

They are right in suing copyright violators (the people that are actually distributing their music), but their lawsuit against Napster is stupid.

From what I've heard, the story goes:

Napster refused to take any proactive measures to prevent bitlegging of Metallica's music, and instead said something to the effect of "Tell us who's doing it and we'll kick them off." Metallica's lawyer thought this offer was ludicrous, and filed the lawsuit.

Now Metallica has identified those users who are or are claiming to be offering copies of their copyrighted materiel. If Napster now fails to remove these users who have been identified from their service or prevent them from sharing files, Napster (the company, not the program) should be considered to be supporting the illegal activities of these users, and a lawsuit would be justified.

I think the current lawsuit should be thrown out anyways, because Metallica's attack lawyer filed suit before making any attempt to notify the company of the illegal activity. It's obvious from Lars's statement that the band thinks Napster, Inc. is Big Evil Corporation giving away copies of their music that the company has no rights to.

Slightly off-topic: Wonder if this lawyer's the same guy that threatened to sue Encyclopaedia Metallica for using the trademarked Metallica logo on their page?

[ Parent ]

Re: Metallica fingers 335,435 Napster users (none / 0) (#31)
by Anonymous Hero on Wed May 03, 2000 at 03:58:01 PM EST

Napster refused to take any proactive measures to prevent bitlegging of Metallica's music...

If you can figure out how to do this, you should be working for Napster. Seriously, do you just filter anything with "Metallica" in the title? So now everyone starts pirating "M37ALL1CA" music. You could create a database with every copyrighted song, but apparently the RIAA considers that illegal (they won against my.mp3.com - their main claim was that mp3.com broke the law by building the database, not just by distributing music). And the file transfers don't go through Napster's servers anyway, so you can't tell if the song is copyrighted.

Now Metallica has identified those users who are or are claiming to be offering copies of their copyrighted materiel. If Napster now fails to remove these users who have been identified from their service or prevent them from sharing files, Napster (the company, not the program) should be considered to be supporting the illegal activities of these users, and a lawsuit would be justified.

This is kind of iffy. I don't think Napster should have any responsibility to remove songs, but the DMCA says they do. But 335435 songs? I doubt they verified that EVERY song on the list was actually Metallica music. If they provide the list under penalty of perjury, in a computer readable form, Napster should disable the accounts. They should download the user's files (or random parts of them) before doing this, take a couple of cryptographic hashes, and store those. If the user says they didn't really have Metallica music, they can provide the files, compare the hashes, and prove they weren't pirating music. And Metallica should get in big trouble for falsely accusing them.

Metallica could also provide hashes of the MP3's of their albums that are being passed around. Napster could refuse to process any files matching these hashes. The problem is that ripping and encoding will produce different hashes for each MP3 made. This would stop specific MP3 files, but user's could always rip more to get around that.

I'm not supporting music piracy, but it is EXTREMELY difficult to stop, especially when the music doesn't flow through your servers.

[ Parent ]

Re: Metallica fingers 335,435 Napster users (none / 0) (#27)
by krogoth on Tue May 02, 2000 at 06:38:06 PM EST

Don't even make a real MP3 file - just search for a song, make a .mp3 file with the same name and size, and fill it with random numbers (or maybe a text message!)
--
"If you've never removed your pants and climbed into a tree to swear drunkenly at stuck-up rich kids, I highly recommend it."
:wq
Re: Metallica fingers 335,435 Napster users (none / 0) (#32)
by Anonymous Hero on Mon May 08, 2000 at 03:54:11 PM EST

I saw a suggestion on nofuncharlie that Metallica should have to provide proof that the users fingered were engaging in illegal activity by downloading each mp3 (check it out here). Seems like your proposal is evidence they should be forced to do just that!

[ Parent ]
Metallica fingers 335,435 Napster users | 32 comments (32 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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