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[P]
New search engine from Altavista copies Google, raging.com

By enthalpyX in News
Fri May 05, 2000 at 09:29:36 AM EST
Tags: Freedom (all tags)
Freedom

Don Marti posted a message on the Burnallgifs mailing list about a new search engine, raging.com, that uses a technology similar to Google's PageRank (patent pending) system.


From Don's email:

[<snip, from raging.com about page>] Link analysis uses the many connections from one page to another to rank the quality and/or usefulness of each page. In other words, if many Web pages are linking to a page X, then page X is considered a high-quality page. In this way, Raging Search technology uses the judgment of actual people across the Web to improve our rankings. [</snip>]

Translating this out of weenie-speak, this says, "HA HA, Google! Take your software patent and stick it where the Sun don't shine!"


The entire text of the message can be found here.

I tried a few obscure search terms, and the results were pretty good. I wasn't aware that Google applied for a patent for "PageRank" or whatever it is. A more detailed explanation of PageRank is available here.

Anyway, yet another search engine for the masses. Plus, it uses PNG. =)

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New search engine from Altavista copies Google, raging.com | 29 comments (29 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Yeah, post it. Search engines are c... (5.00 / 1) (#3)
by Dacta on Thu May 04, 2000 at 11:20:07 PM EST

Dacta voted 1 on this story.

Yeah, post it. Search engines are cool, but I'm pretty sure the page rank patent woudl be more specific than that. I read the Google papers on it when Google was still at Stamford, and it was pretty complicated.

Woo hoo! More patent wars!... (5.00 / 1) (#6)
by HiRes on Thu May 04, 2000 at 11:28:30 PM EST

HiRes voted 1 on this story.

Woo hoo! More patent wars!
--
wcb
wait! before you rate, read.

Always good to know about another n... (5.00 / 1) (#13)
by Lionfire on Thu May 04, 2000 at 11:50:41 PM EST

Lionfire voted 1 on this story.

Always good to know about another non-crud-filled search engine...

[ blog | cute ]

LOL! This is a total ripoff of Goog... (5.00 / 1) (#2)
by mattc on Fri May 05, 2000 at 12:04:54 AM EST

mattc voted -1 on this story.

LOL! This is a total ripoff of Google! Even the front page looks the same! Thanks, but I'll stick to using google.

I can't imagine that "pagerank" is ... (5.00 / 1) (#7)
by soulhuntre on Fri May 05, 2000 at 12:06:21 AM EST

soulhuntre voted 1 on this story.

I can't imagine that "pagerank" is so unique as to be worth a patent.

I wasn't going to vote for this, bu... (5.00 / 1) (#1)
by rusty on Fri May 05, 2000 at 12:12:05 AM EST

rusty voted 1 on this story.

I wasn't going to vote for this, but then I searched for "kuro5hin" and found a webCVS VHost on my own home machine that I forgot was still running. So, ok, pretty good search engine-- not too many results, and all valid. Plus, it's pretty.

____
Not the real rusty

Re: I wasn't going to vote for this, bu... (none / 0) (#15)
by Marcin on Fri May 05, 2000 at 10:31:58 AM EST

I wasn't going to vote for this, but then I searched for "kuro5hin" and found a webCVS VHost on my own home machine that I forgot was still running. So, ok, pretty good search engine-- not too many results, and all valid.

Actually, I tried the same thing after reading this and decided that it's not a good search engine ;) The main site (ie. www.kuro5hin.org) came up like 4th or 5th in the list (Can't rememebr exactly, it was this afternoon at work) but when you search for 'kuro5hin' on Google you get it first in the list.. as it should be in a search engine that prides itself on relevance.
M.
[ Parent ]

Search engines suck ;) ... (5.00 / 1) (#10)
by Marcin on Fri May 05, 2000 at 12:23:31 AM EST

Marcin voted 0 on this story.

Search engines suck ;)

All search engines suck.. none of them (at least the few major ones I tried) have found me either of the last two of Rusty's sigs ;)

What peeves me about Raging.com is how much of a blatant rip-off of Google it is.. normally this wouldn't bother me, the web is free afterall, but I have a soft spot in my heart (!!) for Google because it's all nice and fast and relatively ad free.

Although I did notice that they've gotten rid of their caching.. grr.
M.

Re: Search engines suck ;)... (2.00 / 1) (#16)
by jredburn on Fri May 05, 2000 at 11:21:20 AM EST

Actually, the caching is still there. And improved.

Just click on Show Matches on a Google results page and you'll get the cached version -- complete with your search terms highlighted :).

[ Parent ]

Re: Search engines suck ;)... (none / 0) (#26)
by Marcin on Sat May 06, 2000 at 05:49:04 AM EST

I just went to google and they've changed the text to say "Show Matches (Cache)". Hehe.. good timing :)
M.
[ Parent ]
Re: Search engines suck ;)... (none / 0) (#20)
by chicmome on Fri May 05, 2000 at 12:32:34 PM EST

Actually Altavista picked up "Is history to be considered the property of the participants solely? In what courts are such claims staked, what boundary commissions map out the territories?". I just wasn't quick enough. ;) No such luck on his current sig though.

[ Parent ]
kinda esoteric, if you ask me... (5.00 / 1) (#12)
by thelaw on Fri May 05, 2000 at 12:29:15 AM EST

thelaw voted -1 on this story.

kinda esoteric, if you ask me

+1, it's a fun possibly copyright i... (5.00 / 1) (#11)
by MadDreamer on Fri May 05, 2000 at 12:41:52 AM EST

MadDreamer voted 0 on this story.

+1, it's a fun possibly copyright infringement story, -1 after all the amazon.com one-click bull it's not all that entertaining. +1 It's interesting technology. -1 Google already did it. = 0

I always liked Altavista's method o... (5.00 / 1) (#9)
by nicktamm on Fri May 05, 2000 at 01:06:03 AM EST

nicktamm voted 1 on this story.

I always liked Altavista's method of describing queries, but I always liked Google's method of ranking pages more. Maybe this will turn out to be what I've been looking for (I don't know, I've only tried one of two searches so far). Does anybody know how Altavista's database of pages compares to Google's? Oh well, it should be interesting to see how Google reacts to this patent wise if they truly are infringing on Google's patent.
Nick Tamm nick-k5@echorequest.net http://www.nicktamm.org

Re: I always liked Altavista's method o... (none / 0) (#22)
by fluffy grue on Fri May 05, 2000 at 02:53:10 PM EST

Google is starting to put in some of Altavista's query-building stuff. The + has a bit of a different semantic meaning (basically, it means "Yes, I know this is a stop word, use it anyway"), and - doesn't seem to actually do anything right now, but they're definitely making searches nice and flexible. The only thing I don't like about Google is their apparent patent whoring. However, Raging is apparently run by Altavista, and so I've got this illogical yet strong opposition to using it. That and Google's search results are much more comprehensive and flexible (you can search on specific A HREFs, for example, and see exactly where the matches are, and see Google's cached copy in case the page has gone 404). I'll stick to Google for now.
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

that other site will probably be sc... (5.00 / 1) (#8)
by Didel on Fri May 05, 2000 at 01:41:14 AM EST

Didel voted 1 on this story.

that other site will probably be screaming "sue!", but I'm glad another good search engine may appear. the more the merrier. I want to hear what others have to say.

Re: that other site will probably be sc... (none / 0) (#14)
by Demona on Fri May 05, 2000 at 09:36:23 AM EST

Hey, "that other site" is kuro5hin-speak for /.! You're misleading people by referring to Google with it :)

[ Parent ]
Re: that other site will probably be sc... (none / 0) (#18)
by rusty on Fri May 05, 2000 at 12:20:03 PM EST

I think Didel *was* referring to /. -- i.e. "When the zealots on /. hear about this, they'll holler bloody murder." So it was a justified and jargon-compliant "TOS". :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Re: that other site will probably be sc... (none / 0) (#19)
by Demona on Fri May 05, 2000 at 12:27:12 PM EST

"And how many do you think we should bribe?"

"I should think three hundred, to be sure. At a thousand pounds each."

"Three hundred thousand pounds?"

"Four hundred thousand, I think you'll find, sir."

(beat)

(beat)

"Yes -- yes, you're right. Sorry."

[ Parent ]

Re: that other site will probably be sc... (none / 0) (#29)
by bladerunner on Mon May 08, 2000 at 02:04:58 PM EST

Black Adder, Episode 1: Dish and Dishonesty
Did I pass?
-Ex-slashdotter. I love cats, but hate Katz.
[ Parent ]
Re: that other site will probably be sc... (none / 0) (#24)
by Anonymous Hero on Fri May 05, 2000 at 03:39:36 PM EST

This is one of few patent I feel is legitimate. Google's rank system was innovative and non-obvious. They also spent a great deal of time on it, and, unlike the evil Unisys patent, Google's is very specific. It would be A Bad Thing if Altavista violated Google's patent in this. Even the page layout of copied exactly.

[ Parent ]
More than 1 line for the front page... (5.00 / 1) (#4)
by evro on Fri May 05, 2000 at 04:30:25 AM EST

evro voted 1 on this story.

More than 1 line for the front page writeup next time, m'kay?
---
"Asking me who to follow -- don't ask me, I don't know!"

Re: More than 1 line for the front page... (none / 0) (#23)
by enthalpyX on Fri May 05, 2000 at 03:35:39 PM EST

Give me a break; it's the first time I've ever submitted a story.

Anyway, note taken.

[ Parent ]
Seems reasonably good. I wonder how... (3.00 / 2) (#5)
by stimuli on Fri May 05, 2000 at 09:29:36 AM EST

stimuli voted 1 on this story.

Seems reasonably good. I wonder how long before it sells out and starts to suck.
-- Jeffrey Straszheim

Re: Seems reasonably good. I wonder how... (none / 0) (#17)
by tommasz on Fri May 05, 2000 at 11:29:39 AM EST

There are two ways to look at this. First, there's the fact that it's owned by another web searching site that has already "sold out", so the incentive to generate revenue is less. Second, most searching sites "suck", to some degree or another. Given all the built-in biases, algorithm differences, and the never-ending volatility of the web, it's always a good idea to have multiple search sites in your arsenal. Depending on one, no matter how good or idealogically pure, is not optimal.

[ Parent ]
Too similar to Google. (4.50 / 2) (#21)
by kovacsp on Fri May 05, 2000 at 02:12:49 PM EST

That search engine is so similar to Google that I bet you it's a licensee of the technology. The results returned are very similar from both engines, even the page layout is nearly the same!

Another reason to hate raging.com (5.00 / 1) (#25)
by mattm on Sat May 06, 2000 at 02:06:34 AM EST

We're sorry. Raging.com does not support text-only browsers.

Bastards. Maybe this is their attempt to head off people who used to use the text-only version of Alta Vista to avoid the ads (can't do that anymore, alas!).



Re: Another reason to hate raging.com (none / 0) (#27)
by pb on Sat May 06, 2000 at 04:50:15 PM EST

It works fine in w3m, dude.

Get a *real* text-only browser. ;)
---
"See what the drooling, ravening, flesh-eating hordes^W^W^W^WKuro5hin.org readers have to say."
-- pwhysall
[ Parent ]
open directory (5.00 / 1) (#28)
by zendmaster on Sun May 07, 2000 at 03:15:38 PM EST

it doesn't "yet" implement the open directory (dmoz.org) which i feel helps google. i really like how google ranks the ODP and find it helpful and nice.

New search engine from Altavista copies Google, raging.com | 29 comments (29 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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