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Winamp Lockers == MP3.com's Beam-It?

By evro in News
Mon May 08, 2000 at 05:11:19 PM EST
Tags: News (all tags)
News

I was just looking at the Winamp homepage and saw at the bottom,

Kids, we've just inked a deal with myplay and guess what? You come out on top! Within the next few weeks, we'll be working hard to bring you the actual Winamp Lockers where you can place all your favorite music. You'll be able to play your music from anywhere in the world, all you'll need is your login name and password! Hurray! We're excited and we hope you are too. Stay tuned for more information, things are really getting cool around here...
This sounds to me like the MP3.com Beam-It service all over again. With MP3.com having lost their suit (over Beam-It), and Nullsoft owned by AOL/Time Warner, I wonder what this means? I guess being the copyright holder really has its advantages. Will MP3.com now sue Warner for stealing its idea?


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Winamp Lockers == MP3.com's Beam-It? | 35 comments (35 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
I'm trying to prevent an overdose o... (1.00 / 1) (#12)
by inspire on Sun May 07, 2000 at 09:00:03 PM EST

inspire voted -1 on this story.

I'm trying to prevent an overdose of MP3/Napster/Gnuteller/MP3.COM articles. And the link is broken.
--
What is the helix?

If this gets posted I demand they c... (1.00 / 2) (#16)
by Commienst on Sun May 07, 2000 at 09:24:31 PM EST

Commienst voted -1 on this story.

If this gets posted I demand they change the title to:

Kuro5hin
technology, Mp3s, and culture, from the trenches

Evro is totally wrong: ... (4.50 / 2) (#5)
by davidu on Sun May 07, 2000 at 09:36:46 PM EST

davidu voted -1 on this story.

Evro is totally wrong: I intern at MP3.com and here is the deal: Beam-It: Verify's that the user has the CD in question and once verified (through the beam-it software) it allows said user to stream those songs.
Basically, they don't have to upload the music to mp3.com's servers.
MyPlay:
Basically file-storage. They don't care where the mp3 comes from but you have to upload it. What they are doing is like a phone operator. They host the mp3s but they don't know which are licensed and legal and which are not. This is commonly referred to as a "common carrier" policy in the meatworld and I assume it is the same online.


Didn't MP3.com lose because they ma... (2.00 / 1) (#18)
by nicktamm on Sun May 07, 2000 at 10:15:48 PM EST

nicktamm voted 0 on this story.

Didn't MP3.com lose because they made the copies themselves? I think the "lockers" contain the actual MP3s themselves, not just information on which of myplay's shared MP3s the user is interested in/owns the CD for. It will be pretty funny if myplay is sued by Warner after signing a deal with them.
Nick Tamm nick-k5@echorequest.net http://www.nicktamm.org

So all it takes is a username/passw... (none / 0) (#11)
by bobsquatch on Sun May 07, 2000 at 10:25:52 PM EST

bobsquatch voted 1 on this story.

So all it takes is a username/password pair to play (and, I assume that means download) somebody else's mp3 collection? Hmm.... "Honest, yer honor, I have no idea how my 30 closest friends could have guessed my password and copied all my mp3's..."

There appears to be a big differenc... (2.00 / 1) (#13)
by cthulhu on Sun May 07, 2000 at 10:40:47 PM EST

cthulhu voted 1 on this story.

There appears to be a big difference between the two services. It is my understanding that the Beam-It service was a database of mp3s that could be accessed once it had been established that the user had the 'right' to access the database through providing evidence of a legal copy.

The myplay.com service offers a secure server for mp3 files.

There is a big difference in the methodologies here, regardless of the players.

This is pretty interesting. ... (3.50 / 2) (#20)
by Marcin on Sun May 07, 2000 at 11:05:03 PM EST

Marcin voted 1 on this story.

This is pretty interesting.

It seems a bit different to the my.mp3.com (or whatever it is) thing.. that seemed to imply that you need to supply proof that you own the CD before you can access the music, but everyone accesses the same copy. This Winamp thing however seems to be that you upload your MP3s to a directory that's just for you and only you can access them. It's still probably illegal, but not so illegal ;) Heh.

I reckon the Nullsoft guys are just trying to beef up their MP3 collections by having the populace supply it for them ;)
M.

This seems interesting -- will a co... (2.00 / 1) (#21)
by Wodin on Sun May 07, 2000 at 11:48:13 PM EST

Wodin voted 1 on this story.

This seems interesting -- will a company with more legal and monetary clout succeed where another has failed? Is it even the same thing, or just something else under a different guise? If you have to actually upload the MP3s, then it's a completely different service.

What does AOL owning Nullsoft have ... (none / 0) (#23)
by leshert on Mon May 08, 2000 at 12:48:35 AM EST

leshert voted -1 on this story.

What does AOL owning Nullsoft have to do with whether they'll get sued?! Time-Warner != RIAA.

This sounds to me like the MP3.com ... (5.00 / 1) (#9)
by Dacta on Mon May 08, 2000 at 02:21:16 AM EST

Dacta voted -1 on this story.

This sounds to me like the MP3.com Beam-It service all over again.

I'm fairly sure Nullsoft have heard of the MP3.com case and are aware of the risks, so they must be doing it some otherway. Research what they are actually doing before posting uninformed speculation.

Needs more write up...... (none / 0) (#7)
by kraant on Mon May 08, 2000 at 05:50:03 AM EST

kraant voted -1 on this story.

Needs more write up...
--
"kraant, open source guru" -- tumeric
Never In Our Names...

... (none / 0) (#28)
by BJH on Mon May 08, 2000 at 06:11:59 AM EST

BJH voted 1 on this story.

Once again, corporate greed wins out over justice...
--
Roses are red, violets are blue.
I'm schizophrenic, and so am I.
-- Oscar Levant

If there is a difference between "M... (3.50 / 2) (#22)
by Saint Zero on Mon May 08, 2000 at 07:07:21 AM EST

Saint Zero voted 1 on this story.

If there is a difference between "My Music" and "CD's of bands I've been brainwashed to like stored digitally online..." mp3.com was looking for trouble with their system, I'm hoping winamp has more sense than to try something like that so soon after mp3.com got its butt kicked. Then again, some people never learn.
---------- Patron Saint of Nothing, really.

"...where you can place all your...... (none / 0) (#6)
by Pelorat on Mon May 08, 2000 at 07:24:57 AM EST

Pelorat voted 0 on this story.

"...where you can place all your..." implies that you'll have to upload them yourself. Besides, the MP3.com loss guarantees that Winamp won't be ripping MP3s for anyone any time soon.

And given that I'm still on a dialup modem line, this sort of announcement is rather uninteresting to me =)

They're providing storage for the u... (none / 0) (#15)
by pb on Mon May 08, 2000 at 09:26:34 AM EST

pb voted -1 on this story.

They're providing storage for the users. This is about as bad as Freedrive, and nothing like Beam-It. Do your research.
---
"See what the drooling, ravening, flesh-eating hordes^W^W^W^WKuro5hin.org readers have to say."
-- pwhysall

It doesn't sound the same at all. T... (none / 0) (#8)
by mattdm on Mon May 08, 2000 at 09:26:42 AM EST

mattdm voted -1 on this story.

It doesn't sound the same at all. The thing with mp3.com's service was that you didn't have to upload anything if they already had a copy. This sounds just like an "internet floppy disk" service.

Well if the RIAA tries suing AOL/TI... (4.00 / 1) (#25)
by Anonymous Zero on Mon May 08, 2000 at 10:17:16 AM EST

Anonymous Zero voted 1 on this story.

Well if the RIAA tries suing AOL/TImeWarner then Winamp will just cut off the service then broadcast a message on their cable network: "The RIAA has taken your music away from you..."

New twist on an old story... (none / 0) (#27)
by tubbonator on Mon May 08, 2000 at 10:21:30 AM EST

tubbonator voted -1 on this story.

New twist on an old story

Always amusing to see who gets cont... (4.00 / 1) (#17)
by tidepool on Mon May 08, 2000 at 10:43:33 AM EST

tidepool voted 1 on this story.

Always amusing to see who gets control of a good idea. Weather it be via lawsuit, bullying, or a corporate buyout, these good ideas (which are usually thought up by individuals / smaller companies) are soon ripped from their owners (Can you really own such an idea) and placed into the hands of the larger companies.
Makes me sick.

Re: Always amusing to see who gets cont... (none / 0) (#32)
by FlinkDelDinky on Mon May 08, 2000 at 10:57:28 PM EST

I think this was part of the idea of copyright and patents. To give legal protection for the creators of good ideas.

[ Parent ]
perhaps they'll learn from the lega... (none / 0) (#30)
by zendmaster on Mon May 08, 2000 at 11:20:25 AM EST

zendmaster voted 1 on this story.

perhaps they'll learn from the legal battle and the lawyers will say "you can do this and this but not that" and they'll create a legal beam-it service. it will be interesting to see if mp3.com comes out with a new, legal type "locker system."

Hmmm...seems a little diffent than ... (4.00 / 1) (#4)
by Emacs on Mon May 08, 2000 at 11:25:50 AM EST

Emacs voted 1 on this story.

Hmmm...seems a little diffent than the MP3 case, I thought the main problem (I'm going from memory here..I could be wrong)was the mp3 people were making a copy of a disk and letting you download that if you had purchased the disk. In other words if you bought a cd from cd-o-rama.com you could go to MP3.com and download the cd in mp3 format so you could listen to it while waiting for the disk to be shipped out to you.

Apparently, even though you purchased the disk, it's not legal for the MP3 people to make a digital copy of it.

As far as I know there is nothing illegal about storing an mp3 on a server somewhere, provided the mp3 is not illegally copied. There are plenty of mp3's out there that are freely distributable

Kind of tired of reading about MP3s... (1.00 / 1) (#26)
by dgay on Mon May 08, 2000 at 11:38:02 AM EST

dgay voted 0 on this story.

Kind of tired of reading about MP3s every 10 minutes.

I guess now they'll have to change ... (none / 0) (#14)
by drwiii on Mon May 08, 2000 at 11:41:17 AM EST

drwiii voted 1 on this story.

I guess now they'll have to change their default slogan mp3 file to say "Winamp. It really whips the RIAA's ass."

sounds like kind of an interesting ... (none / 0) (#10)
by pope nihil on Mon May 08, 2000 at 12:04:38 PM EST

pope nihil voted 0 on this story.

sounds like kind of an interesting idea.

I voted.

At least this is not a dumb article... (none / 0) (#2)
by ramses0 on Mon May 08, 2000 at 12:07:02 PM EST

ramses0 voted 1 on this story.

At least this is not a dumb article about MP3's, it actually has a point.
[ rate all comments , for great justice | sell.com ]

Behold the power of unmitigated pol... (3.00 / 1) (#19)
by Paradox on Mon May 08, 2000 at 12:30:42 PM EST

Paradox voted 1 on this story.

Behold the power of unmitigated politics and business tactics.

When did I become a kid again?
Dave "Paradox" Fayram

print print join q( ), split(q,q,,reverse qq;#qsti
qq)\;qlre;.q.pqevolqiqdog.);#1 reason to grin at Perl
print "\n";

Well, it goes to show that AOL is u... (2.00 / 1) (#29)
by DrNyckô on Mon May 08, 2000 at 12:34:40 PM EST

DrNyckô voted 1 on this story.

Well, it goes to show that AOL is up to evilness once again! Screwing over a site like mp3.com because they want it all. If they really want it all, they should have to obtain it the hard way instead of using money to talk with. AOL should grow up and give back the $200.00 they still owe my father from 2 years ago.
Sue me for anything that may seem stupid... I am new and trying to settle in (if you can say).

enough about mp3's and napster alre... (1.00 / 1) (#1)
by asad on Mon May 08, 2000 at 02:00:13 PM EST

asad voted -1 on this story.

enough about mp3's and napster already.

In favor of ongoing departments or ... (1.00 / 1) (#3)
by Demona on Mon May 08, 2000 at 02:28:19 PM EST

Demona voted 0 on this story.

In favor of ongoing departments or such for continually updated issues that some may tire of more quickly than others, leaving this zeroed.

How corrupt is our government when ... (1.50 / 2) (#24)
by deimos on Mon May 08, 2000 at 03:38:04 PM EST

deimos voted 0 on this story.

How corrupt is our government when corporate america can buy the laws and court verdicts it views as protecting their rights?
irc.kuro5hin.org: Good Monkeys, Great Typewriters.

Re: Winamp Lockers == MP3.com's Beam-It? (none / 0) (#31)
by adamsc on Mon May 08, 2000 at 05:17:25 PM EST

The difference between this and MP3.com's Beam-It might be that you have to upload the MP3s directly. The only thing MP3.com did which is being debated is creating the MP3s directly and just recording which CD's the user owned. Had they instead forced the user to create the MP3s and upload them, the entire current case wouldn't have happened.

I don't get it. Beam-It vs Lockers (4.00 / 1) (#33)
by Raymond on Tue May 09, 2000 at 06:28:18 AM EST

I really don't get it. Maybe someone could explain it to me. 1)MP3.com's Beam-it: uses the same copy of the mp3, but you have to supply valid proof that you own the recording before being able to listen to it. 2)Winamp Lockers: you can upload any (il)legal mp3, as long as you do it yourself. For some reason option 1 seems 'more friendly' to copyrightholders then option 2 to me, but it gets rejected in court. What makes AOL-Time Warner/Nullsoft think that option 2 will survive court?
----- Someone you trust is one of us...
Lotta bandwidth (3.00 / 1) (#34)
by anonymous cowerd on Tue May 09, 2000 at 11:06:15 AM EST

This is an interesting story. I want to see how they manage this. This has got to be a really expensive service to offer, is it going to be paid for by advertising and free to the end user? That ad seems to indicate that the user is typically going to play MP3s directly off this service, rather than downloading a file first and then playing it. To download an MP3 you have to shove three megabytes through the Internet once, but if you play your MP3 directly off this service you pump 3 MB every time you want to hear the song. I know AOL/TW has big servers and big pipelines, but that's a lot of bandwidth.

In Winamp you can play an MP3 off a URL, and I just experimented, it seems to works fine over a cable modem or DSL. But MP3s play at about 1 MB per minute, faster than a 56K modem can go. So if this thing gets popular, it might sell a lot of AOL/Time-Warner/RoadRunner cable modem subscriptions. But the bit about "playing your MP3s anywhere in the world" is kinda dubious. Even if you have a cable modem at home, do you have cable or DSL access "anywhere in the world"? I suppose they might offer a "download first" option for users with slower connections.

This Winamp "locker" system requires a ton of server space too. MP3.com's system had one copy of any particular song on line. This "locker" business would have to have a separate directory for every user, right? So if 10,000 people store a 3 MB MP3 of a particular song on line, that's 30 GB just for one song! My MP3 collection (which is, believe it or not, all made by me from CDs I bought at the store - I never even got an account at Napster) is about 1.8 GB, and I've still got lots of CDs and LPs yet to convert. Can Winamp actually afford to give away whole gigabytes of server space to any and all comers? If so, and if you cheat a little, you could get an account there and use it as offsite backup for your server! Just archive all your stuff in zip or tar files about 3-4 MB in size, label them as *.mp3, and upload them to Winamp's server.

Yours WDK - WKiernan@concentric.net

"This calm way of flying will suit Japan well," said Zeppelin's granddaughter, Elisabeth Veil.

Re: Lotta bandwidth (none / 0) (#35)
by Alhazred on Tue May 09, 2000 at 11:49:25 AM EST

Well, your right on the bandwidth issue, but on the server space used there is no problem "sharing" the data between users. Each mp3 is the same for any particular song, so there is no reason for it to exist multiple times.

I built a site which lets people put up lots of graphics. I thought "it would be neat if the same file was only present once." (mainly because people are idiots and will tend to put the same file up a bunch of times with different names.)

Implementing this was simple. Whenever a data file is uploaded the system takes an MD5 checksum of the file's contents as its saved. This checksum is virtually guaranteed to be unique for each and every unique file. The system then saves the data in a file with a name "checksum.extension" (MD5 checksums are ASCII strings of 32 bytes so this works fine.)

I just keep a database in MySQL that lists the actual name of the thing, a description, and the name of the file where its stored, and another table that tells me WHO has tried to upload the same file, and where in their stuff it should appear. When someone goes to get a file that information easily allows a link to be built on the fly, and really who cares if your images are named things like AD5C918EE4301BC95.jpg?

The same scheme would work perfectly for mp3's. No matter how many different names people try to put the file onto the server under, the checksum is always the same, and the data is only stored once.

All of this took maybe a couple hours to implement in perl...
That is not dead which may eternal lie And with strange aeons death itself may die.
[ Parent ]
Winamp Lockers == MP3.com's Beam-It? | 35 comments (35 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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