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[P]
So, ahhh... What's Going On?

By rusty in News
Mon May 08, 2000 at 09:06:23 PM EST
Tags: etc (all tags)
/etc

Ever since starting K5, I find myself reading many news sites on a daily basis, not to mention the Washington Post dead-tree edition, and I can say with some certainty that there is no news today. This is evidenced by the fact that there are currently 4 stories in the submission queue, two Microsoft/ILOVEYOU and two MP3, both of which are pretty much the default "null" news stories of the moment (i.e. the fallback when there's nothing else happening-- the tech news version of Elian). This may be a common Monday situation, but usually we have Inoshiro's excellent security articles to read, and often a book review from Paul Dunne to tide us over. Unfortunately they have both been delayed this week.

So, in recognition that there's nothing interesting going on today, I thought I'd throw a few quickies out there and just open up a forum for you all to say whatever's on your mind. Consider this an open forum, feel free to comment on the links below, or anything else, as suits your fancy. It's a beautiful warm spring day here in DC, so consider this a virtual picnic. As they say, no news is good news. :-)


Commence Quickies:

Bruce Perens is on the hunt for Open Source banner ads for Technocrat. If you've got a project, get some free publicity. We'll probably be doing something very similar here soon, so keep an eye out.

There's a new Kernel Traffic out for 8 May. Dig it.

Linux Today de-uglifies! Well, somewhat. Matter of fact, this just happened. Check out the new look.

RedHat: "We're a portal! Er, wait, no we're not.

If you like encryption puzzles, there's another one out there for you. This one only has a $5 prize, but the author swears its solvable. This was submitted here the other day, but wasn't much of a story by itself. Latest US Department of Labor statistics indicate that anyone who plans to make a living solving public encryption puzzles will remain dirt-poor their entire life. :-)

That's it, really. Feel free to comment upon these or any other tidbits you may have squirrelled away. Oh yeah, one more thing:

The Holy Roman Empire: Neither holy, nor Roman, nor really much of an empire. Discuss.

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Display: Sort:
So, ahhh... What's Going On? | 61 comments (61 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Good call, Rusty. ... (none / 0) (#5)
by adric on Mon May 08, 2000 at 04:53:59 PM EST

adric voted 1 on this story.

Good call, Rusty.

Anyody had any luck with DSL in BSD (PPPoE)? I could use some pointers?

Oh and anybody care to help me get syslog working on jailbait v5?

That's all I have.



Re: Good call, Rusty.... (none / 0) (#21)
by rusty on Mon May 08, 2000 at 09:46:17 PM EST

Anyody had any luck with DSL in BSD (PPPoE)?

E-I-E-I-O.

Seriously though... Roaring Penguin has a client for Linux, which, as it's userland, may work for BSD. There's also some misc info here.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

quickies are good. ... (none / 0) (#7)
by h2odragon on Mon May 08, 2000 at 05:00:47 PM EST

h2odragon voted 1 on this story.

quickies are good. The new look for LT has been longer in coming than I for one expected. So far, I find nothing terribly objectionable, but I predict that it'll be less than 6 months before LT is but a couple of headlines in the standard internet.com soup of jscript, anigifs, and other bullshit. internet.com is Evil. They will burn for what they did to boardwatch....

Ok, since we have established that ... (1.00 / 1) (#3)
by evro on Mon May 08, 2000 at 05:03:44 PM EST

evro voted 1 on this story.

Ok, since we have established that there isn't really any "real news" today, I would like to apologize for my submission about the winamp lockers. I emailed davidu, one of the k5 readers who works at mp3.com, and he cleared up some issues I had had regarding the beamit vs. the lockers. Basically I thought they were making lockers that anyone could just login to and download stuff, and that that was some kind of a copyright issue since anybody with the login/pw could get the goods, but I guess not.

Anyway, what I would like to discuss is the new AMD Thunderbird processor. The current line of Athlons uses Slot A, whereas the Thunderbird will use Socket A. From this page:

The current Athlon is packaged in a cartridge-like box, which plugs into the motherboard of a PC using Slot A. By moving the chip's level 2 cache onto the chip, Thunderbird eliminates the need for the cartridge, allowing AMD to save cost. (Slot A existed, in part, to accommodate Athlon's 512KB of off-chip L2 cache.)
So does anybody know of any motherboards that will be supporting Socket 7? The Asus K7V is a champ for Slot 7, but they don't have anything out yet that will support Socket 7, though something is in the works, according to an Asus rep.). So now I am faced with the quintessential computer question: when to upgrade?

Since this is a new chip that will need new motherboards, there's the period of time where everyone who buys one is a guinea pig for AMD & the mobo manufacturers. I guess my question is, how long is this time usually? 3 months? How long before bugs are worked out and the best motherboard becomes clear?

These are all just things that have been running around in my head lately, my apologies if you find them uninteresting... Probably what'll happen is I'll wait for the new chips to come out and the price to drop on the old ones and just get a nice Slot 7 Athlon 700...
---
"Asking me who to follow -- don't ask me, I don't know!"

Re: Ok, since we have established that ... (none / 0) (#20)
by Anonymous Hero on Mon May 08, 2000 at 09:44:50 PM EST

well, the change from slot A to socket A isn't as big of change as it seems, mostly its just a difference in form factor. It still uses the EV6 bus, it's just like how you can get pIIIs in a socket and slot form, accept amd won't offer any in the slot intervace.

[ Parent ]
Re: Ok, since we have established that ... (none / 0) (#48)
by puppet10 on Tue May 09, 2000 at 11:22:35 AM EST

It also isn't surprising. AMD isn't necessarilly just following Intel's lead here there are very good reasons to go to a socket form factor. I believe the reason the chips (PII PIII, and Athlon) weren't originally released on a socket form factor was to provide sufficient cache before (with .18/.13micron tech) to fit full speed cache on the chip itself. I'm sure if it could have released a socket version of the Athlon with full speed cache (of ~128kB) as early as the Socket A version was released it would have.

[ Parent ]
Re: Ok, since we have established that ... (none / 0) (#22)
by Marcin on Mon May 08, 2000 at 09:46:25 PM EST

So does anybody know of any motherboards that will be supporting Socket 7? The Asus K7V is a champ for Slot 7, but they don't have anything out yet that will support Socket 7, though something is in the works, according to an Asus rep.). So now I am faced with the quintessential computer question: when to upgrade?

I'm a bit confused by this. Current Athlon's go into a Slot A, yes? (I'm not sure myself, that's not a condescending question ;)) And these new socketed AMDs will go into a Socket A. So where does Socket 7 and Slot 7 come into it?! :) Did you confuse yourself in between the paragraph above the one I clagged and the paragraph I clagged? :)

I'm assuming the new chip goes into a Socket A and you're wondering if there are any Socket A motherboards. In which case, I doubt there will be any until the chip itself is released.
M.
[ Parent ]

doh (none / 0) (#28)
by evro on Mon May 08, 2000 at 10:41:41 PM EST

yeah, I read through my post after voting and kicked myself... all instances of Slot 7 should be Slot A and all Socket 7 should be Socket A. Confusing!
---
"Asking me who to follow -- don't ask me, I don't know!"
[ Parent ]
Re: Ok, since we have established that ... (none / 0) (#24)
by Tr3534 on Mon May 08, 2000 at 09:57:53 PM EST

has anyone ever noticed that amd practically follows intel around? intel starts using slots, amd starts using slots. intel goes back to sockets, amd annouces a return to sockets...
Sigmentation Fault: Post Dumped.
[ Parent ]
Re: Ok, since we have established that ... (none / 0) (#26)
by fluffy grue on Mon May 08, 2000 at 10:16:28 PM EST

I hate to say it, but Intel pretty much controls the market, and when Intel went to slots, suddenly, socketed CPUs started to look real weenie because, well, they're smaller. When Intel went back to sockets, they were basically admitting that you don't REALLY need a slot to be effective (the reason they went to a slot to begin with was so they could use external cache RAM, which has turned out to be a hindrance, since it just throws more variables into the stability/MHz equation) and that slots are really more trouble than they're worth (too big, too difficult to cool properly, etc.).

FWIW, in the Athlon's case, a slotted CPU card is actually useful, since the Athlon can use insane amounts of cache. However, large amounts of cache aren't really necessary in anything but large database servers. You'll notice that the P3 Xeon (the high-cache version of the P3) is still slotted. So are the high-cache Athlons. It's just that for anything under 512KB of cache (which is more than sufficient for consumer applications), it's simpler and cheaper to just go with embedded cache.

Oh, and the socketed P3s are basically just Celerons with SSE and more cache. Then there's the Celeron 2s which are just Celerons with SSE (i.e. a socketed P3 with less cache). I've yet to see any real justification for SSE, btw, what with all that functionality being handled by the video card like it should be.

On a related note, I can't wait for MAJC processors to start being available. (If you don't know what it is, there's a pretty good introduction at Ars Technica, though it doesn't really go into the REALLY cool stuff, like how the MAJC-5200 reference implementation has an embedded geometry processor, sustained 6 GFLOPS/13 GOPS performance, and two processor cores on the same CPU, not to mention that NICE 400MHz FSB...)
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

I vote this down because I feel tha... (none / 0) (#6)
by cdegroot on Mon May 08, 2000 at 05:06:28 PM EST

cdegroot voted -1 on this story.

I vote this down because I feel that no news is good news, and not a reason to introduce noise. Ok, it's a quiet time for news sites, so please keep quiet, will you? ;-)

Re: I vote this down because I feel tha... (none / 0) (#18)
by rusty on Mon May 08, 2000 at 09:36:58 PM EST

Any time you need some peace and quiet, feel free to visit kmself's pure thoughts page. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Yay quickies! The Holy Roman Empire... (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous Zero on Mon May 08, 2000 at 05:15:46 PM EST

Anonymous Zero voted 1 on this story.

Yay quickies! The Holy Roman Empire quote comes from Saturday Night Live Mike Meyers character Linda Richman... she's like buttah!

Re: Yay quickies! The Holy Roman Empire... (none / 0) (#13)
by HiRes on Mon May 08, 2000 at 09:16:07 PM EST

Anybody remember the precursor to the Linda Richmond character/sketch, when the show was still called "Coffee Talk" but it was hosted by Paul Baldwin, and they talked about cawffee, dawghters, and dawgs?
--
wcb
wait! before you rate, read.
[ Parent ]

Re: Yay quickies! The Holy Roman Empire... (none / 0) (#49)
by puppet10 on Tue May 09, 2000 at 11:25:03 AM EST

Yes I just thank God they didn't make a movie based on the character/sketch (either of them).

[ Parent ]
Re: Yay quickies! The Holy Roman Empire... (none / 0) (#59)
by rusty on Sun May 14, 2000 at 06:21:49 PM EST

Just you wait. They will. Eventually they'll get done making movies based on the *really* annoying SNL characters (Anyone see the "Pat" movie?) and move on to the only semi-annoying characters. Hell, they've just made a "Flintstones" movie. Anyone who thinks that one's about 15 years late, please raise your hands. Not to mention the fact that that horrible evil cow Rosie O'Donnell plays Betty Rubble!! Betty!! What have they done to you!

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Re: Yay quickies! The Holy Roman Empire... (none / 0) (#61)
by HiRes on Wed May 31, 2000 at 01:24:13 AM EST

Mmm... Betty was quite the betty.
--
wcb
wait! before you rate, read.
[ Parent ]

Re: Yay quickies! The Holy Roman Empire... (none / 0) (#29)
by evro on Mon May 08, 2000 at 10:44:13 PM EST

Damn, I was going to say that but I couldn't remember her name. Also, I wasn't sure whether or not she was the originator of the line.
---
"Asking me who to follow -- don't ask me, I don't know!"
[ Parent ]
Re: Yay quickies! The Holy Roman Empire... (none / 0) (#53)
by Rand Race on Tue May 09, 2000 at 05:32:36 PM EST

The '...discuss' part was Meyer's addition, the '..niether holy, roman, nor an empire.' part definately predates said skit. That joke probably originated shortly after the HRE itself.
"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because if there be one, He must approve the homage of Reason rather than that of blindfolded Fear." - Thomas Jefferson
[ Parent ]
Okay, I was somewhat indifferent to... (none / 0) (#4)
by pb on Mon May 08, 2000 at 05:20:24 PM EST

pb voted 1 on this story.

Okay, I was somewhat indifferent to the whole thing until I saw the "Holy Roman Empire" bit... That's funny... Don't you guys know that the world is put on hold while we have exams at my University? It's not just a good idea, it's our policy! :)
---
"See what the drooling, ravening, flesh-eating hordes^W^W^W^WKuro5hin.org readers have to say."
-- pwhysall

Holy crap. Interesting stuff. For a... (3.00 / 1) (#2)
by Pelorat on Mon May 08, 2000 at 05:32:30 PM EST

Pelorat voted 1 on this story.

Holy crap. Interesting stuff. For a change... Altho doesn't That Other Place call them "Quickies"? Mebbe you could call them "Fifths" or something, but that might get strange if there were more than 5...

Re: Holy crap. Interesting stuff. For a... (none / 0) (#16)
by your_desired_username on Mon May 08, 2000 at 09:30:07 PM EST

but that might get strange if there were more than 5...

More than 5 fifths at a time could be considered a sign of alcoholism. Or perhaps just the start of a good night ....

[ Parent ]
Re: Holy crap. Interesting stuff. For a... (4.00 / 1) (#17)
by rusty on Mon May 08, 2000 at 09:30:40 PM EST

Now I'm all insecure-- do you mean "for a change from the dull crap K5 usually runs" or "for a change from the utter lack of news today" or... what? And yeah, "Quickies" is, I suppose, already colonized by TOS. We'll think of another name when they eventually become a permanent fixture (probably "Mindless Link Propagation" cause I've come to love that phrase so much).

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Re: Holy crap. Interesting stuff. For a... (3.00 / 1) (#31)
by evro on Mon May 08, 2000 at 10:50:09 PM EST

"Mindless Link Propagation"

lol.
---
"Asking me who to follow -- don't ask me, I don't know!"
[ Parent ]

Re: Holy crap. Interesting stuff. For a... (none / 0) (#43)
by Pelorat on Tue May 09, 2000 at 08:24:11 AM EST

Given that I wouldn't be here if it was all dull crap... I meant interesting for a change over the weekend of blah.. no need to be insecure =)

[ Parent ]
Re: Holy crap. Interesting stuff. For a... (5.00 / 1) (#23)
by FlinkDelDinky on Mon May 08, 2000 at 09:55:42 PM EST

I think they shoulf be called Linkathons or MLP's (Mindless Link Propagation).

[ Parent ]
Re: Holy crap. Interesting stuff. For a... (4.00 / 1) (#25)
by rusty on Mon May 08, 2000 at 10:03:38 PM EST

I second MLP (see below your comment).

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
MLP -- Yes! (none / 0) (#36)
by kmself on Tue May 09, 2000 at 05:00:26 AM EST



--
Karsten M. Self
SCO -- backgrounder on Caldera/SCO vs IBM
Support the EFF!!
There is no K5 cabal.
[ Parent ]

It's warm in England too. Had a ni... (2.00 / 1) (#1)
by hattig on Mon May 08, 2000 at 05:35:14 PM EST

hattig voted 1 on this story.

It's warm in England too. Had a nice pint next a river in the sunshine. Nice.

Re: It's warm in England too. Had a ni... (none / 0) (#42)
by pwhysall on Tue May 09, 2000 at 08:08:17 AM EST

Which bit of England?

I had a nice pint the other day. Greene King IPA, it was. Lovely.
--
Peter
K5 Editors
I'm going to wager that the story keeps getting dumped because it is a steaming pile of badly formatted fool-meme.
CheeseBurgerBrown
[ Parent ]

I wouldn't call this a 'beautiful s... (2.00 / 1) (#11)
by genehack on Mon May 08, 2000 at 05:45:29 PM EST

genehack voted 1 on this story.

I wouldn't call this a 'beautiful spring day' in DC -- I'd call it too hot and too humid for May. On the other hand, I just moved here from Arizona, so the humidity is undoubtly mucking with my temperature sense.

On the gripping hand, I should really get back to work...

Re: I wouldn't call this a 'beautiful s... (3.00 / 1) (#15)
by rusty on Mon May 08, 2000 at 09:28:18 PM EST

Wow, you haven't been here in August yet, have you? :-) Ok, so it was a little warm for May, but still, IMO, in the acceptable DC range for "beautiful spring day." Seriously. If you're really [used to | fond of] Arizona dryness, boy are you gonna suffer down here in the swamp. >:-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Re: I wouldn't call this a 'beautiful s... (none / 0) (#19)
by Marcin on Mon May 08, 2000 at 09:40:25 PM EST

Wow, you haven't been here in August yet, have you? :-) Ok, so it was a little warm for May, but still, IMO, in the acceptable DC range for "beautiful spring day." Seriously. If you're really [used to | fond of] Arizona dryness, boy are you gonna suffer down here in the swamp. >:-)

Lucky you.. In Australia we're just passing out of Summer and straight into Winter it seems. Well, it probably gets a lot colder there during Winter, but from what my parents tell me (my family is from Poland) -5 degrees (Celcius) still feels nicer than +5 degrees celcius. I think it was about 9 degrees this morning when I woke up.

We had a pretty dodgy summer this year.. the usual hot period, December - January, had a lot of rain and not very many hot days (usually only got up to 30 degrees or so), and then in February - March there were several days in a row between 35 - 40. It's like they moved summer this year! Maybe it's because of the Olympics :)

Oh yeah, and we have humid summers too, not a nice dry heat.. it can be pretty uncomfortable, though in a climate controlled office it's not so bad.

Well, I'm sure that's more than you wanted to know about the climate in Australia :)
M.
[ Parent ]

The phrase "Holy Roman Empire" (HRE... (2.00 / 1) (#10)
by madams on Mon May 08, 2000 at 06:29:50 PM EST

madams voted 1 on this story.

The phrase "Holy Roman Empire" (HRE, or Sacrum Romanum Imperium) may not have appeared until the 13th century, but Charlemagne certainly was the Holy Roman Emperor as early as Christmas Day, AD 800, at his coronation by Pope Leo III (an important guy in his time). But if we're talking circa the 30 Years' War, and not about the Carolingian Renaissance, then no, HRE is not an appropriate appelation.

--
Mark Adams
"But pay no attention to anonymous charges, for they are a bad precedent and are not worthy of our age." - Trajan's reply to Pliny the Younger, 112 A.D.

Re: The phrase (none / 0) (#40)
by Paul Dunne on Tue May 09, 2000 at 05:34:06 AM EST

I thought the Holy Roman Empire wasn't finally dismantled until Napoleon -- some time after the Thirty Years War.
http://dunne.home.dhs.org/
[ Parent ]
Re: The phrase (none / 0) (#56)
by Anonymous Hero on Thu May 11, 2000 at 01:28:43 PM EST

Indeed it was Napoleon that ended the HRE

The Peace of Augsburg, 1555, enshrined the right of the "princes" of domains in the HRE to choose between Catholicism or Lutheranism on behalf of their subjects. In the interregnum, both sides tried to exploit this by assasinations, etc, to have princes of their flavor in power. The rise of Calvinism only exacerbated this problem. Hence Thirty-Years War, exacerbated by Swedish and French influence.

Thirty Years War took place 1618-1648.

August 1st 1806 Francis II, Emperor of HRE, relinquishes the the Imperial Crown to Napoleon. Confederation of the Rhine created by Napoleon.

1815 With Napoleon defeated, the Congress of Vienna creates the German Confederacy

1849 King William IV tries to incorporate the Confederacy into an Empire (w/o warfare)
He fails.

1866 Prussia uses the Danish Crisis to provoke war with Austria, the German Confederacy ceases to exist, reorganized as Prussia annexes land, and creates the North German Confederacy, all opposing Austria, which unites under Hapsburg control w/ Hungary

1871 with the close of the Franco-Prussian War, the German Empire is founded (Second Reich)

the rest you all should know... after WWI, the Weimar Republic replaces teh Second Reich, then Hitler's Regime, then the West/East split for 50 years, and now the Federal German Republic.



[ Parent ]
I think the other site has better q... (1.00 / 1) (#9)
by jhillyerd on Mon May 08, 2000 at 06:58:57 PM EST

jhillyerd voted 0 on this story.

I think the other site has better quickies. =/

Seriously! (2.00 / 1) (#12)
by feline on Mon May 08, 2000 at 09:15:49 PM EST

I agree, there has been like no good news at all for quite a while

The only thing signifigant I can think of that's happened recently is the possible microsoft breakup, which doesn't really concern me anyway.

You know what I say, I say that someone go out and make news, go and kill richard stallman (KIDDING!!!) or put a gun to Linus' head and tell him to release 2.4 (also kidding, but I do want 2.4). Anyway, can't someone just make some news?
------------------------------------------

'Hello sir, you don't look like someone who satisfies his wife.'

Re: Seriously! (none / 0) (#14)
by your_desired_username on Mon May 08, 2000 at 09:25:30 PM EST

Careful there. If you had a gun nut page like ESR's, you might have scared somebody.

[ Parent ]
Re: Seriously! (5.00 / 1) (#39)
by Paul Dunne on Tue May 09, 2000 at 05:31:37 AM EST

He said a bad word! He said a bad word! I still remember what happened when I let that unfortunate phrase slip onto the Ether -- never again. And please, remember your sensitivity training: it's not "gun nut", it's "person with a differently-aspected attitude to projectile weaponry".
http://dunne.home.dhs.org/
[ Parent ]
Speaking of 2.4... (none / 0) (#41)
by pwhysall on Tue May 09, 2000 at 08:05:26 AM EST

A couple of questions to the K5 mob at large:

  1. Does anyone know when 2.4 is expected to appear? I know we're on 2.3.99pre6 now, which must mean that 2.4 can't be all that far away, surely.
  2. I know that there's non-bootable, experimental HPT366 support in 2.3.99. Is this a feature that's expected to get into the stable kernel anytime soon? Has anyone played with this? Does it eat your filesystems from time to time? (Spot the bloke who's just got a BP6-II and a Seagate Barracuda...)
  3. Last one. Has anyone tried the retail version of Quake III on the combo of XFree86 4.0, the NVidia driver, and a Riva TNT?

Hugs and kisses to anyone who answers :)
--
Peter
K5 Editors
I'm going to wager that the story keeps getting dumped because it is a steaming pile of badly formatted fool-meme.
CheeseBurgerBrown
[ Parent ]

Re: Speaking of 2.4... (none / 0) (#57)
by rusty on Thu May 11, 2000 at 05:10:18 PM EST

  1. Don't know.
  2. Don't know
  3. Not yet.
And if you try to kiss me, you better have some Jackie Chan style moves prepared. ;-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Careful, there... (none / 0) (#60)
by pwhysall on Sun May 14, 2000 at 06:46:33 PM EST

And if you try to kiss me, you better have some Jackie Chan style moves prepared. ;-)

Oooh, touchy!
--
Peter
K5 Editors
I'm going to wager that the story keeps getting dumped because it is a steaming pile of badly formatted fool-meme.
CheeseBurgerBrown
[ Parent ]

Re: So, ahhh... What's Going On? (4.00 / 1) (#27)
by FlinkDelDinky on Mon May 08, 2000 at 10:40:14 PM EST

I'm just curious, why don't more of you write original content? Most of the submissions that I see are mildly warmed over linkathons. Pretty much everything I've put in the que was original. Although my stuff has made it to the front page I would consider it moderately unsuccesfuly (judging by posting).

It seems like K5 is trying to go head to head with 'News' pages and I think it's going to be difficult to compete unless K5 goes commercial and advertises. Only then will it have a user base large enough to provide intresting news links as other sights do.

Of course K5 adds the additional burden that the news link contributers must also have skills as writers. Personally I don't want an MLP sight. Yah, I want good MLP but MLP 'only' is just to narrow.

Does everything have to be tech related? A while back there was a news story about Brazillian clubs were rival gangs go to hurt one another. It was a good story. But that would be bucking the trend now.

Their are some really great things about K5 (actaully it's Scoop and K5). In the Redhat weblog that was linked to above they had an Editor-in-Chief. That means you write for the editor. Here, you don't. Nor do you write for K5. You write for yourself.

Think about that for a moment. You don't have to be passive about what you desire to explore, nor do you have to be passive about informing people about something that you think is important or cool or whatever. TV seems to have killed our ability to imagine things as unique individuals. Rather, TV tells us we're XL, L, M, S and we accept it.

But we don't have to. Do you hate your boss? Why? Why not tell us? Maybe you went to Egypt and had some great transcendent ephipany, I might like to hear about it. Perhaps you think Linuxers are stupid and BSD ru13z? Tell me why with precision.

And to all you stupid ass's that say great story but I'm voting against it cause it's not right for K5, Piss off!!!!

Psst they think its slashdot (none / 0) (#32)
by Commienst on Mon May 08, 2000 at 10:59:26 PM EST

"And to all you stupid ass's that say great story but I'm voting against it cause it's not right for K5, Piss off!!!!"

A lot of people seem to have the impression this is this site is just slashdot with no andover and you choose the stories. If it is not tech or news they dump the story though the title clearly says: "Kuro5hin, technology and culture from the trenches".

[ Parent ]

Re: Psst they think its slashdot (none / 0) (#34)
by rusty on Tue May 09, 2000 at 12:33:24 AM EST

There will be some inevitable disagreement over what exactly is or isn't "appropriate". New people will always come here thinking they should act like it's slashdot, and who can blame them? I mean, I make no bones about it that scoop is an independent re-implementation of pretty much the slash interface. So, give them a site that looks and works similarly, and seems to cover the same topic areas, and what will they think?

I find that it's much more helpful if everyone understands that this *will* happen, and simply prepares themselves to gently nudge people toward the realization that we're different. You guys are the oldbies-- when someone doesn't get it, don't just tell them to go away; help them get it! We'll all be better for having them, in the long run.

The other part of this is my fault. Scoop has some serious needs, as software. I need to add several things to make it work more smoothly, the way it's supposed to. I'm eternally grateful for all of your patience, but I can't say that it's not my fault. Yes, there are things that need to improve here, and yes, they will. Have patience, all will come. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

I think we need more culture (none / 0) (#58)
by pwhysall on Fri May 12, 2000 at 05:48:45 AM EST

Tech is fine. Tech is good. But one needs something to complete the picture.

Hacker culture (such that is) is so much more than just the machines and the software. It's also the books, the music, the food, the beer, the attitudes, the hobbies...

I wanna hear more about all these things.
--
Peter
K5 Editors
I'm going to wager that the story keeps getting dumped because it is a steaming pile of badly formatted fool-meme.
CheeseBurgerBrown
[ Parent ]

Why I haven't written any original content (5.00 / 1) (#47)
by dlc on Tue May 09, 2000 at 10:45:06 AM EST

Writing original content is easy. Writing good content is hard. I don't want to put up any old thing. If / When I put something up on the web, whether it be on K5, or slashdot, or on my own site, I want it to be intelligent, well-thought-out, and solid. I want it to go through many revisions and drafts.

However, I also want to eat, keep my job, and have some time with my wife and young son. This is the trade-off. I am one of the lucky ones that get to trade code for money, so I cannot complain, but it gets in the way of my writing. I feel that I have a lot to contribute -- I've spent many years learning (I'd like to say 'mastering', but not yet) several programming languages, I'm very confortable with technology in general, I have a degree in Religion and Philosophy, I am an avid reader -- these are all topics that I could contribute intelligently to the community. But, unfortunately, it all comes down to time.

This is starting to sound like a rant, and it's really not. I consider myself blessed to have a lot (I hope) to give (I know people who have nothing but time).

darren


(darren)
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I haven't written any original content (none / 0) (#55)
by Zarniwoop on Tue May 09, 2000 at 11:30:37 PM EST

> Writing original content is easy. Writing good content is hard

So isn't it just so amazing that every couple of days JonKatz puts out another highly informative, extensively researched, educational and entertaining article?

Isn't it?

Isn't it?

Bwahahaha!!!

Okay, so I'm not the biggest Katz fan. So sue me. I love original content, and I love an interesting article to discuss. Katz provides neither. He's a perfect example of what I really hope doesn't occur here. There is a huge difference between filler and original content. Thank you for recognizing that.

Of course, with the story moderation thing, drivel doesn't seem to get through that often in the first place :)

[ Parent ]

What actually crawls out of the trenches? (none / 0) (#50)
by Rasputin on Tue May 09, 2000 at 12:07:40 PM EST

I think that last line was maybe a little strong, but I understand the sentiment. I too started with more of a technological view of K5, but over time I've expanded my horizons. Having said that, what is culture from the trenches as opposed to culture from other possible sources? I don't know, so when in doubt I say so and vote 0 on the story.

Is my solution of voting 0 on questionable stories and letting others decide its value and relevance a good one? If you look at a vote of zero as a `not really sure` rather than a `don't care` than it makes a little more sense. The only problem is, if everybody votes `not really sure` then it hangs in limbo until somebody makes a decision. As I spend more time here I'll feel more qualified to make those judgments, until then...
Even if you win the rat race, you're still a rat.
[ Parent ]

Re: What actually crawls out of the trenches? (none / 0) (#51)
by rusty on Tue May 09, 2000 at 01:37:50 PM EST

If you have a strategy and you're consistent in it, that's all we can ask for. I do like it better when people are bold and decisive with their voting, but if you want to wait till you have more of a "feel" for things, that's fine too. The funny thing is, though, that the "feel" of the site itself stems entirely from the readers, so sooner or later, you're going to have to decide what *you* want it to be, and vote accordingly. More than just if everyone votes zero a story hangs-- if no one decides what the point of the site is, it doesn't have one. I set some basic guidelines, but I pretty much don't enforce them-- you do. The experiment continues. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Break away from Slashdot (3.00 / 1) (#30)
by Commienst on Mon May 08, 2000 at 10:49:53 PM EST

I think Kuro5hin should make a push to set itself apart from slashdot. Too often on this site people talk about slashdot and I am only making the matter worse by mentioning slashdot, but I am trying to make a point here. A lot of times when articles are posted we get "garbage" comments like this was posted on slashdot yesterday. I got news for you this is not slashdot. So what if some of the news articles here are the same as some of the ones on slashdot, will the world stop turning if it does? If you are here and visit slashdot often enough to know an article posted on Kuro5hin was already on slashdot two days ago then you must not be satisfied with slashdot as your one stop weblog or you would not be here.

Also stop refering to slashdot as the other site it is becoming an annoying cliche.

PS It would be better if instead of calling anonmyous posters "anonymous hero" we call them "unknown entity" that sounds much better and it would further help to break away from the slashdot cookie cutter mold.

Re: Break away from Slashdot (none / 0) (#35)
by cthulhu on Tue May 09, 2000 at 02:39:15 AM EST

Huzzah! I don't spend all my time digging through Slashdot before I read K5.

[ Parent ]
I don't do SlashDot. (none / 0) (#46)
by pwhysall on Tue May 09, 2000 at 10:44:40 AM EST

After the boring stories, the trolls, the Nathalie Portman Naked And Petrified, the Hot Grits, the slow site, the ego of Jon Katz...

No, I don't do SlashDot.
--
Peter
K5 Editors
I'm going to wager that the story keeps getting dumped because it is a steaming pile of badly formatted fool-meme.
CheeseBurgerBrown
[ Parent ]

Re: Break away from Slashdot (none / 0) (#38)
by Paul Dunne on Tue May 09, 2000 at 05:24:41 AM EST

> Also stop refering to slashdot as the other site it is becoming an
> annoying cliche.

But this cliché communicates an important truth about kuro5hin. Maybe one day kuro5hin will be so big and confident that it doesn't talk about other sites, but right now kuro5hin is to some degree at least still a response to what went wrong with slashdot. That doesn't exhaust what it is, but it is an important part of the definition.

> PS It would be better if instead of calling anonmyous posters
> "anonymous hero" we call them "unknown entity"

Or we could just get rid of them altogether. You want to post, you make an account. OK, I'll get back in my box now.
http://dunne.home.dhs.org/
[ Parent ]

Re: Break away from Slashdot (none / 0) (#45)
by dlc on Tue May 09, 2000 at 10:36:07 AM EST

    ...kuro5hin is to some degree at least still a response to what went wrong with slashdot.

Yes, but Kuro5hin has it's own personality. In many ways it is pretty similar to the Slashdot of early 1999 -- a forum where people can intelligently discuss stuff that interests them. The major downfall of Slashdot is that they post so few items (the submission queue always has a few hundred item in it); most of what gets posted nowadays I don't care about. But, if you don't like the news, go out and make your own, right? Post it here and let us vote on it -- you'll know for sure if it's something we want to hear about. Also, one of the main things "wrong" with Slashdot is the anonymous trolling. See the second part of this comment...

    Or we could just get rid of them altogether. You want to post, you make an account.OK, I'll get back in my box now.

Stay out of your box. This is a fantastic idea. Registering is free, it's not dependent upon a unique IP, personal information, or anything like that, so even AOL users can use it (all it requires is cookie support, and all the AOL-compatible browsers do that).

darren


(darren)
[ Parent ]

Re: Anonymous Posting (none / 0) (#52)
by rusty on Tue May 09, 2000 at 01:45:26 PM EST

So far, anonymous posting has been more good than harm, by a very wide margin. In fact, most of the (very rare) trolls I've dumped have actually come from user accounts, "anonymized" with the select box. If you read comments consistently, you'll find that the overwhelming majority of anonymous comments are perfectly interesting and on-topic. I don't think the time for de-anonymizing has come yet.

That said, if it does become a problem even approaching /.-like proportions, I won't hesitate to drop it. I'm not insanely overcommitted to anonymous posting. So far, there is no such problem, so I don't want to fix it yet. But rest assured that I will fix problems when we have them.

One possibility for preventing anonymous trolling is to create a comment voting system for anonymous comments-- AH posts a comment, it goes in a queue. X registered users vote for it, then it gets posted. This, I think, would filter 95% of the worst crap, and combine that with a "troll" option in comment ratings, and I think you'd have a pretty robust noise-filtering system.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Re: Anonymous Posting (none / 0) (#54)
by Paul Dunne on Tue May 09, 2000 at 05:36:53 PM EST

Fair point. So far, ACs (or AHs, rather) haven't been a problem here. I guess I am just prejudiced: both because they were an issue on /. when I was there, and then because I'm against the idea in principle. If you've got something to say, put your name on it, is my view. But then, it's so easy to create a de-facto anonymous account that that argument doesn't really hold water. We shall see. Hopefully, AHs will like the site and be moved to create an account, giving us the chance to associate user name "a" with useful comments x, y & z.

Voting on people's comments is an awful idea. I don't even like this rating stuff. Besides, it's too much work. Story moderation is good because it only requires a bit of effort, so most people will make that effort. Keeping a constant eye out for AH comments is rather more taxing, so you get a self-selecting group of people who may not be representative of the site as a whole. Of course, you can get round this in various ways, but by then you're well on the way to a /.-style moderation system -- and you don't want to go there.
http://dunne.home.dhs.org/
[ Parent ]

Re: So, ahhh... What's Going On? (3.00 / 1) (#33)
by Commienst on Mon May 08, 2000 at 11:50:21 PM EST

Someone on ebay is selling Metallica's Integrity on ebay. As of this posting the bid is at $10,000,000 Their integrity was not worth $10 the second after they cut their hair; scared they would get stereotyped as metalheads, those cowards.

Re: So, ahhh... What's Going On? (none / 0) (#37)
by Paul Dunne on Tue May 09, 2000 at 05:19:52 AM EST

> Linux Today de-uglifies! That's one way of putting it. It never looked too bad in lynx. But now in their wisdom the powers-that-be have decided that lynx users don't need to know which stories are new, so the little image next to each new story, that used to show up as "New ->" in a text browser, is gone. So now how do I know what's new and what's not?

Weren't they acquired recently? Oh, dear; well, I suppose I should be grateful it's not all done in Shockwave.
http://dunne.home.dhs.org/

Linux Today's new look (none / 0) (#44)
by dlc on Tue May 09, 2000 at 10:24:49 AM EST

This is great, and probably the biggest news up there. The Webmaster, Paul Ferris, has a pretty in-depth article about what is different, along with the history of the development of the site. The Triggers feature is a great one. You should all register for Your Linux Today, if you aren't already, and have a great time with it.

darren


(darren)

So, ahhh... What's Going On? | 61 comments (61 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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