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[P]
Peer Review of Articles

By eann in News
Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 02:31:54 PM EST
Tags: Kuro5hin.org (all tags)
Kuro5hin.org

Occasionally, I am asked to write articles for sites or publications other than K5. Usually, since my field of expertise is web stuff, these articles would fit in here conceptually. And I often wish for feedback from peers about the facts/opinions and how I support them with style and logic. However, these articles are usually not intended to generate much discussion. Before I post a draft here and get shot down, I want to get some opinions:


Is this the kind of content we want on K5? That is, will something asking for feedback about a draft of a general factual article (rather than an editorial about a recent controversial news event) ever make it through story moderation, or will it be deemed too boring, not newsworthy, etc., by the voting population?

Instead of clogging the main queue, should "peer review of article drafts" be a separate discussion section, with different guidelines for what gets through? Or, for that matter, should I just get Scoop and set up my own site for this?

If it were a separate site, would you actually use it (either as a reader or a writer)?

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Peer Review of Articles | 33 comments (33 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
It should be a seperate site, this ... (none / 0) (#8)
by SgtPepper on Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 11:28:27 AM EST

SgtPepper voted 1 on this story.

It should be a seperate site, this is a NEWS site, however a peer review site would be VERY usefull, a kind of web based RFC for general technology disucssions....hrm...

Re: It should be a seperate site, this ... (2.00 / 1) (#20)
by superfly on Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 03:38:08 PM EST

> this is a NEWS site

It is? There have been many articles here that were not news, but contained good information or generated good discussion.

[ Parent ]
Re: It should be a seperate site, this ... (none / 0) (#30)
by SgtPepper on Tue Jun 06, 2000 at 01:14:31 PM EST

Good point...however it just doesn't seem to....fit. Maybe it's the thought of there being alot of them. It's quite capable of generating alot of traffic in and of itself, i guess what i'm trying to say is K5 should be only one site, not try to be two. does that make any sense?

[ Parent ]
That would depend quite a bit on th... (none / 0) (#2)
by Pelorat on Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 11:32:33 AM EST

Pelorat voted 1 on this story.

That would depend quite a bit on the articles in question. If this submission makes it through, you should post one of them as a reply to it...

As for a separate site, again it depends on the articles.

Instead of clogging the main queue,... (4.00 / 1) (#16)
by maynard on Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 11:37:45 AM EST

maynard voted 1 on this story.

Instead of clogging the main queue, should "peer review of article drafts" be a separate discussion section, with different guidelines for what gets through? Or, for that matter, should I just get Scoop and set up my own site for this?
This seems like the most appropriate. Could Rusty clone the Moderate Submissions routine for a second "Review Drafts" section in Admin Tools? This could give folks working on a long piece (for K5 or not) an opportunity to hash out fact checking and style issues before submission. While I don't expect this to be used by those who write up a quick synopsis, review and links to some story published elsewhere, for those who write feature articles and reviews this affords a new level of distributed user editing. Whether most readers of K5 would make good editors... *cough*


Read The Proxies, a short crime thriller.
I don't think K5 is really the righ... (none / 0) (#10)
by Eimi on Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 11:48:22 AM EST

Eimi voted 1 on this story.

I don't think K5 is really the right place for that. My suggestion would be to get scoop and set it up yourself. But the announcement that such a place existed would certainly be K5-worthy, imho.

It'd probably get shot down, unless... (none / 0) (#6)
by inspire on Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 11:49:32 AM EST

inspire voted 1 on this story.

It'd probably get shot down, unless it was interesting and suits the ethos of kuro5hin. Thats how I feel about it anyway.
--
What is the helix?

Y'know, we could do this... ... (none / 0) (#9)
by warpeightbot on Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 11:50:24 AM EST

warpeightbot voted 1 on this story.

Y'know, we could do this...

(remembers the time on That Other Site where the readership flamed Jane's and ended up collectively writing an article for them)

(wonders how badly K5'ers will shoot this down, after seeing the score on the Be article)

I would not mind peer-reviewing art... (none / 0) (#18)
by louridas on Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 11:53:52 AM EST

louridas voted 1 on this story.

I would not mind peer-reviewing articles in K5; I see, however, two difficulties at present: (a) Neither the author nor the reviewer are blind to each other, and (b) as is the custom in the academia, reviewers should be acknowledged somehow for their work. Can these be taken care of?

I have no hard-and-fast rules about... (none / 0) (#1)
by rusty on Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 12:00:06 PM EST

rusty voted 1 on this story.

I have no hard-and-fast rules about what is appropriate. If I like it, I'll vote for it (and I encourage everyone else to do the same!). I'd be interested to see this kind of process go on here, especially if the article in question is informative or interesting in and of itself. One caveat, though, you probably don't want to do this if the site/publication you're writing for has "first serial rights" or exclusive publication rights to the piece. Also, I'd much rather see the whole article posted here than a link to your homepage where it's up, or whatever. But in general, sure, give us a try. :-)

____
Not the real rusty

Re: I have no hard-and-fast rules about... (none / 0) (#22)
by feline on Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 06:00:05 PM EST

"If I like it, I'll vote for it (and I encourage everyone else to do the same!)."

You'll "encourage" everyone else to vote for it? ;p
------------------------------------------

'Hello sir, you don't look like someone who satisfies his wife.'
[ Parent ]

Re: I have no hard-and-fast rules about... (none / 0) (#24)
by rusty on Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 06:12:25 PM EST

No! Slight grammatical hint-- if I would encourage everyone to vote for it, the sentence would read "If I like it, I'll vote for it (and I'll encourage everyone else to do the same!)."

As it is, it parses to "I encourage everyone else to vote for what they like, without too much regard to what they think the 'rules' say they should vote for." Basically, don't get too wrapped up in "we don't like this" or "we like that", just vote for what you want to see.

And yes, I caught the ;P, I just thought I'd clarify. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Re: I have no hard-and-fast rules about... (none / 0) (#27)
by feline on Tue Jun 06, 2000 at 02:51:51 AM EST

I have just been missing making smart-assed comments in #kuro5hin and needed to get my fix :)
------------------------------------------

'Hello sir, you don't look like someone who satisfies his wife.'
[ Parent ]

Soapbox (none / 0) (#28)
by rusty on Tue Jun 06, 2000 at 03:15:44 AM EST

Heh. I know. I co-opted your smartass comment to get on my (little) soapbox about voting "policies" (or lack thereof), which occasionally seem to cause confusion. People sometimes seem to vote for what they think they "should" be voting for, instead of what they just like. Not that this has been an issue recently, though, you just provided a convenient segue. Mark this all OT and move along, then. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Re: Soapbox (none / 0) (#31)
by feline on Tue Jun 06, 2000 at 05:44:32 PM EST

"Heh. I know. I co-opted your smartass comment to get on my (little) soapbox about voting..."

Is co-opted a fancy phrase meaning that you used me?!?!?!
------------------------------------------

'Hello sir, you don't look like someone who satisfies his wife.'
[ Parent ]

Re: Soapbox (none / 0) (#32)
by rusty on Tue Jun 06, 2000 at 05:45:33 PM EST

I used you, then threw you away like the cardboard box your microwave burrito came in. That's life in the Big City, baby.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Re: Soapbox (none / 0) (#33)
by feline on Tue Jun 06, 2000 at 05:49:37 PM EST

Okay, that's enough, you spend too much time on your user-info page looking for replies, I posted that comment about two minutes before you posted this bugger.

I'm beginning to suspect your part of the shadow government I mentioned earlier...
------------------------------------------

'Hello sir, you don't look like someone who satisfies his wife.'
[ Parent ]

I like the idea of a spearate discu... (none / 0) (#5)
by marlowe on Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 12:02:56 PM EST

marlowe voted 1 on this story.

I like the idea of a spearate discussion section.
-- The Americans are the Jews of the 21st century. Only we won't go as quietly to the gas chambers. --

Something that should be thrashed o... (none / 0) (#14)
by genehack on Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 12:22:20 PM EST

genehack voted 1 on this story.

Something that should be thrashed out, even though I get the feeling the last option is the one people will aggitate for. 8^)=

If I found your articles interestin... (none / 0) (#4)
by Neuromancer on Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 12:23:06 PM EST

Neuromancer voted 1 on this story.

If I found your articles interesting and educational, I'd read them.

I like the idea of a perr-review se... (none / 0) (#7)
by dlc on Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 12:23:13 PM EST

dlc voted 1 on this story.

I like the idea of a perr-review section (or site!) for technical articles. It would be great to have it open for anyone (or registered users) to be able to post their own stuff and have it peer-reviewed, before it got sent to a "real" editor (it's intended editor).

I would be worried about unscrupulous entities trolling such a site/section/page for ideas to steal, however.


(darren)

I don't see a problem with that, I ... (none / 0) (#13)
by slycer on Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 12:59:23 PM EST

slycer voted 0 on this story.

I don't see a problem with that, I look at it this way, sneak previews of actual factual articles :-)

I definitely think this is a topic ... (none / 0) (#15)
by El Volio on Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 01:36:46 PM EST

El Volio voted 1 on this story.

I definitely think this is a topic worthy of general discusion on k5. I'm not taking a position on the issue itself, but that the issue should be posted and discussed.

I (for one) want content that is mo... (none / 0) (#12)
by ishbak on Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 02:07:39 PM EST

ishbak voted -1 on this story.

I (for one) want content that is more in essay format than just a quick "this is the way it is" blurb. I like articles that provide a viewpoint and then provide the neccessary support and background for that view. I see kuro5hin as less of a straight up news site and more of a probing into the background and underlying framework of the matter at hand.

"Is this the kind of content we wan... (none / 0) (#17)
by kefaa on Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 02:21:27 PM EST

kefaa voted 1 on this story.

"Is this the kind of content we want on K5? That is, will something asking for feedback about a draft of a general factual article (rather than an editorial about a recent controversial news event) ever make it through story moderation, or will it be deemed too boring, not newsworthy, etc., by the voting population? " This would appear to be exactly what we would like. Let's face it, some of the people here and on /. are very good writers. Helping in the processes seems to be the "open" thing to do. "Instead of clogging the main queue, should "peer review of article drafts" be a separate discussion section, with different guidelines for what gets through? Or, for that matter, should I just get Scoop and set up my own site for this? " A different area may be helpful so that some type of versioning could be applied and then re-reviewed(?). "If it were a separate site, would you actually use it (either as a reader or a writer)? " No need from my viewpoint. Keep it here, keep it current, keep it interesting to someone and you will get what you appear to be looking for.

> should I just get Scoop and set u... (none / 0) (#11)
by Greyjack on Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 02:29:04 PM EST

Greyjack voted -1 on this story.

> should I just get Scoop and set up my own site for this? Yes.

--
Here is my philosophy: Everything changes (the word "everything" has just changed as the word "change" has: it now means "no change") --Ron Padgett


Yes; perhaps not here, but somewher... (none / 0) (#3)
by alisdair on Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 02:31:54 PM EST

alisdair voted 1 on this story.

Yes; perhaps not here, but somewhere.

I say "Go For It" (none / 0) (#19)
by error 404 on Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 03:12:07 PM EST

That's what story moderation is for.

If it's boring or off topic, we'll just shoot it down. With, as far as I know, no consequences to you as long as you have a reasonable hope of it being appropriate. I think Rusty might not be real nice to you in the future if you post a story on how to Make Money Fast by sending dollar bills to David Rhodes.

I can't see how we can come up with a general rule ahead of time without seeing what you have in mind. One article might be cool, another might not. Let us make the call...

I would suggest, though, that you mention in the story what you plan to do, and that you treat those who provide good information with the appropriate courtesy.

In fact, I'm thinking of an article, and I think I might try posting it here so that people smarter than me can find my mistakes.

..................................
Electrical banana is bound to be the very next phase
- Donovan

Seems reasonable (3.00 / 1) (#21)
by Rasputin on Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 04:32:16 PM EST

First, from the K5 FAQ...

"If you have a feature or story that you think needs editorial work before you want to put your name on it, send it to us at editors@kuro5hin.org and we'll be glad to go over it with you. We're nice people, really! :-)"

Clearly, Rusty had something of the sort you're asking about in mind at some point ;)

If you're looking for editorial or content comments, as long as you make that clear in the intro to the story, I would guess that it would generate at least as much discussion as some of the MLP submissions we see around here. Especially since many of those submissions are pointing at articles much like I would guess you're proposing. We get to cut out the middle man.
Even if you win the rat race, you're still a rat.

Re: Seems reasonable (none / 0) (#23)
by rusty on Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 06:07:06 PM EST

I think the question is a little different from the recommendation in the FAQ. The editors email is for proofing and grammar, really. We don't tend to make suggestions about content, just form. Eann is proposing a "peer review" process, where he (or anyone) posts an article specifically to get the expert opinions of readers who might have knowlege of the subject area, in order to polish the content and knowledgeability of the article.

Personally I think it would be very cool, since it would get more stuff posted here, and also raise the overall clue level of articles elsewhere (as some of them would have been reviewed by us before publication). I would dig this kind of thing. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

I think it's a good idea. (none / 0) (#25)
by dto on Mon Jun 05, 2000 at 07:38:14 PM EST

As a writer of articles, free software (for GNU) and articles about software :-), I would definitely use such a service. Peer review works wonders for open software; why not writing?

I would also participate as a reviewer of articles, which I'm sure would also be very educational.

As for making it a separate site, I'm not sure. Perhaps "reviews.kuro5hin.org"? It need not be a wholly separate domain, but I think it might be a good idea to at least separate "writing for peer review" sections from general news, discussion, and "finished" articles.
--- @@@ dto@gnu.org @@@ GNU OCTAL @@@ http://www.gnu.org/software/octal

Give it a whirl (none / 0) (#26)
by FlinkDelDinky on Tue Jun 06, 2000 at 01:08:47 AM EST

eann, I think you should just try it. We don't require a seperate 'area'. Let K5 as an entity decide what it is. If K5 like it, great. If not, that's fine too and you have the option to try again.

I like the idea (none / 0) (#29)
by Anonymous 242 on Tue Jun 06, 2000 at 09:44:37 AM EST

Speaking as someone who occasionally writes essays and articles, I find the hardest part being finding people that are willing to speak up when my writing sucks. Its even harder to find people that will say my work sucks and are then willing to go on in detail and point out what specifically sucks and why it sucks.

I think I agree with those that wonder if Kuro5hin is perhaps not the appropriate place for peer review, but I would love to see an Open Review project along the lines of the Open Law and Free Software movements. I especially hope that if someone starts something like this, that it is not restricted to things geek. Most of my writing is along sociological or philosophical lines (especailly the latter). For example the current articles I'm working on are an analysis of the parts of an offer and an exposition of the darkness I carry around in my heart. I'm not sure that those topics would be appropos for K5.

If such a site existed, I would likely both post articles for review and offer thoughtful critique of articles that were posted, assuming the site wasn't tech only and even then I would likely offer critique.



Peer Review of Articles | 33 comments (33 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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