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Gamer Beware

By Eric_ in News
Wed Jul 19, 2000 at 06:51:39 PM EST
Tags: Culture (all tags)
Culture

It looks like ASUS is releasing drivers for their new V7700 card, which includes tools that will enable gamers to cheat! The two new tools are a wire frame mode, and a transparent texture mode, both of which can be setup to use hotkeys. What this means is that you will be able to see your enemy through walls and get the jump on him, or in some cases shoot through the walls to get your unfair frag. Now here is the scary part. The drivers are already circulating on the net and work with any NVIDIA card. So is the end of 1st person shooters and 3d games? Here are some screen shots of the driver in action.


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Gamer Beware | 29 comments (21 topical, 8 editorial, 0 hidden)
Why would they want to do this? (3.00 / 5) (#5)
by bags on Wed Jul 19, 2000 at 06:36:08 PM EST

Why would ASUS want to do this? "Never compete in the 3D games with anyone who has an ASUS video card. Because the only result is to loose" , says the ASUS guy Jonathan Tsang. A possible outcome: people with ASUS cards won't be able to participate in multiplayer games anymore, because people without ASUS cards will write software to exclude them. People with those cards will thus have a disadvantage, and ditch the cards, which isn't good for ASUS.
The question that leaps to mind: what kind of warped marketing person would come up with this?

Its more of a Driver issue (none / 0) (#9)
by delmoi on Wed Jul 19, 2000 at 06:55:26 PM EST

Theoreticaly, games could look for the driver string. But most gaming cards these days are almost exactly the same; they'll work with any set of drivers for the same chip. While game writers could make things more difficult (the most obvious would be disabling the hot-key combo that lets you switch to wireframe...) They would never be able to make things imposible.

And I don't see why people shouldn't be allowed to display data on their own computers in whatever manner they want.
--
"'argumentation' is not a word, idiot." -- thelizman
[ Parent ]
Re: Its more of a Driver issue (4.30 / 3) (#11)
by kraant on Wed Jul 19, 2000 at 07:37:58 PM EST

Hrrrrm so using those drivers clipping doesn't work

If you felt like it you could have a hidden amazingly complex artifact preferably that would break the card if it tried to display it and hide it behind walls

Voila instant countermeasure :)
--
"kraant, open source guru" -- tumeric
Never In Our Names...
[ Parent ]

open source games!!! (2.50 / 2) (#7)
by eMBee on Wed Jul 19, 2000 at 06:43:31 PM EST

this is excellent!!!
remember the discussions (on slashdot) about people not wanting to open source because you could hack the clients to cheat?
with this you don't need to hack the client anymore.
thus, if you want to avoid that people cheat, then you have to write games in a way that only gives data to the client that the client is allowed to know about, which is exactly the same that people have said, who favoured open source games...

greetings, eMBee.
--
Gnu is Not Unix / Linux Is Not UniX

I'm pissed (3.30 / 3) (#12)
by wildmage on Wed Jul 19, 2000 at 07:52:25 PM EST

I'm pissed at Asus.

I'm not mad because someone released a cheat program. I accept the fact that such things are inevitable in a world of information sharing and resources.

I am mad that a Video Card manufacturer created this program. It sends a message to the gaming community, "Buy our hardware or you will LOSE."

I own an Asus V7700 and I feel really betrayed. Honestly I would return it if I hadn't bought it on the internet and spent 3 weeks fine tuning it to my linux system.

Here's the clip from RivaStation because I don't know where the original PR is:

Taiwan, Taipei July 18, 2000: ASUSTeK Computer, Inc. announces its new secrete weapon for AGP-V7700 and AGP-V7100 series graphics cards - the 3D SeeThrough TM technologies. "ASUS always provides the best value for our customers." said Jonathan Tsang, vice president of marketing and sales division of ASUSTeK Computer Inc. "The ASUS 3D SeeThrough TM technologies are developed for users to be a constant winner in the adventure or action 3D games. There are three special weapons for ASUS VGA cards' users - Transparent View, Wireframe View, and Extra Light. If you do not have an ASUS VGA card - be careful! Never compete in the 3D games with anyone who has an ASUS VGA card. Because the only result is to loose."


Good lord! How the hell did this guy get to be vice president of marketing? I'm more appalled than enthralled. Plus his attempt at drama makes me wanna kick his ass.

Taking a step back for a second, I can see how this approach might work. Your average young Joe Gamer will think to himself, "The Asus card lets me cheat in DeathMatch? Cool, lets get that one!" On the other hand I can foresee a terrible backlash from the gaming community directed at Asus. I'm not sure which force will be stronger.

Either this is a calculated gamble by Asus or an incredibly stupid move in lower management. I tend to think its the former.

Anyone else have insight?

--Wildmage

-------------
Jacob Everist
Memoirs of a Mad Scientist
Near-Earth Asteroid Mining

Re: I'm pissed (4.70 / 3) (#13)
by Therac-25 on Wed Jul 19, 2000 at 08:02:39 PM EST

Yeah.

It's a fake.

Note how *no* other news outlet has anything other than links back to that guy's page.

No statement from ASUS anywhere else, despite this being up all day.

Note how *both* games in which he demonstrates the 'wireframe' hack are using the Q3 engine - which, coincidentally, has a 'wireframe' console variable which you can set (if cheats are enabled). I wouldn't be surprised if you examined the games used in the other screenshots, you would find similar capabilites with relation to thier screenshots in them.

Note how he's doing his best to draw rabid gamers and ex-gamers to his site.

This just screams 'page hit scam'.


--
"If there's one thing you can say about mankind / There's nothing kind about man."
[ Parent ]
Re: I'm pissed (none / 0) (#14)
by Therac-25 on Wed Jul 19, 2000 at 08:04:24 PM EST


Oh, yeah - one more thing.

If that 'driver dialog box' thang he has up there doesn't just scream '3 minutes in VB', I don't know what does.


--
"If there's one thing you can say about mankind / There's nothing kind about man."
[ Parent ]
Re: I'm pissed (none / 0) (#28)
by Anonymous Hero on Thu Jul 20, 2000 at 01:56:12 PM EST

More like 30 seconds in Photoshop. :)

[ Parent ]
OT, but I have a ? for you (none / 0) (#15)
by Skippy on Wed Jul 19, 2000 at 08:50:08 PM EST

Are you the Therac-25 who wrote all those Quake haiku?
# I am now finished talking out my ass about things that I am not qualified to discuss. #
[ Parent ]
Re: OT, but I have a ? for you (none / 0) (#20)
by Therac-25 on Wed Jul 19, 2000 at 10:28:18 PM EST

Yeah, that would be me. I was bored for a few days last year =)
--
"If there's one thing you can say about mankind / There's nothing kind about man."
[ Parent ]
Re: I'm pissed (none / 0) (#16)
by Eric_ on Wed Jul 19, 2000 at 09:10:20 PM EST

I'm not the owner of the site nor do I endorse that site in any way shape or form. I used that site as another means to make sure the information is that I posted is reliable.

And if you would like to discuss this further I can and will be in the IRC channel :)

"Pico When I'm Drunk Vi When I'm Sober"
[ Parent ]
Re: I'm pissed (none / 0) (#21)
by Therac-25 on Wed Jul 19, 2000 at 10:50:38 PM EST


I don't do IRC right now (as I'm on Work's network right now, and they Don't Like that...), but I'm not sure what you mean. Do you have any other confirmation? The drivers themselves? Another site with the press release that wasn't copied off of there? Something on ASUS site indicating that this is from them?

Everyone seems to be just taking this guy's word for it...
--
"If there's one thing you can say about mankind / There's nothing kind about man."
[ Parent ]
Re: I'm pissed (4.00 / 1) (#19)
by aragorn on Wed Jul 19, 2000 at 10:12:57 PM EST

< rant >
You know, whether it's a fake or it isn't, I can't see a good reason to be upset about this. The -only- possible thing I could see people having issues with is others using this in multi-player games. In such cases, all you have to do is refer back to one of those basic truths that we all learned about in grade school "don't play with him. he's a cheater." As for people who claim this will ruin single player mode or single player games, I can only wonder if they're truly so feeble minded and weak-willed that they can't decide whether or not to use an available cheat.

I think the worst part about people being upset by this sort of thing is that it's just another example of our society trying to lay the blame for every little thing on someone else (preferably a large company). Take some responsibility.
< /rant >

[ Parent ]

Re: I'm pissed (none / 0) (#23)
by barooo on Thu Jul 20, 2000 at 09:36:58 AM EST

And he misspelled "lose". I guess they'll let anyone be a VP these days. Perhaps I should send my resume around...
--
[G. W. Bush makes] one long for the flashy showmanship of Calvin Coolidge, the easy eloquence of Dwight D. Eisenhower, the simple honesty of Richard Nixon.
P. M. Carpenter
[ Parent ]
I now think its fake (4.50 / 2) (#17)
by wildmage on Wed Jul 19, 2000 at 10:06:50 PM EST

Okay now that I've had a chance to think for a while and read responses to my post down below, I think there is some strong evidence that this is fake after all.

Check out this press release in May on Asus' page. The top paragraph is structured almost identically to the one I posted down below. Jonathan Tsang articulates much better in that release then he does in the one in question.

I'm tending to believe that this could be a scam now.

Yet another lesson in gullibility :P

--Wildmage

-------------
Jacob Everist
Memoirs of a Mad Scientist
Near-Earth Asteroid Mining

More evidence -- not fake after all (none / 0) (#29)
by mbrubeck on Fri Jul 21, 2000 at 02:25:22 AM EST

Adding to the confusion, this Got Apex? interview with ASUS's Raymond Chen seems to show that the drivers are real.

In the interview, the ASUS rep promises to back off on the cheat features at least for a while. Still, a Pandora's box has been opened here. Not only will the ASUS drivers be hard to supress (if they were in fact leaked), but now that the idea is out, others are sure to duplicate and expand upon it.

[ Parent ]

This is what visibility engines are for (4.00 / 2) (#18)
by fluffy grue on Wed Jul 19, 2000 at 10:07:23 PM EST

Proper 3D engines cull out the stuff which isn't visible so that it doesn't get rendered to begin with. In proper engines with decent visilibility systems, this is a non-issue.
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]

Visibility engines (none / 0) (#22)
by squigly on Thu Jul 20, 2000 at 04:08:18 AM EST

Proper engines tend to do a half hearted attempt to cull invisible polygons. You can easily throw out huge swathes of polys using trees and bounding boxes/spheres, but looking at individual polygons isn't really worth the effort, since this will take longer than drawing the thing. Typically, a game will draw 2-3 times as much as is actually seen.

I do have a feeling though that most of the actual enemies are going to be eliminated at the early stages though, so I guess your point still stands.

--
People who sig other people have nothing intelligent to say for themselves - anonimouse
[ Parent ]
Re: Visibility engines (none / 0) (#25)
by fluffy grue on Thu Jul 20, 2000 at 11:04:11 AM EST

But only cells which have some visibility from the current cell are rendered. Even in BSPs, the cells tend to be rather small. Yeah, 2-3 times what's visible is drawn, but most of it isn't that far off from what's visible anyway. There's already plenty of cheats which people use to get around that anyway (such as changing the player models to have HUGE lines going through them so that if they're in a potentially-visible cell the player will be visible).

I guess what I'm saying is that the wireframe stuff only leads to a little easier way of seeing where people are... oh, and for what it's worth, it's not that easy to play FPSes with wireframes since it's quite easy to get disoriented anyway, since you no longer have the perfect occlusion or the texturing as a decent frame of reference.
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

Doesn't matter. (3.00 / 1) (#24)
by 3than on Thu Jul 20, 2000 at 10:06:50 AM EST

This really does not matter. I'm sorry. When competition matters, no one will be using these drivers...and I for one would like to see someone try to use the transparent ones for an advantage. All that transparency is going to slow down your fps significantly, which is probably a bigger disadvantage than seeing your opponent is an advantage.
I don't know about you, but when I'm playing a game of Quake, I almost always know where my opponent is; the real issue is figuring out where he's going to go and shooting him before he gets there. This transparent/wireframe bullshit isn't going to help me one bit. Check out q3 dm17-you can see your opponent almost everywhere. These drivers are going to do squat there.
These are just some fluffy bs drivers. It's not going to do any harm to the gaming community; I'd like to see someone live down the shame of trying to use them and getting caught.


Ummm.... (none / 0) (#27)
by chicmome on Thu Jul 20, 2000 at 01:01:28 PM EST

Not being much of a gamer myself I can't comment too much on this, but stating that these drivers will allow you to shoot through walls sounds entirely bogus. I mean the primary responsibility of a vid card is to render as much stuff as fast as it can. The responsibility of the drivers are to tell the vid card what to render. The game engine is responsible for tracking artillery, player movement, collisions, etc. Meaning that even if you can see through walls -- which really depends on what the engine passes the drivers, and I don't know much about that -- you can't shoot through them. Chicmome

Gamer Beware | 29 comments (21 topical, 8 editorial, 0 hidden)
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