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[P]
Free Willy - Humane Success, Misnomer, or Tasty Dinner?

By imrdkl in News
Mon May 26, 2003 at 04:12:11 PM EST
Tags: Food (all tags)
Food

Many will know the story of Keiko the Killer Whale. He was born in 1977, captured, trained, and sold to several aquatic parks before starring in three hit movies in the US during the the early 1990s, rescued from another aquatic park in 1996, "untrained" beginning in 1997, and finally released back into the wild in 1998, with several years of supervised adjustment to follow. Finally in 2002, and much to the relief and delight of his followers, Keiko started hanging out with a packs of killer whales off the coast of Iceland, where he had been living since being released, and even eating live fish. Eventually he swam with the pack out to sea, in a much heralded success. However, just two months later, Keiko apparently got lonely for human companionship again. He swam into Skølvik fjord on the west coast of Norway - a small Scandinavian country where they enjoy eating whale meat.

The only question that seemed to remain then was whether Keiko should be boiled, or fried?


Much to the relief of millions of Americans, both young and old, the Norwegians somewhat reluctantly provided a home for Keiko - albeit without joining his fan club en masse. Initially it seemed he might even become self-sufficient again as a tourist attraction, but that possibility was deep-sixed after thousands of people showed up to visit him last year. The tourists came much to the delight of the residents of Halsa, a nearby fishing village, but very much to the chagrin of Keiko's devoted staff - who remain determined that he continue on his path to freedom (if not self-sufficiency). So, Keiko was soon relocated to a more protected location on the Norwegian coast, where he's reported to be lonely and friendless, due to the fact that the anticipated packs of killer whales didn't show up there this year. Nevertheless, if you do come to visit him at his new secluded home, there's to be no shouting, no waving, no petting or swimming, and preferably no smiling — although this may simply be local tradition at work.

It's become clear that a "free Willy" is something of a misnomer. Nine months in relative isolation on the Norwegian coast has contributed nothing to making Keiko wild again, and many experts now agree that he simply could not survive without constant oversight, and that he will always prefer humans to whales. The 20 million dollar project to return Keiko to the wild now seems to have been a waste, even if the people who look after him report that they will be happy to take care of him for the rest of his "natural" life. A case in point - as part of his "untraining", Keiko began to eat live Herring in August of 1997, but now he's back to being hand fed fresh Norwegian Herring to the tune of $2000 a month. His staff, in the interview mentioned below, report that they prefer to give him only "good quality" Herring as well, which has a better taste.

Just yesterday, a local newspaper published an interview with David Phillips, the director of the Free Willy Foundation, who indicates that Keiko is in Norway to stay, even though his maintenance and support have cost more than a million Norwegian kroner (~ $150,000), just since arriving last September. And while he does seem to have some rather expensive tastes, the team supporting Keiko is not too shy to ask for donations from the local population. They need a new support boat (thank you), and have started up yet another website on his behalf, this one written in Norwegian, where the whale-loving populace can now make donations. SMS donations via GSM mobile phones are also available for the Norwegian whale-lover on the go. And of course, those who don't read Norwegian can still help Feed Willy on his American Homepage, where you can even send a thank-you note to the Norwegian Ambassador in the US, for making him a welcome guest, and not a tasty dinner.

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Poll
Best for Keiko?
o Continue to care for him, wherever he may roam 14%
o Let him sink or swim on his own 27%
o Use him (again) as a profit-making tourist attraction 20%
o Harpoon him and cook him for dinner 36%

Votes: 129
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o three
o hit
o movies
o released back into the wild
o hanging out
o had been living
o swam with the pack
o swam into Skølvik fjord
o boiled, or fried
o provided a home
o protected location
o local tradition
o been a waste
o hand fed
o interview
o Free Willy Foundation
o yet another website
o American Homepage
o Also by imrdkl


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Free Willy - Humane Success, Misnomer, or Tasty Dinner? | 61 comments (58 topical, 3 editorial, 0 hidden)
the lesson (4.53 / 15) (#1)
by turmeric on Mon May 26, 2003 at 06:59:23 AM EST

enjoy nature in its element. dont force it into cages and shows for your amusement.

Thank you captain planet!!! (3.00 / 8) (#5)
by President Saddam on Mon May 26, 2003 at 09:32:31 AM EST


---
Allah Akbar
[ Parent ]

On the other hand... (4.66 / 3) (#18)
by gilrain on Mon May 26, 2003 at 12:57:12 PM EST

People typically have a hard time respecting that which they cannot see. Exposure to animals in the form of zoos and animal parks has long served as a way to educate the common man about the plight of animals. Take a kid to a zoo for a day -- they'll absorb the information and be spouting about saving animals for days.

I believe we're currently moving in the right direction -- away from crowded zoos and towards roomy wildlife refuges, where tourists can still see the animals, albeit in a more prohibitively expensive manner.

There is no doubt that animal captivity has been useful in spreading awareness. It serves to tell Bob Robertson in his city apartment: these are the beautiful animals.

[ Parent ]

Amen, (2.00 / 2) (#20)
by minerboy on Mon May 26, 2003 at 01:36:12 PM EST

I can't believe I agree with you, but I do. You never understand an animal until you see it in its element. If you don't believe me, wait until you encounter a bear in the wild.



[ Parent ]
Oh, so that was understanding! (4.00 / 5) (#29)
by fn0rd on Mon May 26, 2003 at 03:47:06 PM EST

And I thought that was being scared shitless. I'm glad to know I understand bears now :)

--------------------------------------------------------------
This fatwa brought to you by the Agnostic Jihad
Death to the fidels!

[ Parent ]
I encountered a bear in the wild once (3.50 / 4) (#34)
by aonifer on Tue May 27, 2003 at 12:45:51 AM EST

It kept going on about my "picanic basket".

So I shot it.  Stupid bear.

[ Parent ]

The other lesson (4.50 / 4) (#25)
by godix on Mon May 26, 2003 at 02:35:15 PM EST

Once nature is forced into cages and shown for amusement don't try to set it free.


"A disobedient dog is almost as bad as a disobedient girlfriend or wife."
- A Proud American
[ Parent ]
The real lesson (4.80 / 5) (#31)
by grouse on Mon May 26, 2003 at 07:26:11 PM EST

If they had never held Keiko in captivity to begin with, maybe we would have been spared the horrible massacre of Saddam Hussein gassing his own people.

You sad bastard!

"Grouse please don't take this the wrong way... To be quite frank, you are throwing my inner Chi out of its harmonious balance with nature." -- Tex Bigballs
[ Parent ]

Interesting Story... (3.42 / 7) (#2)
by cluke on Mon May 26, 2003 at 07:13:37 AM EST

This is interesting, as much for what it tells us about people as what it tells us about killer whales. Looks like Keiko didn't want to be freed! But it had to be done to ease the consciences of people with nothing better to worry about.

They should've (4.55 / 9) (#3)
by mithrandir on Mon May 26, 2003 at 08:16:17 AM EST

Left him alone in the first place. Why mess with nature? Once a tourist attraction, the whale should have been kept in captivity. Why release him if he obviously is not used to being free? This whole thing is just a scam to make more money.

wojpob at wikipedia - contribute your knowledge
Ahh, I wish it was... (4.66 / 3) (#27)
by joto on Mon May 26, 2003 at 02:52:42 PM EST

But exactly who is getting rich by having someone feed a dumb whale in some remote fjord, when both the whale itself, and thousands of movie fans would be much happier if it lived in a large pool doing what it had already done most of it's life?

[ Parent ]
This just goes to prove ... (3.85 / 7) (#4)
by kaemaril on Mon May 26, 2003 at 09:13:22 AM EST

... how smart whales are. Keiko obviously knew he was onto a good thing. I'm just surprised he didn't clue in a few other whales so they could all share the good life.


Why, yes, I am being sarcastic. Why do you ask?


I think the real question here is... (4.50 / 8) (#6)
by moho on Mon May 26, 2003 at 09:41:31 AM EST

Why did they give Keiko a girl's name?

Make Keiko a citizen. (3.83 / 6) (#8)
by antizeus on Mon May 26, 2003 at 10:14:16 AM EST

I think it's time to push the envelope in terms of what sort of life forms may be considered citizens of nations.

Certainly life forms that prove to be intelligent (beyond some point which will be agonizingly difficult to determine) should be considered for citizenship. We'll probably need to do this anyway when the extraterrestrials start openly integrating into human societies.

Also, it may be adventageous to bestow citizenship on less intelligent life forms if they are generally beloved. Example may include certain ancient sequoia trees, and animals who hold offices such as Lassie and Smokey The Bear.

I think Keiko can fit into at least the latter category.
-- $SIGNATURE

Hmmm... (3.83 / 6) (#16)
by kaemaril on Mon May 26, 2003 at 12:40:25 PM EST

Also, it may be advantageous to bestow citizenship on less intelligent life forms if they are generally beloved

I'm sure there's a George W. Bush gag in there somewhere, if only I could see it...


Why, yes, I am being sarcastic. Why do you ask?


[ Parent ]
Intelligent? (3.80 / 5) (#24)
by godix on Mon May 26, 2003 at 02:30:29 PM EST

Certainly life forms that prove to be intelligent

He can't feed himself and he can't live without constant supervision. Exactly how intelligent do you think he is?

On the other hand, I could say the exact same thing about many teenagers I know and they're considered citizens. You may have a point here.....


"A disobedient dog is almost as bad as a disobedient girlfriend or wife."
- A Proud American
[ Parent ]

Also, babies. (n/t) (4.00 / 1) (#32)
by DeepOmega on Mon May 26, 2003 at 08:03:31 PM EST


Peace and much love...
[ Parent ]

yes, that will certainly help... (4.20 / 5) (#26)
by joto on Mon May 26, 2003 at 02:44:40 PM EST

I think it's time to push the envelope in terms of what sort of life forms may be considered citizens of nations.

Good for you, which envelope do you want to push...?

Certainly life forms that prove to be intelligent (beyond some point which will be agonizingly difficult to determine) should be considered for citizenship.

The traditional view is to let this be based upon being part of the human species, and parents nationality. We certainly don't require any intelligence tests for becoming a citizen today, so why in the future? Just face it, whales do not want to become citizens, they are quite happy in the ocean, and even if they wished to live in some city apartment, they have so far been completely unable to express a wish to do so, so I wouldn't worry...

We'll probably need to do this anyway when the extraterrestrials start openly integrating into human societies.

Oh yes, the aliens, right, right! Maybe you should watch a little bit less scifi-channel, and worry a bit more about the real world. Now, I am not saying that there is absolutely no chance that "the aliens" will come to earth, but

  1. What makes you think they exist at all? There are good reasons to believe that once a species get the ability to colonize other starsystems, the galaxy will be colonized at speeds mostly decided by their propulsion systems. Since we haven't seen them yet, as strange as it sounds (even to me), that's a pretty good argument for us being the first intelligent lifeform in our galaxy.
  2. Ignoring that, what makes you think they will want to live on this planet at all? Maybe they prefer entirely different living conditions. After all, they are aliens, and could be much more different from us than a squid, sulfur-bacteria, or ringworm is.
  3. What makes you think they should come now, and not in some of the millions of years past, in which the earth also was habitable. It would make one hell of a timing if they should show up just at the point where they became popular in pop-culture.
  4. What makes you think they would even care about us. After all, if they are hyperintelligent alien life-forms, they might look at us like we look at e.g. ants, and not care much about us at all.
  5. What makes you think they will be nice to us, instead of simply treating us as some kind of pest-control problem, as we treat, say, rats? Or wild dogs?
  6. And finally, if they were so similar to us that contact with them would be somewhat meaningful, what makes you think this could become peaceful. After all, our own expansion on new continents have rarely resulted in happy co-existence among old and new inhabitants.
  7. In any case, considering that the aliens had the technology and resources to cross interstellar space just to find a nice beach resort somewhere on earth, it would be us who wanted to become an alien citizen, not the other way around.

Also, it may be adventageous to bestow citizenship on less intelligent life forms if they are generally beloved. Example may include certain ancient sequoia trees, and animals who hold offices such as Lassie and Smokey The Bear.

In what way would that be advantageous? Do you want to have someone sit and fill out some tree's tax-return form? Exactly what do you want to achieve? Do you think Lassie (not that there ever was just one "Lassie") would become more happy, if it became a "citizen". Exactly what would you think it would have helped Keiko, if it had an american passport, and needed to go through customs to get to Norway?

[ Parent ]

Help what? (1.50 / 2) (#45)
by antizeus on Tue May 27, 2003 at 11:07:48 AM EST

Are you purposefully trying to draw me into a flame war? If you are, then is this the best forum for such a thing? If you're not, then perhaps you need to chill out.
-- $SIGNATURE
[ Parent ]
nah... (none / 0) (#56)
by joto on Thu May 29, 2003 at 05:47:25 AM EST

Nah, czth killed it with his excellent remarks, don't you think?

[ Parent ]
The aliens (5.00 / 2) (#54)
by czth on Wed May 28, 2003 at 12:06:36 AM EST

2. Ignoring that, what makes you think they will want to live on this planet at all? Maybe they prefer entirely different living conditions. After all, they are aliens, and could be much more different from us than a squid, sulfur-bacteria, or ringworm is.

Dude, I've seen Star Trek, you can't fool me, all aliens are humanoid with coloured skins and growths on their faces.

3. What makes you think they should come now, and not in some of the millions of years past, in which the earth also was habitable. It would make one hell of a timing if they should show up just at the point where they became popular in pop-culture.

BUT... what if they're mere hours away?

5. What makes you think they will be nice to us, instead of simply treating us as some kind of pest-control problem, as we treat, say, rats? Or wild dogs?

Duh. Humans are not pests, we are a virus don't you watch the news? (Or was that a movie? I sometimes have difficulty telling them apart, what with stuff like Minority Report and that recent Department of Homeland Security movie....)

6. And finally, if they were so similar to us that contact with them would be somewhat meaningful, what makes you think this could become peaceful. After all, our own expansion on new continents have rarely resulted in happy co-existence among old and new inhabitants.

What do you mean, we gave the Native Americans all those very pretty beads - and guns! Don't forget the guns! It might have taken them decades to bring killing people to such efficiency!

czth

[ Parent ]

Monumental waste of resources. (4.00 / 11) (#10)
by j1mmy on Mon May 26, 2003 at 10:20:13 AM EST

The stupid whale isn't self-sufficient. It's going to die eventually. Kill it now and make sushi.

Crikey (3.80 / 5) (#14)
by kaemaril on Mon May 26, 2003 at 12:13:06 PM EST

Gosh, I bet you get a whole load of chicks with your caring demeanour and obvious empathy. Counsellor Troi's got nothing on you.


Why, yes, I am being sarcastic. Why do you ask?


[ Parent ]
OOoooOOh (3.50 / 2) (#41)
by Subtillus on Tue May 27, 2003 at 07:49:58 AM EST

A star trek reference in an online forum, you SEX MACHINE!

[ Parent ]
heh (4.00 / 1) (#42)
by kaemaril on Tue May 27, 2003 at 08:15:55 AM EST

you SEX MACHINE!

Yes. Yes, I am indeed.

Besides, when it comes to empathy I assumed most net users would consider a Troi reference mandatory :)


Why, yes, I am being sarcastic. Why do you ask?


[ Parent ]
...said the pot to the kettle (4.71 / 7) (#15)
by desiderandus on Mon May 26, 2003 at 12:29:28 PM EST

j1mmy, as a part of modern industrial society, isn't self-sufficient. I say kill him for human sushi!
_________
Our sins catch up to us in the worst possible way; they become part of our essential identities.
[ Parent ]
Demand too low. (nt) (5.00 / 1) (#21)
by Kwil on Mon May 26, 2003 at 01:38:51 PM EST


That Jesus Christ guy is getting some terrible lag... it took him 3 days to respawn! -NJ CoolBreeze


[ Parent ]
Be my guest. (5.00 / 2) (#22)
by j1mmy on Mon May 26, 2003 at 02:06:43 PM EST

I assure you, I taste like the nectar of the gods.


[ Parent ]
I just wonder... (4.00 / 1) (#11)
by rapha on Mon May 26, 2003 at 11:00:21 AM EST

...how much did these three movies cost?


---
NIETS IS ONMOGELIJK!

Renumeration (3.00 / 2) (#12)
by sypher on Mon May 26, 2003 at 11:17:25 AM EST

Don't killer whales live for a long time? Maybe the people of norway are looking forward to any sequels in the future, and whatever tourism draws itself there.

I dreamt of it once, now I fear it dreams of me
Not sure about killer whales. (5.00 / 2) (#13)
by acceleriter on Mon May 26, 2003 at 11:34:52 AM EST

However, I understand that at the first showings of the "Free Willy" in the United Kingdom, the lines went on for miles.

Probably thought it was a porno <NT> (4.71 / 7) (#23)
by godix on Mon May 26, 2003 at 02:28:20 PM EST




"A disobedient dog is almost as bad as a disobedient girlfriend or wife."
- A Proud American
[ Parent ]
Tasty dinner. (3.60 / 5) (#17)
by Hide The Hamster on Mon May 26, 2003 at 12:50:59 PM EST




Free spirits are a liability.

August 8, 2004: "it certainly is" and I had engaged in a homosexual tryst.

keiko is a smart whale (4.57 / 7) (#28)
by tang gnat on Mon May 26, 2003 at 03:28:26 PM EST

He knows that if he gets into trouble, he gets publicity. And publicity is money. And money is tasty food.

Too bad he's not a female. (none / 0) (#30)
by mjfgates on Mon May 26, 2003 at 05:23:15 PM EST

Most wild killer whales, at least the ones from the pods that came by Puget Sound, have an incredible concentration of PCBs and the like in their bodies that they don't seem to be able to reproduce properly. I bet that Keiko is a lot less polluted than his untamed brethren, and would thus make a better start for a breeding program.

A lot less polluted than his untamed brethren (none / 0) (#61)
by fenugeek on Sat Jul 05, 2003 at 10:01:57 PM EST

...and would thus make better eatin' too!

[ Parent ]
Smart whale. (4.00 / 1) (#33)
by morceguinho on Mon May 26, 2003 at 10:55:47 PM EST

they prefer to give him only "good quality" Herring as well, which has a better taste.

Dumb "owners".

smart owners (none / 0) (#52)
by landtuna on Tue May 27, 2003 at 04:34:36 PM EST

Perhaps a whale fed with better tasting herring has a better taste himself.

[ Parent ]
Only one way to find out [n/t] (5.00 / 1) (#53)
by hovik on Tue May 27, 2003 at 05:16:40 PM EST



[ Parent ]
A small Scandinavian country? (4.75 / 4) (#35)
by Lynoure on Tue May 27, 2003 at 03:38:54 AM EST

If Norway is a small Scandinavian country, could you tell what would be a large Scandinavian country? (Yes, I'm nitpicking, but to a Scandinavian person the wording seemed way weird... Areawise Denmark and Iceland are both dwarves compared to Norway.)

bzzt (4.00 / 1) (#37)
by chimera on Tue May 27, 2003 at 04:55:23 AM EST

why, Sweden of course, the one kingdom to rule them all. And in the darkness drunken them all.

[ Parent ]
isnt denmark the largest of then all (3.00 / 2) (#40)
by bauklo on Tue May 27, 2003 at 06:56:19 AM EST

since greenland is part of denmark, too?

[ Parent ]
Unskyld (none / 0) (#48)
by imrdkl on Tue May 27, 2003 at 12:56:07 PM EST

Yes, I meant small in a "Mitt lille land" kind of way, and wasn't making a geographical comparison per se. It's clear from the other comments that Keiko knew what he was doing when he chose Norway. ;)

[ Parent ]
Reenactment of a suspicion of ours (4.95 / 21) (#36)
by K5 ASCII reenactment players on Tue May 27, 2003 at 04:15:20 AM EST

Jesus, this is a hungry whale
            /
   _____   o
 __|ooo|___x ;    Squee! Squee!
 \         /   __  
  \       /   \\o\ /\
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        /\__       __/\     
    |\_/   o\     /o   \_/|
    |/--____=     =____--\|  

       /            \ 
No, *I* get to  Screw you, Kevin, it's my
be Keiko next.  turn and you know it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Free Kevin! (nt) (5.00 / 4) (#49)
by KWillets on Tue May 27, 2003 at 02:14:15 PM EST



[ Parent ]
history will repeat itself. (4.60 / 5) (#38)
by chimera on Tue May 27, 2003 at 04:59:55 AM EST

since Norway to possess a not unsignificant amount of oil, the whale will be liberated by the Panzerschmeiss of USA sooner or later.

Imagine the Fox broadcasts complete with crying PETAs and you've got yourself a nice little pre-emptive reason right there.

keiko is lonely? (2.50 / 4) (#39)
by TRASG0 on Tue May 27, 2003 at 05:01:15 AM EST

dude. keiko is an animal. he probably swam into that fijord for the same reason those stupid animals beach themselves: hes trying to evolve. or is keiko a she? doesnt matter.

read my diary or I shall turn you into a newt
Lonely animals (3.50 / 4) (#43)
by ucblockhead on Tue May 27, 2003 at 09:15:13 AM EST

I take it you've never had a dog.
-----------------------
This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
[ Parent ]
you sir are full of shit ... (none / 0) (#59)
by drgonzo on Mon Jun 02, 2003 at 10:03:28 AM EST

i hope the part with 'trying to evolve' was a joke ...
otherwise do my species a favour and kill yourself

[ Parent ]
what if (2.40 / 5) (#44)
by vivelame on Tue May 27, 2003 at 11:01:14 AM EST

i prefer free pussy?

--
Jonathan Simon: "When the autopsy of our democracy is performed, it is my belief that media silence will be given as the primary cause of death."
Keiko's real problem... (3.33 / 3) (#46)
by J T MacLeod on Tue May 27, 2003 at 11:49:14 AM EST

Is doubting his masculinity after living so long with a female name.  

This is obviously unethical treatment.  Where's PETA?

Tasty dinner. (1.00 / 1) (#47)
by StrifeZ on Tue May 27, 2003 at 12:36:06 PM EST

Tasty dinner. Deffinetly Tasty Dinner.


KITTENS@(_%&@%@_($&@(_$&^@$()&@%@+(&%
Fried (none / 0) (#60)
by awful on Mon Jun 30, 2003 at 11:37:33 PM EST

Whale meat is quite tasty - much like beef. Stir fried with spring onions, soy, rice wine yum...

[ Parent ]
I have an idea (3.66 / 3) (#50)
by wji on Tue May 27, 2003 at 03:10:07 PM EST

Let's feed Keiko to hungry children in Africa. Kill two birds with one stone. If the one whale isn't enough, we can always feed some animal rights activists to African children, too. Gahh, the idiocy of spending so much time and effort on a fucking aquatic mammal that doesn't even want to be freed, while people are homeless in rich countries...

In conclusion, the Powerpuff Girls are a reactionary, pseudo-feminist enterprise.
This is what irks the Norwegians (4.00 / 1) (#51)
by imrdkl on Tue May 27, 2003 at 04:16:24 PM EST

They don't mind so much that Keiko is being watched after, but the cost, and the thought of what could have been had for the money, is hard for them to accept.

[ Parent ]
the agenda at work (5.00 / 1) (#55)
by Shren on Wed May 28, 2003 at 12:31:56 AM EST

give the US populace stupid things to care about so they miss the important things.

so far, so good.

[ Parent ]

Couches (1.00 / 1) (#57)
by ibbie on Thu May 29, 2003 at 10:01:15 AM EST

Imagine the number of couches you could make out of that creature. Whales: the next big upholstery.

--
george washington not only chopped down his father's cherry tree, but he also admitted doing it. now, do you know why his father didn't punish him? because george still had the axe in his hand.
Given that Orcas are intelligent (5.00 / 3) (#58)
by michaelp on Fri May 30, 2003 at 02:07:45 PM EST

creatures, with societies and languages, I fail to see why caring and feeding one that can't feed itself is any stranger than caring for and feeding a helpless human?

How do the jokers here feel about killing and eating primitive hunter-gatherers of other species? Does a intelligent social being need to have nukes or at least chem-bio weapons to get the slightest bit of respect these days?

To turn the question back around: what is the logic behind calls for killing and eating a "useless" Orca that does not also condone killing and eating "useless" pygmies?



"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."

Free Willy - Humane Success, Misnomer, or Tasty Dinner? | 61 comments (58 topical, 3 editorial, 0 hidden)
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