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Foreign Minister of Sweden Anna Lindh Stabbed to Death

By marx in News
Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 01:48:05 PM EST
Tags: News (all tags)
News

Anna Lindh, foreign minister of Sweden, was stabbed in the abdomen with a knife in a shopping mall in central Stockholm yesterday afternoon local time (10 September). She passed away in the hospital during the night due to severe internal bleeding.

She was one of the most prominent and popular politicians and public characters in Sweden and had strong opinions, for example against the war on Iraq, which she was not afraid to voice. She was only 46 years old, and predestined as successor of Göran Persson, the leader of the Social Democratic party in Sweden and sitting prime minister.


The attack came during the final stages of the campaign leading up to the EMU (European Monetary Union) referendum in Sweden, which is to be held on 14 September, in which she was the leading face of the "yes" side.

Not much is known about the attacker or the motive, except that it was a male with "Swedish appearance" of regular build. The foreign minister was not accompanied by any body guards.

The murder comes in the context of the murder of Olof Palme, then sitting Swedish prime minister, in 1986, and Pim Fortuyn, leader of the fast rising List Pim Fortuyn party in the Netherlands in 2002

BBC article

BBC obituary

Previous Kuro5hin coverage of the EMU referendum

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Foreign Minister of Sweden Anna Lindh Stabbed to Death | 106 comments (95 topical, 11 editorial, 0 hidden)
dude (3.14 / 7) (#1)
by circletimessquare on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 04:54:47 AM EST

this is like the 4th time you have submitted this and retracted it

flesh it out a little, then post it for good and let it sink or swim


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

yet... (3.00 / 3) (#2)
by jjayson on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 05:11:42 AM EST

it still has spelling errors!
--
Smile. =)
[ Parent ]
What are you referring to? (3.14 / 7) (#4)
by marx on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 05:25:22 AM EST

"Body guard"? This is not a mistake on my part. That's how I write these kinds of words. If English is going to be the standard language, then let's make sure it's as easy and predictable as possible.

I did have some trouble getting things right, but I think I managed in the end.

Join me in the War on Torture: help eradicate torture from the world by holding torturers accountable.
[ Parent ]

huh? (3.71 / 7) (#5)
by jjayson on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 05:37:39 AM EST

If by "how you write these kinds of words" you mean "incorrect" then sure. It's a close compound word. Don't bitch to me, just fix it when it is pointed out to you. All languages have difficult things. It could be worse, it could be French orthography.
--
Smile. =)
[ Parent ]
I'm not bitching (2.50 / 10) (#8)
by marx on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 05:48:08 AM EST

You are. Like it or not, English is also my language, and this is my contribution to the development of the language. It's like how "gay" has changed meaning in practice from "happy" to "homosexual" in just a few decades. Languages change, and especially languages as widely used as English.

Join me in the War on Torture: help eradicate torture from the world by holding torturers accountable.
[ Parent ]

Hey (4.22 / 9) (#10)
by The Jews on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 05:54:52 AM EST

Meybee wee shud oll spel werds lyik wee wont so wee ken kontribyut tu the langwage!

You call these bagels?
[ Parent ]
then... (3.00 / 3) (#14)
by jjayson on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 06:08:41 AM EST

Are all the comma errors another contribution to the language? How about the grammar and pronoun mistakes?
--
Smile. =)
[ Parent ]
I disagree (3.25 / 3) (#18)
by tetsuwan on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 06:22:31 AM EST

Writing body guard instead of bodyguard does not improve readability. There's actually a pressure to write together compound words in English, just look at noone (or "bycatch" as I used in my article some time ago). New words often start out as separated compunds and glue together over time. You're moving up river.

As for readability, a big problem arises when compund words grammatically treated as a single noun get attributes or become parts of larger compunds. There are many examples from physics: "four-wave mixing" is easier to read than "four wave mixing" and if usage of "four-wave" become widespread enough this will probably change to "fourwave".

Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
[ Parent ]

Well (2.80 / 5) (#21)
by marx on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 07:46:24 AM EST

In Swedish, the rule is to always glue words together. This leads to constructs such as "flagpolepolisher", etc. This is an unbounded process and really muddles the definition of what a word is.

I think it's prefereable to break words up into their atoms, perhaps allowing prefixing and suffixing.

Join me in the War on Torture: help eradicate torture from the world by holding torturers accountable.
[ Parent ]

Sir, (4.25 / 4) (#50)
by tetsuwan on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 12:17:30 PM EST

I'm a native speaker of Swedish too, as you might have noticed elsewhere. Now, the two languages have opposite problems:

Swedish: uncommon words can be long and hard to read
English: common de facto words can be divided into two parts, making interpretation and reading more difficult.

footnote: I hope you're not one of these people who write "sjuk sköterska" instead of "sjuksköterska"!

Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
[ Parent ]

Claiming that your speling erors help (4.44 / 9) (#28)
by porkchop_d_clown on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 08:32:24 AM EST

improve the language is like claiming a natural disaster helps evolution.


--
Listen children, to a story, 'bout a web site, long ago..
Of the stories in the sub-q and the ugly trolls below...


[ Parent ]
It's more like a mutation (2.25 / 4) (#37)
by marx on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 08:52:57 AM EST

And I don't think evolution would be very interesting without mutations. Also, it's not an "error", unless you mean that having red hair is an error.

Join me in the War on Torture: help eradicate torture from the world by holding torturers accountable.
[ Parent ]

I shoudl have ... (3.33 / 2) (#43)
by amanset on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 09:11:45 AM EST

... remembered this when doing GCSE English Language. I could have claimed I didn't make any errors and was simply seeing the language evolve.

[ Parent ]
how do you cope (3.00 / 1) (#64)
by porkchop_d_clown on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 02:49:44 PM EST

with the new compound words that are added every day?

You should be happy you don't speak German.


--
Heinz was quoted as saying: "But the sheep are so soft and wooley," immediately before he was put into custody.


[ Parent ]
Just to agree (none / 0) (#84)
by arhavu on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 11:19:44 PM EST

I'm not sure if I'd consider your decision as a 'contribution to the development of the language'. However, it is no spelling error, if you know the standardized rules and still consciously decide to ignore those rules. If you were to write 'bawdee garred' or something similar out of ignorance, that would be a spelling error and a different matter.

But as it stands I applaud you for thinking about the issue for yourself.
It's rather simplistic to assume that all disputes about language could be resolved by pointing to a central authority like, say, OED or somesuch.

[ Parent ]
Predictable... (2.00 / 7) (#27)
by bankind on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 08:29:34 AM EST

Like the materialistic dialectic?

I did have some trouble getting things right, but I think I managed in the end.

the only thing you people can manage are famines and gulags.

pinko swine.


"Insurgents are blowing up pipelines and police stations, geysers of sewage are erupting from the streets, and the electricity is off most of the time -- but we've given Iraq the gift of supply-side economics." -Krugman
[ Parent ]

Too short, (3.00 / 2) (#3)
by lookout on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 05:20:40 AM EST

too soon (motives yet unknown) and it misses a discussion-provoking statement.

How about: "Maybe the chance of being killed by a disturbed person is the price politicians have to pay for pushing their agenda."


News (4.00 / 5) (#7)
by marx on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 05:41:56 AM EST

It's a news article though. If Kuro5hin wants to have fresher articles, then we have to accept these kinds of news bites, otherwise the news will always be two days old. Developments can be added in the discussion, and I don't think the purpose of a news article is to troll for discussion, it's just supposed to be facts and descriptions.

That's an interesting question though. I think most politicians do what they do because they want to, and because they enjoy it. It's a tremendous ego boost to be the center of attention of an entire country, or even the world. I think there is a natural increase in risk with prominence, and it's generally understood by everyone involved that that is the case.

It's a personal tragedy for the family, but it's a sort of unavoidable occurence. The focus of kooks and maniacs who are capable of committing these kinds of things is naturally going to be on famous and important people in society. So in a way I think it's better to view these kinds of murders as natural accidents instead of acts of evil which have to be rooted out at all cost. A construction worker working on a high bridge is going to have a higher risk of death because of the environment, and the same holds for prominent politicians. Very little attention is spent on fatal falls of contruction workers however, even though it's also tragic and theoretically preventable.

Join me in the War on Torture: help eradicate torture from the world by holding torturers accountable.
[ Parent ]

News (3.33 / 2) (#25)
by lookout on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 08:19:18 AM EST

Thanks for your reply.

This news is turning out to be more interesting than I first thought - I forgot that the murderer of O. Palmer still hasn't been caught - so +1 Section.

[ Parent ]

pushing agenda is their JOB for fucks sake [nt] (4.00 / 4) (#20)
by boxed on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 07:02:33 AM EST



[ Parent ]
Does anyone (1.18 / 58) (#6)
by bankind on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 05:40:46 AM EST

really care about dead communist in little, irrelevant communist countries?


"Insurgents are blowing up pipelines and police stations, geysers of sewage are erupting from the streets, and the electricity is off most of the time -- but we've given Iraq the gift of supply-side economics." -Krugman

Yes [nt] (4.33 / 9) (#11)
by nebbish on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 05:58:34 AM EST


---------
Kicking someone in the head is like punching them in the foot - Bruce Lee
[ Parent ]

you better (3.46 / 13) (#17)
by dpkg on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 06:20:54 AM EST

or they will soon put another plane in your sorry ass


this world rejects me
[ Parent ]
zero threat (2.27 / 11) (#26)
by bankind on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 08:23:17 AM EST

those people can't fly planes, they only know how to make watches and wear bikinis.


"Insurgents are blowing up pipelines and police stations, geysers of sewage are erupting from the streets, and the electricity is off most of the time -- but we've given Iraq the gift of supply-side economics." -Krugman
[ Parent ]

Swedish watches? (4.07 / 13) (#31)
by Pac on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 08:37:53 AM EST

When you think about it, considering the state of geography knowledge in USA, one could well make some money there selling Swedish watches and chocolate at premium prices...

Evolution doesn't take prisoners


[ Parent ]
I never watch Explorer (3.00 / 1) (#51)
by bankind on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 12:36:35 PM EST

past Lord John Tesh's masterpiece score.

But I do know all about those death metal bands in the Netherlands.

FREE BURZUM!!


"Insurgents are blowing up pipelines and police stations, geysers of sewage are erupting from the streets, and the electricity is off most of the time -- but we've given Iraq the gift of supply-side economics." -Krugman
[ Parent ]

burzum (2.25 / 3) (#52)
by dpkg on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 12:55:40 PM EST

Greven is from norway, and has stopped making death metal since he categorized playing guitars as "nigger music".


this world rejects me
[ Parent ]
and he (2.25 / 3) (#57)
by bankind on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 01:45:34 PM EST

also shares a cell block at the Hague with Slobodon and Pinochet, after being convicted of stabbing Brian Eno in the head with a knife to solidify the separation of Paganism from Satanism. Thus starting the great Chicago fire and the annual reenactment the night before Halloween (which is why it is called Devil's Night)


"Insurgents are blowing up pipelines and police stations, geysers of sewage are erupting from the streets, and the electricity is off most of the time -- but we've given Iraq the gift of supply-side economics." -Krugman
[ Parent ]

Right, who cares about anything (1.00 / 1) (#83)
by arhavu on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 10:59:16 PM EST

So why post that? Any other hobbies you have? Going to funerals and yelling things like 'Does anybody really care about this stiff?' If the family members get mad at you, you can just say that you were trolling, they'll surely understasnd! Seriously, if you really don't care, why post a postmodern cynical comment on the occasion of someone's death?

[ Parent ]
postmodern? (1.00 / 3) (#86)
by bankind on Fri Sep 12, 2003 at 03:27:06 AM EST

Yo man, sorry but I don't swing that way. I'm into trim.

But I don't owe them commies nothing, not until they give the nazi gold back to the jews. Then I'll cry her a river.


"Insurgents are blowing up pipelines and police stations, geysers of sewage are erupting from the streets, and the electricity is off most of the time -- but we've given Iraq the gift of supply-side economics." -Krugman
[ Parent ]

Interesting (4.00 / 2) (#12)
by nebbish on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 06:01:16 AM EST

Scandanavia is probably one of the few places in the western world where the foreign minister goes shopping in a mall by herself.

If I'm not very much mistaken though, wasn't a prominent Sacandanavian politician assassinated in the early 90s doing exactly the same thing?

---------
Kicking someone in the head is like punching them in the foot - Bruce Lee

Olof Palme (4.50 / 4) (#13)
by amanset on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 06:08:22 AM EST

Plof Palme, about 17 years ago, was shot when leaving a cinema.

[ Parent ]
Olof, dammit (4.00 / 2) (#15)
by amanset on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 06:09:45 AM EST

I should preview. Anyway, that was mentioned in the aricle. I don't remember hearing about any other politicians murdered since then.

[ Parent ]
I see now (3.00 / 3) (#16)
by nebbish on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 06:14:10 AM EST

Its just that why he was mentioned in the artcle wasn't explained.

---------
Kicking someone in the head is like punching them in the foot - Bruce Lee
[ Parent ]

or before (4.00 / 2) (#19)
by boxed on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 07:01:40 AM EST

The murder of Olof Palme was the first murder of a Swedish head of state in roughly 300 years.

[ Parent ]
More like 200 years (4.50 / 4) (#24)
by Sleepy on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 08:11:44 AM EST

King Gustav III was assassinated in 1792, as I recall. That's more like 200 years ago.

[ Parent ]
oops, my bad [nt] (3.00 / 1) (#54)
by boxed on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 01:39:19 PM EST



[ Parent ]
extremely interesting (3.00 / 3) (#22)
by treat on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 08:04:05 AM EST

Scandanavia is probably one of the few places in the western world where the foreign minister goes shopping in a mall by herself.

Indeed that's what I find most shocking about this. Is it really so safe there? People also seem genuinely surprised when a politician is assassinated. The only reason politicians are safe in the US is because of large numbers of security guards armed with machine guns and empowered to arrest anyone without cause.

[ Parent ]

Pretorian Guards... (3.25 / 3) (#30)
by jd on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 08:35:47 AM EST

The Roman Emperors surrponded themselves with heavily-armed guards, for the same reason. Unfortunately - for them - the guards had a habit of selecting new Emperors. And being as the guards were heavily-armed, not many people argued with the choices.

[ Parent ]
Quite safe (3.25 / 3) (#32)
by TurboThy on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 08:39:11 AM EST

Is it really so safe there?
Yes. The last attempt on a Danish politician's life was when an enraged watchmaker shot at Prime Councillor Estrup in the 1890s. Attack with paint, eggs and other non-lethal projectiles are quite common, though. The Swedish King was creamed with a pie not so long ago.
People also seem genuinely surprised when a politician is assassinated.
The last political homicide in Denmark (not counting those under the occupation during WWII) was...so long ago I can't even figure it out.
__
'Someone will sig this comment. They will. I know it.' [Egil Skallagrimson]
[ Parent ]
well (3.00 / 3) (#36)
by Dirty Sanchez on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 08:52:54 AM EST

I somehow doubt scandinavian politicians have as many enemies as their US counterparts.

[ Parent ]
Yes, it's safe here (4.00 / 2) (#61)
by Sleepy on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 02:37:05 PM EST

That's why the country is in this much of a shock right now; noone can really fathom the idea of a politician needing protection like that. Sure, our prime minister was assassinated 17 years ago, and we've accepted that possiblity. But anything less than the prime minister... it's just a shock that it would happen. For better or worse, we've been living with the idea of this being a safe and open place where these things just don't happen.

[ Parent ]
US state governors (none / 0) (#90)
by Per Abrahamsen on Fri Sep 12, 2003 at 07:47:48 AM EST

Do the governers and other high-ranking members of the state governments need protection too?  Also in the smaller states?

Sweden is comparable to a medium-sized US state.


[ Parent ]

See this: (none / 0) (#91)
by epepke on Fri Sep 12, 2003 at 08:35:41 AM EST

http://www.kuro5hin.org/comments/2003/9/11/45354/8805?pid=60#72


The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head.--Terry Pratchett


[ Parent ]
Sweden vs US State (none / 0) (#94)
by Jack McCoy on Fri Sep 12, 2003 at 01:28:36 PM EST

Sweden is comparable to a medium-sized US state.

A point I was going to make.  Do the governors of states like Virgnina or Ohio or Washington need large security details?

Off topic:
Sweden: 8.9 million people (roughly)
New York City: 8 million.
Mexico City: 10 million

Sweden would be the largest US city, but only the second-largest city in North America.
Yikes.
-- Jack
[ Parent ]

but (none / 0) (#96)
by Dirty Sanchez on Fri Sep 12, 2003 at 02:08:16 PM EST

Sweden has its own foreign policy, they gets to vote in the UN and so on.  You can't really compare a sovereign nation to a state within a nation.

[ Parent ]
not really (4.60 / 5) (#29)
by the wanderer on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 08:35:13 AM EST

Actually, no. It's not uncommen in most of europe for even the most high profile politicians (prime ministers, foreign ministers) to go through life unguarded.


» david, the Lost Boy
» the Written Pixel

[ Parent ]
It raises an interesting question, though (3.25 / 3) (#34)
by epepke on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 08:43:24 AM EST

The flip side of being unguarded is that it's pretty hard to predict when someone is going to a shopping mall. Which makes this even more disturbing than the massacre in the Netherlands a couple of years ago. Either the number of homicidal nuts in Sweden is much higher than I think anyone would like to admit, or somebody had a significant operation to track her moves. Neither of these bode well.


The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head.--Terry Pratchett


[ Parent ]
what massacre (4.00 / 2) (#38)
by the wanderer on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 08:53:04 AM EST

What massacre is that you speak of?

Could it not be that someone just try to rob her not knowing who she was, and stabbed her when she refused to cooperate?


» david, the Lost Boy
» the Written Pixel

[ Parent ]
You're right (3.00 / 1) (#55)
by epepke on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 01:39:20 PM EST

I confused the memory of Pim Fortuyn's assasination in the Netherlands, which was not really a massacre, with the Swiss massacre at a regional parliament building that killed 14 people. It's hard to keep these things straight sometimes, especially as the distance between them is considerably smaller than the distance between Tallahassee, Florida and Miami, Florida.

Could it not be that someone just try to rob her not knowing who she was, and stabbed her when she refused to cooperate?

Are stabbings in shopping malls in Sweden such a common, everyday occurence that one can credit the probability of the next-in-line to the prime-ministership just being stabbed at random?

I don't know the answer, but as far as I can tell, it's either "yes" or "no." If the answer is "no," my point stands. If the answer is "yes," well, then I wish that the European members of Kuro5hin would stop being so supercilious about how peace-loving Europe is and all that. I mean, even in Atlanta, which has a terrible crime rate compared to other U.S. cities, during the two years I was there there was one killing associated with a shopping mall, and it was in the parking lot.


The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head.--Terry Pratchett


[ Parent ]
stabbings (5.00 / 2) (#82)
by chimera on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 10:19:13 PM EST

I don't think this is a random stabbing, nor do I think it was politically motivated. I personally think Lindh was stabbed by someone gone mentally wrong or paranoid, and that it was she who was targetted I think happened because her face as a public person (but not specifically as a politician) was known by the murderer. Pseudo-random stab if you will. But all that is offtopic for this post really.

Crime statistics for Stockholm County for 2002 shows the following:

28 murders and manslaughters and assaults where the victim has died (thats 4 per 100.000), all weapons types included.

or specified:
20 murders and manslaughters and assaults where the victim has died (thats 3 per 100.000), firearm weapons excluded

or even more specified:
8 murders and manslaughters and assults where the victim has died (thats 1 per 100.000), victim is female, firearm weapons excluded (or included).

124 attempted murders and manslaughters where the victim has survived (thats 16 per 100.000)

or specified:
40 attempted murders and manslaughters where the victim has survived (thats 5 per 100.000), victim is female

8415 assaults (thats 1112 per 100.000), outdoors and indoors, all sexes, known or unknown attacker

or specified:
383 assaults (thats 51 per 100.000), indoors, victim is female, attacker is unknown to victim

183 robberies of stores (thats 24 per 100.000), all weapons types included

or specified:
90 robberies of stores (thats 12 per 100.000), firearm weapons excluded

1503 robberies of person (thats 199 per 100.000), indoors and outdoors, all weapons types included

or specified:
141 robberies of person (thats 19 per 100.000), indoors only, firearm weapons excluded

although it is not specified within these numbers, I can personally not recall any robbery of store using any weapons (or fists only) that ended with a deceased on scene last year or the year before (I live in this region, btw). As in most countries most crime with result in death is performed by criminals on criminals and domestic violence account for most of womens violent deaths.

All numbers are straight from Brottsförebyggande Rådet BRÅ (National Council for Crime Prevention) full calendar year of 2002 statistiscs Excel sheet covering the Stockholm Region. The sheet covers crimes reported and filed to police. Serial or joint offenses are counted as multiple, ie a robbery that resulted in a stabbing is counted as both a robbery and an attempted manslaughter.
Stockholm County is more or less equal to Stockholm City and excludes most suburbs, it has roughly 750.000 inhabitants. Stockholm Region (Stockholm City + Suburbs and adjacent countys) has roughly 1.850.000 inhabitants.
Population numbers are from SCB (Statistics Sweden).

source sites: http://www.bra.se and http://www.scb.se

[ Parent ]

Actually... (none / 0) (#92)
by epepke on Fri Sep 12, 2003 at 11:12:45 AM EST

I don't think this is a random stabbing, nor do I think it was politically motivated. I personally think Lindh was stabbed by someone gone mentally wrong or paranoid, and that it was she who was targetted I think happened because her face as a public person (but not specifically as a politician) was known by the murderer. Pseudo-random stab if you will. But all that is offtopic for this post really.

But it's on-topic for what I was talking about.

As for the rest, I'm not sure what to compare it to. Are the numbers high or low? Are you saying that they are high, and so we should not be surprised when a psychotic stabs the next-in-line to the prime-ministership on an hard-to-predict outing? Or are they low, and so, therefore, what?


The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head.--Terry Pratchett


[ Parent ]
well (none / 0) (#97)
by chimera on Fri Sep 12, 2003 at 08:48:55 PM EST

"As for the rest, I'm not sure what to compare it to."
There should be statistics of reports on crimes from other nations or places as well, including the US. The statistics are probably not fully comparable in the fine print, but with a little carefulness with definitions atleast trends should be able to be seen using the oft used (crimes per 100.000) measurement. Atlanta might be higher on Robberies using Firearms for example, while Stockholm would have a higher Murder Rate with Tea Bags or something.

"Are the numbers high or low?"
I've come to think of them as low, but I honestly don't know. Murders look to happen relatively a lot, but then again I know many crimes in Stockholm City are spillovers from the suburbs that ends up reported to citypolice. It is also valuable to understand that greater Stockholm region encompasses a fourth of the total population of Sweden, is the financial centre, tourist hub, and hosts all major governmental bodies and official symbols for the nation so crime zips here like flies to a garbage can.

"Are you saying that they are high, and so we should not be surprised when a psychotic stabs the next-in-line to the prime-ministership on an hard-to-predict outing? Or are they low, and so, therefore, what?"

As you can probably see in another post at a different comment I am not that surprised if it turns out to be a psychotic stabbing.
If the numbers are low compared to other citys or areas, well I think that doesn't say as much as I would like for me to be able to brag about how fine a city I live in. There are so many factors that effect crime rates.
But low or equal numbers would leave a testament that the murder of Anna Lindh doesnt mean the whole city if full of psychos succeeding in nipping off every major politician, which is a bit what you suggested earlier. Nor out to nip off civilians either, for that matter.

One was murdered because we didn't know better about how many enemies he had, two was murdered because 'we' (read as SÄPO) didn't understand that risk is a relative, not an absolute.

Give us a break, we're blonde, blue-eyed and speak in strange tongues :)

[ Parent ]

Yes, but not really (none / 0) (#102)
by epepke on Sat Sep 13, 2003 at 08:03:28 AM EST

There should be statistics of reports on crimes from other nations or places as well, including the US.

Sure, and if I were interested in making some sort of argument based on statistics, I could look them up. But that would only tell me how I interpret statistics, and that's not what I'm trying to find out. What I am interested in is finding out more what Swedes think. Because to my way of thinking, the reactions seem kind of strange. We have a saying in the United States: "It can't happen here!" This saying has a lot of connotations, most of them ironic and about denial, and I think of it when I hear about this incident. There's no way I can understand that better by further investigating my way of thinking, so I'm engaging in discussion. I want to know what you think. And so I ask questions designed to get people to tell me what they think. Sometimes it works.

As you can probably see in another post at a different comment I am not that surprised if it turns out to be a psychotic stabbing.

I saw that. However, from my perspective, which is doubtless different from yours, the dismissals of political motivations by the Stockholm police as described seem to me a bit facile and even naive. I know that Scandinavia in general has a lot of manic-depressives, probably due to SAD. Most manic-depressives have a short cycle and another long cycle, the latter of which is on the order of a year. So, I think one could probably find a lot of manic-depressives in a manic phase around this time in Sweden. I think the possibility, for example, of a political group gaining control over a mentally ill person, possibly with benzodiazepine addiction, and ensuring that he is in the right place at the right time is at least as probable as an encounter with a random nut-job. And the dismissal of this possibility by the Stockholm Police on the grounds that it didn't look "professional" in the Tom Clancy sense seems to me to indicate that it could have been extremely professional.

But that's just one idea.

If the numbers are low compared to other citys or areas, well I think that doesn't say as much as I would like for me to be able to brag about how fine a city I live in.

It is certainly not my goal to dis the safety of Stockholm. But I have a hard time judging safety. I walk pretty much everywhere I want without worrying about my safety, even through South-Central LA. But I am me, and so I'm biased by being me. Apparently, I look like the kind of person that you don't want to mess with, unless you have an axe to grind. I've experienced street gangs at 4 AM crossing the street to avoid me. I've also experienced the odd biker or psychotic targeting me because I look like I might be a challenge, and I'm an expert in talking them down. So I don't worry. But anyway, I'm not interested so much in my perceptions of safety, which I already know anyway, as I am interested in others';

But low or equal numbers would leave a testament that the murder of Anna Lindh doesnt mean the whole city if full of psychos succeeding in nipping off every major politician, which is a bit what you suggested earlier.

It does say something about likelihood and probability, though, at least through a Bayesian model. The probability of a politico getting killed may be small. However, given that a politico got killed, you can't just look at the raw numbers. You have to compare the probability of various possibilities, given the information that at least one politico got killed. Therefore, you're dealing with a number of probabilities, each of which may be small without that information, but given that information, one of them must have been the case.

The conditional probability of an assassination, given that a killing did occur, is much higher than the probability of an assassination without the knowledge that a killing did occur. It's not reasonable to dismiss the possibility simply because the unconditional probability is low.


The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head.--Terry Pratchett


[ Parent ]
indeed (4.00 / 2) (#65)
by stud9920 on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 02:50:51 PM EST

I live in the European district in Brussels. I have already encountered Javier Solana, Romano Prodi and last week Philippe Maystadt (the latter being an ex minister and current member of the board of a public european investment bank IIRC)

Linux Zealot fan fiction. Post yours !
[ Parent ]
mug shots (4.08 / 12) (#23)
by karb on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 08:06:04 AM EST

Not much is known about the attacker or the motive, except that it was a male with "Swedish appearance" of regular build.

I only know one swede that handy with a knife.
--
Who is the geek who would risk his neck for his brother geek?

Witness accounts (4.60 / 5) (#44)
by godix on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 09:13:29 AM EST

do not say anything about hearing the stabber yelling 'bork bork bork' so I doubt you have the right suspect.

I don't understand spending all that money for a fancy shot ... when pregnancy ain't nothing that a good coathanger or a pair of steel toed boots can't fix<
[ Parent ]
Aren't Guns Illegal In Sweden? (2.50 / 24) (#35)
by thelizman on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 08:51:17 AM EST

Oh wait, she was stabbed to death...that is SOOOO much better. More proof that gun control works though.
--

"Our language is sufficiently clumsy enough to allow us to believe foolish things." - George Orwell
sweden (4.57 / 7) (#46)
by Dirty Sanchez on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 09:42:37 AM EST

is the third most hevily armed country in western europe.

[ Parent ]
What's #2 (3.00 / 1) (#58)
by Cro Magnon on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 01:52:29 PM EST

I assume that Switzerland is #1.
Information wants to be beer.
[ Parent ]
Finland [nt] (3.50 / 4) (#59)
by Dirty Sanchez on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 01:57:48 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Does this.. (4.00 / 2) (#71)
by tkatchev on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 04:24:39 PM EST

...include black-market unlicensed firearms?

   -- Signed, Lev Andropoff, cosmonaut.
[ Parent ]

only legal guns (2.25 / 3) (#74)
by Dirty Sanchez on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 05:51:57 PM EST



[ Parent ]
I guess. (5.00 / 1) (#75)
by tkatchev on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 06:39:28 PM EST

Otherwise Russia would be in first place.

   -- Signed, Lev Andropoff, cosmonaut.
[ Parent ]

Knives are illegal (3.00 / 2) (#60)
by Sleepy on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 02:32:55 PM EST

Or, more correctly, it's illegal to carry them in a public place. This is, however, not something that can ever be easily controlled. We can't exactly install metal detectors "everywhere"...

[ Parent ]
It's Not Uncomment (3.25 / 4) (#63)
by thelizman on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 02:42:51 PM EST

Israel, which has similar problems, takes such security measures. Of note is that Israel has patterned it's defense on Sweden. So it is possible, but possible not practical nor desireable. My point was, however, to point out that such violence is not the exclusive domain of the US, and seems to be more common in Europe. They mayor of Paris was stabbed (by an Islamic radical, no less) and in England where private ownership of handguns is banned, murders by handguns is way up since the ban took effect.
--

"Our language is sufficiently clumsy enough to allow us to believe foolish things." - George Orwell
[ Parent ]
yes we non-americans are that stupid! (2.66 / 2) (#66)
by the sixth replicant on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 02:58:22 PM EST

violence only happens in america...ah, no

What a lot of people comment on is the disproportionately large number of deaths due to handguns

yes people die from guns EVERYWHERE. This we know.

Still no slim built america just comes out and admits that yes we have a gun problem, or a gun violence problem that the rest of the world doesn't.

Even i don't care anymore to be honest

ciao

[ Parent ]

Obviously E is your SL (1.75 / 3) (#68)
by thelizman on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 03:33:54 PM EST

yes we non-americans are that stupid! violence only happens in america...ah, no
Your sarcasm is misdirected. Nobody said "non americans believe this".
What a lot of people comment on is the disproportionately large number of deaths due to handguns
Disproportionate how? More people die from just about any other cause than from handguns. Wet bathroom floors kill more people than handguns. Again, the logical fallacy of the anti-gun types remove the notions of personal responsibility and individual culpability, and instead place responsibility on an inanimate object.
--

"Our language is sufficiently clumsy enough to allow us to believe foolish things." - George Orwell
[ Parent ]
Digression (3.00 / 2) (#72)
by epepke on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 04:38:55 PM EST

Once I was part of an interdisciplinary research program. There was a kind of fair held at the Florida Capitol, where we went to exhibit. We had some interesting stuff, including some movies of simulations of oil spills off the Florida coast. We were proud of these, because our code was the only one that correctly predicted the direction of an oil spill near Tampa while it was happening.

One of the people who came around to see it was Lawton Chiles, the governor of Florida. Now, OK, it was just Florida, but don't laugh too hard--13 million natives at the time with 40 million tourists per year and something like 1200 miles by road from end to end.

Anyway, as far as I could tell, there was little or no security. I had my Victorinox in my pocket as I always do, everywhere. There was the obligatory guy with a surgically removed sense of humor and the earpiece with the squashed plastic helical tube going to it, but he stood off a ways. Chiles hunkered down right next to me with his whacked-out eyeballs right in front of the monitor; there was obviously more than Prozac in his cocktail.

Anyway, at the sub-DC level and even largely at the DC level, there really isn't the kind of security that you'd expect from a lifetime of reading Tom Clancy novels.


The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head.--Terry Pratchett


[ Parent ]
Olof palme was shot. (3.00 / 1) (#70)
by EiZei on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 04:23:26 PM EST

Nice flamebait BTW.

[ Parent ]
Sigh. (4.87 / 8) (#81)
by bafungu on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 09:06:15 PM EST

So here an article gets posted to kuro5hin about the tragedy of a very popular high-ranking foreign minister in Sweden getting stabbed while peacefully shopping alone in a mall in Stockholm.

Immediately, a gun fan pops out of the woodwork, preaching about the Evils of Gun Control.

We can learn two things from this:

  1. Gun fans have no grasp of logic. Somebody getting stabbed proves absolutely nothing one way or another about the efficacy of gun control laws.
  2. Gun fans have a one-track mind. Your agenda is irrelevant to the story. The issue is that a popular Swedish high-ranking foreign minister was inexplicably murdered: whether it was done by gun, knife, grenade, car, drowning, hanging, clubbing, strangulation, beheading, poison, or death by bunga-bunga is irrelevant.
Now, if you really are convinced that life is safer in the US than in Sweden because of gun control laws, then fine: post a story about it.

Just don't complain when people start posting about how they can't find decent Lutfisk in the USA because of the high number of gun manufacturers there.

[ Parent ]

Yeah, some people miss the point (1.00 / 1) (#101)
by Sloppy on Sat Sep 13, 2003 at 03:01:42 AM EST

Gun fans have a one-track mind. Your agenda is irrelevant to the story.
Hear, hear! It's so dumb for them to drag the gun control topic into this, when it's obvious (from the cruel abdomenal stab, with reckless disregard for sacred human life) that the killer was pro-abortion!
"RSA, 2048, seeks sexy young entropic lover, for several clock cycles of prime passion..."
[ Parent ]
It's very sad (2.50 / 3) (#48)
by badkitty on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 10:31:19 AM EST

Even more so because she wasn't just a female politician, but she was in line to become prime minister.

It's interesting that in america, which is supposed to be a much more violent than europe, political assassination is unheard of. since the guy who shot reagan, anyway. Assassinations seem to be becoming more and more frequent in Europe. I don't know what that means, but it shows how well gun laws work, I suppose.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
A genuine badkitty post

A factor of protection? (4.00 / 4) (#56)
by henrik on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 01:40:06 PM EST

Well, I think it's mostly a factor of protection. Politicians in the US are heavily protected and never go anywhere without scores of bodyguards.

Anna Lindh went out to a local store to run some errands on her lunch break, like a normal person. Typically politicians here don't have any bodyguards at all unless there's an especially pronounced threat.

I rather like the European approach. It's not uncommon for people to meet a minister in the government or a member of parliament on the subway and have a quick chat. Would that happen in the US, where the ruling class seem almost completely isolated from the people.

FYI, She was stabbed with a knife, not shot. So gun control laws had nothing to do with it.

Akademiska Intresseklubben antecknar!
[ Parent ]

I think that was the point (3.25 / 3) (#69)
by CENGEL3 on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 04:07:29 PM EST

"FYI, She was stabbed with a knife, not shot. So gun control laws had nothing to do with it."

I think that was the whole point.

So many advocates of gun control here in the states are under the false impression that if we just outlawed guns all our problems with violence will just magicaly disappear.

Alot of people on the other side of the arguement (myself included) argue that gun control is a placebo, it won't really solve the problem. The problem is with peoples desire to do violence. Human beings are resourcefull enough that if they really have a desire to do violence they will find a means of achieving it....regardless of access to guns. In fact, most people who are shot with handguns are shot at such close range (typicaly less then 5ft) that a knife easly could have been used instead.

The bottom line is that while it is concievable to get rid of guns (given certain starting conditions) you'll never prevent peoples access to sharp pointy objects.... and, unfortunately, a sharp pointy object can make a person just as dead. The Swedish Minister is a tragic example that the problem lies not with some inanimate object but within human nature itself.


[ Parent ]

Guns vs. knives (5.00 / 1) (#89)
by Cameleon on Fri Sep 12, 2003 at 07:24:31 AM EST

I don't want to make this thread into a gun control flamefest, but I just have to point out that with guns, a mistake is much easier to make. With a gun, all it takes to kill someone is a pull of the trigger. With a knife, to kill someone, you have to either aim very well, or stab repeatedly, and you have to use physical force to do so.

Of course, violence will not go away without guns. And of course, guns will not go away with gun control. However, to say that nothing changes when people have knives instead of guns is simply not true.

[ Parent ]

Have you ever shot one? (none / 0) (#106)
by CENGEL3 on Tue Sep 16, 2003 at 08:12:18 PM EST

Handguns are FAR less accurate and less easy to use then most people believe. I know that from first hand experience. Most people draw thier knowledge of handguns from the movies and tv.... which give an entirely false impression.

My friend who is a patrol supervisor in the NYPD will tell you that when a knife is involved in an incident there is a far greater likelihood of serious injury or death.

Typicaly when a gun is fired during an incident the only thing gets hit is pavement...  the shooter will usualy attempt to flee the scene after taking 1 or 2 wild shots. When a knife is brandished more often then not some-one gets stabbed or cut.

This is not to downplay the fact that a gun IS a dangerous weapon or to get into some sort of big knife vs gun crankfest. I just want to point out that pointing a handgun at some-one, pulling the trigger, and hitting them is not as easy as most people assume.

Handguns are NOT superweapons....and Knives are NOT something that only Royal Marine Commandos are capable of using to inflict fatal injury

[ Parent ]

Re: It's very sad (5.00 / 1) (#78)
by skipio on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 07:27:59 PM EST

    "It's interesting that in america, which is supposed to be a much more violent than europe, political assassination is unheard of. since the guy who shot reagan, anyway. Assassinations seem to be becoming more and more frequent in Europe. I don't know what that means, but it shows how well gun laws work, I suppose."
It's not like political assassinations are particularly frequent in Europe - at least not in Northwestern Europe. I do however suspect you think that way because Western Europe has had two killings of prominent politicians recently - namely that of Anna Lindh in Sweden yesterday and of Pim Fortuyn in Holland who was killed last year. Other than those two I can only recall the killing of the then Swedish prime minister Olaf Palme in '86.

Of course there have been killings by the terrorist organization ETA in Spain, some murders by the Mafia in Italy and then of course by November 17' in Greece. Not to mention IRA ..
And then there are countries from the former Soviet block and [some] countries that belonged to the Warsaw pact in which the situation is entirely different.

Europe is quite a diverse place, you know!

[ Parent ]

Slight difference (2.00 / 1) (#88)
by the77x42 on Fri Sep 12, 2003 at 05:14:01 AM EST

The psychotic people in America like the politicans; normal people loath them.


"We're not here to educate. We're here to point and laugh." - creature
"You have some pretty stupid ideas." - indubitable ‮

[ Parent ]
..except for lincoln, a couple of kennedys ... (4.00 / 2) (#93)
by fritz the cat on Fri Sep 12, 2003 at 12:58:06 PM EST

martin luther king, malcom x, the attempt on ronald reagan...

'unheard of' my arse

DOING NOTHING FUCKING SOMETHING
[ Parent ]

Colin Powell And Richard Armitage Respond (4.00 / 2) (#62)
by acaben on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 02:39:51 PM EST

My office is less than a block from the Swedish Embassy here in DC. In fact, there's a quickie buffet-style restaurant on street level of the embassy that we often trek to for lunch, which is where I was today.

As we were leaving the restaurant, Colin Powell and Richard Armitage were both getting out of a black sedan with secret service personnel stopping traffic on the sidewalk. The Secretary of State and his deputy spent about a minute chatting on the sidewalk before entering the embassy. I can only assume it was to pay our country's respect to Ms. Lindh.

they did so.. (5.00 / 2) (#76)
by chimera on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 06:43:17 PM EST

I personally didn't expect much reaction from the Very High Levels of the US administration due to it's history of diplomatic language, and the fact that it is for many USians a day that would be filled up with other reactions and Sweden is a very small country after all. Still, I was somewhat disappointed that the first (and seemingly sole) televised comment from the US administration came in the form of diplomatic empty-speak by Under Secretary Paula Dobriansky. Comments from other nations came from their respective Foreign Minister or equal dignitary, and had almost always some personal content inside it as well as the regular diplomatic honorary phrases used in these situations. It could easily be felt by swedes (as I did feel) as if the US administrations comment was not so much a non-comment following protocol than an explicitly formed non-comment by a low-level officer to mark discontent with the swedish position on various issues.

But alas, Mr Powell and the US Administration this time proved me wrong and surprised me as well (I must admit) by making a visibly heartfelt and personal interview with Swedish (Public) Television for an evening newscast. I was very touched by it and especially by Mr Powell who, despite making an ass of himself during the prewar WMD debacles, showed that he is a statesman of true caliber as he made a clear but unspoken statement by separating issues and person (which incidentally is what Anna Lindh was liked for too). It is not so much about what Mr Powell felt about Lindh or Sweden, it is about how Mr Powell with a small gesture showed great respect for a lost collegue and put aside political differences and positions - a very equalitarian gesture.

He wrote a full page (easily seen as such on the TV) of condoleances in the book designated for that purpose, and while the interview didn't quote the message itself in entire, the swedish reporter made it very clear to the viewers that the content of the message was highly personal with in-jokes and memories and an expression of high regard from a professional to another.

It is a very sad thing that Mr Powell and a lot of other professionals within the administration and agencies with a sincere view on the difficulties of solving problems are studiously ignored by the inbreds, mongers and morons that stand above them in rank.
I believe United States suffers from it now, and will suffer much more from it in times to come.

For those USians that truly feels as if towelheads is the worst scum on earth and that the French are  ugly frogeaters and swedes are just stuckup naive farts that obviously dont know crap about security - could you atleast vote the next time for some one that has developed integrity, a  philosophy of life and personal charachter and that can handle words too preferrably? Your Boss decieves you too right now, you know.

[ Parent ]

Powell's a good guy. (3.00 / 1) (#80)
by Work on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 07:37:46 PM EST

Probably the best in the current administration. Unfortunately what views and thoughts he has tend to get overruled by majority idiocy.

Military guys tend to be very honest and practical. One of the many reasons many are clamoring for former supreme commander of NATO, General wesley clark, to run for president.

[ Parent ]

are the swedish police going to fuck up (3.00 / 3) (#67)
by the sixth replicant on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 03:03:40 PM EST

as much as they did with investigation of the murder of Olof Palme.

What were the reforms or the status of the investigation?

Ciao

Murder weapon (3.00 / 1) (#73)
by marx on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 05:00:02 PM EST

In this case the police have the murder weapon, his sweater and his hat. They say that it's likely they'll get his DNA, and then at least they'll avoid the charade of the Palme case, where a guy gets acquitted by the courts but confesses to the newspapers.

This was also a crowded and well-lit place, unlike the Palme murder site, so they must have a lot of eye witnesses who can identify him.

So unless he disappears completely, permanently out of the country or something, then I think they eventually must find him, i.e. check the DNA against every likely suspect. Even if it's 10000 people they could just do DNA tests, it's just a question of money, which I guess they'll get.

Join me in the War on Torture: help eradicate torture from the world by holding torturers accountable.
[ Parent ]

unfortunately... (5.00 / 1) (#77)
by chimera on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 07:12:16 PM EST

despite it being not even 36hrs since this thing begun and thus little analysis could have been finalized by most police anywhere.
despite this murder being structurally and strategically very different in appearance than the palme murder in that it has among other things the weapon used in the murder already found....

...I must say yes, I believe so.

The swedish police, and the stockholm police especially, have a history further than the Palme murder investigation of bungling up investigations, ignoring or misquoting key witnesses, doing bad analysis and getting badly formed investigations before a court .

the swedish police, and especially the stockholm police is infested with a very bad working climate, high and mid-level management without brains or credibility or leadership qualities, battling factions, pettiness and tunnel vision.

They might pull it off, but considering the size this thing takes politically and in media in Sweden I cannot believe they will. They are a bunch of deaf and blind (but not mute) elephants in a glass store filled with Kosta Boda right now, looking for the way out.

[ Parent ]

i've read... (4.00 / 2) (#79)
by Work on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 07:34:44 PM EST

that the police don't think its 'politically motivated'. WTF? People just aren't randomly stabbed to death in broad daylight, in public places, in any country in the world, by unknown unrelated assailants all that often. Much less the foreign minister of a western country like sweden.

Of course its 'politically motivated'. Granted the guy who did it is probably nuts, but im sure he stabbed the foreign minister to death for political reasons in his own mind.

re: i've read (5.00 / 9) (#85)
by chimera on Thu Sep 11, 2003 at 11:57:52 PM EST

<i>i've read.. ..that the police don't think its 'politically motivated'. WTF? People just aren't randomly stabbed to death in broad daylight, in public places</i>

first, there is something you should become aware of, and the only way for you to become aware of that is that I or someone else tell you: in Stockholm of this year there has been two separate acts of violence that has caused death and mass-injury, and both of them could be interpreted as political acts if it wasn't for the fact that it was quickly established that both those persons who performed the acts were very very ill on a mental plane.

- act1 took place in early june at a subway station entrance when a man suddenly brought forth a metal pipe (or maybe it was a sword?) and started banging on people around him for all he was worth. one elderly man died of a head injury and several others were seriously injured in extremities. the man explained his action (with great remorse) in that he was so immersed in a fantasy book he read earlier that day that he thought he was in a war with creatures of might. he was sentenced deftly to forced psychiatric hospitalization without parole until healthy.

-act2 took place late june in the Old Town part of Stockholm on a street (Västerlånggatan) that is closed for other traffic than bi-ped and four-ped strollers and tourists when a man drove his car full speed over 100m  straight through the tiny and packed street. Two people died and more than twenty were injured.  He explained is actions in that he had no control over the car as it was remote controled by people in another part of the city that had been chasing him for quite some time. needless to say he was also sentenced  to forced psychiatric hospitalization without parole until healthy.

It has not been officially concluded yet but everyone (civilians and politicians alike) is more or less clear that both these men should not have been on the streets at all had it not been due to an absolute hideous financial crisis (which can be elaborated in another post maybe) in the healthcare and psychatric care system that has basically shut down all homes and centres that deal with the mentally ill.

now, back to Lindh and why the police dont think it's politics involved, yet..

There are some major pointers to why it SHOULD be a political act:
- its the Foreign Minister
- in the highest heat of a political campaign
- of one of the biggest decisions ever of this nation
- 9/11

but there are also some pointers that INDICATE it is not a politicated act:
- the description tells of a typical male swede , which reduces the likelyness it is an internationally based political act.
- modus operandi indicates it is not a professional killer, the venue is ill sought and heavily populated at this time with possible witnesses (especially compared to another venue that Lindh walked through to get from the Foreign Ministry to NK which is usually less crowded and has better and more exit points), the murderer wore a camouflage jacket instead of plain clothes, a knife is not as efficient as a gun or rifle in terms of lethalness and need of proximity to the victim
- there has been no prior personal threats recently and noone has taken responsibility afaik.  It is custom in political acts of violence to either recieve warnings or get a quick we-did-it note
- several witnesses has described the murderer as a typical male swede build BUT ALSO as ragged, physically worn down and seeming very confused. This does not perhaps indicate a total lack of politics but can be a vital sign that, say, the person in question was at the time of the murder in a state of psychosis or paranoia or on drugs such as heroin or rohypnol, both of which is extremely easy to get in the surrounding blocks of the NK store. In fact one major junkie hole of Stockholm is Sergels Torg (Sergel Plaza) (or 'Plattan' as it is usually called) where there is always drug selling going on, and it lies 100m away from the NK store just up the street.
- the NK store is considered one of the most fashionable stores in the town and is often used by the junkies at Plattan and other criminal elements as a sort of free-to-grab flea market when they need money for their stuff. Stealing, casually ignited fires and pick-pockets are common in the store, and there have been a few cases of major robberies of money transports to or from the store
- as a Foreign Minister and as a Campaign Leader and as a devout mother Anna Lindhs schedule was absolutely jampacked and time critical, she was always on the move and at most times of all days in direct proximity to collegues, friends, staff and security personnell or police if she even was inside the country at all. Her visit to NK was private, most likely not a long one and quite difficult to foresee and fit a political murder plot too. Her home would be the best bet actually. It would be hard for a group to keep tag of her on various sites around the nation without being noticed so this in itself indicates a single person's act.

the indications that it might be a junkie gone berserk or a psychologically ill man with a bout of paranoia against Lindhs face which can be seen all over town on ad-boards, the conclusion that the deed was not optimally performed in terms of risk and success rate deductions, and and the fact that it has this summer been several acts of violence that ended with atleast one dead and caused by 'released' persons with disturbances may be just enough to de-solidify a pure political motive.

The police have probably not ruled politics out though. Even the Swedish police aint that dumb. I hope.

bet your ass that psychiatric care problem is being looked at thoroughly too. but as politicians go there is a lot of meaningless quabble, blame-gaming and positioning before anything happenes.

sweden is still, I dare say, a comparatively safe and open society even in terms of the highest european and northamerican standards, it just got a lot less safe  later years, it seems. wonder what happened.  

[ Parent ]

Thanks. (none / 0) (#95)
by sonovel on Fri Sep 12, 2003 at 01:36:02 PM EST

Thanks for all the extra details. I hadn't read most of them.

[ Parent ]
If you say the Mossad did it you're anti-Semitic (2.33 / 3) (#98)
by Baldrson on Fri Sep 12, 2003 at 11:17:13 PM EST

"She was an outspoken critic of Ariel Sharon's policy
towards the Palestinians. 'Our stand is firm and clear,'
she said in a recent interview. 'Israeli settlement in the
West Bank must go; there must be a Palestinian state;
Israel must vacate all occupied areas on the West Bank
and Gaza Strip and end all extra-territorial executions
and attacks on Palestinians." (Lindh's obituary, Daily
Telegraph [UK], Sept. 11, 2003).

-------- Empty the Cities --------


Almost correct. (5.00 / 1) (#99)
by magney on Fri Sep 12, 2003 at 11:20:29 PM EST

If you say the Mossad did it without the slightest smidgen of evidence beyond the mere fact that the murder victim spoke out against Israeli policy, you most certainly are anti-Semitic.

Do I look like I speak for my employer?
[ Parent ]

What is the threshold of evidence required? n/t (none / 0) (#100)
by Baldrson on Sat Sep 13, 2003 at 01:55:55 AM EST


-------- Empty the Cities --------


[ Parent ]

a professional hit maybe (none / 0) (#104)
by Dirty Sanchez on Sat Sep 13, 2003 at 01:54:00 PM EST

if a pro had done it, she wouldn't have lived for over 20 hours after the attqack.

[ Parent ]
Bullshit (4.00 / 1) (#103)
by benDOTc on Sat Sep 13, 2003 at 10:08:46 AM EST

Now, just for the record, i am not an anti-semite, and furthermore, i don't think Mossad had anything to do with it, but this is still total bullshit.

Many people think Isreal is a corrupt, militaristic, and self-serving nation.  Furthermore, the Mossad is believed to be involved in some pretty cloak-and-dagger stuff.  From there, for the more conspiritorially-minded of us, it is not hard to get to the Mossad's possible involvement.

This is a line of belief that may be popular with anti-semites, but if you know anything about logic it's that just because if a then b does not mean that if b then a.  The state of Isreal is not Judeism and is not the Jewish people.  Some people think Isreal is evil because of the actions of the state, not because of the International Jewish Conspiracy or any other bollocks like that.

And as an end note, before you go off accusing me of being anti-semetic, i'm not one of those people who believes Isreal to be evil, despite the weak arguments (read: name calling) of many of its supporters.

b.c

[ Parent ]

Diary entry (5.00 / 1) (#105)
by johanges on Sat Sep 13, 2003 at 07:52:29 PM EST

I wrote some on the same subject in my Diary Entry before I even saw this.

My entry is on a bit more personal level as it started with what I sent as a letter to a friend.

Anna Lindh and I were the same age... it makes it sting just a bit more.

Foreign Minister of Sweden Anna Lindh Stabbed to Death | 106 comments (95 topical, 11 editorial, 0 hidden)
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