Kuro5hin.org: technology and culture, from the trenches
create account | help/FAQ | contact | links | search | IRC | site news
[ Everything | Diaries | Technology | Science | Culture | Politics | Media | News | Internet | Op-Ed | Fiction | Meta | MLP ]
We need your support: buy an ad | premium membership

[P]
Educating the Homelander - Towards a Secure Future

By imrdkl in News
Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 02:42:05 PM EST
Tags: Security (all tags)
Security

In his recent State of the Union speech, one of the (two) new proposals mentioned by GWB was something he called Jobs for the 21st Century. This program will give seed money to fund job training partnerships between community colleges and local high-growth industries. And while many industries and professions are in decline these days, at least one is growing, and even thriving - the industry being built around Homeland Security.

Homeland Security is indeed one of todays rare star achievers among growth industries, and with the news we're seeing of late, the outlook for the future of homeland security certainly seems bright. In this article, we'll take a look at the educational opportunities which are already available to the student who is pursuing this honorable career objective, and see how the nations' community colleges, along with other institutions of higher learning, are moving rapidly towards a unified, structured, and well-balanced approach to educating the Homelander.


During the weekend of Feb. 7-8, a newly-formed 21-member task force of community colleges within the AACC (American Association of Community Colleges) met in Washington, with an agenda aimed towards improving and developing new programs related to homeland security. Additionally, the task force is charged with coalescing and coordinating homeland security education efforts which are already under development or underway around the nation. According to AACC President, George R. Boggs, "This new, strategic collaboration will significantly accelerate our national preparedness."

The task force will find that there are currently two primary focal points for educating the Homelander, the first being practical training, which provides knowledge on terrorists and terrorism, disaster management, and public laws and regulations, as well as other specialized disciplines. The second focus is upon civic responsibility, which helps the student learn to meet community needs, increase community involvement, and develop a sense of caring for others, and generally become a better citizen. Various community colleges around the nation have specialized in one or the other, and in some cases, both of these disciplines.

The practical training component of a homeland security education is, to a large degree, already well defined - at least for 2-year programs. The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) in coordination with the Department of Homeland Security have established the Emergency Management Institute which provides the core nationwide cirriculum being taught at most community colleges which offer a homeland security program. The curriculum consists of coursework within the previously-named disciplines, and aims to provide a well-rounded introduction to the skills necessary for the Homeland Security specialist. A sampling of these interesting and challenging courses includes:

For those seeking something more than a 2-year certification, a number of Universities have also now developed homeland security programs, and the high-achiever can now obtain both undergraduate and graduate degrees in this exciting field. Just a few of the programs available include: Other degree programs and certifications are also available.

The second primary focus for educating the homelander aims to increase their civic responsibility. This is accomplished via enhancing the students level of community and civic engagement, and expose them to something called service learning, a process whereby the student increases her ability to learn and retain new information - not by reading, but by saying and doing. To that end, an extensive program of community service, along with citizenship training are provided. Of particular interest is the civics program offered throughout the US entitled, Project Citizen: A Model for Teaching Civic Engagement. This model program for educating the homelander in proper citizenship, and against "alienation from the political process", seeks to empower students to exercise their rights and responsibilities of citizenship. It's just one among many programs available within the civic responsibility focus of a homeland security education.

Another highlight within the civic responsibility focus are the frequent conferences, seminars, and forums which aim to help the student as well as the educator "adapt to the paths of change" within service learning and community engagement. Other recent conferences include Homeland Security and the Community College: A Vibrant Present and Vital Future, the summary of two recent forums which addressed both training, and engaging, the homeland.

Most of the homeland security education programs, whether 2-year, undergraduate, or graduate, currently find the majority of their attendees among the nation's "first-responders" - law enforcement officers, firefighters, nurses, and EMTs. Being a first-responder is not a prerequisite however - most of the 2-year programs invite anyone with an interest in homeland security to join (US citizenship may be required). Additionally, community colleges are rapidly establishing or expanding programs to prepare professionals in other fields, such as environmental safety, power grid management, and especially information technology and cyber security.

According to Dan Snyder, president of Lehigh Carbon Community College in Pennsylvania, "Five years ago if you wanted to take a course on terrorism you basically had to go to the military, today I think you're seeing a lot more training, and the facilities that are necessary to provide that high-level training." Indeed, what was once the purview of very specialized schools such as Firefighting and Officer Training academies has now reached the mainstream - motivated by terrorism and fighting evil, but also to create better citizens, and a more engaged homeland. Regarding the ability of community colleges to provide the security training that our nation needs so desparately, Thomas Flynn, president of Monroe Community College, one of the members of the task force, and whose program includes two complete 737-burn simulators, said, "No one can do it better,".

Have you considered Homeland Security as a career path? If so, you're not alone - snapshots of attendance at some colleges which offer these programs show significant increases in enrollment, with hundreds of brand new students signing up, just to learn about terrorism, WMDs, security, and how they too can be better, more engaged citizens. Why not join in one of the most exciting new career fields available to Americans, and start your Homeland Education today!

Sponsors

Voxel dot net
o Managed Hosting
o VoxCAST Content Delivery
o Raw Infrastructure

Login

Related Links
o State of the Union speech
o Jobs for the 21st Century
o news
o bright
o met in Washington
o charged with
o Federal Emergency Management Agency
o Department of Homeland Security
o Emergency Management Institute
o interestin g and challenging courses
o Terrorism Risk Assessment
o Psychology And Sociology of Terrorism
o WMD Hands-On Training Course
o Disaster Law and Liability Issues
o Leadership & Power
o Bachelor of Arts in Homeland Security
o Graduate Biodefense Degrees and Graduate Certificates
o Homeland Security Master of Arts Program
o Master of Science in National Security and Graduate Certificate in National Security
o Other degree programs
o community and civic engagement
o service learning
o Project Citizen: A Model for Teaching Civic Engagement
o conference s
o Homeland Security and the Community College: A Vibrant Present and Vital Future
o Firefighti ng
o Monroe Community College
o Also by imrdkl


Display: Sort:
Educating the Homelander - Towards a Secure Future | 95 comments (91 topical, 4 editorial, 4 hidden)
I'm so glad. (2.52 / 21) (#1)
by mcc on Tue Feb 10, 2004 at 03:36:16 PM EST

I'm so glad that we have Bush to help create jobs by increasing our security, as opposed to those FDR-loving tax-and-spend democrats who probably would have just addressed the job problem by flat-out hiring people on big public works projects. I mean, that would be just GIVING the money away!

As it is, we know Bush will use our nation's money in a responsible manner, by which I mean he won't be taxing us for it.

---
Aside from that, the absurd meta-wankery of k5er-quoting sigs probably takes the cake. Especially when the quote itself is about k5. -- tsubame

-1: liberal propaganda (2.75 / 4) (#37)
by skyknight on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 08:47:00 AM EST

We all know that money grows on trees. You're just spreading vicious lies. The Asian banks will go on funding our Homeland Security initiatives, and like it.

It's not much fun at the top. I envy the common people, their hearty meals and Bruce Springsteen and voting. --SIGNOR SPAGHETTI
[ Parent ]
Ominous music sting (2.96 / 25) (#2)
by Tatarigami on Tue Feb 10, 2004 at 03:52:27 PM EST

It strikes me as a really bad idea to create an industry and a skilled workforce, who will no doubt hold positions of considerable influence, whose best interests will be served by prolonging and escalating the climate of fear and paranoia the war on terrorism has fostered.

extremes (none / 1) (#7)
by eudas on Tue Feb 10, 2004 at 06:16:32 PM EST

on the other hand, following this example to the other extreme, your other choice is to have NOBODY 'guarding the wall'.

*shrug*

eudas
"We're placing this wood in your ass for the good of the world" -- mrgoat
[ Parent ]

That's the same problem (none / 1) (#20)
by ZanThrax on Tue Feb 10, 2004 at 10:52:56 PM EST

you have with any part of society that serves a purpose at the time of creation that we would rather not have a need for.
Police / Prison System
Medical Care / Pharmacuetical Care
Military
Unions
are just four quick examples of industries that would die off if they did their jobs perfectly.

Before flying off the handle over the suggestion that your a cocksucker, be sure that you do not, in fact, have a cock in your mouth.
[ Parent ]

Remember Eisenhower's farewell speech? (2.75 / 4) (#42)
by fn0rd on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 11:54:00 AM EST

There's nothing new about that industry, we've been living with it for 6o years.

This fatwa brought to you by the Agnostic Jihad
[ Parent ]

Reference? (none / 1) (#56)
by scruffyMark on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 04:44:24 PM EST

No, I don't remember Eisenhower's farewell speech, seeing as how my parents hadn't even showed up in the same country, much less met, in '61. That, and since I've never spent more than about three weeks at a stretch in the States, I have little exposure to US elementary school civics classes.

I might conceivably be interested in reading it though.

[ Parent ]

Reference (3.00 / 4) (#65)
by Flippant Chicken on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 08:38:20 PM EST

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/ike.htm

The passage I have seen quoted most often:

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist."

[ Parent ]

My comment was addressed to those (none / 0) (#78)
by fn0rd on Thu Feb 12, 2004 at 12:59:09 PM EST

to whom the article's subject relates. Fortunately, Flippant Chicken has thoughtfully provided a link.

This fatwa brought to you by the Agnostic Jihad
[ Parent ]

Unfortunately... (none / 1) (#95)
by scruffyMark on Sat Feb 21, 2004 at 04:45:27 PM EST

The article relates to everyone, because when Americans get uptight and paranoid, they have a way of exporting their attitudes, whether by diplomacy or bombardment. It is in my interest, dwelling (and voting) in a country that is a likely target of at least one of those tactics, to remain somewhat informed of tendencies in the US political climate.

[ Parent ]
As seen in the War on Drugs (2.92 / 14) (#3)
by nkyad on Tue Feb 10, 2004 at 04:08:52 PM EST

That's probably the best way to ensure a long future of insecurity: create a bureocracy whose sole purpose is to attain security.

On the other hand, shouldn't this be under Humour?

Don't believe in anything you can't see, smell, touch or at the very least infer from a good particle accelerator run


That's all well and good (2.00 / 19) (#4)
by SIGNOR SPAGHETTI on Tue Feb 10, 2004 at 04:24:01 PM EST

but the fitness industry, purveyors of fine barbells and power racks since 1902, and more recently of super vitamin and rare plant extracts, has fallen on hard times. Little wonder, looking at the average Homeland Security physique. People ask, "SIGNOR SPAGHETTI, how much should I be prepared to spend on an adjustable bench and Olympic barbell set?" I tell them that in this country, dangerous day and age, you don't need to buy expensive workout gear to become masculine. Just lift fat people. Oh, and spend 10$ on some chalk, because fatties tend to heat up with anti-terrorist ardor and cover you with their slippery sweat.

--
Stop dreaming and finish your spaghetti.

Discourage (1) - that's gross (none / 1) (#15)
by polish surprise on Tue Feb 10, 2004 at 09:22:26 PM EST

Imagine, if you will, bench pressing Vlad's wife.

--
Controversy is my middle name.
[ Parent ]

fat broads are people too (2.40 / 5) (#40)
by SIGNOR SPAGHETTI on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 11:21:59 AM EST

You can tie her up in a harness and suspend her at the other end of a lat bar. Pull. The sudden acceleration causes her to wheeze air into her ample lungs. Hold for a second then release suddenly. The decelerating elevator effect causes her to emit a faint little squeal. Voila, instant fitness metronome.

When you're finished, compliment her enthusiastically ("good girl!") and give her a treat.

Everyone has to love each other and work together to make the world a better place, I feel.

--
Stop dreaming and finish your spaghetti.
[ Parent ]

wow (none / 0) (#74)
by Cackmobile on Thu Feb 12, 2004 at 09:43:45 AM EST

thats some funny shiat. well done

[ Parent ]
-1 takes advantage of the American psychosis (nt) (1.57 / 7) (#8)
by xutopia on Tue Feb 10, 2004 at 06:30:01 PM EST



Yeah (none / 1) (#54)
by imrdkl on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 04:15:16 PM EST

And that's a long line to wait in.

[ Parent ]
Scaring (2.62 / 8) (#10)
by svampa on Tue Feb 10, 2004 at 07:38:56 PM EST

I can't believe it. It looks the speach of a dictatorship trying to scare people.

  • First phase: Boost the feeling of "we are sorrounded by enemies"
  • Second phase: Give as the power. "We, the government, with your help and free hands will protect you"
  • Now universities will give degrees of paranoia. "You are scared senior class B. If you learn tech to transmit your paranoia to your neiborhood, you will get the Class A degree".

    When I need to know how accurate is USA government when shouts "Enemies at sight!!", I only have to think in iraq WMD.

    This story is a troll. Isn't it?



    Shoot first ask questions later (none / 2) (#11)
    by pertubation theory on Tue Feb 10, 2004 at 08:19:39 PM EST

    An admirable policy in my book. Sorry but if there is a probablity as small as 10^{-10} that its going to be me or you, its going to be you no questions asked.

    ----
    Dice are small polka-dotted cubes of ivory constructed like a lawyer to lie upon any side, commonly the wrong one.
    - Ambrose Bierce
    [ Parent ]
    It's always the guy who can't speak English (none / 3) (#14)
    by polish surprise on Tue Feb 10, 2004 at 09:20:24 PM EST

    This much, we both know.

    --
    Controversy is my middle name.
    [ Parent ]

    Bang! (none / 3) (#17)
    by cburke on Tue Feb 10, 2004 at 10:37:58 PM EST

    Who the fuck were you again?

    [ Parent ]
    Ugh! I've been shot [nt] (none / 0) (#41)
    by pertubation theory on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 11:46:26 AM EST



    ----
    Dice are small polka-dotted cubes of ivory constructed like a lawyer to lie upon any side, commonly the wrong one.
    - Ambrose Bierce
    [ Parent ]
    Sorry... (none / 3) (#46)
    by cburke on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 02:29:12 PM EST

    ... but the odds of you harming me were way above 10-10.  I really had no choice.

    [ Parent ]
    auto-fulfilled prophecy (2.80 / 5) (#61)
    by svampa on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 06:48:50 PM EST

    If you need a 99.9% you are naive. If you need only a 1E-10% you are a paranoid.

    You could say. "Well. Paranoid or not, I will always be safe". That's wrong

    That means that you feel almost always threated, I see that you attack people with no clear reason, so when you are near me there is a 80% that you feel threated by me. So there is a 80% of probabilities that you attack me. I'm a theoric danger for you, but you are real danger for me. So there is a 80% of probablities I attack you as defense.

    Multiply this for everyone that surounds you, and will see you have created a lot of enemies. You have turn (1E-10%) into (80% x n). If you feel strong enough to exterminate everybody, then that's a good policy, if you don't, then you are deep in troubles, it's a sucide and stupid policy.

    I'm sure you are not like that, people like that are a danger for everybody and are locked in an intitution as paranoids.

    In fact, it's a matter of level. Is 50% enough for you to justify a preventive attack? 80% ? 2%? 1E-10?. But the idea:"The more paranoid you are the safer you are" is stupid, if you cross some limit, you turn neutral or indifferent people into enemies.

    Probably that's why in a survey USA has been labeled as one of the most dangerous countries for world peace: Its paranoia.



    [ Parent ]
    Tongue in cheek (none / 1) (#45)
    by imrdkl on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 02:15:41 PM EST

    But completely factual.

    [ Parent ]
    Preemptive defense is just so much more fun! (none / 0) (#68)
    by tjost on Thu Feb 12, 2004 at 04:25:36 AM EST

    When I need to know how accurate is USA government when shouts "Enemies at sight!!", I only have to think in iraq WMD.
    "It's coming right for us! *BANG!*" (0.2p)

    [ Parent ]
    Its huge pork Barrel (2.66 / 12) (#12)
    by minerboy on Tue Feb 10, 2004 at 08:43:27 PM EST

    People have to realize that the language used to describe these programs is meant to sell the programs to the people that fund such programs - most of the people writing it don't even believe it themselves. I have seen details of a couple of these programs, and basically, they represent universities attempt to cash in on the fear generated by 9/11. These programs are never meant to attract the typical college student, they are meant to attract national guard, EMS, Hazmat type people - give them another certiciate, or a degree that will be funded by - guess who - The Taxpayer.

    Note that there are no Major universities involved in these programs - that's because they won't touch them - the government is intimatly involved in developing the curriculum, and usually finds a way for the student to apply military, or national guard training towards these degrees. Further, the programs are bullied through traditional University approval channels, using the excuse that the program has security considerations.

    I am wondering though - what will the students do once they leave the military - there is really no job waiting for them and their improved knowledge of WMD.

    Now, those that know my posts might be suprised, since I'm all for stomping the miserable terrorist scum into hell. But this is nothing more than a huge, useless pork barrel project, that feeds the military industrial complex at the taxpayers expense.



    No major universities? (2.80 / 5) (#27)
    by imrdkl on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 02:51:36 AM EST

    Unless I'm reading this wrong, there's George Mason U, George Washington U, Penn State, Purdue, UTenn, and UWash, plus others. A couple of those look "major".

    I don't think size is a limitation upon greed, although there are but a few, so far. Govt. bullying could certainly have something to do with the propogation of this pork as well, as you point out.

    [ Parent ]

    yeah, OK (none / 3) (#35)
    by minerboy on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 07:50:18 AM EST

    The vast majority are small or smallish, though. No berkely, or MIT, at least yet. Some of the majors, like Penn State, are using this to enhance their branch campuses. Note that this is all happening at a time when states are cutting funding to higher Ed. Also, keep in mind that when universities receive money, they charge something called "indirect costs", which amounts to ~45% of all salaries paid by any grant. They use this money as a slush fund for the university president, so the cost of these programs to the tax payer is significantly more than if the military just provided the training.



    [ Parent ]
    What's a "typical college student"? (none / 2) (#28)
    by ti dave on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 04:00:27 AM EST

    Let me guess, someone not like you, eh?

    Fucking elitist prick.

    "If you dial," Iran said, eyes open and watching, "for greater venom, then I'll dial the same."

    [ Parent ]
    typical college students (none / 2) (#34)
    by minerboy on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 07:42:20 AM EST

    Aren't being sent to college for military training. And, typically, they will be getting a non-military related job. They don't have security clearances, So fuck off.



    [ Parent ]
    So, you oppose educating Soldiers, EMS and Cops? (none / 1) (#81)
    by ti dave on Thu Feb 12, 2004 at 02:39:57 PM EST

    Short-sighted, aren't you? Cut off your nose to spite your face.
    "If you dial," Iran said, eyes open and watching, "for greater venom, then I'll dial the same."

    [ Parent ]
    No, I don't (none / 1) (#83)
    by minerboy on Thu Feb 12, 2004 at 07:56:57 PM EST

    oppose educating anyone, but I do think that those groups are a-typical. The point is that the programs mentioned are targeted at a very select group of individuals. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but in this case I think that the existance of the programs drive the demand, not the other way around.



    [ Parent ]
    Do you think this is a new idea? (none / 2) (#86)
    by ti dave on Fri Feb 13, 2004 at 05:34:07 AM EST

    I've attended dozens of these types of courses and precisely two of them were not open to civilian enrollment.

    It appears to me that you're making a mountain out of a mole-hill.

    "If you dial," Iran said, eyes open and watching, "for greater venom, then I'll dial the same."

    [ Parent ]
    Veterans aren't supposed to survive... (2.75 / 4) (#29)
    by Gooba42 on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 04:41:53 AM EST

    The current administration is working hard to deny benefits and normal labor protections to military personnel, particularly those who might cross into the private sector.

    They would really prefer that rather than going on to a productive retirement from military service that they either pursue a career in the military or die trying.

    Why else would the new labor laws introduced by our president specifically exclude military trained personnel from receiving overtime in any occupation?

    [ Parent ]

    what? (none / 0) (#62)
    by coderlemming on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 07:17:15 PM EST

    Why else would the new labor laws introduced by our president specifically exclude military trained personnel from receiving overtime in any occupation?

    What the... can I have a reference please?


    --
    Go be impersonally used as an organic semen collector!  (porkchop_d_clown)
    [ Parent ]

    President's proposed changes to labor laws... (none / 2) (#67)
    by Gooba42 on Thu Feb 12, 2004 at 04:01:56 AM EST

    Bush proposed changes to the labor laws, that's fairly well known. In the latest revision of his proposed law language was added to exclude anyone with military training from overtime protections.

    This link includes some details. I'm trying to dig up something closer to the source though.

    http://www.aflcio.org/yourjobeconomy/overtimepay/underattack.cfm

    [ Parent ]

    What these students will do .. (none / 1) (#70)
    by Highlander on Thu Feb 12, 2004 at 07:19:17 AM EST

    What these students will do once they leave the course is to train new Osama B. Ladens with their knowledge. What else is there do to and it has happened before.

    Moderation in moderation is a good thing.
    [ Parent ]
    The Homelander (2.92 / 14) (#13)
    by debacle on Tue Feb 10, 2004 at 09:15:58 PM EST

    There can be only one!

    It tastes sweet.
    -1 Klu Klux Klan Propaganda (1.00 / 12) (#16)
    by Azmeen on Tue Feb 10, 2004 at 09:52:50 PM EST




    HTNet | Blings.info
    Woah, that came out of left field. (2.40 / 5) (#23)
    by debillitatus on Tue Feb 10, 2004 at 11:27:24 PM EST

    I like it!

    Damn you and your daily doubles, you brigand!
    [ Parent ]

    So why do we need more worthless degrees? (2.25 / 4) (#18)
    by lukme on Tue Feb 10, 2004 at 10:49:13 PM EST

    Quite frankly, the problem with the "homeland" security degrees is that the job prospects are minimal, unless you have political ties, and the bush administration stays in power forever.




    -----------------------------------
    It's awfully hard to fly with eagles when you're a turkey.
    I can imagine such a world (none / 2) (#21)
    by ZanThrax on Tue Feb 10, 2004 at 10:56:12 PM EST

    There's still at least one more Bush available before changing the laws (or basic nature of the US system) becomes necessary. Given 12 more years, I can imagine (though don't truly expect) the US becoming the world's biggest banana republic.

    Before flying off the handle over the suggestion that your a cocksucker, be sure that you do not, in fact, have a cock in your mouth.
    [ Parent ]

    4 more yrs of W, banana republic here we come. (none / 0) (#25)
    by lukme on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 12:39:11 AM EST

    I can too - unfortunatly.


    -----------------------------------
    It's awfully hard to fly with eagles when you're a turkey.
    [ Parent ]
    Maybe if this gets voted up.. (none / 2) (#24)
    by cosmokramer on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 12:04:24 AM EST

    People will begin to realize how retarded the concept of "Homeland Security" is. How do you make people safer by instilling a massive fear of being attacked in them by the fact that when they walk through an airport there are military personnel with automatic weapons around. When massive walls are going up everywhere. Sorry for the rant. :)

    +1, but remember the "Cold War"? (2.00 / 5) (#33)
    by danharan on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 07:41:57 AM EST

    Don't get me wrong, this is a fine, well-researched, informative article, which is why it's a +1.

    But have I considered a Homeland Security career? Are you out of your bloody mind?

    I know folks who studied Russian while the wall came down. One of them ended up driving cab, another went into literature- not the incredible career prospects they had envisionned.

    Yeah, this is supposed to be a long-term war. And very few people could predict how fast the USSR would crumble.

    A bon entendeur, salut.

    re (none / 1) (#50)
    by tweetsygalore on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 03:48:50 PM EST


          ...have I considered a Homeland Security
          career?  Are you out of your bloody mind?

    how quotable.

    cheers!
    C
    After each perceived security crisis ended, the United States has remorsefully realised that the abrogation of civil liberties was unnecessary. But it has proven unable to prevent itself from repeating the error when the next crisis comes along. --- Justice William Brennan
    [ Parent ]

    Heh (none / 2) (#53)
    by imrdkl on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 04:12:01 PM EST

    That was the "hook", if you will. Given that the article, up until the last paragraph, was purely factual, I felt it needed a bit of spice. The general tone of the comments so far seems to bear out my assumption.

    [ Parent ]
    I like spice (none / 1) (#59)
    by danharan on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 05:17:55 PM EST

    I checked some of your previous stories before posting, and noticed that you weren't just a troll. So please look at my questions as spice too ;)

    It is a very good article, and generated interesting conversation to boot.

    [ Parent ]

    Great Scott (3.00 / 13) (#36)
    by bugmaster on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 08:37:02 AM EST

    Signs that your country is going to the crapper #128: when you can't tell a legitimate article from one of The Onion's spoof.

    Seriously... I was almost certain that all this stuff was A Modest Proposal (tm), until I clicked the links. Does this mean that the Bush administration has admitted (in a roundabout way) that the War on Terror (tm) will continue indefinitely (hence all the training) ? Maybe we shouldn't start unwinnable wars, then...
    >|<*:=

    continue indefinitely (2.75 / 4) (#38)
    by wiredog on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 08:55:46 AM EST

    Since 9/11 most people who look at the War On Tairists have said that it will be more like the Cold War than WW2. The Cold War lasted 50 years.

    Wilford Brimley scares my chickens.
    Phil the Canuck

    [ Parent ]
    One important factor (2.75 / 3) (#39)
    by nebbish on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 09:37:30 AM EST

    Is whether successive administrations will want to continue it. Fighting a war against "terror" would be by definition endless, but it's possible it could all end in November...

    ---------
    Kicking someone in the head is like punching them in the foot - Bruce Lee
    [ Parent ]

    Doubtful (2.50 / 4) (#48)
    by wiredog on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 03:10:11 PM EST

    We'll be in Afghanistan for 5 to 10 more years cleaning up that place and, having conquered it, there's a moral and legal need for the US to stay in Iraq for a while. And no US president is going to have the option to not go after al Quaeda for decades.

    Wilford Brimley scares my chickens.
    Phil the Canuck

    [ Parent ]
    moral need? (2.33 / 6) (#58)
    by danharan on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 05:12:35 PM EST

    There is no purpose that can be served by having the US stay in Iraq. None.

    Spend the money you would have spent on occupation and reconstruction and let the UN administer the program.

    Of course other UN countries will not want to go in if that money has strings attached- they would be seen as doing the US's bidding, and therefore a legitimate target for the resistance and fundies.

    Failure to go that route will almost inevitably result in hundreds of more casualties for the Americans alone- never mind those in the resistance or the civilians, more than 10,000 of whom have died to date because of this war.

    As for the "war on terrorists"... every other civilized country that has had to deal with similar issues polices terrorists. They don't go to war. They infiltrate, identify and take out key players.

    They do not go apeshit, killing 5-10 foreigners for everyone of their dead- that would feed the problem.

    To summarize: Get the UN in Iraq. Pay for it. Apologize for your crimes. Don't go soft on terrorists, but stop this war bullshit. If you have a president that can do that, you might regain your place in the international community. Right now, most of the civilized world thinks you're the biggest threat to world peace.

    [ Parent ]

    At Least (none / 2) (#60)
    by TheOnlyCoolTim on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 06:35:31 PM EST

    The Cold War had an easily definable enemy so it ended when the Soviet Union failed it.

    Tim
    "We are trapped in the belly of this horrible machine, and the machine is bleeding to death."
    [ Parent ]

    To an extent, yes (none / 1) (#72)
    by wiredog on Thu Feb 12, 2004 at 08:04:02 AM EST

    but there were sub-enemies, if you will. Various Soviet client states and allies. North Korea (which is still there), China (sort of, sometimes, and still a worry), Libya. Vietnam, Cambodia. The Shining Path lasted after the fall of the USSR, as did the Sandinistas. Cuba is still there and is another place where US policy is screwed up. The rise of the Taliban is fallout from the Cold War.

    Wilford Brimley scares my chickens.
    Phil the Canuck

    [ Parent ]
    You too can be a gestapo goon! (2.00 / 6) (#47)
    by keelerbeez on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 03:01:52 PM EST

    haven't we seen this before?

    -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
    GAT d? s++:+ a- C++++$ UBS*++++$ P--- L+>++ E--- W- !N !o !K w+++(---)$ M+ PS+++ PE(--) Y+ PGP t++@ 5++ X+ R* tv(+) b+++ DI++ !G !e h* r*% y++++**
    ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
    this smells like propaganda (none / 2) (#49)
    by tweetsygalore on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 03:47:22 PM EST


    is this supposed to be satire or something?

    creepy
    C
    After each perceived security crisis ended, the United States has remorsefully realised that the abrogation of civil liberties was unnecessary. But it has proven unable to prevent itself from repeating the error when the next crisis comes along. --- Justice William Brennan

    Just the facts, maam (none / 0) (#51)
    by imrdkl on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 04:02:14 PM EST

    The last sentence can be safely ignored, however.

    [ Parent ]
    ok (none / 1) (#85)
    by tweetsygalore on Thu Feb 12, 2004 at 10:25:13 PM EST


    cool.  cheers to the first amendment.

    best
    C
    After each perceived security crisis ended, the United States has remorsefully realised that the abrogation of civil liberties was unnecessary. But it has proven unable to prevent itself from repeating the error when the next crisis comes along. --- Justice William Brennan
    [ Parent ]

    I wonder if (none / 2) (#55)
    by The Terrorists on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 04:30:29 PM EST

    like a "white hat hacker" I or my ilk can get a job in this field?

    Watch your mouth, pigfucker. -- Rusty Foster

    Ah.. I was wondering.. (2.75 / 8) (#57)
    by Kwil on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 05:10:45 PM EST

    ..when we'd see the resurgance of the Jungvolk and Jungmädel

    Nice to see things proceeding according to time honored traditions.

    That Jesus Christ guy is getting some terrible lag... it took him 3 days to respawn! -NJ CoolBreeze


    -1 resection humor (none / 2) (#63)
    by coderlemming on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 07:20:54 PM EST

    ...this is humor, right?

    sigh


    --
    Go be impersonally used as an organic semen collector!  (porkchop_d_clown)

    No, not humor (none / 0) (#77)
    by imrdkl on Thu Feb 12, 2004 at 12:39:39 PM EST

    But you can laugh if it makes you feel better.

    [ Parent ]
    I can't believe my eyes (2.80 / 5) (#64)
    by Maljin Jolt on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 08:16:33 PM EST

    I remember that wording very well.

    I have read such bullshits in daily news for twenty years of my life spent behind iron curtain under COMMUNISM.

    Is America going to become some totalitarian third world country or what?


    3rd World? (2.60 / 5) (#66)
    by jameth on Thu Feb 12, 2004 at 12:40:35 AM EST

    I'm more worried about the USA becoming a totalitarian 1st world nation. If the US were 3rd world, the rest of the world would tell my president to shut up, and we would have been ass-whomped by the UN for dicking around in Iraq.

    Instead, we're a first world nation and the rest of the world just keeps getting stepped on, so Bush just keeps stepping. I try to do something to make him stop, but I fear he tends to ignore me. Instead, he listens to the corporations and the church.

    [ Parent ]

    You know he's for real because... (none / 1) (#73)
    by waxmop on Thu Feb 12, 2004 at 09:04:44 AM EST

    He said he remembers such bullshits very well.

    Mockery aside, I think Maljin Jolt makes a good point. We're trending towards a society full of mistrust and fear.
    --
    We are a monoculture of horsecock. Liar
    [ Parent ]

    Welcome (none / 2) (#69)
    by jope on Thu Feb 12, 2004 at 06:17:09 AM EST

    Welcome to a country of paranoia. Welcome to totalitarianism. Welcome to giving up your freedom for fear. Report any supsects to your next Blockwart from the Homeland Security Office.

    Wait... (none / 1) (#71)
    by beredon on Thu Feb 12, 2004 at 07:57:11 AM EST

    A hands-on training course with weapons of mass destruction? Heh, I have to see this. :)

    Coming soon (none / 2) (#75)
    by imrdkl on Thu Feb 12, 2004 at 10:38:15 AM EST

  • WMD202 - Care and feeding of toxic pathogens and viruses

    [ Parent ]
  • the real funny thing is (none / 3) (#79)
    by minerboy on Thu Feb 12, 2004 at 01:54:12 PM EST

    that the programs don't really work with WMD's - the see powerpoint slides about WMD, and they may use chemical analogues of WMD that are not harmful.

    And consider this - It's likely that none of the students will ever have to use their training, so there will be no way to tell if their learning is worth a crap or not - in fact, it probably doesn't have to be worth a crap.

    My experience has been that the certificate programs offered by community colleges has pretty low quality control. I've seen people with MS Office certiciates that couldn't write an equation in excel, so if the WMD stuff is equal in quality . . .



    [ Parent ]
    Generalizations are just as low-quality (none / 2) (#82)
    by imrdkl on Thu Feb 12, 2004 at 06:57:22 PM EST

    as insufficiency. You've been accused of elitism already elsewhere in this article, and I'm beginning to understand what that fellow meant. Community colleges can, in spite of your assertions, provide a valuable and sufficient education, if the student is willing to put forth the effort. Whether your experience dictates otherwise is completely irrelevant, since MS Office has very little to do with WMD's or security.

    I see you overexerting yourself a bit on this article, for some reason. The tone of the commentary, except for your casual dismissals, has been appropriate - perhaps you should read the article again.

    [ Parent ]

    overexerting ? (none / 2) (#84)
    by minerboy on Thu Feb 12, 2004 at 09:48:58 PM EST

    Maybe so, suffice it to say I have intimate knowledge of some similar programs, and have been very frustrated in any attempts to redirect institutional finances in a direction I believe to be more appropriate. Perhaps that frustration was coming out in my posts

    I don't know if its elitist to point out that community colleges often have deficiencies in their programs. Clearly, different universities have different standards for their students, and community college standards are often pretty low, particularly certificate programs. Of course not all CC programs are the same, and your right, an aggressive student can get an acceptable education at a community college.

    The workplace is usually the final judge of a good education, though. I find it interesting to note that students in WMD related programs will most likely never have that knowledge tested, which makes such programs much easier to scam.



    [ Parent ]
    Wow! (none / 2) (#76)
    by Alhazred on Thu Feb 12, 2004 at 11:41:15 AM EST

    This program will give seed money to fund job training partnerships between community colleges and local high-growth industries.

    So this is going to be a lot like the 'No Child Left Behind' thing.... I'm excited, my state tax dollars can once again be pick-pocketed by some idiotic ill-conceived federal mandate that doesn't work for crap and is only intended to sound good in Duh Boy's sound bites.

    The system is horsecrap. I say nobody vote this year. 0.0% turnout. Lets see how they spin that.


    That is not dead which may eternal lie And with strange aeons death itself may die.
    Egocentric America (none / 3) (#80)
    by virtualjay222 on Thu Feb 12, 2004 at 02:37:39 PM EST

    Terrorism Risk Assessment - learning to think like the perpetrators of these heinous crimes.

    Personally, I feel that if we really understood how they think, we would have been able to resolve our differences long ago. Instead, we insist that our own ideas are correct (whether it be Israel, commercialism, etc). Then again, I'm not familiar with their perspective first hand, so I'm not really in a position to speculate.

    ---

    I'm not in denial, I'm just selective about the reality I choose to accept.

    -Calvin and Hobbes


    Hmm! (none / 3) (#87)
    by valeko on Fri Feb 13, 2004 at 02:40:18 PM EST

    Amidst this twilight of confusion and bored existential wandering, an incisive ray of light pierces the malefic cloud cover. I bathe in the warm splendour of enlightenment.

    Thank you for shaking a career option for me out of the trees. I heed your command, "Go forth and become a homeland security professional."

    "Hey, what's sanity got going for it anyways?" -- infinitera, on matters of the heart

    Go in peace (none / 0) (#89)
    by imrdkl on Fri Feb 13, 2004 at 05:20:33 PM EST

    (nt)

    [ Parent ]
    Euphamism? (none / 2) (#88)
    by nsayer on Fri Feb 13, 2004 at 04:36:39 PM EST

    I thought "Homeland Security Professional" was a euphamism for "Security Guard."


    Bush's joke (none / 2) (#90)
    by losang on Sun Feb 15, 2004 at 10:25:44 AM EST

    Bush's program to fund community colleges is a joke. Anyone close to the technology field knowns that the level of technological study at communit college is not research based. They are basically button pushers. The real research comes from people at the university level. Here is where the future of American technological innovation is. By funding communit college he is insulting anyone who knows the first thing about technology.

    At the same time he is happy to let American companeis outsource their hi-tech work overseas. In particular India. What does this mean for American's hi-tech industry? I know first hand that programming work is going to India because they pay about 1/10 the salary.

    So I ask you to think about Bush's actions and not just the words. Why would he allow our hi-tech jobs to go overseas and then say he is going to fund technology at community college. It may sound good to those who don't know the field but for those who do I think it is obviousl a joke.

    Revolutionary solution to terrorism (none / 1) (#91)
    by losang on Sun Feb 15, 2004 at 10:28:02 AM EST

    I you don' want to be the victim of terrorism stop commiting it.

    Most stupid phrase (none / 0) (#92)
    by Kuranes on Sun Feb 15, 2004 at 02:43:35 PM EST

    The second focus is upon civic responsibility, which helps the student learn to meet community needs, increase community involvement, and develop a sense of caring for others, and generally become a better citizen.

    Oh yes, I just wrote history's shortest Ethics:

    BE GOOD!

    I suppose those colleges all know what it takes to be a better citizen - they got it told by Homeland Security.


    "To say that good ideas would be those 'that work', simply means to accept in advance the (global-capitalist) constellation which decrees what can "work" at all (for example, if you spend too much money on education or medicare, it 'just doesn't work' because it interferes too much with the fundamentals of capitalist rentability)."
    - Slavoj Zizek, The Ticklish Subject


    Gentlemen, Chicolini here may talk like an idiot, and look like an idiot, but don't let that fool you: he really is an idiot.
    Insightful (none / 0) (#93)
    by imrdkl on Sun Feb 15, 2004 at 06:20:30 PM EST

    It's good to see that someone is reading carefully.

    [ Parent ]
    thanks for the compliment /nt (none / 0) (#94)
    by Kuranes on Tue Feb 17, 2004 at 06:37:13 AM EST




    Gentlemen, Chicolini here may talk like an idiot, and look like an idiot, but don't let that fool you: he really is an idiot.
    [ Parent ]
    Educating the Homelander - Towards a Secure Future | 95 comments (91 topical, 4 editorial, 4 hidden)
    Display: Sort:

    kuro5hin.org

    [XML]
    All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. The Rest 2000 - Present Kuro5hin.org Inc.
    See our legalese page for copyright policies. Please also read our Privacy Policy.
    Kuro5hin.org is powered by Free Software, including Apache, Perl, and Linux, The Scoop Engine that runs this site is freely available, under the terms of the GPL.
    Need some help? Email help@kuro5hin.org.
    My heart's the long stairs.

    Powered by Scoop create account | help/FAQ | mission | links | search | IRC | YOU choose the stories!