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[P]
k5 Bootcamp (or Why k5 is not /.)

By kraant in Op-Ed
Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 10:03:45 PM EST
Tags: Kuro5hin.org (all tags)
Kuro5hin.org

Since the return there have been many stirrings among the great old ones.

The s/n ratio is at an all time low with the first flush of newbies in the spring. (Note this is probably only relevant as a reference to people in the southern hemisphere.)

So here are some suggestions on how to write articles to ensure kuro5hin remains a superior source of news and discussion.


No more half arsed one paragraph excuses for an articles. Remember folks if you ain't providing content then it ain't gunna create much discussion or thought. And realy, if it ain't gunna do that then what's the point in it. As far as keeping up with the newest glitzy useless website or technology there's plenty of other places that will do that far better than here

'Cos kuro5hin is unique and that uniquness is a damn good thing. But that uniqueness imposes certain limitations. One of the most obvious ones that still manages to get ignored is that it takes time for an article to get through moderation. Now what does this mean?...

This means that by the time it gets to the front page that groundbreaking news you spent three seconds writing a couple of sentences for and submitting is now old hat...

Think about it for a second... by the time the news reaches the front page everyone and their kid brother already know about it. That means you're much better writing of an in-depth analysis of whatever it is that you want to talk about.

For example for a software release try it out first before writing an article about it... then you can give it a proper review instead of telling us "foo version 8 has been released by foobar.com" that way we are getting information that none of the other newsites -- fixated upon getting the scoop before everyone else -- ever bothers giving. The softwares usage, performance and general feel. And if you're realy lucky you might find some issues about the software that realy does make the article a scoop.

Similarly for current affairs or morality issues... don't just give us a paragraph pointing at an article ala' thatothersite. Give us content, give us your opinion... Give us something we can mull over and think and talk about. (And no rehashing the opinion that 50 million /.ers regurgitate everytime the topic comes up doesn't count.)

And all of you webmasters out there looking for free promotion. Don't just copy your press release. Make it interesting for us the population of k5. We have no obligation to post your article but if you make it interesting and discussion worthy we might be bothered voting it onto the webpage...

While I'm ranting on about this there's a couple of things that have been bothering me...

  1. Why can't people rewrite articles? I've seen plenty of articles that had potential but were lacking in content or style, and despite the constructive critisism stating that the article had been voted down but that it would be voted up if these were fixed a corrected article never appears in the queue.
  2. For Editorial comments comment early comment often. Writing an article here is a co-operative effort and it's in everyones best interests to make the article as close to perfect as is humanely possible. So everyone do your damnedest to put your editorial two cents in. And authors read your editorial comments. Perhaps you'll learn something.
  3. And last but not least read through the old articles there's some true gems in there. Just like any other online forum k5 has it's own individual feel. Respect that because otherwise it's gone and then a large part of it's charm is gone.

In conclusion I would like to remind people that both editors@kuro5hin.org and slashnets #kuro5hin are a good place to get some feedback on your article before you submit it to the moderation queue. :)

ps. remember the FAQ

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Display: Sort:
k5 Bootcamp (or Why k5 is not /.) | 44 comments (44 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Finally... (4.06 / 15) (#1)
by GandalfGreyhame on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 08:40:48 PM EST

Finally, someone said it! And probably a lot more politely than I would've too :)

To me, the whole point of Kuro5hin is the discussions. There's That Other Site for all the breaking news. I really haven't seen that much discussion on that other site - just a bunch of people flaming each other- and that's fine with me because I go to TOS for headlines.

K5 on the other hand, I've found that while it dosen't have hardly any breaking news, it DOES have meaningful discussion. Lets keep it that way, and not turn it into another /.

- G

Re: Finally... (3.80 / 5) (#3)
by the coose on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 10:21:13 PM EST

Lets keep it that way, and not turn it into another /.

Great comment...until this poke at /. Personally I read both; I think they complement each other. I go to /. for breaking news and here for discussion. You can read interesting comments at /. as well. Just not that much interesting discussion (a lot of flaming, as you said).

Why don't we just drop the jabs at The Other Site? The only way it will ...turn into another /. is if the readers let it and I don't see that happening. Your post would suggest that.

[ Parent ]
Re: Finally... (3.00 / 5) (#7)
by GandalfGreyhame on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 11:29:40 PM EST

I thought I made myself clear, but apparently not. I like /. . It does a very good job of being a headline news site. "Discussions" on /. however are, more often than not, just a long series of flames attacking one another's opinion. K5 is not, and in my mind should not, be a news site. Its a discussion site. I don't want K5 to drift over into /.'s territory. /. does its job well, and K5 does its job well. Lets no blur the line, and degrade K5.

[ Parent ]
Re: Finally... (3.00 / 5) (#8)
by GandalfGreyhame on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 11:35:40 PM EST

A post script. When I say degrade K5, I don't mean to imply that /. is bad. Rather, that K5's purpose has been discussions, /. 's has been news, and that trying to be a bit of everything is a Bad Thing. Best to do one thing, and do it extremely well. I think I've made myself clear now. I hope. If I've muddled things even more, just slap me around a bit more ;)

[ Parent ]
On the other hand... (3.40 / 15) (#2)
by cesarb on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 08:45:21 PM EST

I would like to say, "Welcome".

For all the newbies who are reading this, and want to contribute, helping us make this site a better place.

Huh? (1.75 / 16) (#4)
by plastik55 on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 10:27:41 PM EST

Enlighten me, you elitis*COUGH*COUGH*. What, pray tell, is MLP?
w00t!
Re: Huh? (4.00 / 3) (#6)
by robgrant on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 11:08:37 PM EST

Mindless Link Propagation--essentially the "check out this link" section.
"You can't get that stuff in Holland" --Mike Portnoy
[ Parent ]
Some thoughts (4.36 / 11) (#5)
by robgrant on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 11:07:20 PM EST

I whole-heartedly agree with your first point. Having been a Slashdot reader for quite some time, I must say that I dislike the fact that--for most headlines--the majority of the useful information is located in the comments. If the author of a story can write no more than 2-3 sentences, it may not be worth posting at all. Of course, there are exceptions--an occasional brief headline is acceptable, but most should be much greater in length and development.

Software release announcements DEFINATELY do not belong here. That's why we have freshmeat ;) Of course, readers have to know about software before they can review it, but why post the announcements here when there's another site dedicated to that?

Overall, I agree with you strongly. kuro5hin should be, above all, intellectually stimulating. Sadly, very few Slashdot articles can make that claim these days.
"You can't get that stuff in Holland" --Mike Portnoy
Another thing (2.44 / 9) (#9)
by Dacta on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 11:48:48 PM EST

If you have a story you really want to see posted, save it for a weekend. Usually, the submission queue tends to thin out a lot, and by Sunday it is often empty. That's a great time to get it in there - as people go back to work/school they are more likely to vote it in if everything else on the front page has already been discussed.



the first time I saw K5... (4.25 / 12) (#10)
by madams on Tue Sep 19, 2000 at 11:50:20 PM EST

I can't even recall how I first came to K5. Maybe it was a link from /. or Advogato. At first a wrote it off as just another weblog.

It took me a few visits to get pulled in. And you know what did it? Honestly? The look of the site. The colors. The topic icons. The layout and the coolness of it. I realized that this Rusty guy really had a different vision for his site.

But that vision when deaper than just pretty pixels. Kuro5hin was a discussion weblog, not just a news site or a /.-wannabee.

Kudos to kraant for giving such eloquent guidelines to the new visitors.

And remember, K5 is a better site because we've made it that way.

Welcome to the family.

--
Mark Adams
"But pay no attention to anonymous charges, for they are a bad precedent and are not worthy of our age." - Trajan's reply to Pliny the Younger, 112 A.D.

Re: k5 bootcamp (1.44 / 9) (#11)
by mutende on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 12:07:58 AM EST

The s/n ratio is at an all time low
Shouldn't that read ``is at an all time high''?
  //Mutende
-- 
Unselfish actions pay back better
Re: k5 bootcamp (3.80 / 5) (#13)
by GandalfGreyhame on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 12:47:27 AM EST

As I read it, low signal, high noise. I think kraant's correct.

[ Parent ]
Re: k5 bootcamp (1.00 / 4) (#33)
by Paul Dunne on Thu Sep 21, 2000 at 07:20:49 AM EST

Well of course you're entitled to read it any way you want. But what "s/n ratio at an all-time low" *says* is, that the s/n ratio is low, indeed at an all-time low. A low sound/noise ratio means that there is not much noise relative to sound. This is the opposite of what the guy *meant* to say, which was, I presume, that the S/N ratio is very high, i.e. a lot of noise relative to sound. Here endeth the pedantry.
http://dunne.home.dhs.org/
[ Parent ]
No, do the math. (3.00 / 2) (#35)
by bkosse on Thu Sep 21, 2000 at 08:25:38 AM EST

As you increase signal or decrease noise, the s/n ratio gets higher. A high signal/noise (signal divided by noise) is good.

Yes, it's frequently abused so people say high s/n ratio when they mean lots of noise, little signal, but that's a high n/s ratio.
-- Ben Kosse
[ Parent ]

Re: No, do the math. (3.66 / 3) (#36)
by Paul Dunne on Thu Sep 21, 2000 at 08:48:50 AM EST

I did the math, but I interpreted it the opposite way. For example, I understood a S/N ratio of say 1:30 as being a high ratio, i.e. a big difference between quotient and divisor, and say 1:2 as being a low ration, because of the low difference between same. I take it I'm wrong, then?
http://dunne.home.dhs.org/
[ Parent ]
Well, in short, yes you are wrong. (5.00 / 2) (#37)
by bkosse on Thu Sep 21, 2000 at 11:52:50 AM EST

There's nothing to do with the difference between the quotient and the divisor, just the result of doing the math.

Think of it this way, a 30/1 S/N ratio is high, but by your logic so is a 1/30 S/N, but in reality 1/30 means there's 30 times as much noise as signal, thus a low amount of signal in comparison to noise.
-- Ben Kosse
[ Parent ]

Re: k5 bootcamp (3.50 / 4) (#38)
by El Volio on Thu Sep 21, 2000 at 02:09:57 PM EST

"S/N" means "Signal to Noise", not "Sound to Noise". It's a fundamental technical term in information theory and a lot of other fields.

[ Parent ]
Re: k5 bootcamp (4.00 / 2) (#34)
by techt on Thu Sep 21, 2000 at 07:24:09 AM EST

Think of it this way:

signal strength / noise strength
For a fixed noise and variable signal strength: as signal approaches infinity, the result approaches infinity. For a fixed signal and variable noise strength: as noise approaches infinity, the result approaches zero. Therefore a low result would mean a high noise level.


--
Proud member of the Electronic Frontier Foundation!
Are You? http://www.eff.org/support/joineff.html
[ Parent ]
Random thoughts from a newbie (4.16 / 12) (#12)
by Vetinari8 on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 12:35:18 AM EST

I knew of this site through a friend of mine, however a couple weeks after I got my login and before I could get more in-depth to what the site was about, k5 went down.

In the interim, at That Other Site I got a taste of moderation -- but only three times. It was the only time I ever felt like my input mattered (and one of the only times I ever got out of 'articles rated at 4 only please' mode. Heh). Sure, I could post a comment, but not being a SlashAddict it'd be around, oh, 467th or so.

Recently I've been pleasantly surprised by k5. It is indeed much more of a discussion forum, which is quite refreshing. Plus the editorial comments, sections, and voting on stories is a new idea to me. :) The discussion here feels more multi-way than on Slashdot -- there it was "post something and maybe get moderated". Here it's more, I don't know, everybody (well, with a login) can participate more.

I'm pretty happy with k5. I've found myself reserving Slashdot to my AfterStep menu or similar, just for the headlines, and waiting for the more relevant gems (rare indeed) to make it to k5 for some real discussion.

Hmmm. That's about it. I think this site is great. I wish I'd known about it a longer time before.

--
"But this one goes to eleven."
-- Nigel Tufnel


Re: "Why can't people rewrite articles? " (4.61 / 13) (#14)
by Inoshiro on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 01:09:37 AM EST

If there's a problem with the article, mail me (Inoshiro@kuro5hin.org) or Rusty (Rusty@kuro5hin.org). We'll go and edit up the story for the people :-) Don't worry, we intend to make a new feature where people can edit their own articles after the fact and put it in Scoop.



--
[ イノシロ ]
Don't think article editing is a good idea... (4.00 / 6) (#16)
by GandalfGreyhame on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 02:16:12 AM EST

The reason I don't think its a good idea is because if an article needs to be re-written, I'll vote it down. If you get an article with potential but needs serious work, then I'll still vote it down, and comment as such. What happens to my vote then, when it gets re-written? Now I might be voting down an article that's turned into a good one.

Here's an idea that just came to me. Don't know how much work it'd involve though. Where the "Moderate Submissions (1e20 New)" link is, have that "Moderate Submissions (2e6 new, 10e20 revised)". For revised stories, you could change your vote. Thoughts on that?

-G

[ Parent ]

Process: submit, vote, pull/resubmit, vote (4.00 / 7) (#17)
by kmself on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 03:30:10 AM EST

I agree that if an article is resubmitted, the existing votes on it can't be taken into account -- the content and basis for voting has changed.

What I'd like to see is a mechanism which essentially automates the process of:

  • having an author cancel a submission
  • create a new submission
  • link from the old (cancelled) submission to the new one, indicating "this post was cancelled by the author, a revised post is available <link>here</link>", or similar.
  • link from the new (resubmitted) article to the old one, indicating "this post was redrafted from <link>this</link> original post".

...Would something like that address your concerns?

--
Karsten M. Self
SCO -- backgrounder on Caldera/SCO vs IBM
Support the EFF!!
There is no K5 cabal.
[ Parent ]

Re: Process: submit, vote, pull/resubmit, vote (2.25 / 4) (#18)
by GandalfGreyhame on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 03:32:57 AM EST

This sounds good. And I'm too tired to think of anything better ;) Go for it, if the powers-that-be agree

-G

[ Parent ]

Re: Process: submit, vote, pull/resubmit, vote (2.66 / 3) (#25)
by Arkady on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 01:32:51 PM EST

I think this is probably a better way as well. It keeps the original up, but puts the author in charge of the decision whether to rewrite and sets up a new vote queue for the rewritten story. If we had voting, I'd vote for this one.

-robin

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere Anarchy is loosed upon the world.


[ Parent ]
or how bout (none / 0) (#44)
by nodsmasher on Wed Mar 20, 2002 at 08:53:40 PM EST

how bout have a 5th option of -1 neads re-right that would be reset to unread if any editorial changes were made
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Most people don't realise just how funny cannibalism can actually be.
-Tatarigami
[ Parent ]
Re: Don't think article editing is a good idea... (4.00 / 3) (#29)
by Derek Moeller on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 07:46:26 PM EST

One idea out there that has been in the "United Nations"-type of conglomeration of delegates/people is to vote on changing content. It works well, though it involves some majorly different discussion architecture, which may be what makes it work well.

At first, the document (article, bill, whatever) is submitted for review. Then, there are affirmative and negatory speeches that are made, maybe this is represented by commenting in K5, maybe we can just ignore that for this purpose. In between speeches, proposals are taken for modifying the document - changing wording, whether it alters the meaning of the document, provides increased clarity, or any one of many other intents. Each proposal is taken and voted on. Also during this time, the voting body is allowed to propose ending the discussion and modification process and bring it to a vote - to "call the previous question," as I believe they state it. That proposal is then voted on, if it is approved, the document is called to a vote, if not, it continues the modification/speech cycle. Finally, it is agreed to vote on it, and then it has a final chance to be approved or disapproved. This process would obviously have to be modified for an online system.

The problem, of course, comes with the fact that in this system, voting on the document comes last, a method that can't work in an online system where votes are a variable (but always extant) stream. One possible idea to solve this is that people could be notified on the front page if a document they voted on has undergone a modification. The user can go to a special area, where it shows them the changes made in the document (diff anyone?), and then gives them a choice to reconcile the vote and vote the other way, or to keep with their previous decision. Any votes that have not been reconsidered (and either kept or recalled) could be considered null and void, or perhaps counted at half-value in comparison to other votes for the final decision.

Ideas on that system? Would it involve too much hassle? Possible ways to streamline it more?
-- Derek Moeller
[ Parent ]
Good Fscking Rant (4.37 / 16) (#15)
by TheDude on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 01:23:19 AM EST

Damn nice rant, kraant. Heh. Seriously, though.

What I always loved about K5 was the stories. They weren't the new-release of this, new-problem with this, new-article here dry stories of slashdot. They had opinions, they were about real issues, they were real stories. They made you think, then post your thoughts in the comments.

Now I'm seeing loads of stories that are more slashdotty. Big hypey news stories with no thought given to an actual article about the news. Just here's this thing, the end. They don't inspire thought, they don't become discussion-generating articles, they just get passed by (or on /., trolled).

Please, authors, submit some real stories and opinion pieces to K5. They make for a much more interesting, useful, and fun site.

--
TheDude of Smokedot
Drug Info, Rights, Laws, and Discussion
Visit #smokedot on irc.smokedot.org

Re: Good Fscking Rant (1.75 / 4) (#21)
by El Volio on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 10:56:50 AM EST

I'm hoping this dies down after a few days. After the initial /.ing from the story post, and people get bored with it, most will leaves, while the ones who like the culture here will stay. K5 is distinct from /. in its approach to discussion, and whereas I enjoy /. and read it pretty frequently, the two are different and should stay that way.

[ Parent ]
Editorial comments (3.72 / 11) (#19)
by Potsy on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 05:28:14 AM EST

On the topic of "editorial" comments...

One personal pet peeve of mine is that people constantly misuse and/or ignore the editorial/topical comment distinction. I always see editorial comments marked as story comments, and vice-versa.

C'mon folks. Don't just apply that little popup menu at random, make sure you mark it correctly. Your comments won't reach the right audience otherwise.

Re: Editorial comments (2.00 / 1) (#28)
by xah on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 06:56:07 PM EST

Let's step back for a second. Is there a huge difference between the meaning of "comment" and the meaning of "editorial"? I don't think so.

The Scoop meisters should get rid of this distinction. It does not add any value to the experience of the K5 reader.

[ Parent ]

Editorial vs Topical comments (4.20 / 5) (#30)
by kraant on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 08:09:14 PM EST

Editorial comment :

  • You miss-spelled "foo"
  • One of your Hyperlinks is broken
  • -1 This is not the appropriate topic/ forum for this article
etc etc...

Topical comment

  • Yes foo is a very interesting way of approaching things I did it myself in bar circumstances
etc.

Borderline

  • Their is a factual error in this article, foo existed long before you say that it did
etc.

For borderline comments it's probably best to make them Editorial while they are in the moderation queue to give the author a heads up on what to fix... while if it is already on the front/section page make it a Topical comment

HTH
--
"kraant, open source guru" -- tumeric
Never In Our Names...
[ Parent ]

Story Subs (2.28 / 7) (#20)
by schporto on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 08:32:22 AM EST

Maybe there should be either a section "Press Release", or some way to mod a story submission in that direction. Basically allowing for the posting of those messages, but only to those who care to actually see them. -cpd

Preview! (3.50 / 6) (#22)
by eann on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 11:40:26 AM EST

There's a reason that "Preview" button is there, people. It's not to let you know what your comment/article will look like. It's there so you can proofread your work.

Yeah, we all make grammar mistakes and typos and stuff. English is a difficult language for native speakers, and even more so for those who learned something else first. I wouldn't even advocate trying to use perfect standard English for everything, 'cos I use contractions and colloquialisms here, too. Be aware that the audience here includes those who aren't fluent, and those who would quote you to make a point elsewhere (including the national press).

For native speakers, it's possible to catch most of the simple problems if you actually read what you wrote instead of skimming and saying "yeah, that looks okay, and all the links have the light-blue of having been visited, so I'm sure they work." There's currently an article doing fairly well in the submission queue that has an obvious typo in its title.

By being careful (but hopefully not overly self-conscious), I think we can communicate better. I don't want to discourage posts; I'd rather read any non-native attempt at English than someone who's just sloppy.

Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men. —MLK

$email =~ s/0/o/; # The K5 cabal is out to get you.


Re: Preview! (2.00 / 2) (#24)
by Arkady on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 01:26:55 PM EST

As the fellow who committed the "obvious typo", I'd like to take this opportunity to abjectly apologize. I have no clue how the "t" ended up at the end of the title, since I pasted it into the form. I usually edit my posts in a text editor and paste into the K5 form, so I don't usually proofread on the site. I'm going to start now, though.

The "Post" button on the preview page doesn't work from my browser either (Net+), so I always have to hit the "Back" button and repaste to submit anything. I have no idea how the offending HTML ("<FORM NAME="postcomment" ACTION="/#here" METHOD="POST">") is supposed to work, since as far as I know "#" references always go to the current page, but it obviously works for Rusty ... ;-)

-robin

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere Anarchy is loosed upon the world.


[ Parent ]
Re: Preview! (1.33 / 3) (#27)
by eann on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 04:01:56 PM EST

Arkady,

Just so it's clear, I wasn't actually attacking you personally for being sloppy. I was pointing to your munged title as an example of what happens when we are sloppy.

Other than that, I think I voted for the story. I've wanted k-boxen for awhile. :)

Oh, and I'm posting this comment without previewing it. :)

Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men. —MLK

$email =~ s/0/o/; # The K5 cabal is out to get you.


[ Parent ]
Re: Preview! (2.00 / 2) (#31)
by Arkady on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 09:53:05 PM EST

No worries. I have no illusions on whether I'm fallible or not, and I honestly hadn't noticed that "t" in the title till it was commented upon. It's kind of embarrassing for me to make that sort of error on my firt post after K5 comes back. Humbling, really.

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere Anarchy is loosed upon the world.


[ Parent ]
Spell check (1.00 / 2) (#32)
by kmself on Thu Sep 21, 2000 at 02:53:00 AM EST

Any possibility that a post can be run through ispell or spell so that the author can at least get a list of potentially misspelled words after previewing an article?

--
Karsten M. Self
SCO -- backgrounder on Caldera/SCO vs IBM
Support the EFF!!
There is no K5 cabal.
[ Parent ]

Just a comment from N. Random Newbie... (1.62 / 8) (#23)
by A. Nut on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 12:01:55 PM EST

Just wanted to say that this is the second day I've been in K5 (didn't really know about it until /. said it was down... :(, anyway, I think K5 is a much better discussion area.

But hey, as long as I can get away from Natalie Portman, Penis Birds, Emily Dickenson, and First Posts!, is OK with me !

Keep up the good work, Rusty.
You should reverse the fish in my e-mail address

Re: Just a comment from N. Random Newbie... (2.33 / 3) (#26)
by Crag on Wed Sep 20, 2000 at 02:55:02 PM EST

If you browse slashdot with a threshold of 3 you will never see any off-topic comments unless they are INCREDIBLY interesting or funny.

How do I set my threshold here? How do I set my default formatting (plain text)?

[ Parent ]
Re: Just a comment from N. Random Newbie... (3.25 / 4) (#39)
by El Volio on Thu Sep 21, 2000 at 02:14:29 PM EST

AFAIK, there *is* no threshold here. Penis bird/hot grits/naked & petrified comments aren't even allowed. Unlike /., the admins at K5 will delete such posts. When you post a comment, there's even a little blurb:

Spamming is not tolerated here. Any comment may be deleted by a site admin, and all spammers will be deleted. This is fair warning. If you don't know what spamming is, then you're probably not about to do it, so don't worry. But you can read the definition in The Jargon File if you were wondering (particularly number 2). :-)

I'm not saying one is right and the other wrong, but it's two different approaches to the same problem (thresholds vs. deletes). I do tend to set my view to "Unrated first, then highest" on K5 and my threshold to +3 on /.

[ Parent ]

Thresholds (2.00 / 1) (#42)
by kmself on Fri Sep 22, 2000 at 12:34:23 AM EST

Thresholds haven't been implemented. I'm plugging for it, though it hasn't been coded. Not sure where Rusty's at with it. I think it would be a Good Thing. Both to filter out the crud and (when I'm in a charitable state of mind) to mine through to find stuff unfairly modded down.

I am seeing a number of posts slammed at '1' which IMO are unfairly rated (and not just my own ;-). I don't know if we're seeing moderation spamming or just an honest difference of opinion.

--
Karsten M. Self
SCO -- backgrounder on Caldera/SCO vs IBM
Support the EFF!!
There is no K5 cabal.
[ Parent ]

Heh, not that simple. (4.00 / 5) (#40)
by DeepDarkSky on Thu Sep 21, 2000 at 07:55:01 PM EST

I liked this little write-up, and though I'm not one of the old-time k5ers, I can appreciate the sentiments expressed and have one thing to add: since it's community based, let the community decide. I don't think it truly matters what people post - it's up to the majority of the k5 community at the time of the posting to decide if they like it - if I think understand the principles behind k5 sufficiently. Meaning, whether something is appropriate or not, whether it's done properly or not, in someone's opinions, even if it's Rusty's opinion, it won't really matter, not as much as the collective opinions of the people who have the power to vote the story up or down.

So while I liked and appreciated this piece, I think it is good but not required. People will feel it out and understand it. People will learn to cooperate. The forum that is k5 and the laws of collective desires vs. individual desires will drive and constantly change k5, and that, to me, is what makes it all the more interesting.

I guess what I am also saying (at the risk of offending kraant, is that there's no need to be preachy and self-righteous, but I certainly enjoy it and respect your right to do so. It's oh-so-democratic, isn't it?

Re: Heh, not that simple. (5.00 / 2) (#41)
by kraant on Thu Sep 21, 2000 at 09:49:11 PM EST

*Katchink* *thump* *thud thud* *flame*

Nah only kidding :)

It's not like I'm holding a gun to peoples heads making them vote the way I think they should...

What I want (and what I perhaps didn't emphasise as much as I should) was that people should make a concerted effort at community building and doing their utter best.

This isn't an issue of whether people have the right to do otherwise--as this is already very clearly the case. Everyone has the right to do whatever they want on k5 as long as it isn't generating pure noise. I could have done a slightly less confrontational take on it like this excellent article. But what I wanted to make clear was that this is an issue seperate from rights it's about right and wrong.

That's why it sounds preachy because my article isn't just a polite suggestion it's a reminder of the principle of GIGO

Now lets ignore moral relativism (anyone can bring it up in their replies if they want but I want this to be an explanation on why making an actual effort is good not a 5 hour philosophy lecture) and have a look at what the site is and could be.

On kuro5hin you have a choice, just as with everything else in life you can choose between right or wrong. Because fundamentaly k5 is what you put into it.

  • You can run around and rate posts by arbitrary values such as their length, or you can read and comprehend them first and then rate them according to their value.
  • You can spend 10 minutes proof-reading over a long article you've written, or you can just hit submit and be done with it.
  • You can submit a MLP article that generates belly laughs or leads to something fascinating, or you can just submit a bit of fluff that thatothersite rejected.

These and many others are choices you can make. And at the heart of it all I wanted to remind people that they can make the right choice or the wrong choice.

This is not to say that everyone should vote like I do, write like I do and think as I do.

But what I want to make very clear is that putting effort and thought into what you do is the right choice as it benefits not only everybody else but also in the long term yourself.

Mediocrity is not an option it's a disaster.
--
"kraant, open source guru" -- tumeric
Never In Our Names...
[ Parent ]

Re: Heh, not that simple. (none / 0) (#43)
by DeepDarkSky on Sun Sep 24, 2000 at 11:37:38 PM EST

Hey, it's not like I even disagreed with what you said. My point, which you understood, was merely that people are fickle, the community is dynamic, that's what makes it interesting. Besides, I think it's easier to think of it this way: if you didn't have really crappy stuff to look at from time to time, you wouldn't appreciate the quality stuff as much. You'd take it for granted.

But you know what, I appreciate your effort to keep up the quality of k5. I myself wouldn't enjoy k5 as much if it wasn't for the quality of the posts as compared to other sites (yes, including the "obligatori-ly mentioned" other site) *sigh* the things people do.

[ Parent ]

k5 Bootcamp (or Why k5 is not /.) | 44 comments (44 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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