Comparing crime rates in countries is next to useless. In the EU, the crime rate varies significantly, and not necessarily in parity to gun laws.
(Not necessarily out of "parity" with gun laws, either.) You say this as if it makes any sense whatsoever. Not only is it extraordinarily useful to compare countries with gun control against countries without, you have no choice except to do so. You cant just pick and choose the data you want to ignore because it doesnt further your agenda.
Whether you like it or not, every country in the world that has gun control is safer than your own, on a per capita basis. That is the data that you are given to work with. It means something, not nothing, something. It measures how effective gun control is.
What that article did was compare crime before and after the passage of concealed carry laws, which is statistically more significant, because in ten years, the demographics won't change very much.
I dont even understand what it is you are trying to say here. In any case, that article definitely does not comparing anything remotely like gun control with its alternatives. Compare the effect of concealed weapon laws before and after the US enacts gun control and at that point you _may_ be
seen as converging upon some aspect of _this_ conversation. Like I said before, the effect of concealed weapon laws in a country awash with weapons is of little use to anyone. Why should it be awash with weapons to begin with?
What I was hoping to hear from you, or, indeed, any gun-control advocate is the 'here is a situation where gun-control was enacted and crime went significantly down' type of statistics
Every country that has gun control today did not have it at some point in their past. They elected to pass gun control laws. Those laws now work to their advantage.
I cannot compare the present day US of A with 100 year old societies before they enacted gun control. I know that is what you want, but I cannot do that and please forgive those societies for acting sooner rather than waiting while america drags it ass on the issue.
If you agree to limit yourself to something other than a useless thought experiment, look at australia. Even though the ink on Australia's gun laws is barely dry, they are already showing a positive effect. In 50 years, Australia will be as safe or safer than western europe and you will, no doubt, _still_ be demanding evidence that gun control works while you continue to pull bullets from the inert bodies of your children.
Other people have posted and refuted australian stats on this story. Reread those posts. Understand what it is that Australia has done. Understand when it is that they began doing it. Understand what they already have accomplished.
as I said, Switzerland has very free gun laws and lower crime than most of the world, including all of the EU
It doesnt matter what you said. Switzerland has very strict gun control. You should be so lucky as to have the level of gun control that Switzerland has.
[.. England is more dangerous than the US according to the NRA ..]
I'll defer to an englishman to debunk this patently false bullshit - I'm not really interested in researching counter statistics as I am in demonstrating invalid thinking.
Let me just say one thing: telling me that I will find anything the nra writes as interesting is true to the extent that I find clowns and propaganda interesting. I hope you didnt mean to suggest that I would actually find nra drivel informative or truthful. The NRA exists to repeal any and every, no matter how small, gun control initiative. They are an extremely biased source of information and they have long since lost any and all credibility in the minds of reasonable people.
Finally, constantly whining and upping the ante everytime someone presents reasonable evidence that gun control works does nothing to refute the hardcore evidence that _you_ refuse to control your _weapons_. You want irrefutable proof that controlling weapons is a good idea. Well, if the gun lobby is so damn smart, why dont they introduce irrefutable evidence that it isnt a good idea. These fickle tactics that the gun lobby employs can work both ways, you know.
So, given that every country in the civilized world that controls its weapons is safer than the US, why isnt it a good idea for the US to follow suit? Please cite "irrefutable evidence" (as per your constant whinging) that guns as consumer commodities is a good thing. Or that it isnt even not a bad thing.
_You_ are the most violent nation on earth. What do _you_ have to lose if you impose gun control for a few generations? Freedom? No. Your courts have already dismissed 2nd amndment arguements as incorrect. You are not more free than Canada. Not more free than Australia. Not more free than anyone. All you are is more dead. If you control your weapons, more of you will be alive.
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