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Discuss or Disgust Over Dog Meat? Yum!

By JChen in Op-Ed
Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 10:32:02 AM EST
Tags: Culture (all tags)
Culture

Are you repulsed by foreigners eating dogs? Offended that Fido might end up in dan gogi soup? After all, how could anyone betray man's best friend by chopping him up and serving your neighbors Kea So Joo?


My God! How could these people whom we thought were "civilized" practice such barbarism?! You take a look at Rover. He's playing with his rag toy and being his dumb self, but you love him anyways. No way you would butcher and chop him up. Yet that is just what people in the Korean peninsula, China, and other nations are doing. Such a savage custom! Dogs are intelligent. They are loyal. And they're just so good with some kimchi!

What recently brought the protestor-generated controversy to light again was the hosting of the World Cup in conjunction with Korean restaurants serving dog meat. Some of you might be scratching your heads: what's wrong with dog meat?

Self-professed animal lovers would love to point out how dogs are butchered and sold with cold heartedness. Countless movies have depicted dogs saving people's lives, and even capable of doing such intelligent things as playing basketball and chess. How could anyone bear to eat Lassie's friends?

Yet these are inherently Western values. I do profess that the idea of eating dog meat personally stirs some uncomfortable emotions, yet what is much more important here is not about eating dogs, but paying respect to foreign cultures and their practices.

The central argument is the ethics of eating dogs. They are more intelligent than most other animals, save perhaps pigs, yet most people interact with dogs much more often than cows, chickens, or pigs. Dogs are a familiar part of Western culture. Yet we must not superimpose our own standards upon unfamiliar ones. That is disrespect pure and simple. To turn the logic around, how would Americans respond if Hindus angrily demonstrated in front of US embassies demanding a stop to the butchering of their holy animals?

Yet most likely, the animal rights activist inside many of us will still remain unconvinced. "It's just not right: they're dogs!"

There are indeed many other flaws in the arguments against dog meat consumption.

Take, for instance, the objections to the very butchering of dogs. Protestors zealously display pictures taken of dog farms, yet there is a noticeable lack of links regarding the butchering of cows, pigs, chickens, and other livestock. The sob stories that these demonstrators eagerly post show that dogs are treated as any other livestock, and far better than the animals in many Western farms. These people bawl about how dogs are killed with either electric shocks or a butchering process similar to the one used on cattle. Simply because this process is available for all to see, it is ridiculed far more than the cattle slaughter that Western countries so depend upon. Also, on a tangent, if one would observe the process, on the basis of health issues this is far healthier to packaged beef as the dog meat is fresh and consumed soon thereafter. But I digress.

Another interesting point regarding the statistics of the nature of these protests show just how one-sided the front against dog meat consumption really is: Notice how the organizations explicitly attack the custom of eating dogs are all headed by Westerners, such as the AAF (headed by Ms. Jill Robinson), the AAPN (headed by Dr. John Wedderburn), and the quite ironic AHAN, or Asians for Humans, Animals and Nature (headed by a quite non-Asian Ms. Vicky Lynn). Nearly all of the Asian animal protection agencies such as the Hong Kong Cat Salvation Army (headed by Dr. W. T. W. Fan) do not explicitly attack nor even mention the consumption of dogs and such animals. Their purpose seems more to be one of keeping pet and semi-feral dogs off the streets for both the public's and the dog's benefit. Yet another interesting site is the Korean Animals site, in which a lone couple is attempting to set up a shelter for dogs "rescued" from the marketplace. Not surprisingly, there appear to be little domestic support for their crusade.

Finally, some protestors lodge complaints that dog meat consumption has no real nutritional value, or that dogs have "Dog meat is consider as the habit-forming 'sinister' one. Because protein structure of dog meat is similar to human protein." [Sic] The second comment is self-rebuking. The first is without base. There has been no large-scale research in Western nations on the benefits of dog meat, primarily due to the taboo surrounding the subject. Yet according to ancient Chinese and Korean medical texts, and proven by the anti-dog meat sites themselves(under "Chosun Ilbo Daily News"), dog meat is full of protein and good for relieving complications arising from a hot summer day.

Lastly, the logic of the proverb "To judge another is to judge one's self" can be easily taken into account: abandoned dogs in many Western nations are put into shelters in which they are poorly treated and more often than not killed and wasted. One cannot argue against this. Though food dogs in the Far East cultures ultimately share the same fate, they are generally treated far better (as people buying these dogs want them in good, not sick condition) and suffer far less.

To conclude, the consumption of dog meat is not for Western protestors and animal lovers to cry or judge. It is simply a custom that many people from Far East nations enjoy, not for ignorant zealots to ridicule. To protest against what people are eating for dinner, something that is 1) not endangered, and 2) has been a part of their society for thousands of years is simply disrespect for their culture and society.

My urging is thus: though I believe that the consumption of dogs is inherently wrong in my personal opinion and probably in yours as well, it is simply an issue we must tolerate and pay respect to our East Asian neighbors, and not one for us to judge by our standards and prejudices alone. Such outrageous disrespect has already been demonstrated; let us learn from the past.

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Poll
Dog meat is to soup as :
o Chicken is to noodle 30%
o Hand is to masturbation 15%
o Oil is to water 7%
o Barbarism is to civlization 9%
o Catholic priest is to little boy 36%

Votes: 92
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o foreigners
o dan gogi soup
o Kea So Joo
o basketball
o chess
o demonstrat ed in front of US embassies
o dog farms
o sob stories
o the animals
o one used on cattle
o one-sided
o Hong Kong Cat Salvation Army (headed by Dr. W. T. W. Fan)
o Korean Animals
o "Dog meat is consider as the habit-forming 'sinister' one. Because protein structure of dog meat is similar to human protein." [Sic]
o proven by the anti-dog meat sites themselves
o demonstrat ed
o Also by JChen


Display: Sort:
Discuss or Disgust Over Dog Meat? Yum! | 296 comments (284 topical, 12 editorial, 1 hidden)
Humor (4.00 / 4) (#5)
by ucblockhead on Tue Jul 16, 2002 at 11:18:53 PM EST

This issue is mightily amusing to those of us who don't eat cows, pigs, chickens, etc...
-----------------------
This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
And dog as well? (n/t) (none / 0) (#6)
by JChen on Tue Jul 16, 2002 at 11:19:51 PM EST



Let us do as we say.
[ Parent ]
Just laugh while innocent plants are slaughtered? (4.50 / 6) (#7)
by Patrick Bateman on Tue Jul 16, 2002 at 11:32:28 PM EST

.

---
I have to return some videotapes.
[ Parent ]

I can imagine (3.33 / 3) (#40)
by gazbo on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 05:15:58 AM EST

Carnivores (me included) love to point out the hypocrisy of most vegetarians. In this case, it's the vegetarians who have every right to rip the carnivores to shreds.

If anyone can say with a straight face that eating dog/horse is cruel and wrong, but eating cow/sheep is normal and justifiable then they need a smack with a clue stick.

Personally I'll eat anything that tastes nice. Except (e.g.) white veal - I do have some standards. If I were to go to a restaurant offering dog meat you can be damn sure I'd order it just to try it out.


-----
Topless, revealing, nude pics and vids of Zora Suleman! Upskirt and down blouse! Cleavage!
Hardcore ZORA SULEMAN pics!

[ Parent ]

That would indeed by hypocritical (none / 0) (#61)
by DesiredUsername on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 09:15:34 AM EST

So I'm not about to claim that eating dog is "wrong" or "cruel". It IS icky, though, so I won't be partaking. This isn't so much because I love dogs (I'm more of a cat person) but just because when I was a child dogs were not presented as food. Same with insects--I won't eat those either. For that matter, I subsist almost entirely on pizza (and related foods) and hamburgers.

Play 囲碁
[ Parent ]
Why not veal? (none / 0) (#71)
by pexatus on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 10:19:03 AM EST

Just because it's young? I don't get it.

[ Parent ]
Because it is unnecessarily cruel (4.00 / 1) (#74)
by gazbo on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 10:35:09 AM EST

First link I got after a google for "veal calf" was this. Veal calves are treated utterly inhumanely just to make them tender and pale.

Age isn't the issue - give me spring lamb any day, it's fucking gorgeous.


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Topless, revealing, nude pics and vids of Zora Suleman! Upskirt and down blouse! Cleavage!
Hardcore ZORA SULEMAN pics!

[ Parent ]

Wow (none / 0) (#108)
by pexatus on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 12:14:03 PM EST

Holy shit. Looks like I found something to believe in.

I wonder if soy milk tastes as bad as I've heard.

[ Parent ]

soy milk (none / 0) (#178)
by K on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 04:39:36 PM EST

Different brands taste better than others. Most I've had taste just fine, but still much different than cow milk. I imagine it's like veggie burgers - the ones that don't try to taste like meat taste the best.

[ Parent ]
Tates like grass clippings n/t (none / 0) (#192)
by 0xA on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 06:40:59 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Funny but... (none / 0) (#134)
by Andy P on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 02:26:36 PM EST

Perhaps it's a misnomer, but the guy I buy veal from is an organic farmer, and ALL of his animals are raised free range (ie:In a huge open field). And I think being organic excludes the growth hormones that site suggests.

Ever consider that the animal rights activists always chose the worst farms to show you? To suggest ALL veal is raised like that on the basis of a single site is pretty lame.

[ Parent ]

*White* veal (none / 0) (#193)
by gazbo on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 06:47:18 PM EST

Note I said "white veal" in my post. I've eaten veal many times; white veal refers specifically to this stuff, which is the meat I don't eat.

-----
Topless, revealing, nude pics and vids of Zora Suleman! Upskirt and down blouse! Cleavage!
Hardcore ZORA SULEMAN pics!

[ Parent ]

One more thing (none / 0) (#195)
by gazbo on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 06:52:40 PM EST

I take your point about showing you the worst things, and I agree. I would normally never use such an Internet resource, as they are biased crap. Indeed, after reading the site I posted I hoped that nobody would assume I backed it 100% - the alarmist attitude is pathetic.

I meant it when I said I chose the first link off google. However I know from many sources that white veal has to be cruel by nature. Otherwise it just isn't white veal.


-----
Topless, revealing, nude pics and vids of Zora Suleman! Upskirt and down blouse! Cleavage!
Hardcore ZORA SULEMAN pics!

[ Parent ]

Chickens (none / 0) (#175)
by Haicead on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 04:35:58 PM EST

Chickens are often kept in similar conditions: caged up, unable to move. But you rarely (if ever) hear people complaining about that...
"Not altogether a fool... but then he's a poet, which I take to be only one remove from a fool." --E.A. Poe
[ Parent ]
You do (none / 0) (#194)
by gazbo on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 06:48:54 PM EST

In England at least. And I always buy free-range eggs accordingly.

I may be a cruel sadistic heartless fucker, but I'm rarely hypocritical :-)

-----
Topless, revealing, nude pics and vids of Zora Suleman! Upskirt and down blouse! Cleavage!
Hardcore ZORA SULEMAN pics!

[ Parent ]

Selective Evidence -1 (4.00 / 1) (#9)
by ovie on Tue Jul 16, 2002 at 11:36:18 PM EST

Criticism of the treatment of dogs is entirely western bias against Asia. Right.. Have a look at Korea Animal Protection Society for a home grown dog protection movement. If you're really keen, you could also obtain a copy of this documentary shot by the Australian ABC on dog meat criticism based almost entirely in Korea from Koreans. Most of the arguments made are similar to those made against battery hen farming and the like, ie its not the eating of dogs that is the big problem, it's the way you treat them before you kill them.

As mentioned in the article (none / 0) (#11)
by JChen on Tue Jul 16, 2002 at 11:44:24 PM EST

the Korean Animal Protection Society's site admits that it has basically no domestic support. Also, notice that these are mainly students raised in a Western atmosphere who are complaining under the banner of Western ideology.

Let us do as we say.
[ Parent ]
official support (none / 0) (#18)
by ovie on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 12:54:02 AM EST

official support (ie government). There are a large number of koreans who don't eat dog meat (according to the ABC documentary previously mentioned, the majority of customers who order dog dishes are of the older generations). Which camp do you put these people in? Just because people aren't actively protesting against such things, does not mean they support it. I don't think supporting animal rights is necessarily a 'western ideology' either. It is prominent in most major religions from all parts of the globe.

[ Parent ]
Lip Service (none / 0) (#98)
by JChen on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 11:39:05 AM EST

The Korean government officially banned dog meat, but does absolutely nothing to enforce it. This regulation is simply to please the Western protestors during the sports events in the 80's.

One must wonder why they don't really enforce this: it cannot be "powerful dog-meat lobbists" (dogs come from small-scale, private farms in the countryside). They see these protests against their tradition as rude, ignorant, and obnoxious. The people do not have dog three times a day is because dog is expensive. It is served more often as a delicacy in resturants rather than a staple dish at homes. The vast majority of people simply do not care, not because of religious reasons, but because it has been a part of their culture for many centuries and they do not see it as being wrong.

Let us do as we say.
[ Parent ]

And also, would you eat dog meat then if (none / 0) (#13)
by JChen on Tue Jul 16, 2002 at 11:59:29 PM EST

it came from such a source (replace with dog)?

Let us do as we say.
[ Parent ]
hypothetical (none / 0) (#16)
by ovie on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 12:49:04 AM EST

so it should be ignored to begin with.. but its not a question of eating meat or not eating meat (i do, altho not much).. its whether you treat the animal humanely before you kill it. I have no problem with dog meat, or any other meat, if its treated humanely. There is a huge body of evidence showing cruel treatment of dogs in korean markets. This is one of the key points of contention against the 'dog meat industry' in general by activists. To dismiss these concerns as just western bias is simply incorrect. Bad things happen in western farming practices too, and there are activists protesting against these (PETA et al). It's not hypocrisy because its not an issue of 'culture'. It's possible to treat an animal with dignity and yet still consume it.

[ Parent ]
sorry, didnt see link (none / 0) (#20)
by ovie on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 01:01:43 AM EST

Sorry, i didnt see you linked KAPS, because you used the url instead of the organisation name. KAPS is not a single couple, their website quotes ~1800 members as of 2001.

[ Parent ]
Pigs are supposed to be very smart. (4.57 / 7) (#12)
by Estanislao MartÝnez on Tue Jul 16, 2002 at 11:52:13 PM EST

[Dogs] are more intelligent than most other animals. Most people see dogs much more often than cows, chickens, or pigs.

Your passage could easily be misunderstood as implying that dogs are more intelligent than pigs. However, the people who claim to be able to show that some animals are more "intelligent" than others (whatever that means) seem to essentially agree that pigs are damn smart, definitely smarter than dogs.

--em

What about rats and mice? (none / 0) (#163)
by nusuth on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 03:54:25 PM EST

They do look pretty clever to me.

[ Parent ]
White mice! (none / 0) (#213)
by devNevyn on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 10:01:40 PM EST

They're smartest of them all. Didn't you know?

--------
Move .sig, For Great Justice!
[ Parent ]
Preach on! (3.50 / 4) (#17)
by wji on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 12:51:13 AM EST

A couple days ago one of our goldfish died. My younger sister grieved between gulps of her burger.

I see no ethical problem in eating meat; but I suspect veganism would be a hell of a lot more popular if people actually thought things through.

In conclusion, the Powerpuff Girls are a reactionary, pseudo-feminist enterprise.

Lots of things would be more (or less) popular (4.00 / 1) (#19)
by leviramsey on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 12:58:46 AM EST

...if people thought things through.

But humans are irrational creatures.



[ Parent ]
I disagree. (5.00 / 2) (#28)
by wji on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 02:25:10 AM EST

It's perfectly rational not to think things through. Thinking things through causes major problems -- once you think things through your life becomes a hell of a lot more complicated. Lemme quote a good article in my local Commie-Pinko rag:

The art of living "happily" in a Western pluralistic democracy (at the start of this new millenium) is the ability to ignore the dissonance between what you see and what the corporate-controlled political leaders tell us we are seeing.

It's much easier not to see the dissonance because if you do, then you immediately become politicized -- what the media dismissively call "radicalized" -- and may your God help you then.

Onc eyou become politicized, then the dissonance out there comes home to roost. You have to think. You have to question. You have to deal with the outrage you feel burning in you.



In conclusion, the Powerpuff Girls are a reactionary, pseudo-feminist enterprise.
[ Parent ]
oh? (none / 0) (#139)
by tzanger on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 02:50:26 PM EST

I see no ethical problem in eating meat; but I suspect veganism would be a hell of a lot more popular if people actually thought things through.

Ok, explain how by eating meat I'm not thinking things through.



[ Parent ]
Errr... (none / 0) (#239)
by synaesthesia on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 08:00:13 AM EST

...a couple of seconds ago someone in the third world died. You didn't know them, so you didn't shed a tear for them. Your sister's behaviour is no different.

Sausages or cheese?
[ Parent ]
If IT can get me my slippers (2.00 / 2) (#21)
by irie bj on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 01:02:22 AM EST

then I'm not going to eat it. If it can fetch me the morning paper, then I'm not going to eat it. If it protects my family, my property, and me then I'm not going to eat it.

Fido is my friend, not my dinner.

I need a witty sig.

Oink (none / 0) (#30)
by TheOnlyCoolTim on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 02:40:32 AM EST

Although I've never tried it personally, I would bet good money that you could train a pig to get your slippers and paper. Probably couldn't protect you much though, unless it was trained to trigger an alarm or something if it saw a bad man.

Tim
"We are trapped in the belly of this horrible machine, and the machine is bleeding to death."
[ Parent ]

Pig-biased Propaganda (none / 0) (#82)
by virg on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 10:54:17 AM EST

You pig hater, you! (OK, just kidding). Anyway, a pig can protect you as well as a dog can if you train it correctly, for two reasons. First, pigs can be right mean if they get a mind to fight, and second, nobody really expects to be attacked by a pig, which is often why pig-inflicted injuries are so nasty. An angry pig can very easily snap off one of your fingers if you get too close.

So, maybe we can get guard pigs, and have a few links of Shepard sausage. Yeah.

Virg
"Imagine (it won't be hard) that most people would prefer seeing Carrot Top beaten to death with a bag of walnuts." - Jmzero
[ Parent ]
guard pig (none / 0) (#198)
by janra on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 07:16:54 PM EST

Damn, I can't find the story. Anyhow, I remember reading a while ago about a lady who was assaulted in her home. The intruders took her into the kitchen, where her pig was sleeping under the kitchen table. She managed to wake the pig up without the intruders (I think there were 2 of them) knowing what she was doing. I guess they thought they were safe because she didn't have a dog. Anyhow, the pig attacked the intruders - I think one managed to run away, but the other one had a big chunk of his leg ripped out by the pig.

Imagine 2-300 pounds of angry pork with sharp teeth and hooves charging you. Yikes. And pigs are omnivores, so they don't have flat teeth like horses (not to minimize the damage a horse's teeth can do if it thinks it needs to bite you!).


--
Discuss the art and craft of writing
That's the problem with world domination... Nobody is willing to wait for it anymore, work slowly towards it, drink more and enjoy the ride more.
[ Parent ]
reminds me of a song about a pig (none / 0) (#295)
by sowellfan on Tue Jul 23, 2002 at 02:30:16 AM EST

I forget what the song was, it may have been a Ray Stevens song, but the premise was that the family had a pet pig. Anyways, one of the lines referred to the tough winter when they got hungry and the pig lost a leg.

Regarding the slaughtering of cows and such, my boss told me a story of his early days as an engineer. He started out as a chemical engineer, I think, and one of the projects as at a slaughterhouse. The interesting part was that the main tool of the slaughtering person was a sledgehammer. Evidently, there was just this really big, strong guy with a sledgehammer, and the cows were led up to him single file, and he just bashed in their skulls. My boss said he took one of his sons into that plant to get across to him that going to college was a *good* idea, to avoid a job like that.

[ Parent ]

My dog (4.00 / 1) (#44)
by rdskutter on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 06:08:53 AM EST

Steals my slippers and doesn't let me have them back until they have been torn to shreds. She also attacks the newspaper when it gets put through the door.

But I still wouldn't eat her. She's about 14 and she's had a very energetic life so I imagine that the meat would be quite chewy.

The neighbours have a new Golden Labrador puppy that sits in the garden basking in the sun all afternoon. They also feed it far too much and generally spoil it. I imagine that it would be nice tender non-chewy meat with some tasty fat.


If you're a jock, inflict some pain / If you're a nerd then use your brain - DAPHNE AND CELESTE
[ Parent ]

What *really* needs protesting (4.50 / 6) (#22)
by Irobot on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 01:09:50 AM EST

There is something going on now in Mexico that I happen to think is cruelty to animals. What I'm talking about, of course, is cat juggling!

(Sorry...I'm in a weird mood tonight...)

Irobot

The one important thing I have learned over the years is the difference between taking one's work seriously and taking one's self seriously. The first is imperative and the second is disastrous. -- Margot Fonteyn

With me (none / 0) (#124)
by BLU ICE on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 01:40:07 PM EST

cat juggling!

I prefer Cat Organs. Different sized cats, when properly poked, can emit a wide range of beautiful musical notes. In the 1700's a cat organ would look like a regular organ, except when you press a key any number of cats would be poked.

"Is the quality of this cocaine satisfactory, Mr. Delorean?"
"As good as gold."

-- I am become Troll, destroyer of threads.
It's like an encyclopedia...sorta: Everything2

[ Parent ]

Love me, eat me... (4.33 / 3) (#23)
by Alias on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 01:27:16 AM EST

My only problem with eating dogs is that it may be a dog I've known. I suspect that's mostly the point: we love our dogs, and to us someone eating dog meat is eating our own Fido.

More generally, we humans have something against eating someone we've been socially introduced to. I see that as a Good Thing...

StÚphane "Alias" Gallay -- Damn! My .sig is too lon

Web comics... (none / 0) (#140)
by chipuni on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 02:51:34 PM EST

It sounds like a standard joke in Kevin and Kell...
--
Perfection is not reached when nothing more can be added, but only when nothing more can be taken away.
Wisdom for short attention spans.
[ Parent ]
It's all cultural (4.75 / 4) (#24)
by athagon on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 01:28:52 AM EST

Although the eating of dog meat may be bad, and I do consider it to be, it's just a cultural phenomenon. Why should we assume that dogs have more of a right to live than, say, a chicken, or a cow? We might freely go down to a McDonalds or a Burger King and order a burger (filled with ground up cows and earthworms), but if you were to ask for a "Super Double-Dog Slammer," the employees would probably give you a funny look, at least. In short, dog meat may be bad, but it's no worse than any other animal -- we just have a cultural attachment to them, and a cultural opposition to the others.

McDonalds / Burger King don't use worms (none / 0) (#199)
by ReverendX on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 07:19:10 PM EST

This is an urban legend.

Reference: http://www.snopes.com/horrors/food/wormburg.htm

Being able to piss in an allyway is however, a very poor substitute for a warm bed and a hot cup of super-premium coffee. - homelessweek.com
[ Parent ]

Come to think of it... (4.40 / 5) (#25)
by jabber on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 01:33:07 AM EST

Given the chance, I'd eat human.

[TINK5C] |"Is K5 my kapusta intellectual teddy bear?"| "Yes"

you have the chance every day (5.00 / 4) (#35)
by streetlawyer on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 04:10:31 AM EST

I read about a guy in Poland who got blind drunk, cut a slice off his forearm, fried it with sage and ate it. He survived, though I don't think the newspaper article mentioned what he thought of the taste.

--
Just because things have been nonergodic so far, doesn't mean that they'll be nonergodic forever
[ Parent ]
like pork (nt) (none / 0) (#146)
by ODiV on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 03:04:13 PM EST



--
[ odiv.net ]
[ Parent ]
Mmm. Raw. (5.00 / 3) (#69)
by wiredog on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 10:17:23 AM EST

And shaved.

Oh, you meant as dinner, not foreplay. Sorry.

Can't sleep. The clowns will get me.
[ Parent ]

Appetizer, actually. n/t (4.00 / 1) (#92)
by jabber on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 11:24:22 AM EST

.

[TINK5C] |"Is K5 my kapusta intellectual teddy bear?"| "Yes"
[ Parent ]

The most important thing, however... (4.00 / 1) (#27)
by xriso on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 02:18:15 AM EST

What does it taste like? Give me a better answer than just "like chicken". :-)

A question to those who have pets (cats, dogs, fish, plants, etc.): how do you feel about eating the meat of an animal of the same species as your pet?
--
*** Quits: xriso:#kuro5hin (Forever)

No, not like chicken (4.00 / 1) (#46)
by Riktov on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 06:19:58 AM EST

I tried a four-course dog meal in Hanoi, Vietnam a few years ago. My host told me there were seven traditional dog dishes, of which I was served four: stew, grilled (aka "shishkadog"), drumstick, and blood sausage.

It was like tough beef, but with a very strong odor. To me, it smelled quite like dog shit, but to my host, it was the distinctive aroma that made it a delicacy.

[ Parent ]

Somebody asked me this once. (none / 0) (#191)
by 0xA on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 06:36:21 PM EST

I have kept several types of fish over the years but currently only have one tank running. In it I keep a Green Spotted Puffer and some guppies. The guppies are mainly play toys for the puffer. I had a friend ask me once as I was petting (seriously, you can do this with goldfish too) my puffer how I could eat seafood and like fish so much. I said with a perfectly staight face "well he eats fish too, so I guess he understands". Not that I would eat my puffer mind you. Mostly because I would end up dead.

[ Parent ]
More like Kangaroo, really. (none / 0) (#266)
by odaiwai on Fri Jul 19, 2002 at 03:18:28 AM EST

It's a dark meat, and rather lean.  I've only had it one, and it was stewed.  It was quite tasty, although it could have been any dark meat the way it was cooked.

It's not as nice as goat, IMO, and not a patch on kangaroo or ostrich.

dave
-- "They're chefs! Chefs with chainsaws!"
[ Parent ]

Cannibalism (2.50 / 2) (#29)
by ShadowNode on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 02:25:47 AM EST

There are, or at least where, cultures who traditionally practiced cannibalism. I've heard the pig intelligence urban myth before, but it's always proposed without anything substantial to back it up, and dogs are significantly more intelligent then cows or chickens.

I've heard (none / 0) (#31)
by xriso on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 02:56:26 AM EST

That a group of people practicing cannibalism in certain cases can experience some nasty problems due to buildup of toxins/etc. Then again, this might be as unsupported as you say the pigsmart thing is.
--
*** Quits: xriso:#kuro5hin (Forever)
[ Parent ]
kuru (none / 0) (#34)
by streetlawyer on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 04:09:17 AM EST

You're referring to "kuru", the version of Creutzfeld-Jacob disease suffered by Papua New Guineans early last century. It's a result of *ritual* cannibalism -- the eating of an enemy's brains out of a belief in sympathetic magic. Normal cannibalism isn't particularly dangerous.

--
Just because things have been nonergodic so far, doesn't mean that they'll be nonergodic forever
[ Parent ]
Meat has to be cooked well-done (none / 0) (#70)
by wiredog on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 10:19:00 AM EST

Due to the parasite problem.

Can't sleep. The clowns will get me.
[ Parent ]
the above advice is dangerous (4.00 / 1) (#73)
by streetlawyer on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 10:32:42 AM EST

Kuru, like vCJD and bovine spongiform encephelopathy (BSE) is transmitted by a prion protein, not a parasite (very few people have parasites in their brains as the brain is pretty inaccessible to most forms of parasite). Prions are not broken down at normal cooking temperatures. The only way to be sure that you are safe from kuru is to abstain from ritually eating the brains (or spinal cords) of your enemies.

--
Just because things have been nonergodic so far, doesn't mean that they'll be nonergodic forever
[ Parent ]
True (none / 0) (#85)
by wiredog on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 10:58:05 AM EST

I was referring to eating that sort of meat in general (re: trichonosis, etc), not just kuru. I should have been clearer.

Can't sleep. The clowns will get me.
[ Parent ]
ritual cannibalism (none / 0) (#215)
by Golden Spray on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 10:57:46 PM EST

The ritual cannibalism praticed amoung the Fore natives was NOT eating the brains of enemies. In this case the cannibalism was part of a funeral ritual. In the ritual relatives consume tissues, including the brains, of their dead relatives.

Not all forms of cannibalism are expressions of power over ones enemies.



GS

[ Parent ]
well (none / 0) (#230)
by streetlawyer on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 05:41:00 AM EST

I guess you learn something new every day.

--
Just because things have been nonergodic so far, doesn't mean that they'll be nonergodic forever
[ Parent ]
Urban Myth (none / 0) (#32)
by forii on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 03:04:34 AM EST

If you can find something to back up the assertion that dogs are smarter than pigs, I'd be happy to look at it.


Proud member of the ACLU, the NRA, and the EFF.
[ Parent ]

Not what I'm arguing (1.00 / 1) (#39)
by ShadowNode on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 05:14:20 AM EST

I have no idea what the intelligence level of pigs is, I just doubt that their more intelligent than any other livestock.

[ Parent ]
Livestock intelligence (4.00 / 1) (#45)
by forii on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 06:14:45 AM EST

Oh, if you're curious about that, then I can help you out, as a former farm boy.

For the 5 major farm animals, this is how it works out:

Most intelligent: Pigs (by far)

Second: Horses

Distant third: Cattle

Tied for last: Sheep and Chickens

One notable thing about pigs is that they are also the most dangerous animals on the farm.  They will, on occasion, "go mean", and turn on people.

Sheep and Chickens have about the same mental power, btw.  I think this is more an indictment of sheep, however.
Proud member of the ACLU, the NRA, and the EFF.
[ Parent ]

I know someone who was bitten by a pig. (none / 0) (#56)
by gordonjcp on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 07:41:22 AM EST

Not even a very big one.  It took out half of his hand! Pinky and ring finger, and a big chunk of his palm.  Just bit straight through it.

Anything that can do that much damage is fair game, I suppose...

Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll bore you rigid with fishing stories for the rest of your life.


[ Parent ]
Re: Livestock intelligence (none / 0) (#95)
by spec on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 11:30:48 AM EST

Living out in the middle of rural Ontario I have many friends who work on the family farms. From what I've heard you're about right with the Sheep and Chickens however I'm not sure if I would put Pigs on top (from the stories). I've heard many stories about trying to get the pigs to the scales. Trying to guide them down the halls is hell according to my friend. He says they'll try to go the other way, he'll give them a whack, they'll do a complete 360 he'll whack them again and it will continue like this until the pig finally realizes which way he's supposed to go. That doesn't seem to smart to me. I've never helped him so I wouldn't know. Dairy cattle on the other hand I found to be rather smart. I've helped out with the milking a few times and each of the cows went to their seperate stalls with little trouble and after the milking they easily walked back outside. Anyways, like I said I've never helped out with pigs, but from what I've heard and my experiences with cattle those two animals should be inverted.

[ Parent ]
Pigs are stubborn, not stupid (5.00 / 3) (#231)
by Enocasiones on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 06:14:46 AM EST

I think you're confusing docility with intelligence. A pig with an agenda is much smarter than a dumb cow following orders.

(I don´t know why, but this last sentence reminds me of the last two US presidents...)

[ Parent ]

Ego (4.50 / 2) (#58)
by Rande on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 07:57:01 AM EST

Amazing how animals that are friendly are considered more intelligent than those which ignore you and try to live their lives independantly.

Just the same with other humans really.

[ Parent ]

As a former pot-bellied pig owner ... (5.00 / 3) (#107)
by joegee on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 12:13:15 PM EST

I can attest that mine was probably one of the smarter non-human creatures I have had the privilege of knowing (His name was Wilbur, FYI.)

He had a fantastic sense of humor -- hiding in a pile of laundry, and surprising me with a single OINK and a snout pressed into my hand. He was very playful, he loved playing catch in the back yard. He was a good beggar -- I couldn't bring myself to feed him pork roast leftovers though.

My favorite memory of him was watching the movie Babe -- with a lap pig. Yes he had hooves, yes they were hard, yes they could really poke you in the wrong places, but he was a loving little fellow.

My only problem with this loving "little" fellow was that he grew into a loving BIG fellow, so he went out to live on a farm as a house pet, all 175 pounds of him. The kids would get him into the back of their car, and this pig would go to soccer games, baseball games. He lived quite a nice life, and was much loved.

Quite a few species have non-food qualities that can be appreciated, but quite a few non-food species taste pretty good with the right spices too. This IS a matter of cultural background more than any "right" or "wrong". I remember a few months back someone posted an article about the Afghan soccer-type game where a goat's head is substituted for the soccer ball. The tone of the article was "look at how these savage barbarians amuse their primitive urges."

We are not talking about rape, about women's rights, or even about democratic principles. We are talking about simple cultural differences like choices in foods and recreation: who the hell are we to judge? I think pÚtanque is very, very boring. I think eating escargots is revolting. Does that mean that all French people are slug-chewers who lack the strength to lift a real bowling ball? Does this make the French people somehow inferior to mine?

<sig>I always learn something on K5, sometimes in spite of myself.</sig>
[ Parent ]
Well... (none / 0) (#190)
by jmzero on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 06:25:20 PM EST

Does that mean that all French people are slug-chewers who lack the strength to lift a real bowling ball?

I'll agree it sort of doesn't make sense, but I'm going to have to go with "yes".  I mean, what other explanation is there, besides perhaps that they don't have the proper balls.

.
"Let's not stir that bag of worms." - my lovely wife
[ Parent ]

urban myth... (4.00 / 1) (#171)
by biggs on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 04:31:05 PM EST

It's funny the choice of the words "urban myth" when it's the urban people who only have experince with dead pigs (eating them) that think they are dumb... and it's the farmers who have experience with them that think they are smart.... Maybe it should be called rural-myth? Or better yet rural-beleif-based-on-time-and-experience...

--
"Rockin my 'hell I made it' wetsuit stitch so I can swim in elevators crazy wet through piss" -Cannibal Ox
[ Parent ]
My opinion (3.00 / 4) (#33)
by rdskutter on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 04:00:38 AM EST

My urging is thus: though I believe that the consumption of dogs is inherently wrong in my personal opinion and probably in yours as well,...

Please do not presume to tell me what my own opinion is. Personally I see absolutely nothing wrong with eating dog meat provided that said dog is not someone's pet.


If you're a jock, inflict some pain / If you're a nerd then use your brain - DAPHNE AND CELESTE

Nothing wrong with dog meat... (4.50 / 2) (#36)
by Obvious Pseudonym on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 04:11:12 AM EST

My urging is thus: though I believe that the consumption of dogs is inherently wrong in my personal opinion and probably in yours as well, it is simply an issue we must tolerate and pay respect to our East Asian neighbors, and not one for us to judge by our standards and prejudices alone.

There's nothing inherently wrong or even hypocritical about keeping dogs as pets and also eating dog meat.

I have had pet rabbits, but it doesn't stop me from loving rabbit meat (that's 'loving' as in 'liking to eat', not... Oh, never mind!)

The only problem is in the treatment of the animals. If the dogs are well treated and farmed and killed humanely (rather than just picked up as strays off the streets and clubbed to death) then their meat is as good as any other animal.

Obvious Pseudonym

I am obviously right, and as you disagree with me, then logically you must be wrong.

The taste of terror (2.50 / 2) (#37)
by GoStone on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 04:51:54 AM EST

I believe that when slaughtering pigs you have to be very careful how you treat the animal in its last moments. Their terror once they learn what is going on seriously spoils the flavour of the meat.

By contrast, I have been told that in Korea this is thought to improve the flavour of dog meat. So dogs tend to be killed slowly by repeated hanging or such-like.

Is this true or just propaganda?


Cut first, ask questions later

The pigs, too (3.00 / 1) (#137)
by Triggerle on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 02:43:39 PM EST

I have friends that had to work in a slaughterhouse as part of their veterinarian (sp? =pet doctor) classes. Their description of the day-to-day routines have horrified me.

The pigs realise upon the truck entering the slaughterhouse what is going to happen and go ballistic. While they have to wait for their slaughtering they squeek in panic and try to get away.

They are one by one driven to the slaughter room with electro-shockers, because they refuse to go on their own.

All of my friends studying veterinary medicine stopped eating meat after this experience. Some started again later, some are still vegetarians.

--
"and if I go north...will you still hunt me?"
[ Parent ]

Strange, eh? (none / 0) (#240)
by synaesthesia on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 08:12:50 AM EST

My sister worked in a slaughterhouse for six months as part of her training as an environmental health officer. It didn't put her off eating meat. She said she'd see some entrails on the floor and think to herself, "Kidneys! I haven't had steak and kidney pie for a while." and go home and cook some up. Each to their own (I'm a vegetarian myself).

Sausages or cheese?
[ Parent ]
'Officially' Prohibited (none / 0) (#202)
by bill_mcgonigle on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 07:46:14 PM EST

One quick google citation
This is the biggest problem with dog eating. As long as it is allowed, these fucked up bitter old men will continue to beat puppies 'for the flavor'. At least a pack of wolves would have to decency to just tear the old men's throats out quickly, were the tables reversed.
And - before the liberals chime in - yes, people who beat cows should get the same back too.

[ Parent ]
Many uses (3.33 / 3) (#38)
by frankcrist on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 04:58:31 AM EST

I have a dog and, while I sure as hell wouldn't eat him, I'm definitely going to skin him and make him into a rug when he dies.  There's just something about that Husky fur...

--x--x--x--x--x--
Get your war on!
They eat horses. don't they? (4.33 / 3) (#41)
by loaf on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 05:23:33 AM EST

Anthropomorphism is a potent thing, isn't it?

Do I hear anyone shouting and screaming about, inter alia, the French eating horses?

"You've placed the bet, seen the race, collected your winnings - now eat the runner-up!"


It's a dying thing in France (none / 0) (#100)
by CtrlBR on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 11:48:11 AM EST

And most of the horses that we still eat come from the US and Canada.

It seems that we French started eating horse during the Napoleon wars, specifically getting back from Russia (Russians burned everything so that the French army could not sustain itself from the land). Since soldiers had nothing else to eat they ate their own horses, and since they liked the taste they kept the habit after the war.

But these days you seldom see any horse meat for sale and I've never seen a restaurant having it Ó la carte.

I know you're all waiting in anticipation: yes I like it. But it has been more than one year that I ate any and I'm not feeling any urge.

If no-one thinks you're a freedom fighter than you're probably not a terrorist.
-- Gully Foyle

[ Parent ]
I should add (none / 0) (#101)
by CtrlBR on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 11:52:05 AM EST

That I prefer eating snails to eating horses. And you sure don't get guilty about eating something that is quasi-sentient and has a "personality" :-).

If no-one thinks you're a freedom fighter than you're probably not a terrorist.
-- Gully Foyle

[ Parent ]
It may be a part of their culture (3.00 / 5) (#42)
by Shmit on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 05:36:14 AM EST

but I still think it's wrong to kill a dog and eat it.

I also think it's wrong to kill cattle, pigs, chicken, etc...

There are few exceptions to this rule. Say, for instance, you are living in the wild. Survival of the fittest is the only rule there. Eat or be eaten.
But we are living in a society where we don't *need* to slaughter to survive.

The thought of eating any animal is repulsive and barbaric to me.

~*~

Kuro5hin.org: God's hand, up your bum.

~*~

Pork and Halal (3.20 / 5) (#43)
by ShiteNick on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 06:01:22 AM EST

I wonder why no one's already mentioned this, but islam forbids (or seems to .. I have not read the Quran for myself) the consumption of Pork.

The logic is that pigs are humans reincarnated and thus the consumption of pork is cannibalism.

To a typical westerner this may seem to be an alien concept, but just imagine the horror most muslims feel when they watch someone devour a pork sandwich or pizza.

And imagine what it feels like to walk through an American street and see signs like 'Beef-Eater'.
I'm a practicing veggie and am against eating meat of any kind at all. Period. All animals are my friends.

And the concept of Dogs as pets? hah! That's just cause you're an urban person. Any farmer has lived with Cows / Pigs etc for years. I was once trekking in a remote region of Nepal where most of the houses had their collection of domestic animals. Pigs, Dogs, Chicken etc all running around with equal freedom and all treated equally well (or badly). The pigs were for consumption later, while the dogs were not. Simple. It's purely cultural and there's nothing wrong with the idea of eating dog-meat, if you're willing to eat meat of any other sort.



You are wrong. (5.00 / 3) (#48)
by Tezcatlipoca on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 06:41:46 AM EST

Islam does not believe in reincarnation.

Pigs (and dogs) are considered impure animals, and any animal that is not slaughtered in an Islamic way is considered improper for a good Muslim's consumption. I ignore where you got that canibalism idea, if you are trolling good try, if you are not, drop that because it is not true.

In cases of hardship Islam allows to break these rules.
---
"Every duck should aspire to be crispy and aromatic." sleepyhel

[ Parent ]

Reincarnation (none / 0) (#59)
by ShiteNick on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 08:13:38 AM EST

I got the idea from a muslim frnd; I'd asked why he does not eat pork and he told me the prophet or god or someone banished some people to be reborn as pigs. Or something very very similar. The idea that eating pigs is cannibalism was quite clear though.

With that said, I have no idea about the truth of this statement which I have already stated.

As far as being unclean goes, technically you are supposed to wash your hands seven times after you even "touch" a dog or any animal. And that has nothing to do with this. Why is pork so explicity forbidden while the meat of other animals when prepared as per islamic means considered ok?

If all animals were dirty there would be no halal lamb either.

Why is there not halal pork??

[ Parent ]
Unclean (5.00 / 2) (#63)
by StrontiumDog on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 09:39:32 AM EST

Islamic cleanliness stipulations, such as daily ablutions, avoiding contact with unclean animals, wiping your arse with your left hand and eating with your right, and avoiding the flesh of animals who harbour a great deal of internal parasites, are founded in fucking good common-sense public health and sanitation rules.

[ Parent ]
Ditto for kosher (5.00 / 1) (#72)
by wiredog on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 10:23:10 AM EST

They have the same basis in history. Actually, kosher meat/food is halal, though not the other way around.

Can't sleep. The clowns will get me.
[ Parent ]
Not exactly... (none / 0) (#138)
by morrisq on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 02:49:37 PM EST

As a matter of fact, not all kosher food is halal. Islamic law very stringently forbids wine and wine-derived products; this causes more problems than you'd first think (certain vinegars, mustard, dishes cooked with wine, etc.). Also, if "zabiha" meat is available, I believe merely kosher meat is forbidden.

In reply to your comment's parent, only some laws (of kashrut and halal) come from common-sense health considerations. For instance, the Jewish practice of washing before eating bread was explicitly formulated for reasons of cleanliness. However, other practices (such as the mixing of meat and milk, or in Islamic law the consumption of alcohol) rather clearly come from ethical considerations.

[ Parent ]

Pork (none / 0) (#111)
by substrate on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 12:22:01 PM EST

I believe that pork is considered taboo because the sows have multiple partners. They're considered a degenerate animal because the male pig doesn't defend against this.

[ Parent ]
That is pretty common in non Muslim countries... (none / 0) (#228)
by Tezcatlipoca on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 05:02:46 AM EST

To have Muslim friends that don't know much about their own faith.

It is funny that I, a declared atheist, reminded some Muslim friends of the beginning of Ramadan in a certain ocassion....
---
"Every duck should aspire to be crispy and aromatic." sleepyhel

[ Parent ]

Actually... (non informative comment) (4.00 / 1) (#151)
by nusuth on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 03:33:33 PM EST

Islam permits eating a specific subgroup of omnivores, which include sheep, cows, camel, deer, lama and few else. Dogs, cats, horses etc. are disallowed by default. I don't know whether pıgs actually qualify for the subgroup, but they are specifically disallowed for consumption (expect in emergency conditions.)

This could have been a good, informative comment if only I knew what was the English word for "šift toynaklı." Literally it means something like "one with two nails."

[ Parent ]

it is "Split hoof" [nt] (none / 0) (#156)
by nusuth on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 03:45:12 PM EST



[ Parent ]
"šift toynaklř." ==cloven hooves (none / 0) (#179)
by gte910h on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 04:42:27 PM EST

You can't eat animals with cloven hooves.

[ Parent ]
Cloven Hoof (n/t) (none / 0) (#183)
by Rift on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 05:13:18 PM EST



--Rift
A pen is to a car what a meteor is to a _____
[ Parent ]
Vegeterrorists! HA. (none / 0) (#77)
by Dilligaf on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 10:47:42 AM EST

I know people who are just the opposite of vegetarians, who refuse to eat anything that grew out of the ground, except for mebbe bread<wheat> and potatos but those are special foods.

[ Parent ]
Islam does not propose reencarnation. (none / 0) (#201)
by mindstrm on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 07:37:04 PM EST

Pork is banned because it is an 'unclean' animal. They eat their own shit. Etc.

If you look historically, though, you'll see that it makes sense to ban the use of pork because, of the foods they had in their ancient lands, pork goes bad the fastest.

In otherwords, pork is a) not needed and b) causes much more sickness and death than other meats.. so you ban it.


[ Parent ]

The hunter and the hunted..... (4.00 / 1) (#47)
by ShiteNick on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 06:33:10 AM EST

It just stuck me that it seems ok to eat the meat of herbivores but not that of carnivores in most western cultures!

Cows, pigs, chicken, fowl etc nice simple herbivores. Edible. Dogs, Tigers, Panthers, canivores. Not good.

Is there some biblical basis for this? Christianity, Judaism and Islam are all relatively united on this front so there might well be something in it ...

People in the middle-east eat Camels and people on Islands eat turtles. Shark consumption seems to have originated in Japan or China. And it's quite ok in Korea too. The west is only now getting used to the concept.

except for the pig part :-) \nt (5.00 / 1) (#49)
by noogie on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 07:02:31 AM EST

i said no text


*** ANONYMIZED BY THE EVIL KUROFIVEHIN MILITARY JUNTA ***
[ Parent ]
Difficult to catch? (4.00 / 1) (#55)
by gordonjcp on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 07:37:51 AM EST

Carnivores tend to be able to run fast and have sharp teeth. This could make it difficult and dangerous to catch and eat them. By contrast herbivores tend to be slower moving and will, at worst, be able to kick you. If you don't get out of the way.

Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll bore you rigid with fishing stories for the rest of your life.


[ Parent ]
Carnivore musculature (none / 0) (#60)
by Rand Race on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 08:33:54 AM EST

From what I understand, the muscle structure of mammalian carnivores is much denser than that of herbivores and that makes it extremely gamy.

That just means you need a damn good chef.


"Question with boldness even the existence of God; because if there be one, He must approve the homage of Reason rather than that of blindfolded Fear." - Thomas Jefferson
[ Parent ]

Pigs anc chickens are NOT herbivores... (4.00 / 2) (#79)
by What She Said on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 10:49:39 AM EST

Pigs are omnivores. They will happily and quite greedily eat meat, including the flesh of their own kind.

Chickens will also eat meat, and insects. Not herbivores at all.

[ Parent ]

Food Chain (none / 0) (#104)
by tin the fatty on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 12:07:05 PM EST

Maybe carnivores are so high up the food chain, it is just not economically viable to use them as food on a large scale.

[ Parent ]
Cheaper (5.00 / 1) (#116)
by Roman on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 12:52:57 PM EST

It is cheaper to eat meat that does not need meet in its turn but eats cheap food like grass, leaves. It is a very simple thing, really. It is just much cheaper to grow a cow than a tiger to eat.

[ Parent ]
Not only price, but also... (5.00 / 1) (#232)
by Enocasiones on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 06:27:40 AM EST

Domestication. Rearing a herd of tigers or whatever carnivore/predator you may think of is probably quite difficult. Herbivores tend to be much more social and easier to handle.

[ Parent ]
Top of the food chain (none / 0) (#121)
by DodgyGeezer on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 01:22:50 PM EST

It just seems wrong to me to eat things at the top of the food chain. Perhaps there are some very good biological or ecological reasons.

[ Parent ]
bad taste (2.00 / 1) (#158)
by loudici on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 03:47:14 PM EST

for some reason mammal carnivore's meat has an excessively gamy taste which makes it near impossible to eat. the closest to a carnivore that is eaten a-f-a-i-k is boar, and the only way to eat it is to have the meat marinate for days- L
gnothi seauton
[ Parent ]
Inefficiency (none / 0) (#235)
by NihilismNow on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 07:13:44 AM EST

As 85% of the energy contained in bio mass is lost over conversion to the next trophic level. Eating Carnivores is very inefficient (even more so than eating meat in general) and therefore unpractical. NihilismNow

[ Parent ]
Pulp fiction (4.00 / 2) (#50)
by noogie on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 07:05:36 AM EST

Vince: What about a dog?
Joules: No, I don't eat dog either



*** ANONYMIZED BY THE EVIL KUROFIVEHIN MILITARY JUNTA ***
A dog's got personality (5.00 / 1) (#53)
by evilpenguin on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 07:28:14 AM EST

Personality goes a long way.
--
# nohup cat /dev/dsp > /dev/hda & killall -9 getty
[ Parent ]
Well, by that logic... (none / 0) (#115)
by Christopher on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 12:34:30 PM EST

"Well, but that logic, if a pig were to have personality, it would ceace to be a filthy animal."

It's scary how much of that movie is still lodged in my brain...

_______________________________
more and more to do, less and less to prove
[ Parent ]

pulp (none / 0) (#204)
by ReverendX on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 07:49:44 PM EST

you're talking about one charming motherfuckin' pig

Being able to piss in an allyway is however, a very poor substitute for a warm bed and a hot cup of super-premium coffee. - homelessweek.com
[ Parent ]

cows vs dogs (4.70 / 20) (#52)
by Shren on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 07:25:12 AM EST

Well cared-for cows give milk.

Well trained dogs give home security.

If you need milk, eat your dog. If you need home security, eat your cow. If you need both, eat your cat.

Cat: The Other White Meat! (3.75 / 4) (#68)
by wiredog on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 10:15:33 AM EST



Can't sleep. The clowns will get me.
[ Parent ]
Baby! The other, OTHER white meat! N/T (none / 0) (#144)
by tzanger on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 03:02:19 PM EST



[ Parent ]
dog tastes good (5.00 / 14) (#54)
by akma on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 07:31:05 AM EST

I lived in Korea from 86-88 while in the US military, and again from 91-93 working for a korean friend's company. I ate dog several times while I was there.

  The first time was part of a prank in my military unit. We'd take the new guy in country out the first night he was allowed off base, and feed him bul go gi, or kalbi (beef dishes). The next night, we'd take him to a different place that was on the outskirts of the small village we were stationed near. At that place, we'd ask him if he wanted something similar as what he ate the last time, and no matter what he said, order dog for him.

  After dinner we'd tell him what he really ate. As the owner did his own butchering out back, if he still had the remains of a carcass, we'd take the guy out back, point to it, and tell him that's what he really just ate. (It had more impact that way)  My first time was as the new guy. It was good though, so I didn't care. I watched other people have reactions ranging from vomiting on the spot, to going into a fit of rage, or just asking when we were going there to eat again because it was good.

 The next time I ate it was with one of my neighbors. She was a middle aged woman that had a strange obsession with having a mudang (kinda like a shamman/witch doctor like woman) come over from Inchon a lot to perform loud annoying rituals. (probably seeking brownie points with god or whatever out of guilt considering she owned a combination club/whore house or sul chip/galbo chip) For a couple weeks, I'd noticed she kept two puppies (of a specific breed that is apparently always relegated to the pot) on a leash that was maybe 1 foot long next to a bowl of water and a big bowl of food outside her house. When I asked her why she kept them like that she explained in konglish that she was planing to have the dog version of veal and invited me over for dinner. And, well, I have to admit, a little puppy covered in gochujang (hot bean paste), and then grilled over hot wood coals is pretty damned good (juicy and tender). Take the meat, dip it in what I think was tinjang, throw it on a romain lettuce leaf, add a little rice, a chunk of sliced up garlic, and a piece of hot pepper, roll it all up in the lettuce leaf, and eat. It was a damned good meal too.

 Something often not explained is that they don't just go around eating any and all dogs. In Korea at least, I noted a distinction made between dogs meant for the pot, and those kept as pets, guard dogs, etc. A friend of mine that just moved to the US from Korea wouldn't dream of eating the mini-dachshund I recently helped him buy as a pet for his kids for example. He gets an interesting and funny look on his face though every time I call the dog Snack instead of its name Max though... ;)

__
Those in the world shouting "Yankee go home" should bear in mind that the people of the South have been saying the same thing for over 100 years now, but the damned bastards won't leave.

What post were you on? (none / 0) (#67)
by wiredog on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 10:14:55 AM EST

I was at Hovey from Nov 85 to Nov 86. Same story vis a vis dog meat. Tastes good. Did you try those cooked larvae?

The really good way to get the new guys was to eat the dog along with them.

Soju, the hangover from hell.

Can't sleep. The clowns will get me.
[ Parent ]

3 different ones. (none / 0) (#99)
by akma on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 11:46:35 AM EST

They sent me up to Liberty Bell when I first got there ("Hey. You're tall. We're going to send you up to JSA!" kinda thing. That place pretty much sucked as there wasn't really any place to go or any thing to do other than for the 48 hours you got off when you could actually leave durring the 8 day cycle they had, so I turned down the assignment after the evaluation period was up. Then they sent me to Hovey. B 1/38th INF (re-designated 2/503rd sometimes in 87). When I extended for a year in 87, I got a remf slot down in Kwangju where I did pretty much nothign other than drive a hummer all over the place. It beat humping a ruck in an infantry platoon. heh. Well, at least until it got boring.

__
Those in the world shouting "Yankee go home" should bear in mind that the people of the South have been saying the same thing for over 100 years now, but the damned bastards won't leave.
[ Parent ]
Mini-dachshunds make, at best, a snack (none / 0) (#131)
by dachshund on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 02:11:35 PM EST

A friend of mine that just moved to the US from Korea wouldn't dream of eating the mini-dachshund I recently helped him buy as a pet for his kids for example.

And a good thing for him, too. I have two mini-dachshunds, and minus the fat and bone I doubt there's enough meat there to feed a child. Though I am sometimes tempted to grab one of those plump-looking haunches...

[ Parent ]

Some dogs; not others (none / 0) (#268)
by mlepage on Fri Jul 19, 2002 at 10:35:09 AM EST

My wife is from Vietnam. They eat dog there too. But not every dog! If they have a pet dog, they love it and it is not eaten. Just like here. If you had a pet pig here, you wouldn't eat it. But that wouldn't stop you from buying pork at the grocery.

[ Parent ]
Dog meat, cockfighting, and cultural prejudices (2.50 / 4) (#57)
by IHCOYC on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 07:47:03 AM EST

The notion that the animal rightsers were imposing a set of rather silly cultural prejudices was brought home to me during one of the local rows that periodically come to light over cockfighting. While I have no wish to attend one, as far as I am concerned I cannot imagine why anyone finds gamecocks such little dears that they think there's a good reason to make the sport illegal, much less make it a felony like the push was on to do.

What that ilk apparently wished to do was impose their bloodless and lilywhite prejudice as to the appropriate treatment of chickens against rural Southerners, Asians, and others whose only real crime is not sharing their squeamish value system. It galls me, also, that it is probably impossible to stage a traditional bullfight anywhere in the USA.

If I wish to be left to the quiet enjoyment of my own recreations, it behooves me to show others the same courtesy.
--
"Complecti antecessores tuos in spelŠis stygiis Tartari appara," eructavit miles primus.
"Vix dum basiavisti vicarium velocem Mortis," rediit Grignr.
--- Livy

So you don't care about animal cruelty (none / 0) (#102)
by mech9t8 on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 11:52:43 AM EST

If I wish to be left to the quiet enjoyment of my own recreations, it behooves me to show others the same courtesy.

So you wouldn't care if someone's recreation was torturing cats?

There's a big difference between painlessly killing an animal for food and cruelly injuring and torturing it for kicks.  Having a repulsion against eating dogs is obviously a cultural prejudice without much moral backing; having a repulsion against animal cruelty is a moral value, just like moral values against torture or rape or theft.

--
IMHO
[ Parent ]

Cat, dog, bull, cow... (1.00 / 2) (#125)
by TunkeyMicket on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 01:41:18 PM EST

...it doesn't matter what they're torturing, but rather that they are torturing something. Maybe you missed that in ethics class, or slept in that day. Torturing in general is unethical, regardless of what you torture. However, in the United States, it is OK to torture things you will eat, say Cows and Chickens and Pigs, but it is not ok to torture Dogs and Cats. Why? Well these are society mores. A code of ethics that society came up with that override any other code of ethics.

Using one culture's set of morals and mores to judge another culture's set is wrong in some cases, and in other cases it is not.

I must say however that I am no more appalled by the fact that people eat dogs and cats, than I am of the fact that I eat cows and pigs and chickens. Think of all the Hindu's I am disrespecting. Does it bother me? No. Why? Because I respect their culture and I don't impose my code of ethics on them.

Besides, I'm deathly allergic to cats, thus I'm not a big fan of them.

I think people don't like the idea of eating their pet dog/cat, but the odds are you wouldn't like the idea of eating your pet cow/pig/chicken either. Oh well, you hippies can continue your argument...
--
Chris "TunkeyMicket" Watford
[ Parent ]
Bullshit (none / 0) (#142)
by DarkZero on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 02:55:17 PM EST

However, in the United States, it is OK to torture things you will eat, say Cows and Chickens and Pigs, but it is not ok to torture Dogs and Cats.

Actually, no. As the complete lack of legal cockfighting and bullfighting in the United States has shown, it is not legal to torture cows or chickens for fun. It is, however, legal to humanely kill them in the quickest, least painful way possible for human consumption, euthanasia, or alternative reasons. Local laws may, as always, vary widely, but I believe that the same laws apply to dogs and cats on a federal level and in the states where the issue has recently been looked upon.

[ Parent ]

Heh slaughtering of cows... (none / 0) (#161)
by TunkeyMicket on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 03:50:32 PM EST

...is generally done by stunning the animal then slitting its throat. This isn't torture, but then again its not exactly the most humane way. Its pretty cut and dry that if you have to kill something to eat it, then you aren't being humane.

Rating my above comment a 0 was quite jackass of you.
--
Chris "TunkeyMicket" Watford
[ Parent ]
Er, no. (none / 0) (#154)
by mech9t8 on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 03:42:08 PM EST

Torturing in general is unethical, regardless of what you torture.

True.

However, in the United States, it is OK to torture things you will eat, say Cows and Chickens and Pigs, but it is not ok to torture Dogs and Cats.

False.  Animal cruelty is still animal cruelty; torturing "food" animals is no more acceptable than torturing non-food animals.

I must say however that I am no more appalled by the fact that people eat dogs and cats, than I am of the fact that I eat cows and pigs and chickens. Think of all the Hindu's I am disrespecting.

When you humanely kill a cow or a dog to eat it, you're disrespecting the people that think it's wrong to eat a cow or a dog.  The animal, if you do it right, doesn't even notice.   It's alive... it's alive... it's dead.

When you cruelly torture a chicken in cockfight or a bull in a bullring, you're causing physical pain and torture to the animal itself.  The animal experiences great pain.

Surely you can see the difference, non?

So, if you support bullfighting and cockfighting, you therefore must think there's nothing wrong with needless cruelty to animals.  Which is your perogative.  Just be honest about it; don't act like the only reason cockfighting is considered wrong is because it'll offend people.

--
IMHO
[ Parent ]

Oops (none / 0) (#159)
by TunkeyMicket on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 03:48:37 PM EST

Noticing the two scathing comments, I should do a s/torture/kill/ on the thing about what you eat. That was a typo of mine. I don't have too much of a problem with bullfighting/cockfighting, but its not something I'll propogate. Your point on eating animals being disrespectful is well made and I agree with you 100%. I do know the difference, however my miswording didn't help to make this known ;)
--
Chris "TunkeyMicket" Watford
[ Parent ]
Animals are property (none / 0) (#165)
by IHCOYC on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 04:16:56 PM EST

I'm not particularly fond of the notion that somebody might get their kicks by torturing their own cats or dogs. But at least for me there's a countervailing consideration that trumps this.

Cats, dogs, cows, and chickens are all property. People should be able to do as they please with the ones they own. If this includes eating them, it's fine with me. If this includes fighting them so you can gamble on who'll win, don't invite me. I've no real interest in it.

But it doesn't really bother me all that much if this is what other folks are into. If this makes me uncaring or insensitive, so be it. But I really believe that we'd be a more peaceful and better society if we learned not to get on our neighbours' cases for this sort of crusade.
--
"Complecti antecessores tuos in spelŠis stygiis Tartari appara," eructavit miles primus.
"Vix dum basiavisti vicarium velocem Mortis," rediit Grignr.
--- Livy
[ Parent ]

Okay... (none / 0) (#167)
by PhillipW on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 04:19:48 PM EST

I hereby declare you to be my proprty.

Surely you did not forget that you are an animal yourself, did you?

-Phil
[ Parent ]
Well, can't argue with that... (none / 0) (#197)
by mech9t8 on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 07:09:14 PM EST

...other than saying "I think you're wrong, and uncaring and insensitive, and a society that prevents needless cruelty to living things that feel pain is better than a society that does not." ;)

But I guess this is really one of those things that can be considered an arbitary moral absolute, even for the most abstracted and logical moral system.  When figuring out moral decisions, it's a personal decision how much human pain/suffering is worth, and it's a separate decision how much various animals' pain/suffering is worth.

ie. I think taking a dog away from someone who tortures it is worth the strain inflicted on society by enforcing such a rule (on a simple level, preventing animal torture is worth the suffering inflicted by violating the owner's right of ownership); obviously, you would not.

Just be sure you feel right about giving the human right of property precedence over preventing animal cruelty... after all, property is just a societal creation, and in many cultures, people were/are often considered property...

--
IMHO
[ Parent ]

We cannot prevent cruelty to animals that way. (none / 0) (#217)
by IHCOYC on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 12:21:49 AM EST

All we do with your prescription is to create another consensual crime. People who are animal fighting fans will continue to stage them, law or no law. Happens all the time in these parts. Once in a great while, as a result of some random misfortune, some of these people will get arrested.

If your goal was to see these chickens or whatever being treated with the kindness you thought was appropriate, your crusade has already failed. All you have achieved with the law is to add some further cruelty to humans in addition to what the chickens have already endured. I am more fed up with this kind of useless and pernicious legislation than I am worried about animals being mistreated.
--
"Complecti antecessores tuos in spelŠis stygiis Tartari appara," eructavit miles primus.
"Vix dum basiavisti vicarium velocem Mortis," rediit Grignr.
--- Livy
[ Parent ]

Morality vs laws (none / 0) (#223)
by mech9t8 on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 02:05:27 AM EST

For one thing, I made no prescription. I was merely comparing the morality of various situations on a theoretical level.

However, if laws weren't worthwhile unless they were 100% effective, all laws would be worthless. Your classification of animal cruelty as a "consensual crime" simply an expression of your opinion that animals have no rights. Rape is a "consensual crime" for the rapist.

As for the ineffectiveness of such laws in your area, I suspect (a) the local law enforcement just doesn't give a shit, and (b) if people could hold advertised cockfights in the local town's stadium every week, there'd be a lot more of them, and a lot more kids would be trying it out (like, say, baseball).  

I've seen bulls being slowly stabbed to death in a stadium in Spain, with a cheering crowd; that happens several times per night, per stadium, with a bullring in most largish towns, never mind the "practice" bulls and whatnot. I suspect that, due to US law, there are far fewer bulls being tortured to death on a daily basis in the United States.  So that, in that sense, I'd say its working.

And when a parent is trying to teach their kid that torturing animals is wrong, it's probably helpful that the kid can't turn on his TV and see his favorite matador or cockfighter being interviewed.

Cruelty to animals is something that most people just think is wrong; the laws and society are there to reinforce that position. This is different from drug use, which the law says is wrong, but most people and society have very mixed messages about. The situations aren't comparable.

All you have achieved with the law is to add some further cruelty to humans in addition to what the chickens have already endured.

Similarly, all you do when you throw a murderer in jail is add some further cruelty to humans in addition to what the victim has already endured.  What's your point?

As I said, I think we just fundamentally disagree on the degree to which animal cruelty is morally wrong. Moreover, I would guess that the people in my neck of the woods, in general, fundamentally disagree with people in your area about this issue.  In your area, punishing animal torturers would be seen by most as useless and pernicious government interference; in my area, it would be seen as justice.

So, in your area (if I'm right), the laws wouldn't be very effective: like the war on drugs, if society is ambivalent about the morality of laws, they lose a lot of their effectiveness.  I'm not sure what the solution to that is, and that falls into an "imposing morality on others" debate that I'm really not prepared to get into...

--
IMHO
[ Parent ]

one point (3.00 / 3) (#62)
by speek on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 09:28:00 AM EST

...what is much more important here is not about eating dogs, but paying respect to foreign cultures and their practices.

It is no important to "pay respect" to foreign cultures than it is to "pay respect" to other's values. Which is to say, it's very important - but it doesn't lead one to conclude that killing or rape is Ok because someone else thinks so.

To conclude, the consumption of dog meat is not for Western protestors and animal lovers to cry or judge.

I can't agree with this conclusion. It may be that the correct judgement is that it's fine to eat dogs, but it is for "western protestors" and "animal lovers" to judge. It is for everyone to judge. Stop telling us not to.

--
what would be cool, is if there was like a bat signal for tombuck -

You can judge (none / 0) (#226)
by jig on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 02:55:47 AM EST

Just be consistent in your judging.

-----
And none of you stand so tall
Pink moon gonna get ye all

[ Parent ]
The Point (4.85 / 7) (#64)
by JChen on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 09:58:51 AM EST

Many a comment has been posted, yet many of them seem to be off the subject.

The intention is <u>not</u> to:

1) Promote the eating of dog 2) Discourage the eating of dog

It would seem that many a poster has formulated his or her opinion regarding Fido, scrolled down to "post comment", and raved about how eating man's best friend is BAD.

No. The intention is to show that people practice strange things in other cultures, and that it would be hypocritical of us in Western societies to preach under the banner of tolerance while screeching at the dinner practices of others'. It is to show the relationships between man and dog in the primary dog consumption nations of the Koreas and China, and how it differs from Westerner's relationships with their dogs. Please read the article first and forumulate your opinions based on your response to the article, not your emotional outburst when you first see the title.

Please do not vote this down just because you disagree with what I am saying somewhat or wholeheartedly. Vote this down because you believe that this article is poorly written as an Op-Ed, it's hard to read, the grammar is horrible, or for whatever reasons that articles deserve to be voted down. But not just because you disagree with another viewpoint.

Let us do as we say.

Ive had dog in Korea some many years ago (4.75 / 4) (#75)
by Dilligaf on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 10:43:13 AM EST

and it was pretty good.  Better than the pork they had there.  Another point, arent pigs supposed to be as smart or smarter than dogs?  Just cause they arent as cute and cuddly, come on, stop killing Porky and having him for breakfast!   Yea, right, americans are going to cut off their bacon and sausage for breakfast just because some other country doesnt like us eating their pets?  How about cows?  How often do we take a burger from McDonalds<yea yea, questionable as to the true beef content there, so think burgerking then> and get on the city bus and eat it in front of hindus across the asile from us?  We are sitting there eating not their best friend but the representation of GOD!  Oh No!   Are we going to stop eating beef because someone else thinks its just plain wrong, religious, personal, or otherwise?  NOT!  So why should they stop eating dog just because some people like to keep the smelly dirty behindlicking animals in their homes?

Ok, Ill stop ranting but remember, Get Moose and Squirrel!

don't you mean (5.00 / 1) (#110)
by techwolf on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 12:14:52 PM EST

Eat Moose and Squirrel?


"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Thomas Jefferson
[ Parent ]

yea, but... (4.00 / 1) (#114)
by pb on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 12:33:50 PM EST

"Want a sausage?" (Jules)

"Nah. I don't eat pork." (Vincent)

"Are you Jewish?"

"I ain't Jewish man, I just don't dig on swine."

"Why not?"

"They're filthy animals. I don't eat filthy animals."

"Sausages taste good. Pork chops taste good."

"Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie but I?d never know 'cause I wouldn?t eat the filthy motherfuckers. Pig sleep and root in shit. That's a filthy animal. I ain't eatin' nothin' that ain't got enough sense to disregard its own feces."

"How about a dog? Dogs eat their own feces."

"I don't eat dog either."

"Yeah, but do you consider a dog to be a filthy animal?"

"I wouldn't go so far as to call a dog filthy but they're definitely dirty. But, a dog's got personality. Personality goes a long way.

"Ah, so by that rationale, if a pig had a better personality, it'd cease to be a filthy animal. Is that true?"

"Well we gotta be talkin' about one charmin' motherfuckin' pig. I mean he?d have to be ten times more charmin' than that Arnold on Green Acres, you know what I'm sayin'?"

  -- Pulp Fiction
---
"See what the drooling, ravening, flesh-eating hordes^W^W^W^WKuro5hin.org readers have to say."
-- pwhysall
[ Parent ]

intelligent? (4.00 / 2) (#76)
by danny on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 10:43:23 AM EST

They are more intelligent than most other animals, save perhaps pigs

What about primates, especially apes and in particular humans? Are there any dogs posting to Kuro5hin?

Danny.
[900 book reviews and other stuff]

WOOF! (5.00 / 1) (#81)
by Dilligaf on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 10:50:30 AM EST

Bark.


[ Parent ]
Reminds me of an old cartoon.. (none / 0) (#113)
by CaptainSuperBoy on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 12:33:43 PM EST

On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog.

--
jimmysquid.com - I take pictures.
[ Parent ]
Horse meat (4.50 / 4) (#78)
by SpaceCoyote on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 10:48:50 AM EST

No one in the West eats horse meat, either, though apparently it is nutritious and by all accounts tastes good. This partly goes back to the year 732 when Pope Gregory III outlawed the eating of horse meat as it was seen as pagan. But it's another example of people just not feeling right about eating the animals they are exposed to most frequently. The first time I had squabs in a fancy restaurant it took me a while to square in my head that I wasn't eating a pidgeon off the street. It's all a matter of perception. As long as an animal isn't reated cruelly or is endangered I see no problem in eating it.
___ Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum.
Hearsay (3.50 / 2) (#83)
by tin the fatty on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 10:55:25 AM EST

I was told that in France horse meat is supposed to be a delicacy.

[ Parent ]
Horse meat in France (4.00 / 2) (#90)
by Fred_A on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 11:21:01 AM EST

It's not really considered a delicacy, but you'll find it fairly easily. Lots of people won't have it because they've never tried it and most people won't eat what they don't already know.

I have some every now and then and it's quite good, more tasty than beef and very tender.

And to go back to the original topic, I for one wouldn't mind having cat or dog as long as it isn't one I knew before hand. :)

I do have a problem with insects but I tried ants and grasshoppers and both were quite good (you can get those išn Paris too, there's even an insect restaurant ; I still have to find a dog restaurant though).

Fred in Paris
[ Parent ]

This is true (none / 0) (#133)
by Triggerle on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 02:25:13 PM EST

They have a special section with horse meat in the french supermarket here (central Europe, near French border), right next to chicken, pork, and cow.

Right next to this is actually rabbit meat, which is accepted widely throughout europe despite the cuteness of rabbits.

(BTW: I am a vegetarian and find eating dogs not any more disgusting as eating cows.)

--
"and if I go north...will you still hunt me?"
[ Parent ]

Actually... (4.00 / 4) (#89)
by Oscaro on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 11:16:11 AM EST

Actually, in Italy, there are MANY "equine butcheries" (macellerie equine, in italian), where horse meat is sold. It is an absolutely common habit to eat horse meat, here...

[ Parent ]
endangered (4.00 / 4) (#97)
by codemonkey_uk on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 11:37:25 AM EST

As long as an animal isn't reated cruelly or is endangered I see no problem in eating it.
As long as an animal isn't endangered? I'd say being eaten is pretty dangerous!

What you say? Your talking about the species being endangered, not the individual animal...

   ;)
---
Thad
"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there is no good evidence either way." - Bertrand Russell
[ Parent ]

Don't eat horse in California! (4.00 / 1) (#118)
by forii on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 12:59:01 PM EST

Sadly enough, in 1998, Proposition 6 was passed in California, making it a felony to use "any equine" for human consumption. Why this needed to be a law is beyond me, as horse meat is not commonly consumed in the US.  But 60% of California voters (but not me) decided that it was a good idea.
Proud member of the ACLU, the NRA, and the EFF.
[ Parent ]
horse meat (none / 0) (#284)
by strlen on Sat Jul 20, 2002 at 08:30:01 PM EST

i also fail to see why this is a problem. actually, horse meat is very safe and very consumeable. natives of northern siberia consume horse meat, partly because it is immune to a series of deceases which are deadly to human and abundant in that climate. also in russia eating rabbit meat is pretty common, never heard of it in the us. and in russia we dont eat deer meat, as i believe its done here.

--
[T]he strongest man in the world is he who stands most alone. - Henrik Ibsen.
[ Parent ]
chevaline (none / 0) (#153)
by loudici on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 03:37:52 PM EST

look here
all said...they have a website to promote their horsemeat sausage! and compiegne is where napoleon had his palace. you can hardly have more western than that!
gnothi seauton
[ Parent ]
Actually .... (none / 0) (#234)
by NihilismNow on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 07:06:54 AM EST

In the Netherlands which likes to consider itself part of the west , eating horsemeat is quite normal. Raw ground up horse is called filet american . And on the pidgeon thing . One City had a lot of their pidgeons killed and processed into Pate. NihilismNow

[ Parent ]
Viande de Cheval in Quebec (4.00 / 1) (#283)
by zhiwenchong on Sat Jul 20, 2002 at 05:13:02 PM EST

In Quebec, a part of north America, horse and bison meat can be had at the local supermarket. So can frogs legs and snails.

[ Parent ]
horse meat.. (none / 0) (#285)
by strlen on Sat Jul 20, 2002 at 08:33:06 PM EST

horse meat is a staple among natives of yakutia, a very cold region of northern siberia in russia. its eaten, often, because its immune from deceases that are dangerous to human, and are very common amongst other lattidues in that attitude, and due to the fact its very nutrious and healthy (which is a requirement for survival in that region, which is considered to be the 'pole of coldness' with some of the record low temperatures in the northern hemisphere).

--
[T]he strongest man in the world is he who stands most alone. - Henrik Ibsen.
[ Parent ]
The don't eat dogs crowd... (4.50 / 6) (#80)
by porkchop_d_clown on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 10:50:18 AM EST

The whole "it's okay to eat cows but not dogs" (or deer or monkeys or anything else) idea has always struck me as very hypocritical. To be a vegan is one thing; to assert that there is a moral difference between serving porkchops or dogchops is ridiculous.


--
The gift that lasts a lifetime: Give your child "mental blocks" this christmas!


so, are humans out? (4.00 / 1) (#112)
by trener on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 12:28:33 PM EST

what about cannibalism?

of course there's a moral line drawn somewhere. some people draw that line at cows - anything more 'cute and cuddly' than a cow isn't food. that's fine for them.

some people don't. some people feel that dogs, cats, monkeys, whatever are okay to eat. that's fine for them, as well.

now, obviously, there's a BIG LINE drawn when you start talking about eating people. but still, that's just moral convention. there's no particular reason why eating human meat is bad for you. it's just that a lot of people find it morally wrong to start eating humans. (myself included - don't think i'm advocating cannibalism here, hehe.. just trying to make a point)

anyway, point is: it's all pretty arbitrary. deal with it. some people find eating dogs offensive - it's not hypocritical, it's just them positioning that 'moral line' in a different place than you would.

[ Parent ]
dogs are not people (5.00 / 1) (#176)
by Phelan on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 04:36:26 PM EST

There's a lot more differences to people eating each other than you would propose in your post. Cannibalism vs. dog-eating is not simply a "different moral choice".

Common cannibalism is an anti-social practice, and it's doubtful to me that any thriving modern society would have evolved that habituated the practice. After all, it's awfully hard to live and work with someone if you can't trust that they're not going to whack you over the head and eat you. I can't imagine living in an apartment building, for instance, where hundreds of people around you could conceivably consider you a food source at any given time.

On the other hand, societies could easily thrive eating just about any other animal, such as cows, dogs, cats, or, heck, even guinea pigs (Peru). There's obviously a big difference (in terms of group survival, society, etc) from "habitually eating your own kind" to "habitually preying on anything else" beyond a simple arbitrary moral decision.

[ Parent ]

dogs are people (none / 0) (#200)
by guidoreichstadter on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 07:31:17 PM EST

There's a lot less difference to people eating each other than you would propose in your post.

You say that "common cannibalism" is an anti-social practice, suggesting that it generates feelings of mistrust and isolation, which prevent the development of a "thriving modern society." Yet, these "thriving modern societies" which populate the globe have very nearly destroyed themselves and life itself a number of times in the last century, and their long term survival while they continue to do so is serious question. Can you imagine living in a world with 6 billion other people that could conceivably consider sentient life a food source at any given time? Because that is the paradise/hell that we live in.

We have never stopped eating each other. The West grew fat on the bodies of countless slaves, the children of whose ancestors are dying by AIDS by the millions right now while the West congratulates its absolved conscience, Americans fuel their cars with Iraqi blood, the leaders everywhere eat the lives of those they have power over. People eat people just as they eat all other sentient life.

perhaps deciding not to eat our next-door neighbors is what made these "thriving modern societies" possible. We will certainly not transcend these self-destructive nihlistic utopias untill we decide not to eat any people, wherever they live.

All sentient lives are people.


you are human:
no masters,
no slaves.
[ Parent ]

Dude, you lost me. (5.00 / 2) (#242)
by Phelan on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 08:51:58 AM EST

The West grew fat on the bodies of countless slaves, the children of whose ancestors are dying by AIDS by the millions right now while the West congratulates its absolved conscience, Americans fuel their cars with Iraqi blood, the leaders everywhere eat the lives of those they have power over. People eat people just as they eat all other sentient life.

Just about when you decided to get off the subject of actual cannibalism, and decided to go on an anti-modern-society rant (which, ultimatly has nothing to do with eating dogs or people) is about the exact same time I decided that I couldn't give a shit about what you were saying.

Thanks anyway.

[ Parent ]

on cannibalism (4.00 / 1) (#221)
by durkie on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 01:07:53 AM EST

a while ago, the http://manbeef.com link was being passed around my group of friends (yes it is fake, by the way). their claim was that they could get post-harvesting cadavers and slice them up for some good eats, at an unbelievably premium price. this was of interest, because a year or so back, it had come up in conversation that my friend had always wanted to know what human meat tasted like. i, even though a vegetarian, figured i would try it as well. as another friend put it - "that's just too fucked up not to do". so interest in manbeef.com grew, and it really freaked me out initially. after looking at their "cuts" page, i went outside to eat dinner. things felt so different. i would see people outside, socializing, playing frisbee, walking around...and, although not quite as visual as you would imagine, i would 'see' cuts of meat in these people. it wasn't really seeing it, it was just that i was now considering these people as food. seeing people laughing in the dining hall, talking with each other... and they were just food products. it made me feel a bit isolated, but i think that was because i truly was the only one looking at everyone else as food. it was a bizarre experience....i wouldn't call it scary...just like "whoa". it seemed like impresive testimony for going vegan. after all, i was now living among the food products, and interacted with them on a daily basis...how could i eat them?

on another note, the willingness to sample human meat is a very polarized issue, apparently. during this whole time, i was talking about it with my colleagues, and they were either very opposed to the very notion of it, or very in to it. no middle ground.

[ Parent ]

Would you eat your hunting buddy? (4.62 / 8) (#84)
by jolly st nick on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 10:57:17 AM EST

Eating beef and condemning eating dog is, objectively, inconsistent.

However, I think that the reaction against eating dog is a bit deeper than simple Western cultural bias; or rather I don't think it is the same kind of cultural bias as the one against eating insects. I think it has to do with the unique relationship dogs of all animals have with humans. We are both pack animals. The legends of humans adopted into wolf packs have it backwards -- the wolves were adopted into the human packs.

The consideration that some people have in not eating dog is the same consideration people have in not eating their neighbors or coworkers. Clearly this is a fairly universal taboo, although cultures do differ on whether it is OK to eat strangers. That this taboo is what is in play is corroborated by the fact that in cultures where people do eat dog, they don't knowingly eat ones that were kept as pets.

The Western bias against eating dog simply comes from our automatic assumption that dogs are pets.



Dog and Cat (2.33 / 3) (#86)
by tin the fatty on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 11:06:01 AM EST

Funny the article mentioned the Cat Salvation Army. Until about a decade ago restaurants in Hong Kong would occasionally do a "Dragon Tiger Phoenix" fest, being snake, cat and chicken meat. Somehow this "went out of fashion" and people stopped doing it.

I don't have problems with people eating dog meat. I have problems with how people mistreat dogs for meat. I have been told that in the Southern region of China, dogs for meat are generally killed by a good beating with a stick.

Hearsay (4.50 / 2) (#94)
by JChen on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 11:30:30 AM EST

I come from "the Southern region of China", more specifically the province of Jiangxi. Dogs are killed in an efficient fashion similar to chickens: chop off the head (on smaller dogs) or slicing its throat, quickly bleeding it to death with a minimum of suffering. This process is also illustrated graphically in one of the protestor's sites.

Logic would indicate that "dogs for meat are genearlly killed by a good beating with a stick" is quite ludicrous: the butcher would put him/herself in danger of getting bitten should one attempt to beat the dog to death.

Let us do as we say.
[ Parent ]

Cruelty to Dogs (none / 0) (#103)
by tin the fatty on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 11:57:23 AM EST

I have no way to verify the hearsay, nor do I have the intention to: if it were true, the sense of helplessness would be so overwhelming.

I came across this before I typed the previous post: http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/stbernards.htm. It is not entirely unbelievable.

The problem with the dog fighting back is easily solved by first putting the dog into a sack, or simply tie it up.

[ Parent ]

It gets really messy (5.00 / 1) (#109)
by JChen on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 12:14:38 PM EST

when you try to beat something to death.

And the truth of the matter is, yes, there are sadists out there who torture dogs. But this composes a very small minority: the market for dog is simply a market. It takes much, much longer to make sure that you have beaten a dog do death than to kill it in an efficient manner; it makes no economic sense to do so. You do not want to put in unncessary labor in beating and then cleaning it up.

In all, such rumors are most often just rumors. You cannot say under the pretext of knowing a guy who beat his dog to death that all dogs suffer such a fate. And to understand the truth is more important than to profess hyped fiction.

Let us do as we say.
[ Parent ]

Not related to dog as food (none / 0) (#211)
by marc987 on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 09:20:51 PM EST

The problem with the dog fighting back is easily solved by first putting the dog into a sack, or simply tie it up.

Sadism and torture is a problem all over the world and not particular to any area or animal for that matter.

[ Parent ]

A Cruel Site of the Day (4.00 / 1) (#87)
by isdnip on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 11:07:11 AM EST

Via a "cruel site" (humor) list, I came across http://www.delicousdogs.com/ .  Take it as you will; I think there's a big tongue in cheek there, but not exactly aimed at dog-eaters.

BTW I remember some years ago reading an article in a  skiing magazine about a visit to northeast China.  The writer was served a local delicacy, cat and dog stew.  Now that's one dish I don't expect many westerners to like!  (But I did see lion meat at a market in Boston.  That's a cat.)

Site down - Kuroded (none / 0) (#93)
by n8f8 on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 11:27:12 AM EST

Hmm, how do we refer to sites that get Slashdotted by Kuro5hin members.

Kuroded?

Max Kuro5hin?

Sig: (This will get posted after your comments)
[ Parent ]

i think you'll find... (none / 0) (#168)
by werner on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 04:22:06 PM EST

...that this is commonly known as a "typo". http://www.deliciousdogs.com

[ Parent ]
Vicky Lynn (5.00 / 6) (#88)
by swf on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 11:07:39 AM EST

... the quite ironic AHAN, or Asians for Humans, Animals and Nature (headed by a quite non-Asian Ms. Vicky Lynn).
Really? She looks pretty asian to me!

You can't judge someone by their name. I live in a residential college, most asian girls I know have english names because it makes it easier to live in the environment. Too many people judge others by there names, please don't be one of them.

I'm Sorry (4.00 / 1) (#91)
by JChen on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 11:22:54 AM EST

My mistake. I must learn not to be so quick to judge myself :p

This does to serve another point: notice also that although the site that links to her site explicitly attacks eating dog, her site is more concerned with resucing cats and dogs from the Bay area, not an anti-eating-dog crusade in Asia.

Let us do as we say.
[ Parent ]

Asian?... (5.00 / 1) (#209)
by marc987 on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 09:11:19 PM EST

What are her dominant stereotypical features?
Where was she born?
Where was she raised?
Where is she a citizen?
What are her parents dominant stereotypical features?
Where were they born?
Etc, Etc

-Human, after that it's just smoke and mirrors

[ Parent ]

You're right (none / 0) (#227)
by KWillets on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 02:58:15 AM EST

That's a cat!

[ Parent ]
Silliness (4.00 / 4) (#96)
by raygundan on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 11:32:16 AM EST

I always found this whole "special animals" thing a little bit silly. If you eat cow/pig/chicken/fish, what the heck is so drastically different about eating dog?

In a similar vein, there was a huge expose-type news story here a few years back where reporters were outraged to find out that discount fur coats sold locally were being made with cat fur in China. It seems a tad funny to me for people purchasing fur coats made from OTHER cute and cuddly furry animals to get up in arms over coats being made from cats.

But people are different, and if they want to work themselves into an uproar over dog meat and then go grab a burger with some friends, that's their right.

I very much agree. (none / 0) (#135)
by zoobiewa on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 02:30:54 PM EST

One of the things that humans avoid eating are things that are intelligent. We buy dolphin free tuna, wouldn't think of eating our pets, and abhor societies that feast on monkeys, dogs, and cats. The notable exception to this is the pig. The pig is a relatively clean animal that is highly intelligent, but it has received a reputation for being fat, lazy, dirty, and unclean. It seems that these descriptions are used to justify our love of piggie ingestion. Because pigs are famously as intelligent, or more intelligent than dogs, it does not seem that intelligence has any precedence for the morality of eating. It comes down to likability. We really don't care how intelligent animals are, but we raise a fit when the cute, friendly, and playful are murdered and devoured.

[ Parent ]
Who cares about dogs? (3.33 / 3) (#105)
by CaptainSuperBoy on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 12:09:52 PM EST

Who cares if people eat dogs? We have to stop the Taiwanese from eating babies!

--
jimmysquid.com - I take pictures.
who cares (none / 0) (#119)
by cerberusti on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 01:10:59 PM EST

Who cares if people eat babies? We have to stop the people from eating... wait, why do you feel the need to stop anyone from eating anything? (although until I am done with my body, I would rather not see it eaten)

[ Parent ]
in usa those are not babies... (1.14 / 7) (#128)
by minus273 on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 01:49:53 PM EST

they are fetuses, remember that or every liberal from MA to CA will be up you ass for using a term that denies women their right to deny someone else their right.. so just get that straight ok! or planned parent hood and NOW will come after you.

[ Parent ]
Wow (1.33 / 3) (#174)
by CaptainSuperBoy on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 04:34:47 PM EST

You have my utmost respect - this is certainly a hostile environment for someone with your beliefs.

Oh.. by the way, you are a moronic fuckstick for coming on here and parroting back those typical inflammatory statements. Do you know why Falwell and pals say the stuff that you take as gospel and parrot back to anyone who will listen? Because people like YOU give them money. Do you think they give a shit? They'd go on TV and say that homosexual abortionists are God's gift to mankind if that would appease the mindless dipshits. Don't you belong on Yahoo groups? I thought that was where the stereotypical loudmouth republicans make their views known.

And don't call me a 'demwit' or a 'knee-jerk' or a fucking murderer. I think for myself.. unlike you and the million other angry white males (probably you) who are worrying about the 'moral climate' while Dubya and Johnny are assfucking the USA by destroying personal freedoms, one by one.

--
jimmysquid.com - I take pictures.
[ Parent ]

actuall (1.33 / 3) (#180)
by minus273 on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 04:51:55 PM EST

i am a hindu, asian male with a socialist family. sorry dude, wrong target, kinda shows you how how dumb you are.
if you dont believe me look at my posting history.
I wasonce like you, i formed my opinions by READING both sides. if that bothers you im sorry...
you sound like the usual ignorant liberal who thinks they are right because their masters (the party leaders) tell them so.. quite sad really


[ Parent ]
Dude (1.33 / 3) (#185)
by CaptainSuperBoy on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 05:52:05 PM EST

Dude. I said YOU didn't think for yourself.. I said that YOU are the one who believes everything they hear from Falwell/Buchanan/Shrub. Aren't you coming back with a little, "well so do you?" Come up with your own argument. The fact that I attack stereotypical conservatives, like you, makes me a typical liberal. Riiiight.. because in your distorted perspective you're either a party-line republican or an 'ignorant liberal.'

FYI I have many opinions that could be considered conservative, but none when it comes to matters of personal freedom. I don't want to turn this into an abortion debate, as I am certain your views are entirely irrational and unchanging. But believe me: I've looked over some of your posts, and you ARE a stereotype. A monkey could copy articles over from Newsmax onto K5 and it would be more interesting than you.

As I said: Get back to some dumb message board, they eat up your kind of reactionary drivel there. Just say 'Massachusetts' and 'knee-jerk' a lot, they love it.

Next time you're stalking abortion doctors, give that some thought!

--
jimmysquid.com - I take pictures.
[ Parent ]

you are quite pathetic (1.33 / 3) (#206)
by minus273 on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 08:36:46 PM EST

and exactly the type of liberal i described in my reply . You cant keep your calm when you are wrong because you have been indoctrinated to assume since you are "right" i am wrong. In every country i have been to, i have seen that the inability to realise 2 things:
1. you could be wrong
2. if you are wrong it is wiser to be humble and accept the fact

ARE the hallmarks of the left and you fit that pattern.

For the record, of the names you mentioned, I have only heard of Buchanan, the rest are probably wackos, funny how you seem more interested in them than i am. And what the hell is Newsmax? If you read stuff like that no wonder you are so ignorant. Jesus, if you are going to name a magazine of the right, might was well say The Economist or something more relevant. You are just another liberal, following the orders of your god -- the party leader-- spitting out insults.

next time you decide to purge significant parts of the population, kill millions in the killing fields, have a cultural revolution, starve your people, support anti-asian racism (anti nam protesters if you are ignorant) and the like.. becareful
also remember that there are no such things are personal freedoms, everything a creation of people, it all boils down to morals.. which again is merely another of mans creations.. i personally believe that everyone has a right the life. you may disagree probably because you dont think some people are human. sound familiar? why dont you take your nazi beliefs and run along and if you are too ignorant to know what the nazi reference comes from look a bit in to the realtionship between racism, planned parenthood, the nazi party, eugenics and marget swanger... i pretty sure you will be surprised... or are you scared.. huh little kid?

[ Parent ]
You found me out. (2.33 / 3) (#208)
by CaptainSuperBoy on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 09:03:14 PM EST

Yup. Jewish, mostly libertarian is apparently the same as being a Nazi in your warped little head. Where do you dig this stuff up? It's as I expected - for someone who claims to have studied all sorts of viewpoints, you sure are quick to label anyone and everyone an evil liberal.

I don't think anyone who supports the right to abortion would agree that some people are not human.. for me it is merely an issue of what role the government should play in the modern world. Those who believe the government's purpose is to regulate morality, such as yourself, must admit they support large government. Large government invariably leads to oppression, corruption, and at its worst, totalitarianism.

Still, I love how you guys get worked up about morality while your gods (to pawn your phrase), the corporations, seize control of government for the purpose of profit. It is you, the ignorant sheep, who allow yourselves to be exploited.

Also - I can't let this one slide - you're saying the antiwar protesters were anti-Asian racists? You're not actually defending a war the US had absolutely no business in, that left over 500,000 Vietnamese and 50,000 US soldiers dead? You're saying we were justified in slaughtering entire villages, using napalm as an anti-personnel weapon? A war that was fought largely by poor and minority draftees. But you're saying the anti-war protests were racist. Mister, you need to get your facts straight and your head out of your ass.

There's no arguing with fools like you. This stops now. You're harmless - I'm just worried that there are so many sheep like you.

--
jimmysquid.com - I take pictures.
[ Parent ]

yup (1.00 / 2) (#244)
by minus273 on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 10:17:27 AM EST

goto asia and find out for yourself talk to some vietnamese .. i was once like you..ignorant .. you'll be surprised. Being asian myself, i say that the US had plenty of business there and it was people like you that were trying to have us killed off.. i personally can say, coming form a neighbor of china, had it not been for Nam, my family and i would have been killed off long ago....

and jews can act like nazi.. go look at some isreali MPs if you need example.. being jewinsh doesnt exempt you or justify your actions if that is what you imply.

Take your communism and shove it!


[ Parent ]
Liberal? (none / 0) (#186)
by CaptainSuperBoy on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 05:54:36 PM EST

And BTW, when was the last time you heard a liberal say that personal freedom and small government were most important? Know your enemy, buddy..

--
jimmysquid.com - I take pictures.
[ Parent ]
P.E.T.A (4.66 / 3) (#106)
by Dilligaf on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 12:11:58 PM EST

People Eating Tasty Animals?

OT: Your username (none / 0) (#216)
by gbd on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 12:18:46 AM EST

DILLIGAF

Very nice .. my compliments. ;-)

I wonder how many folks "get it?"

--
Gunter glieben glauchen globen.
[ Parent ]

goshdarnit sounds soo.. familiar (none / 0) (#278)
by eurasian on Fri Jul 19, 2002 at 06:18:57 PM EST

i asssume u're not referring to the biker band that comes up in google... i seem to have visions of D&D.. argh. someone illuminate me on this?
thanx


___

[ Parent ]
Nethack, anyone? (3.00 / 1) (#117)
by houser2112 on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 12:54:29 PM EST

I can't remember the exact repercussions of eating your starting pet, but I do know that there were tangible penalties to doing so. I think it either gave you bad luck, or maybe even as severe as divine retribution. I'll have to get myself back into that game now. :)

Eating your pet (none / 0) (#126)
by squinky on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 01:43:36 PM EST

gives you the aggravate monster intrinsic.

It may also abuse your luck (which effects prayer results I think).


[ Parent ]

Terry? That you? (none / 0) (#157)
by GhostfacedFiddlah on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 03:46:37 PM EST

If not you bear a startling resemblance to him.

[ Parent ]
Nevermind (none / 0) (#162)
by GhostfacedFiddlah on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 03:53:47 PM EST

Looking back in your comments, it doesn't seem very likely.
Well, good day to you, sir.


[ Parent ]
Any pet-like creature, actually (none / 0) (#264)
by Koutetsu on Fri Jul 19, 2002 at 01:22:16 AM EST

To my knowledge, eating any cat or dog gave the same effects. Proving even that the all-encompassing minds behind Nethack have their own ideas about what to consider food...

[ Parent ]
Cat barbeque link (4.00 / 1) (#120)
by Silent Chris on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 01:12:46 PM EST

I can't believe nobody mentioned this story.  Guy is facing $5,000 fine and years in prison.  Ouch.

yes but.. (none / 0) (#148)
by makolee on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 03:09:22 PM EST

They (a) weren't going to eat it and (b) were cooking the poor thing live. If you corner a live cow/pig/chicken in a barbeque pit for the fun of watching it burn to death, that's cruelty too.

Still, I'm sure the fact that this was a cute kitten played no small role.
--
Mako Hill
[ Parent ]

Actually, in some countries they eat cats as well. (none / 0) (#270)
by Puzzle on Fri Jul 19, 2002 at 10:50:20 AM EST

But they are killed before they are put on the grill.

[ Parent ]
I couldn't help it... (3.25 / 4) (#122)
by dissonant on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 01:29:39 PM EST

... 1) not endangered, and 2) has been a part of their society for thousands of years ...
Let's see how this works for humans: #1 - CHECK (we're even OVERPOPULATING!), #2 - I could always book a flight to Papua New Guinea... WOO HOO, fresh brains here I come! Mmmm... <zombievoice>Fresh Brains...</zombievoice>

Dogs were not bred for consumption (3.16 / 6) (#123)
by asv108 on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 01:32:22 PM EST

I too agree that it is very hypocritical to object to Asians eating dogs while I'm woofing down a #6 from BK. However, I think one of the main reasons people object to the harvesting of dogs is because they were never bred for consumption. Dogs were bred as workers & companions, many were chosen because they have human-like traits and facial mannerisms. This is why, besides the fact that they are cute and fuzzy, these groups object to the eating of dogs even if they are unaware of it.

There is probably a lot more mistreatment of canines going on in the US than Korea or any other country that eats dogs. Personally, I would eat a human (preferably an Asian dog eater) before I would put fido on the grill.

Chow chow. (4.50 / 2) (#143)
by claudius on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 02:59:29 PM EST

Actually, some breeds of dogs have historically been bred for the table.  The Black Tongue Chow, for example, was bred specifically for consumption, as was the Chihuahua.  

[ Parent ]
Chow = working dog (none / 0) (#164)
by asv108 on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 03:55:34 PM EST

Characteristics--An ancient breed of northern Chinese origin, this all-purpose dog of China was used for hunting, herding, pulling and protection of the home. While primarily a companion today, his working origin must always be remembered when assessing true Chow type

[ Parent ]
Other sources -- Chows as Food (5.00 / 1) (#169)
by catseye on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 04:22:20 PM EST

"The Chow was also found to be living like royality themselves with the Emperors and noblemen of the time, but they were also use eaten, being raised much like cattle."

From: Woodland Chow Chows

"These dogs served a variety of purposes from guarding and herding, to hunting and retrieving. A cart dog that could double as a war dog, the Chow was also raised for its fur and meat. Many a wealthy Chinese lord wore robes trimmed with Chow, while the straighter the hind leg, the more tender and easily carved was the meat. The bluer the tongue, the tastier the meat, apparently somewhat like "strong lamb". While these "edible" Chows were kept in sties and raised as food, others, owned by wealthy noblemen, lived in luxury with their own servants."

From: Tigh A'Ruadh Chow Chows

----------
How can we fight Islamic Fundamentalism abroad if we do not fight Christian Fundamentalism at home?
[ Parent ]
i wouldn't eat an asian dog eater (none / 0) (#184)
by TheLogician on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 05:16:26 PM EST

I suppose though, before you'd eat an asian dog eater, you'd eat a chicken egg. Do you know what a chicken egg is? Or maybe milk. The liquid nutrients coming from a cow's udder intended to feed its calf is a perfectly good source of energy. But dog meat on the other hand, oh no, that's wrong.

[ Parent ]
I eat all kinds of meat (2.00 / 2) (#127)
by BLU ICE on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 01:48:33 PM EST

Except dog, cat, and pork. I do not want to eat any relatively intelligent animal. i just don't have a problem with cowes, sheep, chickens, etc. because they are so amazingly stupid.

"Is the quality of this cocaine satisfactory, Mr. Delorean?"
"As good as gold."

-- I am become Troll, destroyer of threads.
It's like an encyclopedia...sorta: Everything2

your logic... (none / 0) (#147)
by makolee on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 03:04:19 PM EST

I'm not sure I follow your logic here. Why do stupid animals make more appropriate meals?

I like the rule though. I don't eat pork and I like your justification. I also love turkey which, from my experience, must be the stupidest animal in the world.
--
Mako Hill
[ Parent ]

You've only seel domesticated turkeys then (none / 0) (#288)
by slackhaus on Sun Jul 21, 2002 at 03:52:05 AM EST

DOn't let tohose big dumb wite birds confuse you, Wild Turkeys are VERY smart. They have a communication that could almost be considered a language. And for other reasons but I am way to tired to look them up now.

[ Parent ]
How about really stupid pigs? (none / 0) (#152)
by aprentic on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 03:34:51 PM EST

Like mentally retarded ones.
Or pigs that got dropped on their heads when they were piglets?
:)

[ Parent ]
So when do we start eating Jerry Springer guests? (4.00 / 1) (#160)
by HidariJoe on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 03:49:05 PM EST

I mean if we're using intelligence as a marker for what we should and shouldn't eat.
---Rise Phobos, Knight of Mars! -Howling Hank Murphy
[ Parent ]
Next Tuesday, if you can deliver one. [nt] (none / 0) (#214)
by Majromax on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 10:25:51 PM EST



[ Parent ]
yum! (none / 0) (#233)
by Greyshade on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 06:43:57 AM EST

Can I get mine marinated with pineapple and ginger?

[ Parent ]
Jerry Springer guests (none / 0) (#237)
by dvNull on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 07:17:07 AM EST

Like all Jerry Springer shows they also taste bad

dvNuLL


If you can see this, then the .sig fell off.
[ Parent ]

this my just be me .. but (4.00 / 2) (#129)
by minus273 on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 01:55:15 PM EST

the way i look at it, is we eat fish and birds largely without any descrimination. However, when it comes to mammals we tend to stay away from carnivores. I mean all of the animals that we eat are either herbivores and i believe the pig is an an omnivore (correct me here if i am wrong)..
my point being the way things work in nature, you dont really have one animal from the top of the cain eating another animal that is not a prey animal.. i can see most of the animals we eat being at one time out prey.. i dont think we humans actively ate wolves..
just my $.02 ..


Omnivores (5.00 / 1) (#141)
by europeanson on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 02:53:13 PM EST

Dogs are omnivores too.
Like foxes or bears they prefer meat, but are omnivores.

-- my other signature is even funnier
[ Parent ]
hmmm (none / 0) (#181)
by minus273 on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 04:55:08 PM EST

i dunno about that doesnt thta have something to do with the appendix.. i remeber that my dog used to eat grass when it was sick so that it would puke..

[ Parent ]
woops! (none / 0) (#182)
by minus273 on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 04:56:05 PM EST

sorry my bad.. forgot.. my dog also ate rice :-P.. asian dogs hahah you're right

[ Parent ]
Carnivores (5.00 / 1) (#149)
by jolly st nick on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 03:30:09 PM EST

I expect that people don't eat carnivores much these days because it is difficult to domesticate them.

Dogs, as a pack animal are an exception, and not coincidentally it is not at all uncommon for dogs to be eaten. Nonetheless, carnivores tend not to become staples because of the inefficiency. It takes something like ten pounds of food to produce a pound of flesh, if that food is flesh itself, then each pound of flesh requires a hundred pounds of feed, once removed as it were.

In terms of wild game, top level carnivores require large range and are not available in concentrated abundance, and therefore must tend to be a smaller part of any wild game based diet. You may argue that wolves are not uncommon, but they are when compared (in a natural setting) to animals like buffalo which graze.

[ Parent ]

Why we don't eat carnivors (5.00 / 1) (#150)
by aprentic on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 03:32:15 PM EST

Some cultures do occasionally eat carnivores but it's rare for some pretty good reasons.
1) Carnivore meat tends to be much tougher than omnivore meat.
2) Carnivores are much harder to hunt, since they tend to fight back.
3) Carnivores are very diffcult to raise in captivity. Their diets are expensive and they agress at each other when you keep them in large groups.

[ Parent ]
Too expensive (none / 0) (#252)
by bigsexyjoe on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 02:37:13 PM EST

Actually in the book Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond, (which I recommend), it is explained that it is not economical to raise carnivores as livstock.

Here is the reason: For every pound of animal flesh, that animal must be fed approximately ten pounds of food. So for every pound of meat from a herbivore ten pounds of crops must be grown. A carnivore must be fed ten pounds of meat which in turn must be fed about one hundred pounds of crops. Ironically, cows are now sometimes fed a cannabalistic diet and this is how mad cow disease spreads.

[ Parent ]

Even within the west... (4.80 / 10) (#130)
by spammacus on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 02:04:27 PM EST

...we impose cultural values on each other.

I grew up in a small town on Canada's East coast, where it is traditional to hunt seals.  The hunt was banned for many years, due to a severe population decrease in seals at the early part of the century.  Problem is, now there are too many seals, and they have become a pest, and are preventing many important fish populations from recovering (mostly cod fish).

The government has been playing with the idea of re-opening a small, controlled seal hunt now for several years, to decrease the number of seals, allow aboriginal peoples to revive a tradition, and to promote a small industry in one of the country's poorest areas.  However, every time it is mentioned, activists from Greenpeace and their ilk scuttle the process with fairly one-sided propaganda.

Why are they so adamant that seals should be spared, even when they are killing of other species?  Perhaps because seals are cute and elicit a positive reaction from the public, whereas codfish are bloody ugly?  I don't know.  That doesn't strike me as a good criterion.  I do however believe that Greenpeace + co are either ignorant or hypocritical in this situation.

Perhaps something similar is happening here.  Let's face it: dogs are cuter that cows and pigs.
-- "Asshole, deconstruct thyself." - Mr. Surly

Replying to Myself... heh (4.00 / 1) (#132)
by spammacus on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 02:12:53 PM EST

I just remebered that when I was living in France, I noticed that you could buy horse meat sausages in the grocery store. When I told my Canadian friends about this, they expressed similar revulsion.  I guess I have to agree witht he writer of this article.  It is senseless to bash each other over sucha subjective cultural issue.
-- "Asshole, deconstruct thyself." - Mr. Surly
[ Parent ]
greenpeace (4.00 / 1) (#136)
by techwolf on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 02:41:31 PM EST

is a good force when the species is on the verge of dissapering but then they carry the craptoodamn far. the cod trouble is blamed on overfishing but thats untrue. it has to do with seal pops being about three times what they were in the 1890's


"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Thomas Jefferson
[ Parent ]

The Granola People adn Bastet (none / 0) (#155)
by HidariJoe on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 03:44:27 PM EST

The Granola people are just as hypocritical as all the others... Anyways the only animals I am against killing and eating is cats. I like cats. Cats are the only animal with their very own egyptian god people! We can't kill them Fear the Wrath of Bastet!
---Rise Phobos, Knight of Mars! -Howling Hank Murphy
[ Parent ]
hehehe (none / 0) (#187)
by techwolf on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 05:54:55 PM EST

I didn't think anyone was gonna bust THAT one out. I still like RA and osiris better tho, hell I have a necklace with the symbol of Ra. Ra is cool. but did oyu know that cats will eat the dead if they become hungry? dogs will not eat dead people, this has been proven.


"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Thomas Jefferson
[ Parent ]

dead people (none / 0) (#205)
by marc987 on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 08:30:38 PM EST

The way i heard it: most dogs if starving wont eat there dead masters while most cats will...i guess most cats dont ever consider humans as their masters.

(there is this joke: if you shelter and feed a dog he'll think you must be a god, if you shelter and feed a cat he'll think he must be a god.)

[ Parent ]

yes (none / 0) (#166)
by spammacus on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 04:18:30 PM EST

I'm not so fond of Greenpeace because they don't research things thouroughly and I don't like their tactics.  There are plenty of other organizations that are more effective... and more responsible.

To be fair, the cod fishery failed due to many factors, but seals are sure preventing the stocks from recovering.
-- "Asshole, deconstruct thyself." - Mr. Surly
[ Parent ]

Interfering with treaty fishing (4.00 / 1) (#172)
by IHCOYC on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 04:31:42 PM EST

Another thing that turned me off the whole animal rights malarkey was watching TV coverage of a bunch of white suburban protesters attempting to interfere with Native Americans who were attempting to exercise fishing rights they had been given by treaty back in the nineteenth century. They took it upon themselves to do this because they thought the catch was mean to the fish. My God, haven't these white folks taken enough from these people?
--
"Complecti antecessores tuos in spelŠis stygiis Tartari appara," eructavit miles primus.
"Vix dum basiavisti vicarium velocem Mortis," rediit Grignr.
--- Livy
[ Parent ]
Two Words: Dogmeat Smoothie (none / 0) (#145)
by meehawl on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 03:03:11 PM EST

High protein, low carb! All the rage these days I hear...

Dogmeat Smoothie

Mike Rogers www.meehawl.com
My weird take... (4.00 / 1) (#170)
by Mzilikazi on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 04:29:28 PM EST

From what I understand, a lot of the dogs eaten in Korea are strays, as they're cheaper than purchasing farm-raised dogs. Ethically, I don't have a big problem with that, as every society has to figure out some way to deal with stray dogs. Most places they're just killed, but if people want to eat dead stray dogs, be my guest.

For that same reason, I personally wouldn't eat dog. I know what kind of stuff my dog eats when I walk him through urban/suburban areas, and what his idea of a tasty meal is when I'm not looking. I'm sure all sorts of horrid stuff goes on in battery farms and stockyards, but pulling my dog away from the pleasures of a rotten squirrel carcass or another dog's vomit is more than enough to turn me off dog meat for good.

A few points that I felt like putting in other replies but was too lazy to find the right spots:

  • I seem to recall that during some really bad times in Italy in WWII, people resorted to eating cats, yet called them "roof rabbits".

  • My copy of the Larousse Gastronomique at home features a brief section on horse recipes, which is always fun for startling dinner guests. (It's actually quite a handy reference, as I get a lot of game animals from my roommate's father and occasionally need some help figuring out the best way to cook the meat.)

  • Not to bash the French, as I've really got nothing against their culinary practices, but I also remember some trade dispute involving a kind of Provenšal sausage that included donkey meat (Saucisson de Arles? something like that). It, along with a whole range of cheeses made with unpasteurized milk, are illegal to import into the United States.

Cheers,
Mzilikazi

what our food animals eat (4.00 / 1) (#203)
by janra on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 07:49:28 PM EST

Do you like crab? Did you know they eat seagull shit?

A friend once commented, on discovering shrimp on his plate, "aaauugh! There's arthropods in my dinner! Filthy little shit-eating bastards!" I offered to eat all the shrimp from his plate, if he didn't want them. :-)

Seriously, whatever they eat is turned into meat. The exception, of course, is stuff like heavy metals, which stay poisonous even after being absorbed into the body.

I have no problem eating crab, despite their diet. Similarly, I would be interested in trying dog meat.


--
Discuss the art and craft of writing
That's the problem with world domination... Nobody is willing to wait for it anymore, work slowly towards it, drink more and enjoy the ride more.
[ Parent ]
Bottom Feeders (none / 0) (#253)
by Mzilikazi on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 03:00:55 PM EST

Nothing against crab nor any other shellfish. In fact, a biology teacher in high school once introduced a section on arthropods with a bad Jacques Cousteau impression: "Ah, ze lobster... ze cockroach of ze briny deep." He proceeded to do a comparative anatomy analysis of the lobster and cockroach. Great stuff.

My own preference has more to do with the idea of eating something raised in the city (eating trash, breathing car exhaust all day, etc.). For instance, I've got no problem eating quail or dove, but I wouldn't touch a pigeon. I wouldn't mind adding wild dandelion leaves to a salad, but I'm not going to grab them out of a crack in the sidewalk.

It's not 100% logical, but it works for me. :)

Cheers,
Mzilikazi

[ Parent ]

Actually, I agree, sort of (4.00 / 1) (#258)
by janra on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 05:17:40 PM EST

Once, a restaurant in my hometown was shut down because cat carcasses were found in the freezer. When my mother told me about it, I said, "well, if they're strays it could be a problem because they might have diseases; if they're people's pets that's just wrong, but if they're bred for eating, then what's the problem?" My mother told me I was cold-blooded ;-)

I wouldn't eat pigeon - if it was a trapped city pigeon. I would if it were raised for food. I wouldn't eat dog - if it was a stray before being killed. My reasons are less for what it eats and more for concerns about its general health - I don't want to eat a sick animal.


--
Discuss the art and craft of writing
That's the problem with world domination... Nobody is willing to wait for it anymore, work slowly towards it, drink more and enjoy the ride more.
[ Parent ]
Nope (none / 0) (#225)
by KWillets on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 02:55:36 AM EST

I'm not aware of many strays being sold for meat.  The dogs I've seen were farm-raised, from a  special breed.  

[ Parent ]
I've seen a lot of different takes... (none / 0) (#255)
by Mzilikazi on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 03:05:20 PM EST

I'm not an expert on this, but what I've read, both for and against the practice, and from Korean and foreign sources, seems to be all over the map. Among the listed sources of the dogs: strays, farm-raised specific breeds, farm-raised generic mutts, imported strays from India/Vietnam/etc. I'm sure you can probably find examples of all of those, though I have no idea what the most prevalent method is. Simple economics would seem to indicate that the origin of the dog is directly proportional to what you're paying for the meat, but who knows...

Cheers,
Mzilikazi

[ Parent ]

True (none / 0) (#256)
by KWillets on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 03:31:01 PM EST

It's possible that poor people might be eating strays, but I suppose one wouldn't see them in the marketplace.  The Korean animal rights link has some pictures of some regular pet-type breeds being sold for meat, but I suspect they were farm-raised from puppies.  

I believe the current situation is that dogs are an unregulated food source in Korea, so unfortunately there are no standards for their handling, or the quality of the meat.

[ Parent ]

petsorfood.com (4.00 / 2) (#173)
by Greyjack on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 04:32:57 PM EST

An additional related link:  petsorfood.com.

(apologies if this was already posted below.  I looked, but didn't see it)

--
Here is my philosophy: Everything changes (the word "everything" has just changed as the word "change" has: it now means "no change") --Ron Padgett


Is that site for real? (none / 0) (#269)
by Puzzle on Fri Jul 19, 2002 at 10:41:02 AM EST

*Disgusted*.

[ Parent ]
Doesn't bother me (4.00 / 2) (#177)
by tapir on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 04:38:18 PM EST

I'm a vegetarian by personal decision -- I don't feel like I want to kill animals to live if I don't need to.  Should the world economy go to hell and I need to feed myself off my own land I'm probably going to catch fish in the creek and produce my own chicken or grass-fed beef.  I used to hate it when my vegetarian friends harped on me about eating meat,  so I never do it to other people.

If asians want to eat dogs,  that's really up to them.  I don't think it's any different from eating any other animals.  Once I got to know cows,  I found out that cows can be loving and affectionate animals too.  So can pigs.  I love horses,  much more than I like dogs,  but there are people in Europe who like eating horsemeat,  as much as that disgusts Americans.

Over time I've had less and less affection for dogs.  Perhaps I'm like the people in the live-action Disney movies who hate the big slobbering Saint Bernard that loves the children.  But I'm not ashamed of it.  I live in a rural area with no leash law,  and it's not unusal for irresponsible dog owners to have ten dogs running around in the street and lie to the SPCA (about owning the dogs) when they come around to investigate.  One neighbor had this huge red dog that would come to our place from a mile away and stay for weeks -- he wouldn't go home when he got hungry,  he'd just howl.

As much as I don't believe in doing harm to animals,  there are times when I badly want some 1040 or Thallium.  If surplus dogs can provide calories for a hungry world,  I guess that's the way it goes.

cows can be loving (none / 0) (#222)
by obyteme on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 01:14:00 AM EST

Ohhhh yeah Bessie, who's your daddy! You know how I like it baby.


---------------------------------------:-p
To err is human, or I could be wrong.
If you can't poke fun at it, get a sharper wit.


[ Parent ]
Okay. (5.00 / 1) (#189)
by mindstrm on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 06:24:30 PM EST

We eat octopus. Octopi are as smart as dogs.

We kill whales. Whales are as smart as dogs.

Pigs (none / 0) (#196)
by Kintanon on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 07:08:53 PM EST

Pigs are smarter than dogs,  by a good degree, but plenty of people love their plate of bacon in the morning...

Kintanon

[ Parent ]

Yup. (none / 0) (#259)
by mindstrm on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 06:05:43 PM EST

So no joke.. it has nothing to do with intelligence, and everything to do with how you were brought up.

There is nothing fundamentally different about eating pig or dog or horse or cow or octopus or salmon or beatles or spiders or ants.

It's all about what you have been brought up to think of as food.

For that matter...

I think most people would have similar feelings of disgust if they actually went to a slaughterhouse. We say we can't imagine eating dogs, but can you stare ate a baby cow and imagine eating veal? Can you stare at a chicken and imagine eating KFC? IF you can, you should be able to imagine eating a dog.

[ Parent ]

Eating Beatles? (none / 0) (#273)
by Bernie Fsckinner on Fri Jul 19, 2002 at 12:35:03 PM EST

And here I thought the reason Mark David Chapman killed John was confusion over which one was the real John..

[ Parent ]
Long Pig (5.00 / 1) (#207)
by Baldrson on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 08:41:37 PM EST

When the first major terrorist attack on the food supplies hits....

-------- Empty the Cities --------


please eat dogs, exterminate them from this earth (2.85 / 7) (#210)
by parasite on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 09:11:21 PM EST

I admire those who eat dogs, if I could get away with it -- I would probably steal, kill, and eat the neighbor's dogs myself. There is no more horrible creature on this earth -- save possibly snakes. Dogs are disgustering, slobbering pieces of shit that constantly try to kill me. I can't even recall the number of times a dog has tried to kill me: even the littlest of the critters think they can kill me.

Once I was riding my dirt bike down a country road, in 5th gear, some Redneck's psycho fucking dog tries to dive out and attack me right when a car is coming in the other lane -- leaving me no where to go but straight at the bastard. Fortunately I missed hitting and flipping over him by mere inches.

That is just one of the many things -- most of which have happened when I visited asshole's houses where the people own dogs, and the disgusting things try to bite and tackle me for no apparent reason. I HATE dog owners nearly as much as I hate the dogs -- they act offended when they fucking idiotic creature attacks me and I try to defend myself by kicking, throwing, or punching it. What do they expect me to let the fucking thing bit my hand and face like normal dog-loving freaks ? I sure as hell am not going to put up with it. If you are a dog owner, I hope your animal kills you -- you deserve it for letting a hideous beast roam freely around your residence. I will never knowingly visit a dog owner's home again, unfortunately all to often people don't have the decency to warn me.

I get the feeling... (5.00 / 2) (#212)
by m0rzo on Wed Jul 17, 2002 at 09:52:17 PM EST

...that it's not only dogs that dislike you.


My last sig was just plain offensive.
[ Parent ]

Whee Trolls and dogs (none / 0) (#236)
by dvNull on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 07:13:57 AM EST

I shouldnt be feeding trolls but what the hell ..

99% of the time dogs attack people its because of their owners. They make the vicious and easily provocated. I have had dogs in my house since I was around 7 years old and our dogs never even growled at a person unless it was someone who wasnt supposed to be there such as an intruder who broke into the house.

I know many other people who have dogs which have never bit or acted in a threatening manner with anyone. It all depends on how the dog is trained.  And why would dogs want to attack you for no apparent reason ? I think you are either (a) lying or (b) in the habit of irritating dogs to the point of them attacking you.

dvNuLL



If you can see this, then the .sig fell off.
[ Parent ]

fuck dogs (none / 0) (#261)
by parasite on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 09:06:22 PM EST

 >  I shouldnt be feeding trolls but what the hell ..

So I'm a troll automatically because I abhor dogs ? WTF is with that ?

>and our dogs never even growled at a person unless
 >  it was someone who wasnt supposed to be there such as an >intruder who broke into the house.

Well then I guess they're pretty goddamned stupid creatures, seeing as it is their owner who invites me into the home on every single occasion.

>   all depends on how the dog is trained.  And why would dogs
> want to attack you for no apparent reason ? I think
>   you are either (a) lying or (b) in the habit of irritating dogs to
> the point of them attacking you.

Ummm... That is MY question -- I presume it is their nature, and this is why I hate them. I have no fucking interest whatsoever in the creatures, I don't want them near me, crawling on me, barking at me, or even noticing my presence -- but everytime I walk into someone's house who own's one -- the first thing that happens is the goddamn thing starts circling my legs and possibly trying to climb up them, when I try to escape it escalates and tries to "GET ME" and when I couterreact further then the fucking thing tries to kill me. I have no interest in irritating dogs -- like I said I don't want a goddamned thing to do with the creatures, I'd like to see them annihilated from the face of this planet, they do not amuse me in the least. I try to respond passively -- only pulling my limbs away at first, but every act of peace I make towards the fucking creatures only further escalates its malice, and before long I have to use force or allow it to maul my face.


[ Parent ]

Why so angry? (none / 0) (#257)
by MoxFulder on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 03:45:23 PM EST

Clearly something must have happened to you that got you started down the road of hating dogs. Dogs can usually tell when people don't like them and act badly around those people, which probably only worsens your opinion of them. Dogs don't like angry, mean people in general... I imagine you must have difficulty making friends if you automatically loathe anyone who has a dog, wow. Some of us grew up with dogs. We're used to them. We understand how they feel and act and they are our friends. Dog slobber doesn't gross us out. Dogs are actually not such dirty animals in that they can't transmit many diseases to humans. I love dogs and I think they make great companions and pets. I see them as much more emotionally aware than any other kind of animal, and so I'm very very uncomfortable with the idea of eating them.

"If good things lasted forever, would we realize how special they are?"
--Calvin and Hobbes


[ Parent ]
Satire on Australian Culture + 'dog meat vs lamb' (none / 0) (#218)
by DataKid on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 12:23:00 AM EST

I would point ppl to a great tv pilot done by the Australian satirist John Safran, available here. While both pilots are remarkable and distincly "aussie", on the topic of dog meat, look for the title "Master Chef". Funny stuff.

Ah you young Americans (2.41 / 12) (#219)
by Jim Tour on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 12:28:03 AM EST

Oh you atheist/agnostic or at least anti-established-religion, somewhat educated self-satisfied daft energetic sharp cretins. You're all blind to where your moral relativism leads. "All culture is good", indeed. Tell me about it. The only reason you feel ok about your surroundings and the people around you is: almost all of you were born into the Jewish/Christian moral universe and you practice its standards unconsciously even while consciously crapping all over it. You and your veganism, your anti-corporation hysteria, your anti-dogma dogmas and your neuroses over your own hedonism... Here's the point: when you take away God (as nearly all of you have...I'm talking about God the MegaPerson, judging your ass.. not some milk-and-water life-force abstraction like you're always trying to convince yourselves of), then nothing can really be said to be right or wrong. Morality is reduced to opinion. Humanity is reduced to just-the-latest-in-the-primate-line, and one person's view of the Right, the Good, the True can have no objective precedence over anyone else's view. Nor can one culture's view have any objective precedence. Think about that for a little while and you'll see it can only lead to TOTAL CHAOS. You are bringing your children into a world without a shared morality, and human community *requires* shared morality. And a shared morality requires an objective basis. And nothing is objective without The Big Man. You yourselves are lucky. Most of you are still living off the Jewish/Christian standards of behavior you were born to, like vapors in your gas tanks. But it gets more 'n more diluted with each new generation, because it really can't hold up forever when the core Faith is gone. At some point, a generation will come along that simply can't sustain itself. It will be lost in the sea of relativism handed down by YOU, and it will die of its own hand... By the way, eating dogs is Wrong.

Do trolls eat dogs too? (none / 0) (#224)
by acronos on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 02:43:03 AM EST

Humans are moral with or without religion.

I guess I should offer an example even if it is pointless - China.  Are you saying the only good people in China are religious?  Wouldn't be very many good people there.  Yet, they still seem to be upset by the things that upset the rest of us - murder, rape, and pillage.

Morals exist because people are able to envision what it is like to be someone else.  If I don't want to be raped, then I can bet when someone else tells me they don't enjoy it, they might be telling the truth.  The golden rule is an almost universally held belief in pretty much every religion and culture.  Do you think it might be because it makes sense with or without a religion.

There is a species of vampire bat that can only live a few days without blood.  Often, one will not be able to find a victim before it dies.  When this happens the bats will share their own blood.  The bats that don't share are not shared with and inevitably die.  Seems like a good incentive to share to me.  Payback is hell.  Do you think we might have just a little in common with these bats?  Nah, just stupid animals.


[ Parent ]

yeah, "all who disagree with me are trolls&qu (none / 0) (#247)
by Jim Tour on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 11:48:31 AM EST



[ Parent ]
people like you scare me (none / 0) (#241)
by Shren on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 08:38:00 AM EST

Here's the point: when you take away God then nothing can really be said to be right or wrong.

People like you scare me - if you ever lose faith in God, there's nothing to keep you from snapping and killing 50 people with a machine gun.

Dozens of pre-Christian societies managed to have a pretty clear idea of absolute right and wrong. They accomplished it much like you - by focusing on a small portion of reality and ignoring the rest of it.

[ Parent ]

Actually (none / 0) (#243)
by JChen on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 09:15:43 AM EST

I was not born in your Judeo-Christian utopia. I was born in the atheist People's Republic of China. Yet, surprisingly to some, I have still learned that tolerance is paramount to prejudice. Also, I certainly don't believe that the Chinese society is in "TOTAL CHAOS" as you have prophesized. I'm going to hell, eh?

Let us do as we say.
[ Parent ]
no, actually (none / 0) (#248)
by Jim Tour on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 12:01:27 PM EST

I didn't say anything about a Judeo-Christian utopia. The failings of western civilization have been many and horrible. But please don't hold up China as some kind of moral exemplar, because it AIN'T. Never has been and certainly isn't now... Are you going to Hell? I don't think so, because I'm an atheist. But I'm a pretty odd atheist. I truly lament the loss of my faith. Life and culture is vicious and meaningless without a spiritual dimension (and I mean a *real* spiritual dimension, complete with literal afterlife). But that's just the way it is.

[ Parent ]
I don't know that you are so odd (none / 0) (#260)
by acronos on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 06:14:47 PM EST

I am an atheist that regrets the loss of his faith.  I don't think we are that uncommon.  I regret the loss of community more than the loss of morals though, because I don't think my morals have changed much.  I also don't think religion really affects morals that much.  Christians lie, steal, commit adultery, divorce and murder just as much as everyone else.  If morals came from religion then the number of Christians in our jails would be much fewer than their proportion in the society at large.  In fact, there are significantly more Christians in jail in proportion to their representation in the society at large.  Another point, Christians morals have significantly changed over the last 2000 years.  We treat women very differently today.  We don't believe slavery is acceptable.  All of these are new morals.  If Christianity creates morals, where did these come from?  Did the scriptures change?  Did God change his mind?

Christianity didn't create morals.  It is riding on the coat-tails of whatever did.  I am betting that it is human nature combined with human culture that creates morals.  Read my other post where you called me a troll for more evidence.


[ Parent ]

Christians are allowed to eat dogs. (none / 0) (#245)
by IHCOYC on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 10:31:54 AM EST

Don't take my word for it: read Acts, chapter 11 (AV).

There are objective and cross-cultural standards of right and wrong. Which of God's critters are good to eat, and which aren't, isn't one of them.
--
"Complecti antecessores tuos in spelŠis stygiis Tartari appara," eructavit miles primus.
"Vix dum basiavisti vicarium velocem Mortis," rediit Grignr.
--- Livy
[ Parent ]

Why? (none / 0) (#251)
by bigsexyjoe on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 02:22:43 PM EST

Can you explain why eating dog is wrong? I don't believe in moral relativism either, but you seem to be being very dogmatic (HA! HA!) without really codifying or examining what makes something right or wrong. Are you basing this on gut reaction or something else? By the way I was never told that it was wrong to eat dog. I was under the impression that we just didn't do it much.

[ Parent ]
God ... (none / 0) (#272)
by glasnost on Fri Jul 19, 2002 at 12:08:06 PM EST

... is also an opinion.

Don't think so? Prove his existence.

In other words, you were saying "you are all naive because your moral systems are based on opinion / what you should be doing is basing your moral systems on this other, better opinion."

The only benefit of basing morals on "God" is standardization. Some people don't care what the de facto industry standard is, though. It's all just opinion and emotion in the end.

[ Parent ]

i'm repulsed by you eating cows (5.00 / 1) (#220)
by turmeric on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 12:31:11 AM EST

chickens etc. considering how many diseases, from e.coli to salmonella to smallpox, all come from the unneeded domestication and slaughter of these creatures

Dog meat - yum yum (none / 0) (#229)
by YearZero on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 05:16:06 AM EST

I ate dog meat at a dog restaurant in Hanoi in the dog restaurant area of town, just outside actually. it was really nice. at the end of the meal i felt really full and i thought, `hmmm...i'm full of dogs`. still...no problem. its just massive poverty. Outside of China/Korea/Vietnam/Laos the places with the biggest dog eating populations are the US influenced places (ie those with the most desperate poor) like Manila, Caracus, Jakarta, Thailand (various), but especially Manila, lots of shanties with dogs in cages.

Pigs and cows and dogs oh my ... (5.00 / 4) (#238)
by Chakotay on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 07:34:15 AM EST

Muslims and Jews don't eat pigs because they're considered unclean.
Hindus don't eat cows because they're considered holy.
Europeans don't eat cats and dogs because they're considered friends.

Frankly, I don't see what's different.

--
Linux like wigwam. No windows, no gates, Apache inside.

Thos aren't the real reasons. (none / 0) (#262)
by illegalien on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 11:32:09 PM EST

Cows, Pigs, Wars, and Witches: The Riddle of Cultures by Marvin Harris does a good job of giving rational, non-supernatural/dogmatic reasons for why people follow certain traditions. It doesn't really have anything to do with dogs as dinner, but it will make you think about the things that are accepted/rejected in your culture.

[ Parent ]
faking hell (none / 0) (#277)
by eurasian on Fri Jul 19, 2002 at 05:37:20 PM EST

that is one HILARIOUS sig!
two words
  • sah
  • weeeeeeeet


[ Parent ]
One Christian's Perspective (3.50 / 4) (#246)
by SaintPort on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 11:47:31 AM EST

First, I have an emotional repulsion to the thought of eating dogs and cats because I've had pets so dear to me they were 'part of the family.'

I admit that if I had a pet dove or lamb, I might have a similar feeling for them.

But these feelings do not have much to do with what is 'right' or 'wrong' for someone else.

I accept the Bible as the moral foundation.  I realize that many others do not.  My take on the Jewish theology is that only certain animals are fit to eat, and dogs are not among these.  For a Christian, it is commendable to observe this, but not mandatory.  Furthermore, we are advised to 'eat that which is set before us' and we should not make The Law a stumbling block to the Good News.  It is more important that a man accept Christ's salvation, than refrain from eating dog.

It is good that this subject fuels heated debate.  Eventually one has to question the eating of any meat... causing the suffering of any being.

The very purpose of meat eating is accusatory.  It is to remind us of the sin debt.  The first animals 'sacrificed' were killed by God to provide Adam and Eve skins for clothing to 'cover them'.  Then He taught the Jews to have animal sacrifices so the blood of the unblemished animal covered the sins of Israel.  Then Jesus became the final sacrifice, whose blood covers over the sins of the world.

No righteousness is attained by refraining from meat.  To boast that is does diminishes the role of Christ.  


--
Search the Scriptures
Start with some cheap grace...Got Life?

you'd better... (2.66 / 3) (#249)
by Jim Tour on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 01:42:45 PM EST

You'd better hide, boy. They don't like observant Christians here.

[ Parent ]
Too late, the candle is uncovered. (none / 0) (#250)
by SaintPort on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 02:10:20 PM EST

When I get positive feedback I worry.

We are aliens, not of this world, yet called to be salt (preserving) and light (illuminating).

Thanks for the concern,
Peace
<><

--
Search the Scriptures
Start with some cheap grace...Got Life?

[ Parent ]

However (none / 0) (#282)
by JChen on Sat Jul 20, 2002 at 04:16:15 PM EST

"I accept the Bible as the moral foundation."

What about the people who don't? I'm sure they do not want others preaching about morality as much as you wouldn't.

Let us do as we say.
[ Parent ]

bad joke (5.00 / 1) (#254)
by bigsexyjoe on Thu Jul 18, 2002 at 03:05:14 PM EST

A Korean comes to America. He sees a hot dog vendor. The vendor asks him if he would like to buy a hot dog. The Korean says yes. The hot dog is served and the Korean man says "Oh, I should of asked what part."

Not a joke (none / 0) (#267)
by mlepage on Fri Jul 19, 2002 at 10:11:28 AM EST

My wife is Vietnamese. When she first heard of "hot dogs" she assumed they were made of dog. The fact that they aren't is just another example of how hard it is to learn English.

[ Parent ]
Hard to learn English? (none / 0) (#293)
by xtremex on Mon Jul 22, 2002 at 01:56:26 PM EST

You've obviously never tried to learn the Vietnamese tonal system, which has 7 tones. Lam can mean up to 15 things depending on the tone....English may be hard to learn for someone who's native tongue is an Oriental tongue, however, it's not hard for Europeans

[ Parent ]
Vietnamese vs. English (Language) (none / 0) (#296)
by mlepage on Sun Aug 04, 2002 at 03:26:19 AM EST

Yes Vietnamese has tones. It's like overloading a function in a computer language. But the different tone versions of the word are totally different words. And they are always pronounced and spelled the same. English will do the same thing, but really the words are the same. "Affect" is pronounced differently in "He was affected" and "He suffers from low affect." Why? No real reason. Let's not even get into cough/bough or other ways letters suddenly start behaving differently depending which word they are in.

[ Parent ]
Understanding the reasons for our cultural norms (none / 0) (#263)
by illegalien on Fri Jul 19, 2002 at 12:17:34 AM EST

One wouldn't think it was "inherently wrong" - as the author states - if the practial reasons for their/our behaviors were better understood. Good to Eat, by Marvin Harris addresses exactly this issue.

Please (1.66 / 3) (#265)
by Pinball Wizard on Fri Jul 19, 2002 at 01:47:35 AM EST

The dog farm site said it best:

If Koreans are so proud of their dog-eating tradition, why do the butchers hide from cameras, why did the government make it illegal, and why would they even care what foreigners think about it?

We shouldn't accept cultural differences when they are based on cruelty and ignorance. Its common fucking sense: Dogs are pets, not food. And the people who engage in this sort of depravity know it, that's why they take such lengths to hide it.

can you be that stupid? (3.00 / 1) (#274)
by elzubeir on Fri Jul 19, 2002 at 01:57:36 PM EST

Maybe you should re-read the article. Common sense to you is not so common to everyone, so go back and eat your pig feet. Where I'm from, eating pigs is the most repulsive thing you can think of.. but, hey, if Westerners like to eat the filthiest animals out there, go for it.. it's your business..

But quit fucking around, telling people what's a pet and what's food.

[ Parent ]

I know you are, but what am I? (1.00 / 3) (#275)
by Pinball Wizard on Fri Jul 19, 2002 at 02:43:58 PM EST

Maybe you should re-read my post before going into your kneejerk reply. I have every right to eat pigs, as well as to tell people in public forums what is a pet and what is food.

Notice the question I posed, however - you ignored it the first time.

If Koreans are so proud of their dog-eating tradition, why do the butchers hide from cameras, why did the government make it illegal, and why would they even care what foreigners think about it?

Answer the question before calling me stupid the next time. I may eat pigs, but its legal for me to do so, and I don't try to hide the fact from the rest of the world.

[ Parent ]

Because (5.00 / 2) (#281)
by JChen on Sat Jul 20, 2002 at 04:12:12 PM EST

those with the cameras are most often, as the site so obviously shows, troublemaking protestors. How about this:

You operate a hamburger factory. Suddenly, a bunch of Hindus run in and start disrupting operations. They start planting signs and write fiery letters to your congressman, protesting Americans' consumption of beef. They use your factory as an example of just how bad eating beef is. As a result, the rude disruption causes your profits to drop. That's not cool. Same with Mr. Korean Dog Butcher.

Let us do as we say.
[ Parent ]

Dogs = pets. Justify (none / 0) (#294)
by ben1979 on Mon Jul 22, 2002 at 07:56:17 PM EST

Why are dogs pets? On what grounds are you making this statement on? What makes a dog different from, say, a pig?

[ Parent ]
You honestly disgust me (1.00 / 1) (#271)
by Roamerick on Fri Jul 19, 2002 at 11:34:52 AM EST

People like you, bigoted religious scum, make me sick to my stomach.

It's amazing how you contradict yourself by preaching we are all God's creatires, and yet by unconsciously implying that od created us to be sinful, stupid and filthy - and totally lost without his guidance.

If we truly are made in his image, according to you God is one sick sonofabitch.

Some thoughts on cannibalism.... (5.00 / 1) (#276)
by wildgift on Fri Jul 19, 2002 at 04:00:26 PM EST

I eat meat, but am friends with several vegans who don't eat meat for ethical reasons.  They've influenced me to believe, to some degree, that they are correct; I think of eating meat as a transgression against basic moral behavior that says killing animals is not humane.

With this perspective, I contemplated whether I would ever be able to eat human flesh.  After some thought, I realized, "yes" I could, and given the opportunity, would try out human meat.  Why not?  After all, I'm already eating other kinds of meat, and strictly for selfish, aesthetic reasons, and out of habit.

Humans can taste good.  I imagine that a well cooked arm would not be too different from a leg of pork.  Perhaps it could be fried up in human lard until the skin was crispy and the hair all burned off.  Serve it up with a mild salsa with fruit.

Certain parts of the body would be really yummy.  The back, for instance, and the pectorals.  The calf muscle might be good.  You'd have to eat babies and small children rather than full grown adults, for the best flavor.  Like veal, some meats are best eaten young.

Which brings me to aborted fetuses.  There are so many of them, and, i bet with the right preparation -- say, deep fried in hot lard - they would be delicious.  Fetal chickens in the egg are considered a delicacy in some countries, and we delight in eating whole shrimps just alive moments before consumption.  I imagine that a small cooked up fetus would be equally delectible.  The placenta crisp and puffy, with a small fetus encased within, soft and tender, run through with small bits of undeveloped bone.  Why let all those aborted fetuses go to waste, or be turned into propaganda fetishes for anti-choice zealots?  Let's dine!

Veganism, with its clear moral absolutism, has opened up new vistas in my thought as a meat eating atheist.  I feel a new freedom to take my murderous meat eating ways in new directions.  There are so many new and unusual delicacies to savor!

Bon Appetit!


Cheers (none / 0) (#280)
by JChen on Sat Jul 20, 2002 at 04:08:15 PM EST

I don't know whether or not I should agree or barf.

Let us do as we say.
[ Parent ]
dude! (none / 0) (#292)
by 31: on Mon Jul 22, 2002 at 03:46:08 AM EST

you'd take the hair off before cooking... the hair would be bad aromatics, and the meat would end up being bitter.

note to self... no going in a plane flight over the Andes with wildgift :)

-Patrick
[ Parent ]

OMG (none / 0) (#279)
by Tripmine on Sat Jul 20, 2002 at 11:22:46 AM EST

I don't see the problem the majority of the population got.

Cow == Meat
Dog == Meat

Easy abstraction, so what? Dog is more worth than a cow? Bah.

Begging the question (none / 0) (#286)
by torrential on Sun Jul 21, 2002 at 12:13:12 AM EST

I have no problem with dogs as a source of meat per se; certainly it seems no more questionable than (for instance) the slaughter and consumption of pigs -- animals who are of equal intelligence, as I recall, and far closer cousins to human beings to boot!

But the poster of this article needs to answer one exceedingly simple question: is it or is it not true that dogs intended for consumption are intentionally tortured prior to slaughter, whether in the belief that (to quote one particular source) "pain-induced hormones are believed to boost men's virility", or for reasons of taste?

I am unaware of any Western counterexample in which animal torture is regarded as a worthwhile end in and of itself. Obviously many slaughterhouses are massively indifferent to the sufferings of their stock, but that's worlds apart from intentionally torturing them because they taste better that way (or because you think it'll help you keep an erection). The closest I can come up with is the treatment of veal calves, in which, in order to maintain the quality of the meat, they're deliberately given an iron-deficient diet which leaves them weakened and diarrheic their entire lives. (Since I don't eat veal, it's an act in which I don't see myself as complicit.)

It's disingenuous to accuse people of "Fido-ism" when the key issue is something quite different: torture. And I number myself among those who think that intentional torture of animals or human beings is an unequivocal wrong that transcends all cultural boundaries -- particularly when its sole purpose is the pleasure of the consumer, something which, in comparison to the right of an animal to be treated humanely and without intentional cruelty, is so insignificant as to be almost laughable.

makes no difference to the sufferer (4.00 / 2) (#290)
by livus on Sun Jul 21, 2002 at 10:52:23 PM EST

Yes fair enough in an ivory-tower ethical sense, but in reality do you think it makes any difference to a tortured animal whether you're doing it on purpose? Battery hens, broiler chickens with their beaks cut off, pigs in sow crates, dairy cows being forced to breed way too often and give early induced birth, the veal calves you mention - do you really think they feel the pain any less because it's done by lack of caring rather than on purpose? And the criteria "torture in of itself" - where are you drawing the line between direct desired result such as dogs, or in the west, geese being machine force fed to produce foi gras from grossly extended livers, and indirect desired result such as maximum meat production? Why is one so much more virtuous than th eother?

---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

[ Parent ]
OK (none / 0) (#287)
by epepke on Sun Jul 21, 2002 at 02:58:32 AM EST

But here's one I can't figure out. Every five years or so there's a story on public radio about someone making earthworm pie and feeding it to kindergartners, complete with audio clips of the kindergartners who said it tasted good. The first time I heard this was around 1975. So either there's some middle-aged guy going around touting earthworms as a wonder food for decades, or else NPR has a lot of stock recordings they reuse.


The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head.--Terry Pratchett


Umm.... who cares ? (none / 0) (#289)
by pulsipd on Sun Jul 21, 2002 at 08:44:10 PM EST

Pigs are actually proven to be smarter the dogs, but we eat _THEM_ . They just have the bad luck to taste better. Really, who cares who eats what. If you have enough time to rant about what somebody eats, you need a life.

A Vegetarian's Perspective (5.00 / 1) (#291)
by blaaf on Mon Jul 22, 2002 at 12:43:05 AM EST

Actually, I've only been a vegetarian for about a year. Previously, I lived in Taiwan for twelve years, where dog is not a common food but is considered a delicacy winter food. In recent years, in response mostly to international pressure, fear regarding public image, and a few local animal rights groups, the government drew up a plan to ban the eating of dog meat. I don't know if it ever passed--certainly it would never eradicate the practice, but it would certainly eliminate dog meat from the finer restaurants (most of which don't serve it anyway) in the public eye.

Before, I had no special objection to dog meat. I'd never had it myself, but both my parents "accidentally" ate it and loved it until they learned what it was. Unlike what an earlier poster wrote, they both agreed that it was better than pork, but it sickened their American palates to think that they ate "dog." It seems to me though, that this is obviously just a cultural thing. It angers me to think that all this self-righteous pressure comes from countries like America that slaughter inconceivable numbers of pigs, cattle, and chickens in horrible factory conditions.

As a vegetarian, the slaughtering of dogs holds no particular horror to me. I personally am not all that averse to meat, although I don't eat it, I don't condemn those who do. I don't like the meat industry, but that's not my main reason for avoiding meat; and I think it's very jingoistic and insensitive, not to mention hypocritical, for McDonald's-loving Middle American's to go crusading against the pawed cuisine of Koreans and Chinese people they know nothing about. Personally, I doubt a rancher aquainted with the slaughterhouses made infamous in The Jungle would blanche at the sight of a dog being cracked over the head and then gutted and skinned. He just might not like the fact that it was Nellie instead of Bessie.

Discuss or Disgust Over Dog Meat? Yum! | 296 comments (284 topical, 12 editorial, 1 hidden)
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