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A guide to those who would post stories

By fluffy grue in Op-Ed
Sat Mar 22, 2003 at 12:00:21 PM EST
Tags: Kuro5hin.org (all tags)
Kuro5hin.org

Please consider the following:

  • There has been plenty of time to talk about these things, during which time there has been plenty of discussion.
  • There will continue to be plenty of time to talk about these things, so there's no hurry to start yet another new discussion which will be forgotten within hours of its posting.
  • The things you say have, most likely, already been said, and for the most part, those who agree with them will continue to agree with them, and those who disagree with them will continue to disagree.
  • Talking about something on this site will not prevent it from happening or affect the outcome in the slightest.
  • This site thrives on variety. A flood of stories on a single topic tends to make it suffocate.
Have some patience, and use one of the many perfectly-good articles which are already up for discussing your "unique" viewpoint. Thank you.


To clarify, for those who feel that this is an insult to their discourse and fall into the very same trap of what I'm protesting to begin with:

This is not about Iraq, the Shuttle Columbia disaster, injustice in Iran, the Israel-Palestine situation, the kidnapped white girl of the week, the War on Abstract Concepts, or any one thing in the news. It is about all of them, it is about none of them. It is about discussion.

I am not calling for a ban on discussing any topic. I am calling for people to actually look at their discussion, and how they're discussing it. Rapid-fire shouting-at-a-brick-wall is not discussion. All it does is raise the general levels of malice and attrition, and only serves to drive a wedge between people who would otherwise partake in rational discourse.

You have something to say. That's fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and everyone is free to speak it. But look at the greater picture. What you have to say has been said and is being said by so many other people, and there are those who agree, and those who disagree, and even those who haven't made up their mind. Yelling at those who disagree won't change their mind, and yelling at those who agree will only further crystalize the division between "sides."

So, go ahead and keep on discussing things. But think about the bigger picture when you do so, and have some patience. We have all the time in the world; everyone will get a turn.

That is all I ask.

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A guide to those who would post stories | 141 comments (100 topical, 41 editorial, 0 hidden)
-1 (4.10 / 28) (#3)
by turmeric on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 12:12:01 AM EST

this has already been discussed at length. please come up with something original and stop spamming the editing queue

I would like to attend your worship services (4.60 / 5) (#4)
by A Proud American on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 12:16:25 AM EST

Sunday morning, 10am, United Troll Church of Later Day Sllorts?

____________________________
The weak are killed and eaten...


[ Parent ]
But I'm too important! (4.36 / 19) (#5)
by ajf on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 12:43:00 AM EST

My opinion is of tremendous value. Submitting it as the 312th comment to someone else's story simply does not do it justice.

In fact, I may have to write a three part series.

"I have no idea if it is true or not, but given what you read on the Web, it seems to be a valid concern." -jjayson

How great! (4.00 / 2) (#124)
by Viliam Bur on Sat Mar 22, 2003 at 09:39:01 AM EST

And my vote is of tremendous value too!
;-)

Oh, do you really want me to use it three times? Thanx!

[ Parent ]

iraq (3.90 / 11) (#8)
by circletimessquare on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 01:52:22 AM EST

as 100 hundred years from now the war on iraq is all that will matter to people about the lives we lived at this moment in time, a crap flood on stories on iraq is perfectly appropriate.

just get rid of the patently ideological ones (90% of them) and there is nothing wrong with a crap flood of iraq stories at all.

have some historical perspective. if you are sick of hearing about iraq, tune out kuro5hin, but don't expect kuro5hin to tune out the world because you want to tune out the world. kuro5hin is ours, as in everyone in the world's, and iraq matters to everyone. it is not a site that reflects your level of discomfort or boredom. it is democratic. and democratically speaking right now, the world's attention is focused on iraq. get used to it.

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

Media saturation (3.50 / 2) (#11)
by fluffy grue on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 03:32:23 AM EST

It'd be interesting to look at the newsmedia during World War II. I have a hard time believing that the amount of speculation and op-ed editorialization was as high back then as it is now. If it was as high, then my point remains: does anyone remember that or care about that aspect of the world? Probably not, except maybe a news historian.

My point is simply that rehashing the same tired rhetoric over and over again won't change the war at all, and it won't be remembered. Nobody remembers the "insightful" stories about Iraq posted to K5 a week ago. Why should they be remembered in 100 years?
--
"Is a hyperlink" is a hyperlink.
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.

Cats: Nature's entropy generators

[ [ Parent ]

your instincts are correct on personal level only (4.20 / 5) (#12)
by circletimessquare on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 03:59:07 AM EST

your instincts should apply to how much YOU expose yourself to the media, not to what media in general should concern itself with. why are you lecturing the media on how to behave? doesn't it seem sort of like yelling at the ocean? it's not like anyone controls it per se, it is a phenomenon of many overlapping pieces, not one giant beast like the government that you can dictate to, no?

the media is the media is the media. it is not something you control, it is a resource you control your access to.

of course we live in a world where information overload is unlike anything in previous eras in human history. but this will only increase. someday, every one of us may record every second of our daily lives. to what goal? who cares! no one said anyone actually had to look at the stuff.

so relax. chill out. tune out. but don't tell everyone else to tune out. your personal comfort level with media exposure is not necessarily the same as my comfort level. but the difference is i don't try to dictate to you what your media exposure level should be.

i am not accusing you of censorship, but i do think that your impulses seem to trend in that direction.


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

My rhetoric is just as valid (2.75 / 4) (#30)
by fluffy grue on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 01:11:00 PM EST

as those who spew rhetoric on certain current events.

BTW, this guide isn't just about Iraq (it doesn't even mention Iraq). It's also about 9/11, the Columbia shuttle tragedy, and any future events which may cause the same level of shock/horror/terror/spew.
--
"Is a hyperlink" is a hyperlink.
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.

Cats: Nature's entropy generators

[ [ Parent ]

I agree and disagree. (4.33 / 3) (#34)
by aphrael on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 01:37:53 PM EST

On some events - OJ, for example, or Elian Gonzales - the media saturation was so absurd as toconstitute a parody of itself.

September 11, 2001, was different; historians will point to it as an inflection point at which the tenor of international relations, and the tenor of America's conduct in the world, changed. This war is different; circletimessquare is right that in one hundred years, this will be the thing that is remembered (and I suspect that historians will view the two as linked).

It is completely appropriate to talk about the war, here and elsewhere. And it's not just here - I live on the west coast, which is known to be less in tune with events than the east coast; every conversation I heard in the restaurant at lunch yesterday was about the coming war, as were the conversations on the bus last night.

[ Parent ]

media (4.00 / 2) (#37)
by circletimessquare on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 03:18:26 PM EST

simple: if you are sick of the media coverage of ANY event

TURN IT OFF

media is more of a phenomenon than an institution, no one really controls it as the input points are many and varied.

why is your instinct to control the media?

why is your instinct not instead to control your own personal access to it?

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Are you having a seizure? (2.50 / 2) (#105)
by Rogerborg on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 06:33:43 PM EST

Do believe that if you keep asserting that you didn't mention Iraq, that it will make the word magically disappear?

You mentioned Iraq.  Pretending that by disclaiming that as a subject actually makes it so is badly self delusional.  If you weren't talking about Iraq, why did you choose to bring it up?

"Exterminate all rational thought." - W.S. Burroughs
[ Parent ]

No (4.00 / 2) (#112)
by fluffy grue on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 08:26:44 PM EST

At the time that I had posted that comment, I hadn't put in the extended story text, and hadn't mentioned Iraq at the time. Look at the comment IDs. This is the problem with stories which can be edited after-the-fact.

Also, even in the edited version, the only mention of Iraq was to say that this story wasn't about Iraq.

What's with all the sudden ad-hominem attacks, by the way? Asserting that I'm yelling doesn't mean that I'm yelling, and asking about my current medical and psychological status doesn't seem to be anything other than trying to say that I must be a total lunatic or am foaming at the mouth or am otherwise doing things I'm not.


--
"Is a hyperlink" is a hyperlink.
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.

Cats: Nature's entropy generators

[ [ Parent ]

Ad hominem (3.00 / 1) (#116)
by Rogerborg on Sat Mar 22, 2003 at 03:05:48 AM EST

Because you chose to post is as OpEd.  Seems fairly straightforward.  If you'd sectioned it elsewhere and defended it on merit, I would have argued on it as such.

"Exterminate all rational thought." - W.S. Burroughs
[ Parent ]

It was originally "meta" (3.00 / 1) (#117)
by fluffy grue on Sat Mar 22, 2003 at 03:11:02 AM EST

but that seemed wrong.

Anyway, how does a "debate" on my opinion merit an ad hominem attack?
--
"Is a hyperlink" is a hyperlink.
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.

Cats: Nature's entropy generators

[ [ Parent ]

Beats me (2.00 / 1) (#119)
by Rogerborg on Sat Mar 22, 2003 at 03:32:16 AM EST

You dumb broad.

"Exterminate all rational thought." - W.S. Burroughs
[ Parent ]

Actually, now that I remember (4.00 / 1) (#122)
by Rogerborg on Sat Mar 22, 2003 at 07:08:30 AM EST

You started it.

"Exterminate all rational thought." - W.S. Burroughs
[ Parent ]

Um, that was just a joke (none / 0) (#129)
by fluffy grue on Sat Mar 22, 2003 at 12:31:42 PM EST

And on a totally different level than what you've been doing here.
--
"Is a hyperlink" is a hyperlink.
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.

Cats: Nature's entropy generators

[ [ Parent ]

But in a hundred years (none / 0) (#130)
by Rogerborg on Sat Mar 22, 2003 at 03:51:38 PM EST

You'll be dead and I'll be God Emperor, so it'll be moot.

In the meantime, congrats on tricking so many weak willed chumps into agreeing that their opinion is worthless.  There's no emoticon for what I'm feeling.

"Exterminate all rational thought." - W.S. Burroughs
[ Parent ]

Tricking? (none / 0) (#133)
by fluffy grue on Sat Mar 22, 2003 at 07:16:37 PM EST

And I still think you totally miss the point to this article (but so does basically everyone else who's commented). But go ahead and keep on making assertions about things that I have specifically denied if it makes you feel better.
--
"Is a hyperlink" is a hyperlink.
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.

Cats: Nature's entropy generators

[ [ Parent ]

Let's see (none / 0) (#137)
by Rogerborg on Sun Mar 23, 2003 at 04:12:08 AM EST

Either:
  • You are a poor communicator who was unable to explain your point despite the editorial feedback.
  • Or everybody else on K5 has poor comprehension skills.
Occam's razor?

"Exterminate all rational thought." - W.S. Burroughs
[ Parent ]

Third choice: (none / 0) (#138)
by fluffy grue on Sun Mar 23, 2003 at 12:20:20 PM EST

People just skim articles and post knee-jerk reactions.
--
"Is a hyperlink" is a hyperlink.
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.

Cats: Nature's entropy generators

[ [ Parent ]

Good point (none / 0) (#140)
by Rogerborg on Mon Mar 24, 2003 at 07:30:14 AM EST

Wasting your time posting here then, aren't you?

"Exterminate all rational thought." - W.S. Burroughs
[ Parent ]

Look! A parabola! (none / 0) (#141)
by gilrain on Mon Mar 24, 2003 at 11:06:09 PM EST

The line formed by the bullets of these comments forms a rather nice-looking parabola. pretty neat. :)

 -- gilrain

[ Parent ]

actually (3.50 / 4) (#20)
by turmeric on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 07:45:16 AM EST

you can go to a big public library, like at a university, and they will have copies of newspapers back to the 1800s at least. our media now days is relatively calm. in case you dont remember, the spanish american war was --started-- by the media which was owned by william randolph hearst.

[ Parent ]
prove it (4.00 / 1) (#113)
by Trollaxor on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 10:36:35 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Really? (4.00 / 1) (#50)
by ucblockhead on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 05:39:13 PM EST

as 100 hundred years from now the war on iraq is all that will matter to people about the lives we lived at this moment in time
So by that token the only thing that matters to people now about 1898 was the Spanish/American War?
-----------------------
This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
[ Parent ]
Fucking spaniards! (3.50 / 2) (#53)
by Work on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 05:58:49 PM EST

I still say they blew up the Maine. It was a conspiracy between them and Hearst!

Bunch of ne'er-do-wells! The whole lot of them!

[ Parent ]

actually, yes, and you just proved my point... (3.00 / 1) (#57)
by circletimessquare on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 06:35:57 PM EST

off the top of your head right now, in 5 seconds, no googling: tell me something else that happened in 1898 see?

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
I cheated, but (4.00 / 1) (#127)
by daedal on Sat Mar 22, 2003 at 10:14:54 AM EST

In 1898:
  • Otto Von Bismark died.
  • M.C. Escher and C.S. Lewis were born.
All three of which matter today far more than the Spanish-American War.

[ Parent ]
+1, I Disagree Completely! (4.53 / 15) (#16)
by OldCoder on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 05:40:23 AM EST

Among other things, Kuro5hin performs the service of a textual Toasmasters, a way for us to practice the craft of expository writing. And it does so interactively, with mostly constructive criticism, at our own pace, in chunk sizes of our own choosing, for free. Not only do we improve the techniques of self expression, we work out ideas and expose them to the light of day, helping us refine our ideas, and uncover contradictions.

The overall thrust and meaning of the guide posted by fluffy grue (and what's a grue anyway? and how did it get fluffy?) is simply to never post at all. This depressing message flies in the face of millenia of wisdom, which teaches us that the pen is mightier than the sword, and the keyboard is mightier than the pen! The raw exuberance and ego-driven need to be seen and appreciated that is one of the great motors of the public forum, may grate on our nerves from time to time, but under the loving correction of mass criticism and incisive analysis it sublimates to every higher and more functional expressions of concept and value, contributing permanently to the Great Conversation of history.

Write on! you noble informers of fact, you deliverers of morality, you venters of bile, and you excruciatingly ignorant purveyors of infantile reflex — you have nothing to lose but your digital incoherance and your conceptual immaturity, as we march together to the golden goal of a lucid and factual appreciation of the universal understanding.

--
By reading this signature, you have agreed.

I'm the only person here (4.00 / 2) (#18)
by medham on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 07:25:01 AM EST

Who actually knows what "grue" is. Hint: it has something to do with emeralds.

The real 'medham' has userid 6831.
[ Parent ]

I have seen through you (4.71 / 7) (#21)
by martingale on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 08:00:48 AM EST

And you have a twisted little mind full of neurons, all alike.

[ Parent ]
...neurons, all alike (5.00 / 1) (#132)
by OneEyedApe on Sat Mar 22, 2003 at 06:04:49 PM EST

Read between the neurons. It is in the connections that you will find meaning. The substance is in what doesn't really exist.

[ Parent ]
No it doesn't (nt) (3.00 / 1) (#31)
by fluffy grue on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 01:15:29 PM EST



[ Parent ]
It doesn't? (3.00 / 1) (#36)
by medham on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 03:13:49 PM EST

Tell that to Hilary Putnam, you uneducated oaf.

The real 'medham' has userid 6831.
[ Parent ]

I use the Infocom variety (nt) (3.00 / 1) (#44)
by fluffy grue on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 04:45:03 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Lebling and Blanc (3.00 / 1) (#46)
by medham on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 04:55:19 PM EST

Now they were educated men.

The real 'medham' has userid 6831.
[ Parent ]

Hmm (3.00 / 1) (#39)
by sien on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 03:27:58 PM EST

Infocom derived ?

[ Parent ]
Grue? (4.50 / 4) (#70)
by sigwinch on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 02:42:08 AM EST

I'm the only person here who actually knows what "grue" is.
Well don't keep us in the dark!

--
I don't want the world, I just want your half.
[ Parent ]

You are in a maze of twisty little Medham posts... (4.00 / 2) (#85)
by porkchop_d_clown on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 11:12:20 AM EST

all different.


--
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him go off the high dive.


[ Parent ]
Is it dark? (3.00 / 1) (#99)
by borful on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 05:16:46 PM EST

Is something likely to eat me?

[ Parent ]
No, but (4.50 / 2) (#123)
by porkchop_d_clown on Sat Mar 22, 2003 at 08:13:12 AM EST

you better throw your knife at that troll. Quick!


--
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him go off the high dive.


[ Parent ]
I agree and disagree (3.50 / 2) (#48)
by nosilA on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 05:33:15 PM EST

I love the way you put it: a textual version of Toastmasters.  This site, among others, has helped me develop greater interest and skill in writing.  However, when a topic is so thoroughly exhausted that I don't want to hear about it anymore, I will vote the story down, regardless of its merits.  I think the practicing writers better grow by attempting to post on varied topics and not just adding to the heap of junk on the exhausted topic.

-Alison
Vote to Abstain!
[ Parent ]

Wish I saw that more often (4.00 / 1) (#59)
by Politburo on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 08:30:15 PM EST

+1, I Disagree Completely!

[ Parent ]
Reminder (4.00 / 1) (#81)
by Rogerborg on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 10:14:53 AM EST

Don't forgot to put your vote where your mouth is.  At the time of writing, I don't see your name in the "voted for" list.

"Exterminate all rational thought." - W.S. Burroughs
[ Parent ]

Oh, I see (3.00 / 1) (#89)
by OldCoder on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 01:17:54 PM EST

OIC: It's out of the edit Q. Votated +1.

--
By reading this signature, you have agreed.
Copyright © 2003 OldCoder
[ Parent ]
Consider my comment retractated (n/t) (3.00 / 1) (#102)
by Rogerborg on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 06:26:09 PM EST


"Exterminate all rational thought." - W.S. Burroughs
[ Parent ]

Thanks for posting another Iraq story (3.28 / 7) (#17)
by Rogerborg on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 06:51:27 AM EST

I was looking for a forum to discuss the merits of the "decapitation" attack.

I for one applaud it, and the level head (Powell?) in the Bush administration that persuaded ol' "shock and awe" Bush that they don't have to turn Iraq into a smoking crater to kill half a dozen men.

Assassination is distasteful, but killing tens of thousands of conscripts and civilians is utterly abhorent.  If we're going after Hussein, then whoopee, let's go after Hussien.

Dammit, usually I'd insert some sarcastic comment aimed at Bush here, but I can't, because he's doing it right - for now.

"Exterminate all rational thought." - W.S. Burroughs

it's not a war against saddam either (3.60 / 5) (#24)
by vivelame on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 09:18:58 AM EST

Since the US matter-of-factly stated that even if Saddam went to exile, they would invade.
We can be pretty sure that even if the iraqi had bent themselves backward to fulfill every wishes of the Bush Administration, they would have been invaded anyway.
Which means.... that it was INDEED about oil.

--
Jonathan Simon: "When the autopsy of our democracy is performed, it is my belief that media silence will be given as the primary cause of death."
[ Parent ]
They'd still have to go in (4.00 / 2) (#26)
by Cloaked User on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 10:50:18 AM EST

...if Hussein went into exile, to make sure that whoever replaced him wasn't essentially just him by proxy.

--
"What the fuck do you mean 'Are you inspired to come to work'? Of course I'm not 'inspired'. It's a job for God's sake! The money's enough and the work's not so crap that I leave."
[ Parent ]
what you actually mean is (4.33 / 3) (#27)
by vivelame on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 11:23:43 AM EST

"to make sure they choose the guy who replace SH", right?


--
Jonathan Simon: "When the autopsy of our democracy is performed, it is my belief that media silence will be given as the primary cause of death."
[ Parent ]
That's probably an accurate statement. (4.00 / 1) (#32)
by aphrael on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 01:33:51 PM EST

However, even if you find that to be an invalid desire, the desire to make sure that Hussein doesn't pick his successor is reasonable.

In a state which has experienced a repressive government for decades, and in which it is believed that the President's own brother was jailed for suggesting he resign, how can you guarantee that the people can choose their leadership? Any election conducted by the current state apparatus is presumptively invalid.

[ Parent ]

Focus (4.36 / 11) (#25)
by psicE on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 09:51:41 AM EST

You're right, of course. But you know, something just occured to me...

Remember when Rusty premiered the "Focus on..." section? And a few people posted stories about "digital identity" (or whatever said stupid topic was), and then it got ignored? I think the Focus section originally had something to do with advertising. But it's a good idea anyway.

Create a Focus: Iraq section.

All of the Iraq stories that are properly placed in that section can be voted +1 Section, and we don't have to read them. All of the Iraq stories that are not properly placed in that section will be marked as the spam they are, or alternatively voted down.

As a charter member of Iraq Anonymous. . . (4.00 / 2) (#28)
by Pop Top on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 12:58:16 PM EST

I think this is a lovely idea.

Hello everyone. I am Pop Top and I am addicted to Iraq-gape. Those of us who are preoccupied with Iraq, Iran and North Korea can have a designated sand box and we need not trouble the rest of you unless we wish to ignore politics and talk abot other things;

like pancakes or the inevitable turning of all the Sun's hydrogen into helium.

Lets all "Five!" this sucker ASAP

[ Parent ]

Well jeez. (4.00 / 5) (#45)
by kitten on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 04:53:48 PM EST

Create a Focus: Iraq section. All of the Iraq stories that are properly placed in that section can be voted +1 Section,

That would pretty much leave the rest of the site utterly stagnant..
mirrorshades radio - darkwave, synthpop, industrial, futurepop.
[ Parent ]
Riiight (4.00 / 1) (#80)
by Rogerborg on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 10:12:26 AM EST

For about two weeks.  Remember when it was All About Afghanistan?

We're fickle, when if comes down to it.

"Exterminate all rational thought." - W.S. Burroughs
[ Parent ]

Silly hobbit (3.50 / 2) (#78)
by Rogerborg on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 09:06:34 AM EST

The shooting war will be over in days, and it'll be out of the news within weeks.  Read much about Afghanistan recently?

Focus on: The latest US distraction from domestic issues perhaps.

"Exterminate all rational thought." - W.S. Burroughs
[ Parent ]

Then it'll last longer than Digital Identity :D (3.00 / 1) (#91)
by fluffy grue on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 01:39:31 PM EST


--
"Is a hyperlink" is a hyperlink.
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.

Cats: Nature's entropy generators

[ [ Parent ]

Afghanistan (3.00 / 1) (#109)
by aphrael on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 08:08:35 PM EST

Three's been at least one article a day about the 82d airborne going after guys in caves in southern Afghanistan every day this week since Tuesday.

[ Parent ]
Who are you to tell me what to post and comment on (3.37 / 8) (#33)
by mami on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 01:37:33 PM EST

Darn thing, I will comment on post on Iraq and politics as often, as badly, as sadly and as annoying I want and you can do whatever you want with it, but not prevent me from behaving according to your wishes.

Most of you actually react in a way that commenting is an overall worthwhile experience. I wouldn't want to miss it and I certainly don't want hear Mr. MoralMeister Fluffy Grue tell me how often I repeat my war whining.

I really don't see any reason why Iwe should refrain from posting something about the war, I for once am interested in talking about the war and what goes on with it.

This reaction rather amuses me (3.80 / 5) (#38)
by fluffy grue on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 03:19:13 PM EST

I didn't call for a ban on Iraq stories, just for people to consider that there's no need to hurry about any timely, topical subject of discussion.
--
"Is a hyperlink" is a hyperlink.
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.

Cats: Nature's entropy generators

[ [ Parent ]

Most of us post. . . (3.00 / 2) (#42)
by Pop Top on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 04:39:16 PM EST

in the futile pursuit of a vain sense that we are actually doing something meaningful.

And now! You wish to destroy even our illusions of meaningfulness and relevance. [Bastard / Bitch]!! ;-)

Call us names? OK - Mod us down? OK - But destroy the illusion that K5 contributions really mean something?

No! I say Never! No! Nyet! Nada! Nachos!

[ Parent ]

not true (3.75 / 4) (#49)
by mami on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 05:35:00 PM EST

I post because I feel I can NOT do something meaningful. So I vent my frustrations and ask the most inappropriate crowd of people questions for the lack of finding more appropriate ones.

Actually I suffer regularly from feelings of guilt because I ... can't stop commenting ... certainly a sign of a very weak will and definitely a very meaningless way of spending my time. :-(/

[ Parent ]

OK - - I guess this is also true - - en tea (none / 0) (#60)
by Pop Top on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 08:50:06 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Now there I do agree (3.00 / 1) (#106)
by Rogerborg on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 06:35:49 PM EST

So why couldn't you have left this post until next week?

What prompted you to post it today of all days?

"Exterminate all rational thought." - W.S. Burroughs
[ Parent ]

Threshold (4.00 / 1) (#111)
by fluffy grue on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 08:23:48 PM EST

I posted it at the point that my threshold for bad stories on ${TOPIC} had (briefly) flooded the queue. It had nothing to do with the day or the events which transpired the queue flood.

Of course, the queue is no longer being flooded with such stories, and almost all of them have been rejected (except for a few which were actually good, and I think I voted a couple of them up, actually), but it's eventually going to happen again, at which point someone else will probably post another story exactly like mine, just as my story was exactly like so many before it.
--
"Is a hyperlink" is a hyperlink.
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.

Cats: Nature's entropy generators

[ [ Parent ]

Who are you to tell anyone what to consider? (none / 0) (#134)
by nanobug on Sat Mar 22, 2003 at 08:51:26 PM EST

Consider this. Your opinion, while valid in your mind, is totally irrelivant in the 'big picture'. This is a site for discussion of all types. You can skim over what you don't like and find the stimulating discussion you're looking for - or you can whine about it in an OpEd and become what you apparently have a problem with.

[ Parent ]
I'm me (none / 0) (#135)
by fluffy grue on Sat Mar 22, 2003 at 09:13:46 PM EST

And my opinion is just as insignificant as anyone else's. And I never, ever said that people should stop discussing these things. You seem to be reacting to something that you've only assumed I said.
--
"Is a hyperlink" is a hyperlink.
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.

Cats: Nature's entropy generators

[ [ Parent ]

So in summary..... (4.11 / 9) (#35)
by MajorMajor on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 03:12:41 PM EST

...don't bother posting to K5 since everything you say is redundant.

Oh damn, I just did :)

So in summary..... (2.75 / 4) (#97)
by borful on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 05:11:18 PM EST

...don't bother posting to K5 since everything you say is redundant. Oh damn, I just did :)

[ Parent ]
I've bee keeping quiet until now (3.60 / 5) (#51)
by wiredog on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 05:42:28 PM EST

but now I just have to post my 4,000 word essay on <topic_of_the_week> because I have a unique viewpoint that is completely unlike everyone else's unique viewpoint.

Wilford Brimley scares my chickens.
Phil the Canuck

okay then (5.00 / 1) (#66)
by martingale on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 01:38:30 AM EST

Post your essay's md5 hash, and we'll see if your essay is really different. Rusty, get ready to hash all the stories on k5 ;-)

[ Parent ]
I know Rusty has been (3.00 / 1) (#82)
by wiredog on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 10:45:53 AM EST

looking forward to that 4,000 word essay. He mentioned it at the DC K5 meet.

Wilford Brimley scares my chickens.
Phil the Canuck

[ Parent ]
Yep. (3.50 / 2) (#52)
by Work on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 05:56:45 PM EST

All it does is raise the general levels of malice and attrition, and only serves to drive a wedge between people who would otherwise partake in rational discourse.

ive been saying this the whole time i've been on k5. Nice to see someone else feels the same way.

Alas I think most people post and argue for the visceral pleasure of it - hence my frequent mastur - or should that be discussturbation posts whenever something about iraq comes up.

hmm... (2.75 / 4) (#58)
by mister slim on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 07:54:18 PM EST

Comments on this article do seem to contain less yelling, but they demonstrate how few actually read the articles.

I'd like to point out that the diary section is perfect for poorly-reasoned, incoherent, off-topic rants. Of course, if you rant in your diaries I probable won't read them. Diary ranters will benefit from me not seeing how stupid and ignorant you are.

To fluffy grue (?), perhaps you could mention the diaries as a place for "shouting-at-a-brick-wall" style scribblings.

And what is a "grue," anyway? I think I'm clear on the meaning of "fluffy."
__

"Fucking sheep, the lot of you. Yeah, and your little dogs too." -Rogerborg

Ever play Zork? (4.33 / 3) (#62)
by Kasreyn on Thu Mar 20, 2003 at 10:50:16 PM EST

It's an old text-only adventure game for DOS (PC game) made by Infocom. In it, you explore a weird fantasy world with a weird sense of humor. If you are ever in a dark place without a light source, you get the message:

"It is very dark here. You are likely to be eaten by a Grue."

It is never explained what Grues are or where they come from, but they are dangerous, hungry, and only exist in dark places (they fear light). They're known for their ability to finish off adventurers in two or three turns flat. Plus they have lots of teeth (at least, I suppose - or perhaps they're amoebas who absorb their victims! No one knows). But whatever else they are, they're almost certainly NOT fluffy. =P

Anyway, I'm sure my answer has only confused you more. You're welcome. ^_^


-Kasreyn


"Extenuating circumstance to be mentioned on Judgement Day:
We never asked to be born in the first place."

R.I.P. Kurt. You will be missed.
[ Parent ]
Bah. Grues don't exist. (3.50 / 2) (#84)
by porkchop_d_clown on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 11:08:38 AM EST

Why, I've wandered many twisty little passages, all alike, without any illumination and here I am, alive to tell the

CONNECTION LOST

NO CARRIER


--
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him go off the high dive.


[ Parent ]
Oh, great, Fluffy . . . (4.28 / 7) (#64)
by regeya on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 01:00:09 AM EST

. . . now you've given the wankers a new topic to post stories about. :-P

[ yokelpunk | kuro5hin diary ]

Oh! (3.50 / 6) (#65)
by kholmes on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 01:01:09 AM EST

What irony! I agree. But, what irony!

If you treat people as most people treat things and treat things as most people treat people, you might be a Randian.
The diaries... (3.60 / 5) (#68)
by skim123 on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 02:07:31 AM EST

I really like the diaries here because it allows for people to have these rapid-fire discussions, if you will. In fact, I think it would be pretty neat if there was no story queue. Rather, the only way to "post a story" would be to write up a diary. Then, people could vote on the diaries, if they so chose, and the high vote diaries would appear on the Front Page and in the sections, while the remaining diaries, regardless of their vote rank, would appear in the normal diary section.

In essence, I think it would be a neat experiment to turn the diaries into the story queue. This would make kuro5hin like a blog directory with a large democratic user base, where those blog entries deemed most interesting by the population would receive the extra focus from being on the front-page and in the sections and whatnot.

Does anyone know of other community sites that employ this model? Such a site would be to k5 like what k5 is to /.

Money is in some respects like fire; it is a very excellent servant but a terrible master.
PT Barnum


Not hard to do (3.50 / 2) (#92)
by RareHeintz on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 01:41:15 PM EST

Just and idea: If you're really interested in seeing that done, you could always get a copy of Scoop and set it up to do just what you described, and put up your own site. It's not trivial, but it's not that hard.

OK,
- B
--
http://www.bradheintz.com/ - updated kind of daily
[ Parent ]

Don't have the server or time right now... (3.00 / 1) (#93)
by skim123 on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 03:03:12 PM EST

But would be an interesting experiment. Although I think for it to succeed it would need a good dose of traffic.

Money is in some respects like fire; it is a very excellent servant but a terrible master.
PT Barnum


[ Parent ]
Drupal powered sites use a similar model (3.00 / 1) (#94)
by bigbtommy on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 03:04:23 PM EST

Every blog entry on drupal powered sites gets put in to moderation - if it gets voted up, it appears on the homepage, if it gets voted down, it still remains in the diary.

I run it on my site bbCity.co.uk. Another good example is drop.org.
-- bbCity.co.uk - When I see kids, I speed up
[ Parent ]

A guide to those who would post their OpEd (4.06 / 16) (#73)
by Rogerborg on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 04:53:20 AM EST

Please consider the following:
  • There has been plenty of time to give your OpEd.
  • There will continue to be plenty of time to give your OpEd, so there's no hurry to start yet another new discussion which will be forgotten within hours of its posting.
  • The OpEd you gave has, most likely, already been given, and for the most part, those who agree with it will continue to post "Me too", and those who it is aimed at will not bother to read it.
  • Talking about something on this site will not prevent it from being talked about on this site.
  • This site thrives on variety. A flood of stories on your OpEd tends to make it suffocate.
Have some patience, and use one of the many perfectly-good articles which are already up for discussing your "unique" OpEd. Thank you.

To clarify, for those who feel that this is an insult to their OpEd and fall into the very same trap of what I'm protesting to begin with (of foolishly thinking that their opinion matters nearly as much as mine):

 This is not about anyone being a crazed egotistical feminazi who is determined to see her "unique" OpEd on reasoned debate posted on the front page despite it not generating any reasoned debate.  I did not say that - as I'll assert repeatedly if you dare to suggest that I did -  and this is not about that.  It is about agreeing with my OpEd and not posting your own.

 I am not calling for a ban on posting your OpEd, which demonstrates unequivocably how nice and reasonable I am, even though I have absolutely zero chance of having such a ban enacted, and so had no reason for mentioning it. I am calling for people to actually look at their OpEd, and see if they're suggesting that people do as they say and not as they do. Rapid-fire hurling-OpEd-at-a-brick-wall is not discussion, unless it's my OpEd. All it does is raise the general levels of irony and hypocrisy, and only serves to drive a wedge between people who would otherwise partake in rational discourse, which does not, axiomatically, including anyone posting a contentless OpEd about why we shouldn't simply post contentless OpEds.

 You have something to OpEd. That's fine. Everyone (by which I mean me) is entitled to their OpEd, and everyone is free to post it, which on the face of it appears to contradict everything that I've just said. But look at the greater picture, and remember, the "greater picture" gambit is not just a jaded and overused ploy to sieze the nebulous and unassailable moral high ground, it's a real and concrete position which is so obvious that I won't bother to define it. What you have to OpEd has been said and is being said by so many other people - and note that I'm repeating myself in my own OpEd, as though to make the point - and there are those who agree, and those who disagree, and even those who haven't made up their mind, and of course those who most need to do what I say, who are the very people who won't read this. Yelling at those who disagree won't change their mind, and yelling at those who agree will only further crystalize the division between "sides."  And if you're not on my side, remember that your OpEd isn't worth polluting the queue with.

 So, go ahead and keep on discussing things, even though I've told you not to. But think about the bigger picture - whatever that is - when you do so, and, unlike me, have some patience. We have all the time in the world; everyone will get a turn.  

 And I've just had my turn, so I'm afraid that now you have to wait a while to have yours.

 That is all I OpEd.

"Exterminate all rational thought." - W.S. Burroughs

Voting policy (3.33 / 3) (#77)
by evilpenguin on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 08:27:21 AM EST

I encourage all K5 users to adopt a voting policy.

Usually, an automatic +1 would outweigh a -1 (in all cases except the obvious combination of fiction and technology: bad sci-fi). For example, a tumeric rant about Iraq would get +1FP. A detailed article on the technology behind our latest things that go boom in Iraq may squeak by with a +1 section. The rest is a gray area.
--
# nohup cat /dev/dsp > /dev/hda & killall -9 getty
Thanks! (4.50 / 2) (#79)
by dark on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 09:25:19 AM EST

I adopted your idea of a voting policy, and my K5 queue run is so much more efficient now that I don't have to bother with actually reading the articles. A significant improvement! I'm amazed I didn't think of it before.

[ Parent ]
My voting policy (5.00 / 2) (#108)
by godix on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 07:54:49 PM EST

Sarcastic comments that also make a good point automatically get 5. Enjoy.


Love - A temporary insanity curable by marriage.
- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
[ Parent ]
Wow! (none / 0) (#136)
by izogi on Sun Mar 23, 2003 at 01:23:12 AM EST

All we need is a tool (possibly from an external site) that can log in and vote for us all automatically based on pre-defined rules.


- izogi


[ Parent ]
-1. Obvious Troll. (3.36 / 11) (#83)
by porkchop_d_clown on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 11:04:25 AM EST

Who the !@#$%#@$ do you think you are, appealing to people's patience and reasonableness?

I mean, on slashdot, maybe that would work. But K5???


--
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him go off the high dive.


+1, Funny (n/t) (4.50 / 2) (#100)
by anno1602 on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 05:55:05 PM EST


--
"Where you stand on an issue depends on where you sit." - Murphy
[ Parent ]
How to get your story posted on Kuro5hin (3.58 / 12) (#95)
by duffbeer703 on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 03:22:04 PM EST

1. Be against any war. Bonus points if you can get a jab in against Dick Cheney, Rumsfeld and the 2000 election.

2. Find a spot that Ari Fleicher missed while shaving in the morning 30 minutes and 17 seconds into some obscure CSPAN video. Bonus points if you can link Ari to the Pol Pot regime.

3. Write about your experiences in a WTO/World Bank protest. Bonus points if you think the World Bank lost your credit card payment.

"Ari" and "Pol" (4.00 / 3) (#96)
by borful on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 05:06:47 PM EST

both have three letters.

[ Parent ]
That's a good beginning (3.00 / 1) (#125)
by Viliam Bur on Sat Mar 22, 2003 at 09:43:43 AM EST

But you have to write it as a separate story!

[ Parent ]
Heh, that's pretty funny (2.16 / 6) (#101)
by Rogerborg on Fri Mar 21, 2003 at 06:25:10 PM EST

It'd be funnier if you were practicing what you preach, but I suppose that criticising is far easier than contributing.

"Exterminate all rational thought." - W.S. Burroughs
[ Parent ]

It would if I was a troll. (2.60 / 5) (#115)
by duffbeer703 on Sat Mar 22, 2003 at 02:06:55 AM EST

I tried to post a couple of stories, and found that the kneejerk radicals who dominate political discussion suppressed them rather quickly.

[ Parent ]
Sorry, I understand (3.50 / 4) (#120)
by Rogerborg on Sat Mar 22, 2003 at 03:42:32 AM EST

It's society's fault that you're a failure.  We plot against you.

I'm deflating your tyres as I type.

"Exterminate all rational thought." - W.S. Burroughs
[ Parent ]

Failure? (3.00 / 2) (#128)
by duffbeer703 on Sat Mar 22, 2003 at 12:26:05 PM EST

I'm not a failure. I simply haven't posted any stories to Kuro5hin. If you consider that a personal failing, do us all a favor and consult a mental health professional.

[ Parent ]
Right, step outside (1.00 / 1) (#131)
by Rogerborg on Sat Mar 22, 2003 at 04:17:22 PM EST

Nobody disses K5 on my watch.

No... No, wait, I don't care.

But it's strange that you're getting so involved.  Protesting too much, much?

"Exterminate all rational thought." - W.S. Burroughs
[ Parent ]

Heheheh, 1 ratings (2.00 / 2) (#121)
by Rogerborg on Sat Mar 22, 2003 at 03:43:59 AM EST

From zeroes.  Colour me abashed.

"Exterminate all rational thought." - W.S. Burroughs
[ Parent ]

Re: your first four bullet points (1.50 / 2) (#139)
by quartz on Sun Mar 23, 2003 at 01:47:58 PM EST

Good points. Most posters in this thread don't seem to agree with them, but I do, because it's exactly what I think about every time I get the urge to post a tech story to K5. And then it passes.

After all, there's plenty of time to talk about these things, so why hurry? It's not going to affect the outcome of anything anyway. Besides, it's not like I've got anything new to say. If I did, I'd submit it to a peer-reviewed journal, not some stupid weblog.

--
Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke, and fuck 'em even if they can.

A guide to those who would post stories | 141 comments (100 topical, 41 editorial, 0 hidden)
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