let me thank you
i am quite the battle-scarred troll here, and this is a real breath of fresh air
i haven't had an open, honest, level-headed exchange here in awhile, and given my proclivities to hotheadedness and the abundance of equally hotheaded types here, this moderate, thoughtful exchange is much appreciated, and you are the reason for it, not me
so thank you mr badger! your temperament and thoughtfulness and honesty is MUCH appreciated ;-)
now: you are correct on mlk, but i would assert that i am correct on your example of say, einstein, as his membership in organized religion i don't think was very central to his contributions to the world or his world philosophy
secondly, the way you have characterized muslims is more accurate than mine, and i agree with it wholeheartedly, so where i strayed in my depictions, it is a failture of my rhetorical skills, not my analytical ones, and your more levelheadedness is again therefore much appreciated
third, i will take your observations on organized religion where we find common ground and attempt to take you a step in my direction (with respect, as you have shown to me)
The intention was simply to suggest that membership in a church did not necessarily mean one was a mindless zombie... Some of these members may pose serious threats to those around them while others do not.
yes, but i assert that membership in a church pulls you in the direction of mindless zombieness, and where spirituality and goodness still exists within members of said church, it is in spite of, not because of, said church. the catholic church today, for example, with its teachings on married priests, women priests, homosexuality, contraception, abortion, etc., clearly has strayed into ideological territory that is very much intolerant, very much in complete opposition to the tolerant teachings of it's prophet, jesus christ
i will assert to you, and you may refute, that organized religion is a radicalizing phenomenon in today's world, not a moderating phenomenon. so while i agree with you that there are plenty of people who identify themselves as christian, muslim, jewish, etc., who are good, spiritual, tolerant individuals, the teachings of the organization religion they are part of renders them, therefore, as incomplete members. that to be complete members, they must lose some of their tolerance, some of their sense of justice, to lose some of their reason, in order to be fully tue members of the given religion.
for example, if you are in opus dei, the catholic charity work organization, you fill your life with good work... but you also subscribe to intolerant ideological viewpoints. therefore, while there is plenty of good people who are members of organized religion out there, they are incomplete.
my aim is to complete them by allowing for them to continue there good work outside the framework of organized religion. the aim of organized religion is to make them 100% complete subscribers of a creed, which means they must abandon some of their goodness and tolerance. see?
lose organized religion, and you increase your goodness and spirituality. burrow further into organized religion, and you lose goodness and spirituality.
thatis because there exists psychic dissonance between good spiritual people and the teachings of organized religion since every single organized religion has intolerant teachings deeply embedded in their creed.
so my assertion to you is one of spritual growth, of spiritual awakening, of moving from one's spiritual teenage years spent in a church/ temple/ mosque into spiritual adulthood by becoming more cosmopolitan, more individualistic... drawing and synthesizing various teachings form various creeds around the world to arrive at something less zombified, greater than the sum of it's parts.
you can take the teachings of jesus, or mohammad, or abraham, or siddhartha gautama (go to sri lanka for a lesson in buddhist fundamentalism), or guru nanak (sikhism), or aesop even, for chrissake: any prophet of great spiritual wisdom that is the foundation of your beliefs, who has left imprints on spirituality with their humble works and prostate genuflection before the majesty of the universe/ god (same thing).
what i am not proposing is an embracing of baha'i, which is just another layer of organized religion, even though it purports much of what i said here as well
instead i am asserting an abandoning of organized religion completely
so clearly, my path to spirituality is essentially individualitic, so also clearly, my assertion is that true spirituality is found within oneself, not within the confines of the whorehouses of faith: the churches, the temples, the mosques, theplaces where brainwashed sheep of monoculture are forged into large unmoving intolerant, ignorant masses with closed eyes and closed minds, content in their spiritual decadence and decay and ineptitude and inertia.
to me, organized religion is a phenomenon of mankind in his teenage years of civilization: the melding and unification of vast cultural differences into cohesive geopolitical views of faith and spirituality that, at this point in the development of mankind, must be outgrown.
in a global world of jet air travel and the internet, true spirituality involves the individualistic path to spirituality, a meldings of multiple faiths and teachings and epochs, a blossoming of spirituality like mankind has never seen before in his existence! ;-)
the problem is, organized religion is now an impediment to that realization of this great spiritual awakening and vision, and must be destroyed, actively fought
because most surely, it will fight for it's continued existence
but it must go the way of the dinosaurs, in order that mankind can grow in his spirituality, past the intolerant decadent anachronistic limitations of the central teachings of the major organized religions
The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.
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