you do not understand human nature
before you, you see the visceral nature of war and react to it, and you do not see the historical and justifiable (and unjustifiable) reasons that fighting was undertaken
this is either incredibly naive or intellectually dishonest of you
war is an ugly evil thing, but do not consider the fighting, without considering the reasons why people fight
all that means is that you are naive, and that you have a problem with human nature itself, not america
human beings, as long as they have a range of ideological beliefs, and have a passion to take the fight for their ideology to deadly force, will wage war
this is a fact of human nature, not the usa
you apparently insist on holding the usa culpable for the crimes of human nature
so i'll tell you what: i won't justify everything the us has done on the battlefield, because plenty it has done is unjustifiable, if you don't attack everything the us has done on the battlefield, because plenty it has done is entirely justifiable
otherwise, you are just drowning in propaganda, and have lost your grasp on reason
you are way out to sea:
read a police blotter
study tribal societies
it is extremely easy to kill another person in this world... am i happy because of that? no... do i admit it? yes... you don't: does that make you wiser than me? no, just naive
but you apparently are intent on killing the messenger: i am telling you that evil war is unfortunate but sometimes necessary, and you hear from me "god i love war!" why is that?
i see a central point of misunderstanding between two fundamental sides of defining human nature:
that left alone, aggressors will fade away
that left alone, aggressors will be emboldened and be more ambitious
frankly, given my own personal experience in life and from my readings of human history overall, #1 to me is naive about human nature, #2 is more realistic
on a fundamental level of understanding all that i have seen in this world of human behavior, i don't understand a worldview that says malicious men will just fade away if left alone
to me, caring about your fellow being is proactive, and to me, everyone who would leave saddam hussein alone are just inventing excuses to care about no one except themselves
like this: you can't ever justify to me a pov or an ideology in this world that says you care for your fellow human beings by doing nothing
whatever your reason for doing anything in life, to me it is automatically superior than doing nothing, by virtue that it is proof positive that you actually care, however malformed your action smay be in this world, at least you prove you cared
while doing nothing is a proof negative exercise that you care about anyone else in this world except yourself: kinda like trying to find wmds ;-P
and so to me, one idiot doing the wrong thing but proving he cares is worth more to me than 10 million wise cynics who only invent reasons to do nothing, and therefore, prove they don't care about their fellow human beings
a cynic is someone who knows the cost of everything, and the value of nothing
do you let evil thrash about during it's half-life, taking out much innocence and good just because you will not intervene?
or will you challenge it directly, minimizing it's destructive effects on the innocent and the good, and hastening it's departure?
what is the point in not intervening when you are certain something is evil? what can be gained in not challenging evil directly?
to me it is the highest virtue in life- to be embraced, not avoided, the fight against truly evil men and organizations
if all you see before you is suface level visceral suffering, then you do not know what it means to care for your fellow human in this world... caring can be infuriating
but it is better than the emptiness of a soulless uncaring existence
nobody said it was easy, or not messy
it is very easy to criticize those who act
it is very had to actually do something
but it's the only thing that ever mattered
my question for those who see wisdom in the "just leave them the fuck alone" option
how do you expect people to stop caring about other people?
how does your "just leave them the fuck alone" option jive with the tutsis and hutus in rwanda 10 years ago? it is your idea, people who reacted like yout o that killing that supports the death of hundreds of thousands there
i would assert to you that not only is it impossible for you to tell your fellow human being to have no sympathy or empathy for other human beings outside your little petty ethnic or nationalistic enclave, but that in fact caring about the suffering of others, and sacrificing for them, REGARDLESS of what ideology you toil under, is among the highest and most noble purposes one can aspire to in this life
i say this not as an american, but as a human being
you may rage all you want against the us going into iraq, but you cannot move this rock of reason: sometimes, in life, to prove you care, you must fight
to deny this idealism, blindness, naivete
and to suggest that your ability to care for your fellow human beings ends at the borders of your pathetic little country is simply racism and xenophobia at heart
death to nationalistic religions
welcome to the age of pandemocracy
to stand in the way of it shows no wisdom, but simply that you don't care about anyone but yourself
we can view human beings one of two ways: blank slates who mimic what their culture and society tells them is acceptable, or as seething cauldrons of primordial violence and sex that must be tamed and channeled by society and culture into appropriate modes of behavior.
the second depiction of human beings is more accurate
we have within us an innate ability for much evil behavior, and i think you have the opposing view of human nature, the blank slate one, and it's just flat out wrong.
frankly, you are so blind to some extremely basic observations of human nature, i really wonder about you.
you are more likely to murder someone than i ever will
i am aware of my nature, and if i find myself in a situation where i might be capable of taking someone's life, i can flee it
you, in believing you are incapable of killing another human being, will probably run right into that psychological area, and someone will be dead before you snap out of it
you are a very frightening person: you are unaware of your own nature
you genuinely scare me
if you think you will never die in a car accident, you won't wear a seatbelt and you will drive recklessly, increasing the chances you will get killed
if you think you might die in a car accident, you wear your seatbelt and drive cautiously, decreasing the chances you will get killed in a car accident
by thinking you can never kill another human being, you are closer to that reality than i ever will be, for you will take no steps to protect yourself from your own potential for evil
you are a scary spooky person
one of two things is possible for taking your pov:
you are a cold passionless lump of a human being
you have passion, but you don't even understand it's true nature in human psychology, and homan sociology
the wisest man in the world says he doesn't know everything
the most peaceful man in the world admits that he is capable of great evil and murder
that you don't even recognize the potential you have for great sin only makes you cold and dead, or very scray: like a child walking aorund with a loaded gun: you don't even have recognition of what simple horrible experience in your future life can awaken within you as a simple, emotional human being
that's downright scary
you are not wise, you are not peaceful
you are flawed, and dangerous
The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.
[ Parent ]