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[P]
Clubbing them softly

By redqueen in Op-Ed
Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 10:34:52 AM EST
Tags: Focus On... (all tags)
Focus On...

The big wheel has stopped on Canada - and more specifically Newfoundland - the past few months in the celebrity and special interest group game of "who to exploit for attention today." The issue: the annual Seal Hunt, which began in the Gulf of St.Lawrence in March - and will commence in Newfoundland and Labrador this month. Ottawa has set the quota for this year's hunt - 325, 000 harp seals; First Nations groups can have an additional 10,000.


A handful of celebrities are creating a shit storm around the hunt and causing some very bad press for Newfoundland and Canada.

Paul McCartney and Heather Mills paid a visit to Canada a few weeks ago, calling the hunt a "stain on Canada." Brigitte Bardot, who's been protesting the hunt since the 70s, requested to meet with Prime Minister Stephen Harper - the French "sex kitten" was denied however, as Harper replied "it's not in [his] nature to need to have [his] picture taken with celebrities." And now, matters are made worse - Morrissey is not coming to Canada to tour. Bona Drag.

There are others.

From Canadian journalist and political commentator Rex Murphy:

It's quite a list [of celebrities in opposition to the hunt]. Brigitte Bardot, Pierce Brosnan, Richard Dean Anderson, Yvette Mimieux, Sean Penn (pre-Baghdad tourism), Loretta Swit and, to bring matters up to date, übertart Paris Hilton, are just a petty fraction of the names that have found the seal hunt their cause du jour. Ms. Hilton, who, in my view, has caused the world more pain than four centuries of the seal harvest, gave the full power of her T-shirt to the crusade against the hunt when she sported this slogan at the Sundance Film Festival: "Club sandwiches, not seals."


It can be argued the Canadian government supports the hunt -- not for purely economic or environmental/sustainability issues - but because it doesn't want to further depress a region that's been challenged economically for years.

In the words of French explorer Jacques Cartier: "I am inclined to regard this land as the one God gave to Cain." It's difficult to grow anything on a rock - just ask my grandparents who've tried to garden in their backyard for the past 50 years. They've had -- maybe -- one good potato.

What the hunt does is supplement the income of several thousand Canadians living in maritime provinces. From the government of Canada web site:

Seals are a significant source of income for some individual sealers and for thousands of families in Eastern Canada at a time of year when other fishing options are limited at best, in many remote, coastal communities. Sealing also creates employment opportunities for buying and processing plants.


Some general socio-economic information about the seal hunt, from this page:

  • The 2005 seal hunt was one of the most profitable in memory. Given extremely favourable market conditions, the landed value of the harp seal hunt exceeded $16.5 million. The average price per pelt received by sealers was approximately $52, an 18% increase over the 2004 average value. In Newfoundland, harp seals ranked 5th in total landed value among all species harvested in 2004, after snow crab, shrimp, lobster, and cod.
  • The value of the seal hunt may appear negligible to affluent Americans and Europeans, but it is tremendously valuable to those individuals who use it as their employment during a time when economic opportunities are limited in many remote, coastal communities.
  • Some sealers have stated that their income from sealing can represent from 25-35 per cent of their total annual income.
  • The top homeports for sealers have unemployment rates that are in excess of 30 per cent higher than the national average.
  • Estimates from DFO and the province of Newfoundland find that between 5,000 and 6,000 individuals derive some income from sealing. This is approximately 1% of the total provincial population, and 2% of the labour force. This is, in fact, a substantial number of individuals.


The government argues the hunt is not detrimental to the seal population, which is estimated at three times what it was in the 1970s; it is considered a sustainable activity based on sound conservation principles .

The Canadian government also argues it's humane. Marine Mammal Regulations ensure appropriate tools are used. Licensing policies attempt to ensure sealers are well trained.

So, Who's Clubbing Whom?

In conjunction with the celebrity efforts mentioned above, groups like the Humane Society of the United States and Harpseals.org have called for a boycott of Canadian seafood, seal products - some have even requested the ban of all exports from Atlantic Canada altogether. According to Mr. McCartney, this ban has already cost Newfoundland more than the seal hunt profits.

In addition to revenue lost by the ban, one wonders how all the bad press will bleed out and affect other industries - like Newfoundland's tourism for one.

To take it one step further, how will all of this trickle down and affect the little Newfoundland kiddies, whose mothers and fathers are sealers, snow crab fishermen and women?

All silliness. And an implicit message Canada does not know how to handle issues regarding animals or the environment on its own. We're just a ravaging pack of baby seal killing idiots - who need to be enlightened by the McCartneys, Paris Hilton, Morrissey and MacGuyver.

Well, I say, fuck off and keep to your own affairs. Brigitte Bardot - focus on France's "troubled" economy. Paul and Heather - ever heard of England's annual fox hunt1? Yes, the same bunch of shits who knighted your ass are ALSO killing small animals - FOR NO REASON -- why aren't you picking on them? Right, because they validate you, while we don't give a shit about your crap music.

Well. I applaud Stephen Harper and the citizens of Canada for not succumbing to the demands of shit wankers and continuing to support the seal hunt.

Keep Clubbin.



1From BBC News: Hunting foxes with dogs was made illegal under the Hunting Act in February [2005], but hounds can be used to follow a scent and to flush out a fox. The fox can then be killed by a bird of prey or shot - if only two dogs are involved.

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Poll
Would you club baby seals to feed your family?
o Yes, definitely 80%
o No way 20%

Votes: 65
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o web site
o page
o sound conservation principles
o BBC News
o Also by redqueen


Display: Sort:
Clubbing them softly | 254 comments (218 topical, 36 editorial, 0 hidden)
'It's difficult to grow anything on a rock' (2.64 / 14) (#1)
by guidoreichstadter on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 12:01:18 AM EST

lichen grows very well on rocks


you are human:
no masters,
no slaves.
but most species (3.00 / 3) (#3)
by guidoreichstadter on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 12:08:54 AM EST

grow too slowly and have negligible nutritional or commercial value to be of any use. Closed system algae farming would be a better investment.


you are human:
no masters,
no slaves.
[ Parent ]
Yes, (none / 0) (#4)
by redqueen on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 12:09:08 AM EST

but you can't eat lichen.

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
you're too quick (none / 0) (#5)
by guidoreichstadter on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 12:10:14 AM EST

look down.


you are human:
no masters,
no slaves.
[ Parent ]
NetHack reference? (3.00 / 3) (#9)
by bamcquern on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 12:17:41 AM EST



[ Parent ]
coincidence (none / 0) (#11)
by guidoreichstadter on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 12:21:38 AM EST

maybe you could explain the possible nethack reference?


you are human:
no masters,
no slaves.
[ Parent ]
Oh, it's nothing. Lichens are very nutritious (3.00 / 3) (#12)
by bamcquern on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 12:24:14 AM EST

in Nethack, I was associated "looking down" with a command in the game. Really would have been an oblique allusion.

[ Parent ]
Note to self: please proofread posts. (none / 0) (#13)
by bamcquern on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 12:25:34 AM EST



[ Parent ]
ok (3.00 / 3) (#15)
by guidoreichstadter on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 12:38:39 AM EST

apparently, free standing or wood lichens have been significant to indigenous diets in some parts of the world. Reindeer lichen is commercially harvested for feeding- reindeer.


you are human:
no masters,
no slaves.
[ Parent ]
says who? (none / 0) (#34)
by Norkakn on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 10:04:19 AM EST

Blue green lichen is a great food if you are lost in the woods in michigan.

[ Parent ]
if it's true that the hunt (2.50 / 4) (#2)
by guidoreichstadter on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 12:04:33 AM EST

has already cost more than the estimated gain of 16 million from bad publicity, maybe the public of the province should consider outlawing it for the public good?


you are human:
no masters,
no slaves.
A smarter option (3.00 / 6) (#21)
by coillte on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 06:00:01 AM EST

would be for Canada to put a bounty on Hilton. It'd be cheaper in the long run. And the publicity would be spectacular. Add in one for Paul, and the general public would be slavering at the mouth for a cull.

No rational human being could oppose it.

"Club Paris, not sandwiches"

Kinda catchy, dontcha think?

_________________
"XVI The Blasted Tower. Here is purification through fire,lightning, flames, war...the eye is the eye of Shiva... the serpent on the right is the symbol of the active will to live,the dove on the left is passive resignation to death"
[ Parent ]

Hmmm (3.00 / 2) (#31)
by khallow on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 09:32:43 AM EST

Has the province actually lost money from the bad publicity? Or gained?

Stating the obvious since 1969.
[ Parent ]

as a fellow canuckian.... (2.50 / 4) (#6)
by Sandwormrum on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 12:13:40 AM EST

I deplore the "clubbing" of seals..it is disgusting to beat any animal to death..
**Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.**
Check your facts (none / 0) (#8)
by redqueen on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 12:16:42 AM EST

They don't "beat them to death."

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
they kill them (none / 0) (#157)
by trane on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 10:30:33 PM EST

You're using economics to justify killing?

[ Parent ]
Are you suggesting (none / 1) (#196)
by debacle on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 10:24:14 PM EST

That profit is not a good reason to kill things?

It tastes sweet.
[ Parent ]
food for survival should be the only motive (none / 0) (#231)
by trane on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 03:21:07 PM EST



[ Parent ]
That's actually an economic justification (none / 0) (#245)
by hackwrench on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 04:50:50 PM EST

The first economic consideration is getting food to survive. It has to be done before moving on to other economic considerations, but it is an economic consideration nontheless, so you'll have to rectify your "You're using economics to justify killing" stance.

[ Parent ]
Pff. (none / 0) (#165)
by Spendocrat on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 05:26:28 AM EST

If you're not a vegetarian, keep quiet.

[ Parent ]
how much would it cost (2.50 / 2) (#7)
by guidoreichstadter on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 12:16:05 AM EST

to euthanize the seals before de-pelting them? Has anyone considered this question?


you are human:
no masters,
no slaves.
Most are killed with guns (none / 0) (#10)
by redqueen on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 12:18:44 AM EST

and put out of misery quite quickly -- if you follow the web sites/links above, you'll find out how the killing is conducted and regulated. I'd pull the links for you but I have to go to bed now.

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
why would they be put out of misery (none / 0) (#14)
by guidoreichstadter on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 12:28:16 AM EST

are they in misery before they are hunted?


you are human:
no masters,
no slaves.
[ Parent ]
they are (none / 0) (#30)
by vorlon on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 09:07:42 AM EST

if theres overpopulation and they're starving. But you hippies like to tune that part out.
Terry Funk is a nullo. Phayd is the doom of Democrats everywhere.
[ Parent ]
Who is overpopulated and miserable? (2.92 / 13) (#53)
by killmepleez on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 12:42:31 PM EST

Is it the seals streaking through the water or is it the thousands of humans whose lives apparently, according to the article, will be destroyed if they are not allowed to dispatch the seals?

Let x = x. A seal exists to live the life of a seal, i.e. to take its chance on the rocks/ice and in the water with all the other seals: vying for food, shelter, and successful mating. As their local system fluctuates, many will not be able to sustain themselves or produce offspring. Every living thing wants desperately to go on living, so the death of every seal is of course sad to each. But it is what seals do -- participating in this natural ebb and flow is their one and only raison d'etre: to fulfill their niche and live the life given to them. But as they have no free choice in the matter - indeed, we see no evidence that they are capable of abstractly imagining that there could be such a thing as "free choice" – how can it be said that their lives consist of “misery”, however nasty, brutish and short it may seem to the Naked Ape? The seal neither needs nor desires a life outside of answering the all-consuming instinct towards chasing fish, mating in the snow, and fleeing the polar bear and killer whale. The danger and uncertainty inherent in this pursuit is not misery, it is life.

And what of the Naked Ape? Whence his misery? Unlike the seal, the hu-man has a theoretically infinite variety of nesting, feeding and breeding options open to him. In fact, his very ability to choose and construct his own habitats and niches to suit any environment is what sets him apart from all other creatures yet known. And still, in all places and in all time periods, everywhere we find Man we find him commonly in what he, himself, identifies as piteous misery. In some lands he is miserable because he cannot muster enough food to continue his body. In other lands he is miserable because the food he eats will not leave his body at all, but floats under his stretched skin in a terrifying and useless mass, earning him the scorn and mockery of his fellow humans. His misery persists in the face of unprecedented privilege and pleasure, mastery and merrymaking, feast and fuck. In aggrandizing himself he has been sundered from the previously undivided, unconsidered life of the animal, and all the king’s horses and all the king’s men cannot put him together again.

Man’s tactic of projecting a veneer of misery onto the pure will to live exhibited by the seal in order that Man may then justify its destruction at his hands is too clever by half, for in the attempt he betrays rather more than intended about his own feelings of danger, uncertainty, and displacement.

__
"I instantly realized that everything in my life that I thought was unfixable was totally fixable - except for having just jumped."
--from "J
[ Parent ]
I liked this very much. +1FP (2.33 / 3) (#16)
by givemegmail111 on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 01:29:34 AM EST

Is seal meat any good? In the wikipedia article about seal clubbing it said there wasn't much of a market for it, but I'm curious if that's because it's not good meat or if it's because of the "OMG! Baby seal meat! Boycott!" factor. Good work.

--
McDonalds: i'm lovin' it
Start your day tastefully with a Sausage, Egg & Cheese McGriddle, only at McDonalds.
Rusty fix my sig, dammit!
They do eat the meat (none / 0) (#193)
by DrToast on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 09:02:52 PM EST

but I'm not sure how good it is.

[ Parent ]
Good article (2.00 / 5) (#17)
by zenador on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 03:56:31 AM EST

As a fellow Canadian I am also tired of hearing about this. Especially from people as rich as sir Paul. I'm sure he understands what it's like to eek out a living in Newfoundland.

I personally have no problem with unemployed fishermen hunting seals to support their families.

Its a one sided argument (2.25 / 4) (#19)
by coillte on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 04:44:32 AM EST

you present. But I like it. Seal clubbing doesn't often get good press. And frankly, when correctly executed, its no more inhumane than any well licensed abbatoir.

I'd suggest perhaps adding in a brief description of whats best culling practice, and perhaps mentioning the uses the carcass is put to.

Otherwise, hell, I'm voting this up, and looking foward to picking off the vegetarians as they storm the ramparts.

_________________
"XVI The Blasted Tower. Here is purification through fire,lightning, flames, war...the eye is the eye of Shiva... the serpent on the right is the symbol of the active will to live,the dove on the left is passive resignation to death"

Fox hunting is already banned in pUKe (2.25 / 4) (#20)
by A Bore on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 04:56:03 AM EST

Still goes on, but there is now a law against it.

I love it. (2.58 / 17) (#22)
by Kasreyn on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 07:47:14 AM EST

Disclaimer: I consider myself a liberal, but still, there's nothing more hilarious than this. Bleeding-heart environmentalists versus bleeding-heart armchair anthropologists. "Save the Seals!" "Save the Native Way of Life!" This shit is better than pay-per-view.


"Extenuating circumstance to be mentioned on Judgement Day:
We never asked to be born in the first place."

R.I.P. Kurt. You will be missed.
I agree (2.50 / 2) (#24)
by Kurosawa Nagaya on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 08:00:42 AM EST

It's fucking beautiful.

The reason for this is simple: we're all full of shit ~ circletimessquare
[ Parent ]

The problem is (2.62 / 8) (#26)
by MrHanky on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 08:23:18 AM EST

The bleeding-heart environmentalists know nothing about ecology. They don't understand that seals, when free from predators, multiply like catholics. The result is overpopulation, leading to mass starvation, since the oceans have been over-fished for more than a century. In addition, seals get stuck in fishnets, destroying them and getting killed in the process. If we are to support a huge seal population, we have to stop eating fish.

In short: Rich and famous Hollywood "environmentalists" are a bunch of lying scumbags who use serious issues to promote themselves as caring and understanding people.


"This was great, because it was a bunch of mature players who were able to express themselves and talk politics." Lettuce B-Free, on being a total fucking moron for Ron Paul.
[ Parent ]

Just like Deer and PETA (2.00 / 3) (#28)
by vorlon on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 08:56:39 AM EST

Same exact thing. Or hippies when deprived of a cause, suddenly you just have a bunch of derelict drug addicts.
Terry Funk is a nullo. Phayd is the doom of Democrats everywhere.
[ Parent ]
And the point is? (3.00 / 6) (#38)
by vadim on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 10:34:45 AM EST

Nature is nicely self-regulating.

Sure, in the absence of predators they'll breed like rabbits. That'll make them starve, population will go down to manageable levels. Balance.

Alternatively, predators figure out there's lots of food available, move in and multiply. Now you have a balance of predator and prey, again no problem. We're pretty much the only predator who can easily eradicate entire species, as we're the only one who can ship food from half the planet away if needed.

So there's no problem with what you say in the first part of your post. Now, the second part is simply bizarre. Your logic seems to go along the line that since we overfish, any other potential predator is a threat and it's perfectly fine to eradicate.

From what I've been hearing lately, it seems we're overfishing quite a lot, and the current situation is unsustainable, even without the seals.
--
<@chani> I *cannot* remember names. but I did memorize 214 digits of pi once.
[ Parent ]

No. (2.40 / 5) (#54)
by MrHanky on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 01:01:48 PM EST

I've never said it's fine to eradicate a species. You're either being dishonest or deliberately stupid, which is pretty much the same.

Additionally, there's no guarantee that a predator will move in and create a new balance. Global warming makes life far more difficult for some of the big predators, like polar bears. We may end with a cycle of exponential growth followed by hunger every other few years. Sure, it's a balance of sorts, but with far more suffering than a little seal hunting creates.

And re: overfishing. It's a far worse problem for the oceans than seal or whale hunting, but lacks the cutesy-factor so important for Hollywood hypocrites. Unfortunately, it won't be fixed. It's politically impossible, and no, we can't even blame America for this.


"This was great, because it was a bunch of mature players who were able to express themselves and talk politics." Lettuce B-Free, on being a total fucking moron for Ron Paul.
[ Parent ]

Don't forget the other assholes. (2.66 / 6) (#115)
by Kasreyn on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 04:31:00 AM EST

The ones who apparently feel that no matter what a "native people" (whatever that means, since we all came from fucking Africa anyway) does is A-OK. The Kwakiutls want to club some seals? Bitchin'! The Sudanese have a thing for cutting off their daughters' clitorises? Knock yourselves out!

There's a double standard: when something cruel, barbaric, and backwards is done by white and/or industrialised western people, it's a monstrous crime against Our Mother, Gaia; when it's done by a tribe that still wipe their asses with leaves, it's an Authentic Native Tradition, and should be protected from us cruel modern types. The mind reels... @_@


"Extenuating circumstance to be mentioned on Judgement Day:
We never asked to be born in the first place."

R.I.P. Kurt. You will be missed.
[ Parent ]
There's a difference (3.00 / 4) (#163)
by vadim on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 05:07:00 AM EST

When the "natives" hunt seals for the purpose of getting fur and meat, they're unlikely to cause an extinction, as they don't have a Walmart in the middle of nowhere. Things sort themselves out quite well in that kind of circumstances.

Now the more civilized nations can afford not to give a damn about what goes extinct, as in the worst case it means they'll have to ship stuff from somewhere else. Of course it's not that the natives can't mess up their environment, but they'd quite possibly go extinct if they managed.

There's a double standard: when something cruel, barbaric, and backwards is done by white and/or industrialised western people, it's a monstrous crime against Our Mother, Gaia; when it's done by a tribe that still wipe their asses with leaves, it's an Authentic Native Tradition, and should be protected from us cruel modern types. The mind reels... @_@

It's very simple, there's a difference of scale. When some guy from the tribe that wipe their asses with leaves catches a fish to feed himself, that's the same thing every other animal species does. When some lazy moron throws dynamite into the lake, that's completely different.


--
<@chani> I *cannot* remember names. but I did memorize 214 digits of pi once.
[ Parent ]
HAhahahaha (2.50 / 2) (#194)
by DrToast on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 09:14:55 PM EST

Sorry, but you don't know shit.

The Gorvernment of Canada cares about the environment much, much more than the "Natives" do. There is a constant battle in the Maritimes between the gorvernment and the natives over the environment. The government has very strict quotas on how much can be fished. The natives argue that they should fish as much as they want. The end result is usually the government buys out the quota from white fishermen and gives it to the indians.

Why do you think the natives are so dependent on the environment? Their status as "wards of the federal government" is enshrined in the constitution. They'd kill every fish in the ocean, and it wouldn't make a difference to them. Why should they care? The federal government always gives them more money just because they are status indians.

[ Parent ]

Nature is also very cruel (none / 1) (#195)
by DrToast on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 09:35:10 PM EST

Ever watch a seal be eaten alive by a killer whale? How about starve to death? Or maybe you'd rather they die of disease? Nature will kill you just as quickly as a human will and will be much more cruel about it.

Also the area was overfished in the past, yes, but not anymore. There are very strict quotas on how much can be fished in Atlantic Canada. And they are enforced to the point of firing shots at fishing trawlers.

Now we don't overfish anymore. So now you've got a lot of fishermen out of work. You also have a lot of seals starving to death because of overpopulation. Also, the seals are eating a lot of fish which makes it difficult for the fish population to rise.

The seals need to be culled and the fishermen could use the money. This is a no-brainer, dude.

I suppose you'd prefer to let the seals eat the few remaining fish left and then starve to death. Or maybe that killer whales will come around and eat them alive.

So does animal rights mean the right for animals to starve to death or be eaten alive? Are you actually arguing that the solution to seal overpopulation is to "let em starve"?

[ Parent ]

Ahh, american mentality applied to ecology (2.50 / 2) (#198)
by vadim on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 10:29:30 PM EST

Some news to you: Every living species on the planet that is capable of it has plenty members of it that suffer, die from hunger or are eaten alive. Such is life.

But it's the height of arrogance to presume you know best how everybody else should live. Listening to your argument it's as if you thought that the seals are practically begging to be clubbed so that you can put them out of their misery.

When the whole Iraq mess started I got the impression that Bush expected being received with open arms by the population. Probably still wonders why he wasn't.

You seem to mistake me for somebody else. I don't even care about the seals that much in this particular case, all I'm trying to say that we happen to be completely unfit to perform any kind of regulation, as we're practically immune to the consequences of the changes we cause. IMHO, just letting things sort out by themselves, just like they worked for MILLIONS of years before we decided to stick our noses in it, will work better than whatever we can currently come up with.

Current evidence seems to point we have a remarkably bad record in this regard.
--
<@chani> I *cannot* remember names. but I did memorize 214 digits of pi once.
[ Parent ]

You're right... (2.00 / 2) (#205)
by DrToast on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 07:23:21 AM EST

Every living species on the planet that is capable of it has plenty members of it that suffer, die from hunger or are eaten alive.

This includes human beings too. We will starve if we don't eat anything. So we must fish the sea, or farm the land.

If we stop fishing we have to farm more. that means less space for forests. That means some forest animals have to die.

You seem to have this mentality that humans are "impure" and need to be separated from nature. But that can never happen. Every meal you eat takes a little something away from the environment. We are part of the environment, whether you like it or not. That means we have to take care of the environment.

We killed off the whales. We overfished. Now you think we should just walk away from it and pretend it never happened? We knocked things out of balance, it is now our responsibility to put it back and maintain that balance.

[ Parent ]

I disagree. (none / 1) (#234)
by Kasreyn on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 01:51:07 AM EST

I think walking away is the only thing we *can* do right. Yes, we knocked things out of balance, but if we try to "restore" that balance, I'm sure our efforts will be equally ham-fisted because we're only kidding ourselves that we even know what that balance should be.

Nature is a vastly complicated system and for the sort of meddling you propose, we simply don't grasp enough of the factors. The only course of action that makes sense is to interfere as little as possible, and allow the biosphere the breathing space it needs to restore its own balance. It is a self-correcting system (within limits).


"Extenuating circumstance to be mentioned on Judgement Day:
We never asked to be born in the first place."

R.I.P. Kurt. You will be missed.
[ Parent ]
The "Turbot War" (none / 1) (#224)
by ElMiguel on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 07:44:39 AM EST

There are very strict quotas on how much can be fished in Atlantic Canada. And they are enforced to the point of firing shots at fishing trawlers.

I remember hearing about this. But what was "enforced" during this incident was not compliance with Atlantic Canada fishing quotas, seeing as the incident happened outside Atlantic Canada. What was "enforced" was Canada's self-appointed right to prosecute fishing with illegal nets outside its territory.

Now, I'm all for preservation of the seas, but I can't condone firing shots at a foreign ship in international waters and then kidnapping the crew back to Canada to make a political point. This is pure cowboy mentality and something to be ashamed of.

[ Parent ]

Well... (none / 1) (#233)
by DrToast on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 10:05:32 PM EST

international treaties are only of relevance if someone is willing to enforce them. Spain was ciolating an international agreement by oferfishing the nose and tail of the grand bank. Now Canada could have lodged a formal complaint to the UN, and after a few years in a committee they would tell Spain to stop, then Spain would appeal, etc, etc, until they fish every damn fish out of the ocean.

Yeah, Brian Tobin was grandstanding to the extreme, but I'd prefer a politician show some balls when there is an obvious wrong happening. Canada should do more shit like that.

[ Parent ]

International relationships (3.00 / 2) (#235)
by ElMiguel on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 06:23:24 AM EST

"Spain" wasn't violating any treaty, if anything a Spanish fishing boat was. On the other hand Canada, or at least the Canadian government, deliberately opened fire against a presumably unarmed civilian ship, which hardly seems likely to be in keeping with international law.

Now let's be clear on this point: the government of one country attacked unarmed citizens of a different country, outside the territory of either, to make a point in a purely economic dispute. You know, this is the stuff wars used to be started for. Of course, nowadays international relationships are more civilised, which means you can occasionally get away with being a jerk. But if everybody started behaving like Canada did, the current peaceful climate wouldn't last for very long.

Lack of enforcement of international treaties can be problem, but unilateral, extraterritorial enforcement at gunpoint is much worse. Which country would be a fair judge of its own disputes? Which politician wouldn't be tempted by the great opportunities for demagogic populism this would offer? International vigilantism is not the solution.

[ Parent ]

Okay... (none / 1) (#240)
by Canar on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 02:06:44 PM EST

Propose a more effective way to stop Spain from overfishing in that instance. Then I might listen to your opinion.

Conservation is essential. Overfishing can deplete stocks very rapidly. Few would make the claim that the Spanish trawlers were in the right. In this instance, action to stop overfishing was more important than political wrangling.

[ Parent ]

We'll have to agree to disagree (none / 1) (#241)
by ElMiguel on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 04:02:53 PM EST

The means used to stop overfishing in this incident seem terribly disproportionate to me.

Even if what the trawler was doing was illegal, what the Canadian government did to stop it was wrong on a completely different level. If countries feeling wronged routinely used force to solve their differences, we would be back in the Middle Ages, now with modern weaponry. Not the most desirable scenario, I would say.

As for the details of the case:

I admittedly don't know much about fishing, but I'm surprised that the 200 mile zone is not enough to protect the turbot to the Canadian's government desire. What makes the part of the grand banks outside the 200 mile zone so essential to the turbot population?

I also don't see why Canada couldn't have simply have raised economic sanctions against Spain, the EU or whoever they felt should have stopped the trawlers.

Everything I've read so far about the incident seems to suggest that it was the product of some Canadian politicians' desire to appear "tough" and to be "doing something".

Quick and thoughtless application of force is always going to be popular with a significant part of the public opinion, especially if such force is applied to pesky foreigners who aren't going to get a fair say in national media anyway. I'm not surprised that it apparently worked perfectly in this case for this Brian Tobin character.

By the way, this interesting article is the top result in Google for Turbot War. Apparently the charges against the trawler's owners were dropped and compensation paid to them. Funny eh?

[ Parent ]

I'm not so sure they do it because (none / 1) (#101)
by Lemon Juice on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 11:03:01 PM EST

they are lying or because they are promoting their image. I think they honestly believe that they are doing right.

[ Parent ]
Agreed (none / 1) (#78)
by Krakhan on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 06:04:09 PM EST

I've found over the years that Canadian politics is quite the interesting soap story in itself..  Moreso when I actually when I actually went to a question period session in parliament while I was working in Ottawa. :)
~ Krakhan
[ Parent ]
you should consider the nutritional aspect too (2.33 / 3) (#23)
by boxed on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 07:55:41 AM EST

There's a lot of nutritional deficiencies that are increasing rapidly in modern society because we don't eat enough sea food. This leads to the significant rise in schizofrenia, bipolar disorder and various lapses in immune defences. Fuck economics, that's insignificant in comparison to the humanitarian disaster we're facing with less sea food consumption

Garlic and honey scallops! (none / 0) (#197)
by debacle on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 10:28:20 PM EST

Crab bisque!

Lobster pizza!

Best. Pizza. Topping. Evar!

It tastes sweet.
[ Parent ]

let's not kid ourselves (1.54 / 22) (#25)
by circletimessquare on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 08:20:06 AM EST

it is ok to kill animals if you are going to eat them

and it is also ok to kill animals if you are going to wear them

"you" meaning local cultures

but don't kid yourselves: if the seals are killed so some rich bitch in moscow or new york or tokyo or seoul or shanghai can look like ms. roadkill 2006, then no asshole, the seal hunt is not cool

sorry local canuck: keep bitching about your local culture with a big grin while some asshole slides you the bills under the table for your rich, beatiful, need-to-be-preserved efforts at swinging your arm with a club. right. we see your "concern" for your local culture at work. what is it worth today? $200?

oh yeah, gee, we need to preserve that local custom, it's such a beautiful rich cultural part of the rural drunk frozen canadian asshole culture, my heart wells with anthropological empathy, its like the loss of the mayan civilization

(snicker)

who gives a fuck about the "culture" of rural canadian inbreds?

what is that? watching hockey, drinking molson, then killing yourself on your snowmobile later?

fuck that, i'm supposed to have empathy for that "culture"?

i've been to newfoundland. i'm sorry, i'm not fucking impressed. newfies: you have no culture. you're a bunch of cold drunk stupid white people. penn gillette agrees with me, he's a newfie, and he makes fun of newfies all the time, and he gets angry letters form newfies about his insult ot newfie culture

FUCK NEWFIE CULTURE. I'VE BEEN THERE. THERE IS NO FUCKING CULTURE ON THAT WHOLE FUCKING ISALND

i've also seen atanarjuat, the fast runner. now THEY have a culture. but it's not for the benefit of the inuit that we are having this argument, now are we?

the reality? IT"S NOT ABOUT CULTURE AT ALL. its all so the locals can get their fucking wad cash

yeah, i see the real source of your upswelling of empathy for your "cultural preservation". fucking bullshit

look: clubbing seals is not all that evil. hell, i'll club the fuckers myself. i don't fucking care about seals

what i care about is HATING EVERYONE INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS

but because i:

  1. really, really, hate rich people
  2. hate canadians, especially inbred newfies
  3. hate rural "culture", whatever the fuck that is supposed to be
then i come out against the seal hunt

from the hypocritical asshole whining about "culture" when all he cares about his getting paid for swinging his low-iq arms, to the rich self-centered bitch in some rich city who thinks she looks good in roadkill, i fucking loathe you all

really, please, do not fucking kid yourselves, this whole shitstorm is all for the benefit of some rich asshole wearing roadkill in some city, while the toothless local club swinger gets a wad of bills

based on that, i am against seal clubbing

not for the benefit of the seals, but because i hate everyone involved, from stupid hypcritical clubber to vain ignorant coat consumer

fuck. you. all. no more seals for you assholes


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

my take on this (3.00 / 2) (#41)
by khallow on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 10:50:55 AM EST

You don't strike me as being particularly discerning (euphenism for "having a clue" BTW) when it comes to either hate or culture. But the post is quite fitting for such a story.

Stating the obvious since 1969.
[ Parent ]

please, tell me all about the culture (none / 1) (#69)
by circletimessquare on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 05:07:50 PM EST

of fat white people sitting in the cold and the dark getting drunk and watching tv when not crashing their snowmobiles

i am awaiting my enlightment about the rich culture i am denigrating

please, fill me with shame at my words, lets hear all about this great "culture" i am shitting on

now we crickets chirp...

(snicker)


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Why should culture be "rich"? (none / 1) (#212)
by khallow on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 02:22:58 PM EST

Ok, first what is culture for? My take is that it's an informal set of rules and traditions set up so people can function with other people in the culture without killing each other. I don't know about Newfoundland, but a lot of rural places have a pretty low crime rate and I imagine that Newfoundland overall is the same. The fact that you find this culture boring or worthless doesn't really matter.

Stating the obvious since 1969.
[ Parent ]

there's high culture and low culture (none / 1) (#215)
by circletimessquare on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 07:31:52 PM EST

and there's nothing wrong with nascar and wwf

but "pretty low crime rate"?

what the fuck are you smoking?

big cities are safer nowadays than the country, where everyone has a gun, meth labs in every other trailer home, if they aren't smuggling weed or high on oxycotin

people have an impression of big cities from 1985 new york city: crack, saturday night specials, bernie goetz, punks and graffiti filled subway cars

frankly, your retarded stereotypes of urban versus rural are 20 years behind the times at best, but probably just so much ethnocentric provincial mythology

you need to update your retarded stereotypes friend, you are using lies to support your perceptions of city life versus country life

the truth is that urban crime rates are falling/ have fallen dramatically in 20 years, with so much attention and resources focused on the problem, while rural crime rates are increasing

i grew up on a rural farm in the same house my mom grew up in, nearest neighbor a mile away through a swamp, barn, goats, ponies, chickens, dogs and cats under the front porch, etc.

now i live in midtown manhattan

i feel much safer here

http://www.ncrel.org/sdrs/areas/issues/envrnmnt/drugfree/v1hobbs2.htm

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/sociology/pub/qol/crime_in_north_carolina.html

http://virtual.clemson.edu/groups/ncrj/rural_crime_facts.htm

http://www.ncrel.org/sdrs/areas/issues/envrnmnt/drugfree/v1donner.htm

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

heh (none / 1) (#216)
by khallow on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 08:13:20 PM EST

From the FBI (2002 numbers):
Community Types

Metropolitan Statistical Areas, or MSAs, are those community types made up of a central city or urbanized area of at least 50,000 inhabitants, the county containing that city or area, and any other adjacent suburban counties with close cultural and economic ties to the area. In 2002, an estimated 80 percent of the U.S. population resided in MSAs, where approximately 88.5 percent of the Nation's violent crimes occurred. The estimated offense total of 1,262,359 violent crimes resulted in a rate of 545.6 per 100,000 MSA residents. The cities outside MSAs accounted for 8 percent of the population in 2002, and they accounted for 6.4 percent of the Nation's total violent crimes. The rate of 403.1 offenses per 100,000 inhabitants of those cities was based on an estimated 90,586 violent crimes. Twelve percent of the U.S. population lived in rural counties in 2002, and 5.1 percent of the Nation's total violent crimes occurred in those areas. Rural counties had an estimated 73,380 violent crimes, or a rate of 212.6 violent offenses per 100,000 rural county inhabitants. (Based on Table 2.)

Damn, New York City really did some good work. It was considered one of the safest big cities in the US and is still improving. Still in 2004, that meant 687.4 violent crimes per 100,000 people compared to 465.5 per 100,000 nationwide. That still looks to me to be three times as much violent crime per capita for New York City as compared to the rural US. Manhattan Island probably has less crime per capita, but a factor of three less than the average in New York City? I don't know.

Still, being one of the safest cities in the US and still having a per capita crime three times that of the rural US? I don't know what you're using to support your stereotypes, but mine are supported by numbers.

Stating the obvious since 1969.
[ Parent ]

i said rural is increasing (none / 1) (#219)
by circletimessquare on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 09:06:03 PM EST

while urban is decreasing

give it time ;-P

you can thank your meth labs and your oxycontin addicts for the rrual state of affairs

plus, you're examining crime rate in a vacuum, as if that's all that matters in where you live

i grew up rural

no fucking thanks, i will never live rural again (although, compared to the wasteland that is the suburbs, rural IS superior to that bullshit)

but rural living? you might as well be the walking dead, there's NOTHING to do

and no, i'm sorry, riding your atv drunk does not count as something interesting to do


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

hmmm (none / 1) (#220)
by khallow on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 11:48:48 PM EST

I'll be impressed if New York City can actually do that. I don't think they will, but it's possible especially given (as I understand it) there are urban areas in the world with much lower violent crime rates than the rural US.

Good point. I didn't mean to base my argument solely on crime rates. Your comments about "nothing" to do brings up another point. Having something to do isn't always a selling point for a region.

For me, once I'm museumed out and have seen all the touristy places in NYC (there's a lot there in my experience so it'd take more than a week), there really isn't anything there for me though maybe I'd hang out in one of the university libraries. There's NOTHING to do (insert your walking dead comment here). I hate crowds, traffic (especially NYC taxis), more than a modest amount of socializing, loud music, and most of the stuff that is considered fun in an urban area. There are a few parks, but even Central Park is unworthy. Give me real openness. Hold the people.

But this is just personal opinion. I recognize that there are poor deluded souls that might prefer living in areas I despise. And I feel no need to bash their culture no matter how messed up it is. Instead, I confidently bask in comforting condescension.

Stating the obvious since 1969.
[ Parent ]

i grew up rural to age 18 (none / 0) (#221)
by circletimessquare on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 01:20:02 AM EST

i live now urban

there is no argument you can possibly represent to me that somehow suposes that rural life is superior to urban, ever

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

So you basically hate what you are not. (none / 0) (#47)
by gai goa tse on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 11:58:24 AM EST

Which is OK, by the way. I myself hate filthy fucking Filipinos and the disgusting squalor they live in.

I live in a world of cold steel! And dungeons! And mighty foes!
[ Parent ]

i was born on a rural us farm (none / 0) (#68)
by circletimessquare on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 05:06:05 PM EST

nearest neighbor a mile away through a swamp. same house my mom grew up in. barn, goats, chickens, dogs under the front porch.

so if anything psychological, it's self-loathing

but i'll be sure to communicate your hatred of filipinos to my filipino friends, since it makes you seem smug and superior, even though you don't fucking know jack shit

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

what's really so terrible about seal-fur products? (none / 0) (#100)
by Delirium on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 11:00:07 PM EST

Are you opposed to killing animals in general, or is it just something about seals? Are you opposed to leather products as well?

[ Parent ]
can you fucking read? read what i said fuckwit (1.00 / 3) (#104)
by circletimessquare on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 11:17:13 PM EST

THEN respond

fucking moron

i oppose the seal hunt because I HATE THE PEOPLE INVOLVED. i don't fucking care about the seals. give me a club, i'll wack the fucking seals. fuck the seals!

but more importantly FUCK THE RICH BITCHES WHO WANT TO WEAR ROADKILL, and FUCK THE INBRED HICKS WHO WHINE ABOUT CULTURE BUT REALLY JUST WANT CASH TO BUY ATV'S

THEY are the reason i oppose the seal hunt

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

that's a stupid reason (2.00 / 2) (#109)
by Delirium on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 11:59:53 PM EST

Do you support an authoritarian government banning everything you personally dislike? Perhaps in addition to the seal hunt, it should also ban Lambourginis, wearing a mullet, and listening to indie rock?

[ Parent ]
i'd love that (none / 1) (#110)
by circletimessquare on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 12:35:44 AM EST

sign me up

add to that list assholes who comment on something before they read it


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

no u $ (none / 0) (#112)
by Delirium on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 12:46:49 AM EST



[ Parent ]
after re-reading (none / 1) (#141)
by redqueen on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:52:28 PM EST

I think this is my favourite response ever. too bad I can't sig the whole thing. :(

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
a canadian i can respect (none / 0) (#145)
by circletimessquare on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 07:13:41 PM EST

when attacked by a moronic american, you simply giggle

awesome

i was awaiting the usual canadian-with-a-sitck-on-their-shoulder response when confronted with my american ugliness, as a lot of canadians have a complex about their southern brethren

but not you, good for you

it is upon your attitude that true canadian pride rests

because most canadians, who are not as proud of their country as they should be, are proven to be so when so easily trolled by the likes of me

true canadian pride does not pay an american troll any notice

drats! foiled again!

so much respect to you canuck!

ps: i actually liked newfoundland... i canoed to an island and ate my way through a grove of blueberries until belching full and fell down and napped my way through blueberry fructose diabetic shock. so any place with such a high per capita of free blueberries everywhere and low per capita of people is bliss in my book


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

hahaha (none / 1) (#146)
by redqueen on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 07:19:25 PM EST

you made me laugh again.

I esp. liked the part (in your origianal post) about getting drunk and killing ourselves on snow mobiles. :) My Pop (cdn word for grandfather) owned a gas stn and sold snowmobiles - - the man alone was probably responsible for the deaths of thousands of Newfies.

anyway, I know it's a great place -- and I can also laugh at myself. :)

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
are you a newfie? (none / 0) (#147)
by circletimessquare on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 07:42:07 PM EST

wtf is with those 6 inch long jet black slugs?!


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
Yes and no. (none / 1) (#167)
by redqueen on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 12:25:13 PM EST

Technically yes, I was born there. But parents left shortly after -- and other than several vacations -- haven't spent much time there.

I have never seen those slugs -- where abouts were you on the island when you saw them?

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
i've never seen them anywhere else (none / 0) (#168)
by circletimessquare on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 12:50:35 PM EST

not nova scotia, not quebec, not labrador, not pei. must be unique species to newfoundland. they are the biggest, and the most jet black, and the largest (more than 6 inches) slugs i have ever seen. they were on the potato salad we left out overnight at the campsight in the morning. f***ing gross, and absolutely marvelous, at the same time. the campsite was pretty much in the center of newfoundland


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
Slugs are gross. (none / 1) (#180)
by redqueen on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 12:12:16 AM EST

They are almost as bad as leeches -- but not quite.

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
here we go (none / 0) (#190)
by circletimessquare on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 06:15:16 PM EST

http://www.ideaphore.com/Image_Galleries/2004.07.01.Chance.Cove/index.html

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
question: (none / 1) (#191)
by redqueen on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 08:39:23 PM EST

was that before or after he ate your potato salad?

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
LOL (none / 0) (#192)
by circletimessquare on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 08:59:04 PM EST

not my pics, but by the name "european black slug" i think i'm off on the native to newfoundland part

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
I love it (none / 0) (#246)
by liava on Wed Apr 12, 2006 at 03:38:24 AM EST

As a Newfie, I must say that I really loved that post. Can't say I've ever clubbed a seal, but their flippers taste great. It's sad that I didn't think it was a troll until I noticed your username, but your rant is fairly typical of the less-educated seal-hunt detractors.

what is that? watching hockey, drinking molson, then killing yourself on your snowmobile later?

Sigh. I have a friend who had a cousin who died on a snow mobile a couple of weeks ago. They got lost and went over some thin ice. So is life.

[ Parent ]

No matter what your opinion (1.75 / 4) (#32)
by nebbish on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 09:55:46 AM EST

That it supplements income is not a valid reason for seal culling's continuation - so does stealing, and bear baiting and armed dwarf fights probably would as well.

---------
Kicking someone in the head is like punching them in the foot - Bruce Lee

Culling seals is completely necessary (none / 0) (#199)
by debacle on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 10:34:07 PM EST

Because we've fucked with ecology enough to the point that if we don't, they wont be able to maintain a reasonable population level.

The only solution is to train an elite killing force of orca ninjas who will work for seal brains and can totally flip out and kill shit.

Then we can teach them to kill Newfoundlanders, too. Object-Oriented Murderizing.

Some shit like that.

It tastes sweet.
[ Parent ]

Shouldn't you... (1.60 / 5) (#35)
by mirleid on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 10:05:36 AM EST

...get your facts right before submitting to the queue?

Chickens don't give milk
I'll bite (none / 0) (#184)
by Kinthelt on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 11:33:24 AM EST

Is this a hunt or a cull? Irrelevant. Do harp seals eat Atlantic cod? Irrelevant. Will culling seals help fish stocks recover? Irrelevant. Is the seal population exploding? Do we need a seal cull to keep the herd in check? Irrelevant. Are baby seals killed during the hunt? Aha! Here's the question everybody jumps on. Everybody remembers the staged Greenpeace video from the 80's, and that image comes to mind any time they hear about seal hunts. Fortunately, the FAQ actually answers correctly, that whitecoats are not hunted. But they answer it in a way so make it sound as if 95% of the seals killed are whitecoats (they clear the air later in the paragraph). Is the seal hunt sustainable? This is the question everybody *should* be asking. And historical evidence is pointing towards the affirmative. We've been hunting seals for a very long time now, and their numbers are going up. Is the government's management plan precautionary? Irrelevant. Where does the hunt take place? Irrelevant. How many sealers are there? Irrelevant. When does the hunt start? Irrelevant. What species of seals are hunted? Irrelevant. How are the seals killed? A loaded question. Does it really matter? How come nobody complains when a fish is taken out of the water and slowly suffocated? Or when deer hunting season begins? Who is responsible for the seal hunt? Irrelevant.

[ Parent ]
don't eat intelligence (2.00 / 5) (#36)
by khallow on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 10:13:41 AM EST

Most people find cannabalism abhorent even in cases where it allows someone to survive. And any species that insisted on including man in its diet has long since died out. Man doesn't like anyone or anything eating his kind. My take is that other intelligent life on Earth should be granted a similar curtesy by us when we can afford it. Seals at least for me are sufficiently intelligent that I wouldn't knowingly eat or use products from one except in extreme circumstances.

So killing seals because they are an important part of your diet and/or tools is just fine. Killing them because they provide a significant part of your income. Well, I suppose that's a good excuse. Wearing seal fur as a display of status is reprehensible.

Stating the obvious since 1969.

other intelligent life on Earth (3.00 / 2) (#37)
by wiredog on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 10:33:31 AM EST

What other intelligent life? Seals certainly aren't that bright.

Wilford Brimley scares my chickens.
Phil the Canuck

[ Parent ]
neither are people (nt) (3.00 / 4) (#42)
by khallow on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 10:51:26 AM EST


Stating the obvious since 1969.
[ Parent ]

I don't eat people neither. (none / 0) (#122)
by killmepleez on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 09:37:02 AM EST







psst! your next line is "Yeah... but do you consider a person to be a filthy animal?"



__
"I instantly realized that everything in my life that I thought was unfixable was totally fixable - except for having just jumped."
--from "J
[ Parent ]
thanks, I was drifting there... (none / 1) (#187)
by khallow on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 04:46:16 PM EST

Yeah... but do you consider a person to be a filthy animal?

Stating the obvious since 1969.
[ Parent ]

I wouldn't go so far as to call a person filthy (none / 0) (#206)
by killmepleez on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 10:29:09 AM EST

but they're definitely dirty.

__
"I instantly realized that everything in my life that I thought was unfixable was totally fixable - except for having just jumped."
--from "J
[ Parent ]
s/intelligen[t,ce]/cute/g (none / 1) (#70)
by MrHanky on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 05:12:18 PM EST

Although I agree that killing an animal just for the fur is extremely wasteful (and therefore unethical), I don't think seals display much intelligence outside some susceptibility to crude instrumental conditioning. Their somewhat human-like faces probably makes it easier to project feelings of mutual understanding onto them, even though they can't speak -- in contrast to parrots, which can learn to say a few words, but few people believe they actually understand much.


"This was great, because it was a bunch of mature players who were able to express themselves and talk politics." Lettuce B-Free, on being a total fucking moron for Ron Paul.
[ Parent ]
It's the resemblance to dogs, I think. n (none / 0) (#82)
by livus on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 09:12:10 PM EST



---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

[ Parent ]
cute? (none / 0) (#188)
by khallow on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 04:53:39 PM EST

No I said intelligent not cute. Some octopi are good examples of a non-cute (well to the general human population) animal that is pretty intelligent. Cuteness and intelligence don't correlate that well in human populations, hence, the existence of such terms as "geek" or "nerd".

Stating the obvious since 1969.
[ Parent ]

You are not intelligent life on Earth (none / 0) (#200)
by debacle on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 10:37:30 PM EST

You fucking fuck.

A seal would wear your face over its wrinkled arctic wang in a heartbeat.

It tastes sweet.
[ Parent ]

hmmm (none / 0) (#217)
by khallow on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 08:15:22 PM EST

That's pretty good material. Too bad, trolling pays so little financially.

Stating the obvious since 1969.
[ Parent ]

I love how... (2.33 / 9) (#43)
by killmepleez on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 11:26:57 AM EST

we humans have such a raging hardon for money and the particular combination of safety/power it represents, that the best arguments for protecting or prolonging ancient/aging practices, industries, and business models are those arguments which boil down to "Oi! I'm used to making money this way!"

Maybe it is not the seal population that is in surplus.
Maybe those people living in an area which seems to provide no viable lifestyle alternatives are the ones who are being artificially overprotected because they are so poorly situated to thrive.
Maybe letting those thousands of unemployed and income-dependent people sink or swim on the basis of their fitness to evade their own natural predators (technological advancement, social evolution, and economic change) should be considered a sustainable activity based on sound conservation principles.

__
"I instantly realized that everything in my life that I thought was unfixable was totally fixable - except for having just jumped."
--from "J
If you're such an advocate of sink-or-swim... (3.00 / 3) (#44)
by gai goa tse on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 11:52:50 AM EST

...wouldn't it follow from your hands-off approach that the government should neither assist nor prohibit their activities there, e.g. banning seal hunting?

I live in a world of cold steel! And dungeons! And mighty foes!
[ Parent ]

Yeah... (none / 1) (#49)
by mirleid on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 12:19:16 PM EST

I am sure that such an approach towards Amazonia would also greatly benefit everybody concerned...

Chickens don't give milk
[ Parent ]
lol what (none / 1) (#50)
by gai goa tse on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 12:26:31 PM EST


I live in a world of cold steel! And dungeons! And mighty foes!
[ Parent ]

You heard me...[] (1.50 / 2) (#66)
by mirleid on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 03:23:53 PM EST



Chickens don't give milk
[ Parent ]
Misunderstood assumption (3.00 / 2) (#55)
by killmepleez on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 01:07:16 PM EST

On the contrary, I am not at all advocating the blanket sink-or-swim mentality.
I merely wished to point out how instructive it is to find that those who DO sing the praises of sink-or-swim are so often predators seeking to justify why they simply must (in the absence of any alternative and, as it were, against their own tender will) kill their prey for its own good.
"It seems a shame," the Walrus said,
"To play them such a trick,
After we've brought them out so far,
And made them trot so quick!"
The Carpenter said nothing but
"The butter's spread too thick!"

"I weep for you," the Walrus said:
"I deeply sympathize."
With sobs and tears he sorted out
Those of the largest size,
Holding his pocket-handkerchief
Before his streaming eyes.



__
"I instantly realized that everything in my life that I thought was unfixable was totally fixable - except for having just jumped."
--from "J
[ Parent ]
It is disputed... (3.00 / 5) (#48)
by mirleid on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 12:17:16 PM EST

...that there is a surplus seal population...

The Canadian government's point is that the population now is much larger than it was in 1970, and that is correct. Whether (or not, as the case may be) the current number constitutes a viable population is something else entirely...

Chickens don't give milk
[ Parent ]
Any population that can subsist and grow (none / 0) (#201)
by debacle on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 10:40:35 PM EST

Is a viable population.

It tastes sweet.
[ Parent ]
yet another example (none / 0) (#52)
by vorlon on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 12:42:12 PM EST

of FAIL MORAL EQUIVALENCE:

the newfies be damned, seals grow overpopulated, they die of starvation and disease. What part of this you commies not understand?
Terry Funk is a nullo. Phayd is the doom of Democrats everywhere.
[ Parent ]

SOMEONE THINK OF THE SQUIRRELS (none / 0) (#202)
by debacle on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 10:41:05 PM EST

THE POOR DEARS!

It tastes sweet.
[ Parent ]
Arrogance, Ignorance and Moral Blustering (none / 1) (#171)
by tbannist on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 01:52:25 PM EST

Isn't that what we're doing? Aren't you the one that is telling them: "Sure you can survive this way, but I don't like the fact that you are, so I want you to stop and find some other way to live or die trying." That is heartless. You place the welfare of an animal you think is cute over the welfare of your fellow human beings. So why don't you, who wants to change them, show them a better way to live. Instead of insisting that they live by your rules because you say so.

[ Parent ]
Misunderstandings and Poor Assumptions (none / 0) (#177)
by killmepleez on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 04:54:40 PM EST

I'm hearing quite a bit of anger in the tone of your comment, so I'm not sure what personal feelings are driving your statements, but I recognize that whatever they may be, they are strongly held.

I'm merely raising the question that the same arguments being used to justify eliminating the seals (money and asserted seal overpopulation) could be applied to the people using those arguments. My intent is to examine the article's choice of reasons for its conclusion. Your response attributes to me strong policy statements which I have not made and positions which I have not taken.
The person you think you're arguing with is a product of conditioned expectations for binary oppositional political argumentation, but I am not he.

__
"I instantly realized that everything in my life that I thought was unfixable was totally fixable - except for having just jumped."
--from "J
[ Parent ]
while since I expected reactionary politics on k5 (2.62 / 8) (#51)
by Linux or Mac OS X on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 12:35:00 PM EST

getting them from a 'female' canadien is especially delicious.


"Ugh, my stomach is full of tequila and semen." - LilDebbie


ysb
Next on Fox - Celebrity Seal Hunt (2.44 / 9) (#57)
by xC0000005 on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 01:49:45 PM EST

"I said hit the SEAL over the head, not Britney.  Oh well, no use in wasting a perfectly good skin."

Voice of the Hive - Beekeeping and Bees for those who don't
cry me a river (2.33 / 12) (#62)
by RelliK on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 02:23:05 PM EST

It can be argued the Canadian government supports the hunt -- not for purely economic or environmental/sustainability issues - but because it doesn't want to further depress a region that's been taking it up the ass (so to speak) economically for years.

It's their own damn fault! There was a time when the great banks were so full of fish, the schools would actually slow down the ships! Now there is scarecely anything left, a result of centuries of overfishing. So now the party is over. The greed killed ya!

Prior to the arrival of europeans, the indians had lived on that land for thousands of years, and yet the great banks were still abundant with fish. The europeans have managed to squander all that in mere centuries. So the economic aspects of this do not sway me one bit. If the fishermen cannot make their living in the maritime provinces, they should move somewhere else, and/or go into some other business. They should *not* use this as an excuse to completely destroy what little wildlife that still exists there.

Anyway, back to the topic. I am not opposed to the seal hunt per se, but there should be some *very* strict and heavily enforced quotas. I do not want to see yet another species completely destroyed.

Oh yeah, I'm a Canuck. I believe Rex Murphy is a tool and so is Steven Harper. (I can't believe he got elected!)
---
Under capitalism man exploits man, under communism it's just the opposite.

This Canuck agrees with you!!!! (2.00 / 1) (#63)
by moondancer on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 02:53:12 PM EST


**We are simple and we are free.**United Fools
[ Parent ]
Hey. Bud. (none / 0) (#154)
by sudog on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 09:09:20 PM EST

The population has skyrocketed since the 70s. The quotas are carefully and strictly enforced. There is no danger of those creatures going extinct. There're lots of them.


[ Parent ]
Hey, c'mon now (none / 0) (#228)
by der on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 09:54:45 AM EST

Steven Harper is a compassionate man, always willing to lend you a helping hand. Well, unless you're:
  1. Homosexual
  2. Brown
  3. Not liked by George Bush
  4. A "Liberal" (in both senses) (see point 3)
  5. Afghani (see points 2 and 3)
  6. A francophone
  7. From any province other than Alberta (especially the East, ie Newfoundland)
  8. A health care supporter
  9. Someone who doesn't with Canada to become the 51st state of the USA
  10. ....
Well, pretty much anything other than a white, married, middle-aged Conservative far-right-wing Christian fundamentalist America-loving war mongerer. Other than that - compassionate man.

[ Parent ]
It's the -1 guessing game! (1.09 / 11) (#79)
by Josh Ferien on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 06:36:07 PM EST

Can any of you guess why I'm voting -1 on this article (<-- BIG HINT) ??

Cordially,

Josh Ferien

The J is for Justice!

Because you're an annoying twit? (3.00 / 6) (#99)
by godix on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 10:39:24 PM EST



More CORN!

[ Parent ]
It is the (none / 0) (#106)
by Gruntathon on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 11:28:56 PM EST

-1 Article thing right?

I actually read that diary, so I know what is going on! :)

Does it apply to chicks though?
__________
If they hadn't been such quality beasts (despite being so young) it would have been a nightmare - good self-starting, capable hands are your finest friend. -- Anonymous CEO
[ Parent ]
Weird (2.40 / 10) (#83)
by livus on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 09:31:30 PM EST

the article itself

I know this is op ed but you present the opposing side in such a way that it sounds mysterious - I was left with no sense of why, exactly, anyone would be opposed to your little seal clubbing club.

Now, if you'd claimed to represent their views and then refuted them, it would have made a much stronger argument. As it stands, the rational reader is left thinking "there must be a reason for opposition" ...then, "there must be another side to this" ...and inevitably "Hmm, I wonder what the REAL story is."

Of course, as soon as I bother to look, I see their arguments presented by the opposition, so it's much easier for me to be swayed. (Admittedly, it helps that they also happen to be right and the Seal Murderers are wrong, but the principle stands)

Then, you have some quite unclear passages - and the whole last part seems counterproductive. People who are against seal clubbing are most likely the same people who are against fox hunting, and getting ad hominem on some musos ("shit wankers" wtf) is hardly persuasive to the common reader.

Also "Little Newfoundland kiddies" puts me forcibly in mind of Newfoundland's notorious, chronic problems with kiddie fiddlers /pedos/child abuse which is an unfortunate association.

my opinion

Canada should put all this time, energy, and resources into actually doing something constructive about the messed up sectors of its economy (incl Newfoundland, which has always got a raw deal).

Meanwhile, I must remember to boycott their products. Damn dirty seal killers.

---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

Well, (none / 1) (#84)
by redqueen on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 09:51:30 PM EST

I figured the "opposition" has been covered enough in the press (at least in NA anyway) -- didn't want to give any more attention to it. If you didn't like the way I presented my opinion -- sorry! But again, that's all it is... take it for what it's worth.

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
I'm glad I didn't correct your grammar or typos (none / 1) (#86)
by livus on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 09:56:38 PM EST

or you'd have responded with a perky little "if you didn't like the way I presented my syntax --"

I'd never even heard of this issue.

---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

[ Parent ]

I'm glad (none / 0) (#92)
by redqueen on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 10:05:25 PM EST

you didn't edit the grammar too! :) Seriously though, thanks for reading.

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
It was intriguing (none / 1) (#94)
by livus on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 10:10:13 PM EST

to add Canada to the list of weird animal killing countries. I had no idea.

So you are actually a Newfie, yes? 1/2? I suppose the Army would be a good employment opportunity for Newfies to get off the island. Over-represented in the services, are they? Like American Samoa etc for the USians.

---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

[ Parent ]

Well, (none / 1) (#95)
by redqueen on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 10:12:51 PM EST

you're getting closer there, wise one. I was actually born there -- but my dad joined the air force 6 months after I was born. We've been living all over Canada and the US ever since... well until I settled in Toronto. Most of my parents' family have left the island -- including grandparents.

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
But technically.. (none / 0) (#96)
by redqueen on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 10:14:32 PM EST

I'm 100 per cent Newfie -- mom is 100 per cent Irish -- dad is English.

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
Um (none / 0) (#108)
by redqueen on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 11:44:52 PM EST

Sorry about that -- I didn't actually read your whole comment there the first time. Nfld over-represented in Cdn military? I wouldn't say so, though I don't have the stats. Most of my relatives left to pursue business on the mainland. Many ended up out west (Alberta), and here in TO -- others in the US (California).

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
Redqueen says: Let them eat seals <nt> (3.00 / 2) (#127)
by The Diary Section on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 10:44:50 AM EST


Spend 10 minutes in the company of an American and you end up feeling like a Keats or a Shelley: Thin, brilliant, suave, and desperate for industrial-scale quantities of opium.
[ Parent ]
Quite. Off with her head! n (none / 0) (#156)
by livus on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 10:26:17 PM EST



---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

[ Parent ]
Did this get flushed early (2.50 / 2) (#87)
by livus on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 09:59:24 PM EST

or did you think it was ready?

---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

I was happy with it and submitted. (none / 1) (#88)
by redqueen on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 10:03:05 PM EST

Thanks for your feedback though. :)

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
Ok (none / 1) (#91)
by livus on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 10:05:05 PM EST

our queue seems odd today, so it had me wondering.

---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

[ Parent ]
Yeah, (none / 1) (#93)
by redqueen on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 10:06:02 PM EST

You're right -- it has been acting up.

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
My co-worker has an idea for a nightclub name (2.55 / 9) (#89)
by maynard on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 10:03:11 PM EST

"Club Baby Seals"

Read The Proxies, a short crime thriller.
rofflecopters! n/t (none / 0) (#90)
by redqueen on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 10:04:03 PM EST



Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
bwa ha ha! (none / 0) (#97)
by cibby on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 10:29:15 PM EST

the poor seals!

[ Parent ]
nice (2.00 / 3) (#114)
by janra on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 02:19:40 AM EST

I <3 clubbing baby seals
--
Discuss the art and craft of writing
That's the problem with world domination... Nobody is willing to wait for it anymore, work slowly towards it, drink more and enjoy the ride more.
[ Parent ]
hehe (none / 0) (#119)
by ske on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 08:02:52 AM EST

hehe

[ Parent ]
Sealio (2.50 / 8) (#98)
by cibby on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 10:31:52 PM EST

It's hard to know where to stand on this issue.

Obviously, it's a way of life in the Arctic, and it's ridiculous to come in, say 'Stop that!' then fly away to drink saffron-laced bourbon out of gold tumblers.

But the videos of seal clubbing were too horrific to watch.

I don't mind the hunt, as long as they never hunt like that - ie. skinning the pups alive and leaving them to bleed to death on the ice.

Is (none / 0) (#105)
by Gruntathon on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 11:24:42 PM EST

Saffron laced Bourbon nice?

I have a small container of it sitting in the cupboard and am looking for a good way to use it.
__________
If they hadn't been such quality beasts (despite being so young) it would have been a nightmare - good self-starting, capable hands are your finest friend. -- Anonymous CEO
[ Parent ]
the Tao of seal clubbing. (2.00 / 5) (#124)
by killmepleez on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 09:55:33 AM EST

in several places it is a "way of life" to stone christian converts and behead homosexuals. in other places it is apparently a "way of life" to return asshats to the highest official position in the land.

__
"I instantly realized that everything in my life that I thought was unfixable was totally fixable - except for having just jumped."
--from "J
[ Parent ]
Will you marry me? (1.57 / 7) (#102)
by Lemon Juice on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 11:12:17 PM EST

I want you to have my babies.

If I had a dime... (none / 0) (#103)
by redqueen on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 11:16:31 PM EST

for everytime... Thanks for voting me up babe. ;)

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
I know you don't like kids. (none / 1) (#107)
by Lemon Juice on Mon Apr 03, 2006 at 11:34:17 PM EST

so no babies, you just have to have a bellyfull and mouthfull of my cum.

[ Parent ]
No tact (none / 0) (#242)
by The Real Lord Kano on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 04:27:26 PM EST

You probably can't figure out why you're still a virgin.

[ Parent ]
if you had a dime... (none / 0) (#169)
by kjb on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 01:05:28 PM EST

for evertime..

You'd now have a dime.

--
Now watch this drive.
[ Parent ]

Irony of ironies. (2.28 / 7) (#113)
by Apuleius on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 02:05:24 AM EST

Someone should remind the Europeans and British Islanders on the list that if they hadn't overfished the Grand Banks for decades (thansk to a huge measure of bad faith shown in how they voted in the North Atlantic Fisheries Organization), the Canadians might actually have some fishing to do this time of year instead of the seal hunt.


There is a time and a place for everything, and it's called college. (The South Park chef)
RICHARD DEAN ANDERSON! (1.20 / 5) (#116)
by yaksox on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:51:26 AM EST

I was almost going to +1 it just for the incedental mention of RDA but then you didn't think to weave McGuyver into the editorial section.

And perhaps more pertinently, the last bits were a bit tacky - you could've made more of a stab at this how celebs do this kind of thing etc.  ANd it behooves yo not to swear in this instance.

Maybe someone else already made these points - I'm too lazy to read all those comments.
zom·bie n. 3. One who looks or behaves like an automaton.

I did put McGuyver into the editorial section! (none / 0) (#120)
by redqueen on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 08:28:38 AM EST

Thanks for your comments anyway..

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
oh whoops (none / 0) (#121)
by yaksox on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 08:35:13 AM EST

that doesn't say much formy thoroughness.
zom·bie n. 3. One who looks or behaves like an automaton.
[ Parent ]
They probably have (2.33 / 6) (#117)
by mettaur on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 07:13:31 AM EST

"Paul and Heather - ever heard of England's annual fox hunt"

I don't follow celebrity news (*shudder*) at all, but the fox hunts draw a lot of similar protesting to the seal clubbing, and it's very likely they protest that too.


--
[Applying business theory to trolling]
It was self-defense (2.00 / 6) (#131)
by Orion Blastar Again on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 01:33:21 PM EST

the baby seal pup gave me the evil-eye so I had to bash its brains in. It was either it or me. It was coming right for me, at 100 MPH, giving me the old evil eye. Then 100 of them did exactly the same thing. I barely got out of there alive, but I was able to feed my family on the pelts that I got from the whole situation. I've seen it before, baby seal pups going bad. They attacked and murdered a friend of mine back in 2002, left nothing but bones. They got sharp teeth and claws, don't let that baby pup seal look fool you, they'd soon as eat ya as look at ya.

Learn how to be a liberal.
I can't believe it's not Liberalism!
"Thanks for the pointers on using the internet. You're links to uncylopedia have turned my life around." -zenador

So true. Nasty s.o.b.s. n/t (none / 0) (#137)
by redqueen on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:32:54 PM EST



Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
Interesting and Informative (1.33 / 6) (#132)
by alphaxer0 on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 02:05:25 PM EST

+1 FP

thank you. n/t (none / 0) (#136)
by redqueen on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:31:47 PM EST



Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
-1, gay (1.00 / 9) (#133)
by bighappyface on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 03:41:44 PM EST



slander. (3.00 / 3) (#159)
by Zombie Hunger For Gay Dick on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 11:48:50 PM EST

There is nothing gay about brutally slaying endangered animals for profit.

You have the wrong idea about gay clubs.

Please don't make me take my real life to Husi!!! Somaudlin
[ Parent ]

Make baby seals ugly with genetic engineering (2.12 / 8) (#134)
by nlscb on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 04:50:12 PM EST

The problem will magically disappear.

Brought to you by the society for the protection of unphotogenic endangered species.

Comment Search has returned - Like a beaten wife, I am pathetically grateful. - mr strange

Actually, (none / 0) (#135)
by redqueen on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:31:23 PM EST

once they grow up they are quite ugly. I remember being at Pier 39 once in San Fran -- and there were thousands of them laying on the docks. Hideous creatures, and make the most awful sounds. Sure, they're cute when small -- but then like most other animals, they grow up.

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
not just like animals. (none / 1) (#138)
by seisa on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:36:05 PM EST

like humans, too.

[ Parent ]
Good point. n/t (none / 0) (#139)
by redqueen on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 05:37:50 PM EST



Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
Actually, it would (none / 1) (#144)
by blaaf on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 06:58:19 PM EST

solve the problem, but not in the way you think. If they were ugly from birth, then nobody would want to club them and make them into ugly, inexpensive fur coats.

[ Parent ]
Keep the fur, give them the face of Richard Nixon$ (none / 0) (#161)
by nlscb on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 12:03:08 AM EST


Comment Search has returned - Like a beaten wife, I am pathetically grateful. - mr strange
[ Parent ]

You, Sir, Are A Gifted Thinker. $ (none / 0) (#151)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 08:03:36 PM EST


_____
I am from a small, unknown country in the north called Ca-na-da. We are a simple, grease-loving people who enjoy le weeke
[
Parent ]
iwtp (none / 0) (#232)
by tkatchevzz on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 06:11:43 PM EST



[ Parent ]
I wouldn't club baby seals... (2.60 / 5) (#142)
by guyjin on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 06:38:52 PM EST

but I would club redqueen. Even if I wasn't hungry. -1.
-- 散弾銃でおうがいして ください
-1 One sided (2.16 / 6) (#143)
by blaaf on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 06:54:37 PM EST

"We have to club the seals because there's no other way to make money around here and we need money."

Sorry, that doesn't cut it. Don't you Canadians have a wonderful socialist state to take care of people who don't have enough money? This is pure greed, and ruthless greed at that. Clubbing-baby-seals greed. Why don't these people just go club their own grandmothers and make them into expensive, novelty lampshades while they're at it?

Come on people, have some compassion.

misdirected (none / 1) (#166)
by feyr on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 10:03:21 AM EST

im all for clubbing the grandmothers and the various retards of society, but it seems to be frowned upon.

that aside, they are NOT clubbing baby seals. they are clubbing harp seals, which are slighly older.

as for clubbing, it's about the most humane way to kill an animal short of shooting it in the head, which has other problems. do you eat steak? pork? the pigs and cows of the world gets clubbed too, you don't see celebrities protesting that do you?

[ Parent ]

directed (none / 0) (#186)
by blaaf on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 02:36:03 PM EST

that aside, they are NOT clubbing baby seals. they are clubbing harp seals, which are slighly older.

If you want to be pedantic, you could say that "baby" is a colloquial term for an infant human and so there's no such thing as a "baby seal." In any event they are clubbing seals a few weeks after birth.

as for clubbing, it's about the most humane way to kill an animal short of shooting it in the head, which has other problems. do you eat steak?

No.

pork?

No.

the pigs and cows of the world gets clubbed too, you don't see celebrities protesting that do you?

Actually, you do, but I agree, not enough. Certainly they have as much right to life as seals and it is arguably even worse since these animals suffered more in their confinement. The difference is that there is an international consensus with regards to seals. Not for any good reason, but you take what you can get.

[ Parent ]

Dude, your poll... (2.55 / 9) (#148)
by Lord Snott on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 07:44:53 PM EST


...shows your limited mentality. It needed a third option, "mu".

Would I club seals to feed my family? Stupid question. Am I clubbing a seal to feed to my family, or am I clubbing as many as I can for $52 each? Why the fuck do they need to be clubbed? Can't you find a better way to kill an animal?

And what the fuck is up with comparing over a third of a million animals (325,000 + 10,000) being clubbed to death with the pommy fox hunt? Yeah, the fox hunt is stupid, and cruel, but it's disingenuous to compare the two. (It would be a much closer comparison to bring up the Australian Roo Shoot - tens of thousands of kangaroos culled, shot not clubbed.)

Clubbed. What the fuck?!?! I can almost understand the "shoot from a distance" mentality, but what kind of person can clubb a screaming animal to death, them move on to the next one? That's fucking vile.

And the way you kept bringing up Paris Hilton really made you look shallow. If the only way you can make yourself look confident about the issue is to mock some dozy scrubber that no one gives a shit about, then you need to re-write the article.

I voted +1(SP), but it was only for the discussion. Why can't they move their local economy to some other industry? Surely in a modern interconnected world there are other areas they can invest in. Finance, medical research, engineering, why do they need to rely on such a horrid method of "supplimenting" their income?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This sig in violation of U.S. trademark
registration number 2,347,676.
Bummer :-(

Because (2.50 / 2) (#149)
by blaaf on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 07:55:35 PM EST

Why the fuck do they need to be clubbed? Can't you find a better way to kill an animal?

Because it's cheaper and quieter than a bullet. Because the seal can't defend itself. Because it minimizes any blood that would be staining their, beautiful, beautiful pelts. It's all about economics and maximizing return on the commodity.

[ Parent ]

Also (none / 1) (#178)
by Gruntathon on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 11:22:32 PM EST

Bullets make holes in otherwise continuous whole skins.
__________
If they hadn't been such quality beasts (despite being so young) it would have been a nightmare - good self-starting, capable hands are your finest friend. -- Anonymous CEO
[ Parent ]
Well, thanks Mr. Snott (none / 0) (#150)
by redqueen on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 07:56:03 PM EST

for voting it up. You're right in that I didn't give the poll enough thought. No need to take everything (ie. use of the word clubbed) so literally. Re. fox hunt -- it was relevant to the McCartney bit. Seriously though, thanks for the comments!

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
well... (1.00 / 3) (#253)
by Prophet themusicgod1 on Sun Apr 23, 2006 at 01:50:06 AM EST

"but what kind of person can clubb a screaming animal to death, them move on to the next one? That's fucking vile."

I'd take that job in a heartbeat. I'm actually thinking of applying for a job doing this next winter, if there are any openings. That is, if I can figure a way to get to newfoundland or wherever the hell I have to go to get this job. What kind of person am I? Cynical and self-centered, after being poor for too damn long but being educated enough to think that I don't have to just sit on my ass and starve to death?
"I suspect the best way to deal with procrastination is to put off the procrastination itself until later. I've been meaning to try this, but haven't gotten around to it yet."swr
[ Parent ]
Is clubbing the most humane way of killing? (2.50 / 2) (#152)
by Russell Dovey on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 08:10:41 PM EST

Surely a taser would be better, if its frequency was tuned to stop the seal's heart.

"Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light." - Spike Milligan

A laser is even more humane (2.00 / 3) (#170)
by rustv on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 01:33:27 PM EST

If you use a laser, you can correct their eye sight.

____
"Don't tase me, bro." --Andrew Meyer
[ Parent ]
You Think Newfies Can Afford Tasers? (2.50 / 2) (#213)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 03:46:59 PM EST

You may not be fully in touch with the economic realities of the region.


_____
I am from a small, unknown country in the north called Ca-na-da. We are a simple, grease-loving people who enjoy le weeke
[
Parent ]
If a Royal Commission is to be believed, (2.50 / 2) (#244)
by xcham on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 12:46:41 AM EST

http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/can-am/main/right_nav/sealing_myths-en.asp No. Clubbing is fine.

[ Parent ]
I've got a joke for you... (2.71 / 7) (#153)
by bighappyface on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 08:45:17 PM EST

A baby seal walks into a club...

...

...

...what you were expecting more?

I have to say (2.25 / 4) (#155)
by b5d on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 10:22:16 PM EST

I like this whole harp seals/French sex kittens aspect. I'm seeing some sort of compromise here. Maybe we could set up mud wrestling matches between them. I think the seal hunters would gladly give up their craft for the chance to see sex kittens mud wrestle seals.

...like mental floss for your teeth.

What about Cheney and the old man hunting? (1.33 / 3) (#158)
by Chewbacca Uncircumsized on Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 10:39:02 PM EST

He could hunt Angela Lansbury and his wife Heather.

economics sorta works, but... (1.60 / 5) (#162)
by Lode Runner on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 02:44:48 AM EST

There are even better reasons for clubbing seals, but these reasons return us to the ongoing malaise of the white Canadian male. He had been taking a daily drubbing over the past 30 years. For better or worse, the women's movement had had its breakthrough successes and the old, easy white male ego had withered in the glare. Even the mighty consolations of rooting for your team on TV had been skewed. There was now less reward in watching sports than there used to be, a clear and declarable loss. The great white stars of yesteryear were for the most part gone, gone in football, in basketball, in boxing, and half-gone in baseball. Black genius now prevailed in all these sports (and the Hispanics were coming up fast; even the Asians were beginning to make their mark). We white men were now left with half of tennis (at least its male half), and might also point to ice-hockey (let's face it, Czechs and Russians aren't really white), skiing, soccer, golf (with the notable exception of the Tiger), as well as lacrosse, swimming, and the World-Wide Wrestling Federation -- remnants and orts of a once-great and glorious centrality.

On the other hand, the good white Canadian male still had seal clubbing. If eskimos were numerous there, still they were not a majority, and the pros, (if the TV was a reliable witness), suggested that the percentage of white men increased as one rose in rank. If we cannot find our machismo anywhere else, we can certainly settle in on the interface between cudgel and baby seal. Let me then advance the offensive suggestion that this may have been one of the cardinal reasons we went looking for seals to club. We knew we were likely to be good at it. In the course, however, of all the quick events of the past few months, our boys went through a transmogrification. Indeed, it was one hellion of a morph. We went from a potentially great athlete into a master surgeon capable of operating at high speed on an awfully sick patient. Now, even as the patient is being stitched up, a new and troubling question arises: have any fresh medicines been developed to deal with what seem to be teeming infections? Do we really know how to treat livid suppurations we were not quite prepared for? Or would it be better to ignore the consequences?

Mightn't we keep trusting our great Canadian luck, our faith in our divinely protected can-do luck? We are, by custom, gung-ho. If these suppurations prove to be unmanageable, or just too time-consuming, may we not leave them behind? We could move on to the next venue. Walruses, we might declare in our best Peter Jennings voice: You can flop around and growl, but you can't hide. Baleens, you over-rated tanks of blubber, are you out of gas? And polar bears, watch it, we have eyes for you. You could be our next real meal. Because when we are feeling this good, we are ready to go, and go again. We must. We have had a real taste. Why, there's a basket-full of billions to be made in bludgeoning animals just so long as we stay ahead of the trillions of debt that are coming after us.

What a rural Newfoundlander has to say (2.66 / 12) (#164)
by MichaelCrawford on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 05:15:37 AM EST

I have never in my life met anyone who loved animals more than my wife Bonita. We have two dogs that she loves as if they were her children. She also once had the aim of applying to vet school, because she wanted to heal animals as well.

But she is also from a small village in rural Newfoundland that at one time was prosperous because of the cod fishing that was still good during her childhood. But the Newfoundlander's lot has always been hard: her father worked his whole career in the cold storage room at a fish processing plant, working a backbreaking job while never earning enough for them to enjoy much luxury. Her older brother went on to work at the same plant, until he moved to Ontario recently.

Many Newfoundlanders move to places like Ontario. Why? Because overfishing, largely the result of mismanagement and the widespread use of deep-water draggers, caused the cod fish stocks to collapse. Had Canada not banned cod fishing in the Atlantic, the cod would have been totally wiped out. It is just beginning to come back, after about fifteen years, but many foreign countries, notably Portugal, have refused to cut back their quotas, so the recovery has been slow. Canada still does not permit large-scale cod fishing in the Atlantic.

The result was that Bonita's father was forced into early retirement. This was funded at collosal expense by the government, trying to find a way to ease the economic impact. Bonita's brother spent most of his time filleting fish caught off Russia then imported to Newfoundland for processing, but it wasn't enough to keep the plant operating very much.

Millions were poured into retraining, with the result that fly-by-night "colleges" and "trade schools" sprang up throughout the province. There were some that did provide a good education, but there were no jobs for the trainees after they graduated. And like the laid off auto plant workers in Michigan back in the seventies, what's a fifty year old man to do with his trade school certificate, when he lives in a tiny Newfoundland outport?

There has been mass emigration to Newfoundland, primarily to Ontario, British Columbia and oil-rich Alberta, but to the United States as well. The once-prosperous fishing villages of Newfoundland are dying. They closed the high school Bonita graduated from, and the elementary school in a neighboring town, so they could keep the remaining schools open by coalescing the student bodies from both towns.

One of the gas stations in her home town closed. Now there is just one. The bank closed, and after a while they even took away the automated teller machine, and there is talk of closing the post office too.

There is nowhere for the kids to spend their time. At one time there was a recreation center, run by a kindly old man who earned his pay from video games and by selling candy, but even that is gone. Now there's naught for the kids to do but hang out on street corners smoking cigarretes.

The one drug store in town is now closed.

I said all this because I wanted you to understand how it could be that Bonita, though a committed animal lover, supports the seal hunt. It's not just the seal hunt, but there is also moose, and inshore fishing of other fish species such as salmon, that provides the sustenance for many a Newfoundlander.

It's not just that times are hard for Newfoundland. A whole culture, a whole way of life is dying. Seal have been hunted in Newfoundland for hundreds of years - it was England's first colony, founded just a few years after Columbus reached the Caribbean. The Vikings had a short-lived colony there a thousand years ago.

I expect that the young people of Newfoundland will do OK, but it will come by either moving to the cities of Cornerbrook or St. John's, or by moving to the mainland or the US. No longer will they make their way in the world as their fathers and mothers did before them.

If you have a leather belt, leather shoes or leather jacket, you are every bit as culpable as anyone who wears a sealskin coat. If you ever eat at McDonalds, or enjoy a fine steak, the death of cattle is as much on your hands as the death of Newfoundland seal is on the hands of someone who eats seal meat.

I'm sure that Paris Hilton wears leather and eats meat. Why should Newfoundlanders not be able to earn their keep from what few resources Nature gives them?


Michael Crawford might be a link whore, but he's our link whore. -- MotorMachineMer

a false argument (3.00 / 2) (#211)
by jdonnell on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:43:38 PM EST

You and the OP gave the same argument. Life is hard for these people and that is justification for what they do. Neither of you address whether the act itself, on it's own, is right or wrong. I could use your argument, create a bunch of emotional stories of hard life, and then use it to justify robbery, murder, crack dealing, etc. Appealing to a hard life is not a valid argument for x, y, or z being right or wrong.

blogbloc.com
[ Parent ]
Uh. (none / 1) (#218)
by NoMoreNicksLeft on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 08:28:50 PM EST

It's self-evident that it's not wrong. Has been for centuries. Anyone who wants to claim that it is wrong, needs something to back -that- up.

I mean, goddamn. Wheat is alive too, am I no longer allowed to eat bread? Are we all going to have to eat chemically synthesized sugars and vitamins from now on, to protect the poor vegetables? It's absurd to think from that standpoint.

--
Do not look directly into laser with remaining good eye.
[ Parent ]

It's called FEELING (none / 1) (#222)
by parasitical on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 06:40:00 AM EST

"It's self-evident that it's not wrong. Has been for centuries. Anyone who wants to claim that it is wrong, needs something to back -that- up."

How is it self evident? Do you believe that humans are god and therefore anything we do to all other animals is ok as they are totally inferior?

You need to think is it suistainable? Yes. Does it cause them huge amounts of pain? Maybye. I don't know how they kill them, but it should be humane (I hate the human in that...)

Wheat is suistanable. It's very doubtful that it causes pain. Whether the destruction caused by converting land to arable farm land is ethical is a much more questionable matter...



[ Parent ]
Ah. (none / 0) (#230)
by NoMoreNicksLeft on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 12:23:12 PM EST

Humans as god? Dunno, but no tiger or bear ever debated the other tigers and bears about whether it was wrong to eat people.

Pain? This is the most retarded argument possible. All living things have pain, in one form or another. Trees scream when you chop them down, and I would expect wheat also to have something like this. Besides which, we tend to slaughter our animals in ways that reduce pain.

Sustainability? This is the second most retarded argument possible. It's not 1890, and they aren't carrier pigeons. We know better now. It's managed by a single governmental entity, unlike fish stocks, so there can't be any excuse for letting the population decline to a dangerous level.

No, it's about pathological sentimentality on the part of people who have too much free time and never wondered where the fuck bacon comes from.

But my favorite line of all:

Whether the destruction caused by converting land to arable farm land is ethical is a much more questionable matter... [referring to wheat]

The destruction? How can it be destruction? If a songbird builds a nest, or a beaver dams up a stream, how the fuck is this not destruction? Why is every animal on the planet allowed to get a free pass, but not us? You seem to want to put us in the same category with all other animals, when it suits your purpose, that of claiming our own human lives are no more important than a seal's. Yet, when we step out of the slaughterhouse, and go to plow a field, suddenly we aren't allowed to? Suddenly, we're above all these other animals (or below, we might say, it's them that now have privileges we don't) ?

No, arguing cannot convince people like you. However, I am against murdering even marginally human things like yourselves, so I'll just have to hope you get bird flu and die suffering.

--
Do not look directly into laser with remaining good eye.
[ Parent ]

Intellect is irrelevant (none / 0) (#238)
by parasitical on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 08:35:52 AM EST

"Humans as god? Dunno, but no tiger or bear ever debated the other tigers and bears about whether it was wrong to eat people."

How do you know that? But I admit, it's unlikely. This is irrelevant, though.

Lets look at what morals intrinsically are:

Nothing.

Unless you believe in some supreme being that is right - just because they say it - that's all it is.

If you follow evolutationary theory, morals must thus bring some advantage. Which they tend to. This is also why different animals have different morals - if any.

Typical morals for humans work well for humans. Typical morals for wolfs work well for wolfs. Typical morals for deer work well for.. well, I think you get it.

So, from that perspective, there is absolutely nothing wrong with killing a seal in a tortorous way. Just like theres nothing wrong with me killing you in a tortorous way. Do you mind me doing that?

You proboably do. And the seal proboably doesn't like being killed in a tortorous way. And so there are morals; human morals and - proboably - seal morals.

Ok, so now that's done...

"Pain? This is the most retarded argument possible. All living things have pain, in one form or another. Trees scream when you chop them down, and I would expect wheat also to have something like this."

Sources, please.

"Besides which, we tend to slaughter our animals in ways that reduce pain."

Yes. And I don't have a problem with a truly sustainable non-painful seal hunt.

"Sustainability? This is the second most retarded argument possible. It's not 1890, and they aren't carrier pigeons. We know better now. It's managed by a single governmental entity, unlike fish stocks, so there can't be any excuse for letting the population decline to a dangerous level."

We know better yes, but we still know shit on a whole ecosystem level. We just don't know how things are going to respond. It's a chaotic system.

As for there being no excuses, since when's that made a difference?

"The destruction? How can it be destruction?"

Well, it depends on what the land was in the beggining. But arable land tends to be much less richer in life than naturual land.

"If a songbird builds a nest, or a beaver dams up a stream, how the fuck is this not destruction?"

How is it destruction?

"Why is every animal on the planet allowed to get a free pass, but not us?"

Because, according to you at least, other animals  are incapable of debating the issue.

"You seem to want to put us in the same category with all other animals, when it suits your purpose, that of claiming our own human lives are no more important than a seal's. Yet, when we step out of the slaughterhouse, and go to plow a field, suddenly we aren't allowed to? Suddenly, we're above all these other animals (or below, we might say, it's them that now have privileges we don't) ?"

Intellect and comprehension of pain are nearly totally unrelated!

Anyway, I don't believe we're above other animals. I think we show amazing intelligence, but even more amazing stupidity and apathy.

[ Parent ]

Wow (none / 0) (#227)
by der on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 09:36:13 AM EST

Wheat?

Worst. Argument. Ever.



[ Parent ]
Counter-productive (2.00 / 4) (#172)
by tbannist on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 02:15:39 PM EST

I think you missed a very important and human part of the equation. If the Canadian government bans the seal hunt the net effect will be simple: 1) The loss of tax revenue to support the local government. 2) The end of regulation over the seal harvest that is no longer legal. 3) The continuation of illegal harvesting of seals because the people with the ability to kill seals for a living are still there and the people who want seal products are still there. 4) Turn thousands of poor fishermen into criminals because they want to provide for their families. They'd probably go back to clubbing because it's quick, cheap, and efficient, and the white seals would no longer be protected. Banning the hunt will only achieve the exact opposite of what these mostly-ignorant B-list celebrities want. Of course, this the world today, nobody has to actually think through to the consequences of the political decisions they champion. Never mind that the regulated seal cull also helps the Cod stocks recover from overfishing performed in no small amount by Russian, Spanish and Portugese factory-trawlers. Let's blame the fishermen who live there, obviously if they'd fished less, the trawlers that raked the bottom of international water's off Canada's coast would have been able to continue destroying that environment for years more.

Very constructive feedback. (none / 0) (#173)
by redqueen on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 02:27:52 PM EST

Thank you. Do you have any dupes on k5? I see you only have 7 comments and I would be interested in reading your opinion on other topics.

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
LOL (none / 0) (#174)
by wowboy on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 03:51:12 PM EST

i love how innocently she asks too.

[ Parent ]
We're in the eye of a shitacane! (2.25 / 4) (#175)
by nightfire on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 04:18:58 PM EST

As a Montrealer - well said, redqueen. Hipocrisy knows no bounds.

Merci beaucoup. (none / 0) (#179)
by redqueen on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 12:04:07 AM EST

And in an un-related note: you have a wonderful city.

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
No shit talk until we're back in power, Randy n/t (none / 0) (#226)
by der on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 09:30:05 AM EST



[ Parent ]
Fuck, I LOVE that show. n/t (none / 0) (#229)
by redqueen on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 11:45:51 AM EST



Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
Facts for consideration. (2.16 / 6) (#176)
by gandalf_grey on Wed Apr 05, 2006 at 04:46:05 PM EST

1) Baby seals are cute. 2) Baby seals are not hunted. It's illegal. You can't even sell the pelts... there's no market. 3) Seals are not, nor have ever been, endangered as a species. 4) Being cute has never been a good reason not to kill an animal. 5) (If you don't buy fact #4, consider this:) adult seals are not cute. They're 300 pound snarling snotty monsters. They're buffugly. They're also not particularly pleasant from a personality perspective.

More facts (none / 0) (#225)
by Fred_A on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 08:33:41 AM EST

Most marine life (fish and crustaceans) are gathered in the wild and killed by either crushing them in nets or slow asphyxiation once they're removed from the water.

If the same thing was done to (for example) cows, everyone would be screaming their head off. However since these aren't even mammals and certainly aren't cute, nobody cares.

People will want to save squirrels but nobody will care about soil mites which are way more important to the local equilibrium.

It's all very nice to want to act nice to the environment and to other life forms that share the ecosystem with us. Those who do so ought to be a bit more coherent about it though.

All those protesters should go buy a plush toy and be done with it.

Fred in Paris
[ Parent ]

Right on, brother. (none / 0) (#243)
by xcham on Mon Apr 10, 2006 at 12:36:43 AM EST

In fact a Royal Commission on the subject back in the 80's found that clubbing was one of the MOST HUMANE ways to kill a seal. One swift blow to the head and they don't feel a thing after that.

[ Parent ]
Do they have vacation packages? (2.00 / 2) (#181)
by nlscb on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 12:26:02 AM EST

I think this would be an awesome way to get out one's frustrations. Too bad the hunt's in the winter.

Comment Search has returned - Like a beaten wife, I am pathetically grateful. - mr strange

Cool (2.00 / 4) (#182)
by Scrymarch on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 01:50:33 AM EST

One more pro-hunting article and k5 can finally be the virtual home of Red Meat Liberalism.

Redundant (1.20 / 5) (#183)
by Notorious WoW G on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 06:21:07 AM EST

Only homosexuals and women (i.e. idiots) care about animals.
--
AND I HATE THE WORD 'FAT.' WHO CARES?!!! DON'T YOU KNOW HOW TO LOOK BEYOND A PERSONS APPEARANCE AND INTO THEIR HEART??! -- somaudlin
Uh, don't be a fucktard (1.33 / 6) (#185)
by tert on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 12:09:04 PM EST

This is the 'greenhouse intensity' argument from Bushco in a new shiny wrapper.

Yes, improving our environment is going to make life a lot harder for a large number of people. The simple fact of the matter is that having six billion people on the planet is very bad for the planet, and ultimately either the population will decline (yes, Newfie kiddies will die) or the population will decline.

There's no other choice. It's not like nature just dies out without taking us with it.



Don't be a tard yourself (3.00 / 3) (#189)
by Polverone on Thu Apr 06, 2006 at 05:34:04 PM EST

Canada has abundant natural resources and a small population. If the whole world was populated like Canada, there would be no population problem at all. Do you have evidence that the seal hunt is endangering viable seal populations, regionally or otherwise, or are you just yelling at the shadow people?
--
It's not a just, good idea; it's the law.
[ Parent ]
But that's not what the article was about, tard (none / 0) (#209)
by tert on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 12:53:40 PM EST

It's hard to notice that the seal hunt is sustainable amongst all of the pages of self-righteous celebrity mocking and economic justifications.

[ Parent ]
Well, (none / 0) (#210)
by redqueen on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 01:28:54 PM EST

The sustainability issue wasn't that relevant to the argument I was trying to make. But the links are there -- if you'd like to learn more.

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
Suggestion.. Make fucking sense mate. NT (none / 0) (#248)
by RandomAction on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 08:34:12 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Hehe (2.50 / 2) (#203)
by trhurler on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 02:30:54 AM EST

Celebrities... causes... yeah. Why does ANYONE take them seriously?

--
'God dammit, your posts make me hard.' --LilDebbie

Good question (none / 0) (#207)
by redqueen on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 11:42:50 AM EST

However, so long as they are influencing general/voting public (arguably, more so than academics, industry experts, politicians, etc) -- we should be taking them seriously, and trolling them.

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
You know why. $ (none / 0) (#236)
by skyknight on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 08:18:06 AM EST



It's not much fun at the top. I envy the common people, their hearty meals and Bruce Springsteen and voting. --SIGNOR SPAGHETTI
[ Parent ]
b/c they are attractive and successful n/t (none / 0) (#254)
by Comrade Wonderful on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 07:02:20 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Vegan trolling food item of the day (2.50 / 2) (#204)
by strlen on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 04:07:24 AM EST

If anyone likes Japanese cuisine and can find a more or less authentic place, they should ask for 'screaming sashimi'. What it consist of is basically raw baby seal meat. Very tender and delicious mind you, worth in it of itself for that, but of course the best thing about is the face of a militant vegan when you tell them you've eaten baby seal.

--
[T]he strongest man in the world is he who stands most alone. - Henrik Ibsen.
IT WAS YOU!!!! (2.00 / 4) (#208)
by OzJuggler on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 11:48:59 AM EST

Serge the little seal cub liked to laugh and play
and frolick with his family in a land so far away.
But when trappers killed his parents he vowed on their last breath,
he'd be the fashion industry seaaalll...OF DEATH!

Serge the little seal cub, you best be ware of his wrath.
He's furry and he's funny and a PSYCHOPATH.

-OzJuggler
(with apologies to Aaagh It's the Mr Hell Show. Yes we do get some quality culture imported into Australia occasionally.)

Seal's Music Sucks. (2.25 / 4) (#214)
by CheeseburgerBrown on Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 03:48:56 PM EST

McCartney is just kicking him while he's down.


_____
I am from a small, unknown country in the north called Ca-na-da. We are a simple, grease-loving people who enjoy le weeke
Brigitte Bardot ? (1.00 / 2) (#223)
by xaccrocheur on Sat Apr 08, 2006 at 06:44:12 AM EST

Honest, I though she was dead..? I mean who cares about this old witch ? Wow, now I remember her singing... Shite.

Maybe we can place an annual quota on... (none / 1) (#237)
by skyknight on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 08:19:08 AM EST

the clubbing of celebrities and have at them once a year.

It's not much fun at the top. I envy the common people, their hearty meals and Bruce Springsteen and voting. --SIGNOR SPAGHETTI
lol -- that's hilarious. n/t (none / 0) (#239)
by redqueen on Sun Apr 09, 2006 at 08:51:41 AM EST



Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
Nice writing stlyle; now justify whale hunting. (none / 1) (#247)
by RandomAction on Mon Apr 17, 2006 at 08:22:40 PM EST



Y'know, I always took you for a downtowner (2.00 / 2) (#249)
by Egil Skallagrimson on Wed Apr 19, 2006 at 10:34:14 PM EST

but you proved me wrong. I am by my clubbing club tomorrow.

----------------

Enterobacteria phage T2 is a virulent bacteriophage of the T4-like viruses genus, in the family Myoviridae. It infects E. coli and is the best known of the T-even phages. Its virion contains linear double-stranded DNA, terminally redundant and circularly permuted.

I didn't read it all... (2.50 / 2) (#250)
by D Jade on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 01:37:58 AM EST

... I got this far:

And now, matters are made worse - Morrissey is not coming to Canada to tour. Bona Drag.

I couldn't go on after this because I found myself asking "How does this make matters worse? Isn't this a good thing?"

So I had to stop reading because this one statement soaks up the entire article's credibility.

I'll end by saying, "Fuck the seals! If it means that Morrissey isn't touring then they can kill the whole fucking lot!"

Oh yeah and +1FP if I had voted for it...

You're a shitty troll, so stop pretending you have more of a life than a cool dude -- HollyHopDrive

Aw D Jade.. (none / 0) (#251)
by redqueen on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 05:46:55 PM EST

you so sweet.

hey what happened with Mystess?

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure... (none / 0) (#252)
by D Jade on Thu Apr 20, 2006 at 09:17:04 PM EST

... There was a mix up about who was supposed to call who because I talked on the phone to her on a Sunday night when I was half asleep. So I guess we'll just have to make another time...

You're a shitty troll, so stop pretending you have more of a life than a cool dude -- HollyHopDrive
[ Parent ]
Clubbing them softly | 254 comments (218 topical, 36 editorial, 0 hidden)
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