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My Advice For The Young Guys, or, Here's Hoping You Don't Screw Up Like I Did

By internetslacker in Op-Ed
Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 06:21:17 AM EST
Tags: Culture (all tags)

I've thought about writing this article for a few years but I've hesitated. Slacked off, really. I'm a goddamn Slacker and PROUD of it... but my lifestyle choice and personal deadlines rarely empty their genital sacs simultaneously.

But! What I'm going to say needs to be said, goddammit... and if you know any young men who can benefit from the following advice, forward this article. FORWARD IT! I'm serious as a cop investigating a doughnut factory hold-up, folks. I've experienced A LOT of bad shit and, honestly, I don't want to see guys in their teens and twenties going through the same anguish I did.

Writing an advice article can be tricky; I firmly believe in my following wisdom, but I do have a real fear of sounding like a prick-headed know-it-all. I'm not such a disgusting creature, believe me. I'm just a humble thirty-eight year old eccentric bald-headed bastard writer with the benefit of some hard-earned wisdom. SO GIVE ME MY GODDAMNED DUE.

This article is aimed towards men, but I hope anyone of any gender (weird as that can get these days) will benefit from my ramblings. Except my ex-wife, of course. Nobody, and I mean nobody , can give her advice.

Criticize me, think me conceited, whatever... I don't give a ding-dong diddly goddamn. BUT! If the following advice helps just one young guy avoid some grief, I'm a happy slack bastard.

1) Don't get married too fast.

You may think you've met the love of your life. Marriage sounds like a great idea! Why not get hooked up early because you just KNOW she's the girl for you?!?

My advice: Wait. WAIT. WAIT YOU HORNY SON OF A BITCH. You'll be surprised how fast relationships can sour: you rush into marriage and two months later you hate your wife so much you're eyeing your power saw and the basement freezer. Not that I'm talking from personal experience, of course.

You DO NOT want to be a teen or in your early twenties facing divorce and possible alimony. You'll need that money for education, saving up for helpful crap like a car, decent clothes, etc. A broken marriage will break your bank account and, more than likely, break your heart so bad you may not ever recover

Trust me. Don't get married early. Since we're on the subject...

2) Don't have a kid.

Nothing will brutally mature you faster than being the father of a child, and that's probably not the right thing for you to go through as a young guy. Having a few years of experience under your belt will only serve you better if/when you decide to become a father. For now, hold off on showering your spermatoza all over the female population and use these years for yourself . First you gotta learn what makes you tick before you try to wind someone else's watch, especially an impressionable child.

NOW, if you've already gone off and fathered a child, Life may look pretty bleak, but it's not. You have a responsibility to the child, yes, but you have an equal responsibility to yourself to be a happy and well-adjusted person. You and the mother of your child have to sit down like two adults, maybe find some sane and balanced older adults for advice and mediation, and talk things out. And talk. And talk. You and the mother must mutually decide the relationship you'll have, both with her and the child. Lack of communication is a mistake I made in my life, and it lead to my son becoming estranged to me, and I regret it every day. Of course, my ex was no prize peach herself, but I'll stop right here before things get litigatable.

I could go on and on about this particular topic, but then this article would be a freakin' book. Just remember, in any relationship, honest and open communication is the key. (Unless your girlfriend catches you crying during a sad movie; then it's okay to lie that you have "something caught in your eye".

3) Get a higher education IF it suits you; if you do get a higher education, pick a useful one.

Success is not guaranteed by an education; many very successful people didn't go to college or university, or even graduate high school. The main value of higher education is two-fold: one, to gain knowledge and skills; and two, to get a piece of paper that allows you to bullshit yourself into a higher paying job.

My advice is to go for higher education, but learn something that will be genuinely useful, for babbling christ's sakes. If you get a diploma in "Museum Management", "General Communications", or "Classic French Literature", chances are you're going to be saying, "you want fries with that, sir?" for a good chunk of your life WHILE paying off student loan fees with your minimum wage earnings. OH, THE JOY.

Fill your brain with something actually useful , like computer programming or the basics of running a business or, hell, learn videography if you aspire to be a porn director. Find where your interests, education, and the good jobs meet and you'll have a damn better chance of having a better job than wiping out the grease traps at McDonald's.

4) Be aware that the shit may very well all rain down one day. (civilization collapse)

Yes, I know, GRIM. But be aware, young man, that the few people in power now are seriously pissing off the millions and billions of good folk on this planet. Save up some profits from your porn business for emergency funds, and keep your eye on the news from ALL sources, main and independant. Be critical: most of the mainstream newsfeeds feed bullshit and lies to the masses, while the small news services (both paper and Internet) sometimes get to the real truth in a story.

Stay informed about the world: if and when society beings to collapse around you, you'll have a running start away from the doomed masses...hopefully. Beyond that, hell, I don't know... scour the barren nuclear wastelands for scraps of metal to sell to the mutants for food.

5) Avoid the corporate money trap (buying fashionable items, etc)

Popular media WANTS you to buy, and buy, and buy! Stay in fashion, or you'll never get the girl or be as popular as those shiny bright happy people on television.

Bullshit. Buy what you need, and treat yourself only when you've genuinely done something worth elebrating. Fashion? Fuck it. I wear jeans and a t-shirt... a BLANK t-shirt. If someone is interested in me only for money or trendy clothes or possessions, I could give a rat's plague-infested dripping anal sphincter about their personal welfare. But if someone likes me for whom I am (and that's one weird mofo indeed, both them and me), then they are a friend for life. I don't need fancy goddamn STINKING COLOGNE FOR THAT!

6) Choose friends you know you can depend on.

Be picky about your friends. There are a lot of people out there who'd love to be your friend for their own agenda, be it absorbing your cash, emotional energy, or apartment: "hey, I just need to crash at your place for a few days, budddddyyyyy..."

Give every potential new pal a probation period before calling them a friend; instantly becoming good buddies with everyone you meet will make you a genuinely bitter, angry, and mal-adjusted person (such as myself).

7) When choosing a vice, choose marijuana.

Alcohol and tobacco have claimed millions of lives; I've personally lost a
couple of uncles due to their excessive drinking. Cannabis has caused ZERO deaths. And while smoking anything isn't good for you, if you're gonna have a vice (and who DOESN'T?), my advice would be to go for the "kind bud".

Yes, it's illegal. But we all know that's wrong. The sooner we stop sending money to the alcohol and tobacoo industries and start using a natural beneficial plant we can grow ourselves for low cost, the sooner those huge economic monolithes will stop draining us. And when was the last time you saw two potheads get into a fight? Usually they forget what they were arguing about, unlike alcoholics.

I'm not advocating you smoke cannabis. If you're living free of all vices, good for you (not that I'm going to follow your example). But if you want to alter your brain chemisty, have a joint.

8) Outer confidence is mostly an act for many people as they learn their inner confidence.

Hey, it's true. There's confidence in yourself, and that's good... but if you're still working on that issue, learn to bullshit people into thinking you're one mean decision making motherfucker. Don't be aggressive, be assertive: stand up for yourself, but don't lose your temper. Show a strong face to the world and
save the crying fits for your personal alone times, or close friends if you need someone to talk to.

Cold advice, I know, but it's a cold world. It's also a bullshit world, so feed the bullshit right back to 'em.

9) Trust no one in a position of power, trust those you respect.

Understand that the good politician who genuinely wants to serve the people is the rare exception, not the rule. Many of the laws on the books serve only the wealthy few, certainly not you. Always question why the government wants you to do a certain thing, or pay a new tax, or stay at a new "re-assignment center" for awhile (okay, maybe a bit extreme, but you can see where I'm going with this). If you don't keep trying to find the truth in why you're being manipulated, the lies will continue to control you.

Instead of looking to the powerful and popular, look at the people around you. Seek those approachable friendly bastards who have something to teach, some helpful wisdom to help you avoid the shit-traps of reality. These people ARE around you, more than you know: you just have to be humble for a goddamn second and LOOK.

10) Realize your POWER.

You're a young man. You've got your whole life ahead of you, and all that happy-crappy cliche lemon souffle. But the cliche is true: your youth is POWER. Don't fret about what you DON'T know, BE FREAKING JOYOUS in all the interesting and outright COOL stuff you can learn and do...


There's old people in dusty retirement homes right now, my young friend; their life is over, death is only a few machine pings away. Did THEY do something with their lives? Probably not, since you or I don't know any of their names. Do you want to end up regretting what you didn't do with, well, the juicy lickable vaginal opening that is LIFE? NO! YOU DON'T! Hell, I'm only thirty-eight and I'm ALREADY regretting a lot of stuff I didn't do in my younger years.

You have power now, in your youth and future, that is glorious & precious; many people would give their souls to regain this power, even for a single day. This power is YOURS for many years... but sure as hell not forever. MAKE yourself grow in wisdom, awareness, and knowledge, both in self and the world; your confidence, abilities, and satisfaction will grow more and more every single day, and you will live a goddamned happy life.


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If you're a guy under the age of twenty-five, how do you feel about the future?
o Really optimistic! 5%
o Optimistic. 22%
o Somewhat optimistic. 22%
o Not really looking forward to the future. 3%
o Nothing's getting better. 11%
o Things are getting really bad now, I can't imagine the future. 5%
o Personally, I think we're doomed. 28%

Votes: 53
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o Also by internetslacker

Display: Sort:
My Advice For The Young Guys, or, Here's Hoping You Don't Screw Up Like I Did | 703 comments (649 topical, 54 editorial, 14 hidden)
you forget (2.72 / 11) (#5)
by my gold bling shines on Sun Apr 23, 2006 at 06:20:59 PM EST

that young people have one rule.

1) Whenever someone gives you advice on how to live your life, do the opposite, just to spite them.

All the cataclysmic mistakes you make as you mature, and dealing with the aftermath, that's how you grow as a person. All the people that somehow did everything right the first time round often find something strangely lacking later on. If they continue down the path of getting everything right, they are destined to commit suicide in their tool shed four weeks after retirement.

Stop your blubbering prima donna - BottleRocket
Yeah? YEAH? (3.00 / 3) (#266)
by Russell Dovey on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 07:45:26 AM EST

Well, I'm going to do what this guy's article said, just to piss YOU off! What do you think about THAT, old man?

"Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light." - Spike Milligan
[ Parent ]

"Cannabis has caused ZERO deaths." (2.50 / 2) (#6)
by debacle on Sun Apr 23, 2006 at 06:23:13 PM EST


A semi-good guide up to 5 and 6.

Anything after 5 really can be excluded.

It tastes sweet.

agreed (none / 0) (#15)
by ejeetify on Sun Apr 23, 2006 at 11:28:31 PM EST

Yeah, if cannabis weren't dangerous, it would be perfectly fine to get high and then get behind the wheel of a car.

[ Parent ]
heh (3.00 / 6) (#17)
by trane on Sun Apr 23, 2006 at 11:50:00 PM EST

haven't you heard of the famous Domino's Pizza Delivery Driver study that found that 99% of the drivers drove stoned and had a safety record that exceeded that of the general population?!?

[ Parent ]
Link Please (3.00 / 5) (#20)
by Spendocrat on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 01:29:32 AM EST

[ Parent ]
uh....um...hem....haw.... (3.00 / 5) (#21)
by trane on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 01:37:52 AM EST

okay i made up the study. But I've known a few Domino's delivery drivers and they got stoned all the time and never had accidents!

[ Parent ]
Anecdotal evidence accepted. $ (3.00 / 8) (#22)
by Spendocrat on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 01:51:45 AM EST

[ Parent ]
If I remember (3.00 / 2) (#34)
by brain in a jar on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 05:23:03 AM EST

The results of research on this using a "driving simulator" was that driving stoned is somewhat safer than driving drunk- you are still impaired, but unlike alcohol you tend to realise you are impaired and drive slower. Nonetheless, driving stoned does increase the risk of accidents, just not by as much as alcohol does.

Life is too important, to be taken entirely seriously.
[ Parent ]

what about (none / 0) (#72)
by trane on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 06:07:59 PM EST

driving while talking on a cell phone? driving while arguing with a girlfriend?

[ Parent ]
Both are bad ideas n/t (none / 0) (#109)
by brain in a jar on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 04:34:00 AM EST

Life is too important, to be taken entirely seriously.
[ Parent ]

but should they be illegal? (none / 0) (#126)
by trane on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 04:16:44 PM EST

A far better solution is to develop the tech to drive cars automatically so it don't matter if you be tokin up or chattin or watching tv or whatever as you drive ...

[ Parent ]
In Soviet Ukia (none / 1) (#146)
by brain in a jar on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 12:24:52 AM EST

chatting on your mobile while driving is already illegal, argueing with GF, cannot be made illegal for practical reasons (define argue), and possibly freedom of speech type issues.

As to the technical fix, invent it then we'll see about changing the law. In practical terms, what you need my friend is a train, europe is full of them and they are a great way of getting round when somehow impaired, or when you just cant be assed to drive.

Life is too important, to be taken entirely seriously.
[ Parent ]

unfortunately in USia (none / 0) (#233)
by trane on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 11:17:01 PM EST

we have lots of wide open spaces and pretty inadequate public transportation.

[ Parent ]
Let's not have this discussion again (3.00 / 6) (#55)
by ksandstr on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 02:36:14 PM EST

To wit: when people say that cannabis doesn't kill, they mean that it is impossible to kill yourself with the stuff in the smoke, plant or processed resin. Unlike ethanol, acute poisonings from which cause thousands of deaths worldwide every year.

Sure, acting like a complete fool around Dangerous Machinery and traffic in particular is really fucking stupid. Yet I don't expect that you'd blame cell phones if some kid gets hit by a car because she's too involved in tapping a text message to her friends while crossing the road.

Oh wait, it's because it's the drugs. They have demons inside them, you know. Gives niggers the strength of ten ordinary men.

[ Parent ]

We have a question (2.20 / 5) (#9)
by United Fools on Sun Apr 23, 2006 at 08:17:29 PM EST

How to be sure we can sell valuable metal after the civilization collapses? There will be no police, no law, so how can you be sure the bad guys just won't take the metal and leave without paying?

We are united, we are fools, and we are America!
because (3.00 / 6) (#13)
by don brakes on Sun Apr 23, 2006 at 11:25:12 PM EST

all the metal will be signed to a label so the riaa will kick their ass if they try to steal it.

[ Parent ]
+1 FP, sincere (1.85 / 7) (#10)
by United Fools on Sun Apr 23, 2006 at 08:18:40 PM EST

We are united, we are fools, and we are America!
Thank you! (none / 1) (#11)
by internetslacker on Sun Apr 23, 2006 at 08:29:08 PM EST

Mucho appreciated, UF.

www.internetslacker.com www.internetslacker.net www.internetslacker.org
[ Parent ]

interesting (2.66 / 6) (#14)
by don brakes on Sun Apr 23, 2006 at 11:27:12 PM EST

i'm starting to question the whole idea of living my life trying to avoid future regret.

Advocating betterment of man: +1 /nt (1.66 / 3) (#16)
by infernalmajesty on Sun Apr 23, 2006 at 11:29:43 PM EST

I [...] hit submit [...,] repeating a rookie mistake. Oh well. - Kaki Nix Sain
all good except for #4 (1.33 / 3) (#18)
by circletimessquare on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 12:07:57 AM EST

#4 is f***ing retarded

a meteor can hit me in the head tomorrow. the point being, i can't control that. so even though it means my death, since i can't control it, it is what it is. i won't prepare for the bird flu/ osama with nukes/ whatever. it can next week, it can happen never. who knows? i won't prepare for these thing simply because i don't know if/ when they are oging to happen, and even if they happened, whether or not i'm fucked that day, a week from then, or, with pure luck, never, depends on random variables utterly beyond my control or foresight, or anyone else's

i need to waste my brain cycles on things i can actually control in my life. wasting my brain cycles on things i could never possibly control is really stupid and quite hysterical

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

take some responsibility for your situation (none / 1) (#26)
by Entendre Entendre on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 03:19:53 AM EST

Be prepared for when a tornado flattens your neighborhood, or a hurricane swamps your city, or the terrorists blow up the power plants in your state, or H5N1 interrupts the whole world's economy (SARS didn't, but you never know).

You can't control what happens, but you can control what you get to eat (or whether you get to eat) for the next couple weeks. Whether or not you have a tent to sleep in. Whether or not you have anything but swamp water to drink. What you wipe with. Etc, etc.

Or you can whine about how it took too long for anybody to show up and save your ass. Except that after Katrina, there's no excuse. Everybody knows that the government can't deal with a catastrophe.

Have you got insurance of any kind? Then why not prepare for other stuff too?

Reduce firearm violence: aim carefully.
[ Parent ]

i don't have insurance (none / 1) (#30)
by circletimessquare on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 03:48:22 AM EST

live life in the here and now, or have no life at all, because you've spent your entire life imagining the absolute worst was going to happen, you blink, your life is over, and nothing happened at all, good or bad. because you always prepared for your life, rather than lived it

it's really a clash of philosophies: for high-catastrophe, low-chance situations, i say fuck it. you say: omfg, let's prepare. what a hysteria-driven personality that is

so i think i will enjoy my life more than you, even if it shorter, highly unlikely as that is

and i worked at the world trade center until 9/11/01. left the wtc at 9 pm on 9/10/01, woke up late the next day because of that. the lesson for me?: capricious random events, and i am here, rather than dead

so imagine that, look what that experience taught me

maybe you need to learn too

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

too late (none / 0) (#98)
by Entendre Entendre on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 11:51:40 PM EST

I've already stashed a bunch of food and water. It didn't require "always" preparing, it took like an hour, maybe less, to to make an extra grocery run, stop at a hardware store for a big plastic box, and put it all away. That's all it takes.

Reduce firearm violence: aim carefully.
[ Parent ]

When choosing a vice, choose marijuana (2.00 / 4) (#28)
by mumble on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 03:44:58 AM EST

I have to strongly disagree with this one. I personally know _5_ people that developed schizophrenia from doing too much dope! I don't know of a single case where alcohol or ciggies have caused that.

Ask Mike, schizophrenia can fuck up your life absolutely and totally.

stats for a better tomorrow
bitcoin: 1GsfkeggHSqbcVGS3GSJnwaCu6FYwF73fR
"They must know I'm here. The half and half jug is missing" - MDC.
"I've grown weary of googling the solutions to my many problems" - MDC.

I agree there are people who shouldn't smoke pot.. (none / 1) (#39)
by internetslacker on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 10:17:26 AM EST

But then I've met people who sure as hell could have used a joint just to calm themselves down. And, with all due respect, I know of a lot more than five people who are hurting themselves with alcohol and tobacco waaaay more than someone could with cannabis.

www.internetslacker.com www.internetslacker.net www.internetslacker.org
[ Parent ]

also (none / 0) (#73)
by trane on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 06:11:10 PM EST

pot is pretty easy to quit, if you don't like the effects. I personally know at least two people who smoked pot as teenagers but won't touch it now. I can smoke openly in front of them and they have no desire to do it, they just let me do my thing and i let them do their thing and (most of the time) it's cool.

[ Parent ]
No no no no No NO NO!!! (3.00 / 3) (#47)
by The Ghost of ChefSalad Past on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 12:17:54 PM EST

Pot doesn't CAUSE schizophrenia. Genes and brain defects cause schizophrenia. Pot just makes you extra paranoid, which can make your already present (though not necessarily acknowledged) schizophrenic tendancies and symptoms more pronounced.

One night .. he just spontaneously vomited and simultaneously defecated in his pants. - osm
[ Parent ]

ah yes (none / 0) (#57)
by osm on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 03:13:03 PM EST

that terrible paranoia. mix it with anxiety and that's why i quit smoking it. sometimes i can get away with it in small doses, but it's easier just to avoid it.

[ Parent ]

see this is the great thing about pot (none / 1) (#74)
by trane on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 06:12:23 PM EST

it's not really that addictive. if you don't like it, you can quit pretty damn easily.

[ Parent ]
Yes! (none / 0) (#100)
by mumble on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 12:35:59 AM EST

Yes it DOES! Sure, there are many, many people that can smoke as much dope as they want without ill effect (at least no long term effect). But I stand by my comment. There is a small percentage of people that just shouldn't do pot. In those people dope _causes_ schizophrenia. If they hadn't done the dope they would be sane now.

So people doing large amounts of pot, especially if they are under 20 or so, take a risk that _they_ are one of the unlucky ones.

stats for a better tomorrow
bitcoin: 1GsfkeggHSqbcVGS3GSJnwaCu6FYwF73fR
"They must know I'm here. The half and half jug is missing" - MDC.
"I've grown weary of googling the solutions to my many problems" - MDC.
[ Parent ]

in my experience (none / 1) (#127)
by trane on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 04:19:56 PM EST

those who don't like pot find it very easy to quit. My brother for example: he used to smoke it in high school but won't touch it since. I can smoke up in front of him and he doesn't give a damn (except sometimes if I try to smoke while he's driving he'll freak out about cops, but that's an artifact of the drug prohibition laws).

[ Parent ]
True (2.33 / 3) (#169)
by Sgt York on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 03:21:22 PM EST

There are a number of people who are predisposed to schizophrenia by a set of environmental and genetic factors who will have the disease triggered by pot. However, this is not a good argument for the illegality of pot.

There are a number of people predisposed to cancer by a number of environmental and genetic factors who will have the disease triggered by the use of tobacco. However, this is not a good argument for the illegality of tobacco.

There are a number of people who are predisposed to hepatitis by a number of environmental and genetic factors who will have the disease triggered by drinking alchohol. However, this is not a good argument for the illegality of alcohol.

There are a number of people predisposed to chronic fibrotic disease of the lung by a number of environmental and genetic factors who will have the disease triggered by diesel exhaust. However, this is not a good argument for the illegality of large trucks.


There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.
[ Parent ]

I didn't say... (none / 0) (#237)
by mumble on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 12:12:21 AM EST

I didn't say that it should be illegal. My point was that pot is not as harmless as the article implies. There are risks. And as far as they go, schizophrenia is a real bitch if you get it. Again, ask Mike. Probably worse than some of the other scenarious you mention in your post.

stats for a better tomorrow
bitcoin: 1GsfkeggHSqbcVGS3GSJnwaCu6FYwF73fR
"They must know I'm here. The half and half jug is missing" - MDC.
"I've grown weary of googling the solutions to my many problems" - MDC.
[ Parent ]
Schizophrenia sucks, sure (none / 0) (#239)
by Sgt York on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 02:56:55 AM EST

No argument from me on that one. But cancer, chronic lung disease, and hepatitis aren't exactly walks in the park.

All of them suck, and given that schizophrenia is more commonly treatable than the three I mentioned (possible exception of hepatitis), I'd say they are probably about equal. Yeah, the drugs for schizophrenia have some really bad side effects, but chemo's just as bad, if not worse.

Besides, all vices have risk. That's why in another post I said, "When chosing a vice, don't." I just wanted to point out that although there may be a risk, it is about equal to the risk involved in any vice.

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.
[ Parent ]

Gee, I'd be happy banning all of those (none / 1) (#289)
by ducksalve on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 08:07:42 PM EST

Now, alcohol and tobacco are voluntary so that isn't fair, but truck diesel isn't. Neither are 1001 other pollutants that probably 'trigger the pre-disposed' to cancer.
Gentle reader, do you believe that the Bush Regime will not shoot you down in the streets if you have a rebellion? - Paul Craig Roberts
[ Parent ]
And I know one, (me) (none / 0) (#473)
by ptraci on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 10:44:14 PM EST

I credit pot smoking with helping me to learn to live with other people.  It actually seemed to improve my ability to communicate.  I was a textbook case of Asperger's syndrome before it was widely recognized, and I'm still considered a bit odd by those who know me, but not nearly as bad as I was as a child.  It took something that made me think in a different way to help me get a better perspective on how other people think.  I still don't totally "get" other people, but I'm more comfortable in trying, and more successful with practice.  I haven't smoked in the last twenty years because I developed an allergy to it, but I don't at all regret doing it when I could.

[ Parent ]
Point number zero (2.66 / 6) (#37)
by rpresser on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 09:46:50 AM EST

Don't take life too seriously. You'll never get out of it alive.

Unpacking that a bit to get past the pun, you WILL suffer disappointments, you WILL blame yourself for them, and there's NOTHING you can do either to prevent it or prepare for it.

"In terms of both hyperbolic overreaching and eventual wrongness, the Permanent [Republican] Majority has set a new, and truly difficult to beat, standard." --rusty

This is true... (none / 0) (#38)
by internetslacker on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 10:15:34 AM EST

Besides a lobotomy, I guess. And doctors don't do that anymore on request. At least, mine doesn't.

www.internetslacker.com www.internetslacker.net www.internetslacker.org
[ Parent ]

there can be only one! (none / 0) (#70)
by tkatchevzz on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 04:54:10 PM EST

only for a while, tho

[ Parent ]
Just on the other side (2.50 / 6) (#48)
by Sgt York on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 12:20:19 PM EST

Speaking as someone on just the other side, that doesn't regret his choices:

#1 : This one is often misunderstood, I think. It's not just a factor of age or maturity of the individuals, but also the maturity of the relationship. I've known people who got married for the first time in their late 30's, and the marriages didn't last a year because neither really knew what the other wanted. It's not just your maturity, it's also the maturity of the relationship.

#2 : At first, I was going to call bullshit. Then I recalled this is addressed to guys in their early 20's. Yeah, don't have kids. Yet. If I had had my kids at 22, that would have sucked ROYALLY. But I wouldn't trade the world for the time I've spent with my them since my late 20's.

But there's something in this that needs to be stressed. It reall needs its own point. Communication. Yeah, OP says it would be a book if he went into it. Take this to heart.

They will make or break you.

#3 : Hear fucking hear. If you are about to go to college, read the last 2 paragraphs of #3 again. Then print it out. Put it by your desk and read it every time you look at a college application. Take it to college with you and read it again every time you register for classes.

#4 Heh. I'd say prepare for your own, personal collapse, and don't worry so much about civilization coming down around your ears. The former is much more likely, and you have zero control in the latter. Odds are you will be wiped out in the first wave. Unless your last name happens to be Titor.

#5 Be sure to include this one in your printout of that part of #3. Google the average consumer debt of a college graduate in the US. Recall that consumer debt does not include student loans. Try not to weep too profusely while contemplating what this means for our society, and I do mean globally.

#6 Good luck finding good, real friends. If you are very lucky, you might find three or four. If you are exceptionally lucky, one will be of your gender of preference, and you now have a spouse. Make that happen. I did, and I have never regretted it for a second. When you do find them, always remember that rarity imparts value.

#7 : I'd adjust this to "When chosing a vice, don't." Sure, MJ is pretty damn benign. But don't go looking for a vice. That's just stupid. If you feel you absolutely must have a vice, smack yourself in the head with something blunt and exercise point #9.

#8 : Yep. Dead on. Sucks, don't it?

#9 I don't agree with this one. People in power are more likely to be corrupt, but making blanket statements is stupid (yah, teh irony). Sure, always question, but remember sometimes the answer is right under your nose, and if you ask directly instead of investigating for yourself you'll just look like a confrontational idiot. Some people in authority are actually decent people, who want to help, but screw up on occasion.

Also, remember that you far too often base your respect on a single attribute or association. A person may have great advice, but you won't listen to them because ______.

One last, but very important thing to remember. Who is the final authority in your life? Who is ultimately responsible for all that you do and become? Yeah, you are. When exercising this point, recall that you, too are an authority to your own life, and should therefore be questioned at all times. Question your own policies. Make hard and fast decisions, but look for patterns in your decisions, and question the motives behind those patterns. Stiffness is a mark of death.

#10 Approach life with expectant, reverent joy. And not just as a young man. Never lose that joy. Fight to hold on to it. Spit in the face of the one that says you have to give it up. The power does not magically disappear as you blow out the candles on your 30th birthday. It only leaves when you let it go.

And I'd add #11. All things lead to who you are. Regret is for suckers. Do not regret anything you have done or failed to do. Learn, move on, and be happy that you have learned.

One last thing. For point #12, see sig.

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.

I had my kid when I was barely 21 (2.33 / 3) (#49)
by mfeltman on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 12:51:09 PM EST

and she's the best part of my life.  Sweetest, kindest little girl you'll ever meet.

So it's not universal.

But then again, this is addressed to the fuck-ups on k5, so, I guess the message should be NEVER HAVE KIDS.  EVER.


[ Parent ]

Exceptions (none / 0) (#51)
by Sgt York on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 01:05:13 PM EST

Yeah, every rule has its execptions.

Sometime in the 1930s, my grandfather was enganged. He then happened to notice my grandmother's legs when picking up a pencil he had dropped. Three months later, they were married. They're still going strong today after years of wars and strife...literally. I now look to them as a model for how to maintain a good marriage.

But if a friend of mine was about to do the same thing today, I'd chain him to a tree.

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.
[ Parent ]

Oh yeah (none / 1) (#67)
by Hugh Jass on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 04:24:35 PM EST

Who among us hasn't dropped their pencil and accidentally found themselves looking up some girl's skirt?

"In war the moral is to the physical, as three to one." - Bonaparte
[ Parent ]

I'm going to AOL #2 there. (3.00 / 2) (#53)
by ksandstr on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 02:25:46 PM EST

Communication skills are the most important thing that you can learn in this world. Ever.

More important than the professional skill that you might teach yourself, or learn in a university or the like; what does it matter if you are an absolute wizard when it comes to unfucking complicated spaghetti databases if it takes you seven minutes of erring, umming and not getting to the point to communicate a 10-second idea? Being passive-aggressive ain't going to help any either.

Of course this all requires the all too short resources of humility and patience, so I'll wager that the unwashed hordes of K5 will just go "I already know how, asshole! don't come telling me what I should learn or not! my momma always told me I was perfect already!" and inhale another slice of all-cheese pizza.

[ Parent ]

Thank you for the concise reply (none / 0) (#59)
by internetslacker on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 03:29:34 PM EST

I appreciate the time you've taken in your criticism, Sgt. York. If only kuro5hin had more people like you (and me, of course).

Number Eleven, excellent. And twelve, yup.

www.internetslacker.com www.internetslacker.net www.internetslacker.org
[ Parent ]

'Sure, MJ is pretty damn benign.' (none / 0) (#75)
by trane on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 06:15:22 PM EST


[ Parent ]
you = preacher (3.00 / 3) (#106)
by Sgt York on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 02:59:35 AM EST

me = choir

I'm with ya. MJ is certainly no worse than alcohol.

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.
[ Parent ]

-1: plain flat out sucks (2.50 / 2) (#50)
by t1ber on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 12:55:40 PM EST

The formatting is crap.

But as for the justification of the reefer, that's probably the reason why reefers don't ever succeed in getting cannibis legalized.  The clothing argument is crap (just for reference:  sisal is used in cat scratching posts, that should be your first clue something is very, very wrong), the "it's never killed anyone" is crap too.  It's killed plenty of people who have gone "joyriding".  Who cares if they have alcohol, tobacco, or pot in their system?  Impaired driving is still the stupidest idea ever.  Please kill yourself.  Under that definition, which is pretty much a standard, MJ has killed just as many people as anything else which impairs you.  Now, if you rewrite it to argue that it should be legalized under the same set of rules and same set of warnings that are out there for smoking and drinking, that is approaching the reality of responsible use.  I'll still -1 this whole thing however since it will remain a badly formatted rambling pile of crap.

And she said...
Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad
Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah
Hadji girl I can't understand what you're saying.

It's still safer (none / 0) (#163)
by salsaman on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 11:37:09 AM EST

...to drive on pot than on alcohol. Studies have shown that drunk drivers underestimate their speed and reaction times. Drivers on pot do the opposite - overestimate their speed and reaction times. Anecdotal eveidence also backs this up. The outcome is, whilst driving under the influence of any drug (legal or illegal) can be bad, you and your passengers are more likely to survive a pot-related driving accident than an alcohol related one. This study even goes so far as to suggest that stoned drivers are safer than drug-free drivers.

[ Parent ]
I have been around potheads for over 30 years... (3.00 / 2) (#170)
by mikelist on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 03:27:41 PM EST

...actually approaching 40 (I'm 52) and I've never heard of a fatal accident involving weed, that didn't also include large quantities of alcohol. Perhaps pot makes you stupid enough to drink too much.

As far as driving impairment goes, a couple of studies confirm that while it does cause impairment,  you'd have to be totally wasted to achieve the same level of driving stupidity that a moderate amount of alcohol consumption does.

And as for fatal pot overdose, you can't fit enough pot in your body at one time to get anywhere near LD50.

I still recommend that you wait until you get there to spark up.

[ Parent ]

My advice (2.00 / 3) (#64)
by Hugh Jass on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 04:15:19 PM EST

11) Never mix quaaludes and acid.

"In war the moral is to the physical, as three to one." - Bonaparte

Oh, and ... (none / 0) (#65)
by Hugh Jass on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 04:15:53 PM EST

12) Never buy a pair of pants without belt loops.

"In war the moral is to the physical, as three to one." - Bonaparte
[ Parent ]

hey now (3.00 / 2) (#69)
by tkatchevzz on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 04:51:08 PM EST

what about a stylish pair of nylon track-suit pants?

[ Parent ]
Um, I don't want to offend, but ... (none / 1) (#86)
by Hugh Jass on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 07:03:26 PM EST

I meant men's pants.

"In war the moral is to the physical, as three to one." - Bonaparte
[ Parent ]

Good advice! (none / 0) (#160)
by internetslacker on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 11:20:28 AM EST

Wish I was following it AT THIS EXACT MOMENT.

Joke. KE)@#M<LM"{#P

www.internetslacker.com www.internetslacker.net www.internetslacker.org
[ Parent ]

Agreement with most, except the vices (1.88 / 9) (#71)
by Orion Blastar Again on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 05:05:15 PM EST

Smoking a joint can make you fail drug tests when you apply for jobs. Ideally you want to have no vices at all, and maybe replace them with hobbies instead. Eating certain foods can change brain chemestry. Eating foods high in folic acid can fight chemical imbalances that cause depression, for example. One might be better off taking a multivitamin than smoke a joint. Maybe drink energy drinks instead of smoking a joint or something to keep yourself legal and allow yourself to be hired.

I have former freinds who decided their only vice was smoking a joint, only to have it ruin their careers and lead to a criminal lifestyle. High School friends of mine ended up in juvenille halls because after smoking a few joints, they thought it would be good to mug people or steal cars. If they hadn't smoked a few joints, maybe they wouldn't make those sort of bad decisions? It made them really paranoid of friends like me who didn't smoke joints, and it lead them to try to beat me up as a result. One, while under the influence of pot, drove a car off an unfinished highway ramp and broke the wall preventing cars from driving on it, and fell to his death and got crushed in his car. It can impair thinking, which is something a young person does not need.

Learn how to be a liberal.
I can't believe it's not Liberalism!
"Thanks for the pointers on using the internet. You're links to uncylopedia have turned my life around." -zenador

your mistake (3.00 / 2) (#89)
by trane on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 09:00:42 PM EST

is assuming that the drugs cause criminal behavior. Rather I urge to to consider the hypothesis that it is the prohibition of drugs that lead to illegal behavior. Consider alcohol as an example. During prohibition you had lots of corruption and criminal activity associated with drinking alcohol. But now? Not nearly as much. For example one might listen to Robert Johnson's blues recordings from the 1930s (when Prohibition was in full swing). The street life he describes in such songs as "Stop Breaking Down" no longer apply to alcohol because you don't have to commit illegal acts to get it anymore. But that song's lyrics could be used to perfectly describe the crack scene today.

Tentative conclusion: legalize crack (or pot or whatever) and the criminal and antisocial behavior associated with it would decrease dramatically.

[ Parent ]

No the solution (1.00 / 2) (#96)
by Orion Blastar Again on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 11:26:53 PM EST

is to put abusers into rehab and execute the dealers because they deal in death.

Alcohol is 100% legal, and it still causes a lot of the criminal acts out there. Drunk driving, drunk while robbing stores and banks, drunk while getting into fights, drunk while mugging people, drunk while raping, alchohol impairs thinking as do many other drugs. Making it legal just means that the assholes who abuse it are harder to get caught. Put crack, pot, cocaine, etc into drug and convience stores and it will only get worse as alchohol did.

Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde analogy, on drugs one becomes a Mr. Hyde.

Learn how to be a liberal.
I can't believe it's not Liberalism!
"Thanks for the pointers on using the internet. You're links to uncylopedia have turned my life around." -zenador

[ Parent ]

I disagree (none / 1) (#125)
by trane on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 04:12:51 PM EST

the situation with alcohol today is far better than during prohibition.

The basic thing that you have to deal with is, I want to feel better.

[ Parent ]

My solution (2.50 / 4) (#162)
by procrasti on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 11:29:43 AM EST

would be to line self rightous assholes like you who want to control what other people do with their lives against a wall and give them ample quantities of high velocity lead injections.

Your 'friends' beat you up because you are a wanker... ever consider that?

if i ever see the nickname procrasti again on this site or anywhere in my life, i want it to be in an OBITUARY -- CTS
doing my best at licking arseholes - may 2015 -- mirko
Winner of Kuro5hin: April 2015
[ Parent ]

Execute drug dealers (none / 0) (#285)
by kbudha on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 03:39:14 PM EST

Are you nuts?

Nobody's saying execute the beastiality partakers.
You should show some compensatory mercy.

[ Parent ]

Oh by the way (1.66 / 3) (#97)
by Orion Blastar Again on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 11:32:28 PM EST

legal drugs can cause a drain on the economy illicit drugs made legal will cause even more of a drain on the economy.

Learn how to be a liberal.
I can't believe it's not Liberalism!
"Thanks for the pointers on using the internet. You're links to uncylopedia have turned my life around." -zenador

[ Parent ]
Energy drinks vs. joints (3.00 / 2) (#101)
by strlen on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 02:16:07 AM EST

The effect of energy drinks vs. that of marijuana is pretty much the opposite. Also, while I myself am not a user of drugs or of marijuana, I will not apply for any job that requires me urinating, on a stranger's demand, into a cup. That is simply a matter of privacy for me -- as long as I have a choice. That's simply a matter of principle.

[T]he strongest man in the world is he who stands most alone. - Henrik Ibsen.
[ Parent ]
Well then the only jobs for you (1.33 / 3) (#104)
by Orion Blastar Again on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 02:38:57 AM EST

are those "do you want fries with that?" type minimum wage jobs. Unless you work for a law firm that has its lawyers wired on drugs and hence has no drug policy.

Learn how to be a liberal.
I can't believe it's not Liberalism!
"Thanks for the pointers on using the internet. You're links to uncylopedia have turned my life around." -zenador

[ Parent ]
Heh (3.00 / 2) (#107)
by strlen on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 03:06:31 AM EST

Then you haven't been to Silicon Valley. None of the high tech companies I even considered applying too (when I was looking for a job; now I am employed) -- for IT or engineering positions -- drug tests. Ironically, I do believe all the "McJob" type jobs do drug test (however, I've never had a job outside the tech industry, so I can't tell).

[T]he strongest man in the world is he who stands most alone. - Henrik Ibsen.
[ Parent ]
Don't apply in the mid-west then (1.33 / 3) (#118)
by Orion Blastar Again on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 01:02:16 PM EST

as minimum wage and law firm jobs are the only exceptions to drug tests. Every other job had required me to take a drug test, and I passed them.

Silicon Valley will sink into the ocean when that big Earthquake/Tsuanmi hits.

Learn how to be a liberal.
I can't believe it's not Liberalism!
"Thanks for the pointers on using the internet. You're links to uncylopedia have turned my life around." -zenador

[ Parent ]

Heh (3.00 / 2) (#143)
by strlen on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 09:55:51 PM EST

I'm in a Valley, I'm shielded from the Tsunami (can't strike that far inland). Buildings are also very earthquake proof (or at least to the extent that an earthquake won't cost me a job).

I'll also stay the hell out of Mid-West if I can help it (planning to make as much money as I can out of California then retire to some mountaneous/northwest state).

Plus, don't you do VB? The kind of shop that would use VB is the kind of shop likely to drug test in any case (and they better, since a fair amount of drugs are required for one to do VB).

[T]he strongest man in the world is he who stands most alone. - Henrik Ibsen.
[ Parent ]

You reminded me of this (none / 0) (#696)
by brain in a jar on Thu May 11, 2006 at 04:13:23 AM EST

Those Wacky Americans

By Bob the Angry Flower.

Seriously, this kind of behavior by companies is a gross invasion or privacy and human rights and needs to be fought. What you do when you aren't working is in most cases none of your employers damn business.

Life is too important, to be taken entirely seriously.
[ Parent ]

You have got to be kidding! (3.00 / 4) (#120)
by hatshepsut on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 01:27:33 PM EST

Maybe the US has come to the point of treating all its citizens like criminals, but other countries do not.

I have never heard of a job here in Canada that requires regular drug testing. The Ontario Human Rights Commission permits drug and alcohol testing under certain circumstances, but I don't know anyone who has come across this in everyday life.

[ Parent ]

Or.. (none / 1) (#145)
by strlen on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 10:43:40 PM EST

Or certain employers have that point. The "drug free workplace" and "drug free zone" laws, however, do tend to inspire employers into doing that. However, there are still plenty of jobs you can choose which do not drug test, if you have a) self-respect b) enough technical ability to be able to choose an employer.

I can see drug testing in companies where response-time is required, i.e.: emergency response, truck driving, etc... but in the tech industry, it is far more prudent to look for drug abuse (by looking at an employee's performance) rather than simply for drug use.

[T]he strongest man in the world is he who stands most alone. - Henrik Ibsen.
[ Parent ]

Doesn't work like that (none / 1) (#102)
by SoupIsGoodFood on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 02:28:41 AM EST

Many hobbies can't give you the same effect as a drug, and visa versa. Sometimes you want to get high, sometimes you want to do something exciting, sometimes you want to sit down and tinker with something...

Also, you seem to think that people only do drugs to self-medicate. Many people do, but it's not the only reason people take drugs. Even the self-medication reasons can be different. How is drinking a lot of energy drinks the same as smoking a joint or having a few shots of strong liquor after an unsually stressful day?

[ Parent ]

Placebo effect (none / 1) (#105)
by Orion Blastar Again on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 02:43:05 AM EST

if you think it makes you better, chances are psychologically it will.

That is why people do stupid things to get high like snort can of airs, smoke bananas, and other stupid shit. Drinking an energy drink makes people believe that it gets them high, but does not have the side-effects of the drugs that can fuck them up.

Only the stupid people use illicit drugs, or snort cans of air, or smoke bananas anyway.

Learn how to be a liberal.
I can't believe it's not Liberalism!
"Thanks for the pointers on using the internet. You're links to uncylopedia have turned my life around." -zenador

[ Parent ]

Oh yeah... (3.00 / 3) (#108)
by SoupIsGoodFood on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 03:27:38 AM EST

Placebo effect is so strong and predictable that we should use it instead of all medicine!

[ Parent ]
"it lead them to try to beat me up" (3.00 / 3) (#284)
by kbudha on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 03:36:03 PM EST

More reefer for everyone!

Maybe you're just a nerd and you annoyed them.

[ Parent ]

Like point three (2.00 / 3) (#81)
by Niha on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 06:46:16 PM EST

  A bit difficult, maybe, but it is a good idea to look for the point where interests meet education and good jobs. Money is important, but what you do to get it and wether it satisfies you or not counts as well.

suspected crosspost (1.25 / 8) (#82)
by Linux or Mac OS X on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 06:55:56 PM EST

full of buttsechsy-goodness.


"Ugh, my stomach is full of tequila and semen." - LilDebbie


2) Don't have a kid. (2.66 / 3) (#87)
by alphaxer0 on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 07:03:28 PM EST

is great advice given that children will ruin your life. Particularly if your a single mommy, because in their case, the party's over.

Great suggestions (2.57 / 7) (#93)
by strlen on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 10:20:40 PM EST

I think the biggest common theme is 'stop following peer pressure'. You don't need to spend $100 every week on a pair of jeans, you don't need to buy lease a car you can't afford, you don't need to marry early. The key thing is being able to withstand social 'ostracism' that goes along with doing what is actually in your own benefit rather than what is considered trendy or fashionable.

On the topic of substances, it is amazing how much the 'social image' part of it plays. Drugs like extacy and cocaine, are incredibly destructive (and I say this as an opponent of the war on drugs), yet they (along with crystal meth) are eaten by college students as if they are breakfast cereal (thanks to our favorite linkwhore for phrasing it so eloquently). I wouldn't go into the actual cognitive impairments that can also be done by excess uses drinking of alcohol (i.e.: taking shots until one pukes and/or passes out; I've got no problem with moderate drinking). Almost all of that is done out of peer pressure.

I guess the advice can be summed up in just one phrase: be prudent and ignore the idiots in your peer group.

[T]he strongest man in the world is he who stands most alone. - Henrik Ibsen.

The story isn't that great (1.66 / 3) (#103)
by SoupIsGoodFood on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 02:30:26 AM EST

but the discussions might be interesting, so +1FP.

A bolt of unadulterated logic (2.93 / 16) (#112)
by A Bore on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 09:38:10 AM EST

1) You are posting on kuro5hin
2) You are posting lifestyle advice.

From 1) and 2):
3) Your lifestyle advice, if followed, leads to posting on kuro5hin.
4) Arguably, only maladjusted, socially inept fantasists post on kuro5hin.

5) Your lifestyle advice, if followed, will probably transform you into a maladjusted, socially inept fantasist.
So it follows:
6) It should not be followed.

7) -1

Instead of the logic points (3.00 / 3) (#113)
by Psychology Sucks on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 10:02:08 AM EST

couldn't you have just said that all in a sentence or two?

[ Parent ]
krushin's potsers are manly enginyears (3.00 / 5) (#114)
by A Bore on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 10:10:32 AM EST

They dont unnerstand sentances o' the qweens englash.

[ Parent ]
yes (none / 1) (#171)
by tkatchevzz on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 04:43:22 PM EST


welcome to the 21st century where we keep things short and digestible

[ Parent ]

lol assburgers $ (3.00 / 2) (#294)
by demi on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 10:44:03 PM EST

[ Parent ]
shuddap clown (none / 0) (#165)
by kbudha on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 12:42:03 PM EST

Dude had great advice.

[ Parent ]
Umm... Haven't you just defeated your own argment? (3.00 / 2) (#242)
by the scooter king on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 03:54:13 AM EST

... by posting here?
The secret is not to try and bend the .sig. The secret is that there is no .sig.
[ Parent ]
Dont wait too long to have a kid either... (2.12 / 8) (#121)
by claes on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 01:35:11 PM EST

or you'll have to go through endless humiliating physical examinations, have your entire sex life scheduled, and then perhaps still not have your own kid. This is a truly miserable situation.

It's most a function of the female's age, but when she reaches 30, the chances start to go down. Plus there's the issue of age difference -- do you really want to be raising a teen-ager when you're 62?

So think it over.

-- claes (a parent)

IAWTP (none / 1) (#150)
by tetsuwan on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 03:26:57 AM EST

I am really keen on impregnating my gf within a couple of years. I won't make it to dad before 30, but hopefully before 31. She'd be 25 then, a good age.

Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
[ Parent ]

You could go a couple of more years... (1.50 / 2) (#154)
by claes on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 09:34:06 AM EST

my son was born when I was 34. He's 12 now, and I still have enough energy to keep up with him. Barely.

If your wife's[1] on the pill, it may take a while for the hormones to get out of her system.

Good luck. It's a hell of an adventure.

-- claes

[1] Call me old fashoned, but I think you should consider getting married before having kids. Being a parent is hard, you need all the help you can get, not distain from people with conservative morals. But that's personal choice.

[ Parent ]

Actually we have along way to go (2.00 / 2) (#155)
by tetsuwan on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 10:36:21 AM EST

Marriage is not really an issue here - people do it, but nonmarried couples are usually equally respected by their families. My actually quite christian sister didn't get married until her first-born was one year old. She and her husband started "mission: get baby" only about 3 months after they met.

So while I'm probably getting married, it has little practical importance except taxation.

Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
[ Parent ]

An alternative (none / 0) (#276)
by Eccles on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 10:13:46 AM EST

My sometimes ultra-Orthodox Jew brother-in-law got married by a rabbi, but never filled out a marriage license. It made the divorce much easier. If you both work decent-paying jobs, don't get legally married. Taxes are higher, eligibility for various shelters is less.

[ Parent ]
I'm not American (none / 0) (#278)
by tetsuwan on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 10:42:38 AM EST

Where I live we have cohabitation laws that are half way to marriage. But marriage is a tax break, even if both parties have good jobs.

Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
[ Parent ]

Thats cool. (1.50 / 2) (#282)
by The Diary Section on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 02:48:58 PM EST

If you know where women can be found that do want children before they are 35, please let me know.
It Is Becoming An Issue.
Spend 10 minutes in the company of an American and you end up feeling like a Keats or a Shelley: Thin, brilliant, suave, and desperate for industrial-scale quantities of opium.
[ Parent ]
lol (none / 0) (#290)
by tetsuwan on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 08:23:48 PM EST

and you are, like 40? My gal is 22. If things work out, she'll be a mother before 26. That's a promise.

Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
[ Parent ]

29. (1.50 / 2) (#291)
by The Diary Section on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 08:55:31 PM EST

I was serious before, albeit a bit drunk. I've sobered up now heh. I dunno man, you don't know how lucky you are. Last serious relationship I had, I vaguely mentioned it and she went apeshit (how dare you plan to deprive me of my figure and my career etc etc why do you hate me etc etc). And once you know that... its not in itself a deal breaker but it makes things feel a bit doomed. I know very people with kids under 30, and those who have are the sort that they've been together since they were 15 or something.

Old stereotypes are pretty reversed it seems. Time was chaps feared their partner's ticking biological clock, these days its the other way round. Depends what circles you move in though I guess. The Chavs are still banging them out ASAP to get on the council housing list obviously.
Spend 10 minutes in the company of an American and you end up feeling like a Keats or a Shelley: Thin, brilliant, suave, and desperate for industrial-scale quantities of opium.
[ Parent ]

ditto in a month (none / 1) (#292)
by tetsuwan on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 09:07:01 PM EST

yeah, I know. I'm not sure what will come about with my girlfriend, but at least she was flattered when I said I wanted her kids. And I could even jokingly said that I should knock her up to get her off the fags.

But I totally know what you mean otherwise. Sweden is as bad, fathers are catching up and taking more responsibility, but the women haven't really updated their dating behavior. The haven't got it into their thick skulls that it's not when/if you get kids that matters the most, it's who you get kids with! If they find someone supportive they'll do great, but all women under 30 seem to want "outlaw bikers" these days. Sigh.

Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
[ Parent ]

A man with good genes, and a man who is a provider (none / 1) (#698)
by nlscb on Sun May 14, 2006 at 10:58:54 PM EST

ARE NOT NECESSARILY THE SAME MAN. The Scandanvian Welfare state is primarily a tool to distort the sex markets in women's favor. Usually, if a woman wants a man to support her offspring, she has to respond in kind by bearing his offspring exclusively. That's the deal. She may want aggressive genes, but aggressive genes don't go to work everyday for 30 years and change diapers. But with social welfare, suddenly she can steal a little slice off of millions of mens' incomes so that she doesn't need that support from one man. One girl does this, no sweat. But when 300,000 do it, suddenly you notice. The money that these other men need to get a mate is stripped from them, so a few men can impregnate a majority of the women - just as they would want. Yes, you get free healthcare and education and old age support, etc ... this is mostly a ruse to distract you from the truth.

Sweden isn't even the worst for this. The real point of the Danish "Love Bridge", where, as I suspect you know, Danes who marry foreigners may not reside with their spouse in Denmark, is to punish those men (I mean, common, how many Danish women do you think this affects) who decide to look elsewhere and dedicate their resources where the Danish taxman can't get to them. My Danish teacher once told me how in her daughters 1997 kindergarten class, 1 child of 20 was raised by both biological parents. That's not the normal rate of failed marriages.

Most women in the world and in a pretty lousy place. Scandanavian women are not among them.

Comment Search has returned - Like a beaten wife, I am pathetically grateful. - mr strange
[ Parent ]

You claim to disagree with me (none / 1) (#699)
by tetsuwan on Thu May 18, 2006 at 03:18:00 PM EST

Yet you do agree.

In Sweden, the vast majority of children are raised with their biological parents and shared (50/50) custody is becoming the most common settlement after divorce. Some men have 5-10 kids with different women, but in my experience, these are not very common. These type of guys usually don't get kids again after abandoning their first set of kids. Birth control is simple and used by almost all. It is a statistical truth in Sweden that people get approximately as many kids as they can "afford". But rich men still get many more kids than rich women.

My point regarding dating behavior is that too many women get men that are charming and exciting for a year and unsupportive and egoistic the next 30. Then they divorce and rethink when it's too late. What does "want aggressive genes" mean? It just means that they have fooled themselves. It doesn't bother me if they have sex with the idiots, as long as they don't have kids with them. The wonderful thing today is that having kids is more often than not a deliberate choice.

And women who think that they are too young to have children when 30 years old are also strange in my book.

Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
[ Parent ]

Welfare's purpose is to distort the sex market (none / 1) (#700)
by nlscb on Thu May 18, 2006 at 10:12:49 PM EST

in favor of women. Those guys have 5-10 different kids with different women are EXACTLY the ones that I am talking about. When you pay your 60% income taxes, it's those kids mouths that you get to feed with your hard work.

Now, some of them may only have 2 or 3 with different women, but in the end you are the one picking up the bill as a Swedish tax payer.

All that stuff about helping the handicap and refugees is just propoganda to blind you.

Comment Search has returned - Like a beaten wife, I am pathetically grateful. - mr strange
[ Parent ]

You are deluded (none / 0) (#701)
by tetsuwan on Fri May 19, 2006 at 03:17:07 AM EST

Do you know what you are talking about or are you just talking out of your ass? There's no evidence to support your argument and really no logic either. Swedish men have to pay child support too.

Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
[ Parent ]

Really, they pay the entire cost of education (none / 1) (#702)
by nlscb on Fri May 19, 2006 at 08:23:01 AM EST

welfare, - not to mention the literal cash handouts to Swedish mothers for doing nothing more than breed? The biological fathers pick up the entire tab for that? Especially if they have more than 2 kids? I really doubt that.

They find clever ways hide it right in front of your eyes, but this is what is going on.

Comment Search has returned - Like a beaten wife, I am pathetically grateful. - mr strange
[ Parent ]

And Travel! (2.50 / 4) (#123)
by captainmish on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 03:26:47 PM EST

With no money. And false papers. Having a militant israeli teenager sticking his finger up your arse at ben gurion airport because you havent shaved and look like a suicide bomber makes for some deep and brutal soul searcing.

Don't be a programmer (2.57 / 7) (#131)
by speek on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 05:16:48 PM EST

You'll spend your life tweaking someone else's requirements.

al queda is kicking themsleves for not knowing about the levees

Rephrase that (3.00 / 2) (#147)
by strlen on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 12:34:18 AM EST

"Don't become a software engineer if you think a software engineer and a programmer are simply synonymous (and if believe that by being a software engineer you'll never have to interact with people, write legible English or communicate with non-technical persons)."

By all means do become a software engineer, if this is what you want to do, just realize that as a software engineer you will not spend 100% of your time programming.

I think some of the most miserable people are those who become programmers/software engineers just because they enjoy "tinkering" with computers. However, they are still not as miserable as those who do it simply for the money (and luckily, most of those have left the field after the dot-bomb and went back to law school).

[T]he strongest man in the world is he who stands most alone. - Henrik Ibsen.
[ Parent ]

Software Engineer == Programmer (3.00 / 3) (#156)
by lukme on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 10:47:15 AM EST

When I worked as a programmer, my job duties/description were idetical as when I worked as a software engineer. Didn't see any difference, other than title.

I have alway enjoyed creating software, never enjoyed working for people who thought they knew more than anyone else simply because they were the boss.

It's awfully hard to fly with eagles when you're a turkey.
[ Parent ]
Job titles vs. reality (2.50 / 2) (#164)
by strlen on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 11:56:39 AM EST

Sure, you may have had a different job title, but when employed as a programmer you acted as a software engineer (or acted as a programmer when you were employed as a software engineer). The difference, of course, being is that a programmer is the strawman conception of someone who just codes while software engineer likely spends a significant portion of their time doing other things (such as straightening out the requirements with the customers, testing their software, so forth).

[T]he strongest man in the world is he who stands most alone. - Henrik Ibsen.
[ Parent ]
I don't agree about pot (1.75 / 4) (#139)
by Big Sexxy Joe on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 06:19:15 PM EST

Most pot users a know are losers.

I'm like Jesus, only better.
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free grassroots news hour
Most drinkers I know are fucking idiots n/t (none / 1) (#174)
by der on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 05:36:32 PM EST

[ Parent ]
You've got it back to front (2.00 / 5) (#153)
by nairobiny on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 08:13:57 AM EST

The problem isn't wasted power, it's wasted opportunity. When you're young, you can do anything. Unfortunately, you're often saddled with an immature brain and an aching dick so you fail to take advantage of the opportunities you are presented - you don't study hard at school, you don't invest properly in meaningful relationships; instead you get blasted on alcohol and drugs, you drift from one thing to another, you find yourself in crappy relationships and you let it all slip away.

It's unlikely that someone on their deathbed will wish that they had smoked more pot. But they may wish they had listened to their parents, never smoked, said please and thank you, been nicer to others, told their spouse and children more often that they loved them, invested rather than spent, etc. etc.

Having said all that, point 5 is a keeper.

An anecdote as counterpoint. (none / 1) (#674)
by Kadin2048 on Tue May 09, 2006 at 05:31:01 PM EST

While I agree with your general point, I know a lot of older people who are deeply resentful over "selfish" opportunities that they passed up and wished they had taken advantage of.

For example, a while back when I was younger, an uncle of mine, who had just recently been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer (of the particularly fast-moving kind), gave me his version of this article. I call it the "Hard-won Advice Speech." I'm not trying to be disrespectful in saying that, but it's something that pretty much everybody of a certain age could probably give.

Many of his major regrets were things that he had passed up in his youth because he was so future-focused that he never went for the immediate gratification. I'm going to paraphrase here, but the line that sticks in my mind was something like this:

"When I was 35, and just out of the Army, I almost bought a Corvette. I had enough money to do it, all in cash, and I'd been lusting after one since I was 15. But the woman I was married to went ballistic, told me it was irresponsible. In the end, I didn't buy the Corvette. I put the money in the bank. Two years later I got divorced, and the woman took most of my money anyway. I never had the opportunity again. So if you ever get the chance to do something for yourself, whatever your 'Corvette' is, do yourself a favor and buy the fucking Corvette."

I'm sure there are a lot of people who go to their deaths wishing that they had drank/smoked less, done more community service, gone to Church more often, etc. But I know of at least one person who ended up in a hole in the ground, and as far as I know, his greatest regret was not doing something for himself. I suspect that if you went around a nursing home, there are probably quite a few people like that.

I'm not contradicting you completely, I'm just saying that there's a balance somewhere, between denying yourself for the good of others / the future / being a 'better person,' and giving yourself something you want when you have the means to do so, and the hell with what other people think.

I suppose it's a rare thing though, to not regret something when you're looking death in the face eventually.

[ Parent ]

My addition: Keep a journal (2.25 / 4) (#157)
by lukme on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 10:51:09 AM EST

There will be many incredible/interesting times in your life, that you will wish to remember better, as well as you kids would like to know (probably after you are gone).

It's awfully hard to fly with eagles when you're a turkey.
Some great advice in the comments... (2.50 / 1) (#161)
by internetslacker on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 11:28:34 AM EST

A big thank you to everyone who have made helpful comments; there's just as much helpful advice in the comments as there is in my article, if not more! And the personal viewpoints and constructive criticism make this a very informative read.

I consider this no longer my submission, but everyone on kuro5hin who has taken the time to give their advice. Hopefully a few young guys reading this article will avoid some grief. Or at the very least, avoid a "woman" like my ex-wife. Kee-rist.

www.internetslacker.com www.internetslacker.net www.internetslacker.org

My addition (none / 0) (#176)
by Eccles on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 08:01:28 PM EST

"If you do, don't tell me about it" is a really stupid idea.

+1 +1 +1 Best Article Evar (1.50 / 2) (#238)
by A synx on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 01:39:06 AM EST

The only problem with it was your modesty in thinking that your advice isn't good enough for girls.  It would be so much nicer if everyone took your advice!

Fashion considered wholesome (to a point) (3.00 / 11) (#241)
by klash on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 03:04:32 AM EST

Fashion? Fuck it. I wear jeans and a t-shirt... a BLANK t-shirt. If someone is interested in me only for money or trendy clothes or possessions, I could give a rat's plague-infested dripping anal sphincter about their personal welfare.

I can see where you're coming from, but I think you're going too far. There's no reason to be a slave to the latest trend, but the clothes you wear DO mean something, even to non-shallow people. They speak to how you feel, how you take care of yourself, how well you know your body, and your sense of style. Those things are attractive.

Can you appreciate a nicely decorated, well-kept apartment over one that's thrown together and has no character? Or (to put a geeky spin on it) can you appreciate a nice wallpaper and color scheme on a computer's desktop? It's the same thing. Aesthetically pleasing things have a charm to them, and the things that you find aesthetically pleasing are a big part of who you are.

For example, think about how different the aesthetic preferences are between a leather-clad motorcycle dude and a polo-clad golfer. Those differences extend way beyond what they happen to be wearing. Your jeans and plain white T-shirt say that you don't care about style, which is fine, but I don't think it's fair to deride those who do.

Without an appreciation for style, life would degrade into a drab whitewash where everything was purely functional. Would you like to see architects, designers, and artists all replaced with engineers who optimize only for utility? Where everyone wore the same clothes -- clothes that had been perfectly optimized for durability, comfort, warmth, and fit, without regard for how they look? Where people wore these same clothes regardless of occasion: to weddings, sports games, to work?

I say all this only because I used to think like you, but I've come around on this point.

Wise words $ (none / 0) (#280)
by Power Ranger on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 11:09:38 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Fashion is Communication (3.00 / 5) (#243)
by ultimai on Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 04:04:21 AM EST

Fashion is another form of communication.  The communication of the first-impression / first-look. What you decide to wear is what you decide to communicate to the people around you.

I'm not saying the author's style is bad or anything. It's actually a very good style. It communicates and filters what he wants.

But don't necessarily dissmiss fashion as a whole.  Be cautious although of the $300 BAPE t-shirt that costs at most $3-$7 to create.  In india, you can get armani exchange shirts (very good quality shirts) for $6 while in USA they're something obscene. That's the (marketing) bullshit I suggest and probably what the author was suggesting too.

living together and marriage (none / 0) (#303)
by orabidoo on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 02:43:13 PM EST

Many people have answered the part about choosing a vice.  But the
part about marriage specially got me thinking about the order in
which we take the steps between "liking someone" and "having kids
with them".

LIVED TOGETHER FOR YEARS.  Going back a bit, let me try to explain
the rationale for this.

In traditional societies, the individual comes well after the
collective: family, tribe, etc.  Thus marriages are mostly arranged,
your bride(groom) is chosen by the elders.  You get into marriage
knowing that you had little to no say in the choice, and that it's
not going to be easy, so you know you'll have to put a lot of work
to make it work.   So first society and your parents get involved.
Then you get married and have sex, and kids.  Then you actually get
to know each other, and see how the relationship goes.  The flow
goes from the outside to the inside; the very last thing you may
achieve, long after marriage, is a solid intimate relationship.

And if it doesn't go so well, divorce is generally frowned upon, so
the tried and true escape is to have secret, "illicit"
relationships.  I put illicit between quotes because those seem to
actually be quite well tolerated, as long as no-one talks about them
openly.  The same solution applies for unmarried people, who cannot
have sex openly.

It seems fair to say that modern western society no longer fits this
description.  For us, a relationship is first and foremost between
two people.  First you get to know and like each other, then you
have sex; later you tell your friends and relatives; and only much
later, after much planning, you tell the state, society at large,
and your deity of choice, by getting married.  So in this case the
flow goes from inside to outside; it starts with flickering feelings
of being in love, and ends in long-term planning.

The failure mode is also different; at least in the ideal state,
there is no room for hypocrisy in this model.  You're together
because you want to, so if you stop wanting, then you just stop
being together.  I'm just outlining things; I'm not at all denying
that break-ups are generally messy and emotionally wrecking.  The
point is that relationships are no longer "forever", but "as long as
we wish and are able to make it work".

The point of all this rambling is not at all to defend the modern
model over the traditional one, or the other way around.  I'm
assuming that you're with me in following the modern model; if
you've ever had sex without being married, or if you would, then
you're with me.

My point is this: if you're going to follow the modern model, do it
consistently.  The whole idea of this model is that you try things
ONE STEP AT A TIME, slowly going from the personal and intimate, to
involving other parts of society in your relationship.

Now, let's look at three events.  First, the point of starting to
live together.  This requires maturity in the relationship; it may
take years to feel that it's the right time and that you're ready
for it.  But at this point the relationship is still confirming
itself; you don't know in advance what it will be like to live with
this person, over time.  This arrangement has an economic side too,
but it generally only involves your personal economies in a time
scale of months to a few years (i.e splitting rent).

Second, let's look at marriage as a celebration in which you involve
your friends, families, acquaintances, village, etc.  At this point
you're telling all of these people that this is "serious", and that
they should consider your partner whenever they think of you.  If
you're religious, this is also the time when you're putting God (or
Vishnu, or Guru Padmasambhava, or your deity of choice) as a witness
of your union.  Which doesn't mean it's "forever", since that is
ruled out in this model; it just means that you're really honest and
quite sure about it.

Thirdly, there is the point where you sign marriage papers, which is
a way of telling your government that, for tax and all purposes, you
are a economic unit.  This is where the failure mode for the unit
becomes really complicated, with the need for legal divorce, and
long-term consequences like alimony.

It seems really obvious to me that, described in this way, these
three events are a logical progression from the most individual to
the most external, and that there is a world of difference in
commitment between the first and the second.

Which means that getting married before you live together is just a
holdover from the traditional model, and makes no more sense than
getting married before you have sex.

For extra "modernity" points, I'd advocate doing a "social marriage"
type of ceremony, without signing the legal papers, whenever you
feel that it's the right time for that.  At some point later, the
time may come when you actually want to be legally tied, and/or have

Just to expand... (none / 0) (#472)
by Eccles on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 09:54:15 PM EST

The reason for the change isn't just modern vs. ancient thinking, it's modern vs. ancient living styles. Marriage traditionally was a union between families, not between individuals, as extended families would live and work together all their lives. In contrast, I live 10 miles from my parents, ~1000 miles from my in-laws.

[ Parent ]
Bad advice to me. (none / 1) (#471)
by firefox on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 01:21:13 PM EST

Of coarse, I come from a ridiculously poor background, and spent my entire early life studying philosophy, history, biology, and myself. Your advice seems WAY too "yuppie" though. Sure there is some decent, although obvious stuff in there, and I'm mostly taking issue with the marriage/children bit, it just seems designed for malevolent subversion though.

You have your entire BASIS of life as happiness I can tell, but who's to say THAT is wise, or that YOU won't deeply regret that tact whence you are an octagenarian? I've only ever gotten bad things by following happiness, I now follow my DNA and my plans for the future and things actually WORK. And that involves being mature, often unhappy and burdened, but stocked with children, wealthy and powerful, a real man.

Just a different perspective, perhaps less nihilistic.

hahahah (none / 0) (#660)
by Comrade Wonderful on Mon May 08, 2006 at 11:08:13 AM EST

Advice on how to be a real man from K5. Fucking great.

[ Parent ]
i'd rather support the beer companies (none / 0) (#486)
by GotoHospital on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 03:42:17 PM EST

than support criminals.

"Domestically produced marijuana is also available in New Hampshire, though not as readily in recent years."
nested¢ evolution is still interesting. talk.origins faq.
good adice (none / 0) (#561)
by noOo on Thu May 04, 2006 at 02:07:36 PM EST

but pot > brain cells

Weed head (none / 1) (#697)
by The Real Lord Kano on Fri May 12, 2006 at 03:14:09 AM EST

All drug users fall into this type of thinking.

Potheads say "Well, at least I'm not an alcoholic."
Alcoholics say "Well, at least I don't use cocaine."
Cocaine sniffers say "Well, at least I don't use heroin."
Heroin junkies say "Well, I sniff it but at least I don't shoot up."
Really bad junkies say "Yeah, I shoot up but at least I don't smoke crack."
Crackheads say "Yeah, but at least I don't pop pills."
Pill poppers say "Well, at least I don't smoke dope. I use medicines to get high."

The fact is that all of it is bad for you, some in any amount and others only if taken in excess.

When I was younger, I used to smoke weed. It was fun; but when it stopped being fun, I stopped smoking it.

Some people can't handle intoxicants. I'll be the first to admit that I can be an annoying drunk, but I'm never an angry or a hostile drunk.

Weed is not harmless. I know people who have willingly passed up on higher paying jobs because a pre-employment drug test was a part of the package. That's lunacy.

I think that better advice is "Don't let your vices control your life."


Holy ...! Over 700 comments! (none / 0) (#703)
by internetslacker on Thu Jul 06, 2006 at 03:49:31 PM EST

Geez, do I get a kuro5hin Oscar award or something?

www.internetslacker.com www.internetslacker.net www.internetslacker.org

My Advice For The Young Guys, or, Here's Hoping You Don't Screw Up Like I Did | 703 comments (649 topical, 54 editorial, 14 hidden)
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