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[P]
Perversion of Justice

By balsamic vinigga in Op-Ed
Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 03:58:18 AM EST
Tags: Pedophelia, Rape, Justice, Perverts, Entrapment, Stings, Public Humiliation (all tags)

There is an organization called Perverted Justice that works to expose, deter, humiliate and in some cases convict would-be child-molestors who use the internet to seek out sex with minors. For the most part, such an organization is a good thing for society if done right, but I have a few criticisms about how they operate. I'm concerned that their moral crusade is inhibiting their ability to be as fair and reasonable as they ought to. I hope this story can be used by anybody who wants to discuss such an operation and improve its modus operandi.


And now for the complaints:

1. They create fake Yahoo! profiles of underage adolescents complete with the unauthorized use of photographs of children.

A person's face is very important to them. Everybody's face is a unique snowflake and very much a key part of their identity. As such, Perverted Justice steals the identity of real life children and impersonates them in their moral crusade to trap and expose would-be child molestors. I know I would be horrified if my childhood photo or the photo of somebody I cared about was used in such a way. I call upon Perverted Justice to clean up in this regard.

2. They claim that they're interested in getting help to people who solicit sex from children yet they actually further society's demonization, alienation, and cruelty towards innocent pedophiles.

One way in which they do this is by misusing the word "pedophilia". A pedophile is simply a person whom is sexually attracted to pre-pubescent or early-pubescent children. It does NOT however mean somebody is a sex-offender, nor does it mean such a person has a record of, or an intent to break any statutory rape laws.

If they are really understanding of a pedophile's condition they woludn't propagate mainstream society's use of this term to describe sex-offenders. It isn't a crime to think kids are sexy, it's only a crime to act on such thoughts. Let's welcome innocent pedohpiles with open arms to the human race, and give them due credit for controlling the impulses of their fetish. They are morally no better or worse than you and me, if anything they've had their morals tested in such a way that we have not. Kudos!

To drive the point home, in most US states 17 year old women with full physical maturity are just as much jailbait as a 12 year old girl. And yet the vast majority of 20-something and 30-something males are sexually attracted to 17 year old women. However, such an attraction doesn't make them criminals, nor does it mean they'd commit a crime if given enough temptation. If we can extend trust and understanding to men unencumbered by abnormal sexual fetishes, why can't we do the same for pedophiles?

I call upon Perverted Justice to stop demonizing innocent pedophiles with their insensitive misuse of the word pedophelia. They're in a position to help all people cope with unwanted lust for children, pedophiles themselves as well as society as a whole.

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Poll
I wanted to bone Hilary Duff while watching:
o Lizzie McGuire Season 1 (Age 14) 33%
o Lizzie McGuire Season 2 (Age 15) 27%
o Cheaper by the Dozen (Age 16) 36%
o A Cinderalla Story/Raise Your Voice/In Search of Santa (Age 17) 31%
o A Perfect Man/Cheaper by the Dozen 2 (Age 18) 28%
o No she needs to be older than 18 (Liar) 7%
o I'm not attracted to women 10%
o I'm attracted to women but Hilary Duff just ain't my type and never will be. 48%

Votes: 83
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o Yahoo
o Perverted Justice
o Also by balsamic vinigga


Display: Sort:
Perversion of Justice | 250 comments (236 topical, 14 editorial, 5 hidden)
Solution (2.50 / 6) (#1)
by trane on Sat Jul 29, 2006 at 07:23:33 PM EST

ignore all cunts.

Like, there is this fucking high school cheerleader camp going on on the fields where i got my exercise conditioning class. The other day i was standing in the hallway in the old gym building waiting for class to start and like 100 of these high school freshman girls in frilly cheerleader uniforms come trooping in through the door right fucking past me. IT WAS HORRIBLE. I just looked at their feet. Fuck them. I don't need em. Let em all go to hell for all i care.

The thing i like about highschool girls is (2.50 / 6) (#4)
by balsamic vinigga on Sat Jul 29, 2006 at 07:34:42 PM EST

no matter how old i get, they always stay the same age.

---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!
[ Parent ]
Please give... (3.00 / 2) (#5)
by BJH on Sat Jul 29, 2006 at 08:18:59 PM EST

...appropriate attributions for your plagiary.
--
Roses are red, violets are blue.
I'm schizophrenic, and so am I.
-- Oscar Levant

[ Parent ]
Google says Dazed and Confused (1.50 / 2) (#7)
by balsamic vinigga on Sat Jul 29, 2006 at 08:24:55 PM EST

apparently i heard it and filed it away subconciously and it resurfaced itself disguised as original content.

I havn't seen dazed and confused since like '94.

---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!
[ Parent ]

Well then... (none / 1) (#252)
by ParadisePete on Sat Aug 05, 2006 at 09:29:24 PM EST

...it wouldn't be plagiary then, would it.

[ Parent ]
Somehow... (2.80 / 5) (#6)
by BJH on Sat Jul 29, 2006 at 08:19:26 PM EST

...I didn't even need to look to know that comment was from you, trane.
--
Roses are red, violets are blue.
I'm schizophrenic, and so am I.
-- Oscar Levant

[ Parent ]
just look at the rating, these days (2.00 / 1) (#8)
by trane on Sat Jul 29, 2006 at 08:56:44 PM EST

like i give a flying fuck about ratings hehe.

[ Parent ]
There are 2 options for you. (3.00 / 2) (#48)
by norm on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 04:18:57 PM EST

A) Fucked in the head
B) Bad Troll

Which is it?

i'm a guy. i'm a troll. there, i've said it. --wampswillion | scientology
[ Parent ]

You say that like they're mutually exclusive (3.00 / 8) (#57)
by The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 06:03:04 PM EST



___
I'm a pompous windbag, I take myself far too seriously, and I single-handedly messed up K5 by causing the fiction section to be created. --localroger

[ Parent ]
either way (3.00 / 1) (#79)
by trane on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 11:14:48 PM EST

can i get my disability approval now?

[ Parent ]
+1 fp (2.76 / 21) (#2)
by desu6 on Sat Jul 29, 2006 at 07:30:33 PM EST

as a paedophile i'm sick of being persecuted. the day i rape a child you can haul me in, but until that happens--and that will never happen--i am no criminal nor will i tolerate being treated as one. in fact i am a better human being than you, because i dont judge others based on sexual fetishes they've never acted upon in their lives. you, society as a whole, do.

the time when thought itself is a crime is already here, and that crime is natural, biological sexual attraction. since when is attraction equal to rape? how many men are attracted to women and yet never rape them? why should someone who is attracted to a child rape one? there is no difference, my friends, and until you realise that it's YOU who are the monsters.

well said! $ (3.00 / 1) (#3)
by balsamic vinigga on Sat Jul 29, 2006 at 07:34:16 PM EST



---
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[ Parent ]
Convicted (1.00 / 3) (#70)
by Xptic on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 09:47:38 PM EST

I don't think thought is a crime.  I've dreamed of doing all kinds of things (legal and illegal) that I'd never do.  Furthermore, talking about a criminal act is not a crime.  You should be allowed to sketch, write, and speak about whatever you want.

However, there are some crimes that society should not have to deal with.  When someone is convicted of murder or rape (especially child rape), he or she should be removed.  Permenantly.  No second chances.  No attempt at reconditioning the person.

Throw them in a SuperMax prison.  Small cell for 23 and a half hours per day.

There should not be a problem with convicted sex offenders walking the street.  Because there should be no convicted sex offenders walking the street.

And, as for the 30yo guys attracted to 17yo girls:  tough shit!  18 is (or should be) the law.  The law exists to protect girls from being taken advantage of in a one-sided relationship.  Keep your dick in your pants and keep the hot babysitter at least an arm's length away.  If you don't agree with the law, then propose a change and vote.

[ Parent ]

equating rape with murder is absurd (1.50 / 2) (#74)
by desu6 on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 11:09:35 PM EST

the most valuable thing a person has, in many ways the only thing a person has, is their life. there is obviously no worse thing you can do to a person than to end their life, meaning they no longer have anything, can do, feel or think anything, ever again. the only thing that could come close to killing someone is torturing someone indefinitely until they die.

and rape is nothing like that. rape victims go on to lead their lives. they experience happiness, probably often a lot of happiness. maybe it impacts on them negatively, maybe they have a lot of issues beause of it, or you know, maybe they don't. but at the end of the day the rape victim will turn 40, or 60, or 80, and she's lived decades of her life between then and now.

there are far more vicious things a person can do that are far more emotionally scarring than rape and yet our society does almost nothing about, e.g. abusive parenting, long term bullying, virtually any systematic abuse. rape is "worse" because it's sexual, but that's about all there is to it. in reality, rape is a pretty severe crime, but putting it even remotely close to murder is sensationalist and stupid.

[ Parent ]

Crimes Against Persons (2.00 / 1) (#95)
by Xptic on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 01:34:01 AM EST

Anyone who commits a criminal act against a person should be punished.  Severly.  If the act committed was violent (rape, battery, murder), then the punishment should be very severe.

[ Parent ]
i agree (none / 0) (#104)
by desu6 on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 09:08:25 AM EST

but murder is still incomparable to raping someone or beating them up.

[ Parent ]
Changed (2.00 / 1) (#106)
by Xptic on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 09:45:44 AM EST

You are in a bar and you bump into a guy.  You apoligize, but he decides to hit you.  Your life has now changed forever.  You'll never feel safe.  You'll know that some drunk asshole can stomp your ass with little or no reprecussions.

You are a woman leaving work.  You get raped in the parking lot.  Your life has now changed forever.  You'll always be looking over your shoulder.  Every relationship you have from that point forward will be different.  From the rape till the day you die, every day will be tinted with the echoes of what happened.

It may not be the literal taking of a life, but the criminal has done damage that can never be undone.  Ever.  The criminal's life should reflect that change.

[ Parent ]

someone calling you fat in the middle of a crowd (2.50 / 2) (#107)
by desu6 on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 10:03:35 AM EST

could make you feel insecure forever and live the rest of your life as a recluse. same punishment?

[ Parent ]
Apparently... (none / 0) (#161)
by ViLlAnElLe on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 06:03:19 PM EST

...you have been scarred somehow and your perpetrator went unpunished. Perhaps you have thought of killing this person and are weighing the two, your humiliation for a life, and have come to the conclusion that you were a sniveling wimp for being so profoundly affected and having lost years of your miserable life to the devotion of revenge. You are pathetic. Go rape someone. Maybe you'll feel better.

[ Parent ]
did you mean to reply to me? (none / 0) (#163)
by desu6 on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 06:05:48 PM EST

either you're totally wacked out or you're trying to reply to the other guy.

[ Parent ]
Hmm... (none / 1) (#165)
by ViLlAnElLe on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 06:25:25 PM EST

How about I am totally serious and talking to you at the same time? Fundamentally I agree with your initial statement about murder vs. rape in terms of punishment. It is a testament to our sexually puritannical culture that the chastity of a woman should be so guarded. I assume you were speaking primarily of women. Perhaps a great deal of the potential scarring from rape is a direct result of subconscious cultural teaching about sex. Sex that isn't consentual is viewed with a great deal of shame. Perhaps you were trying to make a point about the relative disparity between rape and murder with your example about someone yelling, "fatso!" in a crowd. If so, your point is taken.

I also am aware that the muck of moral and ethical issues lies in gray and is, therefore, difficult to discuss without much thoughtful and receptive debate. Your reluctance to give a rape victim any more sympathy than you would give a person who was haggled in a crowd could very well be indicative of the presence of some resentment. I wonder if you aren't carrying around something that makes it impossible for you to identify with someone who had a normally intimate and pleasurable activity shared between two individuals of relative trust forced upon her violently.

There are many things I have not experienced and do not understand. For instance, I would not be so bold as to go about saying that those inhabit a war zone should just suck it up. This rape scenerio seems to be one of which you nothing. Show some grace and censor the evidence of your obvious ignorance.

[ Parent ]

i thought it was clear (2.50 / 1) (#166)
by desu6 on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 06:31:38 PM EST

the other dude claimed violence and rape were so bad (comparable to murder evidently) because they scarred someone for life. so you punish them not just for the transient act but for the long lasting psychological damage. my point was that if you're locking people up in this way because they made a woman "afraid to go outside", isn't psychological damage WITHOUT violence then at least almost as serious? sure there wasnt violence, but the long lasting effects are still there. i think it's absurd to say someone should be jailed for a long time for calling someone fat, and i think most people would agree with this.

so in summary, i was not equating the severity of rape with verbal abuse. i was saying that placing too mcuh weight on 'emotional scarring' when determining punishments for crimes is hypocritical because there are so many acts of (as in my example) verbal abuse that do precisely this sort fo harm or worse, and yet are barely punished or not punished at all. the other guy was trying to kick up rape/violence next to murder by using this aspect of them, but in the contexts of non-violent abuse it doesn't make sense.

[ Parent ]

I see... (2.50 / 2) (#168)
by ViLlAnElLe on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 06:43:24 PM EST

what you are saying. And will reiterate that I think that the long-term emotional scarring holds more of its roots in societal pressures and influences, though I have to be careful there also. It can be far too easy to generalize about society and groups of people having unmeasurable intent and consequence.
Surely this is why people devote their entire lives to the pursuit of philosophical truths. Justice, punishment; such overwhelming themes to be addressed in such a relatively short lifespan.

[ Parent ]
"the day i rape a child..." (none / 1) (#159)
by zenofchai on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 05:59:03 PM EST

the day you knowingly contact a child with sexual overtures is the day you should be hauled in.

the day you knowingly pay money or provide any benefit (advertising dollars via impressions, whatever) for photographs depicting a child in a sexual way is the day you should be hauled in.

etc.

but i agree, just having a psychological disorder doesn't make you a criminal. if you cannot control it yourself, you get professional help. if you can control it yourself, good, great.
--
The K5 Interactive Political Compass SVG Graph
[ Parent ]

You sound like a furfag. /nt (none / 0) (#259)
by ksandstr on Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 03:24:52 PM EST



Fin.
[ Parent ]
+1 FP BUT (2.47 / 17) (#10)
by Tex Bigballs on Sat Jul 29, 2006 at 09:13:58 PM EST

YOU SUBMITTED THIS STORY UNDER YOUR WRONG DUPE LOCAL ROGER

Identity theft (2.91 / 12) (#14)
by Hung Fu on Sat Jul 29, 2006 at 10:46:46 PM EST

I'd be more worried about a prankster creating a fake Yahoo profile and then intentionally getting caught by P.J. They publish the phone number as well as photos and other details, so it'd be trivial to set someone up to be publicly outed as a pedophile, without any risk of being caught yourself. That's the problem with vigilante justice.

__
From Israel To Lebanon
check out the site more (2.40 / 5) (#16)
by balsamic vinigga on Sat Jul 29, 2006 at 10:48:48 PM EST

they call the person and carry out a conversation to verify the person their talking to can be reached at that number.

---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!
[ Parent ]
That's a bit better (2.50 / 2) (#17)
by Hung Fu on Sat Jul 29, 2006 at 10:52:14 PM EST

but you could still use a fake photo and other details to set someone up. There's no way to check whether they're real or not.

__
From Israel To Lebanon
[ Parent ]
That's true... but if word got out you could clear (1.66 / 3) (#18)
by balsamic vinigga on Sat Jul 29, 2006 at 11:04:01 PM EST

your photo and/or name. Almost makes me want to scour the site for my pic to be sure...

---
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[ Parent ]
OH FUCK HOLY SHIT IT'S (2.00 / 3) (#19)
by balsamic vinigga on Sat Jul 29, 2006 at 11:05:50 PM EST

MY PIC

---
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[ Parent ]
depends on how it's run I guess (2.75 / 4) (#24)
by Delirium on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 02:59:56 AM EST

To make these things work responsibly, there usually needs to be a relatively small group of cool-headed, thoughtful people in control. If it's a mob-like organization, it quickly devolves into witch-hunting. In particular, many "rank-and-file" members of such vigilante groups find the thrill of the chase somewhat invigorating, and get bored/annoyed when there aren't enough culprits, so are very quick to jump on anything that looks like it could be a culprit. In the punk scene, this is one trap organizations like Anti-Racist Action have fallen into: Actual neo-Nazis at non-neo-Nazi-band punk shows have become less and less common since the 1980s, so the members of such groups are increasingly grasping at straws to keep themselves relevant in the face of no longer really having anyone to oppose.

[ Parent ]
The problem ... (none / 1) (#238)
by Achromatic on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 08:11:47 PM EST

And this is the inherent problem. The group claims to be all hardline about not entrapping, and for the most part, what I've seen of the logs confirms that - to a degree.

But what you find instead is they don't just go into 'neutral' channels / rooms - they enter specific 'guys-and-older-girls', 'milf-to-be' or what-have you rooms - isn't this 'passive entrapment', a la "Hey, I'm expressing an invitation (not a perfect one, but a bit more explicit than 'she was wearing a short skirt, your honor!') or the message that I'm interested"...

And then of course, there's the outings.

Phone numbers, addresses.

"Oh, don't call them, though. Don't harass them." Why put those details out there, then? It's no more a disclaimer than warez/keygen sites that say "This site for archive/educational purposes only."

[ Parent ]

Ages (none / 1) (#243)
by Xptic on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 08:57:57 PM EST

Earlier, you had a comment about stat. rape.  You said that a guy in a bar could use the fact that the girl he picked up was in a location where you have a reasonable expectation that everyone is of legal age.

When I used Yahoo chat last, in order to join an adult room, you needed to click a button saying that you were an adult and ready for adult chat.

I'm not sure, but I think that in your profile, your "age" has to be >18 just to join an adult Yahoo room.

[ Parent ]

You also seem to be sexually attracted to K5 (2.50 / 8) (#15)
by balsamic vinigga on Sat Jul 29, 2006 at 10:47:15 PM EST

and i think it's only 5 or 6...

---
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...and taken it in the ass more than once NT (3.00 / 5) (#21)
by Entendre Entendre on Sat Jul 29, 2006 at 11:28:05 PM EST


--
Reduce firearm violence: aim carefully.
[ Parent ]

irony (3.00 / 6) (#22)
by Entendre Entendre on Sat Jul 29, 2006 at 11:45:20 PM EST

That comment was originally made to a now-deleted comment allegedly from NIWS. But it's not so wrong in this context either.

--
Reduce firearm violence: aim carefully.
[ Parent ]

I would like to state for the record (2.28 / 7) (#153)
by LilDebbie on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 03:11:21 PM EST

that the bitch totally wanted it, with that sexy blue and grey layout... oh yeah, who's your daddy? Who's your daddy, slut? SAY IT! SAY THE FUCKING WORDS BEFORE I SLAP YOU UNCONSCIOUS WITH MUH DICK

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
Perverted Justice (2.80 / 5) (#23)
by Entendre Entendre on Sat Jul 29, 2006 at 11:46:56 PM EST

Never heard of it til now but I salute their efforts. That's funny, serious, depresssing, and encouraging all at once.

--
Reduce firearm violence: aim carefully.

ummm...yeah (1.40 / 10) (#25)
by GreyGhost on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 06:49:02 AM EST

Let's welcome innocent pedohpiles with open arms to the human race, and give them due credit for controlling the impulses of their fetish.

And let's chemically sterilize them while we're at it, just to make sure they keep it under control.

shouldn't we chemically sterilise you too? (3.00 / 12) (#26)
by desu6 on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 08:10:17 AM EST

after all, don't you have the potential to rape?

[ Parent ]
move to vote, -1 (1.00 / 17) (#30)
by circletimessquare on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 10:54:39 AM EST

just shut the fuck up you asshole

pedophile urges THAT ARE ACTED UPON is the whole fucking point of this group

if you have pedophile urges, you best be locking those thoughts in the back of your head

because if make the slightest action on them towards any child in real life, i call jail for your ass

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

uh what? (2.25 / 4) (#32)
by balsamic vinigga on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 11:42:01 AM EST

reread it, i totally agree with you on this in it.

---
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[ Parent ]
no you don't asshole (1.00 / 9) (#33)
by circletimessquare on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 12:29:01 PM EST

"I call upon Perverted Justice to stop demonizing innocent pedophiles with their insensitive misuse of the word pedophelia. They're in a position to help all people cope with unwanted lust for children, pedophiles themselves as well as society as a whole. "

their use of the word pedophilia is dead on

so fuck off


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

really? how's that (2.00 / 4) (#34)
by balsamic vinigga on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 01:19:47 PM EST

why would they only be wannabe pedos.  If they're wannabe child molestors wouldn't they already be pedos?

---
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[ Parent ]
zzzz (1.11 / 9) (#36)
by circletimessquare on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 01:57:05 PM EST

gee i dunno einstein

maybe if you do something, you've done something

it's called personal accountability

but you go keep excusing behavior

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

lol that made no sense at all $ (2.57 / 7) (#37)
by balsamic vinigga on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 02:16:28 PM EST



---
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[ Parent ]
im not the one excusing pedos nt (1.28 / 7) (#38)
by circletimessquare on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 02:41:26 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
Listen dimwit (2.66 / 9) (#39)
by balsamic vinigga on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 02:59:24 PM EST

I would never excuse touching a kid whether the person is a pedophile or not.

learn the fucking definition of pedophile it's written up in my story fuckface.

---
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[ Parent ]

please to be explaining (1.00 / 7) (#40)
by circletimessquare on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 03:03:58 PM EST

"I call upon Perverted Justice to stop demonizing innocent pedophiles with their insensitive misuse of the word pedophelia. They're in a position to help all people cope with unwanted lust for children, pedophiles themselves as well as society as a whole."

fuckface

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

what needs explaining? $ (2.57 / 7) (#41)
by balsamic vinigga on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 03:18:52 PM EST



---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!
[ Parent ]
CTS you ignorant fuck (2.93 / 16) (#56)
by BadDoggie on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 05:48:30 PM EST

You've just proven that the media you so tirelessly rant about have to dumb everything down for idiots like you. If you'd bother to look up the word, a "pedophile" is one who is attracted to children. Only the pederast acts on such an attraction. The root "-phile" describes only attraction, not action. It's used in chemistry as well (hydrophilic vs. hydrophobic molecules, for example) but you're too fucking ignorant to notice this.

Pedophilia is normal; our country's government is based on that of a society which routinely buggered little boys. Our societal norms make such action unacceptable but you can't legislate how people feel, only how they act.

Attraction to youth is normal; look at the Ancient Greeks and Egyptians. Our society has determined that such action is unacceptable and the majority of pedophiles abide by the law, looking for other outlets. You only hear about the pedarasts because the newspapers can slap up 120pt headlines about it in order to sell more copies. Pedophiles, however, can't even talk about the situation thanks to the demonisation by the media and ignorant fucks like you who eat that shit up and parrot it back out, much like every schmuck earning less than $250K/year who voted for Bush.

You hypocritical fucking idiot. You support the thought police, dumbass.

woof.

"Eppur si muove." -- Galileo Galilei
"Nevertheless, it moves."
[ Parent ]

i'm an ignorant fuck (1.33 / 9) (#72)
by circletimessquare on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 10:59:55 PM EST

because i care more about erring on the protection of children than i do about erring on understanding for someone who has sexual thoughts about children

if that is a basis in your book for being an ignorant fuck, i wear the label with pride

now you go on with your grand crusade of bringing understanding and compassion for people who have sexual thoughts about children

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY (3.00 / 7) (#96)
by Delirium on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 04:14:17 AM EST

THIS IS WHY WE SHOULD BAN VIOLENT MOVIES AND VIDEO GAMES

WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN

[ Parent ]

i'm not the thought police (1.66 / 3) (#111)
by circletimessquare on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 10:31:00 AM EST

i'm talking about actions

zzz...


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

this entire story is a troll (2.00 / 1) (#157)
by circletimessquare on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 05:53:16 PM EST

i am the trolled, not the troll

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
yes, 100% dead on (1.25 / 4) (#110)
by circletimessquare on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 10:30:10 AM EST

think of the children

oh the hysteria, right?

not really

pedophilia is real asswipe

my false alarmism?

or your false complacency?

so i take your "THINK OF THE CHILDREN" simpson's joke

and wear it with pride

protecting children is fucking serious

pedophiles are real

so keep laughing jackass

you'll find no one else is (well except for a bunch of fat geeks in their parents basement commenting here)


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

So, by your 'logic' (3.00 / 2) (#117)
by daveybaby on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 10:44:11 AM EST

every time i find a woman physically attractive i should immediately go to prison for rape, correct?

Deranged ranting
|
|
V

[ Parent ]

deranged ranting (none / 0) (#121)
by circletimessquare on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 10:47:53 AM EST

i'm talking actions, not thoughts

duh


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Yeah, cancel my previous post. (3.00 / 1) (#123)
by daveybaby on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 10:51:24 AM EST

I eventually managed to decode that mess and figure out what you were actually on about.

[ Parent ]
Why does anyone even acknowledge CTS exists? $ (none / 1) (#206)
by Zeriel on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 10:31:39 AM EST



[ Parent ]
-1 (1.42 / 7) (#54)
by GhostOfTiber on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 05:28:10 PM EST

Well, we know BV probably posting from prison using his only phone call and a TTY terminal to post this on K5 before he's pounded in the ass for touching all those little boys.

Anyway, the thing that gets me about this show is that they don't just shoot these people in the face and claim it was self defence.  These predators are in the childrens homes, after all.  I should just start a show called "Perverted Street Justice".  The person comes in, a little boy comes out, they pop a bone, then the kid gives them both barrels in the face of 12 ga buckshot.  The raging lesbian who normally works the phone drags them out the back door, throws them in the ditch and the process continues.  We can have things like "quicklime special episodes" and "lets see where they are now!" where they put those little tracker chips in the corpses and they track down what coyote their bones currently are digesting in.

And, uh, proof or STFU.  For all you know, it's the producers pictures from when they were younger.

[Nimey's] wife's ass is my cocksheath. - undermyne

mmm how old are you TTY's? $ (1.66 / 3) (#55)
by balsamic vinigga on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 05:30:58 PM EST



---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!
[ Parent ]
i wasn't the one u let touch u when u were 10 (1.33 / 3) (#59)
by balsamic vinigga on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 06:10:30 PM EST

don't take it out on me.  Blame your uncle, and blame your parents from keeping you so sheltered from sex that u were to confused to just say no.  But don't take it out on me and don't take it out on innocent pedophiles.

Fuck, actually you're lucky you got someone to irrationally blame for all your adult frustrations and shortcomings.  Me on the other hand, i'm doomed to faced reality.

---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!
[ Parent ]

dude (2.50 / 2) (#64)
by GhostOfTiber on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 06:47:51 PM EST

When I was 10, I had a double barreled shotgun.

No-one messed with us.

[Nimey's] wife's ass is my cocksheath. - undermyne
[ Parent ]

nice (none / 0) (#204)
by zenofchai on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 08:27:13 AM EST

so you admit that pedophiles prey on the innocent because the children don't know better yet. well done.
--
The K5 Interactive Political Compass SVG Graph
[ Parent ]
WTF is that supposed to mean? $ (none / 1) (#207)
by balsamic vinigga on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 11:10:47 AM EST



---
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[ Parent ]
follow: (none / 1) (#208)
by zenofchai on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 12:10:32 PM EST

you said:
don't take it out on me.  Blame your uncle, and blame your parents from keeping you so sheltered from sex that u were to confused to just say no.  But don't take it out on me and don't take it out on innocent pedophiles.

you describe the victim as being too ignorant and confused to say no, implying that if the victim were instead knowledgeable and certain they would have said no. thus, "you admit that pedophiles prey on the innocent because the children don't know better yet."

again, well done. could not have said it much better myself.
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[ Parent ]

ok but why do you say "admit" (1.00 / 2) (#209)
by balsamic vinigga on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 12:12:31 PM EST

like it's a chore for me to do so or goes against my beleifs or any prior argument.  I'm not about reforming current age of consent laws or anything :/

---
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[ Parent ]
perhaps that part was a mistake (none / 0) (#211)
by zenofchai on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 12:16:59 PM EST

perhaps i mistake you for someone else; but it seems that certainly you have been defending the pedophile position in the past few days. maybe i have been reading wrongly into the wrong comments, that is just the impression i have without checking into it.
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[ Parent ]
no all i've been doing (2.00 / 3) (#213)
by balsamic vinigga on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 12:23:36 PM EST

is making points and exploring the situation free of the status quo of hysteria and phobias.

How am i siding with sex-offenders in any of these arguments:

  1. innocent pedophiles shouldn't be treated or regarded as any worse than innocent non-pedophiles.

  2. westers society needs to get over their collective psychological issues with sex, and help arm their children from sexual predators.

  3. sexual predators are often victims themselves. Though that in no way gets them off the hook of for their actions, if we can address their problems then perhaps we can reduce the number of sexual predators. That's the win win, no perps = no victims.


---
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[ Parent ]
apologies and new attacks (none / 0) (#222)
by zenofchai on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 01:49:16 AM EST

your points 2 and 3 there, nice, kudos.

point 1: i'm not sure i follow. i agree that both innocent pedophiles and innocent non-pedophiles should be treated and regarded as human beings. but it is obvious that innocent pedophiles have at least 1 major psychological defect which is not possessed by innocent non-pedophiles; a defect which exposes them to temptation which if acted upon can destroy the life of a child.
--
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[ Parent ]

I find it rather ironic (3.00 / 20) (#58)
by The Diary Section on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 06:03:35 PM EST

"Perverted justice" should face charges themselves. After all, what kind of a sicko pretends to be a child online? I can think of only one explanation. Hiding behind the "vigilante" flag is probably the best place to hide actually. Thats a common element in most of the recent high-profile cases where people have been caught with child porn, they reckoned they were "investigating" or something. Yeah, right. Its only a matter of time before one of them turns out to be gamekeeper turned poacher.

I'm against vigilantes in general for that reason.

Spend 10 minutes in the company of an American and you end up feeling like a Keats or a Shelley: Thin, brilliant, suave, and desperate for industrial-scale quantities of opium.

not entrapment (1.33 / 3) (#75)
by circletimessquare on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 11:10:30 PM EST

First of all, 'entrapment' only applys to law enforcement agencies. That said, only in specifc circumstances. If you are coherced into doing something by an undercover police officer you would not normaly do, that is entrapment. If they step out from an ally and start offering you free samples of cocaine, then you take it and they bust you for posetion, that is entrapment. If you come up to the same cop and start asking for it, that's not entrapment. That's you soliciting illegal drugs. He was just standing there. Looking like a drug dealer isn't illegal, is it now? Nope. You just assumed.

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
Very interesting (3.00 / 5) (#98)
by The Diary Section on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 05:57:33 AM EST

irrelevant to me because our legal system is different, but very interesting.
Still, what does it have to do with my comment?
Spend 10 minutes in the company of an American and you end up feeling like a Keats or a Shelley: Thin, brilliant, suave, and desperate for industrial-scale quantities of opium.
[ Parent ]
Hey! Lookie there! (1.50 / 2) (#167)
by jandev on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 06:34:35 PM EST

Capitals and punctuation in a CTS post.

And reason even.

What did you do to him, imposter!


"ENGINEERS" IS NOT POSSESSIVE. IT'S A PLURAL. YOU DO NOT MOTHERFUCKING MARK A PLURAL WITH A COCKSUCKING APOSTROPHE. APOSTROPHES ARE FOR MARKING POSSESSIVES IN THIS CASE. IF YOU WEREN'T A TOTAL MORON, YOU WOULD BE SAYING SOMETHING LIKE "THE CIVIL ENGINEER'S SMALL PENIS". SEE THAT APOSTROPHE? IT'S A HAPPY APOSTROPHE. IT'S NOT BEING ABUSED BY SOME GODDAMN SHIT-FOR-BRAINS IDIOT WITH NO EDUCATION. - Nimey
[ Parent ]

As I said elsewhere (2.33 / 3) (#169)
by godix on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 07:43:45 PM EST

Original comment here

From their FAQ

So are the files we post "entrapment"? No. Not on any level. First, entrapment is a term created and judiciated against law enforcement officials. We are not law enforcement officials. Secondly, these people IM our names first. We don't IM them. They choose to say the things they say, to agree to the things they agree to, and to give their phone number for the verification call.

From their frontpage

Over July 21st, 22nd, 26th and 27th, we partnered with the Harris County Sheriff's Department to get 20 internet predators arrested.

From their contributors profile

From seeing chats that were borderline go completely sexual after a verification, to talking would-be pedophiles in to bust houses during Group Media Busts, it's been proven time and time again how important and vital the verifiers are to this operation.

So basically their stance is 'it's not entrapment if we aren't the cops, hey check out how we worked with the cops ...' and 'pedophiles choose to do what they do, after we talk them into it...'

Those people are tripping every 'blind fanatics who will sacrifice who they claim to help in order to nail someone' sensor I have. These aren't people willing to help children, these are people on a crusade who will be too busy glorying in their bust to bother with something so mundane as getting her help. Of course I could be wrong, all I have to judge by is what they present on their webpage but I find it telling what they choose to present themselves as.



- An egotist is someone who thinks they're almost as good as I am.
[ Parent ]

Just looking for some conversation (2.00 / 2) (#205)
by Mike the Kid on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 09:47:07 AM EST

'pedophiles choose to do what they do, after we talk them into it...'
So the peds were talked into it? They IM'd someone they presumed to be a child, verified their age, for what purpose? Men don't talk to anonymous children over IM and verify their age because they want to find out what the hot new music is. OK? As for working with the cops, you would prefer they just brought some pitchforks and torches from the Home Depot? Back when I was 14 or so, I was into BBS's. I became a sysop at a BBS a few towns away. Never met the owner. Talked to him on the phone once or twice. He was always trying to get me to come over for me to hang out. It creeped me out, it really creeped my parents out, and we shut that down. Later, I had my suspicions strengthened by evidence some of my friends had. Now that I'm an adult, I'm quite sure I have no desire to hang out with 12 or 14 year old kids. And this is consistent with my peers. So I'm very suspicious of men who take an interest in children like this.

[ Parent ]
Not convinced. (3.00 / 3) (#210)
by creature on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 12:14:01 PM EST

I talk to a 15 year old girl online. I know her from a small IRC channel we both frequent. She's only just turned 15. I wouldn't want to hang out with her, but meeting her in real life would be neat.

That said, I'm always damn careful about what I say. I enjoy our conversation, nothing more, and we definitely don't talk about anything adult. She's on a whole different continent which makes me slightly more comfortable, too - the chance of us crossing paths in real life is minimal.

When I was younger I spent time around adults socially, and liked it. I used to spend lots of time talking to the (female) IT technician at school, for instance. When I was about 9 I got into trouble for asking the headmaster of my school to watch a print-out for me as I had to go and do something else. I got chastised for that - for not buying into the idea that the head was my better, not my peer.

The above couple of paragraphs aren't that clear; basically, what I'm trying to say is that for every 99 boring adolescents, there's 1 out there who's good company - and that adult friendships can (not are always or without fail) be healthy for kids and teenagers.

[ Parent ]

You ever read that book (2.66 / 3) (#217)
by The Diary Section on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 01:11:04 PM EST

The Newtonian Casino? Its about some dudes who used tiny computers to try and make money out of roulette. Anyhow, the two main protagonists (its a true story) both came from this little town in the middle of nowhere at all and both of them are world class scientists (Doyne Farmer and Norman Packard, look 'em up). Bit of a coincidence? It appears to have a lot to do with a sort of burnt out physicist who moved there and let the kids come round his house when they liked and mend engines, do experiments and stuff. He treated them like adults, gave them serious answers to serious questions and so of course they pretty much reciprocated.

No hint of impropriety but today I bet that guy would be chased out of town with lit torches and pitchforks for creating the sort of situation that educators have spent millions to try and engineer with very little success.
Spend 10 minutes in the company of an American and you end up feeling like a Keats or a Shelley: Thin, brilliant, suave, and desperate for industrial-scale quantities of opium.
[ Parent ]

Never read it. (none / 0) (#219)
by creature on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 04:17:37 PM EST

I'll keep an eye out.

[ Parent ]
yes we're so fucking hysterical (1.66 / 3) (#220)
by balsamic vinigga on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 04:22:35 PM EST

and fear mongering that just the mere thought of spending time around a kid that's not directly related to you makes you look creepy.

---
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[ Parent ]
perhaps a caveat (none / 1) (#224)
by zenofchai on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 01:59:19 AM EST

spending time with a kid whose parents do not know you are spending time with them makes you look creepy.

the reason parents get bugged out is because kids get buggered. by priests, by roving ex-cons, by uncles, by fathers, by older brothers, all kinds of fucked up repugnant shit.

i will not spend a moment of my life defending someone "right" to not feel oppressed due to their untreated psychological defect.

if you want to tell me that we're locking up people for saying the words: "i like children. in that way." then i don't think i'd believe you without evidence. i think that society sure as hell treats a person who makes such a statement as below refuse; much as we would outcast a person who says "i think about cutting people up and eating them." or "i think about fucking corpses all the time."

but we don't lock people up for thinking something, or saying that they think about something. until they make that first positive move towards doing that something we don't lock them up. and that is what's important.

this article... it's funny. HAHA! it's funny. and the discussion. because what we have are NOT "innocent pedophiles" who think things; or say that they think things. we have pedophiles who have taken an ACT to DO a thing.

there is a difference. like the necrophiliac who buys a shovel and a map of the cemetary and thus becomes a criminal instead of simply a deviant.
--
The K5 Interactive Political Compass SVG Graph
[ Parent ]

yeah except the word necropheliac (1.00 / 2) (#233)
by balsamic vinigga on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 11:20:56 AM EST

doesn't carry the stigma of criminal intent like pedophelia does.

Same with nearly every other bizzare disorder.  And that's what the complaint in my article was about..  Nowhere have i defended the sad bastards they're catching.  I even commended their efforts as overall a good thing for society.

---
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[ Parent ]

yes it does (none / 1) (#234)
by zenofchai on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 12:32:55 PM EST

also: ping to:
http://www.kuro5hin.org/comments/2006/7/29/191347/498/227#227

i know, i lack patience, direction, subtlety, and comprehension. i always have. i don't mind anymore.

"necrophelia" doesn't carry the stigma of criminal intent; but a "necrophiliac" certainly does. but perhaps you and i run into vastly different sorts of people. the sort i know would chain either nec. or ped. to their truck and drive around town as sport. now, certainly, that is also a serious mental issue.

take the words: "sociopath" or "psychopath". perhaps here is where we can make "progress towards consensus".

if i call someone a sociopath, it's likely an insult. call someone a sociopathic killer, and the key criminal part there is "killer".

perhaps you can attempt to reclaim "pedophile" as the abstract, and focus instead on correcting the use of it by itself as a crime to "pedophilic child sex offender" or similar.
--
The K5 Interactive Political Compass SVG Graph
[ Parent ]

If it does i'm not aware of it (1.00 / 2) (#235)
by balsamic vinigga on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 01:00:35 PM EST

but then the media doesn't bombard me with the messages it does like it does with pedophelia.  In almost all cases where i've read or heard about necrophelia have been psychology-related not media related so that's probably why.

Infact if somebody said someone was acting out on their necrophelia i'd assume they were role playing or like having kinky goth sex with holloween costumes.. simply because access to corpses isn't a daily thing like it is with children... unless of course i heard a mortician was acting on their necrophelia then i'd assume a crime was going on.

But it doesn't matter what i think, i'm consistent and level headed with my stance on all prahaphilias..  sucks if you got em, get some help for it if you have to but don't commit any crimes.  And i urge society as a whole to show more understanding.  Yes, I would be disturbed if i knew society took the word necropheliac and changed its definition to "corpse fucker." It does no good, all it does is stir hysteria over paraphelias.

Now, watch everybody assume i'm a necropheliac too as they have assumed i'm a pedophile.

---
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[ Parent ]

i didn't even want to put my name in (none / 0) (#236)
by zenofchai on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 01:26:00 PM EST

the hat on ANY side of this discussion for fear of being labeled a pedophile just for talking about it. and, other than a penchant for menage a trois fantasies (the good kind) i don't think i'm much of a sexual deviant.
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[ Parent ]
heh yeah exactly my point (none / 1) (#237)
by balsamic vinigga on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 03:44:42 PM EST

so much hysteria you get labelled just by talking about it.  So fucking rediculous it's like we're in kindergarten.

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[ Parent ]
well in society's defense (none / 0) (#239)
by zenofchai on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 08:23:12 PM EST

it is a particularly heinous crime fueled by a mental disorder that is the antithesis of our society.
--
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[ Parent ]
a poor defense (1.50 / 2) (#244)
by balsamic vinigga on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 09:08:16 PM EST

The heinous nature makes an open dialog that much more important.

---
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[ Parent ]
here's the honesty coming: (3.00 / 2) (#246)
by zenofchai on Thu Aug 03, 2006 at 10:10:28 AM EST

the reason people don't want to talk about it is because they (1) are scared shitless that they themselves are afflicted with the disease and (2) don't understand the disease and fear they could "catch it" by talking about it a lot.
--
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[ Parent ]
Even worse (2.75 / 4) (#242)
by Achromatic on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 08:31:18 PM EST

Not even that, but a current affairs show here did some secret filming. Hired a range of actors, male of 40, woman of 40, and children ages 10+ to women of 20.

Filmed public reactions to acts of "parental" affection (not intimate), hugging, cuddling, as appropriate to the age of the "child", and so on.

Unsurprisingly, no-one batted an eyelid at the "mother".

The "father" however, got dirty looks, whisperings, scowls, and outright abuse for the same behaviour.

It's a sad world. There's a paragraph in Michael Crichton's book "Disclosure" (as opposed to the horrid movie), talking of "The New Rules For Men In Society":

(paraphrased, or inaccurately quoted), "When you see a child crying in public, don't help it, find a woman to. If a child sits in your lap, lift it out. If you happen to see a child naked, leave the room. Don't be alone with a child. Always find someone to be with, preferably a woman. Even if the child is your own."

[ Parent ]

According to their own words they do (2.66 / 3) (#221)
by godix on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 04:48:13 PM EST

So the peds were talked into it?

By the sites own words, yes they were. Their site says "to talking would-be pedophiles in to bust houses ..."
Men don't talk to anonymous children over IM and verify their age because they want to find out what the hot new music is.

Actually men talk to anonymous children for all sorts of innocent reasons. Personally if a 14 year old wanders into IRC I'll verify their age just so I know if I should stop talking about necrophilia and crap like that. And, of course, I'll talk to the kid assuming he/she doesn't bore me shitless. Just because YOU choose to go out of your way to avoid children doesn't mean everyone else does. Most of us are able to deal with children without pathological fear like you apparently have or lust like kiddie rapers have.
As for working with the cops, you would prefer they just brought some pitchforks and torches from the Home Depot?

While I'm not going to disagree that street justice might be the best idea sometimes, I will point out my issue isn't that they work with cops but rather that they claim the rules don't apply to them because they aren't cops while at the same time bragging about working with cops.
So I'm very suspicious of men who take an interest in children like this.

Yeah, because we all know the anyone who chooses to work with Big Brother Big Sister, become a teacher, or in any way chooses to be with children is a raging pervert. Riiiight.


- An egotist is someone who thinks they're almost as good as I am.
[ Parent ]
Entrapment (2.75 / 4) (#202)
by Xptic on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 07:19:20 AM EST

The reason I think entrapment should still apply here is this:

A few years ago, a friend was going through a nasty divorce.  They were seperated and she was talking with him on the phone.  He was getting drunk and, according to him, she was a bit tipsy too.  She invited him to come over.  Then she called the cops and said her hubby had called her, was drunk, and was on his way over.

He was charged with DUI.

Now, there is really no way for you or I to decide whose version of the truth is to be belived.  But, the cops always side with women.

You see the chat logs on PJ.  You think these guys are real sickos.  Maybe they are.  But, who knows what was logged?  How much did they leave out?

I'm sure PJ has a few lawyers to make sure they follow the bounds of the law.  But it still takes two to tango.

Something else to think about:  what law have the pervs broken?  You are filming a movie.  If someone gets shot in a scene, are you charged with murder?  As long as no one dies, chances are, you are safe.

If I chat with someone who is 18, but said she's 14, then I haven't broken a law.

If I meet with someone who is 18 and said she's 14, I still haven't broken a law.

If you have any "schoolgirl" or "babysitter" pr0n, you haven't broken a law...usually.

If an adult pretends to be a child as part of some role-playing fantasy, then no crime has been committed.

PJ does not see it this way.

PJ belives that if I meet a girl who claims to be 18 but is, in fact, 16, then I deserve to be in prison.  It does not matter what the girl claimed, I should have known better.

PJ also belives that if I meet a girl who is 18 but claims to be 16, then I deserve prison.

Do you see the lack of parity in this?

[ Parent ]

I would like to see this defence tested (none / 1) (#240)
by Achromatic on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 08:25:08 PM EST

Much as the (attempted) defence in some stat. rape cases was "she was in a bar, it was reasonable to suspect she was 21", could you not try "from her language and her voice, she sounded young, but I knew she was older, and just pretending" - after all, the verifiers are "of age, but have 'young sounding voices'" - if you know this, I think you could make a plausible argument that "you knew the person was legal all along, and just going along with the age play fantasy".

I know of an (adult) MUSH where the players must be 18, but can play characters as low as 12. This place is very well known, and I believe there have been one or two attempts to close it down. But because there is a "reasonable expectation" that the person at the keyboard is 18 even though they may be typing "giggle giggle i'm 12 daddy", you're not pretty safe.

[ Parent ]

My Guess (none / 1) (#248)
by icastel on Thu Aug 03, 2006 at 04:11:23 PM EST

I would say that after a hard day's work, PJ staff just go home and wank off.


-- I like my land flat --
[ Parent ]
-1 does not mention older mature women /nt (1.16 / 6) (#68)
by yellow shark on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 08:31:24 PM EST



Welcome to reality (3.00 / 15) (#69)
by Enlarged to Show Texture on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 09:29:15 PM EST

People are so scared of every little thing these days that they're more than happy to legalize entrapment, torture, prison rape, and send people to prison for life for jaywalking.

Welcome to the Criminal Nation, where everyone's just waiting to tattle so they can avoid going to a pound me in the ass prison for their own insignificant transgressions...


"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." -- Isaac Asimov
what's wrong with tattling on pedophile? nt (1.25 / 4) (#73)
by circletimessquare on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 11:05:50 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
when thinking about something is outlawed (3.00 / 7) (#76)
by desu6 on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 11:10:41 PM EST

only outlaws will think about things

[ Parent ]
we're not talking about thought (1.40 / 5) (#77)
by circletimessquare on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 11:11:10 PM EST

we're talking about actions

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
most paedophiles never rape or molest a child (3.00 / 8) (#78)
by desu6 on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 11:14:05 PM EST



[ Parent ]
so this whole thing is about being a grammar nazi? (1.25 / 4) (#82)
by circletimessquare on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 11:39:43 PM EST

let's assume for a moment that most people understand that thoughts are not actions

let's assume for the moment no one likes child rapists

we're all basically in agreement on the CONCEPTS

but we have to fucking argue

this entire fucking argument is over the proper grammar nazi use of the word "pedophile" as implying action, when it doesn't according to proper word usage

whatfuckingever

everyone agrees on the concepts, but when one person says "jail the pedophiles" the other person thinks people are proposing to make thoughts crimes

and when another person says "don't prosecute pedophiles" the other person thinks people are trying to excuse child rapists

man i hate grammar nazis

you KNOW the common usage of the term pedophile impies action has occured

but please, dear fucking grammar nazis, dump all of your high holy outrage on me for proposing that the common usage of the term implies that

meanwhile, i'm content that you're not a member of nambla, and i know i'm not doing anything wrong either, i'm not championing the thought police, so there really is nothing to argue about here

cue the high holy righteous grammar nazi crusaders...

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

definition != grammar (2.72 / 11) (#85)
by balsamic vinigga on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 11:45:40 PM EST

The whole point is the COST we endure when people took a scientific word from psychology and turned it into a dysphemism because they lacked the emotional maturity to understand that not all pedophiles are monsters or would ever hurt a child in a gazillion years.

---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!
[ Parent ]
again (1.60 / 5) (#89)
by circletimessquare on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 11:54:31 PM EST

the word "pedophile" implies action to most people

whether that is right or wrong is besides the point

most people just think that way, so you need to be explicit about your terminology

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

that is because most people are morons (3.00 / 3) (#170)
by creativedissonance on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 07:48:21 PM EST

and by cottoning to their misconception, you, sir, become a moron as well.

HTH, HAND.


ay yo i run linux and word on the street
is that this is where i need to be to get my butt stuffed like a turkey - br14n
[ Parent ]

yes, i am a moron (none / 1) (#180)
by circletimessquare on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 01:39:03 AM EST

and you are an exceeding wise genius level swami guru of all things intellectual


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
glad we cleared that one up! (3.00 / 4) (#214)
by creativedissonance on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 12:37:49 PM EST




ay yo i run linux and word on the street
is that this is where i need to be to get my butt stuffed like a turkey - br14n
[ Parent ]
Since when? (none / 0) (#249)
by cburke on Thu Aug 03, 2006 at 08:37:31 PM EST

Most everyone I know uses the phrase "child molester", "child rapist", or similar to denote someone who has acted on these urges.

Pedophile means "likes kids in an inappropriate way" to most people I know.

But hey, everyone has their own "most people".

[ Parent ]

that's not the case at all (3.00 / 9) (#86)
by desu6 on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 11:47:12 PM EST

usable of 'pedophile' to mean 'child molester' is unusual to me. are you saying that if in colloquial usage, if you say "yeah that guy's a pedophile" then it means he's molested a child before? to mean all it means is that hes attracted to children and may want to molest a child.

honestly your definition just shows how irrational you are when it comes to paedophilia, because you're jumping to the conclusion that thought = action for these particular individuals. why should they not be able to control themselves? clearly you're stereotyping and buying into the fox news media frenzy to boot.

regardless, amongst educated individuals i've met the word pedophile has never meant child molester. i can see how changing its so it does would fit certain discriminatory agendas, though.

[ Parent ]

most people (1.75 / 4) (#91)
by circletimessquare on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 11:59:10 PM EST

consider "pedophilia" to include action

that really is the case

you can argue about how right or wrong that meaning is all you want, but words shift in meaning all the time

you don't have an argument with me on the righteousness for a thought police, which i don't believe, or that we should free child rapists, which you don't believe

so essentially, we have no argument


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

agree with cts on this point (3.00 / 3) (#112)
by zenofchai on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 10:31:37 AM EST

when you say "jack is a pedophile" it means that jack is a child sex offender.

if you complain that the term has been hijacked, i'm sorry. it's too late. the term is gone. use a different term to mean what you want it to mean.

http://www.healthline.com/galecontent/pedophilia?utm_term=paedophilia%20&utm _medium=mw&utm_campaign=article

yes, the psychological term means one thing. society overwhelmingly takes the word to mean something else. so overwhelmingly it is like trying to correct george w. bush's pronounciation of "nuclear" -- what will likely (and did) happen is this new, broken pronounciation will be added to official pronounciation guides as an alternate.

From the above article, the only statement of interest to this discussion:

Pedophilia is defined by mental health professionals as a mental disorder, but the American legal system defines acting on a pedophilic urge as a criminal act.

--
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[ Parent ]
aha! (3.00 / 3) (#116)
by zenofchai on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 10:43:31 AM EST

so if you want to talk about someone in a non-criminal sense, something like: "jack has been plagued by pedophilic urges which he finds difficult to control". but when you say "jack is a pedophile" it means something more than this to the vast majority of people.
--
The K5 Interactive Political Compass SVG Graph
[ Parent ]
thank you, exactly nt (1.50 / 2) (#120)
by circletimessquare on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 10:47:04 AM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
I bet you're the exception to that rule though (2.33 / 3) (#174)
by GreyGhost on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 11:39:17 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Yup. (3.00 / 2) (#177)
by ObviousTroll on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 12:56:39 AM EST

A Nation of Wimps.

Beware of drduck, I see him as possibly the biggest obstacle to this plan. -- kardis314


[ Parent ]
if you're serious about stopping them (3.00 / 7) (#80)
by j1mmy on Sun Jul 30, 2006 at 11:19:35 PM EST

get hooked by one of their workers, set up a meeting, and kill the asshole that shows up.

Honeypot (3.00 / 3) (#105)
by Xptic on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 09:37:39 AM EST

You're actually on to something there.  I don't think you'd get away with murder.  In most cases, they set it up so law enforcement is there.  You could set up the meeting, scout the place, and then follow the guy home.  But, they are really good about getting enough details that tracking you down would be a cakewalk.

However, you could arrange a honeypot-style system.  There are, from what I've seen, a small number of PJ workers.  You could tie up their resources easily.  They probably revolve screennames, but the IPs wouldn't change outside of a small subnet.  Chat with them, set up and break meetings.  Chat more.  Get them to want to spend more time and energy on you.  Tell stories about raping and murdering kids.  Then, if somehow they track back to you, just say it was all an internet game.  After all, on the internet, men are men, the women are men, and the 14yo virgins are FBI agents...

[ Parent ]

eliza meet pedro (none / 0) (#114)
by lukme on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 10:32:56 AM EST




-----------------------------------
It's awfully hard to fly with eagles when you're a turkey.
[ Parent ]
SHIT (3.00 / 11) (#99)
by CAPS LOCK on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 07:22:55 AM EST

TIME TO CHANGE MY ADDRESS

omg lizzy links (3.00 / 1) (#137)
by creativedissonance on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 12:22:50 PM EST

http://ourworld.cs.com/pinkdivadesigns/LIzzielayoutj.jpg

http://www.desperateblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/hilary-duff-in-paris-air port-2.jpg (HIREZ)

http://images.inq7.net/news/entertainment/images/2005/jan/14/hilary-duff.jpg

not particularly hot, vinigga.


ay yo i run linux and word on the street
is that this is where i need to be to get my butt stuffed like a turkey - br14n

done wanking? $ (none / 1) (#140)
by balsamic vinigga on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 12:33:24 PM EST



---
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[ Parent ]
PLZ TO BE READING COMMENT (none / 0) (#142)
by creativedissonance on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 12:44:15 PM EST

'not particularly hot'

also, I'm at work.


ay yo i run linux and word on the street
is that this is where i need to be to get my butt stuffed like a turkey - br14n
[ Parent ]

yeah those pics don't do much (none / 1) (#143)
by balsamic vinigga on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 12:51:09 PM EST

she's hotter in motion. rent some movies.

as for being at work, so?

---
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[ Parent ]

Best part of sex with 15 yr old girls... (2.14 / 7) (#171)
by Smiley K on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 08:21:58 PM EST

Tying their hair in pigtails so you can pretend they are 12...
-- Someone set up us the bomb.
I recognize this type of story too.... (3.00 / 2) (#172)
by GreyGhost on Mon Jul 31, 2006 at 10:19:30 PM EST

It's the "let's make K5 a nice non-oppressive place for pedophiles to come and hang out" story.

Don't worry (none / 0) (#203)
by zenofchai on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 08:23:47 AM EST

http://www.kuro5hin.org/comments/2006/7/31/202510/626/5#5

Not on my watch.
--
The K5 Interactive Political Compass SVG Graph
[ Parent ]

In their defense, (3.00 / 7) (#176)
by Hung Fu on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 12:55:32 AM EST

PJ did help put together the Dateline "To Catch A Predator" series, which is funny as hell if you haven't seen it. And the show underlines that the only people who get caught by these things aren't just creepy perverts but are also incredibly stupid fucks, so it's hard to feel much pity at their misfortune.

For example, one idiot saw another perp getting arrested, so he just drove around the block and arrived at the sting later. AND HE'D ALREADY SEEN THE SHOW BEFORE ON TV!

__
From Israel To Lebanon

yeah i read enough of their sting logs (1.80 / 5) (#178)
by balsamic vinigga on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 01:15:14 AM EST

to see the sorta guys they catch.

It is almost sad.  They're so damn stupid that they have ABSOLUTELY ZERO GAME with any legal chick, so they like have no choice but to try to shag people pretending to be willing minors.

I don't think they'd have any game with actual real life minors though.  Seriously, read the chat logs, it's pretty disturbing.. especially coupled with PeeJ's snide commentary.

---
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[ Parent ]

you're so fucking pathetic (1.00 / 11) (#179)
by circletimessquare on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 01:36:36 AM EST

you talk like those assholes are the victims

jesus fucking mohammed get your head out of your ass

grown men who think they are showing their dicks in chat to 13 YEAR OLDS ARE NOT VICTIMS YOU DOUCHEBAG

THEY ARE THE PERPS

i don't care WHAT made you show you're dick to someone you thought was 13 years old in chat

if you fucking thought the fucking person was 13 years old, and you fucking showed them your dick:

YOU LOSE

YOU'RE AN ASSHOLE

GO TO JAIL

GOODBYE

END OF FUCKING STORY

really

get it in your thick fucking skull you fucking douchebag

do you fucking understand?


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

lol (1.50 / 2) (#181)
by balsamic vinigga on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 01:41:04 AM EST

CTS, it's just a simple sad fact that nearly every perp. every evil fucker on this planet is also a victim..  it's cyclical. These pers are sad pathetic weak misfits and their lives suck. And they make the world worse beacuse of it.

evil begats evil, victims are catalysts for more victims it's a sick sad fucking cycle.

NOWHERE THOUGH DOES BEING A VICTIM EXCUSE YOU OF YOUR ACTIONS.  and i never meant to imply it does.

But just beacuse a perp did something unforgivable doesn't mean i'm no longer to look at the reality of how shitty they have had it.

---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!
[ Parent ]

you are one of two things (1.11 / 9) (#183)
by circletimessquare on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 02:08:16 AM EST

  1. a very hard working troll

  2. one extremely deluded fuck

"NOWHERE THOUGH DOES BEING A VICTIM EXCUSE YOU OF YOUR ACTIONS"

wow

just wow


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

huh? (1.50 / 2) (#185)
by balsamic vinigga on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 02:16:09 AM EST

you think being a victim excuses you of any crime you willfully commit?

---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!
[ Parent ]
such as what (none / 1) (#187)
by circletimessquare on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 02:21:40 AM EST

posing as a 13 year old online?


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
eh? there's no crime against that.... (1.66 / 3) (#189)
by balsamic vinigga on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 02:23:15 AM EST

what are you saying?

---
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[ Parent ]
you got me (none / 1) (#191)
by circletimessquare on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 02:24:45 AM EST

you've trolled me very well


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
IHBT - nice "you've trolled me" troll $ (1.50 / 4) (#193)
by balsamic vinigga on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 02:26:56 AM EST



---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!
[ Parent ]
but yeah let's ignore the perp's motivation entire (1.50 / 2) (#182)
by balsamic vinigga on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 01:48:36 AM EST

ly why don't we. god forbid we should face reality and find out what sick sad shit motivates these people.  Honestly if prostitution for dimwited retards with no game saves kids, i'll gladly not only call for a legalization of prostitution but have my tax dollars go pussy handouts for the game-impared.  

---
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[ Parent ]
what motivates them (1.25 / 4) (#184)
by circletimessquare on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 02:11:11 AM EST

they want sex

and?

what amazing breakthrough along this line of thought are you expecting?

there's nothing wrong with wanting sex

it's the whole going to 13 year olds to get it that is the problem

HELLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOO????????????????????

ANYONE HOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEE??????????????????

what about the braindead obvious eludes you exactly?


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

yes i understand that's a problem (none / 1) (#186)
by balsamic vinigga on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 02:17:10 AM EST

it's also a problem that they don't have enough game to have normal sex lives like the rest of us...

---
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[ Parent ]
that problem excuses their actions? nt (none / 0) (#188)
by circletimessquare on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 02:22:34 AM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
you're so fucking dense sometimes (2.25 / 4) (#190)
by balsamic vinigga on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 02:24:05 AM EST

explanations aren't excuses... but explanations help you reform a system that cultivates evil actions.

---
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[ Parent ]
i can not possibly believe (1.12 / 8) (#192)
by circletimessquare on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 02:25:49 AM EST

you are this incredibly stupid

you are a one hard working troll

it just is not possible that someone be this dense


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

ditto (2.25 / 4) (#195)
by balsamic vinigga on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 02:30:14 AM EST

CTS, the funny thing is you and me we pretty much always agree on just about everything really... but something happens when we talk where we just completely fail to effectively communicate and we think we're arguing but we're really not. It's so weird how 2 ppl who pretty much agree can argue so damn much.

---
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[ Parent ]
i have no respect for you (1.11 / 9) (#198)
by circletimessquare on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 03:40:15 AM EST

don't flatter yourself

go fuck yourself asshole


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

OK this is the 3rd thread so far, i see a pattern (2.00 / 6) (#201)
by balsamic vinigga on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 07:07:42 AM EST

this is what happens.

I say something benign on the issue of pedophelia and/or child rape that requires me to not be completely mentally crippled by my emotions.

You come and atttack me without taking a moment to realize wtf i'm saying.

We go back and forth for like 10 posting until I convince you everything I said was benign. And that you can't prove you actually disagree with anything I've said.

You call me a troll because of it.

Please to be explaining exactly what you have against me? Why should I have to be completely mentally grippled by hysteria over the crime of sexual assault of children to earn your respect CTS?

---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!
[ Parent ]

I HAVE A CONFESSSION TO MAKE (2.68 / 16) (#194)
by professor chaos on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 02:28:14 AM EST

when i was 12 i went to new york and met this guy in tiems square, he said he was "circletimesquare", whatever that means. anyway, he exposed himself to me and offered me oral sex. i was too young to know what was going on so we went to this dingy motel and this dude sucked on my penis for about 10 minutes. now that i think back on it, it was kind of creepy.

yeah (none / 1) (#199)
by circletimessquare on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 03:44:05 AM EST

i saw midnight cowboy too

good movie


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Wow. (none / 1) (#231)
by Smothie on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 06:49:38 AM EST

It's hard to believe that I am as old as that movie. No, wait...

--

Please visit my scoop site, Guppylog - For help with all livebearing fish.
[ Parent ]
You people so dirty! (2.33 / 3) (#200)
by IandI on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 06:06:15 AM EST

Why Americans so dirty?

Boy's Body Found on Golf Course Near His Md. Home; (2.66 / 3) (#223)
by yellow shark on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 01:58:41 AM EST

Sex Offender Arrested.

He was a pedophile with a long history of it. Most pedophiles are sex offenders.

That is all...

while this is very sad, (none / 1) (#229)
by zenofchai on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 03:11:09 AM EST

and i also believe pedophilia to be a very bad thing: "Most pedophiles are sex offenders"? How can you possibly attempt to claim this to be true.
--
The K5 Interactive Political Compass SVG Graph
[ Parent ]
darn it. (none / 1) (#230)
by zenofchai on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 04:11:56 AM EST

i'm assuming that you were using the definition of "pedophiles" that defines the word as meaning "sex offender" instead of the psychological disorder itself.
--
The K5 Interactive Political Compass SVG Graph
[ Parent ]
no he wasn't he was trolling (1.66 / 3) (#232)
by balsamic vinigga on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 11:15:57 AM EST

if he used pedophile to mean sex offender than "most" makes no sense..  

that would be like saying most gaterades are sports drinks..  no ALL gaterades are sports drinks.

---
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[ Parent ]

ok using that logic... (none / 1) (#245)
by yellow shark on Thu Aug 03, 2006 at 12:21:44 AM EST

all heterosexuals practice heterosexual sex right? And all homosexuals practice homosexual sex right?

so people are saying that all pedophiles dont practice pedosexual sex?

that dog dont hunt.

[ Parent ]

i'm pretty fucking sure (2.33 / 3) (#247)
by desu6 on Thu Aug 03, 2006 at 02:37:06 PM EST

you could find a lot of heterosexuals and homosexuals out there who have never had sex, and in their case it's even easier to do so since it's neither illegal nor immoral (well the homosexuals are immoral).

[ Parent ]
only immoral to some. (none / 0) (#256)
by agavero on Fri Aug 11, 2006 at 05:15:30 PM EST


"Our knowledge is a little island in a great ocean of nonknowledge." Isaac Bashevis Singer
[ Parent ]
see my sig link.. (none / 1) (#241)
by newb4b0 on Wed Aug 02, 2006 at 08:30:03 PM EST

for a perversion of justice.

http://www.netmoneychat.com| NetMoneyChat Forums. No Registration necessary. Ya'll.

and now, for some reality: (none / 0) (#250)
by circletimessquare on Fri Aug 04, 2006 at 04:21:55 PM EST

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/03/sex.ritual.ap/index.html

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

Who defines that a pedophile is? (none / 1) (#254)
by greggman on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 06:16:11 AM EST

Here in Japan you can buy books of 11 year old girls posing in bikini's in EVERY BOOK STORE IN JAPAN.

You can also buy comics of sex with children (ie, 5 years olds) in EVERY 7/11 and other convenience store.

In Japan and in France the legal age of consent was 14 for Japan and 15 for France until just recently (within 10 years)

As someone from the states the idea of sex with someone underage repulses me but living in Japan I see that idea is my culture, not theirs. Who am I to say theirs is wrong?

Even in the states in the 1800s it was not uncommon for people to get married as early as 12yrs old. No genetic evolution has changed humans in those last 200 years. Some how our culture changed to think under 18 should be illegal. Why? And what objective reason (vs subjective reason) is there for one age vs another?

It really shows you the power of culture (2.00 / 3) (#255)
by balsamic vinigga on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 12:42:58 PM EST

And how culture is like a collective fiction everybody buys into.  It's a lot like religion.  It's a lie, non-scientific, myth, whatever but we desperately need it to function as a species. It's the same force that also cultivates intolerance for people and things that are different.  For enlightened people or people who can start peeling back the layers of the onion - unusally smart or analytic people it's a major source of frustration, but at least for these people there's still a world of cultures out there to dabble in, which can be considered the bright side of the plight.

---
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[ Parent ]
it's a question of (none / 0) (#257)
by warrax on Sat Aug 12, 2006 at 05:06:59 PM EST

"thinking of the children", ie. political correctness (to varying degrees). That's all.

-- "Guns don't kill people. I kill people."
[ Parent ]
WIPO: "Who the fuck's Hillary Duff?" (none / 0) (#258)
by rodoke3 on Sat Aug 12, 2006 at 06:25:05 PM EST


I take umbrage with such statments and am induced to pull out archaic and over pompous words to refute such insipid vitriol. -- kerinsky


Perversion of Justice | 250 comments (236 topical, 14 editorial, 5 hidden)
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