Kuro5hin.org: technology and culture, from the trenches
create account | help/FAQ | contact | links | search | IRC | site news
[ Everything | Diaries | Technology | Science | Culture | Politics | Media | News | Internet | Op-Ed | Fiction | Meta | MLP ]
We need your support: buy an ad | premium membership

[P]
An Appeal To Moderate Islam

By circletimessquare in Op-Ed
Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 02:16:40 AM EST
Tags: humanism, nationalism, religious bigotry (all tags)

It is not the responsibility of non-Muslims to look past barbaric evil attack after barbaric evil attack and recognize that moderate Islam still exists. It is the responsibility of moderate Islam to rein in and destroy the madmen emanating from your societies. Are you too toothless or unwilling to do that?


One of the most salient observations about terrorists and their tactics is that to engage in their tactics is to lose all semblance of moral authority. Terrorists sully whatever cause they fight for. For if what they fought for had any moral integrity, their tactics wouldn't be engaged in. As such, terrorists, by their actions, defeat their own causes.

For example, Gandhi and Martin Luther King Junior preached nonviolence as a path to post-Colonial India and post-Racist America, and they won that, by winning world sympathy for their causes as British troops fired on peaceful Indian protestors, and Racist thugs murdered peaceful African American protestors. In the same way, it is world opinion that terrorists wish to manipulate with their actions, but by appealing to our worst instincts, not our best.

Terrorists do in fact move world opinion around, but it is all just churn. They reduce civilization to a state of quivering anger and fear, and there is something won in that, since it is in this state that terrorists find new recruits. But what they fight for: the return of the Caliphate, expansion of Islam, isn't advanced in the least in the minds of the rest of the world, and in fact moved against, to make sure that terrorists aren't rewarded with what they want.

In the end, their cause does not gain any sympathy or traction. If Fundamentalist Muslims peacefully marched on Israel for example, world opinion would probably move against Israel as it watched Israeli soldiers massacre peaceful protestors. But by engaging in evil tactics against Israel, terrorists simply win world support for Israel, by proving themselves to be, at the very least, no better than anything Israel does, and therefore relinquishing any moral authority or claim on Israeli lands in the eyes of the International community.

I call on moderate Muslims who believe in Humanist principles to transcend their national and religious interests to let the world know that terrorism does not speak for Islam. It is the duty of good Muslims to remove the cancer in their midst, if for no other reason than the people who suffer most for Muslim fundamentalists are moderate Muslims. For all of the headlines that grabs the world attention when Muslim xenophobes attack outside Muslim areas, it is still other Muslims who carry the greatest death toll and daily suffering due to the activities of madmen in their midst. It is not a pleasant duty. You will be branded as one who fights for the enemy, and you will be targetted, as any enlightened Muslim in Muslim lands already has.

Moderate Muslim: you understand what motivates the slime in your midst better than any of us. You rankle more than any of us when you see Western or Indian forces in Muslim lands. If you don't want to see that anymore, you have to step up. Religious bigotry is a bottomless pit of slime which constantly renews. All you need is arrogance and a feeling of superiority. And then "God" gives you the right to kill subhumans. Subhumans are anyone who doesn't believe as you do. Including moderate Muslims.

The number one victim of murderous Islamic fundamentalists is, always was, and always will be, other Muslims. Other Muslims who don't toe the ultra-strict line. A moderate Muslim is worse than an infidel, as they "should know better." And so they are job number one for murder. This is why the Middle East and Pakistan can't modernize, can't moderate its thought, can't get richer other than with oil receipts. Anyone who tries to think in enlightened ways: it is instant open season for assassination.

The West only seems to notice or care when fundamentalist Muslim religious bigots victimize the West, or Russia, or Bali, or Mumbai, or anywhere outside the Middle East and Pakistan. The truth is, there really has been no drop or increase in the avarice of Muslim fundamentalists, it is just usually pointed at home. The avarice of Fundamentalist assholes has simply been confined to their usual murdering grounds: their own neighborhood.

Al Qaeda and its kind don't actually represent their creed, Islam. In truth, they are pretty much the definition of evil on this planet. But they have become the International face of Islam. As a moderate Muslim, doesn't this make your blood boil? How can you let this continue?

Its not actually the fault of the West that this is all they see of Islam. The whole point of terrorism is to buy front page headlines. Its very effective in this way. So moderate Muslims really do need to be more vocal, to do more to defeat the fungal growth in their midst. And until moderate Muslims fight Al Qaeda more effectively, they will only see more death and destruction... not at the hands of the West, but at the hands of those responsible for the most Muslim deaths in this world, and always has been responsible for the most Muslim deaths, despite all the propaganda: your own fundamentalists. In big and small ways, you are eaten alive, the growth of the Muslim world confined to barbarism: an "indecent" woman stoned there, one commiting minor social transgressions like drinking alcohol or cutting beards murdered there, a progressive thinker who dare question Islam here. Every day, a daily rain of unconsciable death for insane reasons. Why aren't you doing something about that?

Even with 10 more Neocon American administrations invading 10 more Muslim countries, Al Qaeda would still claim the lions share of dead Muslims in this world. This doesn't jive with their recruiting propaganda, but it is true. A deranged young Muslim, angry at the actions of the West and recruited by Al Qaeda, will most likely have his or her first (and last) suicide bombing job to be: murder fellow Muslims. Sad and true. All in the name of keeping the moderate Muslim cowed, fearful, weak, and in line. The attack in Mumbai underscores the religious bigots' concern that India and Pakistan are moving towards peace. Peace is the environment in which religious fundamentalism dies. The victims of Mumbai live in Islamabad too: anyone who wants peace.

People really need to understand the nature of this cancer and how difficult it is to extinguish. But you, moderate Muslim, understand far better than any of us in India or the West. And if not Al Qaeda in name, we will be hearing about death and destruction from religious zealots for a long time to come. You must act.

The West went through World War I and II and saw what blind egotism and bigotry creates. It is nothing about Islam, really, in the end. The insanity of fundamentalist Islam is pretty much the same xenophobia and ethnocentric fascism as Nazism in 1930s Germany. Fundamentalist Muslim bigotry rather than nationalistic racism simply serves as the template that these maggots congeal around this time. Its really the same, the same fear of outsiders and feeling of superiority, based on arbitrary things like tribe, or race, or nation, or religious creed.

Unfortunately, i think the Islamic world needs to shed some blood before it is humbled by the rotten fruits of its own fury. Unfortunate but true. The passions hard at work in the Middle East and Pakistan right now will not fade away of their own accord. What will happen is some sort of Hitler will rise in the Muslim world, consolidate all that has inspired him, and wage holy war against all neighbors. After much death, and defeat, what rises from the ashes will have learned what bigotry reaps, and the age of the moderate Muslim will reign. Too many in the Islamic world right now do not realize what religious bigotry really reaps: your own downfall. The same downfall arrogance, egotism, racism, ultranationalism, tribalism always reaps, and always has throughout history.

I call upon moderate Muslims in the world to defeat the cancer in their midst by attacking the symbols and rationale that fundamentalist Muslims fight for. And if moderate Muslims do not do this?

Then we are moving closer and closer every day to World War III, in which billions around the globes will die due to the continued efforts of Muslim religious bigots. Which is what fundamentalist Muslims want. Moderate Muslims, don't let them get what they want. Stop suffering for their activities and strike against them.

Clean up the mess emanating from your societies, moderate Muslims, or the rest of the world will have to do it for you. Our patience does not last forever. Who is really in charge in your lands? Prove it is you, and do something about your madmen running amok, causing you poverty and suffering, even more than us.

If you don't, we will. We will have to, as you are proving to be toothless so far. We in the West and India do not have infinite patience. Clean up the garbage in your societies, dear moderate Muslim.

Sponsors

Voxel dot net
o Managed Hosting
o VoxCAST Content Delivery
o Raw Infrastructure

Login

Related Links
o Also by circletimessquare


Display: Sort:
An Appeal To Moderate Islam | 302 comments (283 topical, 19 editorial, 2 hidden)
Hi, circledrbronner (2.12 / 8) (#1)
by Ruston Rustov on Fri Nov 28, 2008 at 04:57:11 PM EST

Hirez horror footage or STFU.

I had had incurable open sores all over my feet for sixteen years. The doctors were powerless to do anything about it. I told my psychiatrist that they were psychosomatic Stigmata - the Stigmata are the wounds Jesus suffered when he was nailed to the cross. Three days later all my sores were gone. -- Michael Crawford
Maybe tomorrow. -- Michael Crawford
As soon as she has her first period, fuck your daughter. -- localroger

However (2.25 / 4) (#2)
by Ruston Rustov on Fri Nov 28, 2008 at 05:02:42 PM EST

Thank you for your effort to bring the Liberals into our crusade against the Mooselims.

There was a time not long ago when the Liberal establishment in this country was run by good foreign policy experts like Irving Kristol, Jeanne Kirkpatrick, Henry Jackson, and Joe Lieberman, men whose silly social beliefs did not diminish their faith in the power of America, and American Power. It is to your credit that you try to bring the Liberals back to this Golden Age viewpoint.

Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran, my brother.

I had had incurable open sores all over my feet for sixteen years. The doctors were powerless to do anything about it. I told my psychiatrist that they were psychosomatic Stigmata - the Stigmata are the wounds Jesus suffered when he was nailed to the cross. Three days later all my sores were gone. -- Michael Crawford
Maybe tomorrow. -- Michael Crawford
As soon as she has her first period, fuck your daughter. -- localroger

[ Parent ]
I call upon the Islamic world etc - Pure CTS (2.46 / 13) (#5)
by sausalito on Fri Nov 28, 2008 at 06:33:44 PM EST

Who the fuck do you think you are talking like Mahatma Gandhi, Nelson Mandela or Abraham Lincoln?

Because you know, they have (or had) the immense moral stature and track record of incredible achievements allowing them to credibly use this bombastic rhetorics.

You, on the other hand, sound like a drunken bum.

Perhaps I should update my signature.
_____________

GBH - "The whole point is that the App Store acts as a firewall between busy soccer moms and goatse links"

right (none / 1) (#7)
by circletimessquare on Fri Nov 28, 2008 at 07:30:08 PM EST

a troll can't talk about big concepts on kuro5hin

why?

because he doesn't have the permission of ANOTHER troll on kuro5hin to do that

oh please sausalito, i beg of your immense stature in this world as grand adjudicator of adequacy, for your blessings upon me, to allow me to think about and talk about this subject matter

god knows i won't be able to fucking TALK about terrorism or gandhi without your permission

what am i allowed to talk about in your eyes asshole? shopping specials at the mall? is this all you concern yourself with? oh, you think about this subject matter to?

oh, how dare you! you have no right!

fucking piece of shit


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

I talk about the tone nigger, not the content $ (2.25 / 4) (#23)
by sausalito on Sat Nov 29, 2008 at 07:58:44 AM EST


_____________

GBH - "The whole point is that the App Store acts as a firewall between busy soccer moms and goatse links"
[ Parent ]

Your logic is faulty (2.80 / 5) (#8)
by alba on Fri Nov 28, 2008 at 08:47:27 PM EST

Ghandi and Mandela fought against modern Western governments.
The so called Islamists fight against backwards third world regimes.
Different enemies, different methods, different times.

dude. mumbai. 9/11. not in islamabad or cairo (3.00 / 4) (#9)
by circletimessquare on Fri Nov 28, 2008 at 09:18:28 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
the paedophile prophet would approve mumbai (none / 1) (#186)
by tomcpp on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 08:17:58 AM EST

But the very core of islam is spreading it with attacks, wars, raping and so on. That's how islam started, with religious genocides killing over 12000 people. That's how it spread over the world.

Islam IS mumbai, 9/11, london, barcelona, ... There is nothing outside of that.

That is, after all, what the islamic prophet did. Calling on muslims to abandon that is calling on muslims to call mohamed a massacrer. To call islam a death cult.

Of course it's the truth that islam is a death cult and it's founder a paedophilic massacrer.

[ Parent ]

actually no, spread opposite way of christianity (2.50 / 2) (#188)
by circletimessquare on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 08:36:55 AM EST

that is christianity at first spread via peaceful conversion, through the roman empire, then later, via colonialism, it spread via military force

meanwhile, islam spread at first via military invasion, through the middle east and persia, then later, through india and indonesia, it spread via peaceful conversion

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

"peaceful conversion" muslim-style (none / 0) (#290)
by tomcpp on Thu Jan 01, 2009 at 07:38:04 AM EST

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/schoolgirls-beheaded-in-grisly-indonesian-attac k/2005/10/29/1130400398091.html

There is NO place where islam spread peaceful. There lots of claims, but upon closer inspection the rotten core of the paedophilic faith always surfaces.

The very core of islam "hisbah" is "to FORCE good and to FORBID evil" (good and evil as defined by the paedophile prophet : killing children is good, telling muslims the truth about evolution : bad). It's violent to the core.

[ Parent ]

hey, retard (none / 0) (#291)
by circletimessquare on Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 03:59:22 AM EST

christianity is violent to the core to the same degree as islam

admit that, and i will accept your depiction of islam above as balanced

rather than just the bleating of an ethnocentric turd


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

The problem with this is that (3.00 / 8) (#12)
by xC0000005 on Fri Nov 28, 2008 at 11:17:07 PM EST

moderate islamians who try to assault radical islamancers wind up getting bombed by the radicals. "I call on you to piss off the group that mostly ignores you in order to stop them from assaulting people you don't really care one way or the other about."

Voice of the Hive - Beekeeping and Bees for those who don't
i agree with you 100% (2.00 / 3) (#13)
by circletimessquare on Fri Nov 28, 2008 at 11:31:43 PM EST

and so, it's world war iii

moderate moslems, as woefully unmotivated as you accurately describe, are our last hope


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

typical CTS nonsense (2.83 / 6) (#14)
by balsamic vinigga on Sat Nov 29, 2008 at 12:23:24 AM EST

moderate muslim? I guess you mean affluent muslim? As in, muslims that have the voice or means to do anything besides live a simple life praying for the silly violence to stop?

Hmmm where can we find such affluent muslims? Saudis? Right, like the Saudi elite are "moderate"?? Iran? As if they are able to take a breath from their tumultuous history? What about the affluent muslims in the west and India? Oh wait, your article seems to dismiss them without even acknowledging them, as though the west and india are different and unmuslim?

So who exactly are you urging action from CTS? The poor masses along the pakistan border? Those in Afghanistan? War torn Iraqis?

You rant is completely ill conceived and nonsensical. It's fucking really hard to make sense of.

---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!

any of them.all of them.do you know anyone better? (none / 1) (#15)
by circletimessquare on Sat Nov 29, 2008 at 12:30:44 AM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
i just don't understand why you would (2.71 / 7) (#16)
by balsamic vinigga on Sat Nov 29, 2008 at 12:35:07 AM EST

fight fire with fire? Why turn it into a religious war..  with the onus on those of a certain religion. You sound as ridiculous calling upon "moderate islam" as, say, ann coulter calling on christianity to end the scourge of fundamentalist muslims.

Yes they might be fighting with religion on their side..  but it's in the hands of any human being to answer back. It's not a religious responsibility. It's a humanitarian responsibility. For those who would work to end violence and hate and intolerance, I care not what god they pray to, if any. And neither should you. But you're a batshit insane fucktard so rock on with your asinine rants.

---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!
[ Parent ]

do you have a solution? (none / 1) (#17)
by circletimessquare on Sat Nov 29, 2008 at 01:20:38 AM EST

go ahead, tell me a better solution. or your criticism of mine is invalid. it does not matter how much my solution sucks, if there is none better

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
what's YOUR solution? (2.50 / 6) (#18)
by balsamic vinigga on Sat Nov 29, 2008 at 01:35:26 AM EST

you don't fucking have one. all you do is rant and rave about moderate muslims without identifying what you mean by moderate muslim besides those that aren't in the western world or india...

you tell them to do something but don't help them out an hat it is they should do. It's total bullshit.

Then, get this... THEN you seem to think that killing a handful of people each year with suicide bombings and attacks in mumbai puts us at risk of wwiii? dude what the FUCK are you smoking? What'? Because some of those people they attack happen to be american, israeli or western european it's going to cause WWIII?

Yes for the first time in a long fucking time the sheltered west is having to suffer now and then. But guess what fucknut, while you were sitting there with one thumb up your ass and the other thumb pointing at this vague notion of "moderate muslim" hundreds of thousands of blacks were being slaughtered in a genocide orchestrated by the Sudanese govt.  Oh but because CNN showed hotels burning in mumbai for 1 and a half days, and only has ticker tape about school girls in darfur being handcuffed in their schools and burned to alive.. you start ranting about moderate muslims needing to do something. What would I do? If i'd do anything it wouldn't be pointing my finger to other people and demanding they do something... i'd, get this, DO SOMETHING. And I'd probably do it where I think it's most urgently needed. Which is not preventing a couple hundred deaths from the next impotent attack from fundamentalist islam, but ending a govt. sponsored genocide...  or other mass scale atrocities.

You're such a CNN brainwashed sorry excuse for a person you can't even begin to understand my painfully clear point.

"WAHHHHHHH MODERATE MUSLIMS DO SMOETHING TO SAVE US FROM WWIII  :'(  I'M SO SCARED AND HELPLESS DO SOMETHING!!!!!111"

NEGATIVE-FUCKING-ONE, ASSHOLE

---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!
[ Parent ]

zzz (none / 1) (#19)
by circletimessquare on Sat Nov 29, 2008 at 02:58:08 AM EST

moderate muslims need to reign in the madmen from their societies

or not

and things will get worse and worse

its in the story above

now say something better than that, or shut the fuck up

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

ok let's start by reigning in Cat Stevens (2.60 / 5) (#27)
by balsamic vinigga on Sat Nov 29, 2008 at 11:29:00 AM EST

who is pretty batty with islam. Get him to release another pop record and the world will be safe.

If you look at any war attributed to religion it's not hard to see that there are politics at play..  religion is merely a tool used to manipulate and orchestrate people into fighting...  as is patriotism, etc. The political issues can be addressed, and should be, before fundamentalist islam is. Just finally coming to a compromise in Israel would do a lot.

A lot of the suicide bombers live in poverty and solitude. Increase the quality of life in these areas and violence will go down.

There are plenty of fundamentalist muslims living in affluence who are content and not prone to jihad. If you take away islam as a tool to motivate fighters it'll just get replaced by something else.

All this islamic fear mongering you're doing CTS is idiotic to say the least. You been listening to Savage and Limbaugh?

---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!
[ Parent ]

poor propagandized fool (none / 1) (#36)
by circletimessquare on Sat Nov 29, 2008 at 09:53:04 PM EST

"A lot of the suicide bombers live in poverty and solitude. Increase the quality of life in these areas and violence will go down.

There are plenty of fundamentalist muslims living in affluence who are content and not prone to jihad. If you take away islam as a tool to motivate fighters it'll just get replaced by something else."

all the 9/11 hijackers were upper middle class, fucking retard

and yes, religion is retarded. which doesn't mean fucking squat you fucking moron, when you trying to devise an EFFECTIVE solution to a genuine PROBLEM

now, oh great swami, tell us a superior solution to the regular drumbeat of assholes coming out of the moslem world and killing nonmoslems, or shut. the. fuck. up. you fucking piece of shit
]

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

ok fine (2.66 / 3) (#45)
by balsamic vinigga on Sun Nov 30, 2008 at 08:18:59 AM EST

but why do you think a steady series of suicide missions is at risk of blowing up into wwiii?

everybody besides you seems to think the solution is to get off foreign oil. That way the US no longer has to maintain its empire in the middle east to remain the world's super power. If we cease imperial activity then political motivation to attack us will wain. And since it's politics not religion that is the root of violence, it will eventually stop....  well there'll always be the palestinian/israeli conflict but that wont ever become wwiii.

So please, moderate muslims, invent a clean sustainable energy solution.

---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!
[ Parent ]

i also believe we should get off foreign oil (none / 1) (#55)
by circletimessquare on Sun Nov 30, 2008 at 03:57:05 PM EST

as if it is as simple as that, or that simply never using oil is as easy to do as getting moderate muslims to be more vocal and assertive

both goals: gettign off foreign oil, and getting moderate muslims to be more assertive, are kind of incredibly difficult

which saddens me: world war iii will result unless either incredibly difficult scenario does not happen

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

yeah, see (none / 1) (#146)
by nononoitaintmebabe on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:02:41 PM EST

religion might be a tool.  but the thing cts is thinking about here is taking that same tool and USING it against those who would use it for evil purposes. or at the very least not let them USE your religion as a toolfor evil purposes. don't LET it be aligned with evil.   that's his whole point, i think.  

and quite honestly, i think he's right.  i think that they (moderate muslims)  DO need to stand up.  not for our sakes, but for the fact that IF their religion really means anything to them at all, they ought to be pissed off as hell and fight back for it.  

[ Parent ]

you give CTS too much credit (2.33 / 3) (#147)
by balsamic vinigga on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 10:33:58 PM EST

his article is about him believing that unless the moderates fight for more and more islamic capital, the capital will all go to the fundamentalists, and soon 30%+ of the world's population will become batshit insane warriors of Allah and spark world war III.

Moderate muslims already speak out to say that they disagree and it's not the islam that they know. That's all that can be expected of them. How is it anymore their job than any other humanitarian to fight back against those that use islam to motivate terrorists?

And CTS's fear that 30% will all go batshit and it'll be WWIII is just islamic fear mongering fit for only Savage, Limbaugh, and CTS, and other idiotic pundits.

---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!
[ Parent ]

how many germans were nazis? (none / 1) (#150)
by circletimessquare on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 11:17:09 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
your point? (2.50 / 2) (#151)
by balsamic vinigga on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 11:20:49 PM EST

you realize german is a nationality, not a religion, right?

And that Nazi was a political party not a fundamentalist religious sect, right?

---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!
[ Parent ]

"And CTSs fear that 30% will go batshit .. (none / 1) (#153)
by circletimessquare on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 01:40:45 AM EST

no. more like 2%. like the nazis. the rest will just turn a blind eye and make excuses. like german under nazism. doesn't take much. what the islamonazis and the german nazis have in common is lots of passion, and will to power by any means

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
The NSDAP got 43,9 % of the popular vote (3.00 / 2) (#182)
by alba on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 01:11:28 PM EST

in the last free elections on 1933-03-05.

In "The Origins of Totalitarianism" Hannah Arendt makes the point that totalitarian rule can be established only after a significant part of society is thoroughly alienated.

In Germany this happened through WWI, the Treaty of Versailles, the Great Depression, and the moral breakdown of democratic parties. For sure any similarities to the situation in the Middle East are purely coincidental.

[ Parent ]

"For sure any similarities to the situation (none / 1) (#183)
by circletimessquare on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 01:54:40 PM EST

in the Middle East are purely coincidental"

(smirk)

are you listening to the inevitability of history morons?


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Excellent (2.63 / 11) (#29)
by Vampire Zombie Abu Musab al Zarqawi on Sat Nov 29, 2008 at 03:31:06 PM EST

When I saw there was a story in the voting queue, I thought: "Exactly what I wanted, something to vote down!" But I never thought it would be something so deserving. Well done, cts.

I can't believe you retards got trolled into (2.75 / 4) (#104)
by anaesthetica on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 02:30:07 PM EST

autoposting this due to # of comments. That's the only way CTS can get an arrogant ignorant troll to FP and you fucking fed the troll. Goddamn.

—I'm the little engine that didn't.
k5: our trolls go to eleven
[A]S FAR AS A PERSON'S ACTIONS ARE CONCERNED, IT IS NOT TRUE THAT NOTHING BUT GOOD COMES FROM GOOD AND NOTHING BUT EVIL COMES FROM EVIL, BUT RATHER QUITE FREQUENTLY THE OPPOSITE IS THE CASE. ANYONE WHO DOES NOT REALIZE THIS IS IN FACT A MERE CHILD IN POLITICAL MATTERS. max weber, politics as a vocation


[ Parent ]
It harms no one but cts (3.00 / 3) (#105)
by Vampire Zombie Abu Musab al Zarqawi on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 02:33:18 PM EST

Oh, and a certain dead web site.

[ Parent ]
Unfortunately, Islamo-fascism (1.66 / 3) (#30)
by mybostinks on Sat Nov 29, 2008 at 04:47:44 PM EST

will only grow in the future. This  will be due in large part to the eventual  downfall of the corrupt Saudi Kingdom. It will occur much like it did in Iran after the fall of the Shah.

Extremists are well funded, well organized and fundamentalism appeals to many neophyte muslims. Islamo-facist takeover of Saudi will be complete under our own noses and will cause world wide instability and terror. I would not want to be a European when that happens.

The Islamo-fascists see us as weak and morally corrupt; values which are sadly true.

There's another theory (none / 1) (#32)
by alba on Sat Nov 29, 2008 at 05:06:18 PM EST

Once the "Islamo-facists" take over government they will become just another government.

The biggest problem of Iran is rapid population growth and economic inefficiency.
Those poor suckers just want a bit of respect.

[ Parent ]

yeah. i want respect too (none / 1) (#40)
by circletimessquare on Sat Nov 29, 2008 at 10:15:43 PM EST

will i get it by mass murder too?

you're a fucking idiot


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Think of Jeanne d'Arc (2.50 / 2) (#43)
by alba on Sun Nov 30, 2008 at 07:02:03 AM EST

At a time when the English had almost won the Hundred Years' War a miracle happened.
A single girl, claiming to get visions from god, inspired the troops to attack the hitherto invincible enemy.
Without this outbreak of religious fanatism there would have been no France.

[ Parent ]
this is all true (none / 1) (#54)
by circletimessquare on Sun Nov 30, 2008 at 03:54:39 PM EST

and what a grand tragedy that france came to exist

i'm joking, but in all seriousness, joan was fighting for freedom on her homeland, she wasn't landing in rubbey dinghies in london and stuffing grenades in innocent people's mouths


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Modern times (2.50 / 2) (#57)
by alba on Sun Nov 30, 2008 at 06:06:49 PM EST

The West scrupulously used its superiority when it required a large industrial infrastructure to do massacres on the other side of the world.

But intercontinental travelling has become cheap. As have electronics, explosives and rocket propelled grenades. Everyone can now do "shock and awe".

The West still has a distinct edge on genocide, though. Which makes this whole "war on terror" a silly thing. In a real war we would just nuke them. What we have instead is a scheme to shovel tax payer's money to useless security contracts.

And just like trickle down economics this requires massive bullshit to sell to voters. You are a tool, cts.

[ Parent ]

oh ok, i got it now (none / 1) (#62)
by circletimessquare on Sun Nov 30, 2008 at 07:25:35 PM EST

see, i always thought that if the usa disappeared into a lake tomorrow, or even better, never existed, religious bigots would go right on massacring

but thanks to you, now i know that religious bigotry requires the existence of the usa in order to function

that's really cool, totally changes my perspective

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

what you don't get is, is the converse of every (2.00 / 2) (#75)
by procrasti on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 05:23:22 AM EST

statement you make is also true:

If the religious bigots disappeared into a lake tomorrow, or even better, never existed, the usa would go right on massacring.

but thanks to you, now i know that nationalist american bigotry requires the existence of religious extremism in order to function

that's really cool, totally changes my perspective.

-------
if i ever see the nickname procrasti again on this site or anywhere in my life, i want it to be in an OBITUARY -- CTS
doing my best at licking arseholes - may 2015 -- mirko
-------
Winner of Kuro5hin: April 2015
[ Parent ]

yeah, you got it (none / 1) (#81)
by circletimessquare on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 07:41:33 AM EST

everything is completely equivalent. there's no differences on two sides of a conflict. its just force versus force. no need to pick sides, no need to examine the issues, its all the same

awesome dude. i wish i could go through life that mentally tone deaf


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Because invading muslim countries for their oil (2.00 / 2) (#82)
by procrasti on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 08:02:10 AM EST

is morally right. It is the right of the FREE to ensure access to cheap oil through military and geopolitical control. Those who oppose freedom are our enemies and must die.

Not only is the situation not equivalent, its so one sided in their favour as to make their actions (ALMOST) justifiable. Muslims Freedom Fighters vs the US... David vs Goliath.

i wish i could go through life that mentally tone deaf
you exceed your own desires, grasshopper.

-------
if i ever see the nickname procrasti again on this site or anywhere in my life, i want it to be in an OBITUARY -- CTS
doing my best at licking arseholes - may 2015 -- mirko
-------
Winner of Kuro5hin: April 2015
[ Parent ]

i'm sorry (2.00 / 2) (#83)
by circletimessquare on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 08:21:01 AM EST

i couldn't hear you above my diabolical laughter as i drank some more oil from the skulls of iraqi children

dude: your understanding of why the usa involved is cartoonish. your thinking is cartoonish. you're a retard

but don't mind me, i'm obviously a neocon propaganda victim

now you will excuse me, i have to go suck dick cheney's dick

am i adequately portraying the cartoonish way you think of the usa?

low iq ignorant retard

the world is SLIGHTLY more complicated than you understand it, fucking moron


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

You explain nothing here... expect your ignorance. (none / 1) (#84)
by procrasti on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 08:30:15 AM EST

The US is drinking oil from the skulls of Iraqi children.

You just don't care because you don't see it directly. You enjoy the benefits, but you don't know the costs... Just externalities you can blame the other side for.

-------
if i ever see the nickname procrasti again on this site or anywhere in my life, i want it to be in an OBITUARY -- CTS
doing my best at licking arseholes - may 2015 -- mirko
-------
Winner of Kuro5hin: April 2015
[ Parent ]

ok, score card: (3.00 / 2) (#86)
by circletimessquare on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 08:42:42 AM EST

muslim fanatics just massacred hundreds in mumbai

you say it is the usa's fault for wanting oil

i say its because fundamentalist intolerant bigots want to stoke war between india and pakistan

why don't we leave it at that

i don't see much chance of me poking through your thick accretion of delusions in this thread

but here's one last shot:

don't listen to me, listen to muslims...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27986778/

Throughout the Muslim world, the attacks set off soul-searching.

"I think that Muslims should raise their voice against such actions. They should forge a coalition to fight such phenomena, because it harms them and damages their image," said Ali Abdel Muhsen, 22, a Muslim engineering student in the West Bank city of Nablus.

Muslims and Arabs must confront the violence "that is taking place in our name and in the name of our (Islamic) tenets," wrote Khaled al-Jenfawi, a columnist for Kuwait's Al-Seyassah daily.

"Unfortunately, we have yet to see a distinguished popular condemnation in the traditional Arab or Muslim communities that strongly rejects what is happening in the name of Islam or Arab nationalism," wrote al-Jenfawi.



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
And YET AGAIN the converse is true (3.00 / 2) (#87)
by procrasti on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 10:04:46 AM EST

Except scorecard: US 100s of THOUSANDS, FUCKSTICK. You are thousands of times more efficient at killing is ALL.

And what were the US anti-iraq war protests if it wasn't the same line of thought:

Throughout the Western world, the attacks set off soul-searching.

"I think that Westerners should raise their voice against such actions. They should forge a coalition to fight such phenomena, because it harms them and damages their image,"

Americans and Westerners must confront the violence "that is taking place in our name and in the name of our (Democratic) tenets,"

"Unfortunately, we have yet to see a distinguished popular condemnation in the traditional Western or American communities that strongly rejects what is happening in the name of Democracy or American nationalism,"

Hundreds vs Hundreds of thousands.

These terrorists are fucksticks of the highest order... but to ignore your own society's faults is a greater evil. Its the definition of nationalism you tribalistic fuck.

-------
if i ever see the nickname procrasti again on this site or anywhere in my life, i want it to be in an OBITUARY -- CTS
doing my best at licking arseholes - may 2015 -- mirko
-------
Winner of Kuro5hin: April 2015
[ Parent ]

go to mumbai (none / 1) (#92)
by circletimessquare on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 10:21:18 AM EST

tell them about the equivalency your putrid mind proposes

then await your enlightenment. it may be in the form of saliva applied to your face

the way you think is of the densest stupidity

no, asswipe, its not equivalent. in about a thousand different ways, on a thousand different levels


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

I really liked this line... (2.50 / 2) (#93)
by procrasti on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 10:47:33 AM EST

Moderate American: you understand what motivates the slime in your midst better than any of us. You rankle more than any of us when you see Muslim or Eastern forces in American lands. If you don't want to see that anymore, you have to step up. Nationalistic bigotry is a bottomless pit of slime which constantly renews. All you need is arrogance and a feeling of superiority. And then "God/Might" gives you the right to kill and destroy subhumans. Subhumans are anyone who doesn't believe as you do. Including moderate Americans.

You had Muslim forces in your land for ONE FUCKING DAY... and look how YOU rankle... Poor me... my office felled over... wah wah wah...

And then for 7 fucking YEARS you attack!! Killing HUNDREDS OF TIMES MORE PEOPLE.

You go to Iran/Pakistan/Afganistan and tell them of your AMERICAN MORAL SUPERIORITY... and you'll be lucky to be spat on.

You fight for the American World Power, Super Power, World Police and spreaders of Democracy by the gun and the bomb... that's not as far away from, and in ways worse than, Fundamentalist Muslim ideology as you'd like to think.

-------
if i ever see the nickname procrasti again on this site or anywhere in my life, i want it to be in an OBITUARY -- CTS
doing my best at licking arseholes - may 2015 -- mirko
-------
Winner of Kuro5hin: April 2015
[ Parent ]

zzz (none / 1) (#97)
by circletimessquare on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 12:35:41 PM EST

here's some concepts:

  1. middle eastern interests

  2. western interests

  3. humanistic interests

you attack #2

i'm #3

when you are ready to address me, and what i say, come talk to me

if you want to continue to attack #2, go ahead. but you don't even begin to address what i am saying

my words are formed solely from a basis for concern for humanist principles. they require no western agenda, they are not supported by a western agenda, they do not support a western agenda

understand retard?

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

If that were TRUE you would AGREE with me (2.50 / 2) (#99)
by procrasti on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 01:18:46 PM EST

that everything you say in this article is also true, and in some ways even more so, of the west... You would apply your standards equally.

You can't even apply them to yourself. (s/alcohol/cocaine/g, s/beards/lines/g).

The point you miss is that you cannot ask JUST ONE SIDE for peace. Peace REQUIRES both sides. You can start a unilateral war, but you can't have unilateral peace. Peace is much MUCH harder, and wars don't always end when you want them to.

Actually... as the guys you mentioned proved... you need INFINITE patience in a world of violence to make lasting change. The other option is groups fighting impossible odds... and winning. Guess which culture you're in now... 'moderate humanist'. Afterall, its up to YOU to remove the slime within YOUR midst, wouldn't you agree?

-------
if i ever see the nickname procrasti again on this site or anywhere in my life, i want it to be in an OBITUARY -- CTS
doing my best at licking arseholes - may 2015 -- mirko
-------
Winner of Kuro5hin: April 2015
[ Parent ]

retard (2.50 / 2) (#101)
by circletimessquare on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 01:52:25 PM EST

if the west did not exist, religious bigots woudl still be doing exactly the same thing they are doing to day

they ethnocentrism and stupidity of your position is that religious bigots require the existence of the wes tin order to be doing what they are doing

no, fucktard. all they require is what they already have: their own agenda. its about hating anyone not of your own religious persuasion. that could be the west, russia, china, africa, etc.: anyone who is a fundamentalist muslim

get it you fucking blind brain dead fuck?


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

but say it properly, 'moderate humanist' (1.00 / 2) (#108)
by procrasti on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 02:58:45 PM EST

if religious big ots did not exist, the west woudl still be doing exaktly the same thing they are doing to day

they ethnocentrism and stupidity of your position is that the wes trequire the existence of religious bigots in order to be doing what they are doing.

no, fucktard. all they require is what they already have: their own agenda. its about hating anyone not of your own social group, belief or persuasion, its about control of resources and pure power. THE OTHER, THE ELSE, THE ENEMY. that could be the middle east, pakistan etc.: and anyone who defends their lands from our invasion, and even moderate humanists who dare think for themselves in their own lands... 'moderate humanist'.

get it you fucking blind brain dead fuck?
I think there's like a blind spot in my mind that just cannot see the point of this troll... other than to bring to light my amazing insight. Do you think yourself funny or clever (you are if you are some amazing type of markov generator)? You know there ARE people who think like that, right? And that you just encourage them with your trolling... until they're bombing every muslim village / town / city / country, just to be sure they can be safe and have peace... oh wait.

-------
if i ever see the nickname procrasti again on this site or anywhere in my life, i want it to be in an OBITUARY -- CTS
doing my best at licking arseholes - may 2015 -- mirko
-------
Winner of Kuro5hin: April 2015
[ Parent ]

you're pure win (none / 1) (#117)
by circletimessquare on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 04:48:45 PM EST

the short circuit in your brain stands in sharp relief to us all

keep it up twatstain, trumpet your stupidity louder, let us all see you for what you are


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Discourage (1) - Trolling provokes bomings? (none / 1) (#122)
by schlouse on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 05:07:52 PM EST



[ Parent ]
No, trolling didn't provoke these bombings... (none / 1) (#131)
by procrasti on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 07:02:04 PM EST

but this troll encourages and applauds the bombing the west/india/whoever is going to do in response to this tragedy. Lots of people who didn't do these bombings, WOULDN'T do these types of bombings are going to be killed by people far away.... hooray...

-------
if i ever see the nickname procrasti again on this site or anywhere in my life, i want it to be in an OBITUARY -- CTS
doing my best at licking arseholes - may 2015 -- mirko
-------
Winner of Kuro5hin: April 2015
[ Parent ]
But if it weren't (3.00 / 2) (#91)
by Sgt York on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 10:16:27 AM EST

for violent opposition by a zealous religious base, we (US) would probably use other means to control those fields. It's not military and geopolitical control, it's military and/or geopolitical control.

I'm not saying US oil companies would become suddenly ultra-moral selfless humanitarian saints, just that they'd take control in a less obvious and (more importantly) cheaper manner. Like buying people off.

In a climate where someone can be assassinated because he violated some perceived precept of a radical splinter denomination, or blown up because he was near somebody who violated some precept, buying people off gets repetitious and unreliable.

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.
[ Parent ]

The US has been doing the control long before (2.50 / 2) (#95)
by procrasti on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 12:02:49 PM EST

the terrorists were blowing themselves up.

When the US gets involved in geopolitical control, its not oil companies buying out land owners and making fair trades with people, its not by convincing people through free speech...

In reality its the US government in covert (and/or overt) operations, breaking laws, destroying property and infrastructure, bribing, corrupting and subverting local groups and powers. The chaos is used to over throw even democratically elected governments to put into power governments that can be controlled by or are 'friendly' to the US... IMPORTANTLY: not a government of and for the people.

When democracy is subverted like that, people suffer. Real violence is done, real people die... People are displaced, impoverished and starved... What then arises from the voiceless, powerless masses, subjugated and violated? Peace or Violence?

Islam is just a kind of glue, a solidarity.

-------
if i ever see the nickname procrasti again on this site or anywhere in my life, i want it to be in an OBITUARY -- CTS
doing my best at licking arseholes - may 2015 -- mirko
-------
Winner of Kuro5hin: April 2015
[ Parent ]

Only b/c the suicide bomb (3.00 / 4) (#100)
by Sgt York on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 01:29:45 PM EST

is a recent invention. The Barbary pirates were displaced Muslims (Moors kicked out of Spain), and they were engaged in "terrorism" before the US or even word "terrorism" existed.

I explicitly stated that the result would not be morality. If there were no oil in the area, it would be like Africa. If there was no US presence in the area, religion would still be corrupted and exploited for power. The west would simply sit back and let it all happen. That's not specific to Islam, the Middle East, or anything else except the nature of man.

No, the US is certainly not blameless. The US fucked up Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia. If you replace US with the West, we fucked up the whole damn region pretty damn well. But you paint a very one-sided picture, the blameless victims of the evil US acting out in the only way they can. And that is bullshit. Both sides are very much to blame, and trying to come up with who started what is just going to wind up digging back to antiquity, and tell us nothing about how to fix things today. Look at India; they got screwed over just as hard as the middle east, but they've done quite well for themselves.

Yes, Islam is a glue for the group, so is anger at the US/west. But the goal is as simply evil as the goal of those who started the subversion in the first place: Gain of personal power.

Neither side is blameless. Both sides have done (and still do) evil. The sooner we realize and admit that, the sooner we can move away from this bullshit, instigating, worse than useless finger pointing and solve the damn problem.

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.
[ Parent ]

Not much I can disagree with (2.66 / 3) (#102)
by procrasti on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 02:14:51 PM EST

but, I'll work with it...

The only other questions that remain are power imbalance and preaching to the 'other side' when you share the very same problems. This is why this article is so awful.

I think after 9/11 the US missed a great opportunity to NOT go to war... that would have stunned the world... a full criminal (international) police investigation, shutting down those directly involved in criminal acts, as and how you get to them, not shock and awe and by torturing and slaughtering goat farmers and bystanders.

Those who continue to attack today would know they had NO power over us, they would know no matter what, we really were invincible, unfaltering... instead all our societies changed (for the worse, so far, imho) because of those fucks, but they didn't do it, WE DID.

Power Imbalance: Its not the chinese student's moral duty to get out of the way of the tank, nor to not attack it. The US/West is a monster tearing through the entire lives of these people.

-------
if i ever see the nickname procrasti again on this site or anywhere in my life, i want it to be in an OBITUARY -- CTS
doing my best at licking arseholes - may 2015 -- mirko
-------
Winner of Kuro5hin: April 2015
[ Parent ]

it blows my mind (none / 1) (#103)
by circletimessquare on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 02:24:59 PM EST

how, after muslim fanatics murder hundreds in mumbai, the best your obsessed mind can regurgitate is that it is because the west is a monster

its the very definition of propaganda addled lameness

dear severely clueless fucktard: the agenda of muslim fanatics is its own invention. it does not require the west to exist. most explicitly so, someone with the slightest level of iq would seem to be able to recognize, when the west isn't even the fucking target!

but no. in your mind, india gets attacked... "well, its because of american neocons"

breathlessly mindnumbingly obsessed and fucking stupid

religious bigotry lashes out at the "other", whatever the "other" is: russia, china, india, the west: all are valid targets. simply because they are not muslim lands. beginning and ending of the rationale of muslim fanaticism. it is an original agenda whose sole ideological prerequisite is simple xenophobia, hate and fear of the "other". muslim fanaticism does NOT require the existence of the west. it is just as easily pointed at bali, or mumbai, or moscow or beijing

one would thik these conceptsd are fucking obvious

one is amazed to find utterly clueless fucks like you still around, spewing your nonsense, when the west ISN'T EVEN THE FUCKING TARGET

but no, your bias and prejudice and blindness and propaganda addled mind can't even begin to comprehend a world where the focus is not the west

you are truly the fucking poster boy for ignorant blindness


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Yes, yes, answered elsewhere (swap everything) (none / 1) (#110)
by procrasti on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 03:46:32 PM EST

The terrorists made their move.

Actually, now the question is, how will india respond... (with support no doubt, from whom?) Undoubtedly by calling for war and killing lots of unrelated bystanders to get to the few crazed people who set this up. Its only fair that we do it too and its only fair when we do it. Yeah, we should do MORE of it too, that'll teach em. WAR!

So, who you gonna ask for peace now?

Call for peace where it will have the most effect... first in yourself, then your family and friends, society at large, your online 'life', your government(s), friendly governments... etc...

then preach to another society and belief system you have little understanding of or intent of peace about peace and understanding when you have no fucking understanding or peace yourself, fuckwit.

-------
if i ever see the nickname procrasti again on this site or anywhere in my life, i want it to be in an OBITUARY -- CTS
doing my best at licking arseholes - may 2015 -- mirko
-------
Winner of Kuro5hin: April 2015
[ Parent ]

go back for 500 years (none / 1) (#114)
by circletimessquare on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 04:43:47 PM EST

find me a single day without news from somewhere of a religious fanatic killing someone for utterly retarded reasons

it's not a "few crazed people" asswipe, it is an endemci deeply rooted stupidity

its a quagmire that europe dragged itself out of during the enlightenment. oh certainly, it still happens in the west: religious fucktards killing in the name of fuckall, but in the islamic world, even though they birthed much of modern science and philosophy and reason while europeans were busy braining each other with maces for retarded tribal and religiou reasons during the middle ages, since then, the muslim world has stalled, and remained rooted and even slid back further into religious clap trap

and religious idiocy is not going away in the muslim world in recent years, it is in fact heating up in the muslim world. if you don't see this, your blinders are made of 6 inch thick concrete

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

s/religious fanatic/US government agent/ (1.33 / 3) (#120)
by procrasti on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 05:01:48 PM EST

Of course its heating up... you heated it up and your solution is to put more fire on it till they calm the fuck down.

How many pakistani weddings do we have to air strike before they fucking get it? WE MEAN PEACE!

-------
if i ever see the nickname procrasti again on this site or anywhere in my life, i want it to be in an OBITUARY -- CTS
doing my best at licking arseholes - may 2015 -- mirko
-------
Winner of Kuro5hin: April 2015
[ Parent ]

that's what i'm talking about (none / 1) (#124)
by circletimessquare on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 05:44:37 PM EST

keep making that comparison

announce louder your fucking ignorance


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

I applaud your efforts (3.00 / 2) (#107)
by Sgt York on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 02:40:17 PM EST

to seek something to disagree with. Pure internet.

The US, I think, was fully justified in going to war in Afghanistan. I don't like it, but I don't see any other way it could have been done. bin Laden was known to be hiding there (that intel was correct), and the government wouldn't allow any real manhunt in their territory. A covert op would have been a nice start, but who's to say they didn't try and fail at that first? The guy has to be taken out of play; he's dangerous. Not that the end result was any better, but it could have been if the thing had been done properly from the get-go.

Iraq is another issue entirely. Terrorism was only a thin cover story there. War there was a near-certainty at some point, but it was not inevitable in 2003. It was a long shot, but it could have been possible to solve the real problems peacefully. And I'm with you on the transformation of US society for the worse as a result of all this.

No, it is not the Chinese student's moral authority to move away from the tank. And he is well within his rights to toss a molotov cocktail on it. It is not, however, his right to run from the tank and burn down a few buildings to show his displeasure.

The Chinese student did the right thing; take the stand against the evil, not repay evil with more evil. When you just go out in an impotent rage, all you get is destruction, and the loss of progress. I understand the motivation, but I condemn the action. Violence is never justified except in defense. And even then only if it can't be avoided.

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.
[ Parent ]

Afghanistan 2001 vs. Serbia 1914 (2.50 / 2) (#113)
by alba on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 04:41:33 PM EST

WWI started by a terror act.

On 28 June 1914, the heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne was shot dead by Serbian assassins.

Austria-Hungary then demanded Serbia to begin a judicial inquiry against the accessories to the plot, with organs delegated by the Austro-Hungarian government participating in the investigation.

The ultimatum was rejected, Austria-Hungary declared war, trans-European alliances kicked in, and the first world war started.

The Central Powers eventually lost, and were forced to accept sole responsibility for causing the war.

Victor's justice, past, present and future.

[ Parent ]

yes, and maybe india will go to war with pakistan (none / 1) (#116)
by circletimessquare on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 04:47:14 PM EST

now

(i highly doubt it, but they almost did in 2001 when a muslim fanatic bombed indian parliament)

but one of these days a 9/11 or mumbai or bali or moscow theatre or chechnya schoolroom type event will hit the fault lines, and set off the earthquake of world war iii

our only savior is moderate muslims

if they don't get a grip, we are going to have world war iii in 10-20 years after the next big muslim fanatic attack

and that's what those lunatics WANT. they think armageddeon will come and give them heaven and doom nonmuslim fanatics to hell


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

You did not understand a single word I wrote. (none / 1) (#127)
by alba on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 05:47:24 PM EST

*sigh*

And stop that fundamentalist Armageddon bullshit.

Pakistan can't win a nuke fest against India as it is too small. And while India could technically survive a few hundred million casualties that would totally fuck up the economy. Think of the Hundred Years' War or the Thirty Years' War.

Fag vs. Fag: the India-Pakistan Phoney War



[ Parent ]
what you fail to understand (none / 1) (#135)
by circletimessquare on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 07:37:28 AM EST

is that the notion of mutually assured self-destruction only works against people who value their lives

so in the cold war, the russians and the americans wouldn't nuke each other, since they knew they would be nuked right back

now we are dealing with a ideology that embraces and favors death, that it is agateway to judgment day, in which they will be favored

if this ideology gains power in pakistan, or iran, it will not care how many nukes are pointed right back at them if they fire a nuke of their own. in fact, it is desireable to be nuked right back, because in death they will get what they desire

so, no, i'm sorry i can't stop with this "fundamentalist Armageddon bullshit" because this "fundamentalist Armageddon bullshit" is what these assholes beleive and is a salient feature of awhat a religious zealot would do with a nuke


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

There are tanks rolling down the road, coming to (2.00 / 2) (#115)
by procrasti on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 04:45:56 PM EST

crush you, and soldiers to shoot you, to make sure you are dead... and some fuckwit in the comfort of his nice little house is going to be upset that you break some shop windows in that situation? You care? Really?

You're going to throw a molitov cocktail at the fucker, AT THE VERY LEAST... windows, buildings??? If you would throw something, you are human, not some selfless being who will just stand there while tanks crush him, his friends, his family. That's a rare being that does that... the common being follows the orders and blames his boss or acts out of fear or rage or base pleasure.

So, you fight the tanks, right? You will fight with whatever you can get. Any tanks rolling into where you live... unless you grew up with those tanks... if you can't fight tanks you fight the fucks that sent the tanks... if you can't fight them, you fight the fucks that sent the fucks that sent the tanks.... If its not you, but a friend being attacked with tanks, you help him too.

Its alright if someone can surgically destroy the tank from far away, but if you plant an IED in the hope of getting the tank, that's not okay, unless if they only get the tank? If it takes out a bystander, all rules off? Does that apply to you to?

No, you are at war.

How much do guidance systems cost? What do you do without them?

Who do you target with limited resources that will make as big an impact as possible... Its just basic game theory that you fight nonassymetric war like that... its not moral, its just war.

And then the question is what is defence... because I 100% agree with your first two paragraphs... That was where we (really, even further) crossed the line, from defence to either revenge or expansion... again, there's a response to that from 'them', some part of that response must be defence of at least a perceived threat or there would be no action, but also a part that can exceed defence too... so you repeat.

And as long as we are distracted by it, the better excuse it becomes for all powerful interests to fuck us over at home.... and we pay for it, and are going to pay much more to come to our own extremists... well... we gotta give the new guy a chance first, obviously... but the last guy paid for it all in debt.

-------
if i ever see the nickname procrasti again on this site or anywhere in my life, i want it to be in an OBITUARY -- CTS
doing my best at licking arseholes - may 2015 -- mirko
-------
Winner of Kuro5hin: April 2015
[ Parent ]

Your analogy is way off (none / 1) (#121)
by Sgt York on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 05:03:13 PM EST

on a tangent now, but what the hell. I'm a citizen of a 3rd world nation and the tanks are rolling through my neighborhood. I have no way to fight them. They are coming to kill me, to subjugate me, etc. My solution? I run like a bitch. I head for the hills, family in tow.

Can't run? I fight the tanks with all I can. If I die, then so be it. It is NOT right to kill the people who I think supplied the people who put the people in power who sent the tanks. That's blind vengeance, payback. It is self destructive, worse than useless, and answering evil with evil. Besides, why in the hell would I waste time burning down a building when there are men with guns chasing me? That building was perfectly good cover!

I'm not saying I would be a saint and do exactly what I believe is right. Based on my personal track record, odds are I'd get scared, pissed off, and do something rash and stupid. Like I said, I understand the action, but I still condemn it. It's still wrong and ultimately stupid.

Also, I think you are getting off topic here. From your post, you are talking more along the lines of people fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, not things like 9/11 and Mumbai. I don't have anything to say about those fighting US soldiers in Iraq; they are fighting a war. They are targeting US troops, and sometimes they miss. It's a different situation entirely. Planting a bomb for a truck full of occupying troops is not the same thing as walking into a luxury hotel with an automatic weapon and asking for the foreigners to please step forward. One is war, the other is terrorism.

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.
[ Parent ]

Truth: I fight the tanks with all I can (1.50 / 2) (#156)
by procrasti on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 01:06:10 PM EST

Then you spend the rest of the post denying it.

Let me take a step back to make the situation clearer. What if your village was attacked by tanks... All the tanks were destroyed and soldiers killed (mostly by the way they chose to attack), but its the worst night of violence you have ever witnessed. Many of your friends and family are dead. Some arguably minor military target was attacked, but the overwhelming majority dead are civilians. You know who sent the tanks... are you happy to let it go now? You survived, you have no tanks to attack, what's the problem?

You're AT LEAST going to attack the guys who sent them, right?

BTW: Yes, I am talking about wars, revenges and violence in general, not just Mumbai... There is nothing special about Mumbai, in that its just the same scenario playing on... The only way to be proven wrong here is if India/US do NOT launch indiscriminate attacks and attempt direct apprehension / destruction of those DIRECTLY involved instead.

And yes, my one sidedness is just in contrast to the one sidedness in the article. These things must apply equally to both sides - which is my point.

-------
if i ever see the nickname procrasti again on this site or anywhere in my life, i want it to be in an OBITUARY -- CTS
doing my best at licking arseholes - may 2015 -- mirko
-------
Winner of Kuro5hin: April 2015
[ Parent ]

bias + bias (none / 1) (#157)
by Sgt York on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 01:58:31 PM EST

does not equal unbiased. OK, so we're on to a modified scenario. Maybe this explanation will help explain what you see as a contradiction in the above post.

Tanks are gone after ravaging my home, the enemy retreating, defeated. My family has been brutally murdered and my home is a ruin. Do I seek revenge? I don't know; I've never been in a situation even remotely similar. Perhaps I wouldn't, happy in our victory of repulsing the invaders. Perhaps I would, provided I wasn't stunned into some catatonic state. However, I still believe it is wrong and counterproductive to do so.

The immediate threat is gone, and the long term threat is still an unknown. Simply acting in blind rage is much more likely to make things worse than better. Even if I know who did it. I still don't know why. Are they simply evil? Were they trying to eliminate some perceived threat? Did they screw up? Was it a distraction or a political move? Were they greedy? What? Without knowing those answers, I am acting in total ignorance. The wise thing to do is gather that information, not make myself another perceived threat.

But then there's the kink in the works. Not seeking revenge is the moral thing and the smart thing, but it is not a stretch of the imagination to picture me being too angry and scared to act in a moral or intelligent way. I hope that makes sense; just because I believe it's the right thing to do doesn't mean I'll always do it. I have done, and continue to do, many things I know to be immoral and/or stupid. I admit I'm a fucked up person. I'm not happy about it or proud of it, but it's the truth and I accept it.

That was general; now I'm going to move to a specific example from the general case. The way I understand it, you say it is fine for someone to use violence in retribution for an act of violence. What about Iraq? That was the US striking out blindly at the people thought to have supplied the people who sent the people to attack the US on 9/11. Retribution, violence for violence. And that just made things a hell of a lot worse.

Oh, but the US is the powerful one, right? They don't have that right. It's been revoked because the US has power....or at least, that's the argument. I don't understand how that works, though. Suddenly, because you're the big kid, you can't strike back. You just have to stand there and take it, whatever "it" is.

I'm not arguing that the US invasion of Iraq was right; it wasn't. I am against all violent retribution.

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.
[ Parent ]

bias - bias=0, equal and opposite to the article (1.50 / 2) (#158)
by procrasti on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 03:25:18 PM EST

Of course its wrong... in the same way the article is wrong... that's what I'm trying to show... those who think the SAME logic only applies to the other side.

Also, you're difficult to argue with if you keep admitting you're not perfectly, moral and rational, please don't be so reasonable.

The equivalence is of course, if the tanks are planes, that's more or less 9/11, but you ruin my argument by saying the US responded in blind retribution, revenge and violence (my point) -- you already see your own (culture's) faults and not just 'the enemies'... You even admit the west's attack on the people who sent the people who sent the people who attacked. At least you see they are no worse than us. Even better, now you admit that, while their actions are WRONG, they are still acting out of the same human instincts the west does. This article shouldn't be addressed to just their side because you must do your part too, right?

That only leaves the argument of the morality of the difference in power. So, another analogy, say a weedy teenager who often gets pushed around by a heavyweight black belt champion, kicks the black belt in the balls when he wasn't looking, was distracted or relaxing --- no doubt the black belt is hurting, the kid was lucky...

This is enshrined in law... its not that the teenager is blameless, he just committed an assault despite their history, but unless the black belt's response is very controlled and careful, he will be committing assault with a deadly weapon (his training) or worse depending on the damage he does. The black belt has the LEGAL responsibility to show control and restraint not to go beyond simple defence (the kid is no true threat).

Its asking the weedy kid who's being pushed around all the time to accept his situation or else condemn him, while accepting or excusing the bully's actions...  When the weedy kid does land a hit, you go on asking them for peace, when its the black belt who is most likely to attack and to determine if peace is really possible or not.

-------
if i ever see the nickname procrasti again on this site or anywhere in my life, i want it to be in an OBITUARY -- CTS
doing my best at licking arseholes - may 2015 -- mirko
-------
Winner of Kuro5hin: April 2015
[ Parent ]

there is no other side (none / 1) (#160)
by circletimessquare on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 03:31:12 PM EST

  1. there is a western pov

  2. there is a muslim point of view

  3. there is a global humanistic point of view

three things you don't understand:

  1. if you attack the west, you do not actually attack what i say, since what i say does not defend or require the west, as my criticism of muslim fanatics is from a global humanistic point of view, not a western pov

  2. the muslim point of view is not represented by al qaeda or an other extremist murdering assholes. go ahead, ask any muslim

  3. the west is not at war with the muslim world. there agendas are intertwined, not adversarial. but muslim fanatics serve to inject themselves into retarded misinterpretations of reality, like yours, and start a world war. and unless they are opposed, over time, they will become successful


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
I can see how (2.75 / 4) (#163)
by Sgt York on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 04:22:38 PM EST

finding rational thought in a cts article can be disconcerting. I'll try to be a little less calm.

Actually, bias + bias = 2bias. You didn't take any bias away, you just added your own. Regardless, your bias equation operates under the assumption that there are exactly two points of view, and this is not necessarily the case.

Yes, I do see my own culture's faults. The main thing that bothered me about your OP is the air that the Muslim community is a mass of blameless victims of aggression. This is an ANCIENT feud, with valuable resources thrown in on top of it. Muslims have been doing shitty things/having shitty things done to them for centuries. Just like everybody else. I realize the air I detected is because of you trying to cancel out bias, but that's not really helping anything; it just further polarizes an already polarized issue, and I think everyone can agree that is harmful to all. My point is that both sides are acting on immoral, harmful human instincts. Neither side is good or blameless or even a victim. Both sides do horrible things to each other and then commit the true atrocity of calling it justice or the will of God. That naming is a stain on the soul of man....if you believe in that sort of thing.

I guess what I'm saying is, I see my culture's faults. Do you see the faults of the Muslim culture? Strangely enough, it's a kind of common ground.

Black belt example: The kid was NOT justified in landing that lucky hit. He should be punished for it (justice carried out by a third party, not vengeance carried out by the harmed). Furthermore, he should not be surprised when the black belt turns around and beats the shit out of him. What the hell did he expect? Sure, the bully is equally wrong for exacting his revenge, but hell, is the weedy kid really that stupid? Right or wrong, it was stupid. It only made things worse, and only a fool would not have seen it coming.

Also, you once again are throwing in a lot of bias. The evil, bully black belt pushing around the helpless little guy; not hard to guess which is which. Neither side is good. Neither side is helpless.

Oh...yeah, I almost forgot. You are a twatstain.

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.
[ Parent ]

Yes, but last sentence before example on... (none / 1) (#166)
by procrasti on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 08:04:02 PM EST

Not being a muslim, it does me little good to find faults in muslim culture, except where it blocks peaceful coexistence, and lets face it, its harder to not know their faults in this culture, but the media sensationalize the most extreme of the extreme acts of members of theirs and try to suggest most of 'them' think like that, saturating us in it whilst mostly ignoring what we do...  I am more effective in my own culture. When I talk to moderate western muslims, they say there's not much they can do about these things either... I mostly get that they hate all the bias on the television that leads to everyone being afraid of them... to think they have ANYTHING whatsoever to do with ANY of this. That they have something to answer for. They are, however, about as angry as western attacks and occupation of (some) 'muslim lands' as most westerners are about muslim fundamentalists attacking 'our lands', and in fact, hate and condemn both and see the absolute stupidity of both. Oh, and that I should read the coran and I'd know the answers.

The only problem would be if you only see the bias in what I said... If you see both, then I made my point and if so, we agree, but why are you attacking me and not the source of the original bias which I was trying to attack?

To adjust the black belt analogy, a whole dojo goes out drinking and by coincidence ends up at a bar where a k5 meetup is going on. CTS starts an argument with one of them, finally flips out and then kicks him in the nuts... lucky CTS is a bloody pulp on the floor... Probably one or more amongst us thought it'd be funny, so we're not entirely blameless, it was no doubt stupid... but those guys are looking at all of us now and don't like disrespect.

One on one, in the eyes of the law, the response from the black belt (unless restrained to defence) is worse than the initial attack, due to imbalance of power. If the black belt is restrained and holds him until the police arrive he is blameless, if he returns the compliment (which would require restraint to do no actual damage with approximately equal pain) they might go on with no police at all (both equally at fault), but any more is assault WITH A DEADLY WEAPON. A totally different league of crime.

The lie in this analogy is ignoring all the past history (and needlessly adding it earlier), but the truth in it is that there does exist a massive difference in power (and in my lifetime, imho, a significant difference in damage). Otherwise you must deny the military might of the US. The idea of a single world superpower acting as World Police should frighten people, but that's been the campaign slogan.

Finally... that requires a THIRD PARTY to resolve the conflict. What if the k5 meetup was in some remote lawless part of Mexico (for example). What happens when the dojo ARE the police? With no authority but their might and say so. There's a court, but the dojo just ignore them. The legal argument goes away and all we have left is morality... so we must judge the more powerful more harshly because their capability of damage is far greater.

If we must judge the more powerful more harshly and if we must act where we can have the most effect, we must judge ourselves (and our culture, and the most powerful in that) hardest and closest of all, because we are the more powerful and it is in this culture we have the most effect. This is true no matter how good and moral we actually are. That's the fallacy of they are worse, we are better we can do X. Even when we are the best, it keeps us the best. That means we can fight and be right when fighting IS necessary.

We are a member of the dojo so we have to be the voice of reason at that point to the other members of the dojo, we must ask ourselves and the aggrieved for peace... the k5 meetup already knows how screwed it is, this article wants them to grovel before we bash them, it asks them to do what we aren't willing to do ourselves and is even offensive to us with the parties reversed... If k5 are attacked they might find another way to screw the dojo over (deface their web pages - lol!!)... but if the dojo hardly beat CTS at all and told him to go sit in the corner and shut up or gtfo, well, we'd be buying them all beer!

When we are restrained and really working at peace, and BEING SEEN TO BE, the enemy will have no excuse and have much less recruiting power, and those that do attack (or pay, or coordinate but are directly involved) will be condemned by all - and we can go get those people... or we can leave it to the courts.

-------
if i ever see the nickname procrasti again on this site or anywhere in my life, i want it to be in an OBITUARY -- CTS
doing my best at licking arseholes - may 2015 -- mirko
-------
Winner of Kuro5hin: April 2015
[ Parent ]

SUBJECT HERE (3.00 / 2) (#173)
by Sgt York on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 10:26:52 AM EST

First, I'd like to say your whole analogy is screwed from the beginning. Any K5 meetup would have both kitten and vlad there, and no dojo would be able to stand against that.

Not being a Muslim, it does me little good to find faults in Muslim culture, except where it blocks peaceful coexistence
I don't know about that. Knowing other people's strengths and weaknesses is important. Different groups make different assumptions about the world, and knowing what those assumptions are facilitates communication. I guess that does fall under "blocking peaceful coexistence", but it also makes everything important. I know what you're talking about re: moderate Muslims. I've never met a Muslim that doesn't condemn terrorism, many at least as harshly as I do. In fact, many people I know from Muslim nations despise what their home countries have become (Iran, for the most part).
The only problem would be if you only see the bias in what I said... If you see both, then I made my point and if so, we agree, but why are you attacking me and not the source of the original bias which I was trying to attack?
Because, as a rule, I don't argue with cts. Or drywall. Unless drunk. See above paragraph re: knowing the faults of others being of aid in communication.

Also, if it looks like I'm attacking you, I apologize. That's my poor communication skills shining through. I'm thoroughly enjoying the conversation, I don't feel any animosity towards you in general or in this conversation. I think that we disagree on a few points, but on the whole we have more common ground than conflict. Hell, the only thing lacking is a few beers.

One on one, in the eyes of the law, the response from the black belt (unless restrained to defence) is worse than the initial attack, due to imbalance of power.
Just to make this clear, I couldn't care less about the eyes of the law. There are dozens, if not hundreds of laws on the books that are immoral, and many more that are simply amoral. The law can change tomorrow, but morality is a constant; it doesn't shift around. Morality and legality occasionally meet, but generally it's due to coincidence. I believe in following the law, but not in being limited to it. Even if I were a black belt, if a man walks up and attacks me, no judge will send me to prison for breaking his nose with a single punch instead of simply restraining him. But if I was a trained fighter, it would be just as simple for me to restrain the man and scare him off as it would to send him sprawling with one punch. Therefore, the punch is immoral. Violence could be avoided, so it should be.

In the barfight scenario, cts was wrong, as was the black belt. Any of us that don't go to his aid to stop the fight are guilty by omission (see evil and do nothing).

Yes, I have high standards. I don't meet them myself, and therefore can't and don't hold it against anyone else who doesn't, but I believe in aiming high.

The desire to commit violence is the evil. The evil begins with the desire to injure another, and that is the start of a corruption of man. That is why defense is a different matter; there is no desire to injure, only a desire to prevent injury.

Lastly, this is my morality, Christian morality. I don't demand or even ask that you follow it, I merely want you to understand it.

I understand your point, that with great power comes great responsibility, correct? That is true, but we cannot let the great responsibility of one party eclipse the lesser responsibility of the weaker party. It is lesser only by comparison. The responsibility is still there, it never goes away. Both can be wrong, both often are wrong.

If morality was all there was to this, though, I wouldn't be having this conversation at all. I have no right to hold another to my morals. The problem is that it's both immoral and stupid. Every response escalates the violence, increases the harm. Punch in the face, burn down a building, riot, someone gets shot, someone dies, someone blows up bus, a nightclub, an airplane, someone starts a war. What's next? What's worse than war? Want to find out? I sure as hell don't. It just gets worse and worse and worse. Morality is only the concern of those directly affected. When people do stupid things, it affects the people around them. When that stupidity feeds on and is fed by the stupidity of the people around you, it never stops growing in both scope and degree until somebody catches a clue, opens their eyes, and starts thinking their actions through.

So although I don't like the bias in the article, I agree with the point. Those within the culture need to step up and condemn these actions (as some do; they just need to be more vocal about it). I do and will continue to speak out against this violence in my own culture. I will also call upon people of other cultures to do the same.

Cooler heads must prevail, or we will find out what's worse than war. Never underestimate man's creativity in hurting other men.

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.
[ Parent ]

it just blows my mind (none / 1) (#174)
by circletimessquare on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 12:30:55 PM EST

do you see the absurdity of criticizing the west when muslim extremists do something evil?

how the FUCK does that work in your mind?

person A kicks person B

your response: "see person C over there? lets vilify him"

how the fuck does that work in your mind?

you have this whole diatribe about western actions above. ok, fine. the west doe sevil things. and? where's the connection?!

when it is an entity that hates the west that acts!

how the fuck does your mind do this absurd linkage?!

how the fuck does your mind think it is important to criticize the west, when an entity having nothing whatsoever to do with the west, and in fact is an avowed enemy of the west, that is the one doing the atrocity?

how the FUCK does that work in your head?

in my mind, it like a woman gets raped, and instead of criticizing the rapist, you lay the blame on the woman for wearing the tight skirt

that is exactly how i see you: muslim extremists murder hundreds, focusing their murder on westerners, and you criticize the westerners!

how can your mind have this insane focus?

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

The US kills as many CIVILIANS every week (1.50 / 2) (#202)
by procrasti on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 10:32:17 AM EST

Where is your fucking critism of the west?

It makes perfect sense that a western imperialist bigot would ignore and excuse that behaviour.

A true moderate humanist would have written 50 of these articles directed at the west before writing one directed at muslims.

-------
if i ever see the nickname procrasti again on this site or anywhere in my life, i want it to be in an OBITUARY -- CTS
doing my best at licking arseholes - may 2015 -- mirko
-------
Winner of Kuro5hin: April 2015
[ Parent ]

i'm not a westerner (none / 1) (#205)
by circletimessquare on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 02:12:12 PM EST

if you want to defeat my point of view, you have to actually attack me, attack humanism

you can attack the west, go ahead. here, let me help you:

fuck the usa!

fuck the usa!

fuck the usa!

whatever, it doesn't bother me, it doesn't touch me. it doesn't have anbything to do with me

you haven't even begun to touch me and my rationale and my ideology and my reasoning

when you are are ready to do so, and done with attacking the west (insofar as you think it touches anything i say, go ahead, attack the west all you want otherwise), please, get back to me


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Two more of these articles and you'll be respected (none / 1) (#162)
by icastel on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 04:10:27 PM EST

Patience, patience


-- I like my land flat --
[ Parent ]
lol. fuck you (none / 0) (#164)
by circletimessquare on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 05:41:30 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
thats what im trying to prevent (1.00 / 2) (#39)
by circletimessquare on Sat Nov 29, 2008 at 10:15:03 PM EST

only moderate muslims can stop this. otherwise, its world war iii in 10-20 years. billions dead


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
I'm sure you'll succeed. This post rocks! $ (2.00 / 2) (#161)
by icastel on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 04:09:10 PM EST




-- I like my land flat --
[ Parent ]
eat my dick (none / 1) (#165)
by circletimessquare on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 05:41:42 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
I call on all Christians to condemn the crusades! (3.00 / 7) (#33)
by Pentashagon on Sat Nov 29, 2008 at 05:16:59 PM EST

After all, if it's something retarded that a few people who identify themselves with a world religion are doing, it only makes sense for everyone else who is a member of that religion to be personally responsible for taking a vocal stand against it.

Completely as an aside, the problem is Saudi Arabia, not any of the nations the U.S. has bombed to hell.  Where do you think Hamas and Al Queda get most of their money?

Buying drugs funds terrorism?  Yeah, right.  Buying OIL funds terrorism, bitches.

absolutely true (none / 1) (#38)
by circletimessquare on Sat Nov 29, 2008 at 10:14:06 PM EST

and it is still moderates who will stop the transfer of oil welath to islamonazis

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
Well, the economy tanking may be a good thing. (none / 1) (#61)
by Pentashagon on Sun Nov 30, 2008 at 07:15:11 PM EST

With luck, demand will drop so sharply that oil will be cheaper than blood.  Then the Saudis will realize they are just sitting on a bunch of old sticky dinosaurs.  When Al Gore becomes president in 4 years, when the economy is at its lowest point, he will singlehandedly invent a clean, efficient, renewable source of energy with which he will singlehandedly rebuild the world's industries and cause the final downfall of radical religion, with help from the true peace and happiness drug he will also singlehandedly create.  I look forward to it.

[ Parent ]
if oil ceased to exist under the sands of arabia (none / 1) (#65)
by circletimessquare on Sun Nov 30, 2008 at 07:33:04 PM EST

religious bigots would still exist, and require fighting by moderate muslims for the heart of islam. yes or no?


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
Dirt poor fundamentalists are still dirt poor. (2.50 / 2) (#71)
by Pentashagon on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 01:53:25 AM EST

Even AK-47s still cost money, you know.

[ Parent ]
pakistan afforded its nukes and has no oil (3.00 / 2) (#72)
by circletimessquare on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 02:28:18 AM EST

what do we do about a nuclear armed fundamentalist theocracy in this world? ignore it? it will go away? maybe we can play hide and seek?


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
Rocks are cheap (2.50 / 2) (#90)
by Sgt York on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 10:07:47 AM EST

so are the bones of the guy you killed with the rock.

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.
[ Parent ]

No (2.50 / 2) (#89)
by Sgt York on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 10:06:38 AM EST

case in point, Africa.

oh, wait....

never mind.

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.
[ Parent ]

Assuming this is sarcasm (none / 1) (#88)
by Sgt York on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 10:04:51 AM EST

After all, if it's something retarded that a few people who identify themselves with a world religion are doing, it only makes sense for everyone else who is a member of that religion to be personally responsible for taking a vocal stand against it.
I don't know about Islam, but in Christianity it is the responsibility of other Christians to put a stop to it (see list below). Taking a public vocal stand isn't specifically commanded as the method, but as a Christian I am personally responsible for reining in Christians who act in opposition to Christian teachings. (I try, I'm just not very good at it and I can only work so fast).

And yes, the Crusades were an evil thing.

List here: This is not an exhaustive list, it's just the first stuff I came up with. Galatians 1:8-9, 1 Timothy 6:3-5, Galatians 6:1-2, Hebrews 10:24, Matthew 18:15-18, Titus 3:10, 2 John 1:9-11, Revelation 2:14-16

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.
[ Parent ]

You call on a group that does not exist. (2.85 / 7) (#35)
by sudogeek on Sat Nov 29, 2008 at 05:26:13 PM EST

You call on "moderate Muslims who believe in Humanist principles." But this statement is meaningless and defines a null set.

The definition of "Humanist principles" is the totally nebulous. I doubt that many so-called "humanists" or "secular humanists" would agree about many things. But, for example, in this tract, one of the core Humanist principles is that "human beings are not subject to God or any divine agency." No Muslim believes in that. It is absolutely contrary to the core beliefs of Islam.

To be a Muslim you need only declare the Shahada ("There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is his prophet") and profess some six basic beliefs, more or less (see below); you believe in the Shahada, angels, prophets, holy books, predestination, and a day of judgment. Then, you must live as a Muslim. Simply stated, that is determined by the Tawhid and Shari'a, but the content of these core beliefs depends on the sect of Islam to which you adhere - and there are as many of these as there are Christian churches. You have the well-known Sunni and Shia, but also the Ismailis, Sufis, Alawis, Yazidis, Zaydis, Druze, Baha'is, Kemalis, Qadainis, and others. Even within, say Sunnism, there are sects like the Wahhabis. There are innumerable imans and sayyids, each dispensing numerous fatwas, which believers are seemingly free to accept or ignore depending on the sect of the iman and whether the believer belongs to that mosque.

Years ago, Salman Rushdie called on his fellow Muslims to "take on board the secularist-humanist principles on which the modern [world]is based." The response was a fatwa issued by certain Iranian imans and a death sentence requiring Rushdie to go into hiding.

While there may be Muslims who do not believe in the jihad of Al Zwahiri and return of the caliphate, whatever that is, there are no Muslims who ascribe to Humanist principles.

You're an arrogant, condescending, ignorant dipshit. - trhurler

they exist (none / 1) (#37)
by circletimessquare on Sat Nov 29, 2008 at 10:13:16 PM EST

they just dont do shit

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
Most of these are a sub-set of Shia or Sunni (2.50 / 2) (#50)
by Wen Jian on Sun Nov 30, 2008 at 02:48:06 PM EST

Also, Bahai is not Islam. It and Babism are fairly poorly regarded in Islam, Bahai is, as far as I can tell, one of the earliest of these New Age 'unification' type religions that try to belief everything else, all at once. Don't get me wrong, they're nice guys and all, but they believe in Krishna, Buddah, and reincarnation; ergo not Muslim.

Pretty sure that most muslims consider Druze to be non-muslim, also.
It was an experiment in lulz. - Rusty
[ Parent ]

What you mean by "moderate Islam" (1.00 / 4) (#41)
by Social Democrat on Sat Nov 29, 2008 at 11:54:29 PM EST

What you mean by "moderate Islam" is Muslims is who will suck your small withered Neocon dick.  You and other Neocons like Barack Obama aren't going to find enough "moderate Muslims".  More and more Muslims every day are standing up to your Neocon imperialist war machine.

Congratulations, CTS, you Neocons have met your match in Muslims and they along with others who care about their fellow human beings such as myself will defeat you.

------
The US is fucked up, diseased, mentally unstable & psychologically unhealthy. Its food supply is tainted, polluted, & full of chemical crap. Even worse, the US is trying to ruin the rest of the world.

so that's why they attacked mumbai? (2.00 / 2) (#42)
by circletimessquare on Sun Nov 30, 2008 at 12:53:10 AM EST

hmm, i did not know india was a puppet of american neocons

thanks for clearing that up


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

oh, thanks for educating me (none / 1) (#53)
by circletimessquare on Sun Nov 30, 2008 at 03:51:37 PM EST

see i thought religious bigots killed people because they were religious bigots

but, thanks to your information, now i know that religious bigots kill and maim in india, in bali, in russia, because there are neocons in america

thanks for clearing that up man


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

do i laugh or i cry? (3.00 / 2) (#64)
by circletimessquare on Sun Nov 30, 2008 at 07:31:50 PM EST

you are either a good torll or a giant retard, i can't decide which, but let's just go with you a moment:

all the hindus leave bali (ignoring the fact they've always been there, retard)

india gives kashmir to pakistan

the usa leaves iraq and afghanistan

israel disappears

what happens to these "freedom fighters" at this point, in your mind, oh great swami?


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA (none / 1) (#70)
by circletimessquare on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 12:41:19 AM EST

you're a funny man

they have to keep the moderate muslims in line: stoning adulterers, hanging prostitutes, killing men for drinking alcohol or gorwing beards, assassinating any muslim that dare question fundamentalist platform

their goal is pantheocracy

its offensive, not defensive, fucktard

they invade nonmuslim lands, and murder innocents, because if you don't believe as they do, you are subhuman

we should all be fundamentalist muslims. the whole world over. if we are not, then we must die

get it?

man for your sake i hope i am falling for an elaborate troll


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

You don't seem to get it (none / 1) (#152)
by cdguru on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 11:38:18 PM EST

It is all Muslim land.  Spain is occupying Muslim lands today, as is Israel.  Both nations must be wiped off the map to satisfy Muslim demands.

Next, we will discover that Australia deserves to be Muslim, since neighboring Indonesia is Muslim and there are lots of Muslims living in Australia.  Another one bites the dust.

Where does it stop?  It doesn't.  It is all Muslim land decreed by the Prophet himself.

[ Parent ]

I'm pretty sure (3.00 / 2) (#176)
by sholden on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 04:49:12 PM EST

America was not occupying Iraq or Afganistan when those freedom fighters blew up the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

--
The world's dullest web page


[ Parent ]
Muslims peacfully march in Israel/Palestine. (2.50 / 4) (#44)
by Wen Jian on Sun Nov 30, 2008 at 07:49:46 AM EST

ALL THE FUCKING TIME.

The fact that you are blind to this, or blinded, is why the second Infitada began.

Israeli forces do shoot peacful protestors, just like they shoot Reuters cameramen.
It was an experiment in lulz. - Rusty

boo hoo we lost the war (1.25 / 4) (#48)
by LilDebbie on Sun Nov 30, 2008 at 02:37:10 PM EST

let's start launching iranian rockets into hebron in the hopes that will make them give us back the land we haven't had claim to in over six centuries after they kicked the shit out us when we tried to finish what hitler started.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
OH NOES SOMEONE MENTIONED HITLAR (1.66 / 3) (#49)
by Wen Jian on Sun Nov 30, 2008 at 02:42:25 PM EST

ZOMG START CRYING EVERYONE OR WHATEVER
It was an experiment in lulz. - Rusty
[ Parent ]
WAVE YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR (2.50 / 4) (#51)
by LilDebbie on Sun Nov 30, 2008 at 02:54:20 PM EST

WAVE THEM LIKE YOU JUST DON'T CARE

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
ok good (2.25 / 4) (#52)
by circletimessquare on Sun Nov 30, 2008 at 03:50:10 PM EST

now let that be the public face of islam to the west. in gandhi's time, indians seeking independence killed british. in martin luther king jr's era, african americans sought violent revolution

but these forces never prevailed in those efforts

but in the concerns of the islamic world, it is always the guy with the bomb and the gun who has the largest effort and the most support, vocal and financial

this must fade away, and a peaceful muslim must come to dominate the hoodlums, and cut off their support and rein them in

or we are all headed towards war


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

couple of things... (2.80 / 5) (#58)
by rhiannon on Sun Nov 30, 2008 at 06:10:48 PM EST

It's not like we're the crazies, the crazies are in the east, which is where most of the protests take place and are directed at, the reason the peaceful islam isn't the face of muslims everywhere is largely the result of peaceful protests and announcements not being newsworthy.

The guys with the guns and the bombs don't have very much support, vocal or financial, I don't even know where you would get that idea. Islam is the second largest religion in the world, if they were getting a proportional amount of the monies they'd be the ones using cruise missiles instead of suicide vests.

-----------------------------------------
I continued to rebuff the advances... so many advances... of so many attractive women. -MC
[ Parent ]

so all the christians or jews or hindus (1.00 / 4) (#63)
by circletimessquare on Sun Nov 30, 2008 at 07:27:21 PM EST

who aren't doing anything remotely close to what muslims are doing in the name of their religion, means exactly what?

a colossal case of denial on your part maybe?


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Hindus go around massacring people all the time (none / 1) (#76)
by Wen Jian on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 05:29:22 AM EST

And there's been more than a few instances of Jews on the rampage.

Who's suffering a massive case of denial now?
It was an experiment in lulz. - Rusty
[ Parent ]

sure, show me (1.00 / 2) (#78)
by circletimessquare on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 05:33:22 AM EST

where christians shouting "jesus saves!" or hindus shouting "i am shiva!" have gone in groups of 10-20 into the heart of saudi arabia or iran, and killed hundreds or thousands of complete innocents

and then of course a bunch of bloviating assholes on the web defending these horrific actions as inevitable, or understandable, or ignorable, because they didn't get what they want


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

I'll show you where... (1.66 / 3) (#130)
by Jizzbug on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 06:05:14 PM EST

...it's called "world history".  Read moar.

ITT ignorant Filipino compensates for his racial inferiority by picking on Muslims (little does he know Filipinos have the blood of the Moors in their veins).

PS:  Muslims are Christians, too.

I say unto you: one must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. I say unto you: you still have chaos in yourselves.
 -- Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra: A Book for All and None

[ Parent ]

Discourage (1) - Muslims are not Christians (none / 1) (#134)
by schlouse on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 12:53:12 AM EST



[ Parent ]
Muslims are indeed Christian (2.00 / 5) (#140)
by Jizzbug on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 02:40:19 PM EST

The fundamental criteria that defines a Christian is accepting Jesus as Christ, Savior, and Son of God.

Isa (Jesus in Arabic) is the Christ and the spiritual Savior, this was the primary message of Muhammad.

If you did not know this prior to now, you are an ignorant fucktwit whose brain is easily washed and controlled.  Please kill yourself (with bombs strapped to your waste, if preferred).

Muslims are also waiting for a political savior-of-sorts who will herald in the Second Coming of Isa (Jesus), this figure is the Mahdi.  Christians are awaiting a similar figure, called the Mighty and Strong One as prophesied by Isaiah; but most Christians don't read Isaiah, so they don't know about the Mighty and Strong One.

Muslims believe Isa (Jesus) lived a perfect life, that he is the greatest of the prophets, that he is the Son of God, that he is the Christ and Savior, and that he is the spirit Yahweh/Jehovah in body.

What separates Muslims from Christians is that Muslims do not believe Jesus/Yahweh is the Father (Allah or Elohim).  What separates Muslims from Jews is that Muslims do not believe Yahweh/Jehovah is the Father (Allah or Elohim) and that Jews reject Jesus as the Christ and Son of God.

So Muslims reject the Trinity as a false doctrine, and they have a clear separation between the Son of God and God the Father, but they are still Christians in that they accept Jesus as Christ!  So, as prophesied in Scripture, we live in a world where Saints are battling against Saints, seeing the evils in each other but not in themselves.

Christians killing Christians, FOR THE Ƿ!

Read moar, you pathetically uneducated retards who pretend to know so damned much about Islam.  FOX News is your daddy, and your daddy has been raping you!

lrn2removedickfromear

I say unto you: one must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. I say unto you: you still have chaos in yourselves.
 -- Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra: A Book for All and None

[ Parent ]

Wrong again (3.00 / 3) (#154)
by bgarcia on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 06:42:18 AM EST

Muslims do NOT believe that Jesus is the son of God.
"Say: "God is Unique! God, the Source [of everything]. He has not fathered anyone nor was He fathered, and there is nothing comparable to Him!" (Quran 112:1-4).
"Such was Jesus, the son of Mary; it is a statement of truth, about which they vainly dispute. It is not befitting to the majesty of God, that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, `Be' and it is" (Quran 19:34-35).
Muslims do NOT believe that Jesus was God as man.
"People of the Book (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, and attribute to God nothing except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God, and His command that He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and in His Messengers, and do not say: `God is a Trinity.' Give up this assertion; it would be better for you. God is indeed just One God. Far be it from His glory that He should have a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth. God is sufficient for a guardian" (Quran 4:171).
Muslims believe that Jesus was nothing more than a prophet. They are not Christians.

[ Parent ]
Talk to a Muslim and stop reading Wiki... (2.50 / 2) (#177)
by Jizzbug on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 06:23:07 PM EST

Go meet a Shi'ite Muslim and ask them about it.

Muslims believe we are all sons and daughters of God, and that Jesus was the greatest son of God.  If we are all Sons of God, then he is the penultimate Son of God.  No other Son of God had a miracle virgin birth and a sinless life, etc.

Yes, they believe Jesus came to bring the message of the Father, which message Muslims call: THE GOSPEL!

If you read what I wrote closely, you'll see I already said that "Muslims do NOT believe that Jesus was God as man", so thanks for making my point.

Muslims are not Trinitarian Christians, but there are plenty of other Christians that are not Trinitarian (for example, Mormons & Jehovah's Witnesses, to name only two denominations).  Trinitarianism is not the foundational belief of Christianity.  Jesus as Messiah is the foundation belief of Christianity, and this makes Muslims Christian by definition!

Don't get me wrong, Muslims are just as stupid as you and everybody else.  But my point with all this is that you and everybody else are just as stupid as the Muslims.

I say unto you: one must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. I say unto you: you still have chaos in yourselves.
 -- Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra: A Book for All and None

[ Parent ]

dude (none / 1) (#178)
by circletimessquare on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 08:16:16 PM EST

you prove you are better than the retards arguing about legalistic interpretations of fairy tales by not engaging in that retarded conversation

but seeing as you are fully engaged in the retarded discussion, you prove only to be as stupid as those you call stupid

so i say: welcome stupid, to the retardosphere, you fit right in

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

You don't even know... (2.00 / 2) (#180)
by Jizzbug on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 12:18:54 PM EST

You wouldn't know retard if it sat on your face.

There is no crime in knowing what others believe and the differences in the doctrines espoused by man.

But please, be my guest in remaining ignorant and uninformed.

Proof can only be made on the tables of logic.  So far as I can see, all tables here are full of vomit and filthiness -- and your ass appears to be shitting and pissing all over the dining room.

I say unto you: one must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. I say unto you: you still have chaos in yourselves.
 -- Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra: A Book for All and None

[ Parent ]

hypocrisy much? (none / 1) (#181)
by circletimessquare on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 12:56:52 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
as often as possible (1.50 / 2) (#201)
by Jizzbug on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 10:02:43 AM EST

While I prefer clean tables, there really is no place clean, and I didn't say I couldn't participate in the vomit.

When everybody is shitting on everything, what more is there to do than shit on their stuff even moar?

I think this video makes my point about Islam:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKKxxmfrMz8

I say unto you: one must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. I say unto you: you still have chaos in yourselves.
 -- Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra: A Book for All and None

[ Parent ]

The trifecta! (none / 1) (#184)
by bgarcia on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 06:26:18 PM EST

Talk to a Muslim and stop reading Wiki...
I go straight to the Quran to get the facts, and you're going to argue that what I've read is not representative of Muslim beliefs?
If you read what I wrote closely, you'll see I already said that "Muslims do NOT believe that Jesus was God as man"
But you also wrote:
and that he is the spirit Yahweh/Jehovah in body.
Dude, make up your mind.
...you and everybody else are just as stupid...
Great debate strategy: ignore the facts, lie about what you've said, and call your opponent stupid. Congrats, you win! Have a cookie!

[ Parent ]
Islam is many sects with many interpretations (2.50 / 2) (#185)
by Jizzbug on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 02:32:20 AM EST

But you also wrote:
and that he is the spirit Yahweh/Jehovah in body.

So long as there is no Caliphate to dictate false doctrines to all Muslims (except in the Kingdom of Morocco, theoretically), the Imams of Islam will factionalize and create many and varied interpretations.

The newest movement of thought appears to be the one you espouse, but it is also the most ignorant of historic fact and controversy. Aside from being new and stupid, it is also the view most compatible with modern non-denominational, evangelical, Trinitarian Christianity. This new view is: God == Elohim == Yahweh == Allah.

The Muslims I've met know that "Allah is not Yahweh". The Muslims I've met believe in the preexistence of spirit (and not just Sufis). In this older "legalism", as CTS would call, or interpretation, it goes like this: (God the Father == Elohim == Allah) != (Yahweh == Jesus == Messiah)

So, of course, not all Muslims believe exactly the above, but in other words, and more generally: most Jews believe Elohim is Yahweh, most Muslims believe Elohim is not Yahweh (if you read carefully again, you'll see this is what I was trying to say, read: "What separates Muslims from Jews is that...").

Also, I apologize for you having more in common with modern non-denominational, evangelical, Trinitarian Christianity than I do... I'm just stating the facts of what some people believe; you believe what you want.

I say unto you: one must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. I say unto you: you still have chaos in yourselves.
 -- Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra: A Book for All and None

[ Parent ]

yes, world history. as oppsed to the present. duh (none / 1) (#137)
by circletimessquare on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 07:39:16 AM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
That's just the point (2.00 / 2) (#77)
by Wen Jian on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 05:32:31 AM EST

The oppressors that they are protesting against will never allow that to be the face of Muslim dissent, because the dehumanising aspect of the suicide-bomber stereotype is too politically useful.

Stripped of their humanity, there is no crime in expunging them.
It was an experiment in lulz. - Rusty
[ Parent ]

dude, can you say that without the stink of (1.00 / 6) (#79)
by circletimessquare on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 05:34:51 AM EST

bullshit from your mouth overwhelming your senses even slightly?

holy creative blame game batman


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

LOL I WON (2.66 / 3) (#80)
by Wen Jian on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 07:12:50 AM EST

LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON LOL I WON
It was an experiment in lulz. - Rusty
[ Parent ]
11 (2.75 / 4) (#73)
by loteck on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 02:59:55 AM EST

11? FP? really???
--
"You're in tune to the musical sound of loteck hi-fi, the musical sound that moves right round. Keep on moving ya'll." -Mylakovich
"WHAT AN ETERNAL MOBIUS STRIP OF FELLATIATIC BANALITY THIS IS." -Harry B Otch

mossad and the illuminati helped me do it (2.00 / 4) (#74)
by circletimessquare on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 03:03:54 AM EST

we have your ip address. we'll be sending over a black car shortly


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
mad comments (none / 1) (#133)
by rhiannon on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 10:50:41 PM EST

helps

-----------------------------------------
I continued to rebuff the advances... so many advances... of so many attractive women. -MC
[ Parent ]
mad as in a lot? or mad as in (2.50 / 2) (#139)
by circletimessquare on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:11:00 AM EST

IM GOING TO FUCKING EAT YOUR LIVER YOU FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
im a gasbag. so dont listen to me, listen to them: (2.00 / 4) (#85)
by circletimessquare on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 08:38:09 AM EST

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27986778/

Throughout the Muslim world, the attacks set off soul-searching.

"I think that Muslims should raise their voice against such actions. They should forge a coalition to fight such phenomena, because it harms them and damages their image," said Ali Abdel Muhsen, 22, a Muslim engineering student in the West Bank city of Nablus.

Muslims and Arabs must confront the violence "that is taking place in our name and in the name of our (Islamic) tenets," wrote Khaled al-Jenfawi, a columnist for Kuwait's Al-Seyassah daily.

"Unfortunately, we have yet to see a distinguished popular condemnation in the traditional Arab or Muslim communities that strongly rejects what is happening in the name of Islam or Arab nationalism," wrote al-Jenfawi.

of course, now that al-jenfawi has said something critical of moslem societies and has been praised in the western press, he's probably going to get death threats

which is the whole fucking point: fundamentalist islam is destroying the muslim world. you can't think critically, or you are fair game for execution. you tow the party line, or you are assassinated

moderate muslims are going to have to raise their voices. they are already being massacred, they have nothing to lose, their enemy is already declared

and if they don't raise their voices?

the massacres continue, the polarization continues, and then a breaking point to world war iii is reached

which is exactly what these fundamentalist fuckers want, in judaism, christianity, and islam. they think armageddeon is a good thing: the prophets return, the good get heaven, the nonbelievers damned to hell. its self-fulfilling prophecy, and they are working damn hard to make it happen


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

Radicals always win out over moderates (1.00 / 2) (#94)
by Enlarged to Show Texture on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 11:19:24 AM EST

No film at any hour - witness the Jacobins in France in the late 1700s, the modern Republican party, and the Wabhabis in the modern Muslim religion...


"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." -- Isaac Asimov
[ Parent ]
not true. its like a pendulum (1.66 / 3) (#96)
by circletimessquare on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 12:32:48 PM EST

pressure mounts until radicals release pressure, then, with the populace exhausted by war/ revolution, they want to hear about nothing except moderation


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
and so where are they now? (2.75 / 4) (#106)
by localman on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 02:39:24 PM EST

Radicals don't win unless you have set goalposts.  Luckily (or not) humanity is an endless race, and any "victories" for extremists like Hitler getting power are only temporary.  Of course any victories for moderates are also temporary.

That's what we all have to face, and it's a tough one.  But basically I agree with cts's article here.  If we're going to avoid WWIII the moderate Muslims must fix their religion.

[ Parent ]

s/Muslims/Christians/ (none / 1) (#109)
by Enlarged to Show Texture on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 03:44:57 PM EST




"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." -- Isaac Asimov
[ Parent ]
Sure, all things being equal... (3.00 / 3) (#217)
by localman on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 04:57:43 PM EST

...except they're not.  Believe you me I am no cheerleader for Christianity, but the violence motivated by Christianity at the present time is less than that motivated by Islam.  Sure, historically the Christians may still have the prize for most religious killings, but right now they seem to have modernized a great deal.

The US is far too meddlesome and jingoistic, but that does not seem sourced from religion to me -- not in the way that violence in the middle east is.  The violence perpetrated by the US seems primarily motivated by money.  That's a whole other topic.

[ Parent ]

bemoaning the fall of civilization (2.50 / 2) (#119)
by totmacher on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 04:57:08 PM EST

before it even happens

don't you realize you're using the same tactics to sensationalize a point that causes all this bullshit to propagate indefinitely

omg ww3! omg ww3!

-- I'll sum it up for yo: You = Douche bag ~ Butthurtapotamus
[ Parent ]

fatalism. i feel helpless to change things (1.00 / 2) (#125)
by circletimessquare on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 05:45:14 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
I'm pretty sure I heard Michael Moore (2.66 / 3) (#98)
by sholden on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 01:01:18 PM EST

arguing this exact point.

Now, there's company worth keeping!!!
 

--
The world's dullest web page


This is polarizing rhetoric (3.00 / 2) (#111)
by levesque on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 04:35:02 PM EST

and it is drawn up in racist terms.

Escalation and extremism is counter productive, in the long term, we know this.

That said, and considering you did propose some things Muslims could fund to help reduce world tension, violence, and death; what do you propose the West, China, and the Soviets fund, other than escalation and extremism, to promote peace

hey retard (1.40 / 5) (#112)
by circletimessquare on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 04:38:33 PM EST

religious bigotry is absolutely nothing like what nation states do

not that what nation states do is excuseable, but its entirely different animal, context, etc., and is no way equivalent

really, fucktard


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Stand Up, Stand Up, Wave Your Hands (2.50 / 2) (#194)
by levesque on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 08:56:05 PM EST

I implied the effect of what they do can be the same, not what they do is the same

[ Parent ]
you implied what? (none / 1) (#196)
by circletimessquare on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 10:56:23 PM EST

from over here, all i can see is an explicit demonstration of low iq ignorance


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
Do you mean you have a low IQ (3.00 / 2) (#208)
by levesque on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 02:48:00 PM EST

Sorry, but it's hard to follow you sometimes.

To restate my original comment: What can the West, China, and Russia do to help reduce terror and death that does not produce more terror and death than terrorists do?

[ Parent ]

great demonstration of low iq (none / 1) (#209)
by circletimessquare on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 03:10:38 PM EST

to answer your question: read. the. fucking. story. headline. moron.


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
That is step two (2.00 / 2) (#219)
by levesque on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 05:03:06 PM EST

What the West, China, and Russia are doing is vastly more reprehensible than what the terrorists are doing. Just the death count, just the civilians killed, it's mind boggling, and on scale nothing seems to even approach. To attempt to justify that kind of violence as a way towards peace is a fundamentalist position of extremism.

Both sides are wrong but if you have to chose one side who is more responsible for this mess it obviously is the one who is causing the most terror and death (ie the West, China, and Russia). That is step one.

Step two. Appeal To Moderate Islam

Step three. What do the West, China, and Russia need to address other than their overt military actions?

[ Parent ]

you have some creative cause and effect there (3.00 / 2) (#222)
by circletimessquare on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 05:05:35 PM EST

true or false: if the west, china, russia never existed, fundamentalist muslims would still be murdering moderate muslims

what is at the root of the problems is the fundamentlaist muslims. nothing china, russia, or the west ever did or is doing explains or condones what fundamentlaist muslims are doing


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

My comment was not supposed to appear here (2.50 / 2) (#225)
by levesque on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 05:09:08 PM EST

It doesn't make that much sense in this thread :)

Could repost your comment at top and I will be happy reply

[ Parent ]

Interesting that gave me an idea (2.00 / 2) (#221)
by levesque on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 05:04:25 PM EST



[ Parent ]
dude how long is it (2.66 / 3) (#118)
by totmacher on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 04:50:19 PM EST

going to take you to make that movie?

I been browsing k5 for a couple of years now, signed up for an account the other month or so finally and you still haven't finished it?!

oh tl;dr, especially after you called on a mass of people to do something

-- I'll sum it up for yo: You = Douche bag ~ Butthurtapotamus

story of my life (none / 1) (#126)
by circletimessquare on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 05:46:25 PM EST

i start things and never finish them

i think its a marker for alzheimers later in life. maybe some psychiatrists can pinpoint my problem


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

you start things and never finish them... (2.50 / 2) (#129)
by Jizzbug on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 05:51:55 PM EST

...that is evidence for Asperger syndrome

I say unto you: one must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. I say unto you: you still have chaos in yourselves.
 -- Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra: A Book for All and None

[ Parent ]
i thought it was assburger syndrome (2.00 / 2) (#136)
by circletimessquare on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 07:38:45 AM EST

at least that's what they always called me in school, while they left me hanging by my underwear in the bathroom stall


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
An Appeal to Immodest Americans (2.77 / 9) (#123)
by Jizzbug on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 05:15:44 PM EST

It is not the responsibility of non-brainwashed persons to look past absurd pinheaded screed after absurd pinheaded screed and recognize that immodest Conservatism still exists.  It is the responsibility of immodest Conservatism to rein in and destroy the brainwashed emanating from your societies.  Are you too toothless or unwilling to do that?

Clean up the mess emanating from your societies, immodest Conservatives, or the rest of the world will have to do it for you. Our patience does not last forever. Who is really in charge in your intartubes? Prove it is us, and do something about your brainwashed running amok, causing much poopery and suffocation, even more than us at kuro5hin.

I say unto you: one must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. I say unto you: you still have chaos in yourselves.
 -- Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra: A Book for All and None

Paragraph Summaries (2.83 / 6) (#128)
by Jizzbug on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 05:49:44 PM EST

1) Use of terror campaigns (i.e., war) destroys moral authority.

2) Don't kill others to change world opinion, kill yourself and your community instead.

3) Call centers use terror to reduce "churn" (i.e., attrition), and the Kingdom of Morocco does not exist and the Irish are not related to its Crown Princes.

4) Israel is evil while Fundamentalist Muslims *could* be good.

5) Transhumanism will assimilate all nations and religions into the /b/ORG under Lord Xeno.

6) Moderate Muslims are subhumans that study algae growth rates (perhaps related to churn in #3).

7) Muslims kill Muslims in contravention of point #2 above.

8) Some asshole renamed Bombay to Mumbai.

9) Atheists believe in evil (and thereby Satan); but good DOES NOT exist, nor does God (contrary to what Pangloss taught).

10) (Its == It's && Muslim != West) || (Muslim == Barbar && Barbar == Visigoth && Visigoth == West), therefore: "It possesses" != "It is" && Islam == West

11) 10 * 10 = 100 dead Muslims -- all al-Qaeda's fault!

12) Cancer in my k5?  NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

13) Lord Xeno uses Muslims and Nazis to further his agenda, again: Islam == West!

14) Fortunately, we Atheists look forward to Hitler's Second Coming!

15) Zildjian cymbals attack cancer.

16) Muslims cause punctuated equilibrium of which Atheists are scared.

17) WTF?

18) FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!1!!$!!@#!*!@!ONEONEone1

I say unto you: one must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. I say unto you: you still have chaos in yourselves.
 -- Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra: A Book for All and None

forgot to mention the illuminati and mossad (none / 1) (#138)
by circletimessquare on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:08:25 AM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
JEWS DID WTC [n/t] (2.00 / 2) (#141)
by Jizzbug on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 02:41:21 PM EST



I say unto you: one must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. I say unto you: you still have chaos in yourselves.
 -- Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra: A Book for All and None

[ Parent ]
I forgot to mention... (2.80 / 5) (#142)
by Jizzbug on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 02:56:06 PM EST

...I make better horror movies than you do!

Depravity Teaser Trailer

Video related; it's me killing them bitches.

I say unto you: one must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. I say unto you: you still have chaos in yourselves.
 -- Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra: A Book for All and None

[ Parent ]

jesus fuck (2.44 / 9) (#132)
by lostincali on Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 08:42:03 PM EST

i leave for a couple of days to enjoy thanksgiving with family and you shitheads dump another CTS turd onto the front page.

"The least busy day [at McDonalds] is Monday, and then sales increase throughout the week, I guess as enthusiasm for life dwindles."

muslims (3.00 / 2) (#143)
by balsamic vinigga on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 04:30:08 PM EST

here

---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!
heh you guys are a buncha cynical bastards (none / 1) (#179)
by balsamic vinigga on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 01:09:13 AM EST

I swear the linked video had full stars until i linked to it here... and i guess you all went and rated it one star to lover the average so effectively.

---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!
[ Parent ]
as a many-year lurker and irregular commenter.... (2.66 / 6) (#144)
by nepenthes on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 06:32:33 PM EST

I'd just like to say I love this website.
An island of realness in a vast digital sea of corporate bullshit.

...

Oh, and CTS, you've got to be the most loathsome douchegobbler in the world.

"From my self-appointed position as The Guy Who Orders Huge Vaguely-Defined Groups of People Around, I, like, uhh, totally call on you to magically stop whatever bad shit that these other people are doing. Because they're totally affiliated with whatever ethnic/religious group you're a part of, and you can like, attack their, uhh, symbols and stuff?"

What a load of fucking nonsense.

If there's anything that would convince a so-called 'moderate Muslim' that all Americans ought to be murdered (not that I think there really is)... it's crap like this.

After all, it's not Moderate Muslims' responsibility to look past the rantings of one American fucktard to recognize that the vast majority of US citizens are ordinary people who DO in fact deserve to live. Right?

Idiot.

see i don't understand this point of view (1.66 / 3) (#145)
by circletimessquare on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 07:33:43 PM EST

why can't i comment on world events?

why?

why must it be assumed i am arrogant for doing that?

i can only talk about my level 7 night elf from WoW?

and furthermore, who the fuck are you?

who the fuck are you to decide whatr i can talk about or not?

isn't that an arrogance far more noxious than what you accuse me of?

so suck. my. dick.

you, you go talk about your WoW quest or your high score on grand theft auto. if i want to talk and think about worl dproblems, that's my fucking prerogative, and you are piece of shit for thinking you get to decide what i am entitled to talk and think about


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Moderate? (2.33 / 3) (#148)
by cdguru on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 11:04:56 PM EST

How long as this been going on for?  My understanding is you can go back to at least 1900 or so.  Probably longer.  Moderate Muslims?  Where have they been?  I suspect the answer is clear by now, or it should be:  THERE ARE NO MODERATE MUSLIMS.

Moderate Muslims would rail against mosques bringing in literature that, if it fell into infidel hands, would inflame all against Islam.  So what happens when such materials are found in a mosque outside Washington, DC?  They make a big show of taking it out only to bring it back the following week.  When it is no longer "news".

Moderate Muslims would clearly recognize that showing glee by dancing and having parties in celebration of the 9/11 attacks would be a bad idea.  Truely moderate Muslims wouldn't rejoice at such actions.  But reported from nearly every Muslim community across the US were such celebrations.

Moderate Muslims would be begging the UN, US or anyone else to step in and stop the killing of non-Arab people in Sudan.  Instead, every attempt to bring peace to this area is met with opposition because it is not an Arab force.

I don't think there are any moderate Muslims.  There is the "silent majority" and those that actively support actions against non-Muslims.  Period.

they exist (none / 1) (#149)
by circletimessquare on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 11:13:19 PM EST

they are just cowed in fear and powerless

but they are our last hope

these assholes will not go away, and feel rewarded and emboldened with each attack and seeing how the world reacts

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

I leave this site for a few months... (3.00 / 2) (#155)
by Psycho Dave on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 11:22:35 AM EST

...and suddenly CTS is able to push one of his screeds to the front page.

And as with most of his screeds, I tend to agree with the substance of this while still cringing at the shrill tone.

I'm sure your intention here is to inspire the moderate Muslims you describe to take action against the lunatics in their midst. I'd bet most of them are rolling their eyes. This is the equivalent of Bill O'Reilly telling black people the cure for all their problems is to quit listening to gangsta rap and use "personal responsibility".

As much as we'd love to think that we're living in some great turning point in history, the fact is all three of the Abrahamic religions have been at each others throats for almost two millenia and will still be doing it for a millenia after we're buried.

When the radical muslims finally burn themselves out, they'll just be replaced by some other nihilistic group bent on killing people at random. Maybe the Scientologists will finally say enough is enough and declare all non-thetans "fair game". At least with Islam, the stuff is apocalyptically nutty. That L.Ron Hubbard shit is just bad sci-fi.

theoretical or historical bloodshed (none / 1) (#159)
by circletimessquare on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 03:26:59 PM EST

versus present day real bloodshed

talking about the crusades means shit, its centuries ago

talking about l ron hubbard's attack forces mean nothing, its theory

muslim fanatics are hard at work trying to esatablish the caliphate, today

that matters, right now

that you can't focus on the reality of your time period is just a case of denial on your part


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Caliphate...lol. (2.50 / 2) (#167)
by Psycho Dave on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 09:35:57 PM EST

Good luck with that, radical muslims. You'll have about as much luck with that as all the radical Christians who want to bring on the end times and remember, we've got the bomb.

Someone who believes this religious shit is real is not a threat. They're fucking idiots. They can't create shit, they just blow it up.

You're falling into the trap of the right wing pundits who go nuts saying "they want to kill us! they want to eliminate our democracy and establish Islam throughout the world! We must stop them!" No, we just have to ignore them and quit doing stupid stuff like Britain where their own courts impose Sharia laws.

You're a pussy if you're scared of these people. Sure, ten of them might open fire on me in the street, but I am not gonna stay up at night worrying about it.

BTW--I think some Indian muslims read your article and were inspired to not allow the terrorists from the Mumbai Massacre to be buried in a muslim cemetery. Nice gesture, if a little bit after the fact.

[ Parent ]

christians don't have the bomb (none / 1) (#168)
by circletimessquare on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 10:10:54 PM EST

countries with lots of christians are run by secular governments

as opposed to say, iran, which is a theocracy


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Right (2.33 / 3) (#169)
by The Pope Himself on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 11:31:02 PM EST

i WHO ARE YOU TRYING TO REACH EXACTLY? MUSLIM FUNDIES ON K5? ii YOU'RE FORGETTING THAT MARTYRDOM, WITH ALL ITS BEAUTEOUS TRAPPINGS, REQUIRES BLOODSHED. ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT THEY MARTYRFY THEMSELVES BY INSTIGATING 4 ISRAEL TO KILL THEM OUTRIGHT? THEY'VE BEE NTRYING TO GET ISRAEL TO KILL THEM FOR DECADES, AND THE ISRAELIS DON'T KILL THEM CUZ THEY AREN'T THREATENING TO KILL THE ISRAELIS. WHEN THEY DEMONSTARTE PEACEFULLY THEY JUST LOOK LIKE HOMOSEXUAL PRIDE MARCHES IN LALALAND, AND ISRAEL JUST IGNORES THEM. THEY'VE TRIED TO GET ISRAEL TO KILL THEM BUT THEY DON'T UNLESS THEY TRY BLOW ISRAEL UP. IMAGINE HOW FRUSTRATING IT MUST BE TO BECOME A MARTYR WITHOUT BLOODSHED? BELIEVE ME THEY ONLY KILL AS MANY ISRAELIS AND ISRAELI COLLABORATORS AS THEY NEED TO TO GET THEMSELVES KILLED. THEY MINIMIZE BLOODSHED. iii CHANGE DOESN'T COME ABOUT ON ITS OWN. I THINK YOU'RE NOT WELL VERSED IN THE QUARAN ENOUGH TO MAKE THESE INFERENCES/

rusty? you ported comment function to sms text? (3.00 / 4) (#170)
by circletimessquare on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 11:49:07 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
hjjgf (2.00 / 2) (#172)
by The Pope Himself on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 10:03:53 AM EST

and also i hasave to ask: do you want the terroristts to make the jews and theirc ollaborators look bad?

[ Parent ]
dude (none / 1) (#175)
by circletimessquare on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 02:57:33 PM EST

what is done on 9/11 or in mumbai: whatever the cause that these suicidals fight for, is made more impossible to achieve

if the purpose of a "martyr" is to make what he wants impossible to get, then fine

because those who are victimized by "martyrs" now swear to never let them get what they want, out of simple retribution for their acts

let more muslim religious bigots bomb more nonmuslim lands. and when they announce what they want, you can be sure those places that were bombed will do their best to make sure they never get what they want


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Change will come from within Islam (3.00 / 4) (#171)
by jupiter8 on Thu Dec 04, 2008 at 03:31:01 AM EST

Jihadists are already turning against Bin Laden.  It just doesn't get a lot of coverage.

http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=575609

Communities generally don't receive criticism from outside sources very well.  If you truly want to be heard, you can always convert.

That's idiotic. Islam will die (1.50 / 2) (#187)
by tomcpp on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 08:19:44 AM EST

The only question is will it kill us before it does. It will not change. The very core of islam, it's prophet, who is more important than allah in islam, is a paedophilic massacrer.

You are asking muslims to declare he was a monster. You're asking them to declare islam a deathcult.

You're asking them to admit the truth. Not. Gonna. Happen.

[ Parent ]

An appeal to CTS. (2.25 / 4) (#189)
by TDS on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 12:45:30 PM EST

Get up off your knees, coward.

And when we die, we will die with our hands unbound. This is why we fight.
wait.... global terrorism is imaginary? (none / 1) (#190)
by circletimessquare on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 02:11:13 PM EST

seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you people?


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
Go and change your adult diaper (1.50 / 2) (#191)
by TDS on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 03:03:17 PM EST

and stock up on duct tape you fucking coward.

And when we die, we will die with our hands unbound. This is why we fight.
[ Parent ]
so global terrorism doesn't exist? (none / 1) (#192)
by circletimessquare on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 06:48:04 PM EST

let me hear it


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
lol. (2.25 / 4) (#193)
by TDS on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 07:15:27 PM EST

I think the term "franchise terrorism" is more appropriate and more accurate, either way it is not the size of threat you claim it to be.
This is not some great "end of times" stand off at the gates of Constantinople.

You are turning being scared of these people into a lifestyle choice.

Talk about doing their work for them.

And when we die, we will die with our hands unbound. This is why we fight.
[ Parent ]

there is such a thing as false alarmism (none / 1) (#195)
by circletimessquare on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 10:54:28 PM EST

and there is such a thing false complacency

one need only look at a daily litany of carbombs, suicide bombs, and other assorted madness from religious fundamentalists extremists to know which of us is which

don't worry about it dude, everything is a-ok, there are no real problems, you got it all figured out

fucking moron


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

What daily litany? (2.75 / 4) (#197)
by TDS on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 11:10:54 PM EST

Terrorism has been around for a very long time.

I appreciate you are still into your first decade of realising this sort of thing exists and doesn't just kill random foreigners on TV but really, get over it, get a fucking grip. Stop helping poor people in caves who have on the whole been fairly inept in the majority of their activities dictate how the rest of us live our lives. Stop being a coward.

This is what a woman in her 60s who had crawled out of the rubble of ruined hotel in which she'd been the main target said six hours later:

The bomb attack ... was an attempt not only to disrupt and terminate our Conference. It was an attempt to cripple Her Majesty's democratically elected Government. That is the scale of the outrage in which we have all shared. And the fact that we are gathered here now, shocked but composed and determined, is a sign not only that this attack has failed, but that all attempts to destroy democracy by terrorism will fail.

Many years later and you can't even provide a fraction of that resolve in an anonymous internet post.

This isn't a war of civilisations, this doesn't require the disapproval of millions of people who already deeply disapprove, this is the action of small group of thugs. What they are is scum, and that is that. Stop giving them far more credit than they deserve.

A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan next week Yet more Ping
[
Parent ]

silly man ;-) (none / 1) (#198)
by circletimessquare on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 11:19:53 PM EST

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

-margaret meade

one small organization precipitated world war i (the black hand, gabriel princip) by murdering the australian archduke

one small organization started the american civil war (the raid on harper's ferry, john brown)

9/11 precipitated the iraq war, the afghan war. 19 guys did 9/11

of course, they just played at the edges of a host of complicated grievances

but according to you, no one can play at these greivances, manipulate them, and precipitate the madness they want

and if anyone were to fall for these trolls, they are at fault, not the trolls

except for the small problem for you that everyone falls for it, all the time

throughout history, as you demonstrate

you lack imagination, perseverance, passion

terrorists don't

good luck to you figuring out what exactly you are dealing with here


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

You are a coward. (1.50 / 2) (#199)
by TDS on Sat Dec 06, 2008 at 11:27:04 PM EST

Furthermore, you use the death of Franz Ferdinand as an example!

Do you not understand exactly why that is a warning from history to people who hold the sort of views you do?


A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan next week Yet more Ping
[
Parent ]

so let me get this straight (none / 1) (#200)
by circletimessquare on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 12:47:39 AM EST

because i understand what franz teaches us about human nature, i'm to blame for human nature

ever hear of shooting the messenger asswipe?

what i'm telling you, bitch, is something about human nature. i am not part of that nature, i am not making that nature. but i UNDERSTAND that nature

you know, learning from history?

i'm not a coward, i'm just fucking smarter than you about what we are really talking about here

you're quite the fucking ignorant loud moron, aren't you?


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Those who don't learn from history (2.33 / 3) (#204)
by alba on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 10:54:41 AM EST

are doomed to repeat it.

Those who don't learn are just doomed.

So here is your lesson, oh great leader of humanism:

The assassination of Franz Ferdinand of Austria did not end the monarchy or the Austrian Empire.

When Franz Joseph died in 1916 he was succeeded by Karl who ruled a further two years until WWI was lost.

So actually it was the insane political reaction to a simple crime that ended the monarchy and the Austrian Empire.



[ Parent ]
absolutely correct (none / 1) (#207)
by circletimessquare on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 02:16:15 PM EST

franz ferdinand's action isn't a single man who started a world war, but his action precpitated that war. just like the assholes who bombed indian parliament in 2001 almost precipitated war between india and pakistan, but luckily didn't (but are still trying hard to get us there)

so have you learned from history yet? that a handful of assholes can precipitate massive wars form the political situations they live in?

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

You are supreme commander of global humanism (2.66 / 3) (#203)
by alba on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 10:40:37 AM EST

Yet you don't know the difference between Austria and Australia.

*sigh*

[ Parent ]

its not my fault theres so many kangaroos in graz (2.50 / 2) (#206)
by circletimessquare on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 02:13:36 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
That is step two (2.00 / 3) (#218)
by levesque on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 05:00:10 PM EST

What the West, China, and Russia are doing is vastly more reprehensible than what the terrorists are doing. Just the death count, just the civilians killed, it's mind boggling, and on scale nothing seems to even approach. To attempt to justify that kind of violence as a way towards peace is a fundamentalist position of extremism.

Both sides are wrong but if you have to chose one side who is more responsible for this mess it obviously is the one who is causing the most terror and death (ie the West, China, and Russia). That is step one.

Step two. Appeal To Moderate Islam.

Step three. What do the West, China, and Russia need to address other than their overt military actions?

your cause and effect is wrong (none / 1) (#223)
by circletimessquare on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 05:06:58 PM EST

true or false: if the west, china, russia never existed, fundamentalist muslims would still be murdering moderate muslims

what is at the root of the problems is the fundamentalist muslims. nothing china, russia, or the west ever did or is doing explains or condones what fundamentlaist muslims are doing

fundamentalist muslims are the root of the problem

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Trees have roots, humans have affect (none / 1) (#276)
by levesque on Fri Dec 12, 2008 at 12:15:49 PM EST

your cause and effect is wrong

I don't claim the West, China, and Russia (WCR) are the cause, I believe they are a cause, as I believe Muslims are too.

true or false: if the west, china, russia never existed, fundamentalist muslims would still be murdering moderate muslims

Logic? The answer is undetermined.

nothing china, russia, or the west ever did or is doing explains or condones what fundamentlaist muslims are doing

Agreed. No ingredient in the soup condones or explains the taste of the soup.

fundamentalist muslims are the root of the problem

Again, keeping in mind classical reductionism is mythological, neither the WCR nor the Fundamentalist Muslims are solely responsible.

In a pot of hot water the root cause of the temperature of the water is not the temperature of a particular molecule, or group of molecules. Similarly to state that the highest waves on the sea, or any category of waves, are the root cause of the seas agitation is misleading and inaccurate.

(N.B. I think the West has a particular tendency towards a restricted or biased view of responsibility)

[ Parent ]

fucktard (none / 0) (#279)
by circletimessquare on Sat Dec 13, 2008 at 06:39:33 AM EST

by your thinking, nazi germany is just one glorious ingredient in a soup that leads to it bearing no responsibility for what nazi germany did

no: howabout fundamentalist religious bigotry be blamed for what it actually fucking does, and claims to do

i know, i'm really reaching aren't i

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Humm (none / 0) (#280)
by levesque on Tue Dec 16, 2008 at 08:27:28 PM EST

by your thinking, nazi germany is just one glorious ingredient in a soup that leads to it bearing no responsibility for what nazi germany did

In my previous comment I implied all individuals and groups are responsible for the state of the soup at any particular moment. So a particular German or group of Germans are responsible, and so is everyone else. In this context the term responsible is not a particular causal sign, rather responsible is an inherent state of the individual within the context of social dynamics. (Issues pertaining to relative responsibility, e.g. fields or levels of responsibility, are avoided at this time)

So, to get back on topic, an effective approach to violence reduction is not directly clarified by reciprocal responsibility (re-sponsibility) unless we look towards the complex series of precedents that lead up to the particular state under analysis (Nazi Germany) --as it was possible to predict the direction the world was heading before the rise of Nazi Germany, today it is possible to predict, modify, and avoid unproductive future world states. An honest and transparent analysis of precedence, of reciprocal responsibility, outside the context of momentary and weighted causal responsibility, is the path towards effective change.

no: howabout fundamentalist religious bigotry be blamed for what it actually fucking does, and claims to do

Yes, what their plan actually results in! And the WCR's does too!

i know, i'm really reaching aren't i

Well yes, but it is on topic. I'm only saddened I don't have more time to reply.

[ Parent ]

how about this (none / 0) (#281)
by circletimessquare on Tue Dec 16, 2008 at 09:03:34 PM EST

your entire thought process leads to nothing more than the deconstruction, and therefore dissolution, of the very concept of responsibility itself

not out of any greater morality or greater historical or intellectual grasp on your part

but simply because you are afraid to say hard things. you lack a set of balls

when something bad happens, there are many orthogonal events that help the bad thing happen. for example, a wife beater would not have beaten his wife if she didn't wear a sexy dress outside the previous day. he might not have beat her if that other man hadn't smiled and winked at her. does the wife bear responsiblity? does the winker?

in your twisted retarded way of thinking, yes, they do

in my thinking, the wife beater bears 100% repsonsibility for being a fucking wife beater. what the othe rpeople did certainly contributed to the wife beater choosing to beat his wife, but the wife beater CHOSE to beat his wife as aresponse to the events in front of him

in the real world, dim wit, 100% responsibility goes to the party that does the worst thing in a situation. if i punch you, and you walk away, i'm a fucking asshole. if i punch you, and so you stab me, YOU are the fucking asshole. see how that works?

all of the contingencies that led up to that event are interesting, fascinating, but do not mitigate any responsibility whatsoever, crocodile tears notwithstanding

capisce moron?


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

re+sponse = back+to pledge (none / 1) (#283)
by levesque on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 08:01:19 PM EST

your entire thought process leads to nothing more than the deconstruction, and therefore dissolution, of the very concept of responsibility itself

No, it does not. Distributed causality and mitigating factors hold weight, eg in our legal system, because it makes sense to do so. Responsibility is complex.

in my thinking, the wife beater bears 100% repsonsibility for being a fucking wife beater. what the othe rpeople did certainly contributed to the wife beater choosing to beat his wife, but the wife beater CHOSE to beat his wife as a response to the events in front of him

Looking at responsibility as distributed does not in anyway support criminal behavior, exonerate it, or prevent its restraint by whatever means necessary.

Why would it be otherwise.

[ Parent ]

man beats wife (none / 0) (#284)
by circletimessquare on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 09:18:32 PM EST

he says he did it because his wife wore a sexy dress

fucking airheads like you sit there and have "deep thoughts" and believe those crocodile tears and agree the wife deserves some of the responsibility for her beating

no, asshole, the wife beater is solely 100% responsible for being a wife beating piece of shit

really, you piece of shit

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Sometimes (none / 0) (#285)
by levesque on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 07:47:57 PM EST

you can say about some situations that someone is responsible and someone is not.

In many other situations it makes no sense to round responsibility to 0% or 100%, and sometimes it doesn't even make sense to speak about responsibility in those terms.

[ Parent ]

very true (none / 1) (#286)
by circletimessquare on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 10:50:40 PM EST

and sometimes, you can talk about people who aren't very good at ascertaining responsibility at all

for whatever ulterior motive, for whatever the motivation

but they certainly don't help, as much as they think they are helping

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

'uhn (none / 0) (#287)
by levesque on Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 04:05:33 PM EST

Maybe not as much

[ Parent ]
The moment I read the title in the K5 Slashbox... (3.00 / 4) (#227)
by LodeRunner on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 09:25:01 PM EST

...I knew it would be a circletimessquare story.

---
"dude, you can't even spell your own name" -- Lode Runner

so as a final analysis (3.00 / 2) (#252)
by totmacher on Wed Dec 10, 2008 at 05:46:09 PM EST

did this provoke what you wanted CTS?

did this get people passionate about fighting for what you believe is right? or did it alienate?


-- I'll sum it up for yo: You = Douche bag ~ Butthurtapotamus

huh? (none / 0) (#275)
by circletimessquare on Fri Dec 12, 2008 at 06:42:47 AM EST

i just say what i believe. i'm suppose to be responsible for how people react to me? i thought that was their responsibility

so if a guy beats his wife, all the while saying "when you wore that dress, you knew this was coming right? do like what you are getting? why do you make me do this to you?" who is responsible for the wife being beaten, the wife or the husband?


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

no, I'm not talking about responsibility (none / 1) (#277)
by totmacher on Fri Dec 12, 2008 at 02:37:48 PM EST

i'm talking about engineering the sort of change you want

here I'll put it into a format you like. setting up two opinions and then force-asking someone to choose one. what I'm asking is what you want more:

to go off on random people on the internet
or
to make what you want happen, HAPPEN

if it's the former, you're doing great. if it's the latter, you're failing horribly

-- I'll sum it up for yo: You = Douche bag ~ Butthurtapotamus
[ Parent ]

oh i see (none / 0) (#278)
by circletimessquare on Sat Dec 13, 2008 at 06:36:06 AM EST

just forget people have free will

they'll love you for it


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

WHY THE FFFUUUUUUU!!!@1#!!!EXCLAMATIONEXCLAMATORY1 (none / 0) (#273)
by Jizzbug on Fri Dec 12, 2008 at 12:30:23 AM EST

Why the fuck have my comments explaining certain Muslim beliefs been deleted?

Stupid fuckin' k5 lamers.  The comments aren't even hidden.  I leave for 3 years and k5 turns into this?!  GTFO my k5.

I say unto you: one must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. I say unto you: you still have chaos in yourselves.
 -- Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra: A Book for All and None

My social security number is 323-80-9292. [n/t] (none / 0) (#274)
by Jizzbug on Fri Dec 12, 2008 at 12:35:42 AM EST



I say unto you: one must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. I say unto you: you still have chaos in yourselves.
 -- Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra: A Book for All and None

[ Parent ]
Ignorant, bigoted, irrational article. (3.00 / 3) (#282)
by seanhbanks on Wed Dec 17, 2008 at 06:19:17 AM EST

`Islamic Terrorism' is not about militant Islam, it is actually nothing but asymetric warfare waged victims of Western Imperialism against the latter's overwhelming military machine.

Also, the aim of terrorism is not to terrorise civilians, it is to provoke precisely the idiotic overreactions we are witnessing, i.e. the hypocritical snuffing out of civil liberties in alleged liberal democracies, and a military overspend and overstretch that will ultimately lead to the US' and allies' inability to interfere in other countries.

The only way to combat terrorism is to do absolutely nothing.

"victims of Western Imperialism" (none / 0) (#294)
by circletimessquare on Wed Jan 07, 2009 at 01:58:57 AM EST

the rubrick under which every ill in the world is blamed for, via various creative reasoning

you know, colonialism ended awhile ago. you need to update your understanding of the world past 1938. when something goes wrong in java, or bengal, or amazonia, or manchuria today, you have to be living some sort fo escapist fantasy to explain how that's the fault of washington dc


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

wrong again (none / 1) (#301)
by seanhbanks on Tue Jan 20, 2009 at 07:31:03 AM EST

In case you haven't noticed, the US actively seeks to rule the world, and has been doing so for at least sixty years. Starts and prolongs wars, undermines democratic movements, supports dictatorships, finances fascist resistance groups, destroys local economies through `food aid', media manipulation, the list goes on and on. The US apparently wants a unipolar world, them and their obedient slaves versus everyone else. If that isn't imperialism, what is?

[ Parent ]
retarded (none / 0) (#302)
by circletimessquare on Tue Jan 20, 2009 at 02:08:50 PM EST

the crimes you list happened during the cold war, when the ussr was trying to influence the entire world as much as the usa, for the same reasons, using the same methods

so where's your prosecution of russia?

insofar as the usa did horrible things in the fight against communism, it came back to bite them in the ass, like the virulently anti-american regime in tehran. so its all fair turn around anyways. where the usa abandoned its principles, it reaped just deserts. in other words, the world doesn't need you to prosecutre the usa, the prosecution of the usa for its crimes is already playing out

but, speaking of tehran, or moscow, or beijing, or caracas: all countries seek to influence and control as much as they can. in other words, i am not absolving the usa of any of the crimes you are pointing out. i am simply saying: why are you prosecuting the usa for crimes everyone does? where is your prosecution of china? where is your prosecution of russia?

when i see your words aligned against those countries as well, then i will listen to you. but right now, i only see imbalance in your words, and therefore uselessness and stupidity

i am not asking you to love the usa. i am asking you to hate all nations as much as you hate the usa. the usa is uniquely deserving of the hate you heap on it

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Too late. (none / 1) (#288)
by For Whom The Bells Troll on Mon Dec 22, 2008 at 01:04:24 AM EST

I'm from the region; my hometown is one of the largest urban centers for Muslims in India, close to half the town is Muslim. I don't think there's a distinction between 'moderates' and 'orthodox' Muslims anymore; it's more of a difference between 'regular folk' and the 'radicalized'. Islamic thought in India is firmly against terrorism; there was a unanimous fatwa against terrorism by a major conference of Islamic scholars a few months back. Not much help that did, did it, even for Indian Muslims; an estimated 10-15% of victims in Mumbai were Muslim.

I'm very very cynical about it all; like global warming and the financial meltdown, I believe we're past a certain tipping point now. Radical (as opposed to orthodox) Islam is on a firm path of destruction; Afghanistan and Pakistan are already lost, Maldives and Bangladesh are next. The sheer reality is that no government in any part of the world knows how to deal with it anymore; we'll continue to "lose" until "they" (ie, Radical Islamicists, not Muslims in general) kill more than "we" do, at which point, support for "them" will turn towards us in Main Street, Dar-ul-Islam. Don't hold your breath though; all struggle may be local, but all news is most resolutely global. Like scared, gun-toting Americans in Buttfuck, MO, most folk have a persecution-complex that's a complex mix of real and imagined grievances, a toxic set that's hard to resolve even for regular folk with two lobes, let alone MP5-carrying douchebags with half a lobe.

I apologize to any Muslim who might feel offended by this rant; that is not my intent. Like I said, I grew up in a Muslim-town, most of my mohalla is Muslim, I have the greatest respect possible for Islamic thought and architecture (love them domes and arches). Like Obama, I happen to think the morning azaan is one of the most beautiful tunes to wake up to in any part of the world. All I'm saying is this: like the rest of the world, there's absolutely nothing that "moderate" Muslims can do anymore; no amount of protests will change anything anywhere.



---
The Big F Word.
maldives? too small, who cares. bangladesh? (none / 0) (#296)
by circletimessquare on Wed Jan 07, 2009 at 02:15:00 AM EST

the islamists were just trounced in elections there

yeah, malaysia is trending more conservative, true. but bangladesh, indonesia, malaysia: the cultures there are not beholden to the radical bumfucks. real militant islam is a pakistani/ iranian/ middle eastern thing. go east of libya, and your free of the militant bumfucks too (well, algeria is scary though)


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

OH HAI (none / 0) (#289)
by The Emperor Has No Clothes on Sat Dec 27, 2008 at 05:49:20 PM EST

I got back from the Gulf just in time to completely obliterate your little rant here.

You know what's on TV there during commercial breaks?
OH WAI IT IS THIS.

Maybe you should get out more you ignorant little shitstain.

the islamofascists were inspired by tamil tigers (none / 0) (#295)
by circletimessquare on Wed Jan 07, 2009 at 02:07:39 AM EST

fighting in sri lanka, who pretty much pioneered the whole suicide bomber thing. tamils are not muslims

northern ireland was a hotbead of terrorism. so is the eta in spain. and who can forget the libertarian hero timothy mcveigh in the usa? the aum shinrikyo did a bang up job gassing the tokyo subway system with sarin nerve gas. etc., etc.

pick a part of the world, you can find terrorists murdering innocents, of every religion, of every nationality and race and cause

but if you measure the amount of dead in the past 30 years globally due to all terrorist causes, you're piechart of terrorism due to movements who appeal to fundamentalist islam takes the pac man part of the pie chart

why do you deny that obvious truth?


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

You fail at reading comprehension (none / 0) (#297)
by The Emperor Has No Clothes on Thu Jan 15, 2009 at 12:24:59 PM EST

Your little rant has nothing to do with what I posted.

What truth am I denying?

Why do you deny the obvious truth that moderate muslims speak out against terrorism, on international arabic TV, prime time, every single commercial break?

[ Parent ]

let's go with you for a moment (none / 0) (#298)
by circletimessquare on Thu Jan 15, 2009 at 08:53:08 PM EST

lets adhere strictly to your depiction of reality

results?

let's forget utterly for a moment about muslim terorrism in nonmuslim lands, and just focus on muslim terrorism in muslim lands, which severs all the bullshit about international conflicts and extraneous red herrings, and gets us to the nugget of the truth:

muslim terrorism is a huge ordeal, for muslims, and moderate muslims don't seem able have a handle on reigning these assholes in which is obviously in everyone's interest, and, according to you, majority opinion

and i agree with you, it IS majority opinion

but the majority moderate is cowed and terrified

if racist assholes were running around killing black people left and right in the usa, society and government woudl realize the peril, and shut the assholes down

what if they were never shut down?

and maybe now you know what is going on in the muslim world

words: great

actions?

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Yawn (none / 0) (#299)
by The Emperor Has No Clothes on Fri Jan 16, 2009 at 06:27:28 PM EST

The old 'but, but are we doing enough?' argument.

Sure, we're doing something against aids, but are we doing enough?

Sure, we're doing something against poverty, but are we doing enough?

Sure, we're doing something against crime, but are we doing enough?

Sure, we're doing something against global warming, but are we doing enough?

Sure, we're doing something against drunk drivers, but are we doing enough?

JUST THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

[ Parent ]

nice subject change (none / 0) (#300)
by circletimessquare on Sat Jan 17, 2009 at 12:21:12 AM EST

i'll take your subject change to indicate you've completely conceded to my point

thank you for being man enough to admit when you are wrong


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

useless (none / 0) (#292)
by bob6 on Sun Jan 04, 2009 at 07:44:40 AM EST

moderate muslims are okay islam fundamentalists who only target the christians, the jews and the godless.

Cheers.
who kills the most muslims in the world? (none / 0) (#293)
by circletimessquare on Wed Jan 07, 2009 at 01:49:43 AM EST

muslim fundamentalists

suicide bombers, shiite versus sunni bigots, insane sharia legal rulings, etc.


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

An Appeal To Moderate Islam | 302 comments (283 topical, 19 editorial, 2 hidden)
Display: Sort:

kuro5hin.org

[XML]
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. The Rest 2000 - Present Kuro5hin.org Inc.
See our legalese page for copyright policies. Please also read our Privacy Policy.
Kuro5hin.org is powered by Free Software, including Apache, Perl, and Linux, The Scoop Engine that runs this site is freely available, under the terms of the GPL.
Need some help? Email help@kuro5hin.org.
My heart's the long stairs.

Powered by Scoop create account | help/FAQ | mission | links | search | IRC | YOU choose the stories!