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"Does 'Sleep Gas' exist?" or "Ethnic Cleansing in the US"

By tilly in Politics
Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 08:21:04 AM EST
Tags: (all tags)

This article describes harassment and barrage of assaults I have been experiencing on my body during the past five months.  

I am an American citizen, an immigrant of Middle Eastern origin.  I have been living in the US for 35 years; I am non-religious; my politics tend in general towards left-of-center.  Around the beginning of the Iraq war, years 2003 and 2004,  I expressed on Internet forums - mostly on this site - my opposition to the Iraq war in strong language and talked about George W. Bush in unflattering terms which are commonly heard now but were not so commonly heard then.

The precise beginning date of the series of events I will talk about is uncertain because only towards the end of November 2007, I realized that I was being drugged and walked backwards in my mind and traced the start of this approximately to the beginning of that month ...

To explain:  During a normal night of sleep, one goes thru a process.  The precise instant one falls asleep is not clearly marked to one's own consciousness but one is aware of the different stages of sleep one goes thru during the nite.  There are periods of deep sleep and no apparent consciousness, and periods of dreaming and times of semi-awaking and becoming aware of such things as the bed and sounds coming from outside etc and then falling asleep again and going thru these stages possibly several times.  And in the morning, because of the awareness of having gone thru these stages, we are aware of time having passed thru the nite.

By contrast: I have been operated on under general anesthesia two times.  The experience of general anesthesia is not like sleeping at all; it is total absence of awareness; one might describe it as destruction of time; it is as if one did not exist during the time while one was under.

Somewhere towards the end of November, I said to myself, I am not going to sleep; I am being knocked out.  This had been going on for several weeks but it did not hit my consciousness because the possibility of such a fantastic thing as noxious gases being injected into my living space was so totally outside the horizon of my expectations.

Because, if somebody had talked to me a year ago in the way I am writing now, I would have said this guy sounds like a paranoid nutcase.

Going back to the past four months, unfortunately, I have not kept a diary and can only give an account of events in inexact time specs.

I believe the assault on my body started with a test on me as a guinea pig of a "sleep gas".  This is only one of the things I have been subjected to in the past 4 months.  Let me list them:

1)  First, more details on the "sleep gas":  Once I became aware of it, I paid attention to how it worked.  A typical situation:  I am walking around totally awake and not tired, then I sit down to watch TV for a bit in my usual spot on the couch.  I may or may not feel a faint draft of air on my face; then, quite suddenly, I feel tired and sleepy.  Then, the effect depends on how I respond to this.  If I take this as a signal that it is time to go to sleep, I actually do go to sleep and this is what I had been doing the earlier weeks of November.  (Parenthetically, throughout most of my adult life, I suffered from insomnia and going to sleep had been a big struggle for me, that is, until November 2007!)  
   If, on the other hand, I quickly get up and move away from the spot on the couch, the effect dissipates; I am back to being awake and untired again!  Now, in my experience, this is a neat trick.  One might shake oneself out of sleepiness with coffee and cold fresh air etc but tiredness does not go away so easily.

2)  Now the waking part:  I seem to breathe cold air, or more precisely, I experience what feels like a splash of cold air on my face and this is followed by palpitations in the chest.  This is how I was woken up.  Also, this is how I was prevented from resting.  Another typical situation:  I come from work eager to read a magazine.  I set up my pillows on the bed to rest against.  Then, the light blinks, I feel the cold air against my face followed by the palpitation in the chest.  I get up and leave the bedroom.

3)  When I was still using my bedroom, I remember waking gasping for air and running to the window and being able to breathe only with my face out the window.  It was as if something other than air had been filling my lungs.  This happened only for one or two times after which I stopped using my bedroom.  For the past 2-3 months, I sleep in the living room on my desk; this puts my head on a level against the open window and I use a fan to drive in fresh air from the outside against my face.

4)  "Dirty air":  Not that I can see the dust or anything but I feel an accumulation of gunk in the back of my throat and on my tongue.  During the times I was subjected to this particular torture, the furs on my cats were covered with a shiny gunk and they kept licking their tongues.

5)  A particularly severe attack:  I believe it is administered via an injected gas; it may start with something like the bursting of a bubble on my temple.  Followed by a sickness lasting from a few hours to a day.  Symptoms:  finding myself forced to breathe fast, numbness on the extremities, for long periods afterwards, feeling my lungs constantly with discomfort on each breath and chest pain that sometimes take over entire one half of my chest.

6)  Equally severe, administered via my car (not in my townhouse).  Burning in the lungs, pain with breathing, feeling as if I am about to faint.  This also lasts several hours.  And I actually have a sample of the substance that caused this.  I found an object that looked like a piece of sponge in front of my garage.  I picked it up; it was covered with a soot-like powder.  I brought it near my nose to see if it had a scent.  Subsequently, for several hours, I experienced the above symptoms with one additional symptom:  the skin on my finger turned white in an area the size of a dime where I had touched the stuff.  This was not a case of the skin being covered with dirt or powder; the skin itself turned white and remained so even after washing for several hours.  I imagine, about half a dozen times, such a piece of sponge was placed on my engine allowing the piece to burn with the heat of the engine with the vapors wafting into the passenger compartment.  In one of these occasions I had a movie theater staff call the medics and they found nothing except that my pulse rate was and stayed at a high level.  This was attributed to my being excited even though I was not so.

7)  Tinnitus:  Ringing in the ears.  Now, this is not internally generated.  I believe this is achieved by some sort of electomagnetic wave or near-inaudible sound wave.  The reason:  the effect is localized to specific spots I tend to occupy in my home, for example, sitting in front of the computer.  If I move away quickly when the ringing starts, it subsides over half a minute to a minute of time.  

The general strategy seems to be not to throw all of these at me at the same time but to sort of alternate between different types of torment.

I never thought I was that important but somebody seems to have seen it fit to spend an awful lot of concentrated effort and money to displace me.  All these occurrences are not the work of an ordinary person and the team that is harassing me has access to locksmith expertise, veterinary expertise, electricians' expertise and and air-conditioning expertise.  I will spare the reader details on all of these areas for now.  

The overall goal seems to be to drive me away and, if that fails, to drive me crazy, and if that fails, to make others think me crazy if I start to talk about this admittedly fantastic stuff that is happening to me.

There are other effects that are difficult to distinctly describe.  There is a lot here that I have not written about.  This has been my life in the past four months.  There are days when it feels like I am walking around feeling drugged and wearing a helmet of a headache.  It may just be a general unwellness resulting from living under torture.  


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"Does 'Sleep Gas' exist?" or "Ethnic Cleansing in the US" | 178 comments (162 topical, 16 editorial, 1 hidden)
Same thing happens to me too (2.87 / 8) (#1)
by yellow shark on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:34:18 PM EST

except I get transported to a sorority house at some Big Ten university and get probed by hot chicks.

I wake up (but I wasn't really asleep) and all my private parts are sore.

LOL, does your bliss last 4-5 months? - nt (none / 1) (#4)
by tilly on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:02:01 PM EST

[ Parent ]
is this a joke (2.80 / 5) (#2)
by Linux or FreeBSD on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:36:50 PM EST

No it is not - nt (3.00 / 2) (#3)
by tilly on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 07:56:36 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Hah (2.75 / 4) (#5)
by LittleZephyr on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 08:30:20 PM EST

I would normally recommend you to see a psychiatrist because you are a paranoid freak, but it would be interesting to see if you can come up with proof. Post pictures of that black spongey substance you found. Your townhouse might have a toxic mold infestation or or some form of sick building or legionnaires disease.
(\♥/) What if instead of posting that comment,
(0.-) you had actually taken a knife and stabbed
("_") me in the eye? You murderer. ~ Rusty

symptoms of the gas much like reading this story (2.75 / 4) (#6)
by lostincali on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 09:18:41 PM EST

"The least busy day [at McDonalds] is Monday, and then sales increase throughout the week, I guess as enthusiasm for life dwindles."

This story niiice (1.50 / 2) (#7)
by Hiphopopotamus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 09:19:57 PM EST


I'm In LOVE!

Paranoid but with a grievance (2.66 / 6) (#8)
by jimrandomh on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 09:52:02 PM EST

Yes, you are paranoid. But you've also hinted at some real issues in your environment, which you can track down and fix. Finding the real cause of your discomfort would set your mind at ease. Also, you should strongly consider therapy.
  1) It's hard to fall asleep if you're nervous, and if the reason you're tired is because you've been sitting still for awhile then getting up and walking around will wake you up. You mentioned a history of insomnia, which means you're probably sleep deprived, which means that suddenly feeling tired, especially on the couch, is completely normal.
  6) Sounds like mold. And if there's a piece of it in your garage, it could be growing in your walls. That would explain 3, 4, and 5 as well. You should have your house checked for mold; it'll cost a few bucks, but inspectors do that sort of thing all the time.
  7) Cheap electronics sometimes make a high-pitched sound, right at the limit of human hearing. It's localized to the spot near the device that's making the noise, and turning it off will make it go away. Try turning off your TV, computer monitor, computer, and whatever other electronics you have around until you figure out where it's coming from.

CalcRogue: TI-89, 92+, PalmOS, Windows and Linux.
LOL, you remind me of Bill Frist ... (none / 1) (#9)
by tilly on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 10:16:29 PM EST

... the former Senate majority leader. Fast and easy with long-distance diagnoses ... (At least he was a doctor.)

[ Parent ]
no you're right (2.00 / 2) (#41)
by rhiannon on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 06:06:57 PM EST

the government really is poisoning you because you don't like G W Bush or the war in iraq.

I continued to rebuff the advances... so many advances... of so many attractive women. -MC
[ Parent ]
You see I never said that ... (2.50 / 2) (#54)
by tilly on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 11:59:05 PM EST

because I am not certain of that connection.

But, yes, that MAY be a part of it. How do people get on the no-fly list? One way is to participate in anti-war demonstrations.

I have been told that it is a case of accumulation of red flags: Being a man of Middle Eastern origin is one big red flag to begin with. Then, having and freely expressing anti-government, anti-war views is clearly another.

Or it may be a case of a non-government, vigilante group operating in the knowledge that crimes against a person of a certain type will not be vigorously investigated.

Actually, the mechanics of who-and-how is secondary when the poison is in the environment itself.

[ Parent ]

by circletimessquare on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 10:54:13 PM EST

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

Hi, CTS! It's been a long time ... (none / 0) (#11)
by tilly on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:05:56 PM EST

You make me feel right back at home!

[ Parent ]
who the hell are you? (2.00 / 2) (#12)
by circletimessquare on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:32:22 PM EST

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
Oh, never mind ... - nt (2.00 / 3) (#13)
by tilly on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:36:25 PM EST

[ Parent ]
your memory was wiped (none / 1) (#128)
by waxmop on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:10:37 PM EST

Somebody else fill in the details.
there are few things more badass than a lost cause. nailgun
[ Parent ]
not funny. (none / 0) (#14)
by chlorus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:39:36 PM EST

Peahippo: Coked-up internet tough guy or creepy

No, not funny ... (2.50 / 2) (#15)
by tilly on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:49:48 PM EST

unless you enjoy the darkest of ironies.

[ Parent ]
faking schizophrenia is pretty low. (2.33 / 3) (#16)
by chlorus on Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 11:53:42 PM EST

Peahippo: Coked-up internet tough guy or creepy Parent ]

There is a scene in "Pagliacci" ... (2.50 / 2) (#19)
by tilly on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 03:32:36 AM EST

where you have a play within a play. The "audience" on the stage gets to witness an actual murder and, thinking it is all part of the play they've come to see, keep saying "wow! such good acting!" etc.

[ Parent ]
I think Shakespeare did that a few times (3.00 / 2) (#20)
by Wen Jian on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 04:09:06 AM EST

Hamlet, Taming of the Shrew...um...
It was an experiment in lulz. - Rusty
[ Parent ]
resection to padded room (2.00 / 2) (#25)
by chlorus on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 09:12:00 AM EST

you know, while this is still in edit.

Peahippo: Coked-up internet tough guy or creepy Parent ]

I hope you die! (2.00 / 3) (#17)
by j1mmy on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 12:46:37 AM EST


Are we coming to the heart of the matter here? (2.50 / 2) (#18)
by tilly on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 03:27:50 AM EST

[ Parent ]
You shouldn't expect much.. (none / 0) (#173)
by chalito on Tue May 06, 2008 at 12:05:54 PM EST

Funny how everyone agrees you're paranoid, but no one stopped for a second to think there's a reason why you're being paranoid, even if what you think is happening isn't true.
I'm not convinced you're being gassed, really, but that's not the issue here. The issue is, a set of recent events are getting you to the point of believing such a thing.
Even if you're 'disturbed' (As many seem to believe, or want to believe), there's a reason you're living in fear, and if everyone feels better thinking it's just you being nuts, and nothing else.. well.. it's easier to just assume you're a delusional paranoid and move along, I guess.
[ Parent ]
Hate to be the one to break it to you, but... (2.66 / 6) (#23)
by mirleid on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 08:51:16 AM EST

Because, if somebody had talked to me a year ago in the way I am writing now, I would have said this guy sounds like a paranoid nutcase.

...you still sound like a paranoid nutcase now...Maybe we've been somehow transported 1 year back in time, who knows...

Chickens don't give milk
Just leave a candle burning (2.75 / 8) (#24)
by GhostOfTiber on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 09:08:42 AM EST

Candles are proven scientifically to burn sleep gas and only emit pure oxygen in the process. You should look it up.

[Nimey's] wife's ass is my cocksheath. - undermyne

This reminds me of an article a few years ago. (2.80 / 5) (#26)
by BadDoggie on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 09:29:30 AM EST

You're otherkin.


"Eppur si muove." -- Galileo Galilei
"Nevertheless, it moves."

MTV, -1: sorry (none / 1) (#27)
by ksandstr on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 09:45:04 AM EST

But this kind of behaviour cannot be tolerated of a subject. Please remain where you are, the collection unit is en route to gather your presence and transportinificationize it to the spiritinifical cleanizecator.

Some things that may help you (3.00 / 22) (#29)
by rusty on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 10:09:50 AM EST

First of all, the government is not gassing you in your sleep, or to sleep, or in general poisoning you on purpose in any way. This is a delusion, and the tighter you cling to it, the more you will appear to be paranoid and possibly schitzophrenic. If you can, try to let this idea go. It's not true. When the government wants to harass you, they will come and take you to Gitmo, and it will be blindingly obvious that you are being harassed by the government. They are not subtle, and have no need to be. And they won't do this to you anyway. You are not important. Sorry, but it's true. Let go of this idea too, if you can. You're basically stitching together a lot of relatively ordinary occurrences with the delusion of personal importance and persecution by larger forces. This is the classic definition of paranoia.

Second, I agree with others here about mold testing. If you're not in fact suffering from a mental illness (although it's pretty clear that you are) this is the only thing at all likely to produce symptoms like you describe. From what you say though, it could just as well be dry air in the house, or ordinary dust. I often wake up feeling like I have an accumulation of gunk in my throat. It's just dust. Cats lick themselves all the time. That is not an indication of anything unusual.

So finally, please seek psychological assistance. This place will not really help you, unless you take my advice. Just find a counselor and talk to them about this stuff. Your doctor can probably recommend one, if you have a doctor. Otherwise many towns and states have free help lines you can call. If there's nothing wrong with you, then no harm will be done by it. But it does sound like you at the very least have a sleep disorder of some kind, which may be throwing off your cognition enough to produce the other sensations you're describing.

I really can't stress this enough. Please, please talk to a psychiatrist or a counselor about all this. If you haven't read it, this might be of interest as well.

Not the real rusty

You have little appreciation, Rusty, ... (3.00 / 3) (#32)
by tilly on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 12:31:24 PM EST

how Kafkaesque this country has become for people - especially men - of Middle Eastern origin. The nearest historical analogy would be the experience of being a Jew in 1930's Germany.

[ Parent ]
Not true at all (2.50 / 6) (#34)
by sausalito on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 01:36:05 PM EST

I know many people of Middle-Eastern origin (mostly Lebanese, some Syrians etc) that live and do business in and with the US.

Anyway, get someone else to validate and examine your experiences. Go to an allergologist, get a blood test and a urine test. Then you'll have something to work on to understand what is happening to you.

GBH - "The whole point is that the App Store acts as a firewall between busy soccer moms and goatse links"
[ Parent ]

That is the lullaby you sing to yourself ... (3.00 / 2) (#49)
by tilly on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 10:36:01 PM EST

Just the amount of pure hatred appearing in the comments in this page should give you pause before you make an assertion like that. In my experience, most of the people of Middle Eastern origin that I used to come accross in my daily life have disappeared: doctors and technicians in Kaiser and other hospitals, salesmen at Fry's etc. I seem to be the only dumb one staying on ... 1930's Germany analogy is again valid.

[ Parent ]
Some questions (2.00 / 3) (#56)
by jnana on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 12:59:05 AM EST

So they've shipped everybody else of middle eastern descent off to the gas ovens or soap factory already, but you are so special that they chose to spend millions of dollars to slowly gas and poison you?

What makes you so special?--so much more than the doctors and technicians? Or do you believe they all left because they were gassed for months until they voluntarily fled?

[ Parent ]

OK ... (2.50 / 2) (#74)
by tilly on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 10:20:31 PM EST

I'm talking late-1920's-early-1930's Germany not late-1930's-early-1940's Germany ...

However, one severe terrorist attack, and it seems ready to transform from the former to the latter .

And the people I'm talking in our time have fled the hostility of which there is plenty of evidence right on these pages.

[ Parent ]

But this is kuro5hin... (1.50 / 2) (#155)
by PylonHead on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:41:08 PM EST

There is always hostility on these pages.  If it weren't directed as racism, they'd find something else to flame you for.

And you're right.  There is an elevated level of racism in this country against people of Middle Eastern origin.

To turn an old joke on its head: "Just because they're out to get you, doesn't mean you're not paranoid."

[ Parent ]

no kidding (none / 1) (#101)
by Liar on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 03:52:11 PM EST

At this navy base here, I work with several civilian government employees who are muslims. One guy in particular even got a promotion a week ago to GS13 (Congrats, Mo).

You'd think they'd start with those already working in the government/military or other sensitive positions first.

I admit I'm a Liar. That's why you can trust me.
[ Parent ]
You haven't told me anything... (2.50 / 4) (#36)
by rusty on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 02:31:48 PM EST

...to support that. What actual events have been Kafkaesque for you? Not to say there aren't any, but I am saying they aren't these weird, apparently purposeless subtle gassings and so forth. People who have had to deal with INS (whatever they're calling it now) can tell stories of bureaucracy to make your hair stand up. But there's no sneaking around to it.

Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
I agree with Rusty (2.75 / 4) (#44)
by khallow on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:50:16 PM EST

The US government is not this subtle. And neither were the Nazis.

Stating the obvious since 1969.
[ Parent ]

"You are not important." (2.33 / 3) (#50)
by tilly on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 10:59:58 PM EST

Yes, from one point of view, I may just be some disposable chump they test stuff on.

The significance of a sleep-gas tool for warfare and black-ops should be obvious.

But I just crossed a line I have been careful not to cross till now. Deviate from what I know for sure into speculation.

Frankly, I am not even asserting for certain that this is government-work but, considering the resources required, that is one possibility that stands out.

[ Parent ]

Your responses are more paranoid than rational (2.60 / 5) (#58)
by jnana on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 01:12:08 AM EST

You haven't responded rationally to any of the alternate explanations that have been offered. That is a sign that your problems are psychological.

If you were a rational person, then blood tests, visits to an allergist, doctor and/or psychiatrist, getting people to test your home and verify that there's no mold or other environmental problems, etc. -- these sorts of things would be the first you'd do.

Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you. But the fact that you only want to think and talk about the conspiracy hypotheses strongly indicates that your problems are psychological in nature.

[ Parent ]

That is because ... (none / 1) (#77)
by tilly on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 11:10:16 PM EST

I have been drawn to speculate which I tried not to do in my story. I tried to stick to what I know for sure which is the effects of these events on my body. It is very tempting to speculate on the causes of strange events - the mind thirsts for an explanation - and strange events invite strange explanations which are easy to knock down.

As for the alternate explanations that were given, I mean those that make sense, they are refuted by the totality of my experiences.

I mean you can explain event A by coincidence, event B by a trick of senses, event C by a lapse of memory etc but when they happen one after another in series, it becomes a different matter.

It will take me an effort to give a sense of the this totality and I will make that effort and I will also provide additional concrete details which I am witholding so far out of prudence. That is, if this story is not dumped because, otherwise, I am howling into the wind and wasting energy.

[ Parent ]

Explanations (2.83 / 6) (#86)
by Sgt York on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 10:05:01 AM EST

I mean you can explain event A by coincidence, event B by a trick of senses, event C by a lapse of memory etc but when they happen one after another in series, it becomes a different matter.
But you can explain A, B, and C with a single explanation; that you are mentally ill. It is a valid alternate explanation, and your failure to accept it as a even as a possibility lends it a good bit of credibility in our minds.

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.
[ Parent ]

Whatever you do, don't listen to rusty... (1.66 / 6) (#64)
by sholden on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 10:03:47 AM EST

Getting in the mental health system is just what they want. That's why they are spending millions of dollars secretly gassing you. They want you to "seek psychological assistance" so they can whisk you away "for your own good".

You are too important to just have shot in a "he pulled a gun on me, I was forced to shoot him" law enforcement encounter like all the unimportant people the government gets annoyed with. Or just shipped to a Syria for some torture like the slightly more important people.

If you haven't already get a gun, before they trick you into doing something that will prevent you from being allowed to (like seeking psychological assistance).

You mentioned having your home tested for CO  leaks, you didn't let a technician/serviceman into your house did you?

The world's dullest web page

[ Parent ]
Find someone you love and trust (3.00 / 3) (#150)
by PylonHead on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 02:39:26 PM EST

Rusty is right.  What you're going through right now is mental illness.  But I know you're not going to take the word of a bunch of random strangers on the internet.

Find someone you trust, someone who loves you, or better yet, many people.  Show them what you've written here, and be open to what they tell you.

I have a friend going through the same thing right now.  She moved to Salt Lake city for a job.  She doesn't have any friends in the city.  She feels alienated working at an engineering company where she's the only woman.

She started telling us about how messed up her work was.  It started out with the usual "my boss sucks" kind of stuff.  It slowly escalated to "they drugged me at the company party" and "they've bugged my apartment" and "two of the guys I work with are really government agents".

She's just as convinced as you are.  One week she'll tell us they're collecting information on her so they can fire her, then the next week, they end up giving her a raise.  She tells us they're just trying to keep her off balance.  

We've been encouraging her to get help.  Talk to a psychiatrist, but she's convinced that it's not in her head.  She thinks we're just not seeing what's going on.

I can understand.  It's a scary idea to contemplate.. that your brain may not be working the way it should.

We're trying to give her what support we can, and encourage her to get out of the toxic environment that is making her unhappy.  

[ Parent ]

You have 3 issues other than the government (none / 0) (#175)
by thogard on Sat May 10, 2008 at 10:38:33 AM EST

Rusty is right about the toxic mould testing but I'm not sure a psychiatrist is required yet.  If the government is out to get you,
you will know about it and since your symptoms don't include odd trips at strange hours with hood over your head and mean guys with guns, I don't think they are out to get you.

Do you have a gas heater, water heater or oven? Maybe Oil or something other than electrical?  I think your suffering from CO poisoning which can lead to the paranoia that you are dealing with.  Its killing your heart which is why you feel the cold wisps on your face and why your ears are ringing.  Have you checked your blood pressure?  I would guess the  lower number is over 100 most of the time with drops to normal around the mid 70s.

Google for something like a ToxiRae 3 CO and get it.  Its about $180 and it will tell you what CO levels your breathing in your car.  Its much better than the cheap CO systems from first alert.

Lets assume your having high BP, CO problems and toxic mould.  That would clearly explain 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, part of 6, and 7.

Your showing signs of being nuts but I expect that may be a result of other other things and being suspeicous is a natural part of "fight or flight" and if your subject to the right kind of stiumulus, you may be in that state way more than is healthy.

Others have listed a few things that you can do.  High blood pressure can cause 1,2, 5, part of 6 & 7 so drop the salt and get your blood pressure tested at a local pharmacy.  Toxic mould can cause all 7 but 4 is a kicker.  Look in a mirror and see if you have white junk in holes in the back of your throat.  If so thats the junk that is being flushed out of your nose and its a sure sign of an allergic over reaction to something such as toxic mould or dust mites or hay fever.

Now look at #3... if you can't breath, after 2 minutes your dead so you could breath so that is looking like a panic attack...  that can be brought on by changes in blood pressure, co gassing, or toxic mould.

You need to find the problem and get rid of it and if its 3 problems, its going to be harder.

[ Parent ]

bogus (none / 1) (#176)
by tomlord on Fri May 16, 2008 at 06:27:29 PM EST

You can't diagnose that glibly.

There are other explanations, including yeah, people f-ing with you.

[ Parent ]

WELCOME TO K5 (2.71 / 7) (#30)
by ray eckson on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 12:06:58 PM EST


wampsy: hey ray why don't you start up a site. you could call it ray5.
rusty: I gotta fix that stupid cancel bug.
booger: How's that for daring to get ray eckson all sniffy, you cow?
poopy: Not that I'm gay or anything, but for you I might make an exception.
"thru" is not a fucking word (2.66 / 6) (#37)
by nostalgiphile on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 02:33:27 PM EST

stop using it THROUGHOUT.

Also, this was an X-Files episode:"Pivotal". Might want to watch it again to figure out what to do next.

"Depending on your perspective you are an optimist or a pessimist[,] and a hopeless one too." --trhurler

don't forget "nite" (none / 1) (#136)
by LodeRunner on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 04:49:58 PM EST

You complained about "thru" and let "nite" pass. Interestingly, that jumped at me more than "thru", but maybe it's because I'm used to "thru" from "MIDI Thru" cable inputs which are usually present in synthesizers and other music equipment. (I think they write "Thru" because writing "Through" would make the text wider than the actual input, at least with a decent font size with which they write "In" and "Out" in the neighboring cable inputs.)

"dude, you can't even spell your own name" -- Lode Runner
[ Parent ]

consider this: (2.57 / 7) (#38)
by loteck on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 03:14:37 PM EST

what you think is happening may very well be precisely what is going on. governments have historically perpetrated far more elaborate schemes against dissenters in the past, and we both know that this current administration is doing its fair share of illegal operations behind the curtain.

if it was so, they likely want you to know that it is happening so that you will go and express these concerns to others, who will of course think you are absolutely crazy. this diminishes your credibility without the government having to directly attack you.

if they can just keep you constantly drowsy and at the same time let prolonged exposure to the gas begin to cause you more serious problems, they can ultimately discredit you when you start telling people about it.

you should inspect your cat for any sign of intrusion or espionage, because poisoning you or recording you via a surgical implantation in a house pet is not an uncommon way for secret government agencies to operate. if you have doubts, some have gone as far as to feed the pet to a microwave or a blender in order to obtain incontrovertible proof of their theories.

you may just want to leave your house completely and live on the street for awhile. the cat would be likely to follow you, though, so i would say blend him first and sift through the remains to find any microchips or transmitters. if you don't have a blender, try the garbage disposal.

good luck man, and dont let the brainwashed government sheep around here try to discredit your intuitions by claiming that you are paranoid or unstable. remember a quote from one of my favorite people of all time: "paranoids are just people who have all the information".
"You're in tune to the musical sound of loteck hi-fi, the musical sound that moves right round. Keep on moving ya'll." -Mylakovich

Bad Troll! (none / 0) (#59)
by jnana on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 01:18:25 AM EST

Will you actually be happy if the guy puts his cat in the blender or cuts open his dog with a machete?

[ Parent ]
i'll be indifferent (2.00 / 2) (#98)
by loteck on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 02:23:37 PM EST

unless he includes HIREZ, in which case i will be overjoyed.
"You're in tune to the musical sound of loteck hi-fi, the musical sound that moves right round. Keep on moving ya'll." -Mylakovich

[ Parent ]
Not what you think it is (3.00 / 8) (#39)
by pyro9 on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 03:26:26 PM EST

You should know that this is likely not what you think it is. As a sufferer of insomnia, you may not be familliar with the normal process of falling asleep, but the points you mentioned in 1) are perfectly normal.

That is, if you stay awake in spite of being tired, when you do go to bed, you tend to drop right off and have little memory of it. If you then get up at the usual tinme in the morning, you'll have little or no recollection of your dreams.

OTOH, by going to bed at first sign of tiredness, you'll fall asleep more slowly and are more likely to vividly recall dreams.

Most people will start to get drowsy if they sit down and relax when tired. Moving about will temporarily wake them up. If the tiredness is more mental than physical, it is indeed easily dismissed at first.

Oddly enough, all of this could be nothing more than a fairly sudden resolution to your long-standing insomnia.

As for point 2, that is called a "panic attack". More properly, it is just a 'glitch' in your sympathetic nervous system. Most everyone has that happen from time to time. If the sensations are passed off as meaningless or something harmless ("shouldn't have had that 3rd hot dog"), they will remain infrequent and fade quickly. If significance is assigned to them, they will be more frequent and are often mis-interpreted as fear. This is what many phobias are made of. A major objective of cognitive therepy is to explore those sensations and break the association of them with fear or physical distress.

Same for point 3.

As to point 4, I get that gunk in my throat when I sleep with the window open on a cold night or when my nose is stuffy. It's just partially dried mucous.

VERY IMPORTANT!!! The headaches and odd sensations could also be from carbon monoxide, you should get a detector just to be safe. Combined smoke/carbon monoxide detectors are widely available. As others have pointed out, toxic mold is also a possability.

It wouldn't hurt to see a doctor just to reassure yourself. I wouldn't go into the causes with him, just describe the concerning symptoms and see whet he concludes. If you do have a medical problem, you may find a doctors explaination to make a LOT of sense.

The future isn't what it used to be
Pacific Gas and Electric ... (none / 1) (#47)
by tilly on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 09:56:32 PM EST

has already tested the residence for CO leaks and given it a clean bill of health.

[ Parent ]
I am at my lunch break now ... (none / 0) (#40)
by tilly on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 04:15:38 PM EST

I will answer some of the comments when I come back from work. I am thankful even for abusive comments so eager am I to shine some daylight on this long nightmare.

STFU and go get cleansed already (2.50 / 2) (#46)
by undermyne on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 08:46:08 PM EST

You sleep soundly, smoke too much, need to open a window at night, and have an ear infection.

And possibly a furnace or other such appliance in need of service as you are probably suffering from CO2 poisoning (by your own hand).

I suggest removing the rag from your head and hanging yourself with it.

"who in his right mind would hand over political power of an entire country, armed with nuclear weapons, to someone with a clitoris?" -
Sounds like 1930's Germany alright ... -nt (none / 1) (#48)
by tilly on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 10:12:24 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Crazy AND stupid. (none / 1) (#66)
by Corwin06 on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 01:01:36 PM EST

-1. Not gonna vote for some stupid sicko's story.

I'll vote up the next story by any intelligent crazy, like last time, though.

If you really think the US is to Arabs what 1930s Germany was to Jews, then, yeah, you need therapy fast.

Or just take to smoking weed and not caring. At least you won't be drugged by Big Pharma products. And you can grow it yourself.

If you take k5 comments as "hateful", you have no place in this site where meta-wankery and trolling are the norm.

"and you sir, in an argument in a thread with a troll in a story no one is reading in a backwater website, you're a fucking genius
[ Parent ]
Oh, jolly! Thanks for setting me right ... (none / 1) (#75)
by tilly on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 10:36:54 PM EST

I will now sit back and enjoy the side-splitting humor and wit "in this site where meta-wankery and trolling are the norm":

"I suggest removing the rag from your head and hanging yourself with it"

"I hope you die! Soon!"


[ Parent ]

You must be new here... (none / 1) (#106)
by Corwin06 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:12:48 PM EST

"I suggest removing the rag from your head and hanging yourself with it"

That is funny. Yes. Made me laugh.

OTOH, if you wear a rag on your head and you live in the US, then it's pretty normal that people are scared of you.

"I hope you die! Soon!"

That's not very likely to happen, is it?


Hell does not exist.

What's your problem again? Hmmm... Delirium, delusions, feling persecuted... Bah, fuck you.

Hope you get laid RSN. Helps most mental diseases.

"and you sir, in an argument in a thread with a troll in a story no one is reading in a backwater website, you're a fucking genius
[ Parent ]
It's Jesus (none / 1) (#156)
by ShiftyStoner on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 09:49:07 AM EST

Jesus is the one doing this to you.
( @ )'( @ ) The broad masses of a population are more amenable to the appeal of rhetoric than to any other force. - Adolf Hitler
[ Parent ]
As I said elsewhere ... (none / 1) (#80)
by tilly on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 11:49:43 PM EST

It is late-1920's-early-1930's Germany I had in mind not late-1930's-early-1940's Germany ...

[ Parent ]
Sounds like a troll (2.00 / 3) (#55)
by jnana on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 12:47:55 AM EST

The tone of your story reminds me of the time a college friend called the Art Bell show back in '97 or so, complaining that he had taken part in a university psychology experiment, after which he started losing time and waking up in strange places, and how when he went back to the psych department, they disavowed any knowledge of the experiment or the student. Art lapped it up, of course.

Your average kurobot though is a lot more skeptical than Art Bell, as you've already discovered.

If you're serious, you should recognize that every year people develop mental problems for the first time, and the chances of that being what's happening here rather than the government wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars on a nobody who knows nothing and has done nothing are extremely good (I mean no offense, I'm a nobody, and don't expect the government would waste much effort on me either). Get your house checked out, and if is sound environmentally, see a doctor, get a physical and have basic bloodwork done, and then see a psychiatrist.

Amusing coast-to-coast troll : (2.66 / 3) (#65)
by some nerd on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 11:11:33 AM EST


Home Sweet Home

[ Parent ]
Be seeing you (none / 1) (#60)
by ensignyu on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 04:56:20 AM EST


My thoughts went to (none / 1) (#61)
by tetsuwan on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 06:05:08 AM EST

Old Boy

Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
[ Parent ]

+1 FP, not enough CIA hits on Kuro5hin (2.66 / 3) (#62)
by Wen Jian on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 07:55:35 AM EST

Furthermore, too many crackpots, we need Tilly to level things out.
It was an experiment in lulz. - Rusty
See a professional (2.00 / 2) (#69)
by Xoder on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 04:32:35 PM EST

These are classic signs of mental illness. Please, please, please go see a professional before anything more severe than these delusions begins to appear.

Lately I've been hearing that god's on our side But rumor has it, there's one on their side too So what I'd like to know is, when it comes down to it, can my god kick their god's ass or what?
thats just brain cancer man (none / 1) (#70)
by agreedymonkey on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 04:35:49 PM EST

Assuming you aren't a troll (none / 1) (#71)
by jubal3 on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 05:10:58 PM EST

PLEASE go get some help.

I'm not being an asshole, I don't know anything about you. I DO know however, that "lost time" sensation is a BIG warning sign of several forms of mental illness, most of which are treatable.

Go get some help, have the place tested for mold, as Rusty suggested, but FIRST go see a qualified psychologist or Psychiatrist.

***Never attribute to malice that which can be easily attributed to incompetence. -HB Owen***

Perhaps (none / 1) (#72)
by tweet on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 05:16:54 PM EST

a double bluff with a filing under 'Fiction' would've worked better. Keep working on those poor trolling skills tho (th0?,thoug?,thuuuuu?)

Not everything in black and white makes sense.

I would go with "dough" -nt (none / 1) (#79)
by tilly on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 11:39:07 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I'd go with "dough" -nt (none / 0) (#81)
by tilly on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 12:13:16 AM EST

[ Parent ]
LOL n/t (2.00 / 2) (#73)
by anaesthetica on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 06:11:59 PM EST

—I'm the little engine that didn't.
k5: our trolls go to eleven

so you're tired, having panic attacks.... (2.75 / 4) (#76)
by Linux or FreeBSD on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 10:59:58 PM EST

but holy shit your cats are licking their tongues!? how the fuck?

It is a neat trick! To lick one's own tongue .. (none / 1) (#78)
by tilly on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 11:19:04 PM EST

Maybe I should have said "licking their lips" except cats dont have lips, do they?

Normally, when a cat brings out its tongue it is for licking its fur. The tongue does not come out and go back in for no apparent reason!

[ Parent ]

lol (2.66 / 3) (#82)
by Linux or FreeBSD on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 12:42:22 AM EST

even if there is something toxic in your environment, how the fuck are you so convinced it's intentional? goofy, delusional circumstantial evidence? do you think you're being rational? anyway...

are you talking about a gas or an aerosol? what the fuck do you mean by "injected gas?" assuming that any of this is true (lol)... i'm guessing the "gas" in question is probably not a protein or other macromolecule. it's odorless (or toxic at undetectable concentrations). so it's obviously not ether, chloroform, or nitrous oxide, and i think you can smell haloalkane anesthetics (and cyclopropane) too. regardless, it somehow has to be able to reach an effective concentration in your (presumably not airtight) townhouse, while not affecting your neighbors or asphyxiating you. then the gas dissipates quickly enough for you to wake up. and your cats, who (i assume) are home more often than you, aren't dead. of course this is speculation, but considering your standard for "proof"...

besides, what you describe doesn't sound like the effects of an inhalation anesthetic (or any other drug, for that matter). in fact, it all sounds pretty fucking normal. get some fucking help. seriously.

[ Parent ]
you can speculate a lot better than I can ... (none / 1) (#83)
by tilly on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 02:00:05 AM EST

first of all, the cats have not been healthy; a lot of unexplained weight loss, excessive vomiting etc

And I am alive after 4 months; so we're not talking sth acutely toxic here. OTOH, my blood pressure have been going up during these months. I read on the internet and got scared by info about (micron-sized) polymers that can pass thru the lungs' filters and get into the bloodstream and raise blood pressure. Dont know about the reliability of this info.

There is a whole story with the single neighboring family I shared the building with that jives with all this but I will not get into that at this time.

The cold sensation of the "air" might be due to the fact that the gas was recently compressed as a liquid in a tank.

The electrical wires and outlets are my main suspect for the delivery method. At times, I was - kinda - able to follow with my hands the cold air draft/movement towards the light fixture. Following the feed line from the main electrical panel to the fixture is something I should do but I am not electrician and frankly timid about tearing up my house. I dont know what a "normal" feed looks like so I probly cannot tell what is abnormal. However, if the feed line disappears into the firewall into the next unit, that would be a give-away wouldnt it? Also, putting a junction box into the feed line just before the electrical fixture would break the continuity of the line and it is something else I should do. If there are any electricians out there, I would appreciate any input.

The easiest thing here is to say I am crazy and that has been said enough times so please dont repeat that. Curiously, that possibility, scary as it itself is, has not worried me much. There is nothing crazy, for example, about the burning sensation in my lungs I mentioned or running to the window gasping for air etc.

[ Parent ]

Right (none / 1) (#84)
by some nerd on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:28:54 AM EST

If this isn't a troll then your symptoms are real, you are suffering and this does need addressing. That wasn't disputed. However, there are rather more probable causes than an expensive and risky black ops harassment campaign with no credible motivation or stated goal. As others have said, if the US government wanted to silence you - which they don't, and even if they did you would be at the bottom of a very long list of more prominent dissenters - they would let you know in no uncertain terms that was exactly what they wanted.

I doubt you'll believe the above, since your elaborate theories all seems perfectly rational to you. But please, at least thoroughly explore the possibility that you are suffering from a combination of real symptoms and paranoid schizophrenia ... because you are.

Home Sweet Home

[ Parent ]

How does one know one is crazy? (3.00 / 5) (#99)
by ghjm on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 03:02:10 PM EST

Have you ever met a crazy person? They think what they're saying makes perfect sense. They add up the observations they've made, apply logic to them, and produce a result. Everyone else can see that the result is wrong - the observations are non-factual, the logic machine is broken, or usually both.

They don't know they're crazy. The only way for a person to know they are crazy is if other people tell them. But it's very hard for a crazy person to believe this. It does, after all, contradict the direct evidence of their senses and judgment. The idea that some directly-perceived experience was not real seems outlandish. It seems much more likely that everyone has simply failed to understand the situation due to inadequacies of communication. What's real is real, otherwise nothing makes any sense, right?

But that's precisely the point: What a crazy person thinks is real might not actually be real. The proof of being not-crazy (I truly perceive these things; therefore these things are not evidence of false perception) is circular.

So what about tilly's situation? Tilly must either be crazy or sane, and there must either be or not be an outside influence. This means there are four possibilities:

1. Tilly is not crazy and there is no outside influence. All the events described did in fact happen but they all have simple explanations. Since tilly is not crazy, we must accept that his analysis discredits the simple explanations. Therefore the outside influence must exist, which is a contradiction. So this is not a plausible scenario.

2. Tilly is crazy through no outside influence. Some of the events described may have really happened; some may be imagined. Of those events that really happened, there are simple explanations. Because tilly is crazy, it does not matter that he believes the simple explanations are impossible; an impartial, non-crazy observer must be called in if we want to determine which of the the events really happened and which did not.

3. Tilly is not crazy and there is an outside influence. All the events described were the intentional actions of a malevolent third party, possibly the government. If this is the case, then the rational analysis of everyone on k5 must be wrong, because everyone on k5 is either malevolent or insane. This is a pretty outlandish result, but it is not logically impossible. An impartial, non-crazy observer will need to be called in to determine whether all of k5 is crazy or not.

4. Tilly is crazy because of an outside influence. Some of the events described were the intentional actions of a malevolent third party. The original, real events unbalanced tilly's mind, so some of the later events may not be real. If tilly wishes to know which experiences are real and which are not, then he will need to call in an impartial, non-crazy observer.

So given that scenario #1 is logically impossible, and scenarios #2, #3 and #4 all require an impartial, non-crazy observer, it seems like calling on such a person would be a good idea. Psychologists are professionally certified to be, in so many words, demonstrably non-crazy.

Look at it this way: You are asking for resources from the community in dealing with the malevolent entity who is doing this to you. Bringing in a psychologist to certify that you are not crazy is simply the price that the community demands in exchange for this service.


[ Parent ]

neighbors (none / 1) (#109)
by dirvish on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:39:07 PM EST

Clearly your neighbors are secret agents.  They are pumping the gas in through your shared wall.  I imagine if you break into their house while they are away you will find the tanks of gas that they have been using on you.

Just kidding, you're crazy.  Listen to Rusty and the others: get a mold test and contact a doctor.

Here is my uneducated and unqualified diagnoses:  Schizophrenia

Technical Certification Blog, Anti Spam Blog
[ Parent ]

Objective hypothesis testing (none / 1) (#138)
by Pentashagon on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 06:46:38 PM EST

You've made a hypothesis, now conduct some scientific research.

You claim that the most likely source for "sleep" gas is through your electrical wiring. Look up electricity and home wiring on wikipedia or any number of other Internet sites, and see if that makes any sense at all.

If you can't trust Wikipedia and/or the entire Internet, then you must conclude that a majority of the entire world is out to get you. That is a very clear sign of mental illness.

Here's some basic steps: Turn off the circuit breaker to the room you want to inspect, open up the outlets and light switches and inspect the wiring. Most wires are stripped to an inch or so of copper (or aluminum, if it's from a narrow period of construction during a copper shortage), and you can unscrew the terminals and inspect the wiring. Often there's enough wire to snip the ends off and reterminate it, thus proving to yourself that the wire is in fact a solid piece of metal wrapped tightly with insulation. If you still don't believe it, look up the noble gas laws and Bernoulli's principle and work out how much volume of gas would need to be injected through any invisible (e.g. microscopic) tubes in your wiring and more importantly what pressure it would have to be under, and then try to come up with a theory about why you wouldn't hear so much gas at such high pressure blasting into the room.

Now that you've disproven your hypothesis, you really need to consider whether your successive paranoid hypothesis about the air ducts, radiators, plumbing, magic, God, the Devil, or any other utterly nonscientific bullshit are worth coming up with, or if you should just test the mental illness hypothesis out next. It's quite simple to convince yourself that you're not mentally ill, and that's to ask some professional doctors.

Either professional doctors will tell you that you're not mentally ill, in which case great. The only other possibilities are that they will tell you that you are mentally ill, and they'll either be lying or telling the truth. Scientifically, you can test whether it's more likely that all the doctors you can find are lying to you versus the likelihood that you actually are experiencing mental illness. There appears to be a very ingrained behavior in most people to trust ultimately in their own experience of the world instead of trusting other people's conflicting viewpoints. You'll have to get past that barrier in order to deal with mental illness, but I'm pretty sure you can still convince yourself with statistics whether you are mentally ill or not. I have no experience with mental illness, but my guess is that repeatable mathematical experiments are possible even with mental illness, and if you can't perform repeatable mathematics, it's a good sign you're crazy.

[ Parent ]

This really feels like a troll (2.80 / 5) (#85)
by Sgt York on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 09:41:15 AM EST

But it's a convincing one, convincing enough to say you need to get some help.

OK, how's this. Proof or STFU. You have a sample. I assume there is a pet store somewhere near you. Get some mice and conduct a few experiments. Be sure to videotape it and post it to youtube with links here. Just be sure to do it all at once, don't want them knocking you out and taking/altering the tape.

Here's your method: Get 6 mice and two cages, set up 3 mice to a cage; do all six mice at the same time. Any glass, or Lexan (plexiglass) box that you can cover will work as a cage. Avoid plastic; it's too reactive. Airtight is probably not necessary as the stuff works on you in a large, relatively well-ventilated space. Point a video camera at both cages. Put three mice in each cage. Drop the sponge thing in there, see what happens.

If you think the stuff needs to be heated to liberate the gas, get 2 saucepans, 2 metal funnels that are about as wide as the saucepans, and some plastic tubing. Rig the two saucepans with the funnels over the top, with tubing leading to the cages. In one saucepan, put the sample. In the other, put nothing. Turn on the exhaust fan over your stove and turn up the heat on both.

Mouse respiratory systems are pretty damn similar to our own. Due to the size differential, an anesthetic dose enough to knock you out may kill the mice.

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.

a historic personage: (3.00 / 2) (#88)
by Perianwyr on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 10:51:26 AM EST

james "tilly" matthews

[ Parent ]
for to see mad Tom of bedlam (1.50 / 2) (#91)
by mrbastard on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 12:03:03 PM EST

ten thousand miles I'd travel
mad maudlin goes on dirty toes
for to save her shoes from gravel

"ohmygod I have a boyfriend" - Wen Jian
[ Parent ]

WHY DO YOU HATE ORKNEYJAR?! (none / 1) (#92)
by Wen Jian on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 12:07:12 PM EST

It was an experiment in lulz. - Rusty
[ Parent ]
they helped the uboats in wwii (none / 1) (#93)
by mrbastard on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 12:19:02 PM EST


"ohmygod I have a boyfriend" - Wen Jian
[ Parent ]

But I thought that nazi characters were banned? (2.50 / 2) (#104)
by Wen Jian on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 04:25:42 PM EST

It was an experiment in lulz. - Rusty
[ Parent ]
WHY DO YOU HATE MICE? (none / 1) (#89)
by rusty on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 10:55:16 AM EST

Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
MOUSE LOVER = AMERICA HATER (3.00 / 3) (#90)
by Sgt York on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 11:08:23 AM EST

Why don't you go back to Mousikakistan if you love them so much?

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.
[ Parent ]

also (3.00 / 3) (#95)
by rhiannon on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 12:48:11 PM EST

put the mice in the blender after you're done, for science of course.

I continued to rebuff the advances... so many advances... of so many attractive women. -MC
[ Parent ]
Funny (none / 1) (#97)
by Sgt York on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 01:21:47 PM EST

because it's true

Yes, I have one of these.
Yes, I use it regularly.
Yes, it is a pain in the ass to clean.

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.
[ Parent ]

DO ALL SIX MICE AT THE SAME TIME (2.50 / 2) (#126)
by Delirium on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 03:30:34 AM EST


[ Parent ]
gay gas (1.00 / 2) (#87)
by Perianwyr on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 10:48:59 AM EST

Look on the bright side; at least they aren't using the gay gas on you. I hear they have problems with that in Finland.

Ok (none / 0) (#169)
by 138 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 06:44:50 AM EST

That explains my frequent visits in teh ghey5.
Siili teki maalin.
[ Parent ]
Sleep apnea? (none / 1) (#96)
by rpresser on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 01:15:48 PM EST

Would explain drowsiness and panicked awakening.
"In terms of both hyperbolic overreaching and eventual wrongness, the Permanent [Republican] Majority has set a new, and truly difficult to beat, standard." --rusty
FUCKIN LOL (3.00 / 2) (#100)
by ray eckson on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 03:11:38 PM EST

I love it.  K5 the internet loony bin

wampsy: hey ray why don't you start up a site. you could call it ray5.
rusty: I gotta fix that stupid cancel bug.
booger: How's that for daring to get ray eckson all sniffy, you cow?
poopy: Not that I'm gay or anything, but for you I might make an exception.
This might sound funny (2.66 / 6) (#102)
by the77x42 on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 03:59:55 PM EST

But I actually work for the government. I am against what we are doing, so I thought I should let you know before it goes too far. They have tracked you down to this site and story and as a result, are about to administer lethal doses of the nerve agent to you sometime this weekend.

You must kill all of your cats. The nerve agent was biologically inserted into them the last time you brought them to the vet. The lethal dosage of the nerve agent will be passed into the cats through some food left outside your residence. You must kill them now!

"We're not here to educate. We're here to point and laugh." - creature
"You have some pretty stupid ideas." - indubitable ‮

WHERE'S THE HIREZPRUF? (none / 1) (#103)
by LittleZephyr on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 04:25:06 PM EST

tilly, several people have asked for you easily providable evidence. Where are the photos of the black spongy substance? Where are the disassembled light fixtures with gas tanks?

(\♥/) What if instead of posting that comment,
(0.-) you had actually taken a knife and stabbed
("_") me in the eye? You murderer. ~ Rusty

He might sound crazy to you.... (2.00 / 2) (#105)
by meridian on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 05:32:37 PM EST

It is right at the moment when you are about to fall asleep that the shock in your chest occurs as if someone knows you are about to slip into sleep and does not let you even get 1 second of it, perhaps to pissing you off/pay you back and torturing you not allowing to let you get to sleep?

Have you possible pissed of someone like one of the major software company which huge resources? Just out of interest (I will mention what I did).

I experienced the same thing for a long time. I have moved to somewhere that is not a "permanent residence" and is on the ground floor so they can not simple stand under me in the room below. If I go and sleep back at my mothers house it will start again. If I don't sleep at my mothers house for a long time they give me hell when I return as if they have been waiting to play with me. It is hell I know what you are going through. I assume they will not bother to dig anything out from under here.

Consider if you have a fine line at the bottom of your rib cage and also a fine line right around your throat.


Yes everyone will tell you you are crazy. Where I am now is not so bad. I will move again when it becomes so.

ow well (2.50 / 2) (#107)
by meridian on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:14:23 PM EST

I know I sound crazy hahah. I'm just offering some potentially helpful advice. I go between convincing myself I'm insane and thinking it really happens. It's much easier to just believe you are insane and get on with your life and move to an environment where it doesn't happen.

It may be that your brain does some kind of physical check on your heart right before the moment of sleep and if all isn't good then it wakes you up again.

Mental health issues or your body being subverted by arseholes who like playing games with it either way really sucks. It could just be you are unhealthy, it could be something in the environment, it could be they arent out to get you because they already have. I tell myself why they have done it to me (not so much lately) and try and figure it all out but its simpler to try forget about it, move, take care of yourself and pray it don't come back. Perhaps it happens at my mums because I was thre alot when it was at its worst and it is imprinted on my brain, not because its the place where they must have been coming at me with invisible suits when I was at my most paranoid and chasing things I could not see or hear around the back yard with a picth fork because someone had to be doing it.

Just because a wall speaks back when i vocalise how much I hate americans is not necessarily further proof it is happening, and even if it is then just move houses :)

[ Parent ]

and... (2.50 / 2) (#108)
by meridian on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:20:21 PM EST

Make sure you have no shared walls and its a solid ground underneath you and not a hollow roof above just incase :) It's working for me

[ Parent ]
One last thing (2.50 / 2) (#110)
by meridian on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 06:42:09 PM EST

Funny you said about the war iraq opposition thing, just went back and reread your story again.

It started happening to me just after I redirected my site tha.net to one of my other sites www.worldwar3.org with a poem about war oposition around the same time you made your postings (in 2002)

Its still viewable here.


I soon after took down all my sites in an attempt to make it stop, and have not put them back up since.

[ Parent ]

When the cancer finally kills you (none / 1) (#111)
by sllort on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:02:47 PM EST

You're going to wish you could feel so fucking stupid for writing this.
Warning: On Lawn is a documented liar.
Hey (none / 1) (#112)
by meridian on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 07:33:13 PM EST

I dont know if your comment is meant for me or Tilly but either way, I'd feel stupider if I never bothered posting anything about it when someone else had similar experiences :)

Besides all my friends family already know I am (er was) crazy and still love me anyway! Besides it makes life more interesting.

I'm going to assume your comment is not a threat (to me or Tilly) because getting on with life and not worrying about shit like that is the best way to deal with it.

[ Parent ]

oh sorry. I was smoking a blunt in your Backyard (2.66 / 3) (#113)
by wastedyears on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 10:41:53 PM EST

and the smoke wafted in your window.

WWW.ROFLKING.COM The King of wierd pictures.

Singular occurrence I: The Case of the Shaved Cat (3.00 / 2) (#114)
by tilly on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 02:51:58 AM EST

Jeez! Here I am ... I put up the story in order to publicize my experiences. It was my intent that it would be posted. But now, finding it on the front page, I realize how much part of me hoped it would be dumped. So, if you would cut me some slack, I am going to start slow ...

One day about 3 months ago, I notice while playing with one of my cats what appears to be a shaved area on its neck. This is roughly a rectangle 1 - 1.5 inches accross and twice that long down. The top and the sides are fairly straight; the lower edge is not - it is wavy. There is a little fuzz growing there so it must have been a while since the fur was removed. And there is, in the middle of the rectangle, what appears to be a needle mark with a tiny scab on it.

I immediately take her to the vet - there is one in the neighborhood where you can drop in:

"Somebody drew blood from my cat!", I say.

"No, it cant be!", she replies.

She explains that it is probly the cat that clawed out its fur. She mentions how difficult it is to draw blood from a cat.* She also notes that this does not look like a neat shave. I, for my part, do not point out that one argument sorta voids the other. I am happy; I am relieved. Because I do not want to face the horror of thinking thru the implications of somebody sneaking into my house and drawing blood from one of my cats in the context of the all the other things that is happening to me that I described in the story.

So, I am leaving the place with one hand on the doorknob and the other holding the carrier with the cat in it when

"Although", she says in a voice that has just turned high-pitched, pained (even whiny?), "it is right on the spot."

I walk out without saying a word.

* Anybody who has tried to even pill a cat will realize how true that is. Just imagine the skill involved to stick a needle into the neck of a cat, find a small vein, draw the blood with the cat fully awake. In my experience of couple of decades of owning cats, I know of only one vet who did this right in front of me. Usually, they take the animal to a room in the back where one skillful individual - maybe the only one in that hospital and not necessarily the veterinarian - performs the procedure.

you and crawford must hang out (none / 0) (#115)
by ray eckson on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 02:57:48 AM EST

and have nuthatch parties

wampsy: hey ray why don't you start up a site. you could call it ray5.
rusty: I gotta fix that stupid cancel bug.
booger: How's that for daring to get ray eckson all sniffy, you cow?
poopy: Not that I'm gay or anything, but for you I might make an exception.
[ Parent ]
your cat has an implanted microchip (none / 1) (#119)
by j1mmy on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 01:17:32 PM EST

to id her if the cat runs away and gets picked up by animal control or a pound or a vet. it's been there since you adopted your cat.

[ Parent ]
by tomlord on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 03:01:17 AM EST

Tilly is not crazy in his technological imaginings. If spooks wanted to get on his ass subtly, for whatever reason, it could easily come out sounding like that. I don't quite believe in "sleep gas" as the mechanism but, close enough.

But, I sincerely doubt that that is really what is happening to him. Either he's trolling and it's BS or, a bit more likely, there's some real health issue.

When I read the comments earlier, lots talked about mental illness or sleep apnea. I'm no physic but the hypothesis that struck me is a cardio-vascular problem.

Point being:

Tilly, assuming you aren't trolling:

Get out and make some friends who can give you feedback more closely. A web site won't help without also hurting.

Get thee to a doctor and describe your symptoms (but tone down the scary hypothesis that it is spooks after you -- mention that you "feel like it is someone doing something to you" but don't go further). You need a work-up to test your heart, lungs, blood pressure, nervous system, blood chemistry, etc..... the whole nine yards.


lol! (none / 0) (#123)
by chlorus on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 07:47:15 PM EST

i love how this article brings the legitimately crazy out of the woodwork.

Peahippo: Coked-up internet tough guy or creepy pedophile?
[ Parent ]

heh. (2.50 / 2) (#124)
by tomlord on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 09:55:05 PM EST

The spook comment? Or you think I'm nuts for thinking "cardio-vascular"? You mean the former, I guess.

The small problem is that "harass at a distance in ways that simulate the effects of mental illness" is, in fact, documented as a COINTELPRO / MK-ULTRA kind of hobby of spooks, back in the day. No, really. So, one would wish to presume such shit is over and done with but it wasn't so long ago that, um, yeah, that kind of thing really happened to people and nobody disputes it -- it's record. Gosh and for true.

Bummer, huh?


p.s.: If you just mean I'm a sucker for not pegging the article as a joke or something, that's fine. I'm not familiar with the various names / personalities around here and my understanding is that you have had some people with organic brain difficulties pass through here.

[ Parent ]
by chlorus on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 11:17:15 PM EST

Peahippo: Coked-up internet tough guy or creepy pedophile?
[ Parent ]

Chances are... (1.50 / 2) (#117)
by meridian on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 03:13:03 AM EST

Chances are it just got in a fight.

The trouble is, when there seems to be alot of strange things happening anything out of the ordinary seems to be another sign it is happening and it is really hard to be able to step back and say "OK so i feel really ill, I think someone is trying to hound me by making me think I am crazy and they are doing things to people/things around me to make me more paranoid or for their own reasons"

Firstly if it is happening you will never be able to prove it. If someone was doing something you will never have the resources comapred to them to prove it is. You seriously just need to do eveything you can to get your life back in order.

Serious, you will send yourself more insane trying to figure it out and it is easier to just accept that noone will believe you, perhaps its not real, and do ANYTHING to make the issue go away rather than die trying to figure out what/who is causing it.

I'd advise these things

  1. Move. Move somewhere this is unlikely to happen, where the same chemicals are not around, where you know the neighbours/trust them or move somewhere that "the evil bastards" (as I used to call them) can't or are less likely to do anything.
  2. Get a phychiatrist, take medication he recommends and dont take any other drugs or anything even stay away drinking alot. Eat helthy and exersize.
  3. Dont bother trying to seriously explain it to anyone. Accept noone will believe you. I cant do this so now just make a joke out of telling everyone how insane I am. Its much simpler. Take the medication for a while. Stop it when you feel things are better if you need to. Dont take any anti-depression shit as it can just cause mental instability itself. If your taking anything its probably going to be antipsycotics, eg olanzapine, it wont hurt if your not crazy just make you sleepy and a bit stupider. 5mg is plenty, try only take 2.5 (of course if your doctor recommends)
  4. Make new friends, get out have fun. Worry about serious stuff further down the track, whether working too hard and stres has caused it or is just a cause of it, seriously you need to have some fun and get over it.

And stop posting anything negative about your goverment even if its true. They have much deeper pockets than you and if they want to make you think your insane as punishment you wont be able to stop them! Just move somewhere the govertment is less of a bastard like China or something :)
I just moved a few suburbs and that worked pretty well after a few tries and some time.

Test It (none / 1) (#120)
by cronian on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 01:40:32 PM EST

If you think there is gas, why don't you get a sensor, and check the the composition of your house's air, and determine if anything is there, or where it is coming from. Even if someone is after you, you offer no proof that it involves the US government. When the evidence is vague, it be needs to be carefully tested, and documented.

We perfect it; Congress kills it; They make it; We Import it; It must be anti-Americanism
Small critters are your salvation. (2.33 / 3) (#121)
by xC0000005 on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 03:50:08 PM EST

Follow Mr York's suggestion, he knows more about the airways of mice than any man I know. Now, given that mice airways are not likely to be a widespread fascination that's not saying much but his point is correct: If it's dosed heavy enough to hit you it'll do a number on mousie. Get a cage of them and tape them constantly. Have an instance, and play back the tape. Did the mice get knocked out and revived too? If so, call the health inspector. Carbon Monoxide poisonin would be similar. If not,listening to the small voice in your head is just fine as long as the voice belongs to a psychiatrist, and it traveled through your ear to get there.

Voice of the Hive - Beekeeping and Bees for those who don't
Simple ways to check (2.50 / 2) (#122)
by MrPeach on Thu Apr 10, 2008 at 04:58:11 PM EST

1) invite someone over for a couple of days. 2) Go stay in a hotel for a couple of days (or with friends) Seriously, everything you wrote smacks of cuckoo, but there are simple ways of telling. FYI. I go to bed and drop right to sleep and seldom remember my dreams. Have been for almost forever. My wife OTOH has trouble sleeping and the slightest thing wakes her. I recently bought a jaw splint to cure my snoring (was waking wife) and now I tend to remember my dreams more. Sleep is a crazy thing, and even scientists don't understand it. I'm voting for you having a snoring problem that manifests itself in a number of ways. One of which may be a feeling of paranoia.

Singular occurrence II: The Case of the a/c Unit (none / 1) (#127)
by tilly on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 04:03:57 AM EST

Singular occurrence II: The Case of the a/c Unit That Fixed Itself.

I have been using for while a window-mounted air-conditioning unit, a generic model, Sears brand. If you look thru the louvers of this model, you can see it has a chamber in the front. The chamber goes about 10 inches deep into the unit and its sides and back are made up of a single shaped styrofoam piece. Embedded in the styrofoam in the back is a circular metal plate which, when turned by the Closed/Exhaust knob, reveals a pie-slice-shaped sieve-opening thru which you can see the grating on the side of the unit and the outside of the building.

But, you see, I learned all about this mechanism only about 3 months ago.

But, you see, I had the unit installed in 2004.

The unit that the contractor who worked for Sears installed had no styrofoam piece, no rotating metal plate. All you could see when you peered thru the louvers was a dark void. The Closed/Exhaust knob was a dumb knob; it made no difference either in the the quality of the air the machine blowed in or in the sound the machine made while operating. I always suspected that he installed a used machine with missing functionality. But it cooled the room alright and I spared myself the energy of making a fuss.

Then I come in one day 3 months ago and I notice the white styrofoam chamber behind the identical front panel. And the Closed/Exhaust knob with regained functionality.

I immediately had the unit removed.

It is sitting in my garage ... I am not looking forward to the hot summer days.

Dude. (none / 0) (#170)
by DavidTC on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:34:07 PM EST

The knob was screwed up. It was jammed closed, like you said, you always suspected it was broken.

And there are a million reasons a knob wouldn't work when you tested it, and then work later. Like the fact it needed to be turned far enough to click into the correct grove, and that hadn't happened. Or there was some gunk in there that got knocked out.

Why on earth would anyone secretly fix your a/c unit? How would they do that?

I know it's going to be very hard to convince you of that, it's hard to convince paranoid people of anything, but what are the motives? Why would people be doing this to you?

If the government wants you out of the way, in reality they trump up some bogus charge and have you arrested. Or have you 'killed in a home invasion'. Or, as it appears you have no close friends who can tell you how crazy your beliefs are, they'd just disappear you.

They wouldn't pump gas in your house to make you sleep. I can think of some conceivable motive for doing that once or twice, if they wanted something in the house and you out of the way, but not for repeatedly doing it. Can you think of any reason? Can you think of any reason that would additionally explain why they let you post this?

As was pointed out, 1) is actually the normal way to go to sleep. People with insomnia do not do that, but the rest of the world does, in fact, lay down or recline until they feel sleepy, and which point they either nod off or move around, which immediately knocks them back awake.

2) sounds like a new heart condition. You're not feeling cold air against your face (How the hell would they aim that?), you're feeling your blood pressure drop. There's not any gas that can cause your heart to act like that, at least not without immediately killing you. (Incidentally, some insomnia is caused by heart conditions, and if that changes, so can your insomnia)

3) If, when you sleep in a certain position, you wake up gasping for air, you have sleep apnea, period. Ask yourself why, if they can hit you in the face when you're in bed, they can't deal with you sleeping with the window open, which could even be seen from outside the house. (It's worth pointing out that apnea can be caused by, wait for it, a heart condition. As can some insomnia.)

So your first three problems are caused by the fact you have a heart condition of some sort, and it changed slightly in 2007, altering your sleeping problems from insomnia to sleep apnea.

While I'm sure you won't see anyone about your paranoia, because, hey, we're all out to get you, I urge you to see a cardiologist. Don't worry, you don't have to tell them what's going on...just tell them you've occasionally woken up at night gasping for breathe, and have heard that could be caused by a heart condition.

4) Everyone has layers of gunk coating their mouth. If you focus, you can feel your hair being pulled out of its sockets by its weight, or your tongue, or your toes touching each other, or all sorts of bodily things you normally ignore. (Great, now you're going to report that the gas makes your hair feel heavy.)

5) Dude, it's called the flu. Or some other infection.

6) is wrong in so many ways. This is where your paranoia really takes root.

First of all, at the movie theater, with your pulse....if there's burning in the lungs, pain with breathing, and you're about to faint, your pulse is high. Pretty much by definition. Your body says 'Hey, I'm about to faint, I better raise my pulse!'. It's not the least bit odd it was high after that.

Secondly, the entire thing sounds exactly like a panic attack. Look up 'panic attack' on Wikipedia, and you'll notice 'Lightheadedness', 'Chest Pain', and 'Shortness of breath' (Incidentally, panic attacks can be caused by, and lead to, heart conditions.)

Thirdly, that white thing....I know it's hard to understand, but just because you think something is true doesn't mean it is. You found something in your driveway. It stained your finger. Don't go making all sorts of assumptions.

7) As has been pointed out, this is just normal electronics hum, possibly coupled with slight normal tinnitus. Again, this is one of those things you don't notice unless you focus on it.

-David T. C.
Yes, my email address is real.
[ Parent ]

Where is MC? (none / 0) (#129)
by waxmop on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 12:12:28 PM EST

This is one time when he could link to his schizoaffective disorder story and nobody would object. Where is he?
there are few things more badass than a lost cause. nailgun
You're fucking wacko (2.33 / 3) (#130)
by godix on Fri Apr 11, 2008 at 02:23:20 PM EST

Assuming that you aren't a troll.

First I'd suggest seeking psychiatric help. But others have suggested that and if you're going to ignore it then my repeating that won't change anything.

Secondly you seem to have a sleep problem. The way you describe waking up sounds like it might be sleep apnea. If so it's probably repeatedly waking up you in the night and affecting the quality of your sleep. The extreme reactions to not getting good sleep can be delusions, irrational thoughts/actions, and paranoia. So if you refuse to consider that you may need mental help perhaps you might consider the need to a doctor specializing in sleep disorders.

If you refuse to seek outside help there's still a few simple things you can do. Invite a friend to sleep over at your place. The next morning ask if they had any weird issues sleeping. Similarly, sleep at your parents, a friends, or even a hotel. See if you still have the same problems. If not it's probably an environmental issue and the mold tests and carbon monoxide detector are good ideas. Perhaps check for radon as well.

You mention feeling a 'blast of air' on your face. So get a cigarette lighter. When you feel the air flip your bic and see if the flame indicts if there really is an air current and if so where it's source is.

Get the black sponge stuff checked out if you still have it.

Next time you get tinnitus at your computer instead of getting up try turning the computer and monitor off and stay there to see if it goes away. It's possible one or the other is producing a sound that causes you problems, especially if either are cheap pieces of crap.

Also something to keep in mind, our government is pretty bad at stuff like this. A simple break in and tapping a phone turned into a months long front page news story that eventually forced a president to resign. We can't fly a few political prisoners from one place to another without the news covering it in detail. Our secret plans to eliminate Castro was an exploding cigar. There are many words to describe our government but competent isn't one of them. Even if you're right and there's people doing this to you, it ain't the government.

- An egotist is someone who thinks they're almost as good as I am.

You have been compromised, too, eh? (3.00 / 3) (#149)
by skim123 on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 01:51:53 AM EST

If you refuse to seek outside help there's still a few simple things you can do. Invite a friend to sleep over at your place. The next morning ask if they had any weird issues sleeping.

But this is futile. If the friend says, "No problems here," then clearly they have been compromised. The government has gotten their hooks into them and coerced them into working for the CIA or whatever agency is doing this gassing.

Similarly, sleep at your parents, a friends, or even a hotel. See if you still have the same problems.

Hello. Don't you think they government would have thought about this? I'm confident that they've already installed the gassing agents in the houses of family and close acquaintances.

It's painfully obvious that you've never been the target of a coordinated government sleeping gas attack.

Money is in some respects like fire; it is a very excellent servant but a terrible master.
PT Barnum

[ Parent ]
Russert/Hayden on Meet The Press (2.50 / 2) (#131)
by tilly on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 06:33:13 AM EST

This comment is only tangentially related to the story above.

Did anyone notice the Dr. Strangelove-like tic on CIA Director General Hayden in the recent "Meet The Press" interview? The reason I mention it is to bring up the following Dr Stranglove-esque portion of that interview:

Mr. Russert: Did you go too far? Did--were innocent people targeted?

Gen. Hayden: That's, that's a great question, and it brings up the whole purpose of, of intelligence, all right? Intelligence isnt about guilt or innocence. Intelligence is about learning things that can protect the American people. So that, for example, if you're to go up on, on an intercept, on a communications path, on, on a communicant,and, and you cover that communicant, and after 30 or 45 days you havent found anything of interest, OK, that doesnt say anything about the innocence of anybody. It may say an awful lot about their operational security.

Tim Russert at this point nods his strong/appreciative agreement.

In other words, innocence does not exist. Once, you come under these people's radar, you are there forever. The more they dont find anything on you, the more they conclude "Wow, this guy hides so well whatever nefarious thing he is up to."

This of course is insanity; what is sane, is to understand what the person is about and what makes him tick and then make a decision as to follow up on him or turn one's resources to other, more productive directions. Resources, however, is not their problem; their problem is something quite the opposite.

I acknowledge the validity of the argument coming from the other side that one needs to err on the side of caution when what is at stake is averting a terrorist act involving WMDs. But I think the dynamic at play is not about erring on the side of caution as much as it is about the major concern of a bureaucracy being to justify its own existence. You have gillion-dollar government bureaucracies charged with fighting domestic terrorism with little to do because terrorism is such a rarely-occurring phenomenon.

Remember the case of the dirty bomber, the Padillo guy? All that fanfare about the dirty bomb? I did not follow the case but I read in a Garrison Keillor column that the only concrete thing produced in his trial was a filled-out application form.

Then there is the case of Los Angeles plotters where you have 4 nobodies - one of them an informer probly egging them on - venting their anger and frustration at society by dreaming together about blowing things up. Now you know these guys were not going to do anything because it they had shown the slightest inclination in that direction, they would not have been rounded up at least until they began to acquire some materiel.

So, Rusty, it is not a question of one being important or one being not important; it is a question of: They need something to do!

OMG! (none / 0) (#135)
by ray eckson on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 02:25:47 PM EST


wampsy: hey ray why don't you start up a site. you could call it ray5.
rusty: I gotta fix that stupid cancel bug.
booger: How's that for daring to get ray eckson all sniffy, you cow?
poopy: Not that I'm gay or anything, but for you I might make an exception.
[ Parent ]
I used to work for the gov't ..... (3.00 / 2) (#141)
by ckm on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:49:45 PM EST

.... and had some contact with TLA (Three Letter Agencies).  Not only that, but my father was a very, very high ranking official at the DoD.

Given what I know, it's highly unlikely that the gov't is doing anything to you (and even if they were, this not what they would do, cf. Jose Padilla).   As others have said, the gov't is not very well organized and is pretty much incapable of doing anything sophisticated except in extremely rare exceptional circumstances (and even then, only with enormous amounts of $$$ and very long forward planning, like the moon landings, and they mostly can't keep those things secret).   You are not an extremely rare circumstance, and, if you were, you would have been taken into custody a long, long time ago (again, cf. Jose Padilla, or all the people arrested after 9/11).

It's easy to imagine up long chains of theories about what the government is doing or not doing, but the reality is that, like most of us, the gov't just fumbles along.   Most people have already pointed this out, but what you are experiencing is probably nothing more than some environmental air quality issues, coupled with some sleeping problems and a lack of human contact.  I would suggest an all inclusive vacation in Mexico somewhere as a way to find yourself.

Oh, and as far as Hayden's statement, what he is saying is that intelligence is about gathering information to understand what is going on.  If you drive your sources crazy (literally or figuratively), how real and accurate is that information going to be?   The reality is that, if you can get information without being noticed or leaving any clues to your presence, that's the best thing possible (that's why there is such a thing as spies).


[ Parent ]

you are wrong (none / 1) (#148)
by tomlord on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 10:38:23 PM EST

You don't need massive coordination for fine control over f-ing with someone. All that you need is excessive and ill-considered "compartmentalization". The incompetence you refer to translates into exactly that. Tilly's story, while unlikely, is very far from implausible.


[ Parent ]
Sorry, but... (none / 1) (#151)
by ckm on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 04:56:12 PM EST

... if you actually think that the federal government bureaucracy is well organized and motivated enough to subtly harass an individual as described, well, then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.  They might throw the book at you or otherwise blatantly destroy your life, but subtlety is not part of the equation (lookup Steve Jackson Games sometime).  The reality is that they have zero need for subtlety.  Perhaps secrecy, but then the goal would be for you to never know.  And if you really think that any gov't agency has true compartmentalized decision making, well, then I have a pot of fool's gold for your pleasure.  

Sorry, but having seen quite a few parts of the US Gov't up close and personal for years, I quite sure that most conspiracy theories are just that, theories.

But, please, if you've actually worked for a gov't agency, I'd love to hear experience different than mine.  Otherwise, you are just speculating or watching too much X-files.


[ Parent ]

you misunderstand (2.00 / 2) (#152)
by tomlord on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:06:02 PM EST

The bureaucracy as a whole is not that organized or motivated... I grant you. It's exactly what it looks like for the most part: a bunch of civil servants organized into the customary disorder.

But, how did it happen last time? A mere 30-40 years ago on record? It wasn't the bureaucracy subtly messing with people -- it was narrow little chains within the bureaucracy, shielding themselves under the cover of "compartmentalization".

You mentioned yr dad having been high in DoD and so, either he was in or should have been aware of (for example) military intelligence (Groucho's oxymorons aside). So, you should be aware or have an idea what "compartmentalization" means. It basically means extra-legal territory for small orgs. Now throw some sadists and smooth talkers in one of those silos. That IS WHAT HAPPENED and is well documented in things such as the MKULTRA foo.

Now, it's dangerous talk on multiple levels. Let sleeping bears sleep, on the one hand. And don't make things worse for genuine psychotic / schizo types by giving them stories that they can use to explain any random thought they happen to have. But. Cold facts: The kind of thing Tilly is going on about did happen, is historic record (undisputed), and happened from within the government and was enabled by compartmentalization policies.

They got so blatantly caught killing one guy ("Olson") that there was even a freakin' act of congress to pay the family and help the cover-up of the larger story.


[ Parent ]
The simplest explanation (none / 1) (#132)
by maniac1860 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 12:43:51 PM EST

Is that you're dehydrated when you go to sleep and extremely sleep deprived as a result.

Probally true, but... (none / 0) (#133)
by k31 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 01:15:14 PM EST

Although the simpliest explaination sounds more plausible to me, why would he be dehydrated?

That might sound like a weird question, but "The Signs" and their use of water to kill aliens is based on something that's been known since ancient times: water can be used to strength "metaphysical" actions, esp. defensive ones against aggressors.

Someone might have sent a Shadow to feed on his emotional energy, or something... which is impossible if he's sealed his energy within himself and wrapped himself in a protective sheild; said sheilds are basically water-powered (D and T, H isotopes).

Of course, I'm just mixing sci-fi with reality, but the truth is usually stanger than fiction,
and only the paranoid survive.

On a more plausible note, perhaps socio-economic and emotional problems inhibit the poster-z normal physicological function; being from the middle east in an era when "middle eastern == bin landen's terrorist agent" in the minds of the bitter masses must be really stressful.

Your dollar is you only Word, the wrath of it your only fear. He who has an EAR to hear....
[ Parent ]

Nothing so elaborate... (none / 1) (#134)
by maniac1860 on Sat Apr 12, 2008 at 01:24:46 PM EST

simply that the symptoms he describes experiencing when sleeping are all things associated with dehydration. This becomes particularly bad when you change your sleep habits as a result (e.g. sleeping with your head on the desk).

[ Parent ]
"I was here" Mind-Games (none / 1) (#137)
by tilly on Sun Apr 13, 2008 at 03:17:57 PM EST

I tell the person I am living the house with, "Let's keep the fan in the window going to keep the air circulating." After having given her a ride home, I come back to find the fan turned off.

A day after having a light fixture worked on in the bedroom, I see a small hole in the ceiling near where the work was done. (No, the electrician did not do any drilling!) I straighten out a wire hanger and stick it into the hole to see how far up it goes. (It goes all the way to the attic which in itself is not so important because I dont have an airtight separation between the room and the attic to begin with.) On the third day, I find the hanger wire bent into a neat zig-zag pattern.

On a day after leaving a large number of shoes strewn around the foyer floor, I find the front panels of all my four shoe bins rolled open. (An attempt at humor? "Keep your shoes in the shoe bins!")

Any one of these in isolation, one can just shrug off but, through certain stretches of time, I find something weird happening just about every day.

Lights left off I find turned on and vice versa. Locks left locked I find unlocked (and sometimes vice versa).

Double deadlocks on outer doors, bars accross doors, combination lockpads, Zone-Alarm alarm all defeated ...

lol (none / 1) (#139)
by Linux or FreeBSD on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 04:38:48 AM EST

if they're capable of doing all this impossible shit, why are they so sloppy and obvious?

[ Parent ]
Why don't you take some friggin' pictures? (none / 0) (#140)
by Peaker on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:38:55 PM EST

Instead of talking about a gazillion subjective memories that you have, why don't you bring ONE SINGLE SHRED of objective evidence?

Take some pictures? Film some videos?

[ Parent ]

Totally agree... (none / 1) (#142)
by ckm on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 12:57:22 PM EST

... chances are, stress is causing you to forget things (happens to me occasionally).

Also, I once came home to find a lot of things different than I left them (lights off, computer off, stereo on a different station, washing machine not running, etc.) and it wasn't until I saw a flashing 12:00 on the coffee machine that I realized the power must have gone out while I was gone.  Which was a bit strange since I'd only left for a 1/2 hour or so.


[ Parent ]

It's obviously ghosts (none / 0) (#178)
by paddypatel on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:09:36 AM EST

Your house is haunted. Move.

There's nothing worse than a group of ignorant people with a legitimate grievance
[ Parent ]

Muslims arent a race (3.00 / 2) (#145)
by FEKLAAR on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 09:32:22 PM EST

[ Parent ]
still taking seriously, here (2.00 / 2) (#146)
by tomlord on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 10:21:25 PM EST

There's a huge amount of literate f-ing around on this site. So, if you are going to come out with "the spooks on their ass, please help" it's a tough audience, if you are serious (and a perfect one if you are just joshing around).

One of the downsides of this site is the casual ways it slags people that might have genuine "organic" problems. That's obnoxious. One of the side effects is that, yes, a genuine, threatened person is hard to pick out and could find a better venue. The claims outlined are, I am certain, unlikely but very, very, very far from implausible.

The whole thread (the responses at least, passing no judgment on the top) is a bit of "two girls and cup," at best.

It's not only idiotic (the responses) but it is naive and irresponsible.

Shame, indeed. The technologically and socially astute should know better, or else get out.


[ Parent ]
polarization of the people (2.33 / 3) (#154)
by tomlord on Tue Apr 15, 2008 at 07:26:46 PM EST

polarization of the people being the most important thing at hand, of course.

[ Parent ]
If you think about it for a second... (none / 0) (#174)
by werner on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:23:58 PM EST

...these doubting Thomases are actually the ones acting in the most ethnicity-agnostic manner.

Be honest: if the OP were a white, pure-bred USian, you'd almost certainly be posting exactly the same 'see a doctor' stuff.

Your post is the one that's pre-occupied with race.

[ Parent ]

Das Leben der Anderen (2.00 / 2) (#144)
by tilly on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 09:29:20 PM EST

This comment is meant to be only tangentially related to the story:

We learned much about the inner workings of the East German Communist Society after the Wall came down and the documents of the East German intelligence became public.

The superb movie "The Lives of Others", based on this knowledge, showed just what it was like to live in a modern, industrialized unfree society.

I read an interview with a dissident targeted by the East German Intelligence. In addition to more serious skulduggery, they would have teams of agents follow the target and play pranks on them such as deflating the tires of their baby strollers. The woman was saying it felt silly to complain about this. Of course, this was the intended effect; she would be taken less seriously claiming that her daughter lost her job at the university because of her dissident activities if she also had been heard saying "Stasi let the air out of my tires!"

precisely (2.00 / 3) (#147)
by tomlord on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 10:27:14 PM EST

That tired old horse "MKULTRA" and friends -- not so very damn long ago and not obviously ended -- shows that such crap actually happened for real, to real people, destroying lives and resulting in death right here in the US. The record agrees. Congress agrees. Gerald Ford agreed. SCOTUS agrees. It is undisputed that, for example, 30 years ago there were people talking exactly like this guy AND THEY WERE TELLING THE ACCURATE AND CORRECT TRUTH.


[ Parent ]
No. (none / 0) (#171)
by DavidTC on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:46:18 PM EST

Actually, no. Everyone in MK-ULTRA knew they were taking some sort of drugs or knew they were the subject of some sort of medical experiment.

Of course, it wasn't anywhere near the standard of 'informed consent' and some of them were literally blackmailed into it (See 'Operation Midnight Climax'), and many others thought they were taking fairly harmless things instead of the almost completely untested drugs, but there weren't any people wandering around completely unknowing being tested in their own houses. It happened in government testing labs where the subjects could be observed and questioned.

It's also worth noting that LSD, although the most famous, was almost immediately discarded, because it didn't do anything that was slightly useful.

-David T. C.
Yes, my email address is real.
[ Parent ]

Tilly UID 37885 (none / 1) (#157)
by ShiftyStoner on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 10:00:44 AM EST

I expressed on Internet forums - mostly on this site - my opposition to the Iraq war in strong language and talked about George W. Bush in unflattering terms which are commonly heard now but were not so commonly heard then.

( @ )'( @ ) The broad masses of a population are more amenable to the appeal of rhetoric than to any other force. - Adolf Hitler

. . . dude. (none / 1) (#158)
by Vainamoinen on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 10:38:12 AM EST


Two possibilities (none / 1) (#159)
by stuaart on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 11:02:34 AM EST

Since you appear to be totally unwilling to respond to any suggestions that don't fit with your existing theories, i.e., that your paranoid conspiracy gas story is true, there are only two possible results:

  1. You are a troll;

  2. You are genuinely ill mentally and/or physically and need to seek professional help.

In case (1), I applaud the well-craftedness of your posting and the response it has generated, and the level of uncertainty over which way to respond (i.e., that you're ill, or you're just a troll). Well done!

In case (2), please take some advice. I know that this is hard because essentially people here are suggesting that your theories are incorrect, but you must at least attempt to consider the possibility that you are wrong.

Where's Crawfish when you need him eh?

Linkwhore: [Hidden stories.] Baldrtainment: Corporate concubines and Baldrson: An Introspective

Or 3. (3.00 / 2) (#161)
by Joe Sixpack on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 01:11:21 PM EST

stuaart is working with them!

[ Parent ]

Shhh! (none / 0) (#163)
by stuaart on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 12:56:28 PM EST

Linkwhore: [Hidden stories.] Baldrtainment: Corporate concubines and Baldrson: An Introspective

[ Parent ]
three options (2.00 / 2) (#160)
by CodeWright on Wed Apr 16, 2008 at 05:18:05 PM EST

1. buy a gas chromatograph and test your atmosphere

2. light candles in your home (most knockout gasses are flammable)

3. admit you're schizophrenic and need help -- please seek your local community mental health

A: Because it destroys the flow of conversation.
Q: Why is top posting dumb? --clover_kicker

Allergies (2.66 / 3) (#162)
by Rahyl on Thu Apr 17, 2008 at 01:40:44 PM EST

Almost every symptom you've described is a classic symptom of seasonal and/or mold allergies.  It isn't uncommon for such allergies to develop as one gets older.  As far as the coldness on the face, you may want to see a cardiologist.  It's happening as you lay down and get comfortable.  Normally, one's body temperature will drop when you lay down and get comfortable.  Considering you lose the majority of body heat through the head, laying down will accelerate this heat loss.  If it's extremely pronounced, you may have a circulation problem that a doctor should know about.

finding myself forced to breathe fast, numbness on the extremities, for long periods afterwards, feeling my lungs constantly with discomfort on each breath and chest pain that sometimes take over entire one half of my chest.

Another reason to see a cardiologist and/or other health care specialist.  This could be asthma or another example of an extreme allergic reaction, possibly to mold.  It could also be a blood clot but assuming you're still alive, it's not as likely.

The sponge with powder on it, likely pollen and/or mold.  Bringing that right up to your nose was asking for trouble, especially considering the time of year.  The whiteness on the fingers could be your own immune system at work trying to expunge whatever material it was.

There are so many causes for ringing in the ears that it's hardly worth going into.

All in all, it's extremely unlikely that anyone with such expertise would spend that kind of time and effort to 'drive you away', especially since doing so would have no affect on your ability to post your opinions.  All of your symptoms can be explained by high concentrations of allergens and possible developing health problems.  Anxiety alone could also cause some of them as well.

I'm not going to call you paranoid or crazy, not yet.  Go ahead and approach the allergy angle and have a specialist come to your place and test the air for mold spores and pollen.  Air that's thick with these materials is difficult to breath even for someone without allergies which would explain how nice it feels to open the windows.

As someone who works in the medical profession (none / 1) (#164)
by SpaceMonkeyGrif on Fri Apr 18, 2008 at 01:33:18 PM EST

Sounds like you may have sleep apnea.

Google it.  

Sleep deprivation and lack of REM sleep does wild things to you.

I speak from experience.

Hi (none / 0) (#165)
by bact3rio on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:04:00 PM EST

Hi, I think you might be experiencing a psychotic episode. This affects your mind and the experiences you have are exactly the same as they would be if they were real.

If you have a psychotic episode there are good treatments nowadays for this. Don't waste your time asking for advice online, go and see a psychiatrist or your family doctor and tell them what is happening to you.

Hope everything goes well.

The pschosis thing (2.33 / 3) (#166)
by tomlord on Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:38:12 AM EST

A good clue there is when everything seems personally significant. I've only experienced a thoroughly artificially induced version of it (damned psychoto-memetics, as they used to be called, back in the day) and I've met (and sometimes "talked down") a few folks in the throws of the organic and all-too-real variety but I got enough of a taste to get some sense of the full blown form.

That overplayed song on the radio, in various covers -- "Crazy" -- has a line that hits the mark: "even your emotions have echoes". It's like you have some brain circuit that flags "meaningful" without assigning any particular actual meaning and psychosis is when that circuit just pins its needle at 10. My god, a leaf just fell next to me -- why that proves.... whatever.

Still, the top post does give a half decent description of what an MKULTRA-type subject looks like when trying to describe what's happened to them. It's no joke that you shouldn't fail to take the seemingly paranoid interpretations as potentially spot on, even if that's a rare possibility. Sadly.


[ Parent ]
Hey Tilly (none / 0) (#167)
by meridian on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:38:18 PM EST

They get past your alarm system? That sucks. I've considered putting one in but I figured it would be no point anyways.

Just to say after I made my posts I had issues for the next few nights and was unable to sleep with voices occuring. Don't know if they are reminding me they are still watching or its was  my own paranoia. Either way its gone after a few days.

About the roof... (none / 0) (#168)
by meridian on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:46:21 PM EST

I had holes in my roof when it first happened but i never tried poking anythingthrough them as I thought they looked like they stoped fairly soon into the ceiling. They were just above my bed and I got very very itchy every night in bed such that I was sure someone was pouring something on me. I ended up atching the holes in the cieling and getting a huge bottle of lice killer even though I never found any lice.

Seemed to be more itchy than normal in bed the last week but I haven't changed my sheets in a few weeks either :)

[ Parent ]

Doctor (none / 1) (#172)
by deadplant on Sat May 03, 2008 at 09:15:45 PM EST

I am struck by a lack of any mention of visits to a physician.

Have you described your symptoms to your doctor?
This would seem to me to be a necessary first step.

Ringing In Your Ears (none / 0) (#177)
by DavidLJ on Mon May 19, 2008 at 09:00:19 AM EST

Ringing in your ears is a perfectly normal result of stress or worry.

Don't worry about it: that's redundundant. :-)

The heavy breathing in bed in the morning is also a common thing. Culturally it's called being "hag-ridden," because people used to think it was a witch sitting on their chest when they woke up in the morning. Again, it's a simple stress reaction.

The solution is all the obvious things. Eat more green vegetables; relax with a beer; identify obvious problems in your immediate controllable life, and solve them; take a long walk three times a week; eat more green vegetables; relax with another beer.

No problem, buddy: you're in fine shape.

"Does 'Sleep Gas' exist?" or "Ethnic Cleansing in the US" | 178 comments (162 topical, 16 editorial, 1 hidden)
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