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How to cure your asthma or hayfever using hookworm - a practical guide

By luckbeaweirdo in Science
Mon May 01, 2006 at 06:13:48 PM EST
Tags: Science (all tags)
Science

This is my personal account of curing my asthma and hayfever by deliberately infesting myself with the intestinal parasite hookworm.

It isn't for the faint hearted and for some should not be read while eating.

It involves a great deal of research, a trip to Cameroon and a lot of barefoot walking in open air latrines in west Africa.

If you have asthma, or know someone who has asthma (or for that matter Crohn's disease, IBD or colitis) and are suffering badly you owe it to yourself to consider this approach. Because although it sounds strange and is repellant it is founded on sound science and it has one other virtue.

It worked.


I have had severe allergies all of my life. As a child I had hay fever so bad that my eyes would swell shut and mucus would stream from my nose. I would lie in a darkened room with a cold damp flannel over my face to quell the itching, almost inebriate from antihistamines. Spring was pure misery.

Later I smoked cigarettes for seven years when I was a teenager and into my early twenties. I have been told that these two things are the prime markers for the development of adult onset asthma. That is exactly what I started to get when I reached my early thirties.

As my asthma got worse I became increasingly reliant on inhalers, pills and antihistamines as well as upon the oral steroid prednisone to stay out of hospital. I tried all the drugs and therapies available. As it was by the time I was in my late 30s I was a frequent visitor to the emergency room. As anyone who has experienced a severe asthma attack can tell you they are terrifying.

My use of prednisone increased, and as you may know the side affects of prednisone are quite horrible, particularly with long-term use. I started to suffer from some of these side affects, particularly obesity, and despite all this these drugs were only marginally effective in controlling my asthma.

Soon I was denied health insurance and so now I had the added burden of paying for all my medical care.

On a trip in the summer of 2004 to visit relatives in England I learned of a BBC documentary about the connection between a variety of intestinal parasites and various autoimmune diseases. Visiting the BBC web site (go here to view the BBC article or go here to see the many articles on the same subject indexed and available through google) I learned that not only did infestation with hookworm cure both hay fever and asthma but also Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD), Crohn's Disease and Colitis.

Some Links:

Wellcome Study into Asthma and Hookworm
ABC Science Online

- Asthma and Hookworm

Research at Nottingham - Asthma and Hookworm

Article about link between Asthma and Hookworm

New Scientist Article about Asthma and Hookworm

British Medical Journal on IBD & Crohn's treatment with hookworm

Crohn's & Ulcerative Coliltis research
Inflammatory Bowel Disease

Intrigued I did more research and located some peer reviewed scientific papers published in the Lancet and the New England Journal of Medicine that demonstrated this link (membership is required to view these articles). I roped in some friends with graduate degrees in hard sciences and asked their opinions. Once one sifted their replies to remove the institutional bias the consensus was that there seemed to be something there.

A google search regarding the University of Nottingham study conducted in Ethiopia, as well as recently undertaken study at Nottingham financed by Wellcome Laboratories indicates that hookworm does indeed cure asthma.

Obviously for the drug company that brings a new asthma therapy to market based on this research there is the potential for billions in revenue. Unfortunately even if they are successful in identifying the mystery compound the hookworm secrete it will take around ten years to bring it to market, assuming they are successful in proving efficacy and safety.

The Decision to Infest Myself With Hookworm

Based upon what I read, and what I learned about the hookworm I decided that I was going to try and infest myself with hookworm in an attempt to cure my asthma. I was not willing to wait ten or more years for the drug companies to bring a drug to market. It was obvious to me that hookworm, for a healthy adult with a good diet, are quite benign. This account details my experiences, how I went about it, and the things I have done since infestation to calibrate my level of infestation so that in the end I was able to cure my asthma and hay fever with hookworm. These same techniques are of course applicable to any hookworm infestation, whether you want to control asthma, hay fever, colitis, Crohn's disease or Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD).

All about the worm

Two species of hookworm commonly infest humans, Ancylostoma duodenale and Necator americanus. These species are found throughout the tropics. The distribution of each species significantly overlaps that of the other.

Hookworms are estimated to infect up to 1.3 billion people around the world depending on whose statistics you read. Most people who are infected are asymptomatic (without symptoms). Adult hookworms are very small, less than half an inch long and about half a millimeter wide. The most significant risk of hookworm infection is anemia secondary to loss of iron (and protein) into the gut but this only occurs in individuals with extremely high infestation levels or in those who are malnourished or immuno-compromised. Or all of the above.

A duodenale and N americanus are small (male: 8-11 mm, female: 10-13 mm), off-white worms. The sexes cannot be distinguished by the naked eye. Hookworm larvae (themselves invisible to the naked eye) emerge from embryos passed in stool within 24 hours and molt once to an infective filariform larval stage in another 24 hours. After molting, larvae are able to penetrate intact skin. The larvae can remain viable for up to two weeks on the ground.

Walking barefoot in soil contaminated with feces (the source of hookworm eggs/larvae) is the most common method of exposure. The other is inadvertent ingestion of contaminated feces. Note that the hookworm cannot proliferate in your gut, you can only increase your infestation level by coming into skin contact with larvae or ingesting contaminated feces. After skin penetration, the venous circulation carries larvae to the pulmonary bed, where they lodge in pulmonary capillaries. Within 3-5 days, the larvae break through into alveoli and travel up the ciliary escalator from the lungs into the bronchi, the trachea, and the pharynx. This often causes a violent cough such as I experienced. It woke me up, continued for about two hours and was so violent at its peak that I vomited into my mouth. Upon reaching the pharynx, larvae are swallowed and gain access to the GI tract. Once in the GI tract, worms attach to the wall of the lower intestine and begin to feed on the blood of the host. They are intestinal leeches.

Eggs begin to appear in the stool approximately 4-6 weeks after initial infection (assay of stool is the primary means of diagnosis). The lifespan of the worm is up to 1 year for A duodenale and up to 5 years for N americanus. The female produces 10,000-25,000 eggs per day during this time. Per day baby! What a machine. I have also read that the larvae can travel up through up to six feet of soil to reach the surface of the ground if stool is buried. One has to appreciate the remarkable durability of these creatures.

Hookworm infection is rare in the US and western Europe. Simply having toilets and sewers does for them because without feces contaminated soil they are out of business. The prevalence of infection is as high as 80% in lesser-developed countries with moist tropical climates (and lacking toilets) but is only 10-20% in areas with drier climates. Hookworm infection rarely is fatal (mostly in very heavily infected and malnourished children) but anemia can be significant in the heavily infected.

But, hookworm cannot proliferate in your intestine, the only way to increase the worm load is to come into skin contact with stage one larvae.

Hookworm can be cured with a two-day course of very cheap oral medication that is widely available.

How it works

So, how does hookworm cure these autoimmune diseases? I don't think anyone has worked that out precisely yet but the working theory, called the Clean Hypothesis goes something like this: Asthma and most autoimmune diseases are diseases of the west, and they are becoming much more common, fast.

Ironically, because we have been so successful in eliminating disease and parasites in Western Europe and North America our immune systems, which evolved in very dirty environments under constant assault from a multitude of diseases and parasites, goes awry absent these external modulators, and attack our own tissues.

Hookworm, as a foreign protein in contact with our tissues, has to suppress or modulate our immune response or it will be attacked and destroyed by our immune system. Think of that time you got a piece of hamburger stuck in a gum and did not have access to dental floss for the better part of a day. Remember the inflammation?

So, hookworm and these other parasites are down-modulating some aspect of our immune system, the result is no asthma, hayfever and Inflammatory Bowel Disease in individuals with sufficient numbers of hookworm. In effect, hookworm infestation suppress hay fever, asthma, colitis, Crohn's disease and Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD).

Really it isn't a cure since the effect only lasts as long as the infestation. Eliminate the worms and your asthma or Inflammatory Bowel Disease will return.

How I Obtained Hookworm and Cured my Asthma

Having decided that I was going to infest myself with hookworm I set about using internet resources to locate a supplier of hookworm embryos or larvae. The problem is that every government bureaucracy concerned with such things has been devoted to the elimination of hookworm since the 1920s. In addition it is a controlled organism (in Canada at least). None of the biological supply companies I was able to locate and contact carried live specimens of human hookworms, their larvae or embryos. The best I was able to locate were slides of dead examples.

Having hit a dead end I tried to contact the health departments in the southern states of the US, for Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, etc, where hookworm used to be prevalent. The problem I ran into here is that hookworm is now very rare in the US and is not a reportable disease. So there is no requirement that health authorities track incidences of the disease. It undoubtedly exists I was told, but no one was able to tell me where. It is unlikely to be widespread anyway, just the introduction of toilets is likely to eliminate this parasite because it puts an end to the possibility that anyone might walk in contaminated soil. Puts the tropics in perspective.

I next contacted my doctor to ask his help. He turned me down after some consideration. The reason was that his malpractice insurance would have been revoked if he had helped me get infested. No insurance, no practice.

My requests to all my friends working as researchers, or the few graduate students I know were also denied. This was too far outside the then current orthodoxy for them to consider. WAY too far...

My attempts to enroll in the studies at Nottingham and Iowa were also fruitless.

At this point I came to the conclusion that short of bribing a research assistant or stealing samples from a lab I would have to go to the tropics and walk around barefoot in human excrement. Not an attractive proposition, but then neither is not being able to breathe, and the breathing thing was going to last the rest of my life.

But where to go to find these hookworm?

Intensive searches of the WHO website turned up just one map showing hookworm distribution in only one country: Cameroon.

I read extensively on Cameroon. By any measure it is one of the poorest places on the planet, although ironically relatively prosperous compared to most of its immediate neighbors. It is at best in the bottom quartile, but mostly in the bottom decile, for almost every measure of human welfare and economic well being that the UN and WHO measures.

Life expectancy is 47 years and declining, HIV/AIDs is approaching 20% which (given that half the population is under fifteen and presumably much less likely to be infected) means about about a third of the adult population has HIV). Hey baby!

The average annual wage is less than $700, it is at the epicenter for malaria and is afflicted with a legion of horrific diseases.

I found this ...off-putting... But I resolved to go. I spent almost a thousand dollars on vaccinations (although for the worst and most lethal diseases there are no preventive measures you can take, except to avoid the vectors of the disease, such as mosquitos for malaria and filharzia). For more information on the diseases prevalent in Cameroon you can start here. The highlights are malaria, dengue fever, river blindness, sleeping sickness, filharzia/elephantiasis, bilharzia (nasty!), rift valley fever, two varieties of hepatitis, cholera, typhoid and yellow fever. Filharzia is my least favorite, a mosquito born nematode (worm) that takes up residence in your lymphatic system and that if left untreated the worms proliferate and so clog your lymph system that your extremities swell with undrained lymph to produce elephantiasis. It is in incurable, but can be managed with treatment. I don't think I got it but I won't know until 2007.

Malaria and Dengue both have a mortality rate approaching 5%. Fortunately it appears that the only disease I caught was hookworm.

Still, I booked a ticket with Air France (flying with Air France was not a happy experience for me on this trip) from London to Paris, on to Douala and finally to the capital, Yaoundé. This was ridiculously expensive but there are effectively no choices for getting there. So I paid. First I had to get to London, I recommend Virgin Atlantic if you are flying from San Francisco or New York to London.

Being in the US I had to get my visa for Cameroon from the embassy in Washington DC. They are remarkably concerned with making sure visitors are going to leave their country and require far more documentation than the Americans ever did of me when I was an alien. Because time was short and because I live in California I used a visa facilitation service called Travisa to handle this for me, they got me the visa very promptly and for a reasonable fee. You can find their website here.

My Experiences in Cameroon in Brief

Cameroon is the third world, and the reality of statistics like those regarding incomes approaching a dollar a day are given a palpable reality as soon as you leave the airplane.

Africa is a constant assault on western sensibilities, from the open sewers or sewage running down the street, public urination, and lepers to the utter absence of law enforcement, EMT services, traffic lights and the insane and very dangerous driving habits of the locals. The only guidebook for Cameroon lists auto accidents as a leading danger for visitors. They aren't kidding. Having said that I loved it, but it probably isn't for most people.

Cameroon has no tourism infrastructure, its people being so poor (your pocket change represents two or three months wages) and the insane corruption make for a very challenging environment for a western traveler, particularly a conspicuous white one. You are a walking pile of cash, a visitor form another, much wealthier, planet. One feels very vulnerable and exposed. It can be very wearing and the danger of being robbed is constant.

This is a country where there is zero in the way of a safety net. If you are injured or beaten or robbed you are on your own. Dying, ignored in the street, is surely possible. Fortunately I met some very generous Cameroonians on the plane who invited me to stay with them. As they lived exactly where I wanted to go I headed for their place as soon as I woke up on my first day in Yaoundé, the capital. They had disembarked in Douala, the economic capital.

Traveling to the west of the country meant taking a bus along the main road between the capital and the economic capital, Yaoundé and Douala. The road was a two lane highway in good condition about equivalent to an  A road in the UK or a county road in the USA. From there it was another half day to Limbe, the regional capital of one of two Anglophone provinces in the West.

Our hosts were the most amazingly generous and kind people one can imagine. They  freely shared their house, knowledge and food, and showed us around. They were absolutely wonderful, as were most of the people I met in Cameroon. For instance they put a car and driver at my disposal, which proved invaluable in reaching the poorer and more remote areas where hookworm is prevalent. Without their help I am sure I would not have been successful. Thank you Richard and Sophie.

With the driver's help (I told everyone of my quest) I was able to visit a variety of villages and with practice learned to identify where the locals would defecate.

Almost no one owns a car, most cars are taxis, so everyone walks to work. Most workers are farmers or work in some kind of agriculture, and of course almost no one has plumbing never mind toilets, so when they leave the main road in the morning it is often time to relieve themselves.

So I looked for busy spurs off the main roads near population centers, villages. Sure enough, within about 50 meters of the main road there would be a variety of shared latrines. Meaning a clearing in the brush. I was able to avoid being stung or bitten by any of the worst types of insects, centipedes and reptiles while I was there, although the ants are enormous, aggressive and extremely painful. Luckily for me in the tropics excrement decays rapidly away to nothing, within 48 hours. Which is exactly the interval required for the hookworm embryos to become viable larvae. I have to admit that I stepped in a lot of excrement before I observed that. :-((

I became infested almost immediately, it must have been either the first or second day I spent walking barefoot through the latrines. When one thinks of it this was an enormous piece of luck. With an infection rate of below 20% even in this the most infected province of Cameroon, and the fact that infections are likely to be localized, and that a tiny fraction of one percent of the land is given over to contaminated soil, actually stepping in the right spot is quite a feat (no pun intended). Of course, I could not be sure without the tests almost two months later. So, I persisted with it for the remainder of my two-week stay. Having come that far I was not going to let my revulsion prevent my returning with hookworm in my body.

Seeing me the locals would often get fairly aggressive, wondering what the hell a white guy was doing walking around barefoot in their toilets. Still, I did get to meet a lot of interesting people. Unfortunately they were usually very intimidating, at least until they had calmed down. An angry man with a machete when you are standing isolated and alone in such an alien place is trying, particularly when you are compelled by circumstance to argue with him.

Five days after my first day walking barefoot I woke up at about 2 am coughing. For the next 2 hours or so I coughed, peaking in frequency and intensity about half an hour after I woke up. It built in intensity to the point that I vomited. It was a cough unlike any I have had. It was persistent and entirely unproductive (zero phlegm), and violent.

Six weeks after my return I tested positive for hookworm, but I still had asthma, so using the following techniques I increased my infestation level until my asthma and hay fever were cured.

How I Manage My Hookworm Infestation

While I do not know precisely how many hookworm I have, I do know when I don't have asthma (I imagine the same would be true for Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD), colitis, Crohn's, etc.). This unknown number of hookworm, n, is the number required to cure my asthma and hayfever (or Inflammatory Bowel Disease). There is another unknown number of hookworm, z, at which I would start to suffer from anemia. Obviously I want to keep the number at n or greater than n, but less than z.

Knowing when I don't have asthma is easy. And since hookworm cannot reproduce entirely in my intestines there is no danger of them proliferating and multiplying to the point where I develop anemia. Once I achieve a certain level of infestation coming into skin contact with the infections larvae that level of infection will only decline over time, unless I come into skin contact with more infections larvae. In order for me to increase my load of hookworm I have to deliberately infest myself with the larvae.

There are various numbers given for the life expectancy of each type of hookworm. The kind I have, Ancylostoma, is given a life expectancy of as little as one year by some authorities (and five years for N. Americanus). For me the greatest danger is that somehow my hookworm might all die (I would rather only go back to Cameroon when I can keep my shoes on, thank you), so I have adopted a three-month reinfection cycle to avoid this. That is once every three months I infest myself as described below.

To ensure that my infestation level is not too high and that I do not become anemic I simply get tested for anemia after each additional quarterly infestation and watch closely for the symptoms. I take iron supplements and make sure I eat well. No problems so far.

How I reinfest myself

I use a method I derived from some researchers in Australia, they used this method to obtain hookworm larvae for skin infestation so that their subjects could avoid coming into direct contact with feces contaminated soil. Simply, I have created a temperature and humidity controlled growing environment in which I mix my hookworm embryo containing feces with a moisture-bearing medium. After a few days I harvest the larvae using a bilayered material, peeling off the top layer that has not been in contact with the feces and applying this to my skin.

This method relies on the hookworm's instinct to climb and burrow to the top of whatever medium or material they are in so as to wait for a bare foot to land on them. Since they are capable by one account of penetrating up to six feet of soil penetrating the material does not represent a problem for them.

Having applied the top layer of this material to my flesh for an hour I invariably get the rash and cough associated with hookworm infestation at the right times. Stool tests confirm that I increase my infestation level when I do this.

That is pretty much it for me, today. If you want to get in touch or know someone who might you can email me at info@asthmahookworm.com.

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Poll
I have asthma, and I would...
o Never try this, its nuts 48%
o Consider it, if I didn't have to step in... shit. 27%
o Try it in a heartbeat, my athma/IBD/Colitis/Crohn's sucks ass 24%

Votes: 29
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o Google
o here to view the BBC article
o here
o Wellcome Study into Asthma and Hookworm
o ABC Science Online - Asthma and Hookworm
o Research at Nottingham - Asthma and Hookworm
o Article about link between Asthma and Hookworm
o New Scientist Article about Asthma and Hookworm
o British Medical Journal on IBD & Crohn's treatment with hookworm
o Crohn's & Ulcerative Coliltis research
o Inflammato ry Bowel Disease
o here
o here [2]
o Also by luckbeaweirdo


Display: Sort:
How to cure your asthma or hayfever using hookworm - a practical guide | 320 comments (275 topical, 45 editorial, 0 hidden)
i had an idea a long time ago (2.58 / 12) (#3)
by circletimessquare on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 10:36:46 AM EST

i never followed up on it, maybe i should have:

in the rich west, we have fat lard asses, desperate to lose weight and unable to do so because, well, they are spoiled fithly rich (compared to the world at large). they try all sorts of fad diets, drugs, surgery, etc.

this is quite bizarre. the history of mankind, hell, the entire history of life on planet earth, is all about a desperate scramble for food. there are a million things that conspire against your average creature on a daily basis to ensure that it doesn't get any food in it stomach. so there HAS to be an easy way to introduce one of those millions of food-limiting factors into the rich fat lard ass westerner's life that makes them get less food. you should be able to find one factor that is completely effortless and reversible (in line with the lazy lard ass low physical exertion western lifestyle)

and in fact, there is such a factor. so my idea would be a fancy new weight loss company based around that factor. the experience for the client would be:

  1. you come in, we give you one glass of water, that's it.
  2. you start losing weight.
  3. then, when you reach your desired weight, you come back in for one more glass of water, that's it.
  4. you stop losing weight.
you're done. repeat as necessary if you gain weight again. no muss. no fuss. $595.00 please. the magic?

the first glass contains worm eggs. the second glass contains a worm-killing drug

i of course ignored the idea as pie-in-the-sky nonsense. but you're making me think i should engender a business plan. you load up your intestine with hungry worms, absorbing all of your nutrients, reducing your absorption abilities, and you get thin. well there is the issue of infectiousness. hmmm. irradiated sterile worms?


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

The trouble is, (3.00 / 5) (#42)
by Kasreyn on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 06:15:42 PM EST

it does nothing to help the lardass deal with their overeating habit. So when they take the worm-killing drug, they'll immediately begin to swell up again, because they'll still have their overeater instincts. In fact, it'll be worse, since while the worms are in them, they'll *have* to overeat just to maintain body weight. That will change overeating from a comfort reaction to a survival behavior, making it all the harder to kick.

Your plan just might work, but I think anyone who tries it is going to need to stay wormy for life.


"Extenuating circumstance to be mentioned on Judgement Day:
We never asked to be born in the first place."

R.I.P. Kurt. You will be missed.
[ Parent ]
EXACTLY (3.00 / 8) (#53)
by circletimessquare on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 06:46:43 PM EST

  1. stick worm in fat person
  2. ????
  3. profit!
where ????=over and over because they need to go back on the "diet" after killing the worms


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
Been done. (3.00 / 5) (#86)
by V on Mon May 01, 2006 at 12:54:46 PM EST

A quack was busted in Mexico for selling a weight loss treatment based on intestinal parasites.

V.
---
What my fans are saying:
"That, and the fact that V is a total, utter scumbag." VZAMaZ.
"well look up little troll" cts.
"I think you're a worthless little cuntmonkey but you made me lol, so I sigged you." re
"goodness gracious you're an idiot" mariahkillschickens
[ Parent ]

really?! (3.00 / 3) (#116)
by circletimessquare on Mon May 01, 2006 at 09:28:35 PM EST

awesome

his mistake was not in disclosing his method


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

I vaguely remember hearing such a story. (2.75 / 4) (#136)
by mrgomel on Tue May 02, 2006 at 10:03:24 AM EST

So it was tried.

[ Parent ]
hasn't been tried (3.00 / 3) (#185)
by circletimessquare on Wed May 03, 2006 at 03:35:10 AM EST

where the method is honestly disclosed

still room for trial that way ;-)


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Wouldn't work... (3.00 / 2) (#227)
by Insoc on Thu May 04, 2006 at 01:00:09 PM EST

helminths need an intermediate host to become a larval form that will grow into an adult inside a human. So, your water glass will have to contain swimmers. I'd recommend L3 Ascaris lumbricoides.

[ Parent ]
Very interesting... (2.33 / 3) (#6)
by bushmanburn on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 11:28:43 AM EST

good supporting links...can you post more links? I read through the ones you had and am not sure who did the original research.

Question about editorial process (2.66 / 3) (#9)
by luckbeaweirdo on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 12:20:36 PM EST

Hi, I gather from your posts and points system that an article must reach some threshold of points to get published.

Nullo does not like it although he likes the story (?) but does not say why he doesn't like it. I don't expect to persuade him to change his mind, but it would be nice to know why he/she isn't into it.

It looks like I am one point to the good, with a request for more links. So what is the standard I have to meet for publication?

I can add those links, I was also thinking of adding a section expressing in laymans terms the mechanism by which it is thought hoowkworm modulate our immune response.

Curious to learn more (and startled by the speed of the editorial response).

[ Parent ]

people who don't post comments/diaries (3.00 / 4) (#12)
by Tex two point oh on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 12:49:58 PM EST

before submitting a story are called "nullos" and typically their stories get shot down on that basis alone.

this article seems pretty good and doesn't look like a pure advertising piece to me. if you had any posting history here there is no doubt it would get voted to front page by a very wide margin as long as it wasn't published anywhere else first.

there are a few minor typos/grammar problems that should be cleaned up and that would lose a few fp votes as well.


[ Parent ]

thanks (none / 1) (#13)
by luckbeaweirdo on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 12:58:41 PM EST

I will work on it to clean it up tonight, I am actually working today.

thanks for the kind words.

[ Parent ]

no prob (3.00 / 9) (#14)
by Tex two point oh on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 01:00:08 PM EST

i am one of the nicest guys on k5

[ Parent ]
and easily the most modest $ (3.00 / 2) (#113)
by emmons on Mon May 01, 2006 at 07:58:22 PM EST



---
In the beginning the universe was created. This has made a lot of people angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams

[ Parent ]
more links (2.50 / 2) (#18)
by luckbeaweirdo on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 01:58:12 PM EST

I am going to work on this tonight and I will try and work on the links aspect then as well. If not then tomorrow.

thanks.

[ Parent ]

+1 FP from me when it comes to voting. (2.50 / 2) (#20)
by shm on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 02:28:49 PM EST

I read about this theory when it came out but I never imagined anyone would be desperate enough to do this to themselves in such uncontrolled circumstances.


Sort of like cancer and tumor treatments (2.75 / 4) (#27)
by Orion Blastar Again on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 03:45:31 PM EST

using the herpies or rabies virus to infect the patient with that the virus attacks the tumor or cancer cells and shrinks them down so they can be surgically removed.

Learn how to be a liberal.
I can't believe it's not Liberalism!
"Thanks for the pointers on using the internet. You're links to uncylopedia have turned my life around." -zenador

Link? $ (none / 0) (#44)
by debacle on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 06:28:42 PM EST



It tastes sweet.
[ Parent ]
Sure why not? (none / 1) (#61)
by Orion Blastar Again on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 09:51:51 PM EST

Virus shrinks cancer cells in lab mice. I suppose we can have a virus genetically engineered to eat only cancer and tumor cells.

Learn how to be a liberal.
I can't believe it's not Liberalism!
"Thanks for the pointers on using the internet. You're links to uncylopedia have turned my life around." -zenador

[ Parent ]
It doesn't matter (none / 0) (#62)
by debacle on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 11:44:15 PM EST

And it'd be easier to create a virus that was merely slower acting than rabies. Doing so would create a 'cure' that would cause cancerous tumors to slowly shrink, possibly disappear.

It tastes sweet.
[ Parent ]
Lots of spelling and grammar issues. (2.90 / 10) (#28)
by debacle on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 03:56:32 PM EST

This is the best AST ever.

It tastes sweet.
AST? (none / 0) (#30)
by luckbeaweirdo on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 04:02:09 PM EST

What is an AST?

[ Parent ]
If you honestly don't know, (2.75 / 4) (#40)
by Kasreyn on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 06:11:27 PM EST

then trust me, you don't need to know.

If you really do know: you have my admiration.


"Extenuating circumstance to be mentioned on Judgement Day:
We never asked to be born in the first place."

R.I.P. Kurt. You will be missed.
[ Parent ]
well... (none / 0) (#54)
by luckbeaweirdo on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 06:49:15 PM EST

I honestly didn't know, but now I do. Bummer.

But I like people who stir things up, so I will take it as a back handed compliment.

[ Parent ]

It was a compliment. [nt] (none / 0) (#65)
by debacle on Mon May 01, 2006 at 01:07:18 AM EST



It tastes sweet.
[ Parent ]
bleh (3.00 / 4) (#41)
by asret on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 06:11:36 PM EST

AST

Example


Be happy. You're cute when you smile.
[ Parent ]
That goddam BMJ, eh? (none / 0) (#157)
by ambrosen on Tue May 02, 2006 at 04:51:09 PM EST

I bet they're just trolling. After all, they published some of my USENET acquaintances in their last issue.

--
Procrastination does not make you cool. Being cool makes you procrastinate. DesiredUsername.
[ Parent ]
Nanites cured my asthma (1.72 / 11) (#31)
by r3u8rb on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 04:10:23 PM EST

If swimming in African poop "cured" you, I doubt you really had asthma.

---
Join me on irc.slashnet.org #Kuro5hin.org - the official Kuro5hin IRC channel.
poop?! (2.50 / 6) (#33)
by luckbeaweirdo on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 04:29:49 PM EST

Nice job, a remote diagnosis after the fact. One that contradicts two MDs, an allergist and an asthma specialist. As well as five or six different emergency room doctors.

You must be clairvoyant.

As well as puerile. Nice use of language, "poop". How can I possibly take you seriously when you can't even say "excrement" or "shit"

Did you read any of the links in the piece? Did you read any of the serious research being done?

Those were rhetorical questions, but, to borrow a phrase, I doubt you really have a brain.

[ Parent ]

Thanks for taking the time to reply (1.66 / 6) (#55)
by r3u8rb on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 06:51:45 PM EST

Nice job, a remote diagnosis after the fact. One that contradicts two MDs, an allergist and an asthma specialist.
There are over 800,000 MDs in the United States. Do the math. You're in the minority here, genius.
As well as puerile.
That's an incomplete sentence, you retard. How can I possibly take you seriously when you can't even write a complete sentence? Holy shit you're dumb.
Did you read any of the links in the piece? Did you read any of the serious research being done?
I know serious research when I see it, and you didn't link to anything remotely resembling serious research.

---
Join me on irc.slashnet.org #Kuro5hin.org - the official Kuro5hin IRC channel.
[ Parent ]
thanks for getting your engine running (2.00 / 4) (#58)
by luckbeaweirdo on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 07:22:36 PM EST

This could go on all day, couldn't it?

[ Parent ]
thanks for trolling me (2.20 / 5) (#60)
by r3u8rb on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 07:41:28 PM EST

i guess i should report your abuse to an administrator

---
Join me on irc.slashnet.org #Kuro5hin.org - the official Kuro5hin IRC channel.
[ Parent ]
Huh? (2.57 / 7) (#38)
by Kasreyn on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 06:01:49 PM EST

It was obvious to me that hookworm, for a healthy adult with a good diet, are quite benign.

I thought you said you were obese. That doesn't sound like a healthy adult with a good diet to me.


"Extenuating circumstance to be mentioned on Judgement Day:
We never asked to be born in the first place."

R.I.P. Kurt. You will be missed.
healthy vs. obese (3.00 / 6) (#46)
by luckbeaweirdo on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 06:31:11 PM EST

I was no longer obese by the time I went to Africa, but even were I that does not change the truth of the statement that for a healthy adult on a good diet hookworm are benign.

Also, obesity and excessive eating, assuming an excess of iron consumption is part of the general excess, would provide an additional shield against anemia.

thanks.

[ Parent ]

obesity (3.00 / 3) (#48)
by horny smurf on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 06:34:53 PM EST

He mentioned it as a side effect of prednisone.

[ Parent ]
Let me guess? (2.25 / 4) (#43)
by alphaxer0 on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 06:23:30 PM EST

You're not a doctor but you play one on K5? -1 practicing medicine without a license.

let me guess in turn (2.86 / 15) (#49)
by luckbeaweirdo on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 06:35:08 PM EST

Your not that bright but you pretend to be by being snarky on K5? - Identifying oneself as a jackass, no license required.

[ Parent ]
Yeah (2.77 / 9) (#66)
by alphaxer0 on Mon May 01, 2006 at 01:48:12 AM EST

Basically.

[ Parent ]
Have you thought of selling or donating your poop? (2.87 / 8) (#45)
by debacle on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 06:31:00 PM EST

For others who can't afford to make the trip? Your poop (excrement/shit) has the larvae in it, right?


It tastes sweet.
yes I have (2.66 / 3) (#47)
by luckbeaweirdo on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 06:32:30 PM EST

I sell my "expertise". Selling my "output" is probably illegal.

[ Parent ]
Depends on the country (2.83 / 6) (#50)
by debacle on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 06:35:38 PM EST

Sell it in the US and the FDA would be all over that shit.

What 'expertise' do you sell?

Can you offer the poop for free?

It tastes sweet.
[ Parent ]

FDA (2.80 / 5) (#52)
by luckbeaweirdo on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 06:37:40 PM EST

All this talk of excrement and shit and your tagline becomes increasingly incongruous.

I only speak obliquely about what I do and sell. Draw your own conclusions.

[ Parent ]

Let me rephrase (3.00 / 4) (#56)
by debacle on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 07:01:55 PM EST

If someone wanted to get thier hands on some of your shit, would it be possible?

It tastes sweet.
[ Parent ]
questions (3.00 / 6) (#57)
by luckbeaweirdo on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 07:18:45 PM EST

my email address appears in the article, one of my many phone numbers is +44 (0)141 416 2387

[ Parent ]
Is that some kind of LISP code?% (2.80 / 5) (#64)
by MMcP on Mon May 01, 2006 at 01:02:14 AM EST



[ Parent ]
I think it's some kind of LIMEY code $ (3.00 / 3) (#101)
by b1t r0t on Mon May 01, 2006 at 04:09:21 PM EST

+44 = UK

-- Indymedia: the fanfiction.net of journalism.
[ Parent ]
WARNING GAY SCAT HOOKUP ATTEMPT (2.88 / 9) (#100)
by Jobst of Moravia on Mon May 01, 2006 at 04:04:22 PM EST


---
              __
   .,-;-;-,. /'_\ ---Did this Negro say "Street Moor"?
 _/_/_/_|_\_\) /
'-<_><_><_><_>=\
 `/_/====/_/-'\_\
  ""     ""    ""

[ Parent ]

One man's gay scat hookup (3.00 / 6) (#103)
by debacle on Mon May 01, 2006 at 05:32:19 PM EST

Is another man's romantic scat affair.

It tastes sweet.
[ Parent ]
what a lovely pun $ (2.33 / 3) (#63)
by FizZle on Mon May 01, 2006 at 12:59:53 AM EST



---
"Leave a tip if you're datin' a girl from Eaton, or vice versa." - tip jar at B&D
[ Parent ]
You are terrifying. +1 FP. (3.00 / 9) (#68)
by TheNoxx on Mon May 01, 2006 at 03:12:03 AM EST

I've encountered some very interesting and bizarre personalities in my lifetime, but yours has an extremity that seems like it came from an episode of Star Trek. In fact, I find it much more likely that you are either from an alien society that uses parasitical worms to enhance their capabilities and sees them as fashionable, are so infested with hookworms that they've taken over your mental functions and are using you to conquer human civilization.

In either case, you've certainly given me a newfound phobia of anal sex, and at the very least will be asking every woman I bed from now on whether or not they've experimented with any terribly unorthodox cures, namely for the diseases you mentioned.

anal sex is fine... (3.00 / 7) (#69)
by luckbeaweirdo on Mon May 01, 2006 at 03:45:20 AM EST

... its the rim jobs you have to worrry about.

[ Parent ]
No..... (3.00 / 5) (#70)
by TheNoxx on Mon May 01, 2006 at 06:16:24 AM EST

I have no desire to enter copulation with an orifice teeming with parasitical worms, regardless of the chances of self infection.

[ Parent ]
stricly speaking (2.80 / 5) (#73)
by luckbeaweirdo on Mon May 01, 2006 at 09:10:36 AM EST

Unless you are hung like a mule I don't think you will be anywhere near the worms, they would be further up.


[ Parent ]
I can't believe I'm conversing about this, but... (3.00 / 14) (#75)
by TheNoxx on Mon May 01, 2006 at 09:44:41 AM EST

Since we're on the subject, and I will probably never, ever speak with another person about this particular topic... would the worms appear anywhere between 8 or 9 inches into the colon?

[ Parent ]
Btw (3.00 / 2) (#237)
by livus on Fri May 05, 2006 at 05:39:59 AM EST

are you this worried about hepatitus?

---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

[ Parent ]
I find your views interesting (1.25 / 4) (#82)
by Enlarged to Show Texture on Mon May 01, 2006 at 11:06:52 AM EST

and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

+1SP on the natural medicine approach


"Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." -- Isaac Asimov
Fucking insane. (1.33 / 6) (#88)
by NoMoreNicksLeft on Mon May 01, 2006 at 01:00:59 PM EST

I don't even like the idea of my intestinal flora. Sure, we get along, but it's got the feel of a very tense cease-fire. We're not allies, and there's never been a detente.

As soon as I can figure out how to get rid of the little fuckers, and replace them with my own cells for whatever minimal purpose it is that they serve, those fuckers are gone. Never to return.

But an actual worm? You have to be kidding. Learn to modulate your own fucking immune system. It's not so hard as you think.

--
Do not look directly into laser with remaining good eye.

I am large, I contain multitudes. n/c (2.50 / 4) (#123)
by Back Spaced on Tue May 02, 2006 at 01:11:50 AM EST


Bluto: My advice to you is to start drinking heavily.
Otter: Better listen to him, Flounder. He's pre-med.
[ Parent ]

you're a fucking retard (2.88 / 9) (#129)
by circletimessquare on Tue May 02, 2006 at 03:58:28 AM EST

  1. intestinal flora creates b vitamins that your body uses
  2. intestinal flora acts as a buffer agains the colonization of you by nastier shit
  3. this stuff is EVOLVED to live in your intestine. so removing something that's been in your gut since before your ancestors were human... hell... since before your ancestors walked on dry land, has repercussions that the author of this article hints at: removing your symbiots will hurt your immune system, and perhaps a whole range of biological functions in your body that have grown to depend upon the bacteria being there. perhaps you'll get intestinal cancer. perhaps you'll waste away. a whole number of things are possible. the whole point is, intestinal bacteria exist FOR YOUR BENEFIT MORON, and IS A SIGN OF HEALTH
"bacteria=bad" is an uneducated low iq simpleton's way of looking at the world


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
Heh. (1.66 / 3) (#130)
by NoMoreNicksLeft on Tue May 02, 2006 at 04:07:56 AM EST

You have no sense of humor, especially anything slightly absurd.
  1. Really? B vitamins? replace them with my own cells for whatever minimal purpose it is that they serve
  2. You don't say? those fuckers are gone. Never to return.
  3. Yes, but I am not a jaffa. I have no symbiont.
"bacteria=bad" is an uneducated low iq simpleton's way of looking at the world

You're not so bright yourself. A superior and more efficient system would have be self-sourcing all the things I need, not being held hostage by bugs. Again, I'm being absurd for comic effect, to an extent, but your own pseudo-sophisticate viewpoint is laughable.

YFI.

--
Do not look directly into laser with remaining good eye.
[ Parent ]

dude, you're a fucking retard (3.00 / 7) (#131)
by circletimessquare on Tue May 02, 2006 at 04:16:59 AM EST

every single one of your cells has a symbiont

it's called mitochondria

all eukaryotic cells have this symbiont. it's part of your life

without it, you would immediately die, no energy for any cell

likewise, intestinal bacteria is just a part of "YOU" as valid as your brain cells or your liver or your toes. every single human alive and every single human who has ever lived has had intestinal flora. doing what? SERVING A VALID FUNCTION. as valid as your kidneys or your lungs or your hand


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

you mean like in star wars? (3.00 / 6) (#142)
by lolwhatboy on Tue May 02, 2006 at 11:05:16 AM EST

those cells that make you a jedi?


[ Parent ]
pretty much (3.00 / 3) (#168)
by circletimessquare on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:45:00 PM EST

mitochondria have their own dna, but they can't survive on their own, but they do grow and divide on their own in each of your cells. there are metabolic diseases associated with poorly functioning/ low populations of mitochondria. you only get your mitochondria from your mother (symbiotic intracellular life forms don't pack easily in sperm)

plants have something called chloroplasts, which is plant version of mitochondria that derives its energy from the sun rather than from metabolizing nutrients (like all of our cells do, and all other animal life forms: they all survive via mitochondria)

it's postulated one cell swallowed another billions of years ago, and rather than digesting it, allowed it to continue living through quirk of fate (or hand of god i suppose if you're a creationist), and eventually becoming dependent on the swallowed cells byproduct: glorious ATP

ATP: you are now dependent upon that chemical for the molecular source of energy for all of your cellular processes

it isn't the "life force" in jedi speak you are talking about, but it is the genuine life force as any biology text book could hope to describe such a concept


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

You just like to attack people. (2.33 / 3) (#149)
by NoMoreNicksLeft on Tue May 02, 2006 at 01:31:06 PM EST

Well, have at it, you humorless son of a bitch.

Strange though, the fallacies that you use left and right. I bet you use the same on more important arguments too, if I could just be bothered to read through your unpunctuated, poorly written bullshit.

--
Do not look directly into laser with remaining good eye.
[ Parent ]

yes (1.50 / 2) (#158)
by circletimessquare on Tue May 02, 2006 at 05:10:12 PM EST

i like to attack people

now stop talking with your mouth full, bitch

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Eat shit and die. (1.33 / 3) (#170)
by NoMoreNicksLeft on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:51:47 PM EST



--
Do not look directly into laser with remaining good eye.
[ Parent ]
it's WALK in shit and get HOOKWORM (1.00 / 3) (#171)
by circletimessquare on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:58:16 PM EST

not EAT shit and DIE

you'd have to get some amoebic dysentry shit to do that... and that's not the kind of shit that is the subject matter here

come on man, stay with program, stay on target!

(snicker)


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Sorry, I don't tolerate parasites. (1.33 / 3) (#173)
by NoMoreNicksLeft on Tue May 02, 2006 at 07:15:34 PM EST

You, on the other hand, are welcome to stomp around in slimy turds all damn day, I don't give a fuck.

--
Do not look directly into laser with remaining good eye.
[ Parent ]
you don't tolerate parasites? (1.50 / 2) (#174)
by circletimessquare on Tue May 02, 2006 at 07:19:20 PM EST

what the hell are you doing 6 comments down in a thread with cts then?

xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxox

i love you, as you love me


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Mandatory bimonthly page-widening. (2.00 / 3) (#179)
by NoMoreNicksLeft on Tue May 02, 2006 at 10:29:24 PM EST

Duh.

--
Do not look directly into laser with remaining good eye.
[ Parent ]
Didn't read yet (3.00 / 20) (#89)
by Sgt York on Mon May 01, 2006 at 01:45:58 PM EST

b/c I'm quite familiar with the idea, and just wanted to post before anyone starts screaming "NUTCASE!!!". The idea's not really new, it's been around since the 50's AFAIK, it's just that nobody in the field has gone quite insane enough to give it a shot other than with correlative studies. We've blueskied the idea in journal clubs and lab meetings before, but the last joke is always "Yeah. And try to get funding for that." The NIH or ALA wouldn't even consider it; deliberately infecting people is unethical (unless you're Edward Jenner, of course). No industry types would fund it; no money in it. And you can't do it in animals. Mice don't get asthma. (really, they don't; we model allergic airway disease in them, but they don't get asthma)

The clean hypothesis is a hotly debated topic in the field. It'll be in favor one week, and out the next. Farm kids don't get asthma, RSV infection predisposes to asthma, childhood infection rate inversely correlates with atopy, and children with pets are more likely to develop allergies to nonpet allergens.

The one thing thatI think we can glean from the investigation of the clean hypothesis and potential causes like it is that asthma is not a single disease. There are, in fact, a collection of diseases that clinically manifest as asthma. IMO (and in the opinion of many of my colleagues), the airway hyperresponsiveness (AHR) that people normally think of as asthma should be treated as a symptom of an underlying disease, and not the disease itself. And, just like you can get a runny nose from a cold, influenza, allergies, sinus infection or a cocaine habit, you can get AHR from atopy, aspirin sensitivity, Th2 bias (clean hypothesis), or about a dozen other things, including the ones we don't know about yet.

That said, I would suggest you tone down the "magic bullet" aspect of the article. The idea has merit; I have no doubt about that. I'm sure it will work. However, I am just as certain that it won't work for all asthma and allergy. And until we can dissect out the specific types of asthma that are out there, using this as a blanket, magic-cure treatment will only hurt its reputation in the long run. Again, based on various blue-sky talks after a few beers at journal club, I'd estimate that clean hypothesis-based asthma and allergy is probably responsible for a large fraction of atopic asthma; maybe even 25%. However, even if 4 out of 5 of those 25% would benefit from this kind of treatment (another high number for successful treatment of asthma), you would still only see 20 people out of every 100 treated that would benefit from treatment. The vast majority of people that try it would probably see little or no benefit.

So, keep us (or at least me) posted. If you have any way of monitoring your asthma (like an FEV1 monitor; they're pretty cheap, they give them away at most of the conferences as keyrings), do it and keep a careful log. Include exposure to all of your traditional attack triggers (cold air, exercise, stress, pets, foods, etc), check your FEV1 at regular intervals, whenever you feel a little short of breath, or get exposed to a traditional attack trigger. If you can get a doctor to do a methacholine, AMP, or adenosine challenge to test for AHR, do that (but you probably will have a hard time getting anyone to do it; they're dangerous).

A quick pubmed search shows some guys to check out. The first two have free full text access to the articles.

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.

thanks for the thoughtful post. (3.00 / 7) (#90)
by luckbeaweirdo on Mon May 01, 2006 at 01:55:34 PM EST

One thing I did not make enough of in my story was the fact that conventional treatment was not working for me. For me the choice was stark.

I also prefer to treat underlying conditions rather than symptoms, which is all the conventional treatments do. Given my history of allergies I thought I was a good candidate since the anectodotal evidence is that hookworm cures hay fever as well.

Since you have not read the article you may not know that hay fever has also been a big issue for me.

I agree that asthma is not a single disease, and that perhaps only a minority would benefit from this. But I feel that minority deserves to know about it and to make their own minds up.

[ Parent ]

Damn, boy! (2.66 / 6) (#91)
by Sgt York on Mon May 01, 2006 at 02:00:56 PM EST

You went to Africa to get hookworms? Did you realize that they are zoonotic?

Ancylostoma duodenale I know is zoonotic, and is a health hazard in the US and Canada. I have to give my dog a pill once a month to prevent infection with it and other parasites. Actually, when we got him from the pound, he had hookworms, and the vet told us to make sure to keep the kids from playing with him, else they'd get infected as well. Necator probably is zoonitic, as well.

And dogshit is quite pletiful.

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.

Down boy! (2.87 / 8) (#92)
by luckbeaweirdo on Mon May 01, 2006 at 02:07:55 PM EST

For hookworm to make it through the lungs, attach to the lower intestine and reproduce they are species specific.

But the larva cannot distinguish in advance and often penetrate the skin of the wrong species. In this case the host gets a condition called larva migrans, or creeping eruption, where the larva die in the skin of the host and cause a rash.

the hookworm variety specific to dogs is Ancylostoma canium

[ Parent ]

insensible (2.62 / 8) (#93)
by svampa on Mon May 01, 2006 at 02:43:18 PM EST

Worms have been used to cure many things along the history, and they do work. Some scientists are investigating some kind of worm that eats just cancerous tessue and respects sane tissue. There is a reseach team that investigates worms used on wounds that prevents 100% necrosis and boosts cicatrization, they were used in ancient times by certain soldiers.

Beside the fact that because of cultural reasons we find such cures nasty, there are other problems

  • Worms itself may also be infected with a dangerous virus or bacteria for human being.
  • Modern medicine seldom (if ever) uses livings being to fight infections. For example penicillin, well some modern antibiotics, are produced by bacteria, but they don't use bacteria straight, but chemical products produced by bacteria. Why? it is dangerous, living being may evolve and become serious disease instead of a cure.
  • You have played with fire (walking on sheet is a good way to get a dozen of deseases, not just worms), and you are still playing with fire. And worse, you are playing with the health of people that surounds you. You may be carefull and tidy, but you can make a mistake and spread the worms. Don't you ever go to the bathroom out of you house? Or perhaps, your worms change their cycle to use a more effective way of spread in such aseptic 1st world environment.

    By the way, a percentage of asthmas are cured supressing milk products (milk cheese, butter...). Adult mammals don't drink milk, so they don't have the enzima to break some milk sugars and proteines, and some human adults can't either. In fact I think I've read that 50% of human adults can't digest milk products, but it's not uniformly distributted in different races.

    You should have tried no-milk diet before worms.



    lactose intolerant (3.00 / 5) (#95)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Mon May 01, 2006 at 03:04:06 PM EST

    I haven't consumed dairy products for years but it had no effect on my asthma.

    However eliminating milk, etc.  certainly did reduce the toxic output of my ass.

    Some things to note about the possibiity of me inadvertently infecting someone else with hookworm.

    1. Even were someone to become infected it would be an infection with a very small number of worms. I don't crap on the ground, I don't go camping, etc. Such a small number would absolutely be asymptomatic.
    2. I am infected with A. Duodenale, which die after one year. The individual, unless copraphagic, would not be infecting themselves further, so after one year they would be worm free.


    [ Parent ]
    Yea.. and in the meanwhile we're.. (2.33 / 6) (#104)
    by sudog on Mon May 01, 2006 at 05:56:03 PM EST

    ... wondering why our iron is low and why we have strange coughing fits but no phlegm.

    ... or we're wondering why our guts are rotting out when it's due to an African disease you unknowingly brought into our country with your stupid faeces-mashing behaviour.


    [ Parent ]

    read the story... (2.80 / 5) (#108)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Mon May 01, 2006 at 06:18:10 PM EST

    ... and you would see that you don't have anything to worry about... unless you lick someone's ass.

    If it was that infectious it would be here already. 1.3 billion people have it, a few must have visited us already.

    [ Parent ]

    And.. (1.33 / 3) (#150)
    by sudog on Tue May 02, 2006 at 01:49:35 PM EST

    .. you're sure helping matters by bring it, and possibly other infectious diseases and/or parasites, back with you from Africa. (Africa for god's sake!)

    Additionally, you missed my point: licking someone's ass is not the only possible vector for this, and you know it.


    [ Parent ]

    wherein the author debunks this entire story (2.25 / 12) (#94)
    by lolwhatboy on Mon May 01, 2006 at 02:46:22 PM EST

    evidently if you are a nullo but post something that's completely wack you get voted up. unbelievable.

    do not be misled. this man is batshit insane. he was arguing with a machete wielding african while he stepped around in a village's feces. he went village to village, stepping on feces constantly. he did this after he explained to everyone on the plane and his generous hosts that he came to their beloved country to get infected with hookworms.

    now if you walked in shit after flying half way across the world you'd hope your batshit insane cure would work wouldn't you? probably even induce a placebo effect.

    there's no chance our stalwart adventurer could bring himself to believe that the hookworm wouldn't cure him. it's psychosomatic. his immune system took it easy after it realized its own host is two fries short of a happy meal.

    working as intended. stop making the man sneeze or he'll swallow a cobra next and that wouldn't help his body survive for long.


    batshit insane (2.83 / 6) (#96)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Mon May 01, 2006 at 03:11:06 PM EST

    I took a calculated risk, my perspective is not yours (I wonder if you have chronic, severe asthma?) and my gamble worked.

    I was innoculated against everything possible, I took precautions to avoid the rest (insect repellant, avoiding coming into contact with fresh water sources, avoiding the worst areas for other diseases, etc.)

    I was daring, I was scared, well, shitless, I was sick to my stomach, and I endure the sneers and laughter of many. But I persevered because my mind was able to override my fear, my fear of ridicule, my bias and my revulsion. Now I can breathe freely.

    All you have to do is read about it, no one is asking you to step in it.


    [ Parent ]

    aahahahahaaahaha... swallow a cobra... (none / 1) (#265)
    by Russell Dovey on Tue May 09, 2006 at 04:00:02 AM EST

    stop making me die

    "Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light." - Spike Milligan
    [ Parent ]

    wow, a Spike Milligan quote (3.00 / 2) (#267)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Tue May 09, 2006 at 10:03:22 AM EST

    I saw him on a day time show, Bernie something or others, live, in the 80's on the BBC or perhaps ITV, when I lived in England. the man was nothing short of a genius, absolutely sublime humor.

    I liked his autobiography, too, can't remember what it was called. It was ridiculous that Peter Sellers should become the megastar out of that comedy troupe and not Spike Milligan.

    [ Parent ]

    Adolf Hitler: My Part In His Downfall. (2.50 / 2) (#270)
    by Russell Dovey on Thu May 11, 2006 at 02:52:12 AM EST

    That's the book describing his adventures as a soldier in World War 2.

    "Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light." - Spike Milligan
    [ Parent ]

    that was it (none / 0) (#273)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Fri May 12, 2006 at 08:55:57 PM EST

    and it was good.

    [ Parent ]
    You are one fucking freaky S.O.B.. (1.77 / 9) (#97)
    by sudog on Mon May 01, 2006 at 03:19:33 PM EST

    If this isn't an elaborate hoax, it's people like you that really piss me off. You realise of course, that everywhere you go now is a potential hotzone of hookworm infestation? If you're wiping your ass one day and you don't wash your hands properly, you could end up infecting one of us who greets you and shakes your fucking hand. Then we needlessly get fucked by a hookworm infestation that apparently depresses our immune system because you decided you were going to bring back some worms from Africa.

    Additionally, I don't believe you've actually been able to successfully determine that these worms are, in fact, the hookworms you're after: you don't report that you have an actual, real diagnosis under your belt. Therefore, you might not have hookworms at all, but might have something else entirely.

    In that case, you have now brought back a freaky fucking African parasite that happens to cure your asthma but could now fuck over all your neighbours.

    Also, knowingly transporting unidentified parasites and/or viruses across international boundaries without declaring you've done so is not only highly illegal, but it's immoral. Additionally, you don't appear to be sure whether you're carrying anything else because you don't actually know what all you've exposed yourself to.

    You're one sick puppy.. and if you have, in fact, done this, I hope you go to jail for endangering the rest of us.

    Especially if you're Canadian.


    that was really good (2.60 / 5) (#98)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Mon May 01, 2006 at 03:34:07 PM EST

    I especially liked the punch line.

    Actually, what I do is cover my hands in a barrier cream, apply the larva to my hands using the bilayered material I reference and then go to gatherings where I am likely to meet <insert name of least favored group here>.

    Sounds to me like you have been watching too many Lysol commercials.

    [ Parent ]

    Your willingness to endanger others astounds me. (none / 1) (#105)
    by sudog on Mon May 01, 2006 at 05:57:35 PM EST

    en fucking tee.


    [ Parent ]
    he's in the uk (none / 1) (#99)
    by lolwhatboy on Mon May 01, 2006 at 03:37:01 PM EST

    i guess he's going to infect himself with bird flu next to stop migraine headaches.

    like i say in my comment below. batshit insane.


    [ Parent ]

    Thank God. (none / 0) (#107)
    by sudog on Mon May 01, 2006 at 06:00:21 PM EST

    I'm Canadian. I was all set to be Really Fucking Disappointed in a fellow Canadian's willful ignorance.


    [ Parent ]
    blah blah blah (3.00 / 2) (#109)
    by thankyougustad on Mon May 01, 2006 at 06:30:58 PM EST

    blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah illegal and immoral!

    No no thanks no
    Je n'aime que le bourbon
    no no thanks no
    c'est une affaire de goût.

    [ Parent ]
    huh...? 0x0 (none / 0) (#110)
    by sudog on Mon May 01, 2006 at 06:53:49 PM EST



    [ Parent ]
    illegal & immoral? (none / 1) (#114)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Mon May 01, 2006 at 07:59:15 PM EST

    explain yourself on both counts, please.

    [ Parent ]
    ask the other dude (none / 0) (#117)
    by thankyougustad on Mon May 01, 2006 at 09:51:59 PM EST



    No no thanks no
    Je n'aime que le bourbon
    no no thanks no
    c'est une affaire de goût.

    [ Parent ]
    doh (3.00 / 2) (#144)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Tue May 02, 2006 at 11:36:08 AM EST

    sorry, being obtuse.

    thanks.

    [ Parent ]

    +1 FP. Great story (2.71 / 7) (#106)
    by redqueen on Mon May 01, 2006 at 05:59:36 PM EST

    But more, You nailed your audience. Bravo.

    Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
    WTF (2.60 / 5) (#111)
    by kbudha on Mon May 01, 2006 at 07:07:05 PM EST

    Do you shake other's hands?

    Please tell me you practice extreme hygeine as well as precautionary procedures to protect the rest of us.

    Some of us fought off asthma by just exercising and eating right.

    And I still smoke(weed and cigs) occasionally.
    .

    transmission unlikely (3.00 / 5) (#112)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Mon May 01, 2006 at 07:44:38 PM EST

    Hi there, this seems to be a common concern for many readers, that I will become "hookworm Harry" like typhoid Mary.

    On the subject of potential unwitting transmission consider these points:

    First, it takes 48 hours after defecation for the larvae to hatch from embryos and then molt to the infectious form.

    Since I wash my hands, and my ass thank you, far more frequently than that it is extremely unlikely that anyone would catch even one worm from me that way. Besides, I wash after each trip tot he bathroom (just hands...). I shower every day.

    I never go camping or put myself in a situation where I cannot defecate in a toilet. Ever. So there is no danger of anyone encountering my turds in the wild.

    For these reasons it is very, very unlikely that anyone will be infected.

    But what if they were?

    Remember that hookworm can only reproduce with that larval stage outside the body. They cannot proliferate solely within your digestive tract.

    So, even were someone to become infected it would be a dead end. And given the circumstances described above any infection would be very light.

    I don't think there is anything to worry about given the above.


    [ Parent ]

    no offense (2.71 / 7) (#119)
    by SocratesGhost on Mon May 01, 2006 at 10:28:04 PM EST

    but you're asking us to trust you in this matter. People get sloppy over time and since you're doing something so unorthodox, the only safety net that the public has from you is... well... you.

    You seem like a nice guy, but suppose every asthmatic were to do this. Do you think every single one of them would be as consciencious as you? If so, you have greater faith in humanity than I do and I consider myself an optimist. If not, then why should the public be comfortable giving you a free pass just because you promise to use it responsibly?

    No offense but I can't afford to trust you.

    -Soc
    I drank what?


    [ Parent ]
    I agree (2.71 / 7) (#126)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Tue May 02, 2006 at 02:17:18 AM EST

    But then, lets face it, every asthmatic is not going to do this.

    Most people react to the repulsive nature of worms and parasites. It is distasteful. I remember the first night I read the article on the BBC, when I first encountered this concept and started to consider self-infestation, I had a nightmare about worms. They are repugnant.

    But once one steps back and loses one's revulsion the true impact of hookworm is clearer.

    They will never be a big issue in a country with toilets. Ever.

    The negative health impact for a host living in a western environment is less than that of a cold.

    Remember, even in the third world, with people walking back and forth every day in contaminated soil, most people are asymptomatic.  

    Even were I to infect someone here in the west they would likely never know it, and one year later the hookworm would all be dead and elminated from their body.

    Apart from squeamishness this is not an issue regardless of my behavior and trustworthiness.

    [ Parent ]

    just because you're a true believer (2.66 / 6) (#127)
    by SocratesGhost on Tue May 02, 2006 at 02:54:59 AM EST

    that doesn't mean that I must find your practices acceptible.

    I think you've missed my point about asthmatics doing this. I cannot think of you as an extraordinary person. You're just some guy off the street. If the rate of failure to keep clean for asthmatics is 1 in 100, I have to assume that 1 out of 100 times, you're going to slip up. I'm sure you won't mean it, but you'll probably think to yourself "so what if I didn't wash my hands before rushing to this very important meeting, the chances of infection are minimal, countries with toilets, yadda yadda yadda, I'll remember to wash later" and then you won't wash later.

    So, everyone here has to assume that your rate of failure is going to be about that as the asthmatic average.

    Also, you're not even certain what other kinds of nasties you may have picked up. Why should we trust you?

    It sounds as though you've rationalized this out pretty well for yourself. Congratulations.

    -Soc
    I drank what?


    [ Parent ]
    yes I have (2.75 / 4) (#138)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Tue May 02, 2006 at 10:19:19 AM EST

    Rationalized it, I mean. By which I mean, thought it through.

    If it were easy to pass by shaking hands, if it were that infectious, the rate of infection in the tropics would be approaching 100%.

    But if you read the story you know it isn't. In fact it varies with humidity and rainfall. Meaning how wet the ground is to distribute the larva and embryos widely.

    In Cameroon no one has water to their houses except the wealthy, and even though conditions were perfect in the province I visited for hookworm (very humid and lots of rain) the infestation rate is only 1 in 5.

    If they don't have an epidemic despite the fact that almost no one washes their hands after taking a shit I think you can rest easy. If you are being rational.

    As I pointed out earlier, this is just not an issue for the host anyway. Even if a few people do get infected they won't even know.

    How many people get really sick eating unwashed salads, etc. I am thinking of hepatitis, etc. Here is a disease that if they do get it will be asymptomatic

    If a man is alone in a forest without his wife, is he still wrong?

    I can't help but think that your reaction is based on your revulsion, not any rational assessment of the risks.

    I said it to someone else, I'll say it to you, you have seen too many Lysol commercials.

    [ Parent ]

    no (2.40 / 5) (#146)
    by SocratesGhost on Tue May 02, 2006 at 11:47:17 AM EST

    here's the difference: if I forget to wash my salad, it's my fault. If I forget to wash the salad that just came from your anus because you gave me the impression it was clean, it's your fault. If I catch the plague from you because you decided it'd be fun to romp around with the monkeys from Outbreak, it's your fault.

    Here's the truly chilling part: "if a few people do get infected they won't even know."

    So, it doesn't matter to you if you infect anyone? It doesn't matter to you if they have an allergic reaction? It doesn't matter to you that these critters could be carriers for other diseases diseases that have not manifested in you? It doesn't matter to you if they develop an infestation at all, because, well, worse case is they'll only get it for a year?

    This is what you're really saying: It doesn't matter to you because if any of these hookworms who have been travelling in your feces infests these other people, and you transmit to them any untold number of diseases you picked up from the latrines of Africa, you have a clean conscience.

    That's pretty sociopathic behavior.

    Realize that I have no problem with the techique as long as it's administered with enough oversight and with enough safety nets. You have none except for your promise to keep clean. Your attitude here displays how little your guarantees should mean to me.

    You are a creep.

    -Soc
    I drank what?


    [ Parent ]
    creep back into your shell (2.50 / 4) (#148)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Tue May 02, 2006 at 12:37:14 PM EST

    I said that no one would even know if they were infected to point out that it is less a disease than the common cold. If a disease causes no symptoms is it a disease?

    You are crawling with bacteria and virii, and if I have had the misfortune to shake your hand you have infected me with them. How dare you, you irresponsible, well, creep.

    It does no harm, it isn't debilitating, it doesn't even send you to bed to feel bad. So what is it?

    Like I said, if a man is alone in the forest without his wife, is he still wrong?

    Keep washing those hands and pissing in bottles, you will be fine.

    [ Parent ]

    you know (3.00 / 3) (#151)
    by SocratesGhost on Tue May 02, 2006 at 03:01:25 PM EST

    I don't think you realize that I'm less concerned with the parasites than with the diseases they transmit and the physical consequences others may suffer as a result of your contact with them.

    The man out in the forest is a moot point. It's not wrong for him because his isolation is the safety net from transmitting the diseases to the public. This safety net has been my only concern in this discussion. Are you staying in a clean room while you have these or are you participating in everyday life again? You didn't say you were avoiding contact with people, so I can only presume that this whole line of argument is specious.

    Besides, in the workplace, if someone catches a cold, they stay home both to recover and as a courtesy so as not to infect anyone else. Also, once people catch a particular strain of a cold, they remain immune to that strain and cannot catch it again. Your can re-infest your co-workers and friends many times. In addition to the flu and cold bugs that we all unknowingly and unavoidably carry, you are purposefully introducing a new health hazard. Comparing what you've done with the common cold is another specious argument.

    -Soc
    I drank what?


    [ Parent ]
    we disagree (2.25 / 4) (#167)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:19:41 PM EST

    I am perfectly aware of what your concerns are, but I believe your viewpoint has more to do with your distaste for what I have done than with the risk that I might infest someone.

    As to my point about the cold and the man in the forest it is clear you and I have very different beliefs about what kind of risk hookworms pose to a host.

    My view, based on a great deal of reading on the subject, is that there is none.

    They are not vectors for other diseases and they themselves do not cause problems for a host, unless present in very large numbers. So what is the issue?

    Should asthmatics like me should forgoe this avenue to relief because some people find the idea of intestinal worms distasteful?


    [ Parent ]

    Sure, if it's irresponsible.... (none / 0) (#286)
    by sarkeizen on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 02:20:02 PM EST

    My view, based on a great deal of reading on the subject, is that there is none.

    Well unfortunately for you (and us) that doesn't necessarily make you in a position to judge.  You're making an argument from silence (or ignorance - you choose).  

    Another problem with your reasoning appears to be in not taking into account the epidemiology of the parasite.  For example in your own posting you've stated that even if someone gets infected with the parasites they may not even know it but you don't appear to comment on how this would leave someone free to pass on the larvae - because they wouldn't be as religious in taking the precautions that you do - to say their child, pregnant wife or immunocompromised friend.

    Now all of your ideas about how harmless these parasites are go out the window and your home remedy has moved from something that is harmless-even-if-you-forget-to-properly-sanitize to potentially damaging.  I mean it isn't hard to see that hookworm infections are correlated with a large number of disability-adjusted life years among children (both directly and via the mother).

    Your harping on how it's unlikely that an epidemic would occur is irrelevant.  Anyone who sustains harm from your hookworms would be your fault.

    Don't make the mistake of confusing "asymptomatic" with "harmless".

    Also you are more than a little fixated on trying to force criticisms of your actions into a box labeled "You just are repulsed by what I did".  I realize by doing so that it's easier to justify your actions but it's hardly evidence of you "being rational" that you frequently lay claim to.


    [ Parent ]

    and... (none / 0) (#289)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Fri Jun 09, 2006 at 09:51:45 AM EST

    ... what makes your opinion based on far less reading on the subject any more relevant?

    it comes down to this, if hookworm were going to do harm it would do. it doesn't (with all the qualifications I attached previously), read something before you spew your western sensibilities at me.

    As well, one of the points I answered in the post you critique is that I might start some kind of outbreak or epidemic here.

    If hookworm were easy to transmit in the west they would already be established.

    Before you bandy about works like epidemiology do some thinking and some learning on the topic.

    one last time, those being harmed by hookworm are a tiny minority and are harmed when they are subject to an enormous load of worms and have poor diets.

    How many times do I have to say it.

    Go do some research before you criticize what I have to say.

    [ Parent ]

    silly person... (none / 0) (#291)
    by sarkeizen on Mon Jun 12, 2006 at 04:02:46 PM EST

    ... what makes your opinion based on far less reading on the subject any more relevant?

    *sigh* again an argument from ignorance...but anyway.  Interesting thing that one of the doctors I talked to about this brought up was that you - not being a doctor of any sort - don't actually know what kind of hookworm you've infected yourself with.  

    They also thought your use of 'cure' was deceptive.  Since you continually re-infect yourself it's a treatment at best.  The majority had a number of questions as to other treatments considering that new asthma treatments are introduced every year they were skeptical that 'all' were tried.

    ....and you still haven't addressed the fact that you are arguing from silence.  

    it comes down to this, if hookworm were going to do harm it would do. it doesn't

    I'll assume (perhaps optomistically) that you're actually responding in context to my post here.  The harm I'm talking about is to people other than you and you defeat your own argument - if most people you infect don't show symptoms - you can't even know who you've infected...let alone some long term problems.  

    read something before you spew your western sensibilities at me.

    ROTFL there's nothing about western sensibilities in my posting.  Speaking of reading...how about reading my post! :)

    As well, one of the points I answered in the post you critique is that I might start some kind of outbreak or epidemic here.

    Uh...except that I didn't say that at all.  Again reading the post before responding is advised.

    Before you bandy about works like epidemiology do some thinking and some learning on the topic.

    I did and I bounced the idea off a number of the doctors I see on a daily basis and searched the medical library of the local medical college.  The doctors agreed that it is possible - if you lapse in your hygene - to pass it someone who is much less rigorous.  Who could then pass it on to a member of a people group that could be hurt significantly. Not to mention any search of pub med shows problems among the people groups I mentioned.  

    those being harmed by hookworm are a tiny minority

    Generally that may be true but that's not the issue I brought up....at the risk of being redundant you might consider reading the post.  The specific point was the number of articles about hookworm infections significantly affecting the DALY among particular groups.

    ...anyway this set of corrections is probably more for other readers.  I rather expect you to continue to pretend I'm saying something other than I have.

    Enjoy!

    [ Parent ]

    is that it, supercillious nerd #29? (none / 0) (#293)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 07:53:11 PM EST

    I have seen so many posts like yours on this board, although you appear to have joined solely to critique my story, to so many stories.

    Go get your knees dirty, climb a tree, flirt with a girl/boy, and get over that sad, sad childhood you had stuck indoors learning to program the Sinclair or Commodore that was your only companion growing up.

    And for god's sake use your mind for something a little more imaginative and worthwhile than sniping.

    Running around all worried to discuss this outrage with all your doctors and doctor friends? Really?

    sigh Hahah. Bold face sigh?! Jackass.

    Now to answer your points (and it is only you and I here now).

    Ignorance, if that argument cuts against me, it cuts against you. I know I have done far more research than you on this topic. What, you think talking to a few doctors is something I didn't do? How many months did you spend researching this, did you purchase access to the Lancet or the NEJM to read the research. Did you contact researchers at Nottingham and Iowa?

    What type of hookworm? I have A. duodenale. There are two types, the other is N. Americanus. Find a doctor (like I did) who knows about tropical medicine (and who went to the London School of Tropical Medicine) and you too will be able to locate a lab that can not only diagnose hookworm but tell you approximately how many you have and of what variety. Maybe your doctor buddies slept through that portion of their course?

    Not a cure?I don't have symptoms of asthma or hayfever any longer. If my genotype is symbiotic with hookworm then it is right that they and I should be together. Hence I would argue that even splitting hairs as you are about the meaning of the word cure, my use of it is correct. But hey, if you don't accept that argument then you are right, it is not, strictly speaking a cure, since I must remain infested with hookworm. But it sure feels like one when I go running.

    All asthma treatments, as of the day I decided to try hookworm. How many thousands should I spend and how much lung scarring am I supposed to endure to make your doctor buddies happy that I exhausted every overpriced palliative the drug industry has been able to cook up? What a lame critique.

    Nothing about your western sensibilities in your post? Of course there are. Are you the first objective human? Do I even have to answer this one? Your entire world view is based on your position, hence western sensibilities. When I was in Cameroon no one thought a thing of what I was trying to do when I explained it. Jesus.

    With respect to the epidemic line, I clearly refer to the post you are criticizing, I did not say that you said I was going to cause an epidemic. Neither am I going to transmit these to anyone else. Your doctor friends (who are probably MDs who know next to nothing about hookworm or its lifecycle - anyone in that group studied at the London School of Tropical Medicine?) don't know, I can't resist, shit about the subject. Sure, if I got excrement on my hand and then didn't wash that hand for 48 hours, and my hand didn't get too dry/hot/cold/illuminated then I could transfer a few (1-10?) viable larvae to someone if we came into skin contact (if one assumes that they had no interest in penetrating my sking but were instead content to wait for an alternative host). Are you seriously suggesting I go two days without washing my hands? Or that I walk around with shit encrusted clothes? Or that anyone I contact might do the same?

    What the hell do you do in the bathroom?

    Pass it on in turn to a number of people who could be hurt significantly!? How? You read jack shit in your library. This part of your post assumes that the person being infected will have a worm load in the hundreds or thousand from a handshake with an infected individual whose hand would have to literally covered in shit to even approach this many larva being transmitted.

    Further, to suffer harm, that they will suffer from malnutrition predisposing them to anemia before the infection or during due to poor diet and will not go to a doctor in this scenario until they suffer brain damage or death due to anoxia secondary to anemia. Are you fucking serious?

    Idiots like you tire me out.

    "Enjoy"? haha, that's great, very funny. You are so smart.

    Are you beating off now?

    [ Parent ]

    your personal attacks aside... (none / 0) (#295)
    by sarkeizen on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 08:04:01 PM EST

    Ignorance, if that argument cuts against me, it cuts against you.

    No not in the sense I'm using it.  You have, in a number of cases made statements that express (and in others imply) that because you don't know something it is therefore not true (or that because you can't find a problem with something it is therefore right).  These are the arguments from ignorance that you haven't responded to.

    I know I have done far more research than you on this topic.

    No you simply assert that.  Knowing is a different thing.

    What, you think talking to a few doctors is something I didn't do?

    Not a few, about twenty.  Just to be clear here, you're now saying you consulted more than twenty doctors? ( interpreting your assertion that you did more than I did )

    did you purchase access to the Lancet or the NEJM to read the research.

    No I have access to just about any medical journal and text I need.  I can cross-search all but a few specialized journals.  Now if you were more interested in providing actual evidence than what you have being doing for a good part of this thread:

    a) Parading around arguments from ignorance.
    b) Imagining that I'm somehow offended by your treatment.
    c) ...and now personal attacks (or just insults - including the very amusing one of attacking bolding that was placed there by kuro5hin's backend).

    If you could somehow get over yourself.  You might have something worthwhile to say.

    Did you contact researchers at Nottingham and Iowa?

    No but then again if it's not published then it's not properly peer reviewed.  

    What type of hookworm? I have A. duodenale....maybe your doctor buddies slept through that portion of their course?

    Your imagination again.  They didn't say they didn't know how to find out but they wondered how you found out.  Labs that can run that kind of test aren't everywhere.

    Not a cure?I don't have symptoms of asthma or hayfever any longer.

    As long as you infect yourself with hookworm.  Contrasted with something that has a permanent effect or at least lasts for a term after which environmental effects or personal choices would have a much stronger correlation.

    I would argue that even splitting hairs as you are

    You are simply incorrect.  This is the way the medical community uses the term 'cure'.  For example for reccurance of breast cancer being without malignancy for 5-10 years is considered cured.  According to your usage if someone grew a tumor every week and then had it cut off every week they are cured.

    Nothing about your western sensibilities in your post? Of course there are.

    ....and yet you are sigularly unable to point them out.  Not surprising.

    Are you the first objective human?

    You are appealing to an arbitrary standard of evidence. I don't need to be generally objective.  Just not subjectively influenced to a significant degree on this subject.  The proper counter is to provide a specific point where I clearly object on subjective grounds which is precisely indicitive of western sensibilities....so far you haven't.

    (My guess here is that you will move to begging the question next btw!)

    I clearly refer to the post you are criticizing, I did not say that you said I was going to cause an epidemic.

    Well you certianly implied it.  To wit:

    "As well, one of the points I answered in the post you critique is that I might start some kind of outbreak or epidemic here"

    How would this be relevant if you weren't responding to a point about you starting an epidemic by me?  It wouldn't.

    Are you seriously suggesting I go two days without washing my hands? Or that anyone I contact might do the same?

    Perhaps you should talk to those selfsame MD's ask some of them who work in public clinics.   I could tell you stories of hygene lapses that would bother even someone like who seems to see people bashing him with their western sensibilities everywhere. :-)

    This part of your post assumes that the person being infected will have a worm load in the hundreds or thousand

    No, I'm basing this on the fact that 'moderate' is both the wormload used in a number of articles to describe your thereputic effect and determental effect to sensitive groups.

    So unless can you point me to a specific citation that actually determines the wormload LIMIT for damage to sensitive groups ( ....and since you did all this research you should know exactly which groups those are).  If you don't know the limit then you don't know that you aren't causing harm.

    Further, to suffer harm, that they will suffer from malnutrition predisposing them to anemia before the infection or during due to poor diet and will not go to a doctor in this scenario until they suffer brain damage or death due to anoxia secondary to anemia.

    You seem to be arguing by special definintion. That brain damage and death are the only kinds of harm.  DALY can track effects that aren't dramatic like death as a symptom of the disease but also other effects like physical stunting which contribute to a decreased lifespan.

    [ Parent ]

    Let's get this straight. (2.28 / 7) (#223)
    by vectro on Thu May 04, 2006 at 10:23:32 AM EST

    In order for an urban secondary infection to occur, all of the following unlikely steps would have to take place:
    1. Carrier A defecates.
    2. Carrier A comes in contact with his own feces.
    3. Carrier A then fails to wash his hands.
    4. Some hookworm larvae do, in fact, stay on his hands.
    5. Person B comes into contact with Carrier A's hands.
    6. Some hookworm larvae do, in fact, transfer hands.
    7. Person B fails to wash her hands during the entire 48-hour period starting at step 1.
    8. The hookworm larvae survive all of steps 2-7 intact in this dry environment.
    And if all of this does happen, and Person B gets infected, what are the consequences? This person has a disease which:
    • Will probably be asymptomatic.
    • Can be cured reliably, easily, quickly, and cheaply.
    • Has an accurate, widely-available test.
    • Will in any case last at most a year.
    Now, as an exercise to the student,  make a detailed comparison of the net effects of luckbeaweirdo's actions and those of someone who goes into a crowded public place while carrying influenza. (Hint: The latter is both much more likely to result in infection, and the resulting infection is much more likely to result in serious consequences)

    “The problem with that definition is just that it's bullshit.” -- localroger
    [ Parent ]
    Ex-fucking-actly (2.00 / 2) (#228)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Thu May 04, 2006 at 01:31:04 PM EST



    [ Parent ]
    If someone goes out in public, (none / 0) (#279)
    by ambrosen on Fri May 19, 2006 at 02:22:16 PM EST

    then they probably don't have influenza.

    --
    Procrastination does not make you cool. Being cool makes you procrastinate. DesiredUsername.
    [ Parent ]
    odd logic you have... (none / 0) (#296)
    by sarkeizen on Mon Aug 14, 2006 at 11:22:00 AM EST

    * Will probably be asymptomatic.

    Strawman - what I'm talking about is harm not symptoms.  To illustrate: Colon cancer is largely asymptomatic until it is advanced.  Are you trying to argue that until it shows symptoms it is harmless? Hopefully not.

    * Can be cured reliably, easily, quickly, and cheaply.

    Except by your own admission the person is likely 'asymptomatic' so the 'cure' is not likely going to be deemed necessary until harm has occured (and they start showing secondary symptoms).

    * Has an accurate, widely-available test.

    Using a pretty broad usage of 'widely available' there but again the person is 'asymptomatic' so they don't know they need this test.

    * Will in any case last at most a year.

    Enough time for harm to be done to sensitive groups.

    [ Parent ]

    Please to be explaining. (none / 0) (#297)
    by vectro on Fri Aug 25, 2006 at 03:18:38 PM EST

    1. What is the harm to which you refer, which can apparantly happen without any symptoms ever? I would point out that while colon cancer is largely asymptomatic in its early stages, it later becomes very much symptomatic. Hookworm is the opposite: symptoms are most likely to appear in the beginning.
    2. Who are these sensitive groups to which you refer, who are apparantly especially susceptible to this  harm you have mentioned?


    “The problem with that definition is just that it's bullshit.” -- localroger
    [ Parent ]
    Comparison to other diseases (3.00 / 3) (#140)
    by xC0000005 on Tue May 02, 2006 at 10:25:17 AM EST

    A lot of people have harped on the risk of infecting others, and it's a valid concern (despite the author's assertions otherwise), but consider that there are other fecal born diseases, and we as a society place the onus on the individual to be careful where he goes. That's how we deal with it (we meaning most of the western world).

    Voice of the Hive - Beekeeping and Bees for those who don't
    [ Parent ]
    Long term effects (2.80 / 5) (#115)
    by coward anonymous on Mon May 01, 2006 at 08:31:19 PM EST

    1. How long have you been infested?
    1. How do you know you are not suffering from intestinal bleeding? How often do you make sure?
    2. What are the long term effects of this on someone who does not die from anemia?
    3. Have you gotten the flu (or any other infectious disease) lately? Any difference in symptoms, severity, duration?

    Answers (3.00 / 5) (#124)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Tue May 02, 2006 at 01:41:14 AM EST

    1. How long have you been infested?

    A: I have been infested for almost a year.

    1. How do you know you are not suffering from intestinal bleeding? How often do you make sure?

    A: Intestinal bleeding is not an issue with hookworm, and so long as the worm load is moderate anemia is never an issue because of the blood they consume. Remember, the adult worms are less than half an inch long and half a millimeter wide. How much blood can one consume? If one were concerned about bleeding there are simple tests for blood in stool because it is one of the symtoms of intestinal cancers, like colon cancer. So the test is widely available.

    2. What are the long term effects of this on someone who does not die from anemia?

    A: Unless the worm load is enormous or the host compromised no one dies of hookworm infestation. It is not in the interest of the parasite to kill the host, after all. This is particularly true here in the west with good nutrition and access to medical care. Rember also that hookworm is never an acute, or crisis-like, condition. It is chronic, so there is plenty of time to monitor and react.

    In the case of women I would imagine that menstruation would require additional vigilance and supplements, but the delta on the blood loss even in that case would not be so great as to induce anemia for most in the west.

    Remember also that there are no symptoms for most people who have hookworm, and this means most people with hookworm in some of the poorest countries on earth, living in desperate conditions. If they make it we in the west will have no problems.

    I have read that some people experience abdominal pain, but I never have. Also, if there are issues then eliminating hookworm means taking a pill a few times a day for a few days. Cheap, effective and rapid.

    3. Have you gotten the flu (or any other infectious disease) lately? Any difference in symptoms, severity, duration?

    A: Hookworm infestation does not depress the host's immune response in a broad way, it down regulates one narrow part of it. So a hookworm host is not immuno-compromised as in the case of HIV. In fact the arguement goes that for those with this genetic profile, that is like mine, it has become a symbiotic relationship. In my case my asthma is the symptom of an immune system suffering from the absence of a symbiot.

    But to answer your question, yes, I have gotten sick. Flu and colds. No difference, except no asthma or bronchitis. I used to get asthma and bronchitis routinely (this is a common phenomena in asthma sufferers, it makes you susceptible) when I caught a cold or the flu. Not this past winter.


    [ Parent ]

    Interpretation (3.00 / 4) (#177)
    by coward anonymous on Tue May 02, 2006 at 09:23:16 PM EST

    1. Most of the online articles returned by googling "hookworm", mention intestinal bleeding as a major side effect.
    2. No one dies of hookworm and many don't have symptoms except for their short lives. The country you visited to get infested has an average life expectancy of 47 years. Children routinely die from it. The two may or may not be correlated but you have no way of knowing that. I don't think you can make assumptions about the hookworms "best interests" - it does kill children and that surely can't be in its self interest. From a purely reproductive sense, you are expendable after your first stool, all the more so after 15-20 years. Maybe you should chat with Ebola about its "best interests".
    Taking the the medication to kill it is of no use after 15-20 years of chronic exposure.

    3. You don't know what it does. There appears to be a long lasting immune response to the presence of hookworms http://cmr.asm.org/cgi/content/full/14/4/689

    [ Parent ]

    I am getting bored answering posts like this one (2.00 / 4) (#182)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Wed May 03, 2006 at 12:04:13 AM EST

    1. I did not have time to read the "approximately 570,000" pages returned by your Google search, but I salute your efforts in doing so.

    But lets assume you are right. So what? We know they are intestinal "leeches" and suck blood. Who cares if they are messy eaters? We know anemia is only going to happen with a lot of worms, right? We know most hosts are asymptomatic. So who cares if they are making the best use of the blood that drains out of me or not?

    2. Having been to Cameroon I can attest that acute apendicitis still kills people there. I bet scarlet fever does, and diptheria, too. And malnutrition, and malaria, and dysentery. Children routinely die of everything that they die of, and they do so in wholesale lots in Cameroon. These people live on less than two dollars, US, per day. They don't have lightbulbs, never mind iron supplements, anti-helminth medication, toilet paper, toilets, shoes, soap or running water. You name it when it comes to nutrition, health care and hygiene, and they don't have it. Consequently, the dumbest shit kills them. Constantly. 47 looks pretty good, really.

    Here's the thing: we don't live there.

    Are you saying my prognosis is the same as a malnourished child with superstitious, uneducated parents who have absolutely zero access to health care? Who are subject to dozens of other diseases? Are you saying my life expectancy is now 47?

    I can make assumptions about the parasite's best interests. The longer the host lives with them inside the more little hookworms get produced, that is in their interests. It is a truism that parasites that kill their hosts, are, generally, less successful than those that do not. And the quicker they do it the truer that truism gets.

    One turn of the reproductive wheel ("you are expendable after your first stool?)  and its good? That is a ridiculous statement.

    A reference to Ebola, a gratuitous reference to Ebola. Isn't that a scare tactic, or does it just reflect your own fear? What are you? A Republican party strategist?

    3. Of course there is an immune response to hookworm, that is the whole point of this exercise.

    Finally, in a very real way, i do know what it does. It cured my asthma and my hay fever.

    Good night.

    [ Parent ]

    You don't know (3.00 / 2) (#184)
    by coward anonymous on Wed May 03, 2006 at 03:24:39 AM EST

    The basic point I'm getting at is that you have no idea what the long term effects of your hookworm infestation are. Not a clue. You are actively trying to peddle your cure to other people, you should at least caution them that you don't really know what you are doing long term.

    [ Parent ]
    Hookworm and it's long term effects (2.66 / 3) (#189)
    by nietsch on Wed May 03, 2006 at 07:33:18 AM EST

    You are right that he does not now exactly how  the hookworms might affect him. After all he may be a freak genetic oddity that is turned into superman by the hookworms. But he generally knows what he can expect, hookworm has been around and studied for a very long time. where do you think the life expectancy for hookworms comes from?
    Besides, long term effects are pretty hard to distinguish from age itself, isn't it?
    Third: please suppress your own fobias about dirt and feces, he got what he wanted, and it cured him from a lot of agony.  

    [ Parent ]
    thanks (none / 1) (#196)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Wed May 03, 2006 at 10:17:13 AM EST

    Finally, a voice of reason amongst all the germophobes.

    [ Parent ]
    Meaningless (3.00 / 2) (#202)
    by coward anonymous on Wed May 03, 2006 at 12:21:21 PM EST

    And yet nobody seems to have studied the long term effects of hookworm infestation in isolation.
    As to your irrelevant assertion regarding age, that could be said about anything, including birth control pills and public water systems, for instance.


    [ Parent ]
    so don't infect your stupid ass with hookworms (none / 1) (#212)
    by thankyougustad on Wed May 03, 2006 at 09:34:47 PM EST

    if you're so fucking worried about it. how can this story be anything but good? reading doesn't obligate your dumb ass to do as the author did, you can sit safely in your air conditioned computer room and sit coca-cola while you bitch and moan on the internet. meanwhile the author is spreading information that is at its best helpful and its worse interesting.

    No no thanks no
    Je n'aime que le bourbon
    no no thanks no
    c'est une affaire de goût.

    [ Parent ]
    You missed the range (none / 0) (#213)
    by coward anonymous on Wed May 03, 2006 at 10:28:58 PM EST

    The author is spreading information that is at its best helpful and at its worst dangerous while presenting it as perfectly safe. The truth is that he knows squat about its long term effects - hence squat about its safety.

    To give you a simple example. Smoking cigarettes for one week (or a month or even a year) will have a minimal, if any, effect on your longevity or your quality of life. Yet smoking cigarettes for 15-20 years will definitely shorten your life in a nasty way and predictable way.


    [ Parent ]

    smoking has nothing to do with this (none / 0) (#246)
    by thankyougustad on Fri May 05, 2006 at 03:29:48 PM EST

    I understand your metaphore but they just aren't the same thing. . . people have to be relied upon to make at least SOME decisions for themselves. Just presenting information and an account of a human experience can't be bad things. If some dumb redneck fucks himself up because of it, thats too bad, the author isn't responsable. He said it worked for him, and he's just telling how he did it. If you don't trust him, don't do it, it's really very simple.

    No no thanks no
    Je n'aime que le bourbon
    no no thanks no
    c'est une affaire de goût.

    [ Parent ]
    Worked for him for how long (none / 0) (#247)
    by coward anonymous on Fri May 05, 2006 at 04:36:52 PM EST

    He said it worked for him for all of less than a year. He should also state that he has no idea what could happen further on instead of making it sound perfectly safe when he does not know that to be true.

    My impression is he didn't think about the fact that what may seem safe in the short term may not be safe at all over time (as is the case with smoking, Vioxx and eating at McDonald's every day, to name a few popularly known examples)

    BTW it is not a metaphor.

    [ Parent ]

    figure it out yourself (none / 0) (#248)
    by thankyougustad on Fri May 05, 2006 at 08:29:19 PM EST

    he does not need to explicitly state that for you to come up with it on your own. Sometimes we expect adults to be able to draw their own conclusions. Once again the simple presentation of information is not a bad thing; what people choose to do with it might or might not be. BTW it is a metaphor.

    No no thanks no
    Je n'aime que le bourbon
    no no thanks no
    c'est une affaire de goût.

    [ Parent ]
    Definition of metaphor (none / 0) (#250)
    by coward anonymous on Fri May 05, 2006 at 09:58:55 PM EST

    If you can't look up the definition of a metaphor in a dictionary (cigarettes figurative for hookworms?) how can you be expected to form a balanced opinion given one-sided and very possibly factually incorrect information.

    1 : a figure of speech in which a word or phrase literally denoting one kind of object or idea is used in place of another to suggest a likeness or analogy between them (as in drowning in money)

    [ Parent ]

    semaphore (none / 0) (#251)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Fri May 05, 2006 at 11:53:02 PM EST

    K5 is to pedants as toilets are to turds.

    Kind of like that?

    [ Parent ]

    you stupid (none / 0) (#252)
    by thankyougustad on Sat May 06, 2006 at 01:39:17 PM EST

    your definition is exactly what you did. 1 : a figure of speech in which a word or phrase (Cigarettes) literally denoting one kind of object or idea is used in place of another (hookworms) to suggest a likeness or analogy between them (longterm health problems). Maybe the reason you didn't recognize it as metaphore is because it was so terribly off the mark.

    No no thanks no
    Je n'aime que le bourbon
    no no thanks no
    c'est une affaire de goût.

    [ Parent ]
    It's all about the $$$ (none / 0) (#254)
    by coward anonymous on Sat May 06, 2006 at 04:17:25 PM EST

    The author is not "spreading information" as you put it.
    The author is peddling/selling/pushing his snake oil at a cost of $500 a pop. If you can't see the conflict of interest there, then I suppose you wouldn't recognize a metaphor when you saw one...

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah, but thanks to him (none / 1) (#192)
    by tetsuwan on Wed May 03, 2006 at 09:36:29 AM EST

    we might know more about the long term effects. Do you remember how last year's Nobel prize in Medicine came about? I can tell you, it had one of the laureates infect himself with an overdose of the gut bacteria Helicobacter pylori. He waited several days until he got really ill, and then cured himself with penicillin. A brave medical scientist. Something I'm sure you will never understand.

    Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
    [ Parent ]

    well, no (2.50 / 2) (#200)
    by coward anonymous on Wed May 03, 2006 at 11:47:37 AM EST

    The good nobel laureate, infected himself for a short period of time with no intention of long term exposure after studying biopsies of 100 ulcer patients. In addition to the duration differences, we learn nothing from this one hookworm infestation. It is not statistically significant.

    [ Parent ]
    good job on not making a point. (2.00 / 2) (#201)
    by tetsuwan on Wed May 03, 2006 at 12:18:14 PM EST


    Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
    [ Parent ]

    long term effects (2.50 / 2) (#195)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Wed May 03, 2006 at 10:15:10 AM EST

    I know the effects of long term asthma though, and they include emphysema and "lung remodeling"

    Balance that against some possible unknown caused by a parasite I can eliminate in 48 hours if I decided I don't want it.

    [ Parent ]

    Either way... (2.80 / 10) (#120)
    by Smokin Juan on Mon May 01, 2006 at 10:42:21 PM EST

    If you're full of shit - good job. I was on the edge of my seat the whole read. It almost felt like I was standing beside you with a machette at my neck and shit oozing between my toes. What a rush!

    If it's true - good for you. I can't imagine having a condition that bothered me enough to do the research and follow through. Hope you get more out of it than just the cure.

    bonus points (3.00 / 7) (#125)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Tue May 02, 2006 at 02:07:30 AM EST

    I did get something out of it besides a cure. I got an entirely new perspective.

    Not just the experience of going to Africa for the first time and seeing the third world up close, that was intense by itself.

    The really transformative thing was to take such a risk, physical and social.

    By risking my life I experienced an intensity and a vibrancy like no other. I was often terrified while I was there, but every nerve ending quivered with electricity.

    But the most important part of the experience for me was stepping so far outside the bounds of "normal" and accepted behavior. It was very difficult for my rational mind to overcome my fear and revulsion, particularly my fear of ridicule.

    I truly, finally, I do not care what anyone thinks of me. That is liberating.

    [ Parent ]

    Excellent Article (2.33 / 6) (#121)
    by slashcart on Mon May 01, 2006 at 10:48:58 PM EST

    Not only was your article interesting, but the idea was eminently sensible. It makes sense to infect oneself with hookworm if the alternative is crippling autoimmune disease.

    If I acquire a serious autoimmune condition, or if my allergies greatly worsen, then I'll try it.

    Wow, hardcore (2.80 / 5) (#122)
    by localroger on Mon May 01, 2006 at 11:06:48 PM EST

    This is fascinating, but I doubt if you will have quite as many inquiries into your hookworm sources as I've had about my dentist.

    I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
    It scares me (3.00 / 4) (#238)
    by livus on Fri May 05, 2006 at 05:48:45 AM EST

    that you immediately associate catching infectious parasites in the third word with visiting your Mexican dentist.

    Is there something you forgot to tell us?

    ---
    HIREZ substitute.
    be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
    I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
    I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
    I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

    [ Parent ]

    Well (2.83 / 6) (#128)
    by ShooterNeo on Tue May 02, 2006 at 03:50:06 AM EST

    Perhaps the hookwork is actually a symbiote. Think about it. The limits on it's reproduction mean it is unlikely to harm anyone permanently, and if in the past 80% of the population at any given time had hookworm then people's immune systems would become tuned to only work properly WITH hookworm products in the blood. Basically, perhaps the sufferers of these autoimmune diseases actually have immune systems evolved to be the strongest when a parasite that nearly everyone used to have is present. This is an adaptive trait.

    A well adapted parasite (none / 1) (#139)
    by xC0000005 on Tue May 02, 2006 at 10:23:26 AM EST

    does not kill its host. The line between when a parasite becomes a symbiote is (I believe) fuzzy, as this article attests. Notably the violent coughing fits can't be a great thing, and the depressed immune system isn't great either, but he has found a way to live with a creature that would only harm other people. That is to be admired.

    Voice of the Hive - Beekeeping and Bees for those who don't
    [ Parent ]
    Well (none / 1) (#172)
    by ShooterNeo on Tue May 02, 2006 at 07:14:26 PM EST

    A fuzzy line it may be, but I am willing to be the coughing fits beat not being able to breathe.  Or the horrible pain and smell of the shits you get with ulcerative collitus.

    [ Parent ]
    Guinea worm (2.80 / 5) (#132)
    by jtra on Tue May 02, 2006 at 05:22:14 AM EST

    Not all worms are that useful, I have read this few weeks ago. It is about very dangerous worm. http://www.exile.ru/2003-March-20/prince_of_parasites_the_guinea_worm.html

    --Get textmode user interface for Ruby, http://klokan.sh.cvut.cz/~jtra/

    Nicely told. But don't date my daughter. NT (2.87 / 8) (#133)
    by RandomAction on Tue May 02, 2006 at 07:34:37 AM EST



    Dust mite allergy? (2.60 / 5) (#134)
    by anonimouse on Tue May 02, 2006 at 09:02:32 AM EST

    Some people recommend replacing carpets (with wooden floors) and bedding in your home before you go that far.
    ~
    Sleepyhel:
    Relationships and friendships are complex beasts. There's nothing wrong with doing things a little differently.
    very droll (2.50 / 2) (#137)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Tue May 02, 2006 at 10:08:37 AM EST

    But in case you are serious, my house is hardwood floors and linoleum throughout, no central heating, no pets, etc., etc.,

    [ Parent ]
    And I recommend letting your children play outside (none / 1) (#187)
    by nietsch on Wed May 03, 2006 at 07:01:04 AM EST

    And get dirty all over. Living ultra clean will only make things worse, if you accept the clean hypothesis. Yes, it's not much more than a hypothesis, but so is the oldfashioned dogma that clean == healthy. That will be probaly such a shock to you that you will dismiss is out of hand.

    [ Parent ]
    But we're never gonna survive, unless (2.66 / 3) (#135)
    by killmepleez on Tue May 02, 2006 at 09:29:55 AM EST

    You are totally and inconceivably insane to have followed the method you describe.

    I love this story -- one of the most entertaining and informative on K5 in a very long time.

    __
    "I instantly realized that everything in my life that I thought was unfixable was totally fixable - except for having just jumped."
    --from "J
    Okay James Frey, I don't buy your story because... (2.85 / 7) (#141)
    by zori3 on Tue May 02, 2006 at 11:00:33 AM EST

    The academic and journalism articles are pretty fascinating, and I'm completely willing to believe that the selective use of worms to treat various diseases can be effective. However, I'm having a hard time believing your story. Here's why: 1.) A health insurance company would not deny you coverage for having asthma, even if it was adult-onset asthma. It's considered a "pre-existing condition" and doesn't offer the kind of expense that would cause an insurance company to cancel your policy. Most insurance companies have a $2M per patient cap, and you could not have exceeded that with asthma medication. I recommend that you post the name of the insurance company that denied you coverage as part of your article to increase the believability of this claim. 3.) You state that the only place you could find that had a high output of hookworms was Cameroon. On the articles you link, the country most frequently mentioned is Ethiopia. If you add something about why you chose *not* to go to Ethiopia, more believable. 4.) While you state that you "don't have asthma anymore" you don't explain what that looks like. No wheezing? No more closure of air passages? Much of what you describe sounds more like a problem with mucus than asthma as it is. It also wouldn't hurt if you offered some detail of all the other methods that you tried before resulting to this, especially since naturopaths and chinese medicine practitioners have been curing asthma, in particular in children, for years without using worms. While I personally don't believe you, I'm in favor of you making your story more convincing to either: a.) convince me, or b.) think you're a great trickster.

    Had to look up who James Frey is (2.80 / 5) (#143)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Tue May 02, 2006 at 11:33:53 AM EST

    That wasn't a very nice comparison, was it?

    To answer your points:

    1. Insurance: You are right, they can't deny a prexisting condition if one stays with the same insurance company. I was not able to, and in a change, or attempted change, I was denied because of my visits to the ER. Ask any long term asthmatic, particularly a self-employed one, about medical insurance in the USA and you will find that the ones who have medical insurance have been with the same carrier since before onset, or they are on a spouse's coverage.
    2. Ethiopia: As I state in the article, the only country that has been mapped for hookworm distribution is Cameroon. That is why I went. All of the tropics would have been equally good to go to, there have been studies in the Caribbean (closer, less dangerous and cheaper), Central and South America (closer and less dangerous and cheaper) as well as other parts of Africa. But, none have been mapped.
    3. Having had asthma for almost ten years I know when I don't have it. No wheeze, can climb stairs without gasping, can run again, can fuck any day of the year.
    4. Alternative medicine: I tried a few things that did not work, Naturopathy and Chinese herbs. But besides the fact that nothing I tried worked that approach does not appeal to me. I need more than the placebo effect as a mechanism for a cure. The clean hypothesis appealed to me because it makes a lot of sense to me. Besides, my asthma was severe.
    Anyone on K5 who has had chronic asthma knows how terrifyng and horrible a bad attack is, and what a total life destroying drag chronic asthma that does not respond to treatment is. Going to Africa to walk in some shit, especially after one has done as much research in advance and has taken all precautions, isn't really that crazy.

    I felt like I had two choices. Do nothing and spend the rest of my life living in a very limited way or go to Africa. Waiting ten years for them to come up with a cure was not an option.


    [ Parent ]

    well, still wrong (3.00 / 3) (#152)
    by zori3 on Tue May 02, 2006 at 03:25:11 PM EST

    I have asthma. I've had in since I was 9. I have not found a "cure" for it, and for these reasons this story interests me. However, I've changed insurance, been without insurance, re-applied for insurance, been self-employed, etc., and I've never had a problem with insurance companies, or even been questioned about my emergency room record. So your response of:"Insurance: You are right, they can't deny a prexisting condition if one stays with the same insurance company. I was not able to, and in a change, or attempted change, I was denied because of my visits to the ER. Ask any long term asthmatic, particularly a self-employed one, about medical insurance in the USA and you will find that the ones who have medical insurance have been with the same carrier since before onset, or they are on a spouse's coverage," is officially false. If you are being denied insurance, perhaps it's because of smoking history or obesity instead. As far as #2 goes: the very first article you link maps hookworm distribution to Ethiopia. I don't think going to Africa to walk in shit is probably less crazy than letting a doctor you've just met cut you open and root around in your internal organs, for example. I applaud your willingness to submit yourself for experimentation. However, I think your use of absolutes in areas where absolutes do not apply (insurance in particular) flaws your story and makes your an unreliable narrator.

    [ Parent ]
    So far luckbeaweirdo has the edge (2.75 / 4) (#153)
    by localroger on Tue May 02, 2006 at 03:59:55 PM EST

    ...in believability here. Self-employed people are regularly denied insurance coverage for reasons far more trivial than a long history of ER visits for asthma. I can easily believe that lbaw was denied or quoted impossible rates (e.g. $1200/month, an actual figure my wife was once quoted for an individual policy) given his stated history. Meanwhile, you slide over your own history -- please detail the "been self-employed" part, exactly who did you have insurance with during that period and what did you report to them as far as pre-existing conditions?

    I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
    [ Parent ]
    The self employed (3.00 / 2) (#154)
    by xC0000005 on Tue May 02, 2006 at 04:30:02 PM EST

    are effectively in a pool of "1", which means they get hosed quite badly in the rates department.  That's the good case.  The bad case?  Pooling the self employed with his family (assume a breeder like myself, Wife & kids).  Now he's in a pool of 6, with five of them in a range that is typically bad for insurance claims.

    Spent hours talking this over with an actuary to understand why insurance companies pay less to labs, etc.

    Voice of the Hive - Beekeeping and Bees for those who don't
    [ Parent ]

    the point is moot gentlemen (2.50 / 2) (#159)
    by lolwhatboy on Tue May 02, 2006 at 05:10:32 PM EST

    wormboy gave his number out in a previous post. he lives in the uk. socialized medicine anyone?

    he can take the worms out of his ass now and get treated like a sane person.


    [ Parent ]

    number in previous post (2.66 / 3) (#162)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Tue May 02, 2006 at 05:22:51 PM EST

    "wormboy" here.

    In that post I made reference to my "many" telephone numbers.

    In an age of VoIP a telephone number tells you nothing about the location of the handset or Macintosh of the person using the number.

    doh

    [ Parent ]

    wormster (2.25 / 4) (#163)
    by lolwhatboy on Tue May 02, 2006 at 05:39:32 PM EST

    just let it go man. you're harvesting worm eggs from your feces and sprinkling it in your backyard where you go walk bear foot the next day.

    stop being a bozo.

    [ Parent ]

    That isn't how I do it you clown (3.00 / 4) (#166)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:06:18 PM EST

    If you read the article you would know I do it in a container, I don't walk in my shit.

    I use a bilayered fabric to harvest the larva so that I never have to come into contact with my feces. NEVER.

    No one has to touch shit using my methods if they know a resevoir of hookworm like me.

    I don't have a bear's feet, were I to take my shoes off you would see that I was barefoot.

    [ Parent ]

    ZING! (none / 1) (#183)
    by tetsuwan on Wed May 03, 2006 at 02:46:55 AM EST


    Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
    [ Parent ]

    self-employed (3.00 / 4) (#161)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Tue May 02, 2006 at 05:16:36 PM EST

    I have been a sole-proprietor for the past fifteen years, with a hiatus in the middle of three years when I owned a small corporation employing around (it varied) 30 people. During that period I was a member of a group and had coverage.

    When the shit hit the fan during the dot com collapse my business went down with the rest. No employees, no group, change of policy, coverage effectively denied. $1800/month (I have children too) in premiums was too much for me.

    [ Parent ]

    *ahem* (none / 1) (#205)
    by zori3 on Wed May 03, 2006 at 02:23:09 PM EST

    "As a general proposition, insurers and plans cannot cancel an individual's coverage under a policy or plan arbitrarily. In addition, federal and state laws prohibit discrimination based upon race, national origin, gender or age. Some states have been proactive, as well, in the area of discrimination involving particular medical conditions or traits. For instance, some states prohibit insurers and plans from denying health care coverage to, or canceling health care coverage of, persons with mental dementia (such as Alzheimer's disease) or human immunosuppressive virus (HIV) or mental illness.

    Health care insurance policies or plans can be canceled (rescinded) if there is a material omissions or misrepresentations made by the insured or member in the application for coverage. Recession, in general, works as follows: when you apply for insurance and sign an application, you answer questions and provide information about the medical history of anyone who will be covered under the policy or plan. In doing so, you must reveal any serious medical condition or treatment that might reasonably affect the decision by the insurer or plan to undertake the risk associated with providing the coverage.

    Even if the policy or plan is issued and premiums are paid, the insurer or plan can cancel or rescind the policy later if they discover that the policyholder or insured did not disclose in the application significant medical history. The result is that the insurer or plan does not pay for the care that was rendered, the policy is canceled and the premiums that were paid on the policy are returned to the policyholder less a reasonable cost of insurance associated with the period of time during which the policy was in force.

    A limited form of cancellation can occur involving reduction or elimination of benefits. Other than a requirement of reasonable notice, insurers and plans may reduce or eliminate benefits, unless the contract or plan prohibits it or limits it. In some states there is a major exception known as "vesting," which means that if the insured or member already has a claim or has received benefits for a particular injury or illness, they may continue to receive the benefit even if it is otherwise canceled." From the following website: http://law.freeadvice.com/insurance_law/health_insurance/healt_insurance_cancel_ policy.htm

    [ Parent ]

    Dude, what planet are you from? (3.00 / 4) (#209)
    by localroger on Wed May 03, 2006 at 09:02:29 PM EST

    As a general rule, you can lose your insurance coverage because your group plan ceases to exist aka your company goes out of business, or because you lose your connection to the group, aka your job. You can then be denied coverage or quoted totally ridiculous rates for reasons so trivial they defy belief. Happens every day.

    I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
    [ Parent ]
    once again... (none / 0) (#235)
    by zori3 on Fri May 05, 2006 at 02:43:44 AM EST

    the quote from the article reads as follows:

    "Soon I was denied health insurance and so now I had the added burden of paying for all my medical care."

    He later explains that this was the result of high medical bills born from emergency room visits. This is what I don't buy. And, as I mentioned before, if the insurance portion is a facual account, than naming the insurance company that denied his claims/cancelled his policy should be no problem. Then, as readers, we have statement supported by documented fact - and the insurance company gets to look bad, to boot.

    [ Parent ]

    In comments (3.00 / 2) (#241)
    by localroger on Fri May 05, 2006 at 08:42:17 AM EST

    ...the author said that he was self-employed for a period. This fully explains why his coverage was interrupted.

    Your eagerness to provide cover for the insurance industry, on the other hand, comes off as totally bizarre.

    I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
    [ Parent ]

    Please pay attention. (none / 1) (#215)
    by vectro on Thu May 04, 2006 at 12:35:19 AM EST

    Nobody (except you) is talking about cancellation here; we're talking about getting a new policy.

    Everyone agrees that if you have insurance you can probably keep it, but if you lose your insurance (due to, e.g., losing your job), then you have to apply for new insurance, which new insurer most certainly can deny you coverage based on preexisting conditions. In fact, my father happens to be in exactly this situation: Every insurer he applies to either denies him coverage, or quotes an outrageous rate.

    “The problem with that definition is just that it's bullshit.” -- localroger
    [ Parent ]

    who are you addressing? (none / 0) (#234)
    by zori3 on Fri May 05, 2006 at 02:39:12 AM EST

    The quote from the article is as follows:

    "Soon I was denied health insurance and so now I had the added burden of paying for all my medical care."

    He doesn't say that he was seeking a new policy. That's your inference. I'm addressing the author of the article, and disputing his claim that, if his insurance was cancelled, that it was because of asthma.

    [ Parent ]

    Insurance denial (none / 1) (#244)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Fri May 05, 2006 at 01:09:39 PM EST

    I posted this in another thread somewhere here.

    I owned a small company in Silicon Valley. I had 32 employees, a group for insurance purposes. My carrier was PacifiCare.

    When my business went down the tubes and I laid off the last employee my carrier terminated my policy, I no longer had a group. They offered me another policy (basic coverage, catastrophic), after a review of my health history, for $1800.00 (approximately and from memory) a month. See reference above to economic decline. This to me was effective denial, and far easier to write as such instead of some long winded explanation for the pedants in my audience.

    My asthma treatments did not amount to this much (1800 x 12 = 21,600) over a year, even with the ER visits, so I did not take up their generous offer.

    Enough detail?

    [ Parent ]

    OK (3.00 / 3) (#160)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Tue May 02, 2006 at 05:12:39 PM EST

    Apologies for my use of absolutes, I should have made clear that I was relating my experiences.

    I have to admit to having felt defensive when responding, too. It affected my tone, I was more strident that I would ordinarily have been.

    I was responding to an accusation of dishonesty. I am not dishonest, this story is true, and all the experiences I have related are my own.

    [ Parent ]

    academentia on K5 (2.80 / 5) (#204)
    by zori3 on Wed May 03, 2006 at 02:10:14 PM EST

    My academic and employment background is in nonfiction writing (from journalism to teaching the subject of a graduate level), and of utmost import in constructing a solid nonfiction piece (whether it be journalism, paper construction, or memoir) is reliability of the narrator. Second is ability to anticipate questions and criticism that might come from readers, and answer those criticisms and questions before they are spoken.

    *Lots* of nonfiction writers are getting checked (and appropriately so) right now for failing to adequately support personal facts. I would not have doubted your insurance statement if you had written instead, "Tom Jones Insurance Barn cancelled my policy, stating that blah blah blah." If your insurance being cancelled is a true statement, and Tom Jones Insurance Barn was, in fact, your provider, you are entitled to name them - and you should. It ups your believability. It would also further prove your case if you located some statistics which support statements about insurance difficulties. I might have been convinced that my happy insurance history is unique if you had written, "According to longitudinal research, 25% if asthmatics have insurance policies cancelled due to blah blah blah" and then cited the source. I'm a source slut.

    While I understand reacting defensively to accusations of dishonesty, I think any writer of nonfiction can avoid (most of) this with thorough representation. Sure, this is just K5, but I think the level of interest you've generated demonstrates that it might be worthwhile to turn this into a publishable article. Before you do that, however, you have to be willing to list *everything* you tried, your weight and overall physical health before you hit Cameroon, and the negative side effects you may have experienced as a result of this decision.

    [ Parent ]

    good points (2.75 / 4) (#206)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Wed May 03, 2006 at 02:46:37 PM EST

    I have thought about going for a published article, although I am probably too lazy. If I do I will make use of this and many of the other suggestions given on K5.

    thanks.

    [ Parent ]

    good to hear (2.50 / 2) (#236)
    by zori3 on Fri May 05, 2006 at 02:48:56 AM EST

    I'm glad I wasn't wasting my breath. You seem to be racking up a pretty even mix of 1.) thoughtful comments 2.) the worm equivalent of fart jokes 3.) insights from people who read the "Walking in poop" part and then immediately skipped to the comments section. Yikes.

    [ Parent ]
    Accurate (none / 1) (#260)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Mon May 08, 2006 at 01:01:59 AM EST

    That sounds like the breakdown, but the people who's brains freeze up at the walking in shit part make a stronger impression because they are more strident and insistent.

    thanks

    [ Parent ]

    This is definitely worth money. (none / 1) (#266)
    by Russell Dovey on Tue May 09, 2006 at 04:26:06 AM EST

    This is a dynamite article. Properly substantiate everything like the guy said and start submitting it around the place, you've got a very unique story to tell.

    "Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light." - Spike Milligan
    [ Parent ]

    It's ok to fear the worm! (1.00 / 7) (#145)
    by MrPeach on Tue May 02, 2006 at 11:39:42 AM EST

    C'mon kiddies gather round. who's your foremost friend in town?
    From main to maple the name resounds, professor nutbutter.
    He's the one, the humble one, the barkley county prodigal son.
    Here to serve only you, professor nutbutter.
    At old nutbutter's house of treats from jellied jams to sacks of Sweets,
    There's creamy and nutatious spreads for all.
    Chemist, master of entomology the professor for a modest fee
    Will cure what ails you, guaranteed professor nutbutter.
    It's alright, don't fear the worm.
    C'mon kiddies don't be shy be youthful til the day you die.
    The man the myth, the magic of professor nutbutter.
    He's the one the only one the meeklybville prodigal son.
    Here to help us with ourselves, professor nutbutter
    It's alright to fear the worm.

    [it's all right to fear the worm. the worm, the worm is our friend.
    Um, but not all of the properties of the worm can be, uh, fully,
    Fully, well, appreciated by the, uh, the human body itself, but, um
    It's, it's, it's, it's ok to, to fear the worm. um, i, myself, have
    Had no, uh, problems with the worm but in a certain situation, uh, i
    Would feel like, what, what, uh, ramifications, um, could occur? uh,
    There's, there's really no need to, uh, to fear much of anything, you
    Know. fear of the, fear of the temptation is a, more, probably, more,
    More, appropriate word in this particular scenario. um, the, uh,
    Well, it, depends on what you want, I suppose. it really depends on,
    On what you want.]



    this story ROCKS (2.37 / 8) (#147)
    by CodeWright on Tue May 02, 2006 at 12:15:24 PM EST

    symbiosis FTW.

    --
    A: Because it destroys the flow of conversation.
    Q: Why is top posting dumb? --clover_kicker

    Sry, I've changed my mind (1.71 / 7) (#155)
    by kbudha on Tue May 02, 2006 at 04:41:12 PM EST

    You're fucking gross man.

    Please keep your wormy ass away from me.
    .

    I had no idea (2.00 / 2) (#165)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Tue May 02, 2006 at 05:59:41 PM EST

    that my wormy ass was anywhere near you.

    [ Parent ]
    question (none / 0) (#169)
    by kbudha on Tue May 02, 2006 at 06:49:32 PM EST

    How many ppl do you tell about this without the privacy of k5

    [ Parent ]
    quite a few (none / 1) (#176)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Tue May 02, 2006 at 08:19:32 PM EST

    I have told my entire family and all my friends, plenty of strangers, and I am giving a speech on it soon at my local ToastMasters club.

    Oprah next.

    [ Parent ]

    I'm sure (2.50 / 2) (#190)
    by kbudha on Wed May 03, 2006 at 08:14:15 AM EST

    Don't act surprised when ppl respond to you with revulsion.

    [ Parent ]
    never surprised (2.75 / 4) (#203)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Wed May 03, 2006 at 12:54:26 PM EST

    I really am not, but I am disappointed when people use weak arguments to articulate their revulsion, pretending it has some basis in reason. That their revulsion is based on concern for public health for instance.


    [ Parent ]
    point of view (none / 1) (#207)
    by kbudha on Wed May 03, 2006 at 02:56:48 PM EST

    Perhaps their revulsion is based in their wanting to not share your parasites.

    [ Parent ]
    where'd you come up with that conclusion sherlock? (none / 0) (#211)
    by thankyougustad on Wed May 03, 2006 at 09:27:25 PM EST



    No no thanks no
    Je n'aime que le bourbon
    no no thanks no
    c'est une affaire de goût.

    [ Parent ]
    already had it (none / 0) (#220)
    by kbudha on Thu May 04, 2006 at 08:41:02 AM EST

    Just felt like explaining it, considering he doesn't have a clue why ppl would be disgusted.

    [ Parent ]
    clue for you (none / 1) (#221)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Thu May 04, 2006 at 09:34:44 AM EST

    I know why people would be disgusted, I just don't understand why people who are disgusted can't recognize the impact it has on their ability to reason.

    [ Parent ]
    Reason only goes so far buddy (none / 0) (#225)
    by kbudha on Thu May 04, 2006 at 10:58:21 AM EST



    [ Parent ]
    obviously. (none / 0) (#226)
    by tetsuwan on Thu May 04, 2006 at 11:23:10 AM EST


    Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
    [ Parent ]

    Not a mention of dick-sucking (1.50 / 2) (#229)
    by kbudha on Thu May 04, 2006 at 01:39:24 PM EST

    Guess no one was talking to you.
    Mind your own beeeez-nes.

    [ Parent ]
    "mind my own business" (none / 0) (#230)
    by tetsuwan on Thu May 04, 2006 at 02:39:49 PM EST

    on K5?

    R U A REEETARD?

    Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
    [ Parent ]

    someone plz shut him up (1.50 / 2) (#232)
    by kbudha on Thu May 04, 2006 at 02:47:06 PM EST

    I'd do it myself but my zipper is up.

    [ Parent ]
    Really? Try this book: (none / 1) (#239)
    by livus on Fri May 05, 2006 at 05:52:43 AM EST

    The Anatomy Of Disgust, William Ian Miller.

    ---
    HIREZ substitute.
    be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
    I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
    I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
    I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

    [ Parent ]
    HIV (1.23 / 13) (#156)
    by signal15 on Tue May 02, 2006 at 04:43:30 PM EST

    The dumbest part of this story is went walking around in shit and who knows what else in a country where 33% of the adult population has HIV. Maybe his asthma went away because HIV is killing his immune system instead. What a dumbass.

    Facts about HIV, not opinions (2.87 / 8) (#164)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Tue May 02, 2006 at 05:58:14 PM EST

    HIV is a fragile virus that does not survive long at all outside the body. It is very sensitive to heat, light and aridity.

    CDC re HIV survival outside the body

    And from a SA health website talking about HIV transmission in general, and the survival of HI virus outside the body and body fluids, a quote:

    "For how long can the virus survive outside the body?
    We should distinguish between the lifespan of HIV when

    It is outside the body and outside body fluids, and
    When it is outside the body but still present in body fluids like blood.

    As soon as the HI virus is no longer in the context of a body fluid, it is extremely fragile or weak - especially when it is exposed to oxygen, heat and dryness in the atmosphere.

    While HIV cannot survive outside body fluids for very long, it can probably live outside the body for many hours if it is body fluid like blood, or fluids containing blood.

    Body fluid spills should always be handled with extreme care. Wear latex gloves, flood the spillage with a 1:10 solution of household bleach (e.g. Jik) and water, and clean with disposable paper cloths."

    I was more worried about Hepatitis even though I had been vaccinated. No vaccine offers 100% protection.

    The CDC does not list excrement as an HI virus bearing medium in the page referenced above, and the SA page makes it clear that blood is the one to worry about.


    [ Parent ]

    Unless you have bloody excrement... (none / 1) (#214)
    by coward anonymous on Thu May 04, 2006 at 12:30:09 AM EST

    As has been previously mentioned, one of the possible symptoms of hookworm infestation is bloody excrement. It could be partially digested blood but it may still be viable for HIV (I don't know). Contact with blood in this case (depending on the duration and method of sloshing) would not be entirely out of the question.


    [ Parent ]
    Ok (none / 1) (#216)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Thu May 04, 2006 at 01:24:33 AM EST

    You are right, the possibility must exist for transmission via this route. But since even in blood it is only viable for a few hours outside the body it is a pretty narrow window.'

    In the context of all the other things I risked, not a big deal.

    To me.

    [ Parent ]

    time for an hiv test? (none / 0) (#219)
    by lolwhatboy on Thu May 04, 2006 at 06:25:55 AM EST

    srsly.


    [ Parent ]
    six months (none / 1) (#222)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Thu May 04, 2006 at 09:39:17 AM EST

    Sure I did, I got tested for everything else after I got back, what did you expect?

    Negative, by the way.

    [ Parent ]

    Wow you're stupid $ (none / 1) (#198)
    by nebbish on Wed May 03, 2006 at 11:28:41 AM EST


    ---------
    Kicking someone in the head is like punching them in the foot - Bruce Lee
    [ Parent ]

    stoopid (none / 1) (#218)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Thu May 04, 2006 at 03:01:42 AM EST

    Intemperate, careless, reckless, crazy, cavalier, daring, foolish, foolhardy... perhaps.

    Stupid, definitely not.

    You are all worrying about what might have happened.

    You live once, so get out there and get busy.

    The only things I regret in my life are those things I didn't do. The girls I didn't ask out, the property I didn't buy, the journeys I never made.

    When my time comes I am going to be comfortable knowing I gave it my all.

    Are you going to be able to say that, smart guy?

    [ Parent ]

    my cousin got AIDS (3.00 / 8) (#210)
    by thankyougustad on Wed May 03, 2006 at 09:26:08 PM EST

    from sitting on a toilet in a public restroom at the NASCAR track.

    No no thanks no
    Je n'aime que le bourbon
    no no thanks no
    c'est une affaire de goût.

    [ Parent ]
    that was genius (none / 0) (#217)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Thu May 04, 2006 at 02:51:13 AM EST



    [ Parent ]
    Amusing (2.71 / 7) (#175)
    by ShooterNeo on Tue May 02, 2006 at 07:43:34 PM EST

    What I think is amusing is all the stupid people on here having a reaction.  The parasite down-regulating specific immune responses, ESPECIALLY in the lungs and intestine (if the person has ulcerative collitis, the worms would get knocked loose) is entirely plausible, though I think many of us here would like it if you were to subject yourself to some sort of definitive test for asthma.

    But....have those trolls ever done anything considered clean like, say, have sex?  Or worse, kiss a girl on the mouth?  Just because she smells clean down there doesn't mean that vagina isn't loaded with bacteria, including some that are found in the intestines.  Never mind the sort of stuff found in the vagina of a slutty 'hot' chick typically found in school.  (diseases, infections, stuff from the guy she fucked behind your back)

    And don't get me started on the mouth.  Brushing your teeth may get the chunks out and toothpaste or gum may mask the odor but that doesn't make it any less of a human sewer of bacteria.  

    And the ignorance of the people about the worms lifestyle is also astounding.  The worms need days to hatch, they won't make it if your shit dries in an indoor or cold environment.  Basically, you can't spread it to anyone : taking a crap anywhere won't spread it either, because any toilet goes to a sewer plant or holding tank where the worms will die long before the stuff might ever reach humans again (through water recycling or farm use of sludge)

    A porta-potty like when you go camping or being messy in the bathroom MIGHT spread a few worms to someone, but the odds are low.

    Gee I hope that anyone else who tries this method gets those nice clean sheets of parasite like you describe.  Can you see the creatures with the naked eye?  I would imagine an organism capable of going through dirt would be big enough to be seen.

    stage one larva are invisible to the naked eye (none / 1) (#199)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Wed May 03, 2006 at 11:39:49 AM EST



    [ Parent ]
    fascinating! (2.50 / 4) (#178)
    by cibby on Tue May 02, 2006 at 10:03:37 PM EST

    I thought it was a great article; interesting to read and informative.

    It reminds me of that Futurama episode where Fry gets worms, and they make him stronger and smarter...

    pandering and worse. (1.47 / 19) (#186)
    by wh0me on Wed May 03, 2006 at 03:55:54 AM EST

    The spirit, content, verily, the soul of this article is one of the best arguments against libertarianism I have ever read.

    Who wrote this? Why did he write it? How much of this is true? Who does this appeal to?

    I only know the answer to the last question: the weak. The desperate. The mother wondering if this big-pharma-conspiracy-induced jesus-how-could-web-2.0-go-so-wrong bad-internet-trip could actually help her kid, hacking up a lung in the other room. Just maybe her risking life and limb on a trip to darkest Shangrila to wallow in some excrement from her fellow man will stop the suffering of the one she loves. "It worked for him, maybe it'll work for my baby!"

    Yeah, and maybe a trip to a fucking doctor would. Or, maybe not listening to the ravings of some dude who thinks coughing-till-ya-puke 4 times a year after rubbing a piece of plastic dipped in your own shit, as opposed to breathing excercises, a healthy lifestle, and doing what it takes stay on your meds as prescribed, is a devil's bargain everyone should be willing to make.

    And maybe it's that we all wash our hands too many times, and maybe it isn't that parasites generally depress your immune system, so in addition to the coughing, you're essentially chronically immunosupressant. As if that's a positive thing for your life expectancy, but of course, you know everyone who's carrying TB and you can stay away from them...

    because...

    this guy obviously never rides the bus.

    Ignorance is bliss... (2.50 / 2) (#253)
    by localman on Sat May 06, 2006 at 03:38:59 PM EST

    Yeah, and maybe a trip to a fucking doctor would.

    Obviously you've never dealt with these kinds of illnesses.  I've had broken bones: and doctors are great for that.  I've had well-understood bacterial infections, and doctors are great for that. I've also had these mystery conditions that doctors can do nothing about, and they admit it.

    My sister had chronic hives (an autoimmune disease) for years, and they doctors said outright they couldn't do anything about it except, as the article suggests, load you with prednisone which a) barely works at all and b) has awful side effects.  Her lifestyle was healthy, according to the doctors.  And some increased "healthy" measures (like extra exercise) actually made it worse.   Eventually it went away... no rhyme or reason that we could see.  For all I know, she picked up some missing type of intestinal flora.  Who knows?  Certainly not the medical world.

    One of my unmanagable skin condition (major acne on my back) have improved dramatically since I stopped using soap, and just take a water shower.

    There are many things that modern medicine knows nothing about.  I applaud this guy's guts in trying something so crazy.

    Cheers.

    [ Parent ]

    pig hookworms? (2.83 / 6) (#188)
    by nietsch on Wed May 03, 2006 at 07:04:51 AM EST

    I believe one of the studies mentioned used pig hookworms, so that there would be no chance of a long term infection and it would not be contagious at all. Maybe contacting a veterinarian for help to obtain these would have been easier than travelling to cameroon. At least you have a sustainable method now, I suspect with pig hookworm you would have needed to keep a pig for your supply of larvae.
    Will you be starting a side business to distribute your infective patches to other astma sufferers?

    company proposed selling this already (3.00 / 3) (#197)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Wed May 03, 2006 at 10:24:49 AM EST

    I read an article about two years ago about a German company proposing to do just this, packaging sterile pig hookworm larvae in a gelatinous drink and selling it in bi monthly doses to people like me.

    $1,500 per month I believe is what they were proposing to charge.

    My African adventure cost me $5K, or three months and change under this regimen.

    [ Parent ]

    And I just got back from Sweden... (1.00 / 6) (#191)
    by jforan on Wed May 03, 2006 at 09:04:51 AM EST

    Won't you Help me with my ruksack?

    Jeff

    I hops to be barley workin'.

    I think this is great (2.00 / 2) (#193)
    by tetsuwan on Wed May 03, 2006 at 09:42:08 AM EST

    This adventure may be spurious anecdotal evidence, but Barry J. Marshall springs to mind. Brave and desperate.

    Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance

    Next article (2.87 / 8) (#194)
    by Big Sexxy Joe on Wed May 03, 2006 at 09:53:06 AM EST

    Next article:  How to cure your K5 addiction by losing your virginity.

    I'm like Jesus, only better.
    Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free grassroots news hour
    And... (2.33 / 6) (#208)
    by The Amazing Idiot on Wed May 03, 2006 at 06:36:15 PM EST

    For many people, the bacteria living inside your gut is all the culture some people have.

     (saw on a poster in a biology lab room)

    sexually active? (2.00 / 6) (#224)
    by lolwhatboy on Thu May 04, 2006 at 10:39:58 AM EST

    are you? the reason i ask is you seem so "responsible" that you must have told your partner(s). how did they react, wormster?


    is that the best you can do? (2.00 / 3) (#233)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Thu May 04, 2006 at 10:24:31 PM EST

    Like you give a shit about my answer, go lose your virginity like Big Sexxy Joe suggests.

    [ Parent ]
    ok (2.00 / 2) (#242)
    by lolwhatboy on Fri May 05, 2006 at 09:03:00 AM EST

    im not out to ridicule you anymore, despite my previous comments. i was just curious how this was handled since it's such a stigma.

    other than that i hope you don't make a business out of this. the long term effects, or side effects you haven't encountered, may be disasterous to others.


    [ Parent ]

    Flame free (2.66 / 3) (#245)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Fri May 05, 2006 at 01:29:32 PM EST

    I have really worked hard to approach this whole project with as much information and knowledge as I can, and as dispassionately as I could. I was repulsed by the idea to start and the part of me concerned with other people's opinions was not a happy camper.

    I would not have undertaken this if I thought, having read as widely as I have about hookworm, that it was likely that I would infect anyone else, that such an infection might lead to an epidemic, or if I thought that infection might harm others.

    Everything I read indicates to me that transmission in the temperate climate and clean conditions of the west would be so unlikely as to prevent an epidemic, were it to occur. As well, any accidental infection would not lead to any symptoms or disease for the host.

    As to helping others get infested, of course I will if they ask me.

    I am exceptional no matter what some might say in the post. But only in terms of my willingness to accept risk. In this case that I might catch other diseases while in Cameroon. Others who would really like to try this will not be willing to do what I did, and with good reason. Cameroon scared the fuck out of me.

    If someone does want my help I have found an entirely sterile method of infection using larva, I use this method to keep my infestation level where I need it. No contact with excrement required. No sight or smell of excrement required.

    Why wouldn't I help someone who is in the position I was, with a life destroyed by autoimmune disease?

    Worst case it doesn't work for them and they take Albendazole for a couple of days.

    [ Parent ]

    Great article (2.66 / 3) (#240)
    by livus on Fri May 05, 2006 at 05:58:03 AM EST

    and if you do turn out to have elephantiasis, you can always do more research into finding some revolutionary way of killing the wolbachia inside the filarial nematodes that cause it.

    Getting rid of a parasite by killing its parasite - has a nice irony to it given what you've just described.

    ---
    HIREZ substitute.
    be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
    I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
    I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
    I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

    Wow! (2.00 / 3) (#243)
    by Another on Fri May 05, 2006 at 11:23:49 AM EST

    Amazing story. The courage required to pull off something like that is almost mind-blowing, no matter the amount of desperation you experienced. You're right, this is definitely not for everyone.

    They say that when you come up against some difficulty, big or small, you either have to find a way to accept it and work with it, or you must remove yourself from it completely, give it everything you have and resolve it. Anything else is madness -- meaningless and unproductive. Obviously, most people are mad. You may be too, but at least you have some mighty fine madness going there, my friend.

    Lyall Watson did something similar (2.75 / 4) (#249)
    by harrystottle on Fri May 05, 2006 at 08:42:34 PM EST

    Frustratingly, I can't find an online reference and I no longer own the books. Can't even remember whether it was Supernature or The Romeo Error, but in one of them he describes how he prepared for a year in India by swallowing a tapeworm egg and using it to keep him disease free for his 12 months or so.

    I'm into research and self treatment, but even Watson's tapeworm was enough to make me squirm. I think I'd have to be suffering near terminal asthma, crohns disease et al before I'd even contemplate that kind of self treatment. Having said that, I've lost 3 friends all below the age of 35 to asthma, so I appreciate it can be pretty serious.

    Excellent article btw. The sort of thing that makes K5 worth visiting from time to time

    Mostly harmless

    Best article in a long time (1.50 / 2) (#255)
    by debolaz on Sat May 06, 2006 at 06:18:52 PM EST

    This is definitly the best article I've read in a long time here. If a few more were of this quality, I'd probably visit K5 more than just once every two months. :-)

    -
    --
    If they can buy one, why can't we?
    How to spot a Quack. (2.60 / 5) (#256)
    by schreibn on Sun May 07, 2006 at 01:01:57 AM EST

    1st sign: Cures everything. 2nd sign: Testimonials. Plus: IBD treatment with porcine (pig) whipworm (Trichuris suis) is being tested at the University of Iowa. This is a benign and readily available parasite. I would be leery of infecting yourself with parasites since some of these infections can be pretty devastating and disturbing as some of the previous comments have already pointed out. Also, there's danger with too much use as well at this point when appropriate doses and "parasite loads" are unknown. It's perhaps similar to the problem with hypervitaminoses (people taking too much vitamin and developing symptoms of excess of the fat-solubles)

    Tourettes (2.25 / 4) (#257)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Sun May 07, 2006 at 01:48:24 AM EST

    It didn't cure that you fucking butt-monkey.

    [ Parent ]
    I cured my allergies by smoking. (2.50 / 2) (#258)
    by The Real Lord Kano on Sun May 07, 2006 at 03:47:01 AM EST

    I was extremely allergic to pollen. Hayfever and fall allergies were crippling to me. I hated spring, summer and fall. I would go through a bottle of chloraseptic every two or three weeks and my eyes constantly itched.

    I was also allergic to cigarette smoke. During my freshman year of college I began smoking. That was the first time I had no symptoms of my spring or fall allergies. I haven't had them since.

    Perhaps the repeated exposure to one of my allergens made me less sensitive to all of them.

    LK

    Kool (2.66 / 3) (#259)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Sun May 07, 2006 at 11:16:49 AM EST

    That was lucky, I have heard quite a few stories like this over the years, although never that one, where people are exposed to something or adopt a new habit and their allergies disappear.

    To me, and perhaps only to me, smoking represents a bigger risk and is more unpleasant than hookworm. I am not even aware I have them.


    [ Parent ]

    Be careful ... (none / 0) (#284)
    by joegee on Fri May 26, 2006 at 07:25:45 PM EST

    I too was highly allergic to many pollens. I too began smoking in college. My allergies seemed to lessen for a period of several years. Unfortunately for me, roughly three years after starting smoking I developed adult-onset asthma due to an undiagnosed cigarette smoke allergy.

    In my case, smoking actually contributed to severe asthma. After several years of ER visits, frequent aminophylline poisoning, courses of steroids, and five different inhalers, I finally managed to quite smoking. My seasonal allergies returned, but today I take a little wonder pill, Zyrtec, that leaves me sneeze free, and I breath freely for years at a time with a rescue inhaler that I have to refill once a year even though I almost never use it.

    Your mileage may vary, but for me smoking was a mistake that almost cost me my life on several occasions.

    <sig>I always learn something on K5, sometimes in spite of myself.</sig>
    [ Parent ]
    is this spam? (2.00 / 3) (#261)
    by ccdotnet on Mon May 08, 2006 at 04:45:44 AM EST

    >The price for the five-day course, which runs from
    >Monday to Friday, is $500.00 payable in advance by
    >check, wire transfer or money order until I get
    >around to wiring up the some kind of ecommerce
    capability here

    Had many takers?

    Not spam (2.50 / 2) (#262)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Mon May 08, 2006 at 09:37:31 AM EST

    I did not put any solicitations in the article. that quote is from my website.

    yes, I have had takers.

    [ Parent ]

    Fascinating (2.50 / 4) (#263)
    by Zomzom on Mon May 08, 2006 at 09:56:24 PM EST

    As a sufferer of crohn's I was already aware that there have been several tests involving hookworms, particularly one in Queensland, Australia where the doctors running the test deliberately infected themselves and will remain infected for 5 years in an effort to demonstrate the (normally) benign nature of the parasite.

    I found your article incredibly interesting, I'm responding far better than you to various drugs and so don't feel the need to explore this avenue at the moment, but I applaud your audacity - and thank you for sharing the details with us.

    I, for one, (2.00 / 4) (#264)
    by stigmata on Mon May 08, 2006 at 10:34:51 PM EST

    ...welcome our new Ancylostoma duodenale and Necator americanus overlords.



    "But like all puppets you think you're actually human. It's the puppets dream, being normal. "
    I am a hypochondriac (3.00 / 2) (#268)
    by LoveAndRockets on Wed May 10, 2006 at 03:51:54 PM EST

    A few months ago I read about hookworms and for some reason watched a video of them in action on the Scientific American website.

    I immediately was convinced I had hookworms. I have not gone to the doctor but took some antibiotics I have laying about for emergencies.

    After reading your article, and the lengths you went to get hookworm, I am relieved that I do not have them and couldn't have contracted them in a city in north America. Thanks.

    You have serious balls by the way. Standing barefoot in a Cameroonian shithole is one of the most disgusting things I could imagine. I hope it works for you.

    (By the way, if I knew you, due to my hypochondriasis, I wouldn't shake your hand, use the same toilet, or touch the things you touched. And eventually would avoid you altogether but that's just me.)

    glad to have helped? (none / 1) (#269)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Wed May 10, 2006 at 08:51:38 PM EST

    Seriously, glad to have put you at ease. It sounds like a walk in a Cameroonian latrine is exactly what you need.

    After that everything appears clean.

    [ Parent ]

    Would antibiotics kill the little buggers? (none / 1) (#271)
    by LoveAndRockets on Fri May 12, 2006 at 12:08:13 PM EST

    I know it's not the prescribed drug for hookworm, but do you know if an antibiotic like amoxicillin would kill hookworm?

    Also, how's it working out? Are you asthma-free?

    LaR

    [ Parent ]

    asthma free (none / 1) (#272)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Fri May 12, 2006 at 05:38:50 PM EST

    I am asthma free and antibiotics would not kill them. You would need an anti-helminthic like albenazole

    [ Parent ]
    No (none / 1) (#274)
    by artsygeek on Tue May 16, 2006 at 05:58:19 PM EST

    Antibiotics kill microorganisms.

    [ Parent ]
    Careful with the antibiotics!!!!!! (none / 1) (#282)
    by missdipsy on Thu May 25, 2006 at 07:57:50 AM EST

    I know you say you're a hypochondriac, but you do realise that by taking antibiotics randomly like that you are setting yourself up to get something incurable?!! Antibiotics only kill bacteria, not viruses or parasites, so they would be useless against something like hookworms, or a cold or flu for that matter. They should ALWAYS be taken to a regular schedule over an extended period of time, such as a week or two (depending on the particular type of antibiotic & the severity of the disease), as recommended by your doctor.

    If you start prescribing yourself antibiotics, and/or do not follow a doseage schedule determined by a qualified health professional, you increase the likelihood of drug-resistant bacteria developing in your body (i.e. you will get a disease that is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to treat). I'm sure, as someone that worries about disease, you don't want that to happen, do you?!?!?

    If you are really sure you have something, GO TO THE DOCTORS to get medication!! The only medicines you should be prescribing yourself are those readily & legally available to the general public, such as asprin etc. In fact (bear with me on this), by the sounds of it, perhaps it might be wise to seek treatment for your hypochondria? The problem with hypochondria like yours is that there is a real chance you will actually make yourself more ill through inappropriate treatments (like taking unnessecary antibiotics & other unsuitable medication). And of course it does have a serious negative impact on your day to day life & social relationships, as you acknowledge in your final sentence. I know it is hard, as obsessions become like a kind of security blanket that you are scared to let go of, which is why they are self-perpertuating. But you really would be doing yourself a favour!

    I do have a certain amount of personal experience with this as I have had hypochondriac tendencies in the past & have had a lifelong problem with slightly obsessive behaviour related to germs & dirt etc. I have forced myself to become less concerned about these things in recent years (although I wouldn't say I'm "cured"!) as I realised I was heading towards a slippery slope where I would become completely stuck in obsessive behaviours. I think partly it was educating myself about risks that helped; it helps to get things into perspective. You realise that there isn't really any way that you can completely escape from germs & dirt, and in fact it isn't really even desirable to try to (as suggested by the thinking behind this article - infections & infestations may actually strengthen your immune system), but that there are sensible, practical steps you can take to minimise the chances of getting anything serious (i.e. NORMAL hygiene routines), and that actually, the majority of bugs that you are ever likely to catch aren't really that bad after all. It's about balancing risks, i.e. is the risk of catching a cold or a minor stomach bug worth the risk of losing friends & offending people, or worth all the time & effort wasted in trying to avoid it? I know there are slim risks of catching something more serious, but you are probably more likely to be run over than catch anything especially unpleasant.

    Please, please consider getting treatment for your hypochondria; you are probably harming your physical & mental health more through your obsessions than you would if you stopped worrying about disease altogether! Sorry if I'm being intrusive in suggesting this, but I do really think you would be happier & more healthy in the long run.

    [ Parent ]
    Gee, Thanks MOM (none / 1) (#285)
    by LoveAndRockets on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 08:22:30 PM EST

    No just kidding.

    I know it's a problem. But why the big lecture for me and not the guy who stood in a Cameroonian shithole? I think Cameroon has the world's highest HIV infection per capita.

    [ Parent ]

    Better medications than prednisone available (none / 0) (#275)
    by Stickerboy on Wed May 17, 2006 at 02:29:31 PM EST

    From the CDC:

    "The most serious results of hookworm infection are the development of anemia and protein deficiency caused by blood loss. When children are continuously infected by many worms, the loss of iron and protein can retard growth and mental development, sometimes irreversibly. Hookworm infection can also cause tiredness, difficulty breathing, enlargement of the heart, and irregular heartbeat. Sometimes hookworm infection is fatal, especially among infants."

    I suppose in your case (lost your health care), infecting yourself with hookworms might be cost beneficial, but for others, there are newer asthma medications available (Beta-2 specific agonists, leukotriene inhibitors, TNF-alpha inhibitors) that could work better than steroids.

    In my medical school class, there are 2 students who are managing moderate to severe Crohn's disease (they actually presented their cases). Both of them started infliximab (a TNF-alpha inhibitor) around 5 years ago. Both of them are now asymptomatic and have been for the duration of their treatment.

    Parasites are well-known for suppression of a host immune system - it shouldn't come as a shock that they can alleviate or suppress the symptoms of immune-mediated disorders like asthma. The clean-room hypothesis is as close to mass acceptance as you can get without being there - the mechanism seems to be a lack of development of T regulatory cells during childhood due to a lack of proper stimulation/infection. There is a "cure" for this: send your kids to daycare on a regular basis.

    a qualified "yes" (none / 0) (#278)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Wed May 17, 2006 at 10:56:59 PM EST

    The CDC quote has to be qualified by the statement "in cases of high levels of infestation with hookworm". As is widely stated, most hookworm hosts are asymptomatic.

    As to the new and better drugs, sure, that is the point of all the interest in hookworm by Wellcome, et al. But, as I state in my story, a drug derived from this research for my complaint, asthma, is a good ten years away. That is, if they are successful. I have read recently of new inhalers (the last one I tried was Advair). But contrast the unisured cost of Advair at a pharmacy (about $150/month in the USA, about $80/month in Mexico for Advair alone) plus other meds, hospital and doctor's visits, with the cost of hookworm infestation (about $4,000 lifetime if you do what I did - airfare, innoculations, travel insurance). The cost/benefit ratio, by my judgement, swings completely in favor of hookworm. Particularly when, in my experience, you take into account that the modern drugs were not a cure, while hookworm is. That is, I am absolutely free of asthma symptoms now I am infested. I never was under any drug regimen.

    The late aside about sending my kids to day care, and by inference, letting them play in muck, is advice I already follow (I have children). But, I am pretty sure going to day care wouldn't work for me, even were I allowed to stay.

    I have enough of a reputation without showing up at day care to spend the day :-)

    [ Parent ]

    I'd be *very* interested to here about infliximab. (none / 0) (#280)
    by ambrosen on Sat May 20, 2006 at 08:20:36 PM EST

    Since February, infliximab has being helf out as a carrot for me which will greatly help my Crohn's, but the consultants seem to be prevaricating about actually giving me a course of it.

    As I understand it, in the UK, it's given as a course of 3 infusions over 6 weeks (for fistulating Crohn's, only 1 infusion for non-fistualting), and not approved for subsequent therapy, so it's only for control of flare ups. I have mixed information as to whether it's cost (which is what is implied in the NICE documentation, NICE being the body who decide the cost effectiveness of treatments), or due to reduced therapeutic value and immune system recognition of the drug in subsequent treatments (what I heard 2nd hand from a consultant who's a friend and not involved in my treatment).

    What I do know is that I appear to be the only patient considered for this at my hospital (catchment area 250,000) for the past year or so, given the fact that my clinic had difficult coordinating with the TB clinic to get a mantoo test for a healthy patient.

    So, did your fellow students say they were taking it at regular (is it 8 week) intervals? I'd be incredibly grateful if you could mail me (ambrosen before the @ sign, otherwise my email's obvious from my user preferences (gmail.com)) with a bit more details about what they said.

    --
    Procrastination does not make you cool. Being cool makes you procrastinate. DesiredUsername.
    [ Parent ]

    If your hookworks die, will your asthma come back? (none / 0) (#276)
    by mveloso on Wed May 17, 2006 at 08:59:24 PM EST

    Just curious.

    I think so (none / 0) (#277)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Wed May 17, 2006 at 10:43:10 PM EST

    The one reference to a possible answer to this question was yes, after an interval of, I think, about six months.

    That is why I keep reinfesting myself.

    [ Parent ]

    Interesting (none / 0) (#281)
    by mveloso on Mon May 22, 2006 at 04:45:06 PM EST

    That lends greater credence to the idea that the hookworms are excreting something into your bloodstream.

    It's kind of a bummer that it has to be an active infection. I suppose grinding them up and ingesting them wouldn't work,

    It's interesting, because they're probably not just providing an antihistamine. It also implies that asthma might be a deficiency instead of a condition (a condition of deficiency?), much like diabetes. I wish I knew more about the condition.

    Thanks for the interesting article (and treatment info)!

    [ Parent ]

    Why didn't you just farm pigs? (none / 0) (#283)
    by grendelkhan on Fri May 26, 2006 at 01:28:47 AM EST

    You've gone to quite a bit of effort here. What I don't understand is why you didn't just get a summer job farming pigs. You'd get a harmless infestation of pig whipworm, without the risk of getting sliced up and left for dead in the middle of Darkest Africa. Seems like a lot less work.
    -- Laws do not persuade just because they threaten --Seneca
    Pig Hookworm won't work long term (none / 0) (#288)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Fri Jun 09, 2006 at 09:35:30 AM EST

    There was a German company last year who planned to sell pig hookworm larva in gel for oral ingestion to treat asthma, colitis and Crohn's. However, they planned on charging over $500 USD per dose, two being required every four weeks.

    They will not last in humans because they are speciies specific. so they implant briefly, then our immune system kills them off. hence a new dose every two weeks.

    Besides, part of the reason I wanted to go to Cameroon was to scare the crap out of myself.

    to borrow a phrase, "mission accomplished"

    [ Parent ]

    Asthma (none / 0) (#287)
    by Steeltoe on Thu Jun 08, 2006 at 05:28:10 PM EST

    Art of Living Foundation has breathing excercises which you can do, that may help with asthma and breathing problems, as well as strengthen the general health, energy-level and life-quality.

    Very interesting read nonetheless. It is always a pleasure to read about someone succeeding where the mainstream fails. But I would not recommend this approach to anyone. I have friends who have been in India and other places, which got very, very sick just by accident. Some of these were actually very experienced in travelling, but then it just happened anyways. Actually trying to get infected sounds like a big gamble, which could easily turn wrong.

    Breathing excercises can't go wrong. We use aout 40% of our lung-capacity, and the whole organism can benefit by being more attentive to our most important energy infusion.

    Explore the Art of Living

    Strange as it might seem (none / 0) (#290)
    by jarnak on Sun Jun 11, 2006 at 10:55:03 PM EST

    NOTE: I dont care about spelling, typing, or punctuation so look over my many errors you will see...lol END NOTE

    After reading comment after comment of ridicule and things from everyone, i must say this.....

    If it works, then dont knock it. I have dome some strange things myself, none quite as strange as this, but  reading the circumstances, I could understand the reasoning. luckbeaweirdo had the guts to try this, and it works for him. My hats off to you...

    If luckbeaweirdo was getting sick from it, then thats his problem, not mine.  If I catch some strange strain of something after meeting him, then I suppose I could be mad, but until there is a reason for being mad, I can only say I would probably do the same thing under those circumstances, besides  im sure he would be quarantined by now if that were the case. and as far as the "not washing hands for 48 hours" senerio,  my god...lol  I have never went more then a couple of hours without washing, much less 2 days. I would die of nastiness from not washing my hands for 24 hours much less 48, so thats not a problem to me.

    lol, i mean read the course of infestation and cycle, and i already knew how that worked for years now....hell im sure most of you when you were kids has already had some type of worm from playing in your old childhood dogshit filled backyards.  They went away, and your still intact.

    luckbeaweirdo, I do have a couple of questions abou this....

    1. Can you in any way ever feel those worms about in your system? (aside from the coughing fit) as in movements, itching or anything to that nature?

    2. How long do you plan on infesting yourself?

    3. Do people you know in daily life know of this?

    4. has it caused you to lose any weight?

    5. Culd you somehow store the eggs in a mannor so they could be used later on such as months or years in the future?

    Do you have an irresistable urge to go crawling through dirt and people? (could not resist just one funny question)

    a rational one! (none / 0) (#292)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 06:41:53 PM EST

    Hi, thanks for the note of sanity.

    I will answer each of your questions interspersing my answers below:

    Can you in any way ever feel those worms about in your system? (aside from the coughing fit) as in movements, itching or anything to that nature?

    A: I am never aware of them, no Except when the really big one erupted from my chest and forcibly entered some innocent bystanders ass.

    How long do you plan on infesting yourself?

    A: Forever or until there is a change in my bodies adaptation to them that I am unhappy with.

    Do people you know in daily life know of this?

    A: Yes. hahahaha. It makes "spot the moron" easy.

    has it caused you to lose any weight?

    A: No. I think I am healthier because I monitor and so am concious of my health more.

    Culd you somehow store the eggs in a mannor so they could be used later on such as months or years in the future?

    A: It would have to be embryos. But, I believe so and I am working on that now. Some foods and drugs have anti helminthic (anti worm) properties. I worry that I may inadvertently de worm myself. In that case without a resevoir of eggs or embryos i would have to return to Cameroon or somewhere similar. Whipworm embryos will remain inert in a buffered solution for years, according to the literature. I am trying to work out if the same is true of hookworm.

    At the moment I rely on surreptitiously infecting the unsuspecting to create walking reservoirs. (joke)

    Do you have an irresistable urge to go crawling through dirt and people? (could not resist just one funny question)

    A: No, not at all. I almost couldn't do it when I got to Cameroon and it was a struggle to do it every day while there. I almost threw up more than once. It got easier towards the end, but I never crossed over.

    thanks for having brain cells.

    [ Parent ]

    I am blown away by the similarities...... (none / 0) (#294)
    by t saginata on Tue Aug 01, 2006 at 07:46:04 AM EST

    Last year I went to Kenya to collect tapeworm cysticerus for an autoimmune condition. I was there two weeks and spent around five thousand dollars. I selected Kenya because it was one of the very few places on the planet that had data regarding endemic rates of taenia saginata, the beef tapeworm, and those I found out later were quited out-dated. I worked all night in slaughter houses with desperately poor men wielding machetes. Not to mention the entire environment being contaminated with E. Coli. I infected my self with the collected cysts and experienced a very similar phenomenon with my exercise induced bronchospasm.  

    I allowed the worms to mature for 107 days before taking a single dose of praziquantel. I chose 107 days because the worms became sexually mature at 106 days and began shedding proglottides. Which are the motile segments containing the fertilized eggs. I also had nightmares, but in my case it was  about the segments crawling out my butt. Anyhow, the lifecycle of the beef tapeworm requires a cow as the intermediate host, so I did not re-infect myself and approximately five weeks later my bronchospasm gradually returned. When I was doing my research I had considered hookworm, whipworm, but selected the beef tapeworm for reasons beyond inducing regulatory T cells. I think I read you are in California? I live in Nevada. We should talk ... what do you think?

    Hookworms and autoimmune diseases. (none / 0) (#298)
    by Yojimbo on Thu Sep 07, 2006 at 12:22:03 PM EST

    An article so interesting I joined just so I could respond to it. There is a long tradition of trailblazers doing apparently mad things that turn out to be remarkably sane. I have MS and a very nasty respiratory allergy to pollen that nearly killed me a couple of years ago, so I've been following the parasite studies at Nottingham and elsewhere. I've not been able to find hookworms, but you can now purchase pig helminth eggs, at an extortionate monthly cost. If I could get hold of the hookworm eggs I would do exactly what you did.

    Unfortunately, even though it's likely that parasites could be very effective at treating autoimmune diseases, they are unlikely to be used any time soon for two reasons.

    One: There is no profit in it for the drug companies. (What, one treatment every six months?) Though they'll happily make us pay through the nose for a parasite derived daily treatment in five to ten years time.

    Two: People are stupid. Dumber than a bag of hammers. Most of them are don't think about anything, they are only the sum of their cultural programming and biological urges. Worms? Ick!

    I'm not though.

    It's also very common for people to assume that no MD means you are incapable of knowing anything about medecine. That's a load of balls. As my own GP has said to me when discussing my MS.

    The whole use of parasites to treat autoimmune diseases really needs to be investigated thoroughly. It affects crohns, will it work on MS, lupus, arthritis? Are some parasites better at suppressing some conditions that others? Are combinations more effective? What's the optimum level of infestation?

    Email me if you want to talk parasites, you sound usefully well informed.

    Yojimbo.

    MS vs. Hookworm (none / 0) (#299)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 02:25:56 AM EST

    Actually there is a negative association between MS and helminth infestation suggested by some research I have seen, as well as things like migraine which are not commonly thought of as AI diseases.

    Here is a link to a hint of the MS link (http://www.uihealthcare.com/news/currents/vol2issue1/1helminths.html). I have not persued it because I don't have MS, but if I did the equation that lead me as an asthmatic to self infest would definitely apply. Little downside and a potentially huge upside.

    I will email.

    thanks for the post.

    [ Parent ]

    Your email is cloaked (none / 0) (#300)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Sun Sep 17, 2006 at 02:37:57 AM EST

    Hi, I can't email you because you have cloaked your email address in your profile. However you can email me at info(at)hookworm.com

    thanks again for the thoughtful post.

    [ Parent ]

    Bravo!!! (none / 0) (#301)
    by scienceguy on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 04:47:32 PM EST

    Hi,

    I read the story of your experiences with great interest. I do know about the various studies where hookworms and similar parasites have been used to suppress autoimmune diseases successfully, but your audacity is still remarkable. Having lived in a developing country, I still would not trample in faeces. Actually, children in developing countries tend to get mild hookworm infestation just by playing and running around barefoot, even without stepping into faeces. However, you needed to be sure of having infected yourself, and so I suppose you had to give it the best shot.

    To some other people who express utter disgust, I would just like to say that although their disgust is understandable, it need not be expressed in a mindless series of profanities. The human body (and the bodies of all animals) is home to billions of foreign organisms including several varieties of bacteria which perform crucial roles, without which we could not live. Digestion of food for example could simply not occur without these. If anyone has ever been on a long antibiotic course (>1 week), then they probably remember being given vitamin pills. Most antibiotics tend to kill the helpful flora in our digestive tract. In their absence, the digestion is impaired and so is the absorption of various nutrients. Often, one has to eat foods like yogurt which contain some bacteria that are known to be helpful.

    In fact, taking a small dose of hookworm (maybe in a less direct manner) would be a perfectly simple way to cure several problems in most allergy sufferers. And that is precisely why it will never be done (not in 10 years, no).

    My experience in the US was a very amusing one. During the 3 years there, I was stunned by the amount of various pills that perfectly healthy people willingly swallows every day at great financial and personal cost to treat a wide variety of "illnesses" ranging from spidery vains, rosacea to acid-reflux disease etc. In almost every case, the person has to take "just 1 pill a day" for the rest of his/her life, with severe side-effects with almost every pill ranging from depression, sexual side effects, hallucinations to what not. If I had to take a pill a day, I would not even feel healthy. A few worms are nothing compared to all that. However, the pharma industry has no wish to offer people a treatment which would cure them with one short course, or which would require doses only every few months.

    Then, there is the other fact that doctors would just not feel comfortable telling their patients "Now I will just give you a small dose of hookworm". We are too sanitized for that. In the ancient times, leeches were used to draw blood in the belief that they removed the toxic elements in blood very effectively. Modern medicine has an approach which is too sterilized, in most cases.

    In the given circumstances, I think stepping in a little shit :) is probably not such a bad idea. If I had to choose between stepping in a bit of shit and suffering from chronic breathing problems and daily doses of steroids, I would shut my eyes and step.

    Ignore the idiots. (none / 0) (#303)
    by Yojimbo on Fri Jan 12, 2007 at 01:53:05 PM EST

    Ignore the morons who are calling you names. If you read those posts you'll realise half of them can't spell, or use basic grammar. Not the sharpest tools in the box.

    The latest research suggests that hookworms are the parasites to get if you are asthmatic. Whipworms have no effect. My guess is that each species of parasite has a gene or genes specifically for combating it, and you need the right parasite for each specific autoimmune illness. The gene that causes autoimmune type one diabetes seems to give a resistance to Bilhazaria, Crohn's a resistance to whipworm, and so on.

    Interestingly, there has been a suggestion that the contraceptive pill may be a culprit in the sharp increase in autoimmune and other inherited problems. When not on the pill women are attracted to males whose immune system is dissimilar, so you don't tend to get too many double copies of major histo compatability genes. But if you are on the pill you'll prefer the scent of immune similar males, like family, so you'll prefer the 'wrong' man to reproduce with. Does a history of the same autimmune illness on both sides of the family make you more likely to be asthmatic? Make the asthma worse? I'm still looking for info on this.

    In an asthmatic, the villains are eosinophils. The function of these cells in a healthy individual are to fight parasites in the lungs. I can't believe people find it so hard to accept that parasites are a viable treatment.

    The research at Nottingham University Hospital is that twenty to twenty four worms would be the right amount.

    Time will probably prove you were right.

    You probably need fewer parasites, not more (none / 0) (#304)
    by antiparasite on Wed Jan 17, 2007 at 03:55:14 AM EST


    • If it is really the hookworms that are working for you, it could be that your hypothesis is nevertheless erroneous.

      It could be, for example, because the blood sucked out of you by hookworm is lessening your body stores of iron, of which you may have had too much.  But there are safer ways to decrease your iron stores.

      Or it could be that the hookworm competed with some other parasite(s) that were causing your problems, and they died.  Now kill the hookworms.

      Or it could be something else.

    • I don't see the word 'herb' on this page, and I don't see that you tried any antiparasitic drugs. There are many herbs and herb mixes and drugs that kill parasites.  You should have tried some before adding new parasites to your system.  Some other parasite(s) could have been causing your problems.

      Some good herb mixes are DrNatura's Colonix, and two well-known others are Para-Shield, and ParaGone.  There are many.  Do a Google search for

      parasites asthma -autoimmune cure

    • There are many other non-drug remedies for asthma, including a low-sugar, low-carb diet, tens of grams of vitamin C per day, magnesium supplementation, and on and on.  Depending on what the problem is for you, one or more of these can work.  It's a big world out there.  Not just prednisone and other bad-news, symptom-tweaking metabolic drugs.

    • You probably got infected with many more parasites than just hookworm. Some take a while to be noticeable, others may cause problems you will never link to parasites, and still others may not be noticeable.  There are hundreds, maybe thousands of parasites that can live in humans, and tropical countries with bad sanitation are a really bad place to be.

    • You say nothing about reading books on parasites.  Here are some books anyone should read before walking in African latrines and in general when trying to cure chronic conditions:

        Guess What Came to Dinner

        Fearsome Fauna

        Basic Clinical Parisitology

        Also, you will find lots of personal stories about parasites on http://CureZone.com.

    • You are a hazard to your fellow man and should eradicate the hookworms and other parasites you got from your body.

    • If you kill your hookworms, you will probably kill off other ones along with them, and you will probably end up feeling a lot better than you do now.  And you will be less of a danger to the rest of us.

    • Best is to search and search until you find a doc who knows a lot about treatments other than mainstream drugs, drugs, drugs.  Orthomolecular Medicine is a good way to go, except that many of those docs, like all docs, are blind to parasites.  "We are a rich country with good sanitation and 'modenr medicine'.  We don't have any parasite problems!"

    Good luck.

    applause (none / 0) (#305)
    by timewillproveyouright on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 02:09:13 AM EST

    Hey luckbeaweirdo!
    What you did, is fantastic and adorable! Do not listen to those who insult you, they do not know better. They have never been so poorly (physically) and do not have the ability to empathize. They are not worth thinking about them.
    Well, but back to you: You are very brave and you can be proud of yourself for what you did and that you did not give up in times that must have been extremely hard.
    I also believe in the worm-allergy-interrelation-theory and I congratulate you to your great success! It is also great that you tell the rest of the world of what many scientists never achieve.
    One question to you: How long did it exactly take for you to notice an effect?- I mean,how many months had to pass after your very first infestation? It would be very nice, if you described that to me.
    Thank u.
    - At the beginning there is bravery, at the end there is happiness. -

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated (none / 0) (#306)
    by ric on Wed Jan 24, 2007 at 07:51:21 AM EST

    Your story is well written, well articulated, well researched and now you are well, congratulations.

    Thanks for putting yourself out there and taking the time to share your experience with others.

    I also have experienced Africa, you can hear stories, see documentaries but until you are physically there to see it, smell it and taste it for yourself, can you truly begin to understand the culture shock that awaits you.

    I tend to see the humorous side of this and tried putting myself in your shoes or rather bare feet, traipsing through the faeces of manchette wielding villagers, what a site this must have been, especially trying to explain why???

    Your pioneering spirit reminds of the Australian Nobel prize winner who for over twenty years frustratingly tried to tell the scientific world that ulcers were not created by the "main stream" view of stress but rather a bacterium which is easily treated with a course of antibiotics..  Finally in the end the scientist bravely infected himself with the harmful bacteria, producing an ulcer, and then healed himself - proving once and for all to the world that ulcers could be cured with antibiotics. The discovery turned a 26 billion dollar market for stomach ulcers on its head!

    Experiencing illness first hand I could easily see myself doing the same thing as you.  I don't have twenty years for the scientific community to come around!

    I have MS and came across this recent article which shows the results of a four year small yet impressive parasite/MS trial published in Annals of Neurology 2007-01-24
    http://www.medpagetoday.com/Neurology/MultipleSclerosis/tb/4870

    Any advice on obtaining some of these critters would be greatly appreciated.

    Kind Regards,

    Ric


    MS (none / 0) (#308)
    by Yojimbo on Sun Jan 28, 2007 at 07:07:33 AM EST

    You're not the only MS sufferer keeping a keen eye an the latest parasite news. I watched it pick my mother apart one neuron at a time, so when I started going numb in patches I had a fair idea of what was going on. As an English woman with an MS suffering mother, the odds were about 1/22 that I develop it. I got unlucky, but I'm not crippled. Yet.

    The study you posted (thanks!) was a lot more detailed than the reports I read. They didn't actually have a helminth infested sample from what I could see. Maybe they should give that a go on a large scale. My logic being that whipworms were common in Europe until fairly recently, so it's the parasite that our immune systems are most likely to miss. Also, there is a class relationship to MS, the same way there is to Crohn's, so there's more reason to think the same parasite will work. Helminths won't work for asthma, though. It's been shown that asthma is hookworm specific, like sickle cell to malaria.

    Yojimbo.

    [ Parent ]

    That's a good point on the whipworm (none / 0) (#309)
    by ric on Sun Jan 28, 2007 at 07:06:56 PM EST

    Hi Yojimbo,

    So sorry to hear MS has been a double whammy in your life, I dream of the day we can say goodbye to this dreadful illness.

    That's a good point on the whipworm.

    One of the two scientist who conducted the MS study is Jorge Correale and his email is jcorreale@fleni.org.ar

    Might be something you could point out to Jorge for future studies he is good at answering emails.

    Kind Regards,

    Ric

    [ Parent ]

    Hookworms / Whipworms MS and Asthma (none / 0) (#314)
    by KarlG on Sat Feb 10, 2007 at 11:42:03 PM EST

    All this research is facinating to me.  

    I suffer from several nasty auto-immune disorders, and the problems of a well-fed man in the west with patasites basically do not exist.  If I did have a problem that made me dissatisfied with having parasites, within two days the parasites can be history with a simple and safe medication.

    The risk is nil- and the rewards are potentially very, very great... I am up to try parasites.  

    The evolutionary argument (that man evolved an immune system that had parasites as a constant, and that the absence of parasites may be the cause for auto-immune disease in the West) seems so strong, that I am eager to try this approach.

    There is no drug which offers such a potentially good chance for success that I have heard of- let alone with so many different disorders- and with virtually no risk if you are well fed.

    I would prefer to try the hookworms- but may have to wait on that for a while.  Like the author of this article, however, I might be up to travel to some other country if I need to.  

    I admit, sub-saharan Africa would be my last choice of locales to visit due to crime, and especially the prevelance of water, food, and insect borne disease.

    BTW- what company in Germany was going to offer the picine whipworms/hookworms?  

    At $1,500 per month, I bet they would have very few customers.  Still, it is interesting that a company was willing to do that service, albeit, at a very high cost.

    [ Parent ]

    start my own hook worm trial (none / 0) (#315)
    by ric on Mon Feb 12, 2007 at 07:31:03 AM EST

    I agree, the risk seems rather low compared to the potential pay off.

    $1,500.00 a month is too rich for my blood though.

    I'm trying desperately to become good friends with some hookworms without travelling to the ends of the earth.

    With my MS, I have an attack once a year in April like clockwork, If I stop having the attack then I know it works.

    Heres an interesting article about two Australian Doctors that are leading experts in infectious parasites.  They infected themselves to monitor the effects of hookworm and decided it would be beneficial to keep them.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/australia/qld/townsville/200510/s1485305.htm

    If respected leaders in the medical community will go through such measures, it makes my decision seem less crazy.

    I recently sent an email to one of the doctors in the mentioned article above who infected himself.  He is located in Australia not far from my home residence and I asked him if he would start me in a trial and monitor my progress to make it more scientific.

    He's away on holidays at the moment, but I'm eagerly waiting his reply.

    I'll keep the group posted if I manage to succeed.

    Ric


    [ Parent ]

    succeed in a Helminth treatment! (none / 0) (#324)
    by ric on Sun Oct 21, 2007 at 02:38:37 AM EST

    I have managed to succeed in tracking down a Helminth treatment through:

    https://autoimmunetherapies.com/home.php

    You can read regular posting of my progress here under ric245

    http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/helminthictherapy/

    Fingers crossed!

    [ Parent ]

    Ovamed (none / 0) (#319)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Fri Feb 16, 2007 at 10:08:20 AM EST

    the company is called Ovamed and was founded by Joel Weinstock of University of Iowa fame. He is pioneering the research into helminths and GI autoimmune disorders like Crohn's.

    If you want to try hoowkworm which should work contact me at info@asthmahookworm.com

    LBAW

    [ Parent ]

    Performing more reasearch in the parasite/MS trial (none / 0) (#316)
    by ric on Mon Feb 12, 2007 at 10:04:37 PM EST


    I emailed Jorge Correale about performing more reasearch in the parasite/MS trial.

    http://www.medpagetoday.com/Neurology/MultipleSclerosis/tb/4870

    Heres his reply

    Dear Ric,

    We are planning to increase the numebr of patients that have MS and parasites at the same time, to study what kind of parasites really protect and what not.
    regards
    Jorge Correale MD

    [ Parent ]

    MS stuff. (none / 0) (#321)
    by Yojimbo on Sat Mar 17, 2007 at 01:29:13 PM EST

    I've been in serious research mode, and I've dug up some useful MS info. Did you know that ALL of us MS sufferers have low uric  acid levels in their blood? Not one MS sufferer has ever had gout. They are now suggesting that purines might help to increase they inflammation of the CNS and the permeability of the blood brain barrier. So look up a page on gout, and do the exact opposite of what it says. I'm also trying alpha lipoic acid.

    As far as I can tell, MS is a two stage illness. Hereditary uric acid levels low enough to make the CNS vulnerable, combined with a hyper immune system that's decided neurons are the enemy. I've tentatively assumed that its a three gene problem from statistical analysys. Anyone who wants to chat MS and science, or worms an autoimmunity, email me at...

     transalpini@btinternet.com

    Mathilda.
     

    [ Parent ]

    Fascinating info (none / 0) (#325)
    by ric on Sun Oct 21, 2007 at 02:44:56 AM EST

    Fascinating info, yes I already knew this, however I do not think many people are aware of the link between uric levels and MS. Thanks for sharing!

    [ Parent ]
    Obtaining hookworm (none / 0) (#318)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Fri Feb 16, 2007 at 10:06:20 AM EST

    simply contact me at info@asthmahookworm.com

    LBAW

    [ Parent ]

    Latest research! (none / 0) (#307)
    by Yojimbo on Sun Jan 28, 2007 at 06:47:14 AM EST

    Great news that some practical research has at last been done into MS and parasites. They didn't specify which parasites, how heavy an infestation, and wether they were multiple types, etc. Needs more detail and study, in a more controlled environment. While nosing about I came across this site.

    http://biotherapy.md.huji.ac.il/new_page_5.htm

    I'm coming to the conclusion that autoimmunity genes will eventually end up in the same category as thalassaemia and sickle cell. They are a good idea in certain circumstances, but nasty in others.

    I'm still stunned by the complete lack of comprehension in some of the other responses. About the only valid critcism I've read was that you probably picked up other parasites while you were in Africa. I've read up on the life cycle of hookworms. Unless people are rubbing dirt that you've dumped in several days ago, and kept nice and warm, into themselves, they won't get infested. Hookworms have a complex lifecycle.

    If I were luckbeaweirdo, I'd be a bit peeved at how poorly some people have read and understood his item. A lot of the responses are from pillocks haven't read up on the subject, didn't read the item properly, and didn't check out the links. The hippy ones muttering about alternative therapies are just silly. I doubt 'Dr' Hulda Clark was actually an MD.

    Yo!

    I gave you the wrong email (none / 0) (#317)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Fri Feb 16, 2007 at 10:01:46 AM EST

    It should be info@asthmahookworm.com.

    Sorry.

    It would be great to chat.

    [ Parent ]

    New web site (none / 0) (#320)
    by luckbeaweirdo on Fri Feb 16, 2007 at 12:23:00 PM EST

    Hi, the response to this has been very strong, pro and con, so I decided to work on another site: http://www.autoimmunetherapies.com

    Let me know what you think.

    lbaw

    [ Parent ]

    Ric... (none / 0) (#322)
    by greenarborex1 on Wed May 09, 2007 at 02:05:21 PM EST

    would be cool if you contacted me! I am also looking for hookworms. Maybe we could help each other. If you are interested, you can contact me on greenarborex@hotmail.com

    You made the Wikipedia page! (none / 0) (#323)
    by Yojimbo on Mon Jul 30, 2007 at 03:41:22 PM EST

    Congratulations.

    Yojimbo.

    How to cure your asthma or hayfever using hookworm - a practical guide | 320 comments (275 topical, 45 editorial, 0 hidden)
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