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Site Update Quickies

By rusty in Site News
Tue Dec 18, 2001 at 02:57:13 AM EST
Tags: Kuro5hin.org (all tags)
Kuro5hin.org

A couple of notes:

  • I had to change the way Scoop stores your box display preferences, and unfortunately it necessitated wiping your existing box choices and starting from scratch. I apologize, and it won't happen again. If you had settings before, just pop over to your display prefs and reset them.
  • Section Stories and New Diaries boxes are a bit prettier now, I hope. Let me know what you think.
  • One of the new Scoop servers has a NIC that keeps blowing up. That's why we've been so slow today. It ought to be cleared up by tomorrow.

Update [2001-12-18 16:24:28 by rusty]: Ok, to hopefully appease those of you who liked the old section box, I added this headline browser page. It should accomplish somewhat more than the box did, while still allowing us to have a non-ugly box on the front page. It's also linked from the top of the new Section Stories box.


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Site Update Quickies | 28 comments (28 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Its 3 in the morning... (4.66 / 3) (#1)
by pschap on Tue Dec 18, 2001 at 03:00:54 AM EST

Go to bed already and stop messing with my box preferences...

--
"In 1991, we had almost nothing. We'd only begun building cocks. After just 10 years, we have a very robust, active cock."

Heh (5.00 / 5) (#2)
by rusty on Tue Dec 18, 2001 at 03:18:09 AM EST

You sound like my wife. :-)

Um, not that she actually worries about box preferences, but right up until that bit...

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

well actually... (4.66 / 6) (#13)
by pschap on Tue Dec 18, 2001 at 10:35:27 AM EST


If you agreed to marry her I'd say she's probably pretty pleased with your box preferences....
...
...
Disclaimer: In a pathetic attempt to excuse that rude joke, I should point out that I'm STILL awake...

--
"In 1991, we had almost nothing. We'd only begun building cocks. After just 10 years, we have a very robust, active cock."

[ Parent ]
What have you done? (4.40 / 5) (#3)
by mumble on Tue Dec 18, 2001 at 04:32:55 AM EST

I usually don't have time to read front page stories, so I just browse the stories in non-front page sections. But now with the new format makes my old habit useless. There is now about 1/5 the number of stories to chose from, I don't get to know how many comments there are until I open the story, and I can't browse my preffered sections first. You couldn't have irritated me more even if you tried. OK, that is a bit harsh, but I'm in a grumbly mood.

-----
stats for a better tomorrow
bitcoin: 1GsfkeggHSqbcVGS3GSJnwaCu6FYwF73fR
"They must know I'm here. The half and half jug is missing" - MDC.
"I've grown weary of googling the solutions to my many problems" - MDC.
Well (4.25 / 4) (#4)
by rusty on Tue Dec 18, 2001 at 04:51:55 AM EST

Hm. My thinking was that the way it was laid out before was (A) Ugly, and (B) Very unlikely to draw attention to the newest non-FP stories (as it was meant to do). So instead of splitting them up and taking up a lot of room with extra information, I simplified and just made it show the newest ones, chronologically.

I understand your use patterns though. It was a good browsing tray. I'll try to make something that can fill that role.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

My take (bad move) (4.00 / 1) (#19)
by vastor on Tue Dec 18, 2001 at 04:57:41 PM EST

I actually thought it looked fairly nice as it used to be, but tastes vary I guess. Maybe a preference that would let you switch between the new "most recent 7" setup and the old style would be the best way to go.

I actually rather liked that you got a clear context about the articles, since for example "Bite the Penguin" as a MLP humour would be quite different to "Bite the Penguin" as a Technology article (which could be about virii under linux) as opposed to Politics which may be about gov't deciding linux was anti-capitalist or something like that. So having the section be reduced to small print beneath it is a bit of a downer since previously you could just read the box title and know what the three were going to be about.

MLPs. Sometimes there can be a rush on them and really, I tend not to care at all if I miss MLPs. However they seem to be the most frequent non-FP article, so will push the others out of the 7 most recent fairly quickly (they are 4 of the 7 right now). Some sections also have a fairly slow turn over compared to others, so will be less visible than before since their infrequent article will appear for a day or whatever and then be gone again for quite possibly a week or more.

Basically, I never had to go in to the actual sections at all with the old non-FP articles index on the front page and could be fairly confident of never missing anything I'd consider interesting (basically just MLPs). Diaries were about the only section I'd actually go in to (and only seldomly).

So really, it's made for a fairly big usability detraction (and sure I can still go look in each section directly, but it's a bit silly to have to take five times as long just to do what I could previously do easily). Maybe for those who visit three times a day it is no big deal (you could even put a little marker showing which articles are new since you last visited the front page), but if it's not a terribly frequent thing you do then it'll mean either lots of time wasted checking each section which you didn't need to do before or just missing articles which you may have liked before.


Context

Switch

[ Parent ]
Thanks heaps (none / 0) (#24)
by mumble on Wed Dec 19, 2001 at 12:26:33 AM EST

Boy, are you productive. You have a fix for the problem already, and it looks great. Thanks!!

I'm now a very happy camper. Keep up the great work.

-----
stats for a better tomorrow
bitcoin: 1GsfkeggHSqbcVGS3GSJnwaCu6FYwF73fR
"They must know I'm here. The half and half jug is missing" - MDC.
"I've grown weary of googling the solutions to my many problems" - MDC.
[ Parent ]

Oh good (none / 0) (#25)
by rusty on Wed Dec 19, 2001 at 01:10:24 AM EST

I was hoping that would do it. Actually I might start using that myself. It's a nifty full-site overview.

Now, if you could only search and browse stories by date...

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Subscribers (5.00 / 1) (#5)
by rusty on Tue Dec 18, 2001 at 04:54:00 AM EST

One more thing-- I just added 25 days to all subscriptions. One or two of you have subscribed since we came back up, so Merry Christmas. :-)

The rest of you, it's only fair. Let it not be said that we don't provide full value for your money, here! Er, well, at least all the value we promised in the first place, at any rate.

____
Not the real rusty

boxes? (pardon the lame pun) (none / 0) (#6)
by boxed on Tue Dec 18, 2001 at 04:58:15 AM EST

So I guess this means that the boxes won't take space on the front page when disabled.

Nope, seems not.

This will be the case soon though I assume? :P

Colon colon? (3.00 / 1) (#7)
by Khalad on Tue Dec 18, 2001 at 05:48:02 AM EST

Minor gripe:

What's that :: thing joining the section and topic? Been Perling a bit much lately?

How about a simple colon and a space, or a dash (or a slash even, God forbid)? These symbols have perfectly acceptable non-programming uses, you know. :-)


You remind me why I still, deep in my bitter crusty broken heart, love K5. —rusty


Issues with the new front page design (4.00 / 2) (#8)
by Carnage4Life on Tue Dec 18, 2001 at 07:18:47 AM EST

  1. Moving who's online from the right to the left leaves too much blank space on the right and clutters up the left side.

  2. Showing only one instead of three stories in the Sections box means it is more likely that section only stories will be missed. This looks like a ploy to boost banner ad hits by having people click on the section pages more but will most likely backfire with people clicking on them less since there'll be less stories to entice them.

  3. Removing the number of comments to the stories on the section page looks again like an attempt to boost banner ad hits by making people click on the story to see if any more posts have been made since they last looked at the stories. This is another idea that I think may backfire but not as much as the previous one. Frankly it looks like I'll finally have to start using the Everything section.


I disagree (3.00 / 1) (#14)
by dram on Tue Dec 18, 2001 at 11:19:04 AM EST

I like where the "Who's Online" box is. before I only had the "Subscribe to K5" box on the left hand side and it was nothing but open space under that. Now it is filled with "Who's Online." Now both the left and the right sides end before the stories do, its quite nice for me.

-dram
[grant.henninger.name]

[ Parent ]
"Only one"? (4.00 / 1) (#15)
by rusty on Tue Dec 18, 2001 at 12:37:04 PM EST

Showing only one instead of three stories in the Sections box

You're not the only one who said this, but it doesn't show only one. It shows the last seven section-only stories from any section, chronologically. In fact you're far less likely to miss a section story, since each one will have it's moment at the top of that list, unlike the old layout, where new stories appeared wherever.

Removing the number of comments to the stories on the section page looks again like an attempt to boost banner ad hits by making people click on the story to see if any more posts have been made since they last looked at the stories.

It's not. It's just an attempt to clean up the look, visually, by removing a little of the extraneous information. If you want to know if there are new comments on something, just hotlist it. And "boost banner ad hits"? C'mon, Carnage, really. You should know me better than that.

Sheesh. I had forgotten how resistant you guys are to any kind of change. :-/

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

And also... (4.00 / 1) (#17)
by rusty on Tue Dec 18, 2001 at 12:55:18 PM EST

In my previous grumpy no-coffee-yet-today comment, I also forgot to mention that I have an idea that I think will make fans of the old section stories box very happy. Give me a bit to put it together, but look for a new link on top of the new section box later today.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Keep it up. (none / 0) (#22)
by Alistair on Tue Dec 18, 2001 at 09:57:50 PM EST

Instead of the new link, make the 'Section Stories' header the link to the headline browser page.
---
GOT WANG?
[ Parent ]
But... (none / 0) (#23)
by rusty on Tue Dec 18, 2001 at 11:12:37 PM EST

If you didn't already know that's what it was, would it ever occur to you to click it?

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
RE: "Only one"? (none / 0) (#26)
by Carnage4Life on Wed Dec 19, 2001 at 02:35:15 AM EST

You're not the only one who said this, but it doesn't show only one. It shows the last seven section-only stories from any section, chronologically. In fact you're far less likely to miss a section story, since each one will have it's moment at the top of that list, unlike the old layout, where new stories appeared wherever.

If two stories in the same section are voted to section in succession (i.e. a few hours apart) it is very easy for people who don't obsessively check K5 to miss them. This makes being posted to section more of a death sentence for discussions in a story than it already is.

It's not. It's just an attempt to clean up the look, visually, by removing a little of the extraneous information.

Maybe it's because I browse the web with a small font size (smallest on MSIE) but it didn't seem cluttered to me.

If you want to know if there are new comments on something, just hotlist it.

I dislike hotlisting stories since most times I am interested too many stories for too short that managing a hotlist would become a significant activity for me, so I don't do it.

And "boost banner ad hits"? C'mon, Carnage, really. You should know me better than that.

My bad, rusty. :(
I didn't mean for that to come off as accusatory as it did.

Sheesh. I had forgotten how resistant you guys are to any kind of change. :-/

av("Sorreee"); /* apologetic voice */

[ Parent ]
No, no... (none / 0) (#27)
by rusty on Wed Dec 19, 2001 at 03:00:55 AM EST

If two stories in the same section are voted to section in succession, the most recent will be on top, and the next most recent will be next down from that. It's not split up by section anymore. Just straight chronologically.

My bad, rusty. :(

Bygones. Did you see this? Does that help?

I have an idea already, though, that will allow you to optionally bring back the old section stories box. Give me a day or two.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Sections boxes (4.50 / 2) (#9)
by wiredog on Tue Dec 18, 2001 at 07:40:29 AM EST

Is there any way to get the Sections boxes to show more than one story? It's not unusual for two or three stories to hit one of those boxes in a couple of hours. Those of us who are only able to check in before and after work/school/whatever could end up missing interesting stories. And more (and often more interesting) stuff goes to sections than to the front page.

Peoples Front To Reunite Gondwanaland: "Stop the Laurasian Separatist Movement!"
The way it works (5.00 / 1) (#16)
by rusty on Tue Dec 18, 2001 at 12:53:20 PM EST

It doesn't split them into sections anymore-- it just lists the last 7 section-only stories chronologically. So you're not likely to miss any (since we don't post seven new stories in a short period of time, generally).

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Boxes (5.00 / 1) (#10)
by DJBongHit on Tue Dec 18, 2001 at 08:11:17 AM EST

I'll have to agree with the other posters on this one. The new Sections box definitely looks better aesthetically, but it should show 3 stories from each section, not just one, and should also show the number of comments in each story (is there something wrong with showing commentcount for diaries too? I did that on Smokedot, and the diaries section generates much more discussion now).

Also, I liked the "Who's Online?" box on the right instead of the left, but that's a minor nitpick since I never look at it anyway. It just makes the page feel more balanced when it's on the other side.

~DJBongHit

--
GNU GPL: Free as in herpes.

Actually (4.00 / 1) (#12)
by theR on Tue Dec 18, 2001 at 09:35:54 AM EST

If you set up enough external feeds and/or have the older stories box checked, the right side of the page is still much longer than the left side with the "Who's Online" box.

I agree with the ideas about showing number of diary comments and listing three stories for each section.



[ Parent ]
Front page (4.66 / 3) (#11)
by grandpa jive on Tue Dec 18, 2001 at 09:10:53 AM EST

What I'd really like is a way to view the "Everything" portion when I go to this page [and am logged in]. Minor annoyance, but still.

didn't see anything for it at all.

Also (none / 0) (#18)
by aphrael on Tue Dec 18, 2001 at 04:09:55 PM EST

modsub appears to be broken; every time i click on 'moderate submissions' right now it's taking me to a 'new healdines' page. (This just in case you hadn't noticed yet; i'll be mailing in a bug report, too).

RDF File? (none / 0) (#20)
by lovelace on Tue Dec 18, 2001 at 07:01:13 PM EST

Rusty,

Great job in getting the site back up. Thanks very much. Whenever you get a free moment (yeah, right!), could you check into the problem of backend.rdf not updating? It's currently dated at "2001-12-16T20:48:43Z" and not updating at all. (Or perhaps it's changing to something else..?)

Yes (none / 0) (#21)
by rusty on Tue Dec 18, 2001 at 07:09:13 PM EST

I know what the problem is. It's just gonna take a wee bit of code to fix it. This is related to having one site on multiple servers, BTW.

"Kuro5hin.org: We do things no one else has ever done with Scoop, so you don't have to!"

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

kuroshin.org -vs- kuro5hin.org (none / 0) (#28)
by freakertuc on Sat Dec 29, 2001 at 04:44:40 PM EST

If you try to post a story or do a action after being logged in on kuroshin.org you get automatically to the status of anonymous (not being logged in). This is not so whenever you login on kuro5hin.org and do the same actions.
--- Freaker
Site Update Quickies | 28 comments (28 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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