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[P]
Scoop upgrade

By hurstdog in Site News
Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 12:35:24 PM EST
Tags: Scoop (all tags)
Scoop

I just upgraded the code here, so there is a new feature, and a bugfix, mainly. For those of your getting two Site Digests in your inbox for a week or two, we're sorry, it should be fixed now. For those of you that wanted ads to open in a new window, now you have a pref that can set up all ads to open in a new window. Details follow.


First, the bugfix. We have a cron job here than runs every 5 minutes, so that different things can get done in Scoop. Digest sending is one of those. This worked great for a long time, until one day we started sending enough digests that it took longer than 5 min to send them. Now, it started sending digests, after 5 min, started sending another batch, finished the first, marked them as sent, then finished the second and marked them as sent.. Thus everyone was getting 2 digests. With a small change, it now marks all as sent then sends the digests out. Fun problems of scale :-)

The new feature: ads opening in a new window. Due to complaints about ad links not opening in a new window, I added in a feature that sets that up for you. Go to your display prefs and notice the box that says: " Open advertisement clicks in new window?" (yes thats bad english, you know what I mean ;) Set that to Yes (it should be there by default, even if you don't have a pref for it, just by the way the select box works.) and save your prefs. Viola! Now when you click on an ad it opens in a new window. Though, some in #kuro5hin have said this might break mailto: links. I don't see why it would. Take this into account when you set your prefs.

So thats it! Any problems, comments, whatever, post below.

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Display: Sort:
Scoop upgrade | 46 comments (46 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Ad bug? (5.00 / 1) (#1)
by ucblockhead on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 12:38:09 PM EST

Hey, I just wanted to mention that twice I've seen my own ad (the "Emacs sucks" one). I thought that wasn't supposed to happen...
-----------------------
This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
I thought (5.00 / 1) (#2)
by wiredog on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 12:39:21 PM EST

you just didn't get charged for it.

btw, is it just me, or did this story bypass the queue?

Peoples Front To Reunite Gondwanaland: "Stop the Laurasian Separatist Movement!"
[ Parent ]

right on both (5.00 / 2) (#5)
by hurstdog on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 12:45:10 PM EST

If you see your own ad, it doesn't count the impression. Site news stories generally get automatically posted to the section pages. Unless its a big story, in which case we post it to the queue so it can get voted front page if people want.



[ Parent ]
Wow. (3.75 / 4) (#3)
by quartz on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 12:42:03 PM EST

It's soooooo hard to click the middle mouse button instead of the left (or even *gasp!* click TWICE if I don't have a middle mouse button) when checking out an advertised site that I need a new Scoop feature to accomodate my laziness. Like I said, wow.



--
Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke, and fuck 'em even if they can.
Middle button and context menus have flaws (5.00 / 2) (#6)
by pin0cchio on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 01:03:40 PM EST

It's soooooo hard to click the middle mouse button instead of the left

For one thing, IE doesn't support the middle mouse button, and the Open in New Window is not

(or even *gasp!* click TWICE if I don't have a middle mouse button)

I assume you refer to the context menu. Note that the context menus of IE and Mozilla do not always appear in the same place relative to the mouse pointer, which completely breaks any sort of muscle memory.


lj65
[ Parent ]
IE (4.00 / 1) (#7)
by xvathojn on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 01:26:07 PM EST

Shift-click, and there you are.



[ Parent ]
Ugh... (none / 0) (#11)
by J'raxis on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 01:49:10 PM EST

Which seems to be Save link as... in Mozilla. Nice consistency...

— The Raxis

[ J’raxis·Com | Liberty in your lifetime ]
[ Parent ]

Opera, too (none / 0) (#23)
by xvathojn on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 06:46:45 PM EST

In Opera it’s Open in New Window, too.



[ Parent ]
MSIE on Macintosh (none / 0) (#29)
by J'raxis on Tue Mar 12, 2002 at 01:15:01 AM EST

Then on Macintosh MSIE, we have:

Option-Click (Alt-Click) to download (you actually do not get prompted, so it’s Save, not Save as, and Command-Click to open in a new window. Then we have Control-Click for the context menus since Macintosh mice have only one button. Shift-Click does nothing unusual.

— The Macintosh Raxis

[ J’raxis·Com | Liberty in your lifetime ]
[ Parent ]

Thank You to the Scoop coders (none / 0) (#15)
by mauftarkie on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 02:51:41 PM EST

I just wanted to say THANK YOU for giving us the option. I personally turned it off because I want control over my browser windows (or in my case, tabs). It really burns my hide when a website makes the decision to open a new window for me when I click on a link (especially with no notification). 99.9 times out of 100, I don't want a new window (the existing one is just fine thankyouverymuch). I hate the target option more than the <blink> tag of old. Grr.

Yes, yes... I know I can write a CSS userstyle sheet to warn me of impending anger, I just haven't gotten around to it. Yet.

So, I thank you again for helping me keep my sanity. My co-workers thank you, too.

--
Without you I'm one step closer to happiness without violence.
Without you I'm one step closer to innocence without consequence.


[ Parent ]
If you use Mozilla (none / 0) (#36)
by jsoderba on Tue Mar 12, 2002 at 11:24:25 AM EST

You can set user_pref("browser.target_new_blocked", true); in user.js in you're profile directory to turn this off.

Anyone who's interrested in more Mozilla customization can go to Pratik Solanki's site.



[ Parent ]
Almost right... (none / 0) (#39)
by mauftarkie on Tue Mar 12, 2002 at 11:47:09 PM EST

Using the latest build (2002031208) for my platform, and that pref unfortunately doesn't work.

I dug into Bugzilla and turned up bug 128925, which states that it's actually been changed to:

user_pref("browser.block.target_new_window", true);

Additionally, it's accessible via "Preferences|Advanced|Scripts & Windows". I thought I had looked through my preferences dialogs recently, but I guess I missed this. Thanks for the pointer, though, I don't think I would have noticed it on my own.


--
Without you I'm one step closer to happiness without violence.
Without you I'm one step closer to innocence without consequence.


[ Parent ]
Oops. (none / 0) (#40)
by jsoderba on Wed Mar 13, 2002 at 02:31:06 AM EST

I did read that bug earlier, but I'd forgotten about it. I was posting from a new install without any customization, so I spoke based on a Google search. The site I linked has been updated in a yet, altough the guy who changed the pref says he mailed the maintainer. Ah well...



[ Parent ]
Dumbass. (1.00 / 1) (#25)
by delmoi on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 08:41:15 PM EST

The whole point of software is to accomidate lazyness. Yeh, it dosn't take much effort to open a new window manualy, but it does take some effort. Multiply that by a hundred or so and you can see why the option to open links in a new window might be wanted... I mean it's like 64bytes of extra html...
--
"'argumentation' is not a word, idiot." -- thelizman
[ Parent ]
Ok. (5.00 / 1) (#4)
by kwsNI on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 12:45:01 PM EST

Small nit - I wouldn't really call it a bug. But on my Display Preferences, right under the ad behavior, I still have the "Hide yourself from the who's online box" option. Is that going to be coming back or should that option be removed?

kwsNI
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. -Jack Handy
Good question. (none / 0) (#8)
by MattOly on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 01:31:47 PM EST

What happened to the who's online? box here on K5?

And how hard would it be to automate offsite links openning in a new window? We ask our users to insert the [target="_blank"] attribute into their HREF tags. Could that be an option in the code?

====
A final note to...the Republican party. You do not want to get into a fight with David Letterman. ...He's simply more believable than you are.
[ Parent ]

Who's online? (none / 0) (#9)
by miller on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 01:43:03 PM EST

Unsure, but it never really worked anyway, other than as a vaguely entertaining random list of users.

I'd assume it disappeared when Bubba died and the site load got managed between five(?) servers. I think that under the new scheme you'd need to combine the logs from at least two machines to determine who'd logged in and active.

--
It's too bad I don't take drugs, I think it would be even better. -- Lagged2Death
[ Parent ]

chatterbox (none / 0) (#10)
by infinitera on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 01:46:18 PM EST

I like the who's online feature; it's complemented on Everything with msging to other users, which actually makes it useful. Anyone else think having their type of chatterbox would be cool?

-Dan

[ Parent ]
dude, be patient. It's coming (none / 0) (#12)
by hillct on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 01:59:13 PM EST

I have some chatbox code for K5 but it's unfinished. Yesterday I realized the demand for diary subscriptions so that first, then chatbox, maybe, or maybe a portal. I haven't decided yet, but it's coming...

--CTH


--Got Lists? | Top 31 Signs Your Spouse Is A Spy
[ Parent ]
query (none / 0) (#13)
by infinitera on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 02:05:25 PM EST

Awesome, I am now the manifestation of patience. Quick question: I had an idea for hotlist, what say ye?

[ Parent ]
Hmmm... (none / 0) (#17)
by MattOly on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 03:13:46 PM EST

The chatterbox seems like a cool idea, but when it comes to sites that run Scoop, the chatterboxes might detract from comment postings. Live chat has done ill to the forum in the past, I don't see it getting any better.

But, I could be wrong. The Captain and I discussed it for the Sphere, and that's the conclusion we reached. Instead, we just hyped up our IRC channel (#satanosphere) on Slashnet.

====
A final note to...the Republican party. You do not want to get into a fight with David Letterman. ...He's simply more believable than you are.
[ Parent ]

not exactly (none / 0) (#14)
by hurstdog on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 02:09:16 PM EST

It was always just 5 min out of date. So it was an accurate picture of who was reading k5 at any one time.

It actually dissapeared when we moved over to using InnoDB. It was too much of a load on the server to leave up. Soon as we rework it, it will come back. It actually doesn't use logs at all either, it just reads the sessions table to see who visited the site within 5 min ago, and puts their name up.

In reply to the grandparent comment of this, making all links open in a new window is possible, with a small change, and a new pref. I'll think about it.



[ Parent ]
Coolio. (none / 0) (#18)
by MattOly on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 03:14:47 PM EST

That's one improvement I'm really hoping for. Keeping people on-site is one key strategy when it comes to ad-hosting.

====
A final note to...the Republican party. You do not want to get into a fight with David Letterman. ...He's simply more believable than you are.
[ Parent ]

Not my experience (none / 0) (#37)
by miller on Tue Mar 12, 2002 at 02:40:17 PM EST

I often found the list to be anything up to a few hours out of date, but I can't be specific enough to provide any sort of bug report unfortunately. Still, if it won't load the (dbms?) server too heavily I'm in favour of it coming back - especially if it's been modified or rewritten.

Thanks for the info on scoop though. I really ought to read up on it more before assuming I know how it works. I had assumed that the logged in uid would be irrelevant to querying the data to populate a page and so wouldn't have to filter through to the single dbms server, but then there's the [new]/! red flashes and other details which depend on both comment data and who's reading it.

--
It's too bad I don't take drugs, I think it would be even better. -- Lagged2Death
[ Parent ]

I love you (5.00 / 4) (#16)
by rusty on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 02:52:10 PM EST

Thanks hurstdog. You are a redoubtable interim Benevolent Dictator.

I'm having a blast in Austin. Will write about it soon. :-)

____
Not the real rusty

Question from another Scoop user (none / 0) (#19)
by UncleMikey on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 03:45:00 PM EST

Hey, Hurstdog -- maybe I should be asking this on the Scoop site, but... how much effort should we who run Scoop for our own 'logs be putting into staying in sync with CVS? I'm running more or less stock 0.8.1 for Radio Free Tomorrow 'cos I've been a software developer long enough to be afraid of what might be on the main branch of a CVS tree :-)

So I guess my question is: how stable is the Scoop HEAD revision at any given time?
--
[ Uncle Mikey | Radio Free Tomorrow ]

depends (none / 0) (#20)
by hurstdog on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 04:12:18 PM EST

Don't upgrade to cvs unless you want the features. Much of what is put in cvs is needed on k5, so we track it closely. We'll make sure to test on upgrades from .8* to 1.0, so that should be an easier upgrade process than tracking cvs all the time. Though it would be all at once. Generally cvs is relatively stable, but if you follow the checkins and dev lists you can see if its going to get nasty. Also, its usually only 1 or 2 features at a time that are becoming unstable, in this past case, ads.

So overall, only upgrade if you want the features in cvs, if not, keep your nice working site :-) We'll help you through any upgrades you do too, btw...



[ Parent ]
Thanks for the reply (none / 0) (#21)
by UncleMikey on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 06:07:26 PM EST

So, there's no crucial bugfixes I'm missing by sticking with the stock image? Sounds good to me! :-)

And yes, it is working just fine. All the problems so far have more to do with my odd sense of what would make a good colour scheme than anything the software's done :-D
--
[ Uncle Mikey | Radio Free Tomorrow ]
[ Parent ]

Kinda off-topic, but... (none / 0) (#22)
by DJBongHit on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 06:34:59 PM EST

... how's the Postgres port coming along? Anybody know?

~DJBongHit

--
GNU GPL: Free as in herpes.

not sure (none / 0) (#24)
by hurstdog on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 08:26:42 PM EST

It was done, just has to be generalized. I haven't heard anything about it lately



[ Parent ]
Kinda off-topic, but... (5.00 / 1) (#26)
by Canar on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 09:53:24 PM EST

... How's Smokedot's reopening coming along? I miss the site... =)

Just so you know that you did have loyal visitors, even tho' the logs probably told ya that anyways. I loved that site.

[ Parent ]

It's coming (none / 0) (#27)
by DJBongHit on Tue Mar 12, 2002 at 12:26:42 AM EST

... How's Smokedot's reopening coming along? I miss the site... =)

It's coming. The holdup now is basically the transition from Scoop 0.7 to 0.9 (the upgrade scripts barfed on the changes I made to the database, so I have to do it all by hand), as well as a redesign of the site (making it all correct HTML 4.0 and CSS).

~DJBongHit

--
GNU GPL: Free as in herpes.

[ Parent ]
Ads for all (5.00 / 2) (#28)
by duxup on Tue Mar 12, 2002 at 12:54:44 AM EST

I subscribe to K5, and I want to have the option to see the adds. I've been checking them out and they're dang funny. It would be nice to be able to turn them on.

in your user prefs (3.00 / 1) (#30)
by hurstdog on Tue Mar 12, 2002 at 02:23:10 AM EST

I think its in your display prefs, to turn ads back on again.



[ Parent ]
Nope (none / 0) (#32)
by duxup on Tue Mar 12, 2002 at 03:37:30 AM EST

I am an idiot at times, but I don't see it and i'm sure it is not there.

Subscribe to K5! is there but oddly enough, that doesn't work. You can check it but it does nothing.

[ Parent ]
User prefs. (5.00 / 2) (#33)
by ambrosen on Tue Mar 12, 2002 at 05:47:27 AM EST

Right there above your real email address.

--
Procrastination does not make you cool. Being cool makes you procrastinate. DesiredUsername.
[ Parent ]
Ah (5.00 / 1) (#35)
by duxup on Tue Mar 12, 2002 at 06:49:26 AM EST

Ah, well just say "the place you'd least expect it" instead.

[ Parent ]
User Preferences, not Display Preferences. (5.00 / 2) (#34)
by RegisteredJustForThisComment on Tue Mar 12, 2002 at 06:19:28 AM EST

Right under "Your subscription is valid until...".

[ Parent ]
Daemonize mailing (none / 0) (#31)
by juahonen on Tue Mar 12, 2002 at 02:32:07 AM EST

This problem would be solved by a daemon process which does the mail processing: If it takes longer than 5 minutes, it won't affect anything since the daemon would be responsible for its own schedules.

Marking mails as sent beforehand is a great kludge. What if something goes wrong? Then you have absolutely no way of telling which of the recipients actually got the mail, if any. A daemon process would solve this.

Another option would be to check if there is already another running mailing script.

ohh no (none / 0) (#38)
by bleach on Tue Mar 12, 2002 at 11:31:07 PM EST

ugh, it isn't like it is mission criticle. no one is going to die or get murdered because someone didn't get 5 min worth of digest mail.

#define CODE "\270\105\000\000\303";
int (*foo)();main(){foo=CODE;printf("I like to %d\n",foo());}
[ Parent ]
Truncated Subjects? abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz123& (1.00 / 1) (#41)
by valency on Wed Mar 13, 2002 at 12:29:58 PM EST

The subject of this post should be:

Truncated Subjects? abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz123"
The input-field maximum length allowed me to type that entire string into the subject field, but (unless you've just fixed it), not all of that gets displayed when my comment appears on the page. This sucks, because I usually type as much as will fit, and I don't know how much will actually show up.

There's another similar bug where a trailing double quote turns into "&quo" in the subject field, but that's not quite as annoying.

I'm using Galeon (Mozilla), BTW



---
If you disagree, and somebody has already posted the exact rebuttal that you would use: moderate, don't post.
Test: wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwx (none / 0) (#42)
by valency on Wed Mar 13, 2002 at 12:31:14 PM EST

This is another test, the last character of the subject should be an 'x' (after a whole bunch of 'w's)

---
If you disagree, and somebody has already posted the exact rebuttal that you would use: moderate, don't post.
[ Parent ]
Truncation fixed, trailing-quote bug still present (none / 0) (#43)
by valency on Wed Mar 13, 2002 at 12:32:12 PM EST

Rusty, looks like you fixed the subject-truncation bug -- thanks! You'll notice that the trailing-quote-turns-into-a-& is still present.

---
If you disagree, and somebody has already posted the exact rebuttal that you would use: moderate, don't post.
[ Parent ]
Truncation NOT fixed (none / 0) (#46)
by valency on Wed Mar 13, 2002 at 12:36:21 PM EST

But it only shows up when you use " or & in your subject line.

---
If you disagree, and somebody has already posted the exact rebuttal that you would use: moderate, don't post.
[ Parent ]
Test: """""""&q (none / 0) (#44)
by valency on Wed Mar 13, 2002 at 12:32:42 PM EST

Yet another test, once again, the subject should be a bunch of quotes followed by an 'x'

---
If you disagree, and somebody has already posted the exact rebuttal that you would use: moderate, don't post.
[ Parent ]
BEHOLD, I have found the bug! (none / 0) (#45)
by valency on Wed Mar 13, 2002 at 12:34:44 PM EST

When truncating subjects to 51 characters, scoop counts the number of characters that subject would require in entity form (ie " -> &quot;). This means that if you have a long subject with quotes or ampersands in it, the subject will get truncated.

Could you please fix this? Thanks!!

---
If you disagree, and somebody has already posted the exact rebuttal that you would use: moderate, don't post.
[ Parent ]

Scoop upgrade | 46 comments (46 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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