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Advertising update.

By Inoshiro in Site News
Mon Mar 18, 2002 at 06:38:55 PM EST
Tags: Kuro5hin.org (all tags)

Advertisements now allow comments attached to them, and are filed their own story section. This should be a good step forward; people who advertise can now get more direct feedback from the users.

Sponsor: rusty
This space intentionally left blank
...because it's waiting for your ad. So why are you still reading this? Come on, get going. Read the story, and then get an ad. Alright stop it. I'm not going to say anything else. Now you're just being silly. STOP LOOKING AT ME! I'm done!
comments (24)
active | buy ad
Update [2002-3-18 18:53:1 by rusty]: Well, that was terse. I was about to post this myself, but I had to go put the chicken in the oven.

Ah-hem. Yes, ads now support discussions. You can comment on any running ad or read existing comments by clicking the obvious little "comment" link below it. Any time you feel inclined to, you may also peruse ad discussions on their section page.

Making an ad commentable is an option you may select when you submit your ad. I urge anyone buying an ad to take advantage of this, because it's neat. But it's up to you.

Finally, ad discussions are real stories, and will not expire when the ad stops running. They will, presumably, have scrolled off the ad section page, but any ongoing discussion will stay open and available. So it's like getting lots of free exposure.

Oh, and ad impressions and click-throughs are not counted due to discussion views. We're generous like that.

But what are ad discussions good for? Frankly, I don't know. I just think it's a cool bizarre idea, so how could we not do it?

Update [2002-3-18 21:1:43 by hurstdog]: The bug should be fixed now where ad discussions were showing up in the rdf feed from k5. Post below if you see anything else odd.

Update [2002-3-18 22:35:3 by Driph]: Because I was just feeling left out.

Update [2002-3-19 12:8:29 by hurstdog]: A few more bugs fixed, ads shouldn't be in digests or the story nav bar any more. Thanks for being alpha testers of my code! ;-)


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Advertising update. | 54 comments (54 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Bug? (4.50 / 2) (#1)
by ucblockhead on Mon Mar 18, 2002 at 06:51:17 PM EST

That's odd...I added an ad, and now two ads are showing in the "your ads" section. One I only previewed. What makes it interesting is that I only paid once...
This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
Um (5.00 / 2) (#3)
by rusty on Mon Mar 18, 2002 at 07:08:32 PM EST

Yeah, there was a bug related to the discussions, but I think it's fixed now.

Both of them showing up is a sort of strange bug/feature of the system that I don't know how to easily get rid of. Basically, once you preview an ad, it exists. If you never pay, it never gets judged or approved or activated, but it's still in there, kind of lurking in limbo.

I'm going to add a little sweeper that clears out these ghost ads after a few days. I haven't done it quite yet though.

Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Ah (3.00 / 1) (#5)
by ucblockhead on Mon Mar 18, 2002 at 07:41:46 PM EST

Part of the problem is that I started signing up in Opera, and that browser's damn cookie bug kept logging me out, so I switched to Mozilla.
This is k5. We're all tools - duxup
[ Parent ]
+1 FP (5.00 / 2) (#2)
by truth versus death on Mon Mar 18, 2002 at 07:05:42 PM EST

This belongs on the front page!

Can't wait to see the inevitable critical posts being requested removed by the advertiser. This should be an enjoyable experiment.

"any erection implies consent"-fae
[ Trim your Bush ]
All stories belong on the front page! (4.00 / 2) (#24)
by tzanger on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 08:56:21 AM EST

And that's exactly how I have my display prefs configured. :-)

[ Parent ]
Yeah, baby! (4.60 / 5) (#4)
by Eloquence on Mon Mar 18, 2002 at 07:30:59 PM EST

I'm always impressed by the pace at which K5 innovates. Beat that, Microsoft! Seriously, this is a very, very cool feature. Is this site the first to have it? In that case, you might get a patent for it ;-).

Possible (ab)uses: 1) Feedback on effectiveness of ad, 2) Feedback on advertised product, 3) Warning of low product quality / scams, 4) Discussion of product usefulness, 5) Discussion of ad content, 6) Jokes about stupidity of ad buyer. Any more?
Copyright law is bad: infoAnarchy Pleasure is good: Origins of Violence
spread the word!

The Freedom to Innovate (4.90 / 10) (#6)
by rusty on Mon Mar 18, 2002 at 07:43:53 PM EST

Yes, K5 has pioneered the user-edited site and advertising comments, at least. Unfortunately we are way behind the curve in not making any money on the web. Many other companies beat us to that particular goalpost. :-)

Seriously, though, it's all hurstdog. I say "Hey hurstdog, it'd be neat if we had this," and then like 15 minutes later, there it is. Sometimes I suspect he spends most of his time inside an old oil lamp, which happens to have some kind of IRC connection.

/rub_lamp hurstdog Hey, I wish ads had discussions.
<hurstdog> It is done Master...

Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Ad Comments (4.60 / 5) (#9)
by Bodero on Mon Mar 18, 2002 at 08:05:17 PM EST

Yes, K5 has pioneered the user-edited site and advertising comments, at least.

Well, to be fair, FARK.com has had advertising comments for quite some time now. But, of course, the intelligence level of the posters there don't exactly do justice to the feature. Still, though, great work.

[ Parent ]

Damn! (5.00 / 2) (#15)
by rusty on Mon Mar 18, 2002 at 09:41:59 PM EST

Wherever we go, there's someone else first. Oh well.

How's it working out for them?

Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Anyway... (4.00 / 1) (#23)
by synaesthesia on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 07:26:29 AM EST

I don't think you can get a patent after the invention goes public - even in the US (which has some sort of bizarre twist in patent law in which the filing date is unimportant and patents are based on some sort of pseudo-provable (i.e., lawyer's-salary-friendly) "invention" date).

Sausages or cheese?
[ Parent ]
Patents (4.66 / 3) (#35)
by rusty on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 12:47:35 PM EST

In any case, patenting this would be silly. I hope everyone steals the idea, and two years from now, all ads are commentable. :-)

Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Defensive patents (4.00 / 4) (#39)
by wiredog on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 12:53:33 PM EST

I hope everyone steals the idea

And if a company like bt or amazon steals it? And then patents it and comes after you for patent infringement? At the very least, make sure you've got some proveable date for when this was implemented. A dated and notarized printout of the story, or something.

Peoples Front To Reunite Gondwanaland: "Stop the Laurasian Separatist Movement!"
[ Parent ]

Witnesses (4.00 / 4) (#40)
by rusty on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 01:13:09 PM EST

I have several thousand witnesses who were here today and saw it start. :-)

Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Oh right (4.60 / 5) (#41)
by wiredog on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 01:14:39 PM EST

Like any jury is going to believe the likes of us. Buncha "Evil Hackers" I'm sure.

Peoples Front To Reunite Gondwanaland: "Stop the Laurasian Separatist Movement!"
[ Parent ]
The Million K5er March (5.00 / 5) (#42)
by rusty on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 01:21:48 PM EST

How great would it be if that happened, and we had to go to court, and we got, say, 2,000 of you to come out and testify. They'd just have to sit there as one after another took the stand and swore that you witnessed us launch ad comments on March 18th 2002. That's like 7 full 24-hour days worth of testimony. That'd be the best thing ever. :-)

Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Depends. (3.66 / 3) (#43)
by ambrosen on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 01:33:32 PM EST

On who pays the court costs, doesn't it.

Procrastination does not make you cool. Being cool makes you procrastinate. DesiredUsername.
[ Parent ]
Uh huh (4.83 / 6) (#44)
by wiredog on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 01:37:31 PM EST

Among the character witnesses will be people with names like "DJBongHit", "spiralx", "wiredog", "Driph", and other similar examples of the fine upstanding members of this fine site. A collection of people with past (or current) histories of alcohol and drug abuse, inability to hold a job (or girlfriend), and miscellaneous tattoos, metal inserted in strange places, and bad haircuts. By that time, DMCA Mark V will have been passed, and you'll be sentenced to 20 years as a webmonkey in San Francisco.

Peoples Front To Reunite Gondwanaland: "Stop the Laurasian Separatist Movement!"
[ Parent ]
Subscribed members (4.00 / 1) (#7)
by ODiV on Mon Mar 18, 2002 at 07:58:35 PM EST

Is there any way subscribed users can see all the ads if they've got ads turned off?

I suppose I'll just turn them on and bookmark the all ads page.

[ odiv.net ]
i agree (3.00 / 1) (#50)
by blankbox on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 07:11:56 PM EST

i don't think i'll ever subscribe to K5 because i want to see the ads!

I just went to the hi-HO ad and it added to my delight with text ads.

[ Parent ]

two possible issues (4.00 / 1) (#8)
by Delirium on Mon Mar 18, 2002 at 08:04:53 PM EST

  1. When your ad first went up, I clicked on the "comments?" link and got the "no such story" error. The comments link worked for all the other ads, and after about 15-20 minutes now works for this ad as well. Is there a lag between ad posting and comments-area availability, or was this a one-time problem?
  2. The links "all" (to the comments) and "active" (to just the ads) are misleadingly named, because the "all" link only shows comments for still-active ads. Perhaps "all" should show all previously-posted ads, regardless of current status?

Bugs (5.00 / 1) (#16)
by rusty on Mon Mar 18, 2002 at 09:48:17 PM EST

  1. Just a bug. It was fixed when you noticed it started working. It should work as you'd expect now.
  2. "All" goes to the ad section. This really is "all" ads tha have discussions, but it's still not a great name. "Active" goes to the former "all ads" page, which is really just all currently active ads. I want to rename them. What should they be?

Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
naming (4.00 / 1) (#17)
by Delirium on Mon Mar 18, 2002 at 10:04:04 PM EST

Yeah, by itself "all" isn't a horrible name, it's when its right next to "active" that it's confusing, since it implies that one link takes you to all the ads, while the other takes you only to the active ads.

I'd probably rename "active" to "all ads" and "all" to "discussions", or something along those lines.

[ Parent ]

Archived? (3.00 / 1) (#21)
by WhiteBandit on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 02:28:51 AM EST

Or maybe just "Active Ads" and "Archived Ads" ?

[ Parent ]
well (3.00 / 1) (#45)
by Delirium on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 02:02:42 PM EST

I think the idea is that both links will only display active ads -- the "archived" ads aren't displayed anywhere (or else people might think it wasn't worth it to renew their ads).

[ Parent ]
Problem with RDF feeds? (4.50 / 2) (#10)
by ghjm on Mon Mar 18, 2002 at 08:08:46 PM EST

It looks like the ads are appearing in the XML for outgoing RDF/RSS feeds, even though they don't appear in the "Everything" category...which is what I always assumed was driving the RDF. Is this what you intended?


Yes, this is annoying. (4.00 / 1) (#11)
by joshsisk on Mon Mar 18, 2002 at 08:14:05 PM EST

Please, please fix this. I reply on RSS feeds to get much of my headlines. This cuts down on the amount of real headlines.
logjamming.com : web hosting for weblogs, NOT gay lumberjack porn
[ Parent ]
bug (5.00 / 2) (#13)
by hurstdog on Mon Mar 18, 2002 at 08:32:38 PM EST

Thanks for the bug report. We'll fix this asap.

[ Parent ]
Patent the idea, quick!!! (4.75 / 4) (#12)
by jabber on Mon Mar 18, 2002 at 08:22:08 PM EST

I'm serious.. Get some hook into the concept of discussions attached to ads.. The big-time advertisers would both love, and benefit from the knowledge that most of their web and TV adverts insult their customer into going elsewhere, even if the product is actually decent..

[TINK5C] |"Is K5 my kapusta intellectual teddy bear?"| "Yes"

Prior Art (4.33 / 3) (#18)
by Wah on Mon Mar 18, 2002 at 10:38:35 PM EST

ahh, fark it.

And I'm sure someone else has done it before them. And I doubt someone like X-10 would like 10,000 posts all saying how annoyed they were that the dang thing popped up.

Ohh, and maybe we should add discussions to the dictionary while we're at it.
Choas and order, flowing down the drain of time. Ain't it purdy? | SSP
[ Parent ]

One oddity (5.00 / 1) (#14)
by wiredog on Mon Mar 18, 2002 at 09:40:00 PM EST

The voting stats show up on the ad discussion pages. This is, of course, because the regular story code is used to draw the ads, but it still looks odd.

Peoples Front To Reunite Gondwanaland: "Stop the Laurasian Separatist Movement!"
Just a stupid idea... (5.00 / 1) (#52)
by Chancellor Martok on Tue Mar 26, 2002 at 03:19:19 AM EST

Hehe, wouldn't it be cool if ads could be voted into oblivion just because enough of us hated it... c'mon, let's try that one for a Kuro5hin first! :P

Chancellor Martok  in Sydney, Australia
"Castrate instead. That can surely rehabilitate. I did it volunatrily, and my grades went up!"  -- Sen

[ Parent ]
formatting (3.00 / 1) (#19)
by infinitera on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 01:15:10 AM EST

I liked the old [all|active] ads page, you could see all the ads without too much clicking of next. The way they are in section has too much white space, clicking, and redundant info (commentsx2 for example). Is there a happy medium that can be reached?

never mind, I'm dumb; active still works [nt] (2.00 / 1) (#28)
by infinitera on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 10:06:58 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Buglet? (3.00 / 1) (#20)
by strepsil on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 02:20:50 AM EST

I'm pretty sure I've done everything right ...

My preferences are set to NOT open ad links in a new window, and this works on the front page, at least. In the ad discussion pages however, all ad links seem to open up in new windows.

Is this happening to anyone else?

Yes... (3.00 / 1) (#22)
by Yer Mom on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 04:54:19 AM EST

...and it's bloody annoying.

I wish Opera had a "Don't open things in a new window EVER unless I tell you" option to go with the popup blocker.
Smoke crack. Worship Satan. Admin Unix.
[ Parent ]

How bout now? (4.00 / 1) (#38)
by rusty on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 12:52:11 PM EST

Ok, I think it should be fixed. Is it?

Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Yep! (4.00 / 1) (#51)
by strepsil on Wed Mar 20, 2002 at 06:02:28 AM EST

I'm happy now. No more unexpected windows. :)

[ Parent ]
PO BOX? (3.00 / 1) (#25)
by billt on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 09:04:08 AM EST

Any news on when the PO box pay option will be available?


PO Box (3.00 / 1) (#37)
by rusty on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 12:50:30 PM EST

Argh. Still on the list. I will do it, I promise.

Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
note. (3.42 / 7) (#26)
by Defect on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 09:20:37 AM EST

btw, Driph > *
defect - jso - joseth || a link
Unintentional feature. (4.00 / 1) (#27)
by ambrosen on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 09:29:24 AM EST

The story browsing bars (just after the <!-- end story body --> comment) include the advert discussions in things people might want to browse to. Which I don't think is what was meant.

Procrastination does not make you cool. Being cool makes you procrastinate. DesiredUsername.
ayi (5.00 / 1) (#30)
by hurstdog on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 10:57:28 AM EST

Another bug. Thanks for letting us know. We need to get some global "don't included this in regular stories" list of sections...

[ Parent ]
"Put the chicken in the oven?" (3.75 / 4) (#29)
by Echo5ive on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 10:47:08 AM EST

Is that innuendo for something?

Frozen Skies: mental masturbation.

Yes (4.33 / 3) (#36)
by rusty on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 12:48:54 PM EST

Actually, no. I was roasting a chicken, and I had to put it in the oven so it would be done when my wife got home.

I'm sorry, but out here on the island, we just don't do anything interesting enough to get a euphemism like that. :-)

Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Digest E-mail needs attention (4.00 / 1) (#31)
by bill_mcgonigle on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 11:37:06 AM EST

Today's Digest E-mail contained 7 ad 'stories' and 4 actualy stories, one of which was about the ad 'stories'.

Doh! (5.00 / 1) (#33)
by hurstdog on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 11:50:41 AM EST

Another bug! We'll fix it quick. *sheepish coding*

[ Parent ]
Rusty is a genius (3.00 / 5) (#32)
by QuantumG on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 11:43:48 AM EST

Mark my words. He's gunna change the way web advertising works.

Gun fire is the sound of freedom.
how about.... (4.83 / 6) (#34)
by jayfoo2 on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 12:35:35 PM EST

Now that there is a story page for each ad a nice feature might be to allow the buyer to put some copy up (where the story text would go).

This could make ads more effective (and thus purchased more).

In the case of ads that are actually trying to sell something the poster could use that space for a testimonial, some detailed copy, or some good old fashon begging.

For ads that are purchased MLPs the poster could use the space to explain why they're buying the ad.

Granted the buyer can always just slap a comment on the story if they want to, but since they are buying it why not give them primacy of place (location location location baby).

bug report (3.50 / 2) (#46)
by KnightStalker on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 04:27:41 PM EST

After clicking through to the last page in the ad section, I got a page containing no ads and two links to the previous page. Not exactly a showstopper bug, but I thought I'd mention it :)

This will probably change, but the URL I saw it at is: http://www.kuro5hin.org/section/advertisements/5

overboard (2.20 / 5) (#47)
by clean on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 04:27:43 PM EST

It's an ad, I couldn't care less what other people think about an ad. This is discussion overkill.

then don't read them (4.75 / 4) (#49)
by hurstdog on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 06:09:01 PM EST

Some people like the discussions, I am one of them. Thanks for the input though.

[ Parent ]
Older Stories (5.00 / 2) (#48)
by Kellnerin on Tue Mar 19, 2002 at 05:05:40 PM EST

Down the right-hand column is showing far more ads than real stories right now ... (that's with my default of the Everything page, no section box on the left).

--got to be a way to make it sweeter, little more like lemon meringue--
better targeting for ads? (none / 0) (#53)
by Lazy Jones on Sun Apr 07, 2002 at 10:42:26 PM EST

For us Europeans wanting to promote content in Europe of interest only to Europeans, an option to target advertisements to specific countries (using an IP address database!) would be invaluable... Depending on how many people outside the US read kuro5hin, this might also be more or less interesting for advertisers in the US (e.g. an online shop that can't accept offers from overseas).

Here's an IP address database (none / 0) (#54)
by Lazy Jones on Mon Apr 08, 2002 at 07:53:56 AM EST

... together with a Perl module to access and update it. Very useful ;-).

CPAN Link.

[ Parent ]

Advertising update. | 54 comments (54 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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