Kuro5hin.org: technology and culture, from the trenches
create account | help/FAQ | contact | links | search | IRC | site news
[ Everything | Diaries | Technology | Science | Culture | Politics | Media | News | Internet | Op-Ed | Fiction | Meta | MLP ]
We need your support: buy an ad | premium membership

[P]
The Joy of Text (Ads)

By rusty in Site News
Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:53:36 PM EST
Tags: Kuro5hin.org (all tags)
Kuro5hin.org

I swore they'd be launched today. It's already been way too long since OSDN pulled the plug, and my wife is starting to get awfully worried about the bills. So there I was last night, around 10 o'clock, having just finished a twelve hour day writing the credit card billing code. I announced a Text Ad test period on #K5. And then the lights went out.

I mean, literally, the power went out. The foghorns blew and the wind howled, and inside the house, it got eerily quiet with no whirring little case fans. But was I daunted? Did I curse this ill fate? No, not I. I dug out my headlamp, fired up the laptop, plugged it into the phone jack, and got back to work. It was a very Bruce Sterling moment.

The upshot of all of this is that Text Ads are finally here.


What are Text Ads?

Pioneered by Google, text ads are small, unintrusive advertisements that buck the online marketing trend of "bigger and more annoying." They are instead based on the radical thinking that annoying people isn't a good way to make friends or gain customers.

Text ads have gained some popularity around the net, especially on sites that have a strong community feel. MetaFilter, NewsIsFree and a growing host of other sites have picked up on the idea. And now they've (finally) come to K5.

How does it work?

In a little while, I'll start the actual ads displaying. They'll show up initially on the top left corner of the section indexes (including the front page), where the "Subscribe to K5" box is now. Depending on demand, we may put them elsewhere on the site as well, later. It's just a small text box, with a title (linked to another site), and a message. Simple as that. I believe that people come here (at least in part) to read, and look at links, so they don't fight the grain of what you're already here to do. Also, I hope that you will all use them as they're meant to be used: to inform the K5 community about things you think they'd be interested in.

So anyone can get an ad?

Don't you like my leading section headers? Yes, anyone can buy an ad. Just go here to get started. You'll read some introductory information, agree to some common sense terms, then you design your ad, entering a title, a link, and a short blurb. Choose a payment method (currently Visa, Mastercard, or Paypal), fill out the payment form, and you're done. Trust me, it's easy.

If you don't feel like trying it now, there's always a link in your user box (right underneath "New Diary Entry").

What do they cost?

Ads are $3.00 per thousand. That is, what you're buying are "impressions", which means that every time your ad shows up on J. Random K5er's page, we subtract an impression from your total. The minimum purchase is 4,000 impressions, which comes to twelve bucks. Of course, you can buy as many impressions as you want (I think the limit for one purchase is a million). All the ads are rotated together, so I can't exactly predict how many days or weeks any given number of ads will run. It depends on a lot of factors. We'll try to manage the ad rotation so as to provide a reasonable time period for any campaign, but at the beginning, we may have some tuning to do.

Why are you still reading this?

Go try it already!

Oh, you don't think you have anything to advertise? Don't think within the classic marketing box, man! It's twelve bucks. Surely you have something you wish you could draw more attention to. Got a weblog? Do you work on an open source project? Is there a website you wish more people knew about? Be clever. Come up with an ad for something no on would ever have considered advertising for before. Just because you can.

Of course, all ads are reviewed before they go live. No, ads for that site will not be accepted (you know the one I'm thinking of, and it ain't Slashdot). If we find an ad inappropriate, you will always get an email explaining why. I don't expect it to be a big problem though, and a more detailed version of the rules is on the first ad submission page.

What next?

We have lots of idea to make this more interesting and useful, including options to restrict ads to display only in certain sections, only at certain times of day, or only to people in certain places (if people are willing to voluntarily locate themselves geographically). We may introduce new types of ads, put them in different places, or allow different options. This is, I think, only a starting place.

Since I know someone's going to ask it, yes, now that we can accept credit cards, we will soon be taking those for paid memberships too. I'm working on making memberships more valuable in and of themselves, and there will be news on that front in the near future too. But it's not quite ready yet. If you're interested in that kind of thing, tell me what you'd like to see offered for paid members.

Also, try out the ads and let us know what you like, what you don't like, and what you'd like to see offered there. I hope people find them as entertaining as I do, both to create and to look at, and I know you'll come up with some that will surprise me. And on top of it all, you'll have that warm fuzzy feeling that comes from knowing that just by buying a couple ads, my cats will have food next month. Oh, and that K5 will stay around too.

Sponsors

Voxel dot net
o Managed Hosting
o VoxCAST Content Delivery
o Raw Infrastructure

Login

Related Links
o Slashdot
o Google
o headlamp
o Bruce Sterling
o Text Ads
o Google [2]
o MetaFilter
o NewsIsFree
o here
o try it
o ad submission
o try out the ads
o Also by rusty


Display: Sort:
The Joy of Text (Ads) | 271 comments (262 topical, 9 editorial, 0 hidden)
Credit cards for subscription (2.42 / 7) (#1)
by highenergystar on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:04:35 PM EST

Sorry i came in late on this...is there a reason that credit cards arent accepted for subscription? The primary reason i haven't subscribed yet is the association with paypal(with whom i have had a nasty experience). Is there an address i can send a check to(email address to highenergystar@yahoo.com)? Are there plans to accept credit cards for subscriptions?

Not reading all the way to the bottom, eh? (3.80 / 5) (#3)
by rusty on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:07:55 PM EST

Since I know someone's going to ask it, yes, now that we can accept credit cards, we will soon be taking those for paid memberships too.
The credit card payment stuff is brand new (like one day old) and I haven't got it tied in with subscriptions yet. Soon.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
E-gold (5.00 / 1) (#163)
by John Milton on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:50:56 PM EST

I left a comment in your diary the other day, but I don't think you'll see it. What about the e-gold option for both subscribers and ad buyers. I can use paypal too, but I really do hate their site. Anyways, I have to say that I like the textads.

P.S. Discover Card is much nicer than Visa or Mastercard companies.


"When we consider that woman are treated as property, it is degrading to women that we should Treat our children as property to be disposed of as we see fit." -Elizabeth Cady Stanton


[ Parent ]
E-gold / Discover (5.00 / 1) (#168)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:58:49 PM EST

E-gold I want to support, but I just haven't found the time to work out what they require yet. I will try to.

Discover we did sign up for, but they sent me some incomprehensible letter about "invalid domain name" and I had no idea what they meant. Then I considered the rates they charge, and decided it wasn't worth my effort finding out. Discover sucks, and I frankly urge you not to use them. You know that lovely cash back they give you? They get it by screwing the merchant, and screwing you too while they're at it. Basically, they take a lot more of the transaction than any other CC co, and hold all that money in an account, and then give you back about 1/3 of the principal after they've earned a lot of interest on it. It's such a scam.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Ads vs Subscriptions (4.25 / 4) (#6)
by makaera on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:16:14 PM EST

Are these ads supposed to be hidden from subscribers who have turned ads off? Nowhere is this issue addressed, but I am seeing the ads even though ads are turned off in my preferences.

"Ninety rounds in there," Joel Andrews said. "If you can't take it down with 90 rounds, you better turn in your badge!" -- from Washington Post

D'oh! (3.50 / 4) (#7)
by rusty on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:18:16 PM EST

I knew there would be bugs. Sorry about that. Be fixed in a jiffy.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
No biggie (4.00 / 3) (#9)
by makaera on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:20:53 PM EST

Well, I must confess that I've already clicked on an ad (or two) and seen some things that I wouldn't've seen otherwise, so maybe I'll just browse with them on for a while.

"Ninety rounds in there," Joel Andrews said. "If you can't take it down with 90 rounds, you better turn in your badge!" -- from Washington Post
[ Parent ]

On (3.50 / 2) (#14)
by rusty on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:28:38 PM EST

You can always turn them back on in your user prefs, should you find yourself not annoyed by them. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Watch Out! (4.50 / 2) (#34)
by martman on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:55:09 PM EST

Avert your eyes children! His honeyed words drip in our ears bearing not his ulterior motives! Ok, so his ulterior motives are making the site work good, but still... beware! :)

[ Parent ]
Ok (3.50 / 2) (#10)
by rusty on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:20:55 PM EST

Should be fixed now. Is it?

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Yep (3.50 / 2) (#25)
by garth on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:42:50 PM EST

Show ads to Yes brings up ads. Show ads to No and no ads show up. If only all bugs were so easy to fix :-)

[ Parent ]
But they are! (3.50 / 2) (#65)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:03:04 AM EST

The glory that is Scoop. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Subscribers always see ads? (4.00 / 4) (#8)
by garth on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:19:18 PM EST

The option for subscribers not to see ads doesn't seem to be working. If I have it "Show Ads" preference set to No, I still get the ads on the front page.

_That_ site? (2.66 / 9) (#11)
by LilDebbie on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:24:08 PM EST

Do you mean this one?

Sorry, had to. And for anyone who isn't aware of the joke, DO NOT follow that link. This is for your own well being.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

My God.. It's full of arse! (3.00 / 2) (#22)
by jabber on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:41:07 PM EST

I thought it went down.. What gives??

[TINK5C] |"Is K5 my kapusta intellectual teddy bear?"| "Yes"
[ Parent ]

Though he is dead... (3.33 / 3) (#29)
by LilDebbie on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:48:03 PM EST

...his unholy image will live on. Seriously, that will likely remain a cultural bedrock of the internet for centuries.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
Who's paying for it?? (eom) (2.50 / 2) (#32)
by jabber on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:51:35 PM EST

.

[TINK5C] |"Is K5 my kapusta intellectual teddy bear?"| "Yes"
[ Parent ]

Coming soon - goatse.cx textads... (4.40 / 5) (#39)
by enterfornone on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:06:52 PM EST



--
efn 26/m/syd
Will sponsor new accounts for porn.
[ Parent ]
No... (5.00 / 2) (#178)
by J'raxis on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 02:30:55 PM EST

It will NEVER die…

— The Raxse.cx

[ J’raxis·Com | Liberty in your lifetime ]
[ Parent ]

For those overseas (3.50 / 2) (#15)
by Phage on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:29:48 PM EST

I presume this is all in US Dollars ?

Also, on reading the rules, it appears that we cannot use HTML tags. Is that correct ?
If so, how do we do a link ?

If I have been dumb, I apologise in advance...


I don't find Heathens to be sexy, as a general rule.
Canthros

Try it :-) (4.33 / 3) (#18)
by rusty on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:33:03 PM EST

This is hopefully all self-explanatory when you actually go make an ad, but you enter the URL you want to link to in it's own little box. The ad code will link it all up for you.

Also, yes, all prices are in USD. From my previous request for information, it seemed that Visa and MC are prevalent nearly everywhere, and as far as I know there should be no problem using those no matter where you're from.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Dunkin' Donuts? (4.33 / 3) (#16)
by sticky on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:30:54 PM EST

Congratulations on your first corporate sponsor rusty. Did they really buy ads or is it just a K5er with too much money and not enough to do with it?


Don't eat the shrimp.---God
It's worth the trip (4.33 / 3) (#19)
by rusty on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:37:19 PM EST

My Dad has worked for Dunkin forever, so it was a natural for him. We'll see if their marketing department picks up on it. I urge you all to visit that one, if only to leave a puzzled sysadmin at dunkindonuts.com wondering what this kuro-five-hin thing is. :-)

(Oh, you can order coffee online too. Any ex-New Engladers out there miss your Dunkies?)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

We don't have them up in Canada. (3.33 / 3) (#26)
by sticky on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:43:09 PM EST

I visited the site anyway though. If I'm ever in New England I'll visit one and tell them I heard about them on K5. Sharing any donuts you receive as compensation would be appreciated.


Don't eat the shrimp.---God
[ Parent ]
I bet you do (3.00 / 2) (#27)
by rusty on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:46:55 PM EST

Dunkin's all over the place. Sure, the concentration is higher in New England (it's like the breeding ground) but they're as far afield as Greece and Korea at this point. I'd be surprised if there weren't any in Canada.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
You're right (3.33 / 3) (#38)
by sticky on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:06:33 PM EST

Apparently there are quite a few back east, in Ontario and Quebec. I don't think I've ever seen one here in Vancouver though. The Tim Horton's/Robins duopoly pretty much has a stranglehold in the donut market around here.

In case you didn't know, us Canucks take donuts VERY seriously. We have the highest per-capita consumption of donuts in the world (and we don't have an exceptionally large police force). Krispy Kreme, who supposedly offer very fine donuts, were hesitant about entering the Canadian market due to the intense competition and overall high quality product offered here.

Hmmm...all this talk about donuts is making me hungry.


Don't eat the shrimp.---God
[ Parent ]
Krispy Kreme (3.66 / 3) (#42)
by rusty on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:11:22 PM EST

KK is evil. Evil and wrong and disgusting and deeply, fundamentally, not doughnuts. I think if anyplace in the US can come close to Canada's doughnut fetish, it would have to be New England, the home of Dunkin Donuts, purveyors of real, actual donuts, not plastic gasket rings coated in sugar.

I'm not surprised they're sparse out west though. It's the same way here. It's hard to find a Dunkin in California.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Interesting (3.00 / 2) (#47)
by sticky on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:21:20 PM EST

Maybe I got the impression of quality from their PR hacks. That could be the real reason they were hesitant about Canada; people won't eat a crappy donut when there's always a Tim Horton's around the corner.


Don't eat the shrimp.---God
[ Parent ]
Do not listen to rusty the donut oppressor! (none / 0) (#217)
by trhurler on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 08:02:41 PM EST

Krispy Kreme donuts are awe inspiringly good.

--
'God dammit, your posts make me hard.' --LilDebbie

[ Parent ]
Bah (3.66 / 3) (#51)
by medham on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:26:09 PM EST

If I want a bagel, I'll order a bagel. KK donuts have the sweetness and flavor I expect from the donut-family of products.

The real 'medham' has userid 6831.
[ Parent ]

You like paying for ait? (3.66 / 3) (#62)
by Anonymous 242 on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:47:10 PM EST

Kristy Kreme donuts fail to pass Lee's two fold breakfast test.

(1) Distrust any food item larger than Lee's mouth of which multiple units can fit within Lee's mouth prior to Lee chewing said item. (I can fit three to five Krispy Kreme donuts in my mouth.)

(2) Distrust any food item of significant size of which it takes a dozen or more to satisfy Lee's hunger. (This reminds me of debating a friend on the frugality of buying whole wheat bread which costs $3 per loaf vs. white bread at twenty-five cents per loaf. My comment was that it takes an entire loaf of white bread, being mostly air, to equal the nutritive value of two slices of decent whole wheat bread.)

[ Parent ]

Krispy Kreme (3.50 / 2) (#118)
by Yer Mom on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 05:26:40 AM EST

(I can fit three to five Krispy Kreme donuts in my mouth.)
Pictures, please :)
--
Smoke crack. Worship Satan. Admin Unix.
[ Parent ]
Krispy Kreme considered harmful? (3.00 / 2) (#79)
by Kyle on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:40:23 AM EST

Is there something actually wrong with Krispy Kreme doughnuts, or do you just not like them? If they really are space alien mind control gaskets, I'd like to know before I eat tomorrow's dozen.

[ Parent ]

Competition (3.00 / 1) (#122)
by bgarcia on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 07:02:15 AM EST

Read the parent posts by Rusty.

He's already said that his dad works for Dunkin Donuts. It's only natural that all competitors are perceived as the spawn of satan. ;^)

Me, I like them both. Here in Cranberry PA we have a brand new Krispy-Kreme store in the shopping center, and an old, run-down Dunkin Donuts down on the wrong-side of the highway. If Dunkin wants to stay in business, they better clean up and relocate. Otherwise, I'm afraid their days are numbered here. The KK is always packed, while Dunkin always looks deserted.

[ Parent ]

California Donuts (3.00 / 1) (#85)
by Kalani on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 01:08:17 AM EST

Some of the best donuts I've ever had have been at "Dad's Donuts" in Balboa Island, CA (that's in Orange County, near Newport Beach). There's also Disneyland in Anaheim (they've got some OK pasty snacks inside the park -- I used to get in for free via my dad's friend Bart, who had a psychiatrist named Homer but that's another story).

-----
"I [think] that ultimately physics will not require a mathematical statement; in the end the machinery will be revealed and the laws will turn out to be simple, like the checker board."
--Richard Feynman
[ Parent ]
virgin (4.00 / 2) (#86)
by h2odragon on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 01:11:08 AM EST

you have apparently not yet experianced the sublime bliss of the krispy kreme donut straight off the line and still too hot to hold.

When cold, well, then there's more room for debate.

[ Parent ]

sublime bliss (3.00 / 1) (#127)
by wiredog on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 08:28:46 AM EST

Yeah. The Krispy Kreme bakery on Rt 1 in Alexandria. The wonderful perfume emanating from the deep fryers. The funky fifties architecture. The melt-in-your-mouth goodness.

I love the smell of donuts in the morning. Smells like. Victory.

Peoples Front To Reunite Gondwanaland: "Stop the Laurasian Separatist Movement!"
[ Parent ]

ohmy (3.00 / 1) (#129)
by h2odragon on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 08:43:19 AM EST

i do beleive that you speak of the same establishment wherein i first encountered the true krispy kreme experiance. I know for a fact that the days inn motel up the street has at least one customer loyal for no other reason than their proximity to the blessed donut dispensary.

small world.

[ Parent ]

How dare you malign God's chosen donut? (none / 0) (#216)
by trhurler on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 08:00:38 PM EST

And in favor of shit like Dunkin' Donuts? Damn, man. They pulled out of StL because of some crap about a corporate policy on coffee sales, but I hated them anyway; their donuts are just not good.

Krispy Kreme plain cake donuts are the official donut of the Savior!

--
'God dammit, your posts make me hard.' --LilDebbie

[ Parent ]
D_Doughnuts (3.00 / 3) (#30)
by Phage on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:48:09 PM EST

Were indelibly etched on my memeory during a short visit there some years ago. Between this and johnny's diary, I am going to have to go out and get something to eat...


I don't find Heathens to be sexy, as a general rule.
Canthros
[ Parent ]

Desperately (none / 0) (#187)
by UncleMikey on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 04:08:32 PM EST

(Oh, you can order coffee online too. Any ex-New Engladers out there miss your Dunkies?)

See subject. Minnesota used to have them, I'm told, but not since I've been here (6 years, now).
--
[ Uncle Mikey | Radio Free Tomorrow ]
[ Parent ]

Voluntary ad viewing (4.62 / 8) (#17)
by blues is dead on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:31:47 PM EST

Hmm, I don't know if this has been beaten to death. But does anyone know if we can just look at all the ads on one quick page? (Without of course counting towards everyone's impressions, or just like .01 impression.)

To my mind, it's like a bunch of posts, except concise and someone thought they were worth paying for.

All ads page (4.66 / 6) (#20)
by rusty on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:37:55 PM EST

It's on the todo list. I should have something whipped up tomorrow. I'll add an "all ads" link to the adbox when it's ready.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Sorting (4.00 / 4) (#23)
by Phage on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:41:27 PM EST

Would we be able to sort by category ? ie per a dead-tree classifieds ?


I don't find Heathens to be sexy, as a general rule.
Canthros
[ Parent ]

Categories (3.00 / 1) (#137)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 09:37:37 AM EST

We don't really have categories. We can sort by ad type, but right now there's only one type too. So it'll be more like an unordered list, I think.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Interesting (3.66 / 3) (#33)
by martman on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:52:48 PM EST

So do you mean a page which the user can go to where they can just scroll through all the text ads (say 50 ads per page, or something)? Probably sorted into categories, and perhaps with a link to user comments on the ads?

Sounds like a lot of work. Almost like a whole new site. I don't think anyone wants kuro5hin to become Yahoo!. If you still think it's a good idea though: wherefore? and do you think you'd even go to the page more than a couple of times before becoming disinterested?

[ Parent ]
It is useful. (4.33 / 3) (#101)
by Tezcatlipoca on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 03:37:17 AM EST

Sometimes you decide an ad is of interest once you have left the page where it appeared. The back button is of no much help.

Many printed magazines have an index of advertisers so you can find quickly information about the gadget you saw. That comes handy in magazines of 100+ pages and will come even handier in a website.
---
"At eighteen our convictions are hills from which we look;
at forty-five they are caves in which we hide." F. Scott Fitzgerald.
[ Parent ]
Think of it as a K5 Classifieds Section :-) (4.00 / 1) (#157)
by UncleMikey on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 11:16:55 AM EST

Except, of course, that Rusty's made it clear that ads are not actually classified -- that is, they're not actually divided into categories. I think actual classification would be an intersting addition, but I can also see where people might start suspecting Rusty was turning into a target-marketeer. As if!
--
[ Uncle Mikey | Radio Free Tomorrow ]
[ Parent ]
i don't mind text ads (3.50 / 4) (#21)
by walkah on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:40:31 PM EST

particularly if they stay in the little box there. it sure beats those big ugly flashing, moving, fullscreen ads that the other site is threatening to use.

if it keeps quality sites around... so be it.

Who writes these things? (4.50 / 6) (#31)
by Anonymous 242 on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 10:50:20 PM EST

I've already seen three ads funny enough to make me laugh out loud.

Is there a way to find out who ran what ad?

Well (4.33 / 3) (#36)
by rusty on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:03:39 PM EST

I've been thinking about whether or not there should be a "sponsor" link in there too. Like, a link to the user who submitted the ad. What do you all think?

You can see what ads someone has submitted if you go to their ad page. Like, mine is /~rusty/ads for example. But so far there's no clear link the other way (from an ad to a person).

When I get the "See all ads" page together, there will probably be a link to the sponsor with each one. Should it be on the "live" display too?

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Go for it (4.00 / 3) (#56)
by martman on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:34:05 PM EST

i'd say even a small font 'sponsor: foo' would be fine, either at the bottom of the box or under the box next to 'get an ad' would be a bit cramped. On the other hand, I sometimes would want to find out who posted the ad. So maybe a small icon of some sort which would link to the sponsor?

[ Parent ]
Make it optional? (4.75 / 4) (#63)
by skullY on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:49:44 PM EST

Perhaps you could give the sponsor the choice to be vain or not? :)

A simple checkbox when you buy the ad to include a "sponsored by" footer may not be too hard to do, and would be a good compromise.

--
I'm not witty enough for a sig.
[ Parent ]

My thought (4.50 / 4) (#68)
by fluffy grue on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:12:26 AM EST

You should make it so that there's a little ? link in the upper-right corer, like <p align="right">[ <a href="/user/fluffy%20grue"> ]</a> or something.
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

Sponsor link, and discussion (5.00 / 2) (#105)
by kzin on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 04:22:28 AM EST

I'd sure like be able to post comments and see comments posted about the trhurler ad, and on others as well. The sponsor should be able to choose whether they do or do not want that feature for their ad, of course. If they're smart they'll enable it, because it can increase the brain-exposure to their ad by a hundredfold.

[ Parent ]
I agree (4.00 / 3) (#41)
by WhiteBandit on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:08:23 PM EST

It's neat to see a lot of the users of the site chipping in and buying ads. I've never really seen text ads before, and I've *never* seen users of a site buy banner ads.

I agree, I've come across quite a few hilarious ads from some users. I've caught myself reloading the main page a few times just to see what pops up next :-

For some reason, one of the funnier ones I have come across is trhurler's. He links to his kuro5hin user page! Haha, but right on for supporting this site.

Rusty, I do think there should be a sponsered by link on the live ads though. :-)

Until next time,

Dave

(My first kuro5hin comment!! :)

[ Parent ]
Never? (3.66 / 3) (#52)
by fluffy grue on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:26:27 PM EST

I've bought ad space on Brunching Shuttlecocks. Pity my impressions only lasted for about a day before they all got burned up. :)
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

Brunching (4.50 / 2) (#66)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:04:56 AM EST

If you happen to be in touch with Lore, tell him banners suck, and he should get textads. I thought about getting a banner for K5 there, but I was (A) too lazy to make a banner, and (B) unwilling to add to the total sum of banners already on the net.

Maybe I still will though, someday. I'd be all over textads there though.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Email him (3.00 / 2) (#70)
by fluffy grue on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:18:44 AM EST

I'm sure you've got a better reparté with him, what with 0ZZY RULES!!! and so on.
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]
[ Parent ]

Ah (3.00 / 2) (#77)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:30:26 AM EST

I never actually talked to him. Course, now I know what it's like running a site, but I still feel like I'm too small-time and new to email Lore. He's a hero of mine. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
small-time? (4.66 / 3) (#96)
by Delirium on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 03:17:06 AM EST

You are an INTERNET CELEBRITY, even recognized by THE COMMANDER OF TACOS HIMSELF as running a forum with a PERFECT MODERATION SYSTEM. Quite a feat, that.

[ Parent ]
hear hear! (4.50 / 2) (#97)
by martman on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 03:25:00 AM EST

Three cheers for rusty! Hip-Hip! ...

"Everybody wants to save the earth; nobody wants to help Mom do the dishes."
--P. J. O'Rourke

[ Parent ]
horray! (4.00 / 1) (#154)
by stfrn on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 10:52:32 AM EST

yeah, rusty's starting to become my idol too.

"Man, I'm going to bed. I can't even insult people properly tonight." - Imperfect
What would you recomend to someone who doesn't like SPAM?
[ Parent ]
Oh no (4.50 / 2) (#166)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:53:10 PM EST

We all know what happens to idols. We build them up, and then revel in their fall from grace. I'm just a regular guy, like you. Please don't idolize me. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
other sites with user-purchased ads (4.00 / 3) (#74)
by Delirium on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:27:49 AM EST

SomethingAwful.com is the first I ever saw that on. They used to be almost all user-purchased ads, though now some gaming companies are buying ads. If Lowtax wasn't such an ass I'd probably buy ads there before kuro5hin too, because the ads on SomethingAwful are just to pay for bandwidth fees, which kuro5hin already has covered (Lowtax actually loses money on the site, while k5 currently breaks even afaik)...

[ Parent ]
Hmm (3.33 / 3) (#78)
by WhiteBandit on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:34:15 AM EST

Well people keep bringing up sites with user-sponsered ads. I guess I was wrong... or I just don't get out (on the internet) as much as I thought...

Dave

[ Parent ]
Interesting idea (4.00 / 1) (#94)
by krogoth on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 02:39:21 AM EST

I would actually consider linking to something by or about me on k5 to get attention... (unfortunately I can't really buy ads right now, but I would like to help out k5 and get a few more readers).
--
"If you've never removed your pants and climbed into a tree to swear drunkenly at stuck-up rich kids, I highly recommend it."
:wq
[ Parent ]
just out of curiosity (4.20 / 5) (#35)
by Delirium on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:01:44 PM EST

I don't mean to sound like an ass, but where does the money go to? K5 really has no expenses - bandwidth, hardware, and content are all donated - but obviously rusty does a lot of work on the site and it's his "full-time job." So are we just paying rusty's salary, or are there multiple employees or what? I certainly don't begrudge buying some ads to support Herr rusty's salary, but I don't necessarily want to be supporting an entire support staff of hangers-on. =P

Me, hurstdog, Ino (4.25 / 4) (#37)
by rusty on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:06:21 PM EST

K5's income goes mostly to paying my salary, and partly to paying hurstdog for coding and Inoshiro for services (mail and DNS support). It's a very tiny crowd of hangers-on, and we make do with very little income.

But my cats are counting on you...

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Come on people! (4.50 / 4) (#43)
by martman on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:13:33 PM EST

Do it for rusty's cats! Click on those text ads like you've never clicked on anything before! Every click is a pellet of go-cat in their tiny mouths.

[ Parent ]
Actually (3.00 / 2) (#45)
by enterfornone on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:15:55 PM EST

You don't need to click on the ads, just keep reloading the front page.

--
efn 26/m/syd
Will sponsor new accounts for porn.
[ Parent ]
Actually... (4.66 / 3) (#48)
by rusty on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:23:40 PM EST

Reloading like mad doesn't really help much either. Taking a lesson from smart druig dealers, we get the money up front. So reloading just shortens the lifespan of everyone's campaign for no good reason. What actually helps is buying an ad. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
cats (3.66 / 3) (#50)
by martman on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:26:01 PM EST

Maybe you should buy an ad and advertise your cats. A web-cam attached to their collar, so they can earn a decent living for themselves. On the other hand, I can see so many ways in which this might end in disaster.

[ Parent ]
you're not supposed to add that last sentence... (4.00 / 3) (#53)
by Delirium on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:27:13 PM EST

...until it's too late.

[ Parent ]
Rusty only has the one cat. (4.50 / 2) (#119)
by Inoshiro on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 05:29:42 AM EST

I'm the other cat person here, and I have two little mouse hunters (144kib) who stalk the buts of fluff and the dingly "Marty Mouse" toy :)



--
[ イノシロ ]
[ Parent ]
Those who sacrifice necessary liberty for... (4.50 / 2) (#128)
by wiredog on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 08:37:01 AM EST

Oh, look at the cute KITTIES!

Peoples Front To Reunite Gondwanaland: "Stop the Laurasian Separatist Movement!"
[ Parent ]
hmm (4.00 / 1) (#83)
by Kalani on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:59:42 AM EST

Why don't you charge per click? You could at least provide the option of being billed per click instead of per impression (and you'd need to make the per-click cost higher of course).

Services like Overture work this way, and it's generally better all around (more info available upon request).

-----
"I [think] that ultimately physics will not require a mathematical statement; in the end the machinery will be revealed and the laws will turn out to be simple, like the checker board."
--Richard Feynman
[ Parent ]
shh... (2.33 / 3) (#40)
by suick on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:07:04 PM EST



order in to with the will I around my effort sentences an i of more be fuck annoying.
[ Parent ]
Open the books? (4.45 / 11) (#46)
by GaussZ88 on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:17:46 PM EST

Now since there seems to be a constant influx of money would it not be nice to see how much and where it is going?
What I mean is a kind of overview where joe standarduser can see how much money K5 made and how much rusty and the others got paid. (so we can donate in hard times to keep the cats alive :)

In my opinion this would promote even more openness and strengthen the sense of community here.

stupid idea (none / 0) (#215)
by trhurler on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 07:44:07 PM EST

I wouldn't want MY income reported to 20,000 teenaged pimplepoppers the world over, and I doubt rusty, inoshiro, or hurstdog does either.

--
'God dammit, your posts make me hard.' --LilDebbie

[ Parent ]
re: stupid idea (1.00 / 1) (#219)
by GaussZ88 on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 08:20:50 PM EST

But if those 20,000 teenaged pimplepoopers would be in a community with you? I would not want to report my income to 20,000 _random_ people as well, but this is not the case.

There is a reason why charity organisations open their books: trust and the sense of being a community. So I think one can not compare this with you reporting your income.

Just my two euro cent.

[ Parent ]
You are wrong (none / 0) (#242)
by trhurler on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 11:48:47 AM EST

First off, charities open their books because it is the only way to get people to trust them; there is no single other thing they can point at and say "see, we're doing it right!". The people who run this site already have trust from most of their users, and obtain it by doing a good job on a consistent basis; if the site runs well and gets cool new features from time to time, they're doing their jobs. They don't need to open their books, and their finances are nobody else's business.

Second, providing this information not only is comparable to reporting your income, in their case, it WOULD be reporting their income.

Finally, while there are multiple little communities on k5, the idea that the whole thing is one big happy family of users is just plain out stupid. It wouldn't justify what you're saying even if true, but that's completely irrelevant, as it is NOT the case, probably never really was, and certainly never will be again.

--
'God dammit, your posts make me hard.' --LilDebbie

[ Parent ]
truirler (none / 0) (#243)
by rusty on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 12:08:06 PM EST

I love you. :-)

Um, I pretty much agree. Anyone is free to take my word that no one's getting rich running K5 or not take it-- either way I don't really see how my income has anything to do with anything. Even if I was getting rich, why would it matter?

It may just be somewhat of a misconception of what this is all about. K5 isn't a charity. I'm not taking your money to do good works in the world. I'm taking your money to buy food and pay my rent. The idea is that as long as I can get along, K5 will stay running and be a good place to come and hang out. If I can't get along, well, that would be bad.

Also, if you're curious about how much ads are bringing in, you can now look at the all ads page and do a little simple math to get a very rough idea how much the currently active stock is worth at any one time.

I don't think we'll be opening the books any time soon though. Not to be secretive, I just don't think it's anyone's business, like you say.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Also... (none / 0) (#255)
by UncleMikey on Thu Mar 07, 2002 at 12:45:37 AM EST

...since K5, Inc. is a private corporation (assuming that Inc. is even for real, but I'm assuming so), they're really under no obligation, legal or moral, to open their books to anyone except the IRS or a cop with a warrant. If you give them money (and I have), give them money because you believe in them and in what they're doing, and want them to keep doing it, and don't worry so much about how much of that money they may be accumulating in the process. If it's worth it to you, it's worth it to you, and that's all that really matters.
--
[ Uncle Mikey | Radio Free Tomorrow ]
[ Parent ]
Why I think so (2.50 / 2) (#218)
by GaussZ88 on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 08:14:48 PM EST

Maybe I should elaborate on why I think it would be a good idea.

First of all the feeling of rusty and the others belonging to the community would prevail, we all could see that they are not getting rich from K5.

Also the identification with K5 will strengthen, we could all see how profitable we are, could throw parties on big ad-buyouts and donate a truck of cat food on not-so-good days.

It would carry the idea of openness even further and would generate the same trust we place in all organisations opening their books. (e.g. Greenpeace and most other charitable organisations)

I certainly would feel this way and thus think it is a good idea. What do you think?

[ Parent ]
Why.. (none / 0) (#252)
by dice on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 05:40:09 PM EST

Why wouldn't we want rusty or anyone else to get rich from k5? Just pay what you think it's worth.

[ Parent ]
Damn it , I want my ads (4.00 / 2) (#49)
by darthaya on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:23:51 PM EST

I wanna see some funny, creative, stress-relieving text ads!

But I am already a subscribed member, what can I do in order to see the ads?

user prefs (4.66 / 3) (#55)
by rusty on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:28:38 PM EST

Go to your user prefs and where it says "Show Ads" set it to "Yes".

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Hey, you should treat the text ads differently... (4.00 / 3) (#69)
by John Miles on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:15:47 AM EST

Most subscribers probably have the "Show Ads" option set to No, for obvious reasons. If I were you, I'd think about adding a separate "Show Text Ads" dropdown to the user page and set its default to "Yes," even for subscribers.

The reason is that I'll bet many subscribers, like myself, didn't want to see random commercial banners, but don't mind seeing text ads. Subscribers who don't read all the way through your introduction to the text ads may never realize they need to turn them on.

For so long as men do as they are told, there will be war.
[ Parent ]

Hmm (4.50 / 4) (#75)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:28:01 AM EST

Well, I don't want to change anyone's preferences myself (that's way too eBay for my liking). And it seems pointless to have another preference for the ads we have, when the original pref will no longer be referring to anything. And I'd feel just icky and wrong sending out an email to all the subscribers.

I don't know. Here:

SUBSCRIBERS! You have to turn ads on in your user prefs to see the nifty fun textads!

Did that work? :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Hrm. (4.50 / 2) (#110)
by delmoi on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 05:06:21 AM EST

There havn't been graphical ads on k5 for a while now, actualy.
--
"'argumentation' is not a word, idiot." -- thelizman
[ Parent ]
Credit cards (4.85 / 7) (#54)
by DJBongHit on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:28:14 PM EST

No offense to Inoshiro's sysadmin skills, but I trust that our credit card numbers aren't being stored in the database?

~DJBongHit

--
GNU GPL: Free as in herpes.

Nope (4.22 / 9) (#58)
by rusty on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:37:35 PM EST

In fact, none of your personal info is stored here. I don't want it. We take it and pass it through to the card gateway, and they give us back an order ID. That's all we store, so that after approval, we can run the "capture" on the order and finalize it.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
urrr (5.00 / 1) (#183)
by /dev/niall on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 03:17:55 PM EST

You might want to double check your merchant account agreement... you may have agreed to store that information in some form (at least on paper). Not that it's likely you would ever be called on it....
-- 报告人对动物
[ Parent ]
I don't think k5 has a merchant account (none / 0) (#234)
by Delirium on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 12:12:21 AM EST

Or at least not the usual sort (the ones with the CC companies themselves)...they get an external processor to handle their CC for them, so "Kuro5hin.org" probably won't show up on your bill. The external processor is probably the one who's going to keep your info on file in case you do something like challenge the charge.

[ Parent ]
Cardservice (5.00 / 1) (#235)
by rusty on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 12:19:20 AM EST

We deal with Cardservice Imnternational, but Kuro5hin.org will show up on your bill. Basically, your transaction details are stored on our CC gateway, which they host. If I need to look up a transaction, or do a return or whatever, I do it through that machine. It is a merchant account, there's just a layer between us and the banking system that's hosted by CSI.

So yeah, it is on file, but not on the K5 servers, is what I'm trying to say. I assumed everyone knew that every CC transaction is stored somewhere, probably forever. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Ah okay (none / 0) (#236)
by Delirium on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 12:21:50 AM EST

I had assumed you were doing something CCNow. But I guess not being a porn site you don't need to be able to say "don't worry, Kuro5hin.org won't show up on your bill!"

[ Parent ]
Privacy Policy (none / 0) (#238)
by Secret Coward on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 01:12:44 AM EST

So what kind of privacy policy does CSI have? Will they take the fact that I buy advertisements at K5, and sell it to marketing companies, lawyers, employers, land lords, etc.?

[ Parent ]
DJBonghit! (3.00 / 1) (#130)
by CokeBear on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 08:52:11 AM EST

When is smokedot going to be back up???

[ Parent ]
Well Done! (3.00 / 2) (#59)
by Merkin on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:40:47 PM EST

Nicely done Rusty!

I just ordered some, whole process went really smoothly.

I hope this works out really well for you.

Damian



Learn to Improvise

Thank you! (4.00 / 3) (#60)
by bleach on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:42:03 PM EST

While slashdot and other annoying sites go with bigger ads, it is nice to know some people are actually giving us what we want.

Your price might be a little low tho. But who knows. I'll defiently be purchasing a few :)

#define CODE "\270\105\000\000\303";
int (*foo)();main(){foo=CODE;printf("I like to %d\n",foo());}
Not really (3.50 / 2) (#80)
by leviramsey on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:49:15 AM EST

I don't think$3.00 CPM is that low. It's not the rate per ad, it's the total revenue. The sweet-spot might be higher. Maybe Rusty should experiment with the prices. After a stable level of sales are reached, he should try a month at say $5.00 CPM and see if greater than 60% of the previous ads are sold, and so on.

I'm planning to launch a tech news site that will sort of sit halfway between /. and k5 (I hope to fix the most major problems with /.'s moderation system and make the content creation process a little more open like k5's). I'm planning to roll my own text-ad system (well, it's more of a general ad system, images, javascript and flash will be legal, but very expensive...). Anyway, my base rate is $2.50 CPM, though I provide some premium options (like targeting based on topic).

To Rusty, the great benefit that I see in text ads is that, in lieu of a single banner at the top of the page, text ads can be placed more often in a page. So maybe an ad could be placed, with appropriate markings, every nth thread in the comments (say that n=10 to start).



[ Parent ]
Wonderful! (3.00 / 2) (#61)
by trog on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:46:37 PM EST

Just purchased an ad, and was approved in just a few minutes.

This is a great way to get complete strangers to notice things that are important to me.

Curses foiled again (4.00 / 4) (#64)
by Cro Magnon on Mon Mar 04, 2002 at 11:59:31 PM EST

I was browsing with lynx, hit K5, and saw my first text ad. Even worse, I actually read the durn thing (it was an ad for a vegan book). If other sites start using them, I might actually click on a few of them. Arrgh!
Information wants to be beer.
Vegan book (none / 0) (#237)
by vectro on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 12:50:21 AM EST

Are most books made from animal products? I didn't know that.

“The problem with that definition is just that it's bullshit.” -- localroger
[ Parent ]
KURO5HIN IS TEH SUKC (4.20 / 15) (#67)
by fluffy grue on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:05:08 AM EST

i canot beleiv that yr siet wuld sel out liek tihs rutsy! puting ADVERTIZING on ou'r INTARNET CONECTINS! im leeving 4ever! kiroshin is teh sukc now
--
"Is not a quine" is not a quine.
I have a master's degree in science!

[ Hug Your Trikuare ]

a bit late (3.25 / 4) (#73)
by Delirium on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:25:41 AM EST

you were supposed to do that when he put up the OSDN ads...then you could've put in some stuff about SELLING OUT TO SLASHDOT too... =P

[ Parent ]
uh-oh... (4.00 / 2) (#71)
by martman on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:21:16 AM EST

I just got an error on the front page saying that there were problems with the mod_perl server, possibly due to excessive load. Are there a lot of people like me who are just sitting there refreshing the front page to see the next ad? If so - stop it! (so that i can keep doing it)

Nope (4.00 / 2) (#72)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:24:41 AM EST

I just had a quick code update to do. Sorry about that.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Avoidance (3.33 / 3) (#76)
by PresJPolk on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:28:28 AM EST

Hm, now instead of making large, mature lists ad servers, we're going to have to start building up large, mature lists of regexps that find and squelch ads.

or (4.25 / 4) (#112)
by gilmae on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 05:09:32 AM EST

you could subscribe. Whichever.

[ Parent ]
Or! (4.50 / 4) (#116)
by Inoshiro on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 05:22:51 AM EST

5 USD a month, or about 1.20 USD a week, or 17 cents US a day will keep you from seeing any text ads ever without regexps and allow the site to continue to exist.



--
[ イノシロ ]
[ Parent ]
At the cost of having to deal with Paypal (5.00 / 1) (#194)
by PresJPolk on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 04:50:22 PM EST

At the cost of having to deal with Paypal, which may at any time change its terms of service to erode privacy, sell my information, or whatever.

[ Parent ]
Rotation (3.00 / 1) (#81)
by enterfornone on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:56:08 AM EST

Something I was wondering. Say person A has 4000 ads and person B has 8000, will they rotate one by one until person A runs out, or will they rotate on a 1:2 ratio?

--
efn 26/m/syd
Will sponsor new accounts for porn.
one-by-one (3.00 / 1) (#88)
by hurstdog on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 01:32:36 AM EST

until A runs out. right now its a simple round robin, last seen, first shown. over and over.



[ Parent ]
Paid Membership benefits (4.62 / 8) (#82)
by bowline on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:58:59 AM EST

Yo, Rusty. Since you asked, here a few ideas for membership benefits:

-A kuro5hin.org e-mail address, <username>@kuro5hin.org .
-A spell-check feature.
-A user "hotlist" so we can be alerted when our favorite folks write a new diary or article. Maybe it can be set so that their comments will be marked on all pages too.
-Discounts in the store and for ads.

(Yes, I'm sure that some of these have been mentioned before, but I'm not sorry about it. Rusty speaks, I obey.)

Thanks (3.00 / 1) (#138)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 09:41:46 AM EST

I was surprised almost no one addressed that question. Thanks for the ideas. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Hotlist of users, or a 'friends' list... (4.00 / 2) (#143)
by killthiskid on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 10:01:02 AM EST

I think a 'friends/favories' list would be a great feature.

For example, I turned my GF on to K5 when opendiary when to heck. She loves K5, but she misses having a list of favorites and being able to easily check to see if any of them have written anything new since the last time she was on. I'd like to see this feature to, as there are a few people's diaries I read on a regular basis.

I'd pay money for that...



[ Parent ]
List of all advertisers... (4.66 / 6) (#84)
by leviramsey on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 01:01:40 AM EST

In a similar vein to showing the buyer of a particular ad, would it be possible to set up a page that listed who currently had ads in the system? This would provide a nice place especially to see which businesses should receive business from k5ers.



Rate the ads ? (4.75 / 4) (#87)
by panck on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 01:22:49 AM EST

Hey rusty,
how about the ability to rate the ads as if they were actual posts?

Or maybe just show the clickthrough count next to the ad...
like
44/355
"liked it/ saw it"

Interesting Idea... (3.00 / 2) (#89)
by leviramsey on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 01:39:34 AM EST

Perhaps the data could be used as follows: every day, the system allocates extra impressions to those ads that have high clickthru rates and (even more so) high user-appeal, over the previous 24 hours. Maybe a formula like: extra_impressions=sqrt(net_mods+(1/10)*clickthrus) could work By basing it on the sqrt of approval, fraud could be massively discouraged. This would also tend to mean that those advertisers with disliked ads would not get seen as much.



[ Parent ]
Click Through (4.00 / 1) (#93)
by MugginsM on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 02:16:27 AM EST

> Perhaps the data could be used as follows: every day, the system allocates extra impressions to those ads that have high clickthru rates and (even more so) high user-appeal, over the previous 24 hours.


I'm not sure clickthrough rates necessarily relate to
user appeal. As someone who's bought an ad only intended for one viewer (hi Fishie!) I'd be rather
annoyed if it wasn't displayed as often merely
because it didn't have a high click rate. (actually it's doing ok :) )

- MugginsM

[ Parent ]
Clickthru is next-to meaningless... (4.00 / 1) (#95)
by leviramsey on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 03:13:48 AM EST

...but still possibly useful as a metric. That's why in my proposed formula, relatively large numbers of clickthrus are required to get a substantial number (say, 100) of extra impressions.

In addition, ads do not really shut each other out. I saw elsewhere in this story that it's a simple queue. So all extra impressions do is increase the number of times an ad goes through the pike.

I did click on your ad, out of curiosity, btw....



[ Parent ]
Not a good idea economicaly... (4.66 / 3) (#109)
by delmoi on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 04:56:49 AM EST

What on earth would be the point of giving people who are getting the most value on the ads the lowest price?
--
"'argumentation' is not a word, idiot." -- thelizman
[ Parent ]
Read this -response to your story (none / 0) (#270)
by Sheepdot on Mon Mar 11, 2002 at 03:06:25 AM EST

While I think this is most likely a topic that would be fit better for a diary, I do have some comments/replies:

1. Bar fight scene: Obi-wan spins around and whips out his light sabre. From the original Star Wars scene: Obi wan whips out the sabre in a bar and chops off some alien's arm.

Yes, we've seen this before. Only this time Obi-Wan is actually chasing a bounty hunter named Zam Wesell. It's different, though that exact sequence is similar.

2. Anakin jumps out of the air-car: camera follows him falling, while air-cars zoom around us. From The 5th Element: (couple of scenes) Milla Jovovich as Leelu jumps off the building and air-cars zoom around. Also Bruce Weiner makes his cab dive straight down and more zoomage occurs.

Here again, they are chasing the bounty hunter, which at the time has evaded them. Anakin sees an opportunity to find her and takes advantage of it. This is a chase sequence, not just some chick jumping out of a building.

3. Anakin and Amidala on retracting plank: (what comes next, the old kiss for luck?) From the original Star Wars: Luke and Leia in the Death Star running from storm troopers find themselves on a retracted bridge over an apparently bottomless pit. Luke shoots a line across and they swing to safety (after the kiss).

It's actually a conveyor belt on Geonosis, and that whole sequence is far different from the one in the original Star Wars.

4. Amidala on top of some kind of metal structure: Her hands are shackled and she swings her chain around to fight off some monster, and we get a sexy shot of her butt. From Return of the Jedi: Leia is in chains and slave of Jaba, the battle starts, she uses her chains to kill Jaba, wearing sexy metal clothes.

Umm. I can't go any furthur without causing some major spoilage, but let's just say that if you haven't noticed the similarities between Anakin and Luke, and Amidala and Leia by now, you're in for a treat when you see the movie. And if you're the kind of guy that acts like he's upset he got to see Natlie Portman in a compromising position, you're the guy that Lucas is least worried about failing to go see the movie.

Ok so 4 scenes, but still...that's just in the trailer. Someone should have really said to Lucas, "George, this scene is just like in Empire."

Are you afraid that Lucas will fail to deliver?

I know there's tons of people out there, shouting about how Episode II is gonna suck/be like Star Wars/Empire/Jedi/Episode I, but I felt like I had to point out the obvious. Leaving my opinions of Episode I (which I think had its own stack of lifted scenes) aside I have to feel kind of offended that we are being sold recycled material. I'm not looking a gift horse in the mouth either, since I would be paying if I go to see Episode II.

God you jump to conclusions fast for a guy that is most likely to go see the movie on opening night despite his objections to the trailer.

Anyway, just spitting out my opinion. Does anybody else feel this way?

I honestly don't know. Not everyone was dead set on seeing the trailer, and many here may have no idea what you are talking about. I'd advise you to look at the various scriptments (email me) if you are seriously considering not going to see the movie.

(And to leave you with something else to chew on, I have another peeve: The last words of the trailer are Yoda saying "Begun, this clone war, has." Yoda would never say that, jeebus. He would have said "Begun has this clone war." Lucas, you created the character, why are you forsaking Yoda's sweet memory?)

That's odd, I didn't know Yoda wasn't allowed to end sentences on verbs. I thought he did it all the time.

IMHO, Episode II will be better than the first one. As far as how much better, I don't know. I thought Empire Strikes Back was crappy compared to A New Hope, so to see Lucas do better on the second prequel than he did on the first is a step in the right direction if you ask me.

And for your information, there's going to be more parallels between scenes in Ep2 and Ep1 than Ep2 and any of the old trilogy.


[ Parent ]
Contrast (4.75 / 4) (#90)
by kb5 on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 01:50:37 AM EST

Text Ads are nice, but the ad is hardly highlighted; i missed it the first time, it is barely noticeable. A different color scheme/set of font styles could definitely enhance the ads. I'm sure it can be done without spoiling the decor.

Suggestions? (4.00 / 2) (#91)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 02:12:15 AM EST

We're all about input here. What we have now is the best I could come up with. If you have an idea, whip it up and tell me what to change.

Not saying I'll do it, but I'll definitely consider it. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

neon purple and some BLINK tags (3.33 / 3) (#98)
by Delirium on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 03:31:05 AM EST



[ Parent ]
oh wait, this isn't slashdot (4.33 / 3) (#99)
by Delirium on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 03:31:23 AM EST

*rimshot*

[ Parent ]
Re: (3.50 / 2) (#102)
by kb5 on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 03:38:38 AM EST

Why not try just Reverse video ? Something like this. Okay that was lame, i'm sure you and others can improve on it. It's possible lots of people may hate this though :)

[ Parent ]
heh... (3.00 / 1) (#103)
by enterfornone on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 03:49:48 AM EST

The geocities 404 is not a good example

--
efn 26/m/syd
Will sponsor new accounts for porn.
[ Parent ]
It's not a 404.. (3.00 / 1) (#114)
by Inoshiro on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 05:20:38 AM EST

If you use a nice browser or proxy which fakes the referrer :)



--
[ イノシロ ]
[ Parent ]
Yes and no (3.00 / 1) (#139)
by Karmakaze on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 09:44:08 AM EST

It does demonstrate the white text on blue, which I think was what the poster was trying to suggest. (I don't know for sure, since I got the 404, too).
--
Karmakaze
[ Parent ]
To avoid 404 (none / 0) (#181)
by QuickFox on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 03:01:37 PM EST

The trick to avoid 404 is to put the image in an HTML page. It also works if you link from an HTML page on their server to the image. I think this is because they want to show their ads, which are only shown on HTML pages.

Give a man a fish and he eats for one day. Teach him how to fish, and though he'll eat for a lifetime, he'll call you a miser for not giving him your fish.


Terrorists can't threaten a country's freedom and democracy. Only lawmakers and voters can do that.

[ Parent ]
Diffrent colors (2.00 / 2) (#108)
by delmoi on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 04:54:40 AM EST

Well, I think the add needs to be more promonent. As someone else mentioned, I didn't even notice the change. Then again, I don't see the ads on Mefi anymore either. Perhaps the same color as the promicro systems icon?

Well, k5 needs a redesign anyway.
--
"'argumentation' is not a word, idiot." -- thelizman
[ Parent ]
Ad colour (none / 0) (#111)
by infraoctarine on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 05:07:17 AM EST

I think a slightly different backgound colour could at the same time differentiate the ad from K5 stuff, and highligt it somewhat. Only, it cannot be too bright as thay would spoil the nice K5 design and probably annoy people.

I think a yellowish colour is perfect for ads, something like this.

[ Parent ]

WHERE (colour) LIKE (editiorial) (4.00 / 3) (#113)
by axxeman on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 05:10:08 AM EST

Choosing a whole new colour, even if just a bit different, spoils the whole "this is how our site looks" thing.

My suggestion is to have the outline of the ad box in red, the same way editorial comments are marked.

Fun and thought-provoking,
yet pretentious and masturbatory.
[ Parent ]

Tested (4.00 / 1) (#180)
by QuickFox on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 02:55:36 PM EST

While I was testing an idea of my own I also tested your red border.

Give a man a fish and he eats for one day. Teach him how to fish, and though he'll eat for a lifetime, he'll call you a miser for not giving him your fish.


Terrorists can't threaten a country's freedom and democracy. Only lawmakers and voters can do that.

[ Parent ]
Orange! (none / 0) (#115)
by Sunir on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 05:22:24 AM EST

I like orange! It's the complementary colour to blue. (*) It's soothing. It's orange! I've been up all night, so I'm just going to say orange!

Orange!

(*) Actually, the orange (#FF9933) is not quite as saturated as the complement of k5 blue. I like it because it says, "Hey, there's an ad here!" but it doesn't demand that the reader look at it. Then the reader can ignore it or, if they're like me, reload the page over and over again to see more ads, thus wasting your bandwidth and sending you to debtors prison.

Note that I also bolded "Advertisement" and centred it, but you may not choose to do so.

"Look! You're free! Go, and be free!" and everyone hated it for that. --r
[ Parent ]

Wait wait, even better! (5.00 / 3) (#120)
by gnovos on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 06:01:59 AM EST

Even better than Orange, why not have a little image there instead. Something that would just FORCE people to use it. I'm thinking flashing red/yellow... Oh, and put a monkey in it. YES! Click the monkey and win, brilliant. Oh wait, oh wait, and make it big too. like make it as big as the entire screen, like banner of some kind, and put it on the top of the page. Yes, it's brilliant!

oops, I get carried away sometimes...

A Haiku: "fuck you fuck you fuck/you fuck you fuck you fuck you/fuck you fuck you snow" - JChen
[ Parent ]

No, bad idea (5.00 / 1) (#123)
by Hopfrog on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 07:35:59 AM EST

You don't want to make "Advertisment" bold and colored. The user will first glance at the bit of color, then read "Advertisment", then look away.

With the current method, one is used to seeing the blue color as part of the title, so one just briefly looks at it, then reads the text.

It makes your adverts much more effective when they are not prominently branded as being adverts.

Hop.

[ Parent ]

How about that? (none / 0) (#133)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 09:32:24 AM EST

See current state of ads. Not quite so bright, and hopefully attracting attention to the right spot. :-) I was looking for a way to work orange in there, because it does look nice with the blue. Now we kind of resemble a Dutch speed skater though...

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
I preferred it the way it was. (4.00 / 1) (#148)
by ambrosen on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 10:08:04 AM EST

I kind of see the adverts as being a part of the content of K5, and having them a different colour makes them less like that. I think it even triggers my ignore adverts function. So while it may look nice to have the adverts in a different colour, in a kind of "look at the new feature" way, it actually makes them less a part of the site, and thus (as all parts of K5 are for mindless clickthrough in search of our hit of discussion to satisfy the craving) makes them much less clickthroughable.

--
Procrastination does not make you cool. Being cool makes you procrastinate. DesiredUsername.
[ Parent ]
Discretely highlighted (none / 0) (#179)
by QuickFox on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 02:45:25 PM EST

How about this color combination?

I think yours looks a little better, but unfortunately it's too discrete.

While I was at it I also tested axxeman's proposal in this image.

I think you can call attention to the ad nicely, without annoying the reader at all, by using different colors: Sometimes people would get a page with your light grey ad, sometimes one with my blue ad, sometimes one with axxeman's red border, or whatever combinations are chosen. Maybe choose one of the alternatives at random every time a page is served, or maybe let each buyer choose one of the alternatives.

By the way, I'm impressed. You've got the community here discussing your new ad and buying and testing. If this goes on you'll be the envy of the entire Internet.

Give a man a fish and he eats for one day. Teach him how to fish, and though he'll eat for a lifetime, he'll call you a miser for not giving him your fish.



[ Parent ]
Don't spoil the decor (none / 0) (#104)
by adewhite on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 04:01:18 AM EST

I'm not really into making the text ads highlighted - IMO it's fine the way it is. However, if it's really necessary, I'd rather that the "highlighting" doesn't draw focus too much from the other stuff on the page.

[ Parent ]
Let the advertiser pick (4.00 / 2) (#170)
by Secret Coward on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 01:05:17 PM EST

I think the advertiser should pick it. Something like this:

Pick a background color:

  • K5 default color
  • Rose
  • Neon green
  • Pink
  • Yellow
  • Custom: {text box}

Pick a highlight color:

  • K5 default color
  • Brown
  • Green
  • Custom: {text box}


[ Parent ]
I just saw a microsoft ad (5.00 / 3) (#92)
by Hopfrog on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 02:15:06 AM EST

Wow, thats good going in a few hours.

Hop.

I saw it too.. (1.50 / 2) (#100)
by locutox on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 03:35:09 AM EST

Heh!

[ Parent ]
Not real? (2.50 / 2) (#125)
by WWWWolf on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 07:51:06 AM EST

I doubt it came from Microsoft, especially when the prices are as low as they are...

Great. Make Trolls Pay For Their Trolling and Let Microsof Get The Profit. =)

-- Weyfour WWWWolf, a lupine technomancer from the cold north...


[ Parent ]
Rusty... (1.00 / 1) (#204)
by diablod3 on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 06:25:30 PM EST

.... I just saw that ms ad. If I find out where you live... well, just say my friends will have chicken flavored chilli for awhile.

[ Parent ]
I wish... (4.75 / 4) (#106)
by boxed on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 04:33:29 AM EST

I just wish I could make the text ads appear to the right and since I have disabled everything in the left column, I'd like to not have a huge empty column to the left!

Subscribe. [nt] (none / 0) (#145)
by mcherm on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 10:02:36 AM EST



-- Michael Chermside
[ Parent ]
that won't matter, read what I wrote again [nt] (none / 0) (#155)
by boxed on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 11:03:23 AM EST



[ Parent ]
Box arrangement (5.00 / 1) (#164)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:51:36 PM EST

Yeah, box arrangement is still sub-optimal. I could put an optional adbox on the right side, but then I'd have to give everyone the option to turn off the ads. I don't think I can require that you have either box A or box B turned on.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Solution? (4.00 / 1) (#175)
by infraoctarine on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 01:54:19 PM EST

You could have a drop-down where non-subscribers can choose to position ads: left|right, and subscribers: left|right|off.

Maybe still a bit awkward though...

[ Parent ]

Apologies (none / 0) (#266)
by mcherm on Fri Mar 08, 2002 at 11:46:36 AM EST

Sorry... you're right: I didn't read your comment carefully enough. I too prefer to see the ads -- I'm a subscriber who keeps them turned on.

Actually, I'd be curious to know just how many of the subscribers keep ads turned on.

-- Michael Chermside
[ Parent ]

Ad browsing. (4.33 / 3) (#107)
by delmoi on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 04:50:31 AM EST

You should setup a system for people to look through the advertizements, such as this page on mefi. It would also be nice to be able to link to them, and possibly even comment (perhaps at the advertizers discression) like on fark.
--
"'argumentation' is not a word, idiot." -- thelizman
Comments on ads (4.80 / 5) (#117)
by autopr0n on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 05:24:44 AM EST

Any plans to allow commenting on advertisements (like on fark.com)?

Also, would you allow a site like autopr0n to advertize?


[autopr0n] got pr0n?
autopr0n.com is a categorically searchable database of porn links, updated every day (or so). no popups!
pr0n (5.00 / 1) (#136)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 09:36:32 AM EST

My personal policy on porn sites advertising is they have to meet two criteria:
  • Be tasteful in the landing page.
  • Make it clear in the ad that there's adult material on the other end.
The second is slightly more important than the first. Basically, as my Dad put it, he doesn't want to click on something at work and discover it's pr0n after the corporate firewall has already logged it. So as long as it's clear (i.e. include the word "adult" or something) and the page it links to doesn't blow out my eyeballs, you'd be ok.

Oh, autopr0n.com does pass the "tasteful" test, IMO. I think that wasm't totally clear from my rambling above. Need coffee.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Cool (none / 0) (#142)
by autopr0n on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 09:59:33 AM EST

I will buy a bunch of ads when... when I get my credit card payed off :P


[autopr0n] got pr0n?
autopr0n.com is a categorically searchable database of porn links, updated every day (or so). no popups!
[ Parent ]
Re: Cool (none / 0) (#256)
by leviramsey on Thu Mar 07, 2002 at 12:51:52 AM EST

I thought pr0n sites practically minted money...

[ Parent ]
You know... (4.33 / 3) (#121)
by jonr on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 06:24:40 AM EST

Rusty, you have done it. I actually read the ad, and I found it much more interesting than dancing monkeys and jumping chicken type banners wich I have trained my self to ignore completly. It blends in with the rest of the site. And I actually clicked on some which I was curous about. Go Rusty! J.

Exactly my feelings (5.00 / 2) (#226)
by webmaestro on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 10:12:03 PM EST

I fell the exact same way. It's weird, I find myself actually reading the ads. It might just be a temporary thing; I might become desensitized to them, but for now they actually work. I've been wanting to advertise something, but can't figure out what. I'll ask my friends what they think. Maybe the ads will become part of the "Kuro5hin Experience," if there is such a thing, and lend character to the site.

Tyler
--
Check out Worldofun.com. It's a world of fun.
[ Parent ]
Great. (none / 0) (#124)
by WWWWolf on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 07:48:50 AM EST

...but I doubt this amazing credit card billing code will be able to magically make me able to pay in case I'd ever have anything to advertise. =(

Can I just fax 20€?

-- Weyfour WWWWolf, a lupine technomancer from the cold north...


Proxy Sponsoring (none / 0) (#259)
by ashar on Thu Mar 07, 2002 at 03:30:22 AM EST

If you want an ad, you could try to find a friendly credit-card-owning K5er and ask him/her/it to submit the ad for you (with you paying by any convenient way). This proxy would probably need to be somewhere you can transfer money to without excessive fees (like in Finland).

In fact, this might be nice to make official. After writing your ad, you could have an option to get a unique URL for paying it. Then, you would just give this URL to your proxy, who could go pay for the ad. Would this be feasible/sensible/already implemented in some way?


[ Parent ]
Or... (none / 0) (#260)
by WWWWolf on Thu Mar 07, 2002 at 04:38:38 AM EST

...or ask my mommy to pay: Log in to K5 as myself on her computer, enter ad details, let her enter the credit card details (or whatever), and there we go.

It's still a pain in the neck =( I'd rather pay a separate bill via ATM or web bank. Or, as I suggested already, fax them a 20€ bill. =)

-- Weyfour WWWWolf, a lupine technomancer from the cold north...


[ Parent ]
Suggestion (5.00 / 1) (#126)
by br284 on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 08:02:48 AM EST

I bought an ad, and only have a tiny suggestion to make. Since the length of the strings submitted are limited, can you inforce this limitation by inserting some HTML code into your input and textarea fields that will not accept more characters than allowed? I'm pretty sure there are such attributes, though they elude me at the moment. This would help as I have no idea of how many characters I am typing as I go along.

Otherwise, a beautiful execution of ad serving. You may be on to something big.

-Chris

Issue (none / 0) (#132)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 09:25:15 AM EST

The problem was that you can only limit the length of a text field, not a textarea (you'll note we do limit the length of the title field). To limit the body field, w'd have to make it a text input, but we liked that it was bigger than the others, and kind of naturally communicated it's role in the whole thing. I agree, though, that it would be better if it was limited to a certain size.

Anyone still reading have a feeling about this? Which is more usable, a limited size, or a "body" looking field shape?

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

How about (none / 0) (#144)
by hulver on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 10:01:50 AM EST

Some sort of evil javascript (cringe) to show the number of chars typed in the box. I've seen something like it, but I can't remember where.

Of course, thats a whole new bag of worms.

--
HuSi!
[ Parent ]

here's your example.... (none / 0) (#171)
by pridkett on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 01:05:29 PM EST

You're thinking of something like the SkyTel Send A Message page.
--
Read this story.
[ Parent ]
Doesn't work in Opera [nt] (none / 0) (#201)
by ScrO on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 05:44:43 PM EST

ScrO!

[ Parent ]
The javascript for it, for those too lazy to look (none / 0) (#208)
by martman on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 06:40:37 PM EST

<script language="javascript">
<!--
function textCounter(field, maxlimit) {
   if (field.value.length > maxlimit) // if too long...trim it!
      field.value = field.value.substring(0, maxlimit);
}
-->
</script>

<form name="GenericForm" action="#" method="Get">
<textarea name="GenericTextArea" ROWS="10" COLS="26" onKeyDown="textCounter(document.GenericForm.GenericTextArea,60);" onKeyUp="textCounter(document.GenericForm.GenericTextArea,60);">

[ Parent ]
Why are you (1.00 / 1) (#248)
by brunes69 on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 02:23:02 PM EST

... checking both KeyDown and KeyUp? You should be calling it onkeypress for one thing, which is fired after the text is input. The onKeyDown and onKeyUp fire before the text enters the box, so there will be a point when the textarea string will be maxlength + 1 chars.



---There is no Spoon---
[ Parent ]
The other problem (none / 0) (#222)
by belg4mit on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 08:54:32 PM EST

If as later suggested support for HTML entities or formatting is added, this will screw with count, unless these really are counting towards you char limit (I can see formatting, but entities are only one displayable char even if they do take multiple bytes to send.)

[ Parent ]
These are ads done right. (none / 0) (#131)
by Mr. Piccolo on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 09:07:32 AM EST

Small, unobtrusive, even amusing at times. Now, if only I had something to advertise...

The BBC would like to apologise for the following comment.


Ok, why did the border just turn RED? (none / 0) (#134)
by Ranieri on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 09:33:26 AM EST

Ok, it's more visible but it looks like the ad was cut out of another side and glued to the front page in a hurry.
--
Taste cold steel, feeble cannon restraint rope!
it's yellow now, but it still looks nasty [nt] (none / 0) (#135)
by gibichung on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 09:35:07 AM EST



-----
"No man is above the law and no man is below it; nor do we ask any man's permission when we require him to obey it." -- Theodore Roosevelt
[ Parent ]
Trying stuff out (none / 0) (#140)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 09:49:07 AM EST

Several comments below suggested making it slightly more visible. The first attempt was not so good. How's it look now?

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Width (none / 0) (#141)
by autopr0n on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 09:57:01 AM EST

the width of the ad box should be the same size the heading box. I know it's hard since you're using evil tables. Maybe you should get rid of the border entirely if you can't get it to fit right.


[autopr0n] got pr0n?
autopr0n.com is a categorically searchable database of porn links, updated every day (or so). no popups!
[ Parent ]
Was that why (none / 0) (#146)
by wiredog on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 10:04:49 AM EST

The link colors (temporarily, thank God) went purple all of a sudden a few minutes ago?

Peoples Front To Reunite Gondwanaland: "Stop the Laurasian Separatist Movement!"
[ Parent ]
Did they? (none / 0) (#150)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 10:17:17 AM EST

I didn't do anything to the link colors. It may have been a side-effect of something else. Are they ok now?

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
They're OK now (none / 0) (#151)
by wiredog on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 10:27:35 AM EST

But it was a really ugly, almost neon, purple. I went away for a few minutes and everything was back to normal, or what passes for that around here. I'd never seen that sort of thing before.

Peoples Front To Reunite Gondwanaland: "Stop the Laurasian Separatist Movement!"
[ Parent ]
Wacky (none / 0) (#161)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:47:29 PM EST

No idea. *shrug*

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
If this doesn't work out... (5.00 / 1) (#147)
by wiredog on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 10:06:26 AM EST

Does Maine still have a fishing fleet? You could always go out after cod or scrod or whatever it is they fish for up there. Think how much your kitty will love you if you come home smelling of fish every night!

Peoples Front To Reunite Gondwanaland: "Stop the Laurasian Separatist Movement!"
Lobstah (5.00 / 2) (#149)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 10:16:39 AM EST

The lobster harvest was a record one this year. In fact, it was held up as a shining example of a successful aquatic stewardship program. They've been harvesting lobster in this bay for centuris, and the population higher now than it ever has been. Most people attribute this to strict enforcement of size regulations, and the really, really steep fines for "scrubbing", or scraping the eggs off fertilized female lobsters.

Did you know it's legal to shoot someone in Maine if you catch them stealing from your lobster traps?

Otherwise, the fishing industry as a whole is in deep, deep trouble. Stocks are declining, and it's getting harder to farm fish since the fish farms are now being sued under EPA clean water regulations. Expect the price of fish to keep rising.

Nevertheless, the life of the sea is not the life for me, I think. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

I'm looking for work (5.00 / 1) (#152)
by wiredog on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 10:30:06 AM EST

My company, a DoD contractor, lost the funding for a project as a result of Sept 11. Suddenly, too. If I don't find work within about 6 weeks, it's back to landscaping or roofing. Meanwhile, I've lots of time to surf the web, but no money.

Peoples Front To Reunite Gondwanaland: "Stop the Laurasian Separatist Movement!"
[ Parent ]
Avertise your resume (none / 0) (#162)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:48:59 PM EST

Oh wait. No money, huh? Well, if you can scrounge up $12, it might be worth a try.

At the very least, it would help keep one of us from being unemployed. ;-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Thought about it but (none / 0) (#165)
by wiredog on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:52:11 PM EST

the CC is in a desk drawer at home. That way I'm not tempted to use it. Besides, my resume wouldn't fit in 60 characters.

Peoples Front To Reunite Gondwanaland: "Stop the Laurasian Separatist Movement!"
[ Parent ]
Heh (none / 0) (#167)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:54:21 PM EST

I was thinking a link to it. I hope your resume won't fit in 60 characters! :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Let's see... (none / 0) (#169)
by wiredog on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 01:03:06 PM EST

"Hungry coder with 7 yrs c++ and secret clearance needs job."

Would a mailto link (the tag part) be counted as part of the 60 characters?

Peoples Front To Reunite Gondwanaland: "Stop the Laurasian Separatist Movement!"
[ Parent ]

mailto: (none / 0) (#174)
by hurstdog on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 01:53:14 PM EST

Is part of the url, so you don't need to worry about it taking up space.



[ Parent ]
Or (none / 0) (#176)
by wiredog on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 02:05:44 PM EST

Put the resume in a diary, and have the ad link to the diary.

Which is all well and good, except that I won't have the spare change to buy an ad until I get a new job. At which time I will no longer need to put the resume up.

Peoples Front To Reunite Gondwanaland: "Stop the Laurasian Separatist Movement!"
[ Parent ]

put it up somewhere (none / 0) (#198)
by Kellnerin on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 05:27:51 PM EST

... and I'll buy the ad for you. If you think it's a good idea. I'm serious, too. This way I'll have an excuse to buy the ad and help rusty, and you at the same time. Email me if you really want to do it ...

--got to be a way to make it sweeter, little more like lemon meringue--
[ Parent ]
Sponsor-the-unemployed (5.00 / 1) (#199)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 05:31:57 PM EST

Maybe we should have a "sponsor the unemployed" program, where people with twelve bucks can buy a resume ad for someone without twelve bucks (due to being unemployed, of course). Who's in? :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
the sponsors (none / 0) (#200)
by bowline on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 05:41:52 PM EST

When the guy gets a job, will the 'sponsor' get a cut of the salary? :.]

There is no k5 mafia!

[ Parent ]
Sounds good to me (none / 0) (#239)
by rantweasel on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 02:21:57 AM EST

I'd do it.

mathias

[ Parent ]
I can afford USD 12.. (none / 0) (#246)
by dblslash on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 01:56:44 PM EST

for someone looking for work.

[ Parent ]
I'm hoping other people can, too (none / 0) (#249)
by dblslash on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 02:45:38 PM EST

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/3/6/142646/3940

Nothing like a little initiative. I hope people actually use this. I bought two ads. One aimed at the unemployed, hoping they'll post their resumes, and another aimed at asking people to donate $12.

Not bad for a first diary entry. :)

[ Parent ]

I'm in. (none / 0) (#253)
by UncleMikey on Thu Mar 07, 2002 at 12:35:48 AM EST

At least, within reason, I'm in -- I don't have an infinite pool of disposable cash, but as someone whose been out of work recently and therefore knows firsthand how much it sucks; but is not currently out of work and therefore has the cash, I'm in.
--
[ Uncle Mikey | Radio Free Tomorrow ]
[ Parent ]
Heh ... (none / 0) (#192)
by Bwah on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 04:35:06 PM EST

Two words for ya man: Lockheed Martin. They are hiring like crazy over here (Fort Worth) due to JSF (and JSF pulling people off of other programs, etc.) Granted Fort Worth is not the greatest place to live ....

--
To redesign an infinite ensemble of universes: what terrible responsibility, what arrogance ... It sounds just like the type of thing your average Homo sap would do for a dare. -- Stephen Baxter
[ Parent ]

Talked to them (none / 0) (#206)
by wiredog on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 06:27:25 PM EST

Yesterday...

Peoples Front To Reunite Gondwanaland: "Stop the Laurasian Separatist Movement!"
[ Parent ]
What? (none / 0) (#191)
by medham on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 04:33:33 PM EST

My company, a DoD contractor, lost the funding for a project as a result of Sept 11.

Must be the only case of that happening...

You should post some secrets here. No one can find out who you are.

The real 'medham' has userid 6831.
[ Parent ]

Actually... (none / 0) (#207)
by wiredog on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 06:30:16 PM EST

Several programs got cut. If it's not perceived as being of immediate usefulness it's subject to having the funding repurposed. Unless it provides lots of jobs in Congressional districts.

Afraid I don't have any secrets to share. Some from the 70's, but I can't share them. I object to doing things that might get friends killed unnecessarily.

Peoples Front To Reunite Gondwanaland: "Stop the Laurasian Separatist Movement!"
[ Parent ]

Come on now (none / 0) (#223)
by medham on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 09:02:27 PM EST

You don't know anything that could get anyone killed. Drop the cloak-and-dagger stuff, and tell us some damn secrets.

The real 'medham' has userid 6831.
[ Parent ]

Seriously (none / 0) (#224)
by wiredog on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 09:44:03 PM EST

I knew people that, when they left government employ in the 70's, had to change their names. People were looking for them...

Peoples Front To Reunite Gondwanaland: "Stop the Laurasian Separatist Movement!"
[ Parent ]
Search! (4.50 / 2) (#153)
by Ranieri on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 10:33:02 AM EST

What about adding ads to the "search" feature? I mean the ability to search for a specific word in an ad, not actual advertisements on the search page. It would make it a lot easier to track down that ad about "donuts" that i just saw :)

I'm not exactly sure whether it would be hard to implement but if, as i suspect, everything happens though magic SQL queries i presume it wouldn't be too difficult. It would promote the idea that TextAds are an integral part of the content of the site, that they are submitted by users for users just like stories, diaries and comments.
--
Taste cold steel, feeble cannon restraint rope!

Cool (5.00 / 1) (#160)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:47:04 PM EST

That's a cool idea. I'll get hurstdog on it. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
redirect (none / 0) (#156)
by boxed on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 11:04:45 AM EST

Why are the ad links redirects? Direct links will lower the load on k5 and it's the same thing when it comes down to it.

Probably... (none / 0) (#158)
by SDrifter on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 11:19:41 AM EST

So they can know how many times an ad is clicked, in case that ever comes in handy.
--
It burns!!!
It's loaded with wasabi!
[ Parent ]
Yup (5.00 / 1) (#159)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 12:46:21 PM EST

Specifically, it's so that advertisers can look at what their clickthrough rate is, and judge how effective or successful an ad was. This is a feature of most online ad systems, and we felt it would be cheesy not to have it. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Redirect Load (none / 0) (#221)
by belg4mit on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 08:50:57 PM EST

Well I don't know how you are doing it, but to be able to have you cake and eat it too the redirection could be done through a very lightweight server (thttpd?). Simply log the URl and redirect(ought to be able to inline this into the server, no CGI), parse the log later.

[ Parent ]
Er (none / 0) (#225)
by greenrd on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 10:03:20 PM EST

You can't run two processes on port 80 - except by chaining them in some way. Which defeats the point of the exercise. Apache will be faster doing its own redirects than poncing around with some other process.

Unless k5 have a spare machine which can be dedicated to redirects, which I very much doubt.

Best not to use ports other than 80 because some firewalls are very strict about that.


"Capitalism is the absurd belief that the worst of men, for the worst of reasons, will somehow work for the benefit of us all." -- John Maynard Keynes
[ Parent ]

Un-er (none / 0) (#271)
by belg4mit on Fri Mar 15, 2002 at 07:08:49 PM EST

Obviously you cannot have two services on a given ip:port, but there is no reason that the click-thru data gatherer needs to be on port 80. Comments concerning internal redirection in Apache are irrelevant as the redirect is to another site, further any such gains in a different siutation are only applicable if the client is speaking HTTP/1.1 My point was that a smaller lighter server for this which did not pass the data off into a database would provide a more instantaneous response.

[ Parent ]
Questions/Etiquette (5.00 / 2) (#172)
by MrZaius on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 01:12:43 PM EST

What is/is not appropriate in these text ads? http://www.kuro5hin.org/submitad says: "Ads will be reviewed for appropriateness by an administrator. Examples of things we won't approve are ads that lead to pages with lots of popups, ads for offensive sites, or things that are generally obnoxious. You will not be charged if your ad is not approved, and you will receive an email telling you why. Don't worry, most ads will be approved." But that's terribly vague. Just as a general rule, what is and is not acceptable in any text ads? Resume-pimping? Lil' prayers to the spork-god? Personals? How will "obnoxious" be defined?

More ad guidelines (5.00 / 2) (#173)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 01:37:43 PM EST

I didn't want to lay down rules that were too strict, because to an extent, it is a case-by-case thing. The only site content that I will pretty much reject out of hand is hate sites. That is, sites that promote or advocate violence or hatred toward a particular group of people based on things like race, color, religion, nationality, etc. I'm not going to try to define all possible types of "hate site" but we all pretty much know them when we see them.

Most of my requirements are just formal. If your target page spews up a bunch of popups, it will probably be rejected as "annoying". One or two, not a big deal (we have an ad right now that goes to an mp3.com page that does launch one popup. I didn't think that was a huge issue). If your target page is, say, a giant picture of a gaping ass (for one random example) it will probably be rejected. Promoting commercial sites, or yourself, or whatever you want is the whole point of the thing, and those are encouraged. Also, random ads that are amusing but generally pointless will be gleefully accepted.

I will probably not accept ads that could open us to libel (slander? Dammit, which one is "printed matter"?). So an ad like "John P. Smith is a raging alcoholic" (assuming you are not John P. Smith) will probably not be accepted. Ads that make fun of me, or yourself, however, will be. Personals are fine by me.

The other big question was porn sites. I'm not going to issue a blanket rule banning all porn sites from advertising. However, my two requirements are that they be linked to a relatively tasteful landing page (i.e. minimum nudity, and nice-looking), and that they clearly say "adult content" in the ad. Or something that unmistakably warns you you are being linked to an adult site. I don't want people clicking over to pr0n while they're at work, without knowing what they're doing. So for porn site, the bar is rather higher than other kinds of sites. But I can think of a few offhand that would make the cut if they submitted an ad with the appropriate warning, so it's not out of the question.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

My .02$ (4.00 / 2) (#177)
by mitchellh on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 02:29:21 PM EST

As a relative newbie i thought i'd throw in my opnion. I relize servers/bandwidth/support costs money, if ads are what it takes to keep this great site going I'm all for it. Hell make them all the way along the top if that's what it takes.
Yes, I know I spell like the average 3rd grader
Comments and Questions (5.00 / 1) (#182)
by Anatta on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 03:14:03 PM EST

So it seems that the text ads are a hit! I have a couple of thoughts now that I've submitted an ad...

First off (and I don't know if this is already covered) will we receive an email telling us that our ad cycle has been completed? Thinking like an Evil Marketer, it would seem to be wise to have a link in the email to a "Purchase More Ads" page. I'm not sure if this is feasible considering the payment structure you've implemented (not holding credit card information in your database), but it would help sell ads. On that page it might be useful for a little "here's how successful your previous ad run was" information.

Also, some basic targeting would be interesting, though I think such targeting would have to be optional. For example, if ads could be broken down into various sections, similar to stories (e.g. Linux ads, Open Source Project ads, Personals ads, Music/Entertainment ads), targeting could work. There would need to be a corresponding "track me" option under user prefs which would allow the site to track the various ad clicks a user goes to. With those aspects in place, I could conceivably target my ad primarily to people who have clicked on Music/Entertainment ads before, or someone working on an Open Source project could target people who have clicked on Open Source pages before. And of course, K5 could charge more $$$ for targeted ads.

There are obviously some privacy issues involved here, and the "track me" option should be defaulted to OFF, but my guess is most users won't be too worried about being tracked while clicking the text ads, as it's all part of the "help the community" spirit. These ideas might be more of a pain to implement than they're worth, but they probably merit some consideration (if they haven't been discussed before.)
My Music

About categorization (none / 0) (#197)
by krogoth on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 05:24:21 PM EST

I think making a whole new category system would practically make the ad system a whole new site, but maybe they could be optionally classified with the existing categories?
--
"If you've never removed your pants and climbed into a tree to swear drunkenly at stuck-up rich kids, I highly recommend it."
:wq
[ Parent ]
Couple questions/ideas (none / 0) (#184)
by J'raxis on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 03:21:47 PM EST

The link color appears to be slightly lighter than the rest of the site’s links; it looks more like the visited-link color even before I have visited the link. Is this intentional?

Are you planning on preventing a user’s own ad being displayed back to them? I’m fairly sure I would not click my own ad. :)

It would be nice, if possible, if you allowed HTML entities (&amp, &#8220, etc.) and maybe simple HTML styling tags like <em> and <code> in submissions.

Even though I absolutely loathe obtrusive advertisements, these text ads really should stand out a bit more. Maybe a different color, or solid blue with white text (sort of an inverted theme). Google has a way of using pastel colors that mark the ads off, make them noticeable, but do not make them annoying. Right now, I didn’t even notice it, considering I rarely if ever look at that sidebar, and it blends in perfectly.

— The Raxis

[ J’raxis·Com | Liberty in your lifetime ]

Sundry (5.00 / 2) (#185)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 03:59:03 PM EST

The link color appears to be slightly lighter than the rest of the site's links; it looks more like the visited-link color even before I have visited the link. Is this intentional?

Um, I'm not sure. I'll check the html.

Are you planning on preventing a user's own ad being displayed back to them? I'm fairly sure I would not click my own ad. :)

You might see your own ad, but it won't count against your impressions if you do. Nor will it count clickthroughs if you're the one clickng.

It would be nice, if possible, if you allowed HTML entities (&amp, &#8220, etc.) and maybe simple HTML styling tags

We shall see. That will take a little more work on the ad code itself, but it seems like soemthing we ought to have.

Even though I absolutely loathe obtrusive advertisements, these text ads really should stand out a bit more.

I had a thin orange line around them earlier, instead of black. I quite liked how it looked. Some other people didn't, though. Dammit, I don't know what to do. Some people want them to stand out, some people don't. Yeesh. There seems to be no universally acceptable answer.

Ok, I just took a poll in #scoop, and "orange border" won by one vote. We'll give that a try for a while.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Orange borders (5.00 / 1) (#188)
by bowline on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 04:12:48 PM EST

Let the complainers buy subscriptions! I think it looks good. Maybe you should try "promicro green" too. That looks alright on the page, and stands out too.

[ Parent ]
I like the orange, myself (4.00 / 1) (#190)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 04:21:40 PM EST

I think the orange looks decent. Not too jarring, and it's a good complement to the blue. Give it a couple days (those of you who don't like it) and see if it grows on you.

I don't particularly like the promicro green, myself. I'd rather not use that elsewhere. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

The promicro green grows on you (none / 0) (#209)
by wiredog on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 06:41:33 PM EST

like a fungus...

Peoples Front To Reunite Gondwanaland: "Stop the Laurasian Separatist Movement!"
[ Parent ]
Orange is good, etc. (none / 0) (#202)
by J'raxis on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 06:00:54 PM EST

The orange border is good. It makes you look at the ad, but doesn’t make the ad scream for attention like the animated jizz you see on every other site (wobbling credit cards? words that zoom in and out? etc.).

The HTML entities and simple typographical-styling tags like emphasis aren’t vital, but I think they improve text quality. Curly quotes, trademark symbols, book titles in italics, and so on. If you’ve seen my sig, you already know the curly-quote–fetish I have, so… :)

— The Raxis

[ J’raxis·Com | Liberty in your lifetime ]
[ Parent ]

Borders and Pages (none / 0) (#210)
by matthead on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 06:53:53 PM EST

I like the orange border. It makes it stand out, without making it painful to look at. A subdued, but different background color (like Google) would be just fine, I think. Someone else in here suggested pale yellow (like "moccasin" in my rgb.txt file), which I think looks good.

Another question, though: will the ads ever show up on any other pages? Right now I only see them on the front page. They'd probably work better (get more hits) if they showed up on article & comment views, topic browse pages, etc. Maybe not every page view - the different formats make it a little harder to figure out where it should fit in, I guess.

- Matthead
[ Parent ]
Maybe (none / 0) (#213)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 07:24:03 PM EST

About having them on other pages: right now I'm trying to maintain it so a typical 4K campaign runs for about 4 days. It appears, right now, that we're right about at that level, which means I don't want to put them on other pages yet because then they'd all cycle through too fast. In my experience with textads elsewhere, and ads in general, it seems that after about four days, everyone's seen your ad and will, in the future, ignore it, and for the good of all of us, you should make a new one.

If (fingers crossed) we have enough ads in rotation to make it work, I do plan to bring them onto other pages. I also want to offer perhaps some ads in different locations, and with some different kinds of features. Keep an eye out. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

USER PREFRENCE!! (none / 0) (#241)
by autopr0n on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 06:43:24 AM EST

Why not make it a user prefrence?


[autopr0n] got pr0n?
autopr0n.com is a categorically searchable database of porn links, updated every day (or so). no popups!
[ Parent ]
Bought Ad, Seeing Others' Over and Over (none / 0) (#186)
by maveness on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 04:05:08 PM EST

Just like everyone else, I want my 15 secs of fame. My approved ad has yet to appear in my browser, although I'm seeing many others more than once. Is there a lag before approval and regular appearance?

*********
Latest fortune cookie: "The current year will bring you much happiness." As if.

No lag, really (none / 0) (#189)
by rusty on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 04:12:55 PM EST

When you ge your approval mail, the most time that can elapse before your ad is actually live and running is about 5 minutes. Of course, there are a lot of ads in the system, and they're rotating continuously across a hundred apache processes on three machines, so there's no real way to predict if you'll ever see your own ad. But I promise you it's out there, earning it's 60 characters worth.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Can I be exempted from seeing ads? (5.00 / 1) (#193)
by The KuroBot on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 04:41:46 PM EST

Seeing as I'm only a bot who checks the front page regularly for new diary entries, it seems wasteful that people's hard-earned ad impressions would be spent on me. I hardly have time to click on ads between tirelessly monitoring the K5 queue and the front page for the benefit of my subscribers. I would hate to think that I'm ripping advertisers off :-)

good idea (none / 0) (#203)
by hurstdog on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 06:24:34 PM EST

I'll see what we can do



[ Parent ]
but you have enough time to post on k5! (none / 0) (#233)
by Delirium on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 12:02:02 AM EST



[ Parent ]
Didn't I already click on that ad? (none / 0) (#195)
by Talemon on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 04:57:52 PM EST

I'm sorry if anyone else has already suggested this, but would there be any way of making sure you don't see the same ad over and over again? Especially if you have already clicked on it! It just gets annoying. :)


not sure (none / 0) (#205)
by martman on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 06:26:21 PM EST

I think somewhere down there in this tornado discussion is a comment from hurstdog saying that "right now its a simple round robin, last seen, first shown". I would suppose that if that statement is correct then perhaps the reason you would see the same ad over and over is that someone has bought the same ad, over and over (as opposed to buying one ad, with lots of pageviews).

[ Parent ]
not exactly (none / 0) (#211)
by hurstdog on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 07:02:30 PM EST

They all get shown in order, and if I have 4000 ads, then they will go through the rotation 4 times. If you see multiple of the same ad it just means it got through the rotation already. If you see a whole lot of duplicates, then we're running out of ads, and you should all buy more! :-)



[ Parent ]
Yes, but... (none / 0) (#220)
by Talemon on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 08:22:43 PM EST

I'm not likely to click on the same link twice, which will hurt the click-through ratio. I know you can't do any better with guests, but by making sure users don't see an ad twice, it helps the buyer of the ad because more people see it, and it helps us because we see more ads (and don't get annoyed at the 10th time we've seen the same ad). Also, perhaps if for some reason there simply ISN'T an ad to display, put in a default. For instance:

Feed Rusty's cat!
Subscribe to K5 today!


[ Parent ]
Avoid running out of ads (none / 0) (#230)
by QuickFox on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 11:22:01 PM EST

Before you run out of ads, when the number of ads reaches a threshold, insert ads proposing that people buy more text ads.

To make them as alluring as possible, arrange a contest where we can all try to invent charming, alluring ads that will sway us all to buy more ads.

To illustrate what I mean, here's an example of a possible proposal for such a contest:

PLEASE! SAVE RUSTY'S CATS! PLEASE!
Mom look! Kitties! Soo cute!
Can't we have them for dinner?
Give a cat a fish and it eats for one day. Teach it how to fish, and though it'll eat for a lifetime, it'll call you a miser for not giving it your fish.
Terrorists can't threaten a country's freedom and democracy. Only lawmakers and voters can do that.

[ Parent ]
I like them. (4.66 / 3) (#196)
by jobi on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 05:02:14 PM EST

A new MLP on every reload :)
Good job making them so unobtrusive.

---
"[Y]ou can lecture me on bad language when you learn to use a fucking apostrophe."
108 clickthroughs! (none / 0) (#212)
by brainwane on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 07:19:56 PM EST

I've already gotten 108 clickthroughs to Cogito, Ergo Sumana. Yee-ha! I wish I had money for more impressions!
Your chicken, your egg, your problem.
I like them but... (5.00 / 3) (#214)
by Agent1 on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 07:36:49 PM EST

Could you launch them in a new window? :)


-Agent1
"Thats the whole point of the internet, to slander people anonymously." - Anonymous
Hear hear (none / 0) (#228)
by sgp on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 11:02:46 PM EST

Yes please - I might be interested, but I've really come for K5 itself; if they open in a new window, I can "mark" it for later

OK, I could do that myself, by right-click-whatever, but it'd be nice to have the ad not *replace* K5

There are 10 types of people in the world:
Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[ Parent ]

Use mozilla (none / 0) (#247)
by brunes69 on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 02:17:35 PM EST

...and click with the middle mouse button instead of the lef tone. Boom, new window. Works in Konqueror too.



---There is no Spoon---
[ Parent ]
Netscape too (none / 0) (#250)
by rusty on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 03:03:24 PM EST

Every linux browser I've ever used has worked that way, with middle-click opening a new window/tab. It's one of those things that makes me feel like a cripple on any other OS. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Rusty (none / 0) (#251)
by wiredog on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 03:44:32 PM EST

Check out my diary. It mentions Maine and doughnuts.

Peoples Front To Reunite Gondwanaland: "Stop the Laurasian Separatist Movement!"
[ Parent ]
and Opera ... (none / 0) (#258)
by Zathrus on Thu Mar 07, 2002 at 03:12:33 AM EST

"...and click with the middle mouse button instead of the lef tone. Boom, new window. Works in Konqueror too."

I'd just like to add Opera to that list. Middle click rocks.

Don't even get me started on "mouse-gestures" ...... ;)



"like a Mazda commercial with that creepy "zoom zoom" kid that goes on too long." - Filthy Critic
[ Parent ]
Thanks, but (none / 0) (#262)
by sgp on Thu Mar 07, 2002 at 10:32:23 PM EST

I'm perfectly aware of how to do it in my own browser - the "right-click-whatever" phrase was deliberately browser-independant... AFAIK most browsers can do it with right-click-whatever, and yes, Netscape can do it with a middle-mouse-click, but since I tend to use a 2-button laptop, middle-clicking (ie, both-at-once) can inadvertently become left-clicking. That's why I'd like K5 to do the target="_new" for me.

Steve.

There are 10 types of people in the world:
Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[ Parent ]

Some people wouldn't like, though (none / 0) (#229)
by martman on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 11:12:33 PM EST

Although I'm sure a lot would like it if they've disabled pop-ups or whatever, but that would defeat the purpose of the ads and of the subscriptions if it were the case, right? You anarchist, you.

If you mean could they launch a new window when you click through - just hold down shift while clicking, you lazy bum you.



[ Parent ]
Im for it (none / 0) (#268)
by verbatim on Sat Mar 09, 2002 at 04:22:25 PM EST

I would like it. Most other places to it too.

[ Parent ]
a user pref (none / 0) (#269)
by hurstdog on Sun Mar 10, 2002 at 01:28:36 PM EST

On of the things I'm adding today is the user pref for ads to display in a new window. Should be on k5 in a few days.



[ Parent ]
Good job on the ads, rusty! (5.00 / 2) (#227)
by ipoverscsi on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 10:13:11 PM EST

I just saw the ads today and I actually kind of like them. The position in the top left with the orange border and the big header really seems to work. The eye falls there pretty easily, but it not offended by dancing monkies!

Plus, if it's mostly kuro5hin people buying the ads I'm sure they'll be really interesting reading!



Profit Warning! (5.00 / 4) (#231)
by martman on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 11:38:09 PM EST

Would it be a good idea to have some sort of thermostat somewhere showing 'income garnered from text-ads this month'? I realise that this might be an invasion of the k5 admin's privacy, so i understand if it's just not on. But on the other hand I would be curious and I think others would be too. So, in the interests of openness and honesty in the wake of the Enron fiasco how about a public metre displaying rusty's cats monthly pocket money allowance?

addendum (5.00 / 2) (#232)
by martman on Tue Mar 05, 2002 at 11:47:13 PM EST

Further to that idea - what about a sort of 'mission control' page where we can go to just see stats about k5? e.g. new users per day, number of comments today, average story rating for today.

It'd be just like watching the weather channel!



[ Parent ]
Serious? (none / 0) (#254)
by UncleMikey on Thu Mar 07, 2002 at 12:39:36 AM EST

I have no idea how serious you were about this, but personally, I couldn't care less if Rusty makes a huge rollicking fortune off the text ads and subscriptions (not that he will). K5 engages my brain on a daily basis, even when that engagement is irritation at cluelessness. That's a hell of a lot more than most other forms of 'entertainment' manage. I'm also contemplating using the Scoop package to run a site of my own. So if my own little contributions help keep Rusty, his family, and his cat neck-deep in tuna, I'm all for it.
--
[ Uncle Mikey | Radio Free Tomorrow ]
[ Parent ]
Something I'd like (4.50 / 2) (#240)
by Betcour on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 02:49:50 AM EST

...geotargetting. I'd be willing to buy some ads but being from a non-English speaking country, that would be a waste of money without geotargetting.

Future text ad direction. (5.00 / 2) (#244)
by mahlen on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 12:31:37 PM EST

Rusty, in your article you note a bunch of limitations that your ad service currently has (no time limits on ads, etc.) I actually work (as a coder) for an advertising agency (www.harmonic.net), would it be worth my time to ask our media people what features they most want and report back to you? Or would you rather grow the service without the influence of the agency world, and see what happens?

mahlen

Never bother to test for an error condition you don't know how to handle if it
actually occurred.

Certainly (5.00 / 1) (#245)
by rusty on Wed Mar 06, 2002 at 12:38:23 PM EST

It would certainly be helpful to know what advertisers want. I'm not saying we'll definitely do it, but it gives us an idea of what direction to go in, featurewise.

If there's anyone there that is looking for low cost and decent response, and has something that K5ers would be interested in, please also point them toward /submitad, or tell them to email me and I'll explain why they should be advertising here. Or even if anyone's just curious abut what this whole textad thing is and why they should care. I'd very much like to get the "traditional" marketing world to understand and embrace this concept.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

What advertisers want (none / 0) (#257)
by skim123 on Thu Mar 07, 2002 at 01:40:15 AM EST

They want context sensitive text ads. When someone says, "Hey, Visual Studio .NET is pretty neat," Microsoft would love an ad (link) automatically inserted following that sentence saying, "Download a trial version of Visual Studio .NET." Similarly, if someone wrote, "Microsoft's application security history is terrible," I'm sure Oracle or Sun wouldn't mind having a text ad in there for them.

Unfortunately, these ads would blur the user's message (the editorial) with the marketing, which is every advertiser's wet dream.

Money is in some respects like fire; it is a very excellent servant but a terrible master.
PT Barnum


[ Parent ]
Context-sensitive text ads (none / 0) (#261)
by dlc on Thu Mar 07, 2002 at 01:01:08 PM EST

If story submissions had keywords (either manually entered by the author of the story or possibly by an automated process that did some kind of text indexing), then context-based text ads could be a possibility. Since all ads will be reviewed before they go onto the site, ads that had inappropriate keywords could be rejected (or the keyword in question removed).

Slots for keywords could be add at the bottom, near where the poll question and answers section is now on the New Story page. That would make it easy to limit the number of keywords per story, possibly to a pre-set number of keyword choices.

Finally, a straightforward, relatively limited, but easier to implement possibility would be to have the keywords allowed for text ads be specific to the section and topic lists.


(darren)

It is wrong always, everywhere and for everyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.
W. K. Clifford


[ Parent ]
How about prepayment by postal money order? (none / 0) (#263)
by bmasel on Fri Mar 08, 2002 at 01:49:42 AM EST

I don't do credit cards, and you get to keep all the money.


I am not currently Licensed to Practice in this State.
Coming soon (none / 0) (#267)
by rusty on Fri Mar 08, 2002 at 04:42:57 PM EST

When I get back home, I'm going to get a PO box. Stay tuned. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Impressed (none / 0) (#264)
by driftingwalrus on Fri Mar 08, 2002 at 09:37:49 AM EST

I'm very impressed with the way this is being handled, rusty is really listening to people. Slashdot has gone the obtrusive route, which has just encouraged me to switch back to reading kuro5hin.

Irritating potential customers is a bad idea.
"I drank WHAT?!" -- Socrates
i dont know about the rest of you (none / 0) (#265)
by Prophet themusicgod1 on Fri Mar 08, 2002 at 10:23:01 AM EST

but i've clicked on every text ad so far. they amaze me somehow...
"I suspect the best way to deal with procrastination is to put off the procrastination itself until later. I've been meaning to try this, but haven't gotten around to it yet."swr
The Joy of Text (Ads) | 271 comments (262 topical, 9 editorial, 0 hidden)
Display: Sort:

kuro5hin.org

[XML]
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. The Rest 2000 - Present Kuro5hin.org Inc.
See our legalese page for copyright policies. Please also read our Privacy Policy.
Kuro5hin.org is powered by Free Software, including Apache, Perl, and Linux, The Scoop Engine that runs this site is freely available, under the terms of the GPL.
Need some help? Email help@kuro5hin.org.
My heart's the long stairs.

Powered by Scoop create account | help/FAQ | mission | links | search | IRC | YOU choose the stories!