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By janra in Site News
Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:42:59 AM EST
Tags: Kuro5hin.org (all tags)
Kuro5hin.org

Account anonymization on Kuro5hin is a blunt tool at best with which to enforce community standards. It doesn't let the user know what behaviour crossed the line, and it doesn't let the other admins know what behaviour crossed the line either. (The admin that did the anonymization can leave a note, if they choose.) It also doesn't let the admins see what accounts the other admins think are worth watching.

Some time ago, rusty wrote the backend portions of a warning and abuse reporting system, and I got bored at work one day last month and wrote the final interface bits.

Update [2005-10-20 2:27:27 by janra]: A few clarifications seem to be in order... see inside.


Warnings

K5 now supports a warning mechanism in which users who violate community standards can be informed of that instead of silently having their account disabled. Warned users will see a notice of the warning on every page, and they will not be able to use their account until they acknowledge the warning. Once they have acknowledged the warning, their account will be restored to its previous status. Acknowledging a warning and then continuing to engage in the behaviour which prompted the warning will be considered grounds for account closure. Warnings are stored in a permanent record attached to a warned account.

Reporting Abuse

Although we try to see most things that happen on this site, we do sometimes miss abusive comments or patterns of behaviour. Right now, the only way for us to learn about the stuff we miss is either for somebody to email us to complain, or for us to look at the hidden comments to find those enough people found abusive. However, insisting that people email us to register complaints isn't very effective, and relying on hidden comments is a strategy easily defeated by circles of mutually annoying users. So we have implemented an abuse reporting system, in which you can report misbehaviour directly to the admins. If you go to someone's user page, there will be a form where you can describe what you're complaining about (include URLs!) and report that user. It will make it much easier for us to identify who is a problem and who is just goofing around. It ain't democracy, but at least it provides a clear channel for you to tell us when you think someone has crossed the line. It should be obvious that reporting people in order to annoy admins is a great way to get yourself noticed and warned.

These changes have been a long time in coming. It is our belief that they will help enforce community standards, make it more clear to people who have violated them what they have done wrong, and allow for improved communication between site admins and site users. Please let us know.

Update [2005-10-20 2:27:27 by janra]: A few things have come up in the comments below that should probably be addressed:

  • This whole system is not meant for "sanitizing" the site in any way. It's for giving accounts fair warning and keeping a record of what happened that the admins can see, instead of simply anonymizing an account. K5 has never been a "PG 13" site and we have no interest in making it such a thing.
  • The abuse reporting system and the warning system are not linked in any automatic way. The admins can delete and ignore abuse reports that they think is just somebody being oversensitive. The admins can also take note that one account is sending in lots of abuse reports, and give that account the warning.

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Display: Sort:
New features | 317 comments (317 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
huh... (2.00 / 6) (#1)
by kansur on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 01:42:14 PM EST

thats weird

Everyone's afraid to be the first to step into hell.

Will we be able to face our accusers? (2.80 / 5) (#2)
by LilDebbie on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 01:42:29 PM EST

Or will they remain anonymous? I see great abuse potential in this...

Cheers on the warning system though. Does that still apply to linking a certain photoshopped picture?

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

abuse (3.00 / 2) (#3)
by kansur on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 01:45:47 PM EST

Also making a new account allows one to annoy the admins over and over via comment spamming. Not that anyone would do this.

But still the admins should give 'fast response' priority to those whiners with many comments, since they're more part of the community.

Everyone's afraid to be the first to step into hell.
[ Parent ]

If only there was some way... (none / 1) (#7)
by daveybaby on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 02:02:52 PM EST

...to give each user a rating based on their posting history. Then that could somehow be used to prioritise people's abuse reporting.

But unfortunately i just cant see how such a system could ever be implemented.

[ Parent ]

Uhh (none / 1) (#10)
by pHatidic on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 02:08:41 PM EST

Why not just sort abuse complaints by day by the number of stories an account has posted, and by the number of comments if there is a tie. Not perfect of course, but pretty damn close.

[ Parent ]
Sure, just ignore the pleas of the ghetto-folk $ (none / 0) (#20)
by LilDebbie on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 02:27:24 PM EST



My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
It's the main reason why Slashdot sucks (2.85 / 7) (#57)
by MrHanky on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:33:26 PM EST

Everyone tries to get good 'karma', and posts a lot of pro-Apple bullshit, 'thinking-outside-of-the-box' pseudo-trolls that the hordes of dorky moderators fail to understand, and extreme loads of obvious shit that no one with any knowledge of the subject care about. Yeah, K5 is probably a bit of a popularity contest as well, but not through an abstract system of ratings based on comment history. The only thing we all seem to agree on is that we like LilDebbie and hate kitten.


"This was great, because it was a bunch of mature players who were able to express themselves and talk politics." Lettuce B-Free, on being a total fucking moron for Ron Paul.
[ Parent ]
Kitten's OK... (none / 0) (#73)
by mr strange on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:24:39 PM EST

...although he has been acting like a bit of an arse recently. PMT?

intrigued by your idea that fascism is feminine - livus
[ Parent ]
a nickel says they're one and the same $ (none / 1) (#75)
by zrail on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:25:30 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Then why does he keep zeroing me? $ (none / 1) (#78)
by LilDebbie on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:55:41 PM EST



My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
A clever way to maintain the ruse ... /nt (3.00 / 2) (#79)
by Ignore Amos on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:58:35 PM EST


And that explains why airplanes carry cargo on small boats floating in their cargo aquarium. - jmzero
[ Parent ]

Someone has to bring LilDebbie down. (none / 0) (#123)
by Lemon Juice on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 10:15:22 PM EST

and I have. I have destroyed his character.

[ Parent ]
What character? $ (none / 1) (#197)
by LilDebbie on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 12:42:05 PM EST



My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
No body jacks-off to Ayn Rand $ (3.00 / 2) (#203)
by SoupIsGoodFood on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 01:26:41 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Slashdot karma (none / 0) (#281)
by hackwrench on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 03:30:36 PM EST

There is a karma cap, and my Karma stays "Excellent" without me having to try. I think NTFS is the best Filesystem and one of my top reasons for staying on Windows. I don't particularly care for Apple. hackwrench - Slashdot User

[ Parent ]
then it would become a game (none / 1) (#151)
by richarj on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 12:28:32 AM EST

like slashdot. Where to get good Karma all you have to do is post a comment that is "deemed" good. So that's what people do and the true discussion goes straight out the door as people try to either troll or increase their Karma.

"if you are uncool, don't worry, K5 is still the place for you!" -- rusty
[ Parent ]
I would like to be able to face my abusers (3.00 / 7) (#9)
by Egil Skallagrimson on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 02:06:04 PM EST

(there are many, mind you) in a duel to the death.

----------------

Enterobacteria phage T2 is a virulent bacteriophage of the T4-like viruses genus, in the family Myoviridae. It infects E. coli and is the best known of the T-even phages. Its virion contains linear double-stranded DNA, terminally redundant and circularly permuted.
[ Parent ]

You mean this photoshopped picture? (3.00 / 3) (#46)
by it certainly is on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:40:30 PM EST

Surely not.

kur0shin.org -- it certainly is

Godwin's law [...] is impossible to violate except with an infinitely long thread that doesn't mention nazis.
[ Parent ]

Gah! Not work-safe [NT] (none / 0) (#74)
by Nimey on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:24:48 PM EST


--
Never mind, it was just the dog cumming -- jandev
You Sir, are an Ignorant Motherfucker. -- Crawford
I am arguably too manic to do that. -- Crawford
I already fuck my mother -- trane
Nimey is right -- Blastard
i am in complete agreement with Nimey -- i am a pretty big deal

[ Parent ]
Isn't it true... (3.00 / 4) (#4)
by NoMoreNicksLeft on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 01:48:31 PM EST

(Or at least Rusty's opinion) that only one person is really ever anonymized?

Granted, I had mine temporarily revoked at one point for something obnoxiously trollish... but Rusty was a good sport and restored it once he realized I wasn't totally incorrigible. (or that I wasn't Jason?)

Are there non-Jasons out there who are getting nailed, and do they generally keep it down to a dull roar enough that warnings would help?

But I suppose what I'm most curious about, is there an actual boolean in the warning table named "suspected of being Jason" ?

--
Do not look directly into laser with remaining good eye.

Ditto (none / 0) (#12)
by Smothie on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 02:16:52 PM EST



--

Please visit my scoop site, Guppylog - For help with all livebearing fish.
[ Parent ]
I've been nailed (none / 0) (#22)
by kansur on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 02:29:10 PM EST

Like at least five times. But I made this account to show the turnaround in my life. I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT. I'd post a list of all my old accounts but I'm a dick about anonymity so there ya go.

I suspect that he is smart, distraction-seeking/lazy/unambitious, and comfortable when alone. (Like myself)

Everyone's afraid to be the first to step into hell.
[ Parent ]

Comedic talent. (none / 0) (#32)
by NoMoreNicksLeft on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 02:38:46 PM EST

You say that even though you always show up on IRC via a proxy.

--
Do not look directly into laser with remaining good eye.
[ Parent ]
Lol (none / 0) (#44)
by Booji Boy on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:30:06 PM EST

A
|_A
   |_A

[ Parent ]
Hey! (none / 0) (#182)
by Booji Boy on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 09:43:33 AM EST

    A
    |_A  <---Has disappeared...
       |_A

You missed the other one.

[ Parent ]

Huh? $ (none / 0) (#204)
by SoupIsGoodFood on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 01:31:40 PM EST



[ Parent ]
I am not NIWS (3.00 / 2) (#113)
by Michael Moore IV on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 09:39:25 PM EST

But I've been anonymised over 40 times.

[ Parent ]
You really can't think of (3.00 / 3) (#148)
by vera on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 12:04:35 AM EST

anything better to do?

[ Parent ]
PoopyPeanutz was unjustly anonymized. $ (3.00 / 7) (#122)
by Lemon Juice on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 10:13:07 PM EST



[ Parent ]
IAWTP (2.50 / 2) (#171)
by bml on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 05:55:36 AM EST

If accounts can be un-anonymized, his should be.

The Internet is vast, and contains many people. This is the way of things. -- Russell Dovey
[ Parent ]
i couldn't disagree more (none / 1) (#175)
by fleece on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 07:35:56 AM EST

all those videos of cruelty to animals. you couldn't even put it down some sort of statement about cultural blinkers, blind to reality, and western society wrapped in cotton wool, because he was such a callous prick about it.



I feel like some drunken crazed lunatic trying to outguess a cat ~ Louis Winthorpe III
[ Parent ]
The animal cruelty videos (none / 1) (#176)
by bml on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 07:45:48 AM EST

were not exactly my cup of tea either. And he had his temper, yes. But he compensated enormously by contributing great content to the site.

IMHO.


The Internet is vast, and contains many people. This is the way of things. -- Russell Dovey
[ Parent ]

that's like saying (2.50 / 2) (#178)
by fleece on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 08:21:42 AM EST

yeah i know he rapes small children, but I forgive him for that, because he knows how to party!

I say you've got to judge people when they're at their worst, because anyone can be good on their good days.



I feel like some drunken crazed lunatic trying to outguess a cat ~ Louis Winthorpe III
[ Parent ]
Interesting theory (none / 1) (#179)
by Hung Fu on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 08:26:59 AM EST

So posting videos of animal cruelty is equivalent to raping small children? You don't happen to belong to PETA, do you?

__
From Israel To Lebanon
[ Parent ]
sure it was OTT, but it was a better analogy than (none / 1) (#180)
by fleece on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 08:33:22 AM EST

yeah, "i know he does bad stuff, but he does good stuff too!", which was the second best thing i had



I feel like some drunken crazed lunatic trying to outguess a cat ~ Louis Winthorpe III
[ Parent ]
I think the real reason... (3.00 / 2) (#216)
by creativedissonance on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 02:56:43 PM EST

..is that your child-rape analogy was inflammatory and inaccurate, whereas the bad/good stuff comment was actually accurate but unfortunate because it describes just about every member of the human species.


ay yo i run linux and word on the street
is that this is where i need to be to get my butt stuffed like a turkey - br14n
[ Parent ]
lol (none / 0) (#181)
by bml on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 09:02:45 AM EST

You're not too good at analogies, are you?

We all have good and bad things. As a k5 user, his bad things were probably worse than average, but his good things were really outstanding. So he came out ahead.

The Internet is vast, and contains many people. This is the way of things. -- Russell Dovey
[ Parent ]

But was he anonymized for animal cruelty? (none / 1) (#187)
by Lemon Juice on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 11:28:57 AM EST

no he wasn't he was anonymized because rusty thought he was NIWS. I'm sure if he was told not to post any more animal cruelty pics he wouldn't.

[ Parent ]
I've had seven (none / 0) (#205)
by SoupIsGoodFood on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 01:33:28 PM EST

Including this one. And I'd hardly consider myself a troll.

[ Parent ]
i was permabanned (none / 0) (#316)
by hildi on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 01:28:56 AM EST

as turmeric.

[ Parent ]
and who will be the executioner? (3.00 / 2) (#6)
by thekubrix on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 02:01:41 PM EST

How many admins are there? Or a better question, what do you expect the average time between a report of somthing obviously improper and when the account is eliminated?

Are the sufficient admins to cover the site at all apropriate times? Any intentions of adding more admins?

Haha (2.25 / 4) (#8)
by eumenides on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 02:03:39 PM EST

Posting early in legendary article announcing the feature that will kill K5.

big changes, once more (2.50 / 2) (#11)
by lostincali on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 02:14:40 PM EST

I'm interested to see how it plays out.

"The least busy day [at McDonalds] is Monday, and then sales increase throughout the week, I guess as enthusiasm for life dwindles."

What happens if an admin didn't get any last night (2.75 / 4) (#13)
by ksandstr on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 02:18:56 PM EST

And decides to take his morbidly obese angst out for a walk on a number of users? Will there be an appeals process, or will this leave everything open for stuff like that one guy who barely ever posts anything pulled on that HuSi CYOA story, only in the context of user anonymizations?

(For those who don't remember, said debacle was only resolved when the admin restored the story to its original glory voluntarily. I.e. the policy was that others would not step in. Fucking pussies IMO, but what can you do.)

Ooh, I've got another question! Does this protocol become The Grand Unified Anonymization Procedure or are out-of-the-blue kills still supported?

warnings (3.00 / 4) (#14)
by aphrael on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 02:23:56 PM EST

There's really very little reason to have an appeals process for warnings. What happens is that you get blocked from using the site until you click a checkbox which says that you acknowledge having read the warning.

If you've accumulated a bunch of warnings, then an admin is going to look at them, and may use that as evidence to support closing your account.

But this is power they already have. If anything, a warning system is less susceptible to abuse; the effect on the recipient is much less than the effect if the account is simply closed, and - in general - we're going to warn before closing.

[ Parent ]

i'm answering his questions. (none / 1) (#17)
by aphrael on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 02:25:13 PM EST

isn't that my job? :)

[ Parent ]
I have lived in California (none / 0) (#23)
by aphrael on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 02:29:42 PM EST

since 1983.

[ Parent ]
Any ideas (3.00 / 2) (#206)
by SoupIsGoodFood on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 01:40:41 PM EST

for the problem of missing comments that make a thread a pain in the ass to read?

[ Parent ]
Sure, but procedure is procedure (2.80 / 5) (#24)
by ksandstr on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 02:30:26 PM EST

And procedures have this nasty way of turning into excuses for enforcing ill-defined rules at what in the end turns out to be absolutely random. Sort of like democracy in an one-party state like Singapore: they'll have both elections and an authoritarian government. In the context of K5 this would translate into a group of admins who do things exactly as they used to, perhaps a little worse, all while claiming absolute fairness due to the Shiny Golden Procedure.

I guess we'll see how this turns out.

[ Parent ]

That's a legitimate fear. (2.66 / 3) (#30)
by aphrael on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 02:37:01 PM EST

I don't have a good answer to it. It's unfortunately necessary to have someone act as playground monitor; but "who guards the guardians" is a problem in any form of government.

[ Parent ]
That problem is far worse (none / 1) (#134)
by The Diary Section on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 10:50:42 PM EST

when the police are actually the secret police if you get my drift.
No need to reply though, we've been here before.
I'm just being consistent.
Spend 10 minutes in the company of an American and you end up feeling like a Keats or a Shelley: Thin, brilliant, suave, and desperate for industrial-scale quantities of opium.
[ Parent ]
What about peter? (none / 1) (#112)
by debacle on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 09:26:48 PM EST

I mean christ!

It tastes sweet.
[ Parent ]
Yes. (none / 0) (#211)
by ubernostrum on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 02:02:12 PM EST

Yes he is.




--
You cooin' with my bird?
[ Parent ]
What about me? (1.50 / 2) (#244)
by pwhysall on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 09:30:53 PM EST


--
Peter
K5 Editors
I'm going to wager that the story keeps getting dumped because it is a steaming pile of badly formatted fool-meme.
CheeseBurgerBrown
[ Parent ]
You're a bit jack-booted (3.00 / 2) (#311)
by debacle on Sat Oct 22, 2005 at 10:44:55 PM EST

And I haven't seen a smile evar.

It tastes sweet.
[ Parent ]
Hi Jason Pawloski (1.50 / 4) (#26)
by remoose on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 02:32:37 PM EST

A fine example of why nobody should hire you!

Thanks Jason Pawloski! (none / 1) (#29)
by remoose on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 02:36:43 PM EST

I've reported your account as abuse. Thanks for giving me an excuse to try the system!

[ Parent ]
Wow! (2.85 / 7) (#31)
by toulouse on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 02:37:18 PM EST

Warnings are stored in a permanent record

Scoop's got a stone mason backend now, huh? Impressive!


--
'My god...it's full of blogs.' - ktakki
--


Dear Sirs, (2.61 / 13) (#39)
by Wenceslaus of Bohemia on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:07:26 PM EST

Perhaps we will see some accountability now. I was once anonymised for being (and I quote an email from rusty) "a constant source of noise". This puzzled me, as the only zeroes I had ever recieved were from kitten and his IRC-modbombing buddy n1ckn4m3 and the majority of my comments were rated well above 2.5. Will the ideals of a site where the users actually choose what they want to see finally come about? We shall see.

PS ban kitten from using this new system please.

why? (none / 1) (#40)
by aphrael on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:13:51 PM EST

abuse reports do not generate an automatic response; they require operator interaction.

[ Parent ]
Ah, mised that point. (none / 0) (#105)
by Wenceslaus of Bohemia on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 09:15:33 PM EST

Thank you for the clarification.

[ Parent ]
Ah yes. (1.94 / 18) (#42)
by kitten on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 03:21:46 PM EST

When I zero a comment, there's a reason. If you don't like the fact that I zero your content-free, one-line "lol gay" drivel, then don't post it.

You, on the other hand, employed ten or so dupe accounts, each with consecutive UIDs, and strafed my comment history with ten zeros a piece.

You are nothing but a constant source of noise, and the only people that rate you up are your noise-producing crapflooding pals. If you don't like it, I suggest you go elsewhere. I will continue to zero shit when I see shit, and since you tend to post quite a bit of shit, I guess you're shit out of luck.
mirrorshades radio - darkwave, synthpop, industrial, futurepop.
[ Parent ]
Don't know, don't much care. (2.60 / 5) (#61)
by kitten on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:57:59 PM EST

He brought it up and I assumed that's what he was talking about. This may come as a surprise to you, since I'm sure you think you're very unforgettable, but I don't spend a lot of time thinking about anonymous nobodies who zeroed comments months ago. You're all completely interchangable anyway, so what difference does it really make if it was you or him?
mirrorshades radio - darkwave, synthpop, industrial, futurepop.
[ Parent ]
we love you too kitten (none / 0) (#121)
by Lemon Juice on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 10:09:12 PM EST

you're so cute.

[ Parent ]
Of course I am. (1.50 / 2) (#139)
by kitten on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 10:59:02 PM EST


mirrorshades radio - darkwave, synthpop, industrial, futurepop.
[ Parent ]
0 [nt] (1.50 / 6) (#50)
by Patrick Chalmers on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:10:11 PM EST


Holy crap, working comment search!
[ Parent ]
What kind of loser... (1.55 / 9) (#51)
by bighappyface on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:24:46 PM EST

...takes the time to 0 comments.

And argue pointless drivel for hours about Baldrson.

Get a life.

[ Parent ]

wtf? That's the whole of the site! $ (none / 1) (#69)
by mr strange on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:16:39 PM EST



intrigued by your idea that fascism is feminine - livus
[ Parent ]
IAWTP (none / 0) (#158)
by Shimmer on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 02:42:11 AM EST

I never even look at comment ratings, mine or anyone  else's. Half this thread doesn't even make any sense to me. Am I missing all the fun or what?

Wizard needs food badly.
[ Parent ]
please sir, (2.00 / 2) (#104)
by Wenceslaus of Bohemia on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 09:13:55 PM EST

tell me which accounts you believe are my dupes.

I have never utilised more than one account at a time, only creating new ones when necessary (i.e. anonyimsation). It's not too hard to tell which accounts are mine, they follow a fairly simple naming pattern.

I will admit to some spurious zeroing of your posts, mainly the ones that are 99% furious vitriol with a hint of a point cowering within. I enjoy seeing my own comments from weeks past being subsequently modded down within the next few hours.

[ Parent ]

See my reply to the other guy below. (1.20 / 5) (#127)
by kitten on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 10:27:00 PM EST

You all act the same, operate the same, write the same, pull the same bullshit, so whether it was actually you or not is a) impossible to determine and b) completely inconsequential. You're all interchangable.
mirrorshades radio - darkwave, synthpop, industrial, futurepop.
[ Parent ]
Of course we are all the same. (none / 1) (#129)
by Wenceslaus of Bohemia on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 10:30:17 PM EST

your stunning logic has proven that it was indeed I who modbombed you with sequential UIDs, and therefore your response was completely rational.

You will make a fantastic lawyer with arguments like that.

[ Parent ]

I didn't say you were actually the same person. (1.20 / 5) (#136)
by kitten on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 10:55:26 PM EST

I said that you might as well be. Your generic brand of idiocy isn't nearly as memorable as you think it is.
mirrorshades radio - darkwave, synthpop, industrial, futurepop.
[ Parent ]
And that this state of (3.00 / 2) (#154)
by Wenceslaus of Bohemia on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 01:34:13 AM EST

"might as well being" another account that modbombed you with sequential accounts justifies your comments in the initial reply? Your twisted web of convoluted logic is nearing breaking point.

[ Parent ]
So (1.00 / 3) (#199)
by kitten on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 12:47:16 PM EST

I'm supposed to keep track of which of you generic morons is which? Please, I have better things to do. You brought it up, and not having access to K5's logs, I made the only logical deduction, which is that the person that was whinging about it was the person who had a reason to whinge.

When discussing a bunch of anonymized, anonymous nobodies whose primary contribution around here is jerking each other off, logic isn't all that important. I don't care who you are, and I will continue to zero shit when I see it, whether it's from you or some other shithead.
mirrorshades radio - darkwave, synthpop, industrial, futurepop.
[ Parent ]
Please sir, (3.00 / 2) (#215)
by Wenceslaus of Bohemia on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 02:51:58 PM EST

be consistent with your posts. We have already accepted the fact that my mention of your zeroes was a statement of fact, not a "whinge" of any kind. If one were following this conversation critically one might accuse you of attempting somewhat underhand tricks of rhetoric.

I am not trying to establish some kind of relationship with your esteemed personage, but thank you for once again putting words in my mouth. I believe I shall relegate talking to you as the proverbial "banging ones head against the wall" and cease my attempts to break through your falsehoods and half-truths.

Good-day to you.

[ Parent ]

Please sir, (1.50 / 4) (#227)
by kitten on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 05:31:21 PM EST

"We" have not accepted anything -- you merely asserted that was your intention, and I don't really care.

I'm not sure how many times I can tell you how I don't care about
  • who you are
  • who your dupe accounts are
  • who your dupe accounts have been
  • what you think
  • what you say
  • your opinion of me
  • your opinion of anything else
I don't care. All your bleatings and holier-than-thou assertions about your most noble intentions with faux-sincere undertones notwithstanding, you're talking to someone who doesn't care.

I believe I shall relegate talking to you as the proverbial "banging ones head against the wall"

So good, we're in agreement that you trying to convince someone who doesn't believe you about something he doesn't care about is kind of pointless. Now, piss off.
mirrorshades radio - darkwave, synthpop, industrial, futurepop.
[ Parent ]
Also, (2.00 / 2) (#108)
by Wenceslaus of Bohemia on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 09:21:20 PM EST

I reported your zeroing as a matter of fact, not as any sort of complaint. When they are usually overwhelmed with a flurry of non-zero ratings they are of no concern.

It is interesting that such a staunch advocate of a "noise" free site has one of the worst hidden/visible comment ratios among active accounts, is it not?

[ Parent ]

Oh? (1.20 / 5) (#132)
by kitten on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 10:39:29 PM EST

Other than a recent altercation with "nigga", my comments are rarely hidden. And when those were hidden, they were mostly zeroed by you and other equally sterling "personalities" like "AlwaysAnonymized" or "Anonymated" or whatever the hell he's come up with next. Of course, the kicker for the whole debacle was me saying I don't much like CYOA stories. I can see how that would be quite content-free.

I reported your zeroing as a matter of fact, not as any sort of complaint.

Then as someone who appreciates Just The Facts, I'm sure you can appreciate that when you're repeatedly deleted for posting drivel, it's a message that no one gives two tugs of a dead dog's cock about you, and you should be on your way, instead of coming back with more and more lame accounts.
mirrorshades radio - darkwave, synthpop, industrial, futurepop.
[ Parent ]
I enjoy the way (2.33 / 3) (#153)
by Wenceslaus of Bohemia on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 01:31:24 AM EST

you sneak adjectives like "repeatedly" in there for which you have no evidence, or really any basis to believe so. If you can truly not tell "us" all apart how do you come up with these facts you seem so convinced in?

A quick perusal of your hidden comments section shows 103 hidden comments, 2.5% of the total. Contrast this with my stirling 0.5% (yes I did go back and check all of my accounts) and we quickly see who contributes the most "noise" to the site.

[ Parent ]

repeatedly is an adverb (3.00 / 3) (#177)
by fleece on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 07:48:32 AM EST

careful, a bloke could get anonymized for that sort of ignorance



I feel like some drunken crazed lunatic trying to outguess a cat ~ Louis Winthorpe III
[ Parent ]
Uh huh (1.33 / 3) (#198)
by kitten on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 12:42:43 PM EST

ou sneak adjectives like "repeatedly" in there for which you have no evidence

Yes, I "snuck" it in there, hoping no one would notice. But you, you clever man, you caught me! The jig is up!

You have been anonymized at least twice that I know of and several more that I suspect, making it "repeated". Of course, you yourself admit:
(yes I did go back and check all of my accounts)
which means you've had plenty of accounts. Thanks for proving my point for me.

You'll forgive me for not being impressed by the fact that my comments were hidden by "AlwaysAnonymized" or "army of phred" "bg ex plus alpha" or you, or any number of other pointless accounts created just for the purpose of stirring shit up, all of which represent the same handful of jokers who have been kicked out time and time again.

These are, conveniently enough, the same accounts that rate you up when you're posting your "cocksucking sluts" or "lol gay sex" commentary.


mirrorshades radio - darkwave, synthpop, industrial, futurepop.
[ Parent ]
kitten, if they never posted that Baldrson would (2.75 / 4) (#200)
by Lemon Juice on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 12:57:00 PM EST

have been anonymized. They fulfill a service to us all making sure that freedom of speech exists here. By constantly pushing the limits they show other users what those limits are, and encourage them to go a little further than they normally would because of previous fear. You should thank them kitten.  I bet even you have changed your behaviour after seeing what trolls could get away with.

[ Parent ]
Oh yes, how silly of me. (1.00 / 3) (#226)
by kitten on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 05:26:15 PM EST

Why, it's not just a bunch of dorks taking advantage of being anonymous and untouchable. It's obviously a group of edgy, in-your-face, devil-may-care types, trying to rip into the soft belly of stagnant culture and show everyone how hard fucking core life can really be if you don't hold back from bellowing "gay sex lol" whenever it occurs to you. Yeah.

And for the record I don't give a fuck if Baldrson gets anonymized or not, any more than I give a fuck what the "trolls" can get away with or not.
mirrorshades radio - darkwave, synthpop, industrial, futurepop.
[ Parent ]
You care alot, dont lie. (3.00 / 2) (#230)
by Lemon Juice on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 06:53:14 PM EST

The worst thing you can do is lie to yourself. Don't do that, you're better than that. You care alot about the trolls and their behaviour.

[ Parent ]
Wrong again, Albert. (1.00 / 4) (#250)
by kitten on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 10:01:16 PM EST


mirrorshades radio - darkwave, synthpop, industrial, futurepop.
[ Parent ]
if you didn't care why would you invest (2.50 / 4) (#255)
by Lemon Juice on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 10:31:41 PM EST

most of your time here in trollery? and rating comments 0s

[ Parent ]
You lose again. (1.16 / 6) (#275)
by kitten on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 09:17:03 AM EST


mirrorshades radio - darkwave, synthpop, industrial, futurepop.
[ Parent ]
Go back to slashdot $ (2.25 / 4) (#222)
by LilDebbie on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 04:38:47 PM EST



My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
But I need his 3s to stop your 0s (none / 1) (#120)
by Lemon Juice on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 10:07:39 PM EST

don't you see that your 0s only serve to continue his behaviour?

[ Parent ]
Hi kitten (none / 0) (#137)
by STFUYHBT on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 10:55:45 PM EST

I love you

-
"Of all the myriad forms of life here, the 'troll-diagnostic' is surely the lowest, yes?" -medham
[ Parent ]
Hi, I love you too. (3.00 / 4) (#141)
by kitten on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 11:00:57 PM EST

But I do feel the need to see other people.
mirrorshades radio - darkwave, synthpop, industrial, futurepop.
[ Parent ]
Probably pwhysall (3.00 / 3) (#208)
by SoupIsGoodFood on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 01:49:57 PM EST

He hangs with kitten and n1ckn4m3 on IRC.

[ Parent ]
No, it was rusty. (none / 0) (#237)
by Wenceslaus of Bohemia on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 09:02:33 PM EST



[ Parent ]
I do not, sir. (1.00 / 4) (#242)
by pwhysall on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 09:25:01 PM EST


--
Peter
K5 Editors
I'm going to wager that the story keeps getting dumped because it is a steaming pile of badly formatted fool-meme.
CheeseBurgerBrown
[ Parent ]
Since when? $ (none / 1) (#265)
by SoupIsGoodFood on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 12:58:31 AM EST



[ Parent ]
Since around the time (none / 0) (#271)
by ubernostrum on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 05:23:21 AM EST

your spoon got stolen. Have you caught up with it yet?




--
You cooin' with my bird?
[ Parent ]
My spoon? (none / 0) (#276)
by SoupIsGoodFood on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 09:25:02 AM EST

Were cows involved?

[ Parent ]
Yes. (none / 1) (#317)
by student on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 09:45:56 AM EST

Cows


Simon's Rock College of Bard, a college for younger scholars.
[ Parent ]
This is outrageous. (3.00 / 3) (#47)
by Dupe Account 2006 on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:00:48 PM EST

I've posted 3 (THREE) diaries today.

Where is my warning?

--
"All I've ever needed was a soft felt fedora, a well-tailored overcoat and a comfy pair of sneakers. Some people know what they like, and they stay with it." -- Tex Murphy, Under a Killing Moon

that rule is and always has been a myth. (none / 1) (#56)
by aphrael on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:32:52 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Social norms are powerful rules. $ (3.00 / 3) (#119)
by Lemon Juice on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 10:06:14 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Can it not be a myth? (none / 0) (#223)
by LilDebbie on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 04:41:08 PM EST

Aside from tweetsy and Jason when he's crapflooding, who doesn't hold true to the no more than two a day rule?

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
The warning bell should be in your head (3.00 / 4) (#170)
by ljj on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 05:53:54 AM EST

I must spend less time online

I must spend less time online

I must spend less time online

I must spend less time online

I must spend less time online

--
ljj
[ Parent ]

are you even aware of the irony in that comment $ (none / 0) (#173)
by creativedissonance on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 06:39:44 AM EST




ay yo i run linux and word on the street
is that this is where i need to be to get my butt stuffed like a turkey - br14n
[ Parent ]
it is there (3.00 / 4) (#183)
by ljj on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 10:16:40 AM EST

To reward clever guys like you.

--
ljj
[ Parent ]

Line. Line? (2.00 / 2) (#48)
by Patrick Chalmers on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:09:04 PM EST

<i>Account anonymization on Kuro5hin is a blunt tool at best with which to enforce community standards. It doesn't let the user know what behaviour crossed the line, and it doesn't let the other admins know what behaviour crossed the line either.</i>

There was a <i>line</i>?

p.s. ban kitten
Holy crap, working comment search!

lol "Plain Text" setting :( [nt] (none / 1) (#49)
by Patrick Chalmers on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:09:21 PM EST


Holy crap, working comment search!
[ Parent ]
I agree. (2.33 / 3) (#59)
by bighappyface on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:51:43 PM EST

Ban kitten.

[ Parent ]
I concurrently agree (1.50 / 2) (#110)
by debacle on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 09:25:01 PM EST

Ban kitten.

It tastes sweet.
[ Parent ]
Would we get banned for... (2.50 / 4) (#99)
by bighappyface on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 08:26:37 PM EST

...starting a ban kitten coalition, and all putting 'Member of the Ban Kitten Coalition' in our sigs?

[ Parent ]
No. (none / 1) (#270)
by ubernostrum on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 05:22:36 AM EST

But you would be laughed at for having nothing better to do with your time than trying to harass someone using the internets.

Isn't it about time you guys dug up Vlad's corpse and gangbanged it again?




--
You cooin' with my bird?
[ Parent ]
It's telling (3.00 / 4) (#52)
by killmepleez on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:25:37 PM EST

that roughly 92% of the comments on this particular thread are from UIDs above 60,000.

__
"I instantly realized that everything in my life that I thought was unfixable was totally fixable - except for having just jumped."
--from "J
Well, all the others got anonymised. [nt] (1.80 / 5) (#54)
by Patrick Chalmers on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:29:58 PM EST


Holy crap, working comment search!
[ Parent ]
Untrue: we just don't care. (2.50 / 2) (#68)
by glor on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:16:06 PM EST


--
Disclaimer: I am not the most intelligent kuron.
[ Parent ]

IAWTP /nt (none / 0) (#88)
by localroger on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 07:53:35 PM EST



I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]
IDWTP (none / 0) (#147)
by The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 11:45:42 PM EST



___
I'm a pompous windbag, I take myself far too seriously, and I single-handedly messed up K5 by causing the fiction section to be created. --localroger

[ Parent ]
IHATA (none / 0) (#157)
by IceTitan on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 02:31:18 AM EST


Nuke 'em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
[ Parent ]
IBOPA /nt (none / 0) (#196)
by Ignore Amos on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 12:34:01 PM EST


And that explains why airplanes carry cargo on small boats floating in their cargo aquarium. - jmzero
[ Parent ]

I'm sorry to hear (3.00 / 6) (#201)
by killmepleez on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 12:58:32 PM EST

that you have advanaced testicular atrophy.
My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family during this difficult time.

__
"I instantly realized that everything in my life that I thought was unfixable was totally fixable - except for having just jumped."
--from "J
[ Parent ]
tha was (none / 0) (#318)
by Run4YourLives on Fri Oct 28, 2005 at 07:52:27 PM EST

the only damn worthwhile thing said in this whole thread.

It's slightly Japanese, but without all of that fanatical devotion to the workplace. - CheeseburgerBrown
[ Parent ]
IAWTP2 (none / 1) (#207)
by rhdntd on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 01:41:20 PM EST

& w/#57. MrHanky already said it all.

-- 
"book chicks really seem to like anal"
  — Lady 3Jane
[ Parent ]
By rating your comment ... (none / 0) (#220)
by glor on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 04:08:00 PM EST

... have I invalidated the point you were trying to make?

--
Disclaimer: I am not the most intelligent kuron.
[ Parent ]

awesome! (2.11 / 9) (#53)
by circletimessquare on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:28:04 PM EST

i give myself 3 days before some weak willed pud still on his wet nurse who thinks this site is an academic conference complains that i called them a bad name

waaaah, kuro5hin should have padding on every wall and all the exits should be clearly marked, waaah, someone might get hurt!

waaaah

i'll be out of here in 3 days, tops

how many nurse ratchet fucks are there here gunning for me anyways?

any big native americans here, if you see me come back from a vacation in a lobotomized stupor, please smother with a pillow, thanks

admins: PLEASE DON'T LOBOTOMIZE THE SIGHT FOR THE SAKE OF THE SENSITIVITIES OF THE DELICATE CHILDREN STILL IN DIAPERS HERE

IF THEY ARE ALLOWED TO SANITIZE THIS SITE TO THEIR STANDARDS OF ELEVATOR MUSIC DECORUM, YOU'LL KILL THIS PLACE


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

give us some credit. (3.00 / 5) (#55)
by aphrael on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:32:03 PM EST

the abuse report will be made. we'll look at it. we'll go "that abuse report is an abuse of the abuse reporting system", and then ignore it.

[ Parent ]
cool, you won't kill me? (2.00 / 4) (#58)
by circletimessquare on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:36:09 PM EST

i can still talk about pissing in people's faces and calling them retarded fuckwads? ;-)

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
I did not say (none / 1) (#60)
by aphrael on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 04:57:47 PM EST

that there were no circumstances in which your account would be killed. Nobody, not even me, has that kind of global immunity.

But I do think that your behavior doesn't consistently violate the rules.

[ Parent ]

Maybe you need to change the rules (2.75 / 4) (#65)
by Cro Magnon on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:08:06 PM EST

There should be one against vertical spam. :-P
Information wants to be beer.
[ Parent ]
maybe you should suck my dick (nt) (2.20 / 5) (#72)
by circletimessquare on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:24:31 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
I would worry more about people using you (none / 1) (#118)
by Lemon Juice on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 10:04:34 PM EST

and your comments to justify trollish behaviour, and then you getting warned because they dont want a troll to act that way. Take the comment you just made. It could be used against me when I tell Goth Girl the same thing.

[ Parent ]
ah, the slippery slope (1.00 / 3) (#142)
by circletimessquare on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 11:17:59 PM EST

never ,never express your true mind because somewhere somebody with delicate sensibilities might have their feelings hurt... through some sort of creative and tenuous line of reasoning

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
I'm on your side. (none / 0) (#188)
by Lemon Juice on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 11:31:06 AM EST

I'm just saying that is the biggest threat you have to worry about. Even if you say you don't have a free pass to do as you like, you do.  Everyone knows it.

[ Parent ]
no, you're wrong (1.50 / 2) (#228)
by circletimessquare on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 05:48:29 PM EST

the existence of people who would use any line of reasoning that they could sell to the most gullible or partisan or stupid is never a valid excuse to change your behavior

the issue always is that such people who would use such incredible excuses are the ones committing the original sin, not me

i in no way should change my behavior because of them, because that would be admitting that they are correct at some level, when they are never correct on any level

it's like this: if someone kills someone and someone else says "it's because of video games!" is that any reason for video game makers to change their content? no

why?

because to suppose that a video game is the reason for anyone, anywhere to commit murder is an invalid line of reasoning

even if someone plays GTA and then goes out of their way to kill a cop in the exact same scenario as a GTA scenario, it is STILL THE RESPONSIBILITY, 100%, OF THE ASSHOLE WHO COMMITTED THE CRIME

there is no valid logical line of reasoning that says the makers of GTA are culpable of anything

which is funny, because it is social conservatives who rail about personal responsibility so much, yet the same social conservatives who are attacking video game content right now

likewise, if someone does somethig here that gets them in trouble, and they say "look at what cts is doing" am i responsible for them acting a certain way? if they say the way i act is worse than the way they act, that's ok for them to say so- but on what basis are they saying that? what is their REASON for saying my behavior is worse than theres, and they are banned, and i am not? examine their line of reasoning, and i bet you wouldn't find anything you actually would agree with when they say my behavior is worse than theres

or maybe you would, suit yourself, it all depends upon their line of reasoning, but according to the principle of personal accountability, i can't understand a line of reasoning that would be compelling

it all comes down to personal responsibility: i am completely and always 100% responsible for what i say: if i type it here, if it comes out of my mouth (fingers), it is my responsibility

but, for the exact same reason, i am never, and could never be responsible for anything else anyone ever types, ever

do you get me now?

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Dude I didn't tell you to change your behaviour (none / 1) (#231)
by Lemon Juice on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 06:55:39 PM EST

I told you that is what your biggest threat is. When did I tell you to tone it down? It's like You are trolling me or something. only you are putting far more effort into it than I am.

[ Parent ]
well then let me rephrase (none / 0) (#232)
by circletimessquare on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 07:24:08 PM EST

i apologize if there is any miscommunication

here it is directly:

"I told you that is what your biggest threat is."

there is no threat to me of any validity coming from what you are talking about

nor should i concern myself about what you are talking about, because that might lend what you are talking about some validity

the only intellectually honest and responsible way to concern myself with what you are taking about is to completely deny its value


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

oh sure (none / 1) (#234)
by Lemon Juice on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 07:28:09 PM EST

like the admins wouldn't treat different people differently? even if they have simmilar behaviour.

what a ridiculous proposition.

you act as if an admins decision carries moral weight or something.

[ Parent ]

huh? (none / 0) (#268)
by circletimessquare on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 01:32:59 AM EST

i didn't say the admins carry moral authority

but you're saying they wouldn't act morally ;-P


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

i don't think i have global immunity (2.00 / 6) (#76)
by circletimessquare on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:37:24 PM EST

nor do i ever deserve that

i just worry that the boundary between colorful behavior and illegitimate behavior will be tightened, and the sanitization will begin

at which point, this website will die

it's not about me

it's about the fucking sheep who whine when somebody hurts their fucking pathetic feelings

they are children, they're whining is an illegitimate concern, but i worry about some asshole taking their concerns seriously

i give you credit, i think you are aware of this

it's just that i don't want to get an email saying "cts, tone down your language"

bullfuckingshit!

howabout someone else get an email saying: "grow a fucking backbone, this isn't your emotional support group, you fucking toddler"

the problem is that when it comes to building a healthy robust site, in my opinion, you can't err on the side of allowing too much possibly objectionable content, but you CAN err on the side of sanitizing things to much

there are people out there, not you guys, i give you credit, who believe a healthy society, social environment, website, whatever, is built on santization

unfortunately, these censorship motherfuckers never go away

you have been, i know, been receiving litany after litany of such complaints forever, and you always will be

i'm worried about the one day, when the one asshole admin says "hey, they have a point"

no, they fucking don't have a point!

one of the biggest hits this site had in the recent past was a story entitled "fuck natalee holloway" back in july

think about that

and then think about the sheep who would complain about decorum here

and now think what the health of this site, the hits it gets, its lifeblood, is married to: CONTROVERSY

i'm not talking to you guys per se, i'm pretty much talking to any patronizing, controlling assholes with a stick up there ass about "standards of behavior" who might be reading this right now

if any of you are reading this: SUCK MY FUCKING DICK YOU FUCKING PUD

your way of thinking leads to stagnation and death, not of this website, but in any social environment

just choke on my shit and die already you condescending controlling censoring motherfuckers


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

ahh the irony (3.00 / 2) (#152)
by QuantumG on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 12:43:48 AM EST

What you're describing is a slippery slope. I remember you arguing, just a few weeks ago, that a slippery slope is a fallacy.

Gun fire is the sound of freedom.
[ Parent ]
no slippery slope, it's binary (1.33 / 3) (#155)
by circletimessquare on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 01:40:45 AM EST

this is a slippery slope: "if they legalize marijuana, what next? legalize pedophilia?"

this is not a slippery slope: "if they legailze marijuana, what next, lots of marijuana smokers?"

this is a slippery slope: "if they legitimize fragile nitwits, what next? racists and nazis will be acceptable here?"

this is not a slippery slope: "if they legitimize fragile nitwits, what next, more nitwits?"

understand the difference?

fragile nitwit not taken seriously=0
fragile nitwit taken seriously=1

i am not arguing that binary state=1 results in a cascade effect

i am saying binary state=1 when achieved is bad enough, and i am arguing on that basis alone, no cause and effect after the achievement of that state need be analyzed to make my point

i.e., no slippery slope type argument applies in what i am saying

understand what a slippery slope is now?


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

specifically.. (none / 1) (#161)
by QuantumG on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 03:42:21 AM EST

we were arguing a few weeks ago about police being able to search people before they could board the trains in NYC. You said they were only searching 1 in 20.. I said that will soon become 1 in 10, and then they'll install metal detectors and bag scanners like they have in airports and it will be 1 in 1. By your definition I wasn't talking about a slippery slope "if they allow random searches what next, more random searches?" but you dismissed my argument as a slippery slope. So what is your definition of a slippery slope? Anything I suggest but you don't?

Gun fire is the sound of freedom.
[ Parent ]
i have to be honest with you (none / 1) (#163)
by circletimessquare on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 04:22:17 AM EST

i don't remember that conversation at all

are you sure you have the right guy?


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

gotta love google (2.50 / 2) (#165)
by QuantumG on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 04:34:06 AM EST

here ya go

Gun fire is the sound of freedom.
[ Parent ]
no wonder (none / 1) (#224)
by circletimessquare on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 04:50:07 PM EST

it's from the OTHER site

a slippery slope implies a cascade effect

that you open the floodgates, and boom, an unstoppable chain reaction occurs

are we on the same page about what a slippery slope is? in your previous comment above it doesn't seem you have the same definition as me

so please, by all means, correct me if my definition doesn't match yours, because you can't judge me if we aren't talking about the same thing and visa versa, correct?

so, this is what you are saying... again, correct me if i am wrong: if police officers are allowed to search random people on the subway, a slippery slope effect has started such that in a few years or month everyone will be searched all the time, in an unstoppable fashion

is this what you are honestly telling me?

please, i want to be asolutely clear about this

to me, you sound like a paranoid schizophrenic, but i'll allow you to pick apart what i just said before i lambast you completely for being such a hysterical child


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Ya know (2.50 / 2) (#235)
by QuantumG on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 07:55:06 PM EST

they used to search people randomly in airports too. Now we're all searched on entry (international and domestic) and exit (international). But no, my point was that you claim saying "if you start doing X you'll get more of X, and that would be bad" is not a slippery slope, and yet that is precisely what I was saying about people being searched in the subway. If you allow police to randomly search people as they board the train they will randomly search as many people as they can, and that will be bad. You're a hypocrite.

Gun fire is the sound of freedom.
[ Parent ]
uh... no (none / 1) (#267)
by circletimessquare on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 01:22:53 AM EST

If you allow police to randomly search people as they board the train they will randomly search as many people as they can

why? i don't understand why you think that way about the police. i don't think that would happen


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

colorful behavior, hahaha (none / 1) (#299)
by Fuzzwah on Fri Oct 21, 2005 at 02:22:16 AM EST

Nice self classification...

--
The best a human can do is to pick a delusion that helps him get through the day. - God's Debris
[ Parent ]

ok, new self-classification (none / 0) (#303)
by circletimessquare on Fri Oct 21, 2005 at 06:28:13 PM EST

i'm the guy who skull-fucked your dead mother last night

does that self-classification make you feel better you fuck?


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

have you ever thought about (2.50 / 2) (#62)
by SaintPort on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:03:16 PM EST

moderating your language yourself?

It is really hard to take you seriously. The more you  cap and curse, the less I think about your points. I'm not trying to dis' you. I'd like to have respect for your opinions.

<thinkaboutit><

--
Search the Scriptures
Start with some cheap grace...Got Life?

[ Parent ]

yhbt haiku, enjoy: (1.50 / 2) (#66)
by creativedissonance on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:14:27 PM EST

gullible kuron you have been trolled; you fail it ah, stupid loser


ay yo i run linux and word on the street
is that this is where i need to be to get my butt stuffed like a turkey - br14n
[ Parent ]
damn it, I failed the format. $ (3.00 / 2) (#67)
by creativedissonance on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:14:48 PM EST




ay yo i run linux and word on the street
is that this is where i need to be to get my butt stuffed like a turkey - br14n
[ Parent ]
maybe... (none / 1) (#77)
by SaintPort on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:39:47 PM EST

you could work in the word 'snow'?

--
Search the Scriptures
Start with some cheap grace...Got Life?

[ Parent ]
you're trying to respect me? (2.66 / 6) (#71)
by circletimessquare on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:23:38 PM EST

i don't want your respect, i don't want your accountability, i don't want to be your friend, i don't want to hold hands in the moonlight

i want to say what i fucking think when i fucking think it

do you understand me now?

why the fuck should any of what you just wrote have any meaning to me whatsover?

i don't WANT you to respect me

I DON'T FUCKING CARE ABOUT YOU

I DON'T WANT YOU TO CARE ABOUT ME

capisce asshole?

this isn't a fucking DATING site

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

just the same (3.00 / 3) (#80)
by SaintPort on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 06:01:32 PM EST

I love you.

<andYoucan'tMakeMeStop><

--
Search the Scriptures
Start with some cheap grace...Got Life?

[ Parent ]

i l.... (3.00 / 2) (#82)
by circletimessquare on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 06:08:55 PM EST

i loooo....

i luuuuurrrv...

I CAN'T FUCKING SAY IT!

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

thanks for trying <>< (3.00 / 2) (#83)
by SaintPort on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 06:13:22 PM EST



--
Search the Scriptures
Start with some cheap grace...Got Life?

[ Parent ]
Good. (3.00 / 3) (#146)
by The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 11:44:31 PM EST

Homosexuality is a sin.

___
I'm a pompous windbag, I take myself far too seriously, and I single-handedly messed up K5 by causing the fiction section to be created. --localroger

[ Parent ]
I just realized (none / 1) (#169)
by bml on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 05:47:55 AM EST

That <>< thing of yours is supposed to be a fish, right? Like the symbol christians used to identify each other in pre-Constantine Rome.

Anyway, I don't think teasing is a very christian thing to do. Think about it.

The Internet is vast, and contains many people. This is the way of things. -- Russell Dovey
[ Parent ]

who's teasing ? (none / 0) (#194)
by SaintPort on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 12:27:07 PM EST

oh, and here's a Jesus fish link...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthus

--
Search the Scriptures
Start with some cheap grace...Got Life?

[ Parent ]
give a man a fish (3.00 / 3) (#221)
by circletimessquare on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 04:28:34 PM EST

and he'll eat for a day

teach him how to fish, and he'll eat for a lifetime

show him a fish on teh internets, and you'll start a slaphappy religious flamewar


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Un-inhibition (3.00 / 2) (#160)
by Shimmer on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 02:53:33 AM EST

i want to say what i fucking think when i fucking think it
I'm all for letting your internal voice speak unedited, but is that what it really sounds like in your head all the time? Personally, I have a hard time believing it.

Wizard needs food badly.
[ Parent ]
in real life (2.66 / 3) (#162)
by circletimessquare on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 04:18:47 AM EST

i'm a boring mildly pleasant unimpressive dweeb

i only play sam kinison on teh internets

however, if i didn't have the internet as an outlet for my asocial behavior, i would slowly devolve into the screaming lunatic you see here, but in real life instead

that's not good, thus you see me ranting here, so i can be pleasant in real life, where it matters

it doesn't matter that i be pleasant here

k5 is my psychologist, my catharsis, my mental trash dumping ground

so here's my boot, there's your face, now fuck off


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

I see (2.33 / 3) (#195)
by Shimmer on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 12:28:19 PM EST

Thanks for the explanation. I will adjust my mental CTS filter accordingly.

P.S. Just had to get that dig in at the end, didn't you?

Wizard needs food badly.
[ Parent ]

MITTENS!!! (1.50 / 2) (#209)
by SoupIsGoodFood on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 01:59:25 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Now now cts (none / 1) (#81)
by stuaart on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 06:05:24 PM EST

Don't overstep yourself, laddie.

Linkwhore: [Hidden stories.] Baldrtainment: Corporate concubines and Baldrson: An Introspective


[ Parent ]
it's uncanny (3.00 / 2) (#87)
by the77x42 on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 07:23:15 PM EST

how you are the first person i thought of while reading the article.

but reporting abuse is far too extreme, since other people might get a kick out of your capital letters and malformed one-liners.

i would prefer to simply have the option to hide all your comments.


"We're not here to educate. We're here to point and laugh." - creature
"You have some pretty stupid ideas." - indubitable ‮

[ Parent ]

i agree wholeheatedly (none / 0) (#143)
by circletimessquare on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 11:21:28 PM EST

i'm an asshole, not a rapist

i only want to piss on people who want to be pissed on

if you don't want anything to do with me, please, be my guest, get the fuck away from me


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

CTS (2.80 / 5) (#95)
by awgsilyari on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 08:10:52 PM EST

It's not the abusive comments, offensive opinions, etc. which I object to. I come here to watch monkeys sling shit. At least it's pseudo-intellectual shit. It reminds me of college. Ah, the memories.

It's the shit-spamming, crap flooding, and abuse of the edit queue which interferes in a practical way with my ability to use the site that pisses me off. This has actually been reduced as of late. I also think such a system is unwarranted but simply because it's useless, not because it'll ruin everything.

What sort of anonymization-worthy activities have been going on here, anyway? I haven't seen any.

--------
Please direct SPAM to john@neuralnw.com
[ Parent ]

Enough, apparently (none / 0) (#145)
by The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 11:43:17 PM EST

People are still being anonymized

___
I'm a pompous windbag, I take myself far too seriously, and I single-handedly messed up K5 by causing the fiction section to be created. --localroger

[ Parent ]
IAWCTS (3.00 / 2) (#191)
by frijolito on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 12:06:46 PM EST

Even I can see that this could be the fabled K5-killing feature.. and I'm the most naïve, least-trolling kuron I know.

Learning to deal with trollish behavior here has (through a process I didn't even notice) helped me identify such behavior in RL, effectively improving my quality of life ... since my new, improved filtering skillz allow me to just ignore stupid motherfuckers.

Plus, sometimes trolls are funny. Mostly they fail it, though. Too many are trying their hand at it atm, but only a few could be considered actually witty, or even interesting.

[ Parent ]

sanitize the site... (3.00 / 7) (#63)
by creativedissonance on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:03:33 PM EST

...and watch it turn into husi. I've been logging into that dullsville for a few weeks now and there is -nothing- in the edit queue. Sure, our queue gets nullospammed and legit articles get flamed now and then, but its a hell of a lot better than stagnation fueled by the only people being able to login being the fkn goody-two-shoeses...


ay yo i run linux and word on the street
is that this is where i need to be to get my butt stuffed like a turkey - br14n
the husi edit queue (3.00 / 2) (#84)
by aphrael on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 07:04:41 PM EST

is by consensus not supposed to be used. that has nothing to do with the civility or lack thereof of the discourse.

[ Parent ]
huh? (none / 0) (#85)
by creativedissonance on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 07:18:54 PM EST

how do things get posted to the FP then? I'm not a huge husi fanboy so I don't get it. do people vote up diaries or something?


ay yo i run linux and word on the street
is that this is where i need to be to get my butt stuffed like a turkey - br14n
[ Parent ]
yes. (3.00 / 5) (#96)
by aphrael on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 08:25:19 PM EST

diaries have a 'vote this to the front page' thingy.

[ Parent ]
That just ain't right. /nt (none / 0) (#193)
by Ignore Amos on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 12:25:40 PM EST


And that explains why airplanes carry cargo on small boats floating in their cargo aquarium. - jmzero
[ Parent ]

IAWTP - husi's methodology sux0rs $ (none / 0) (#214)
by creativedissonance on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 02:49:03 PM EST




ay yo i run linux and word on the street
is that this is where i need to be to get my butt stuffed like a turkey - br14n
[ Parent ]
I for one (2.40 / 5) (#64)
by SaintPort on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:04:40 PM EST

welcome our new warning and abuse reporting system overlord.

<YMMV><

--
Search the Scriptures
Start with some cheap grace...Got Life?

You welcome the reporting of abuse? (3.00 / 4) (#144)
by The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 11:42:13 PM EST

Wouldn't it be more Christian to turn the other cheek?

___
I'm a pompous windbag, I take myself far too seriously, and I single-handedly messed up K5 by causing the fiction section to be created. --localroger

[ Parent ]
Turning the other cheek is a special witness (none / 0) (#218)
by SaintPort on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 03:58:29 PM EST

when someone attacks me because of my faith, it glorifies God when I return good for evil.

On the other hand, on a social level, we have to pursue righteousness... if I have something against someone, after trying to retore them myself, if that fails, I should take them before the council... in this case, the admins. We cannot just turn a blind eye to lawlessness and abusive behavior.

There's a reason the Bible is thick. Life is complicated.

--
Search the Scriptures
Start with some cheap grace...Got Life?

[ Parent ]

The link to Appropriate Use Guide is Broken (3.00 / 4) (#70)
by tdillo on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 05:17:42 PM EST

I clicked on

Report Abuse: Please read the appropriate use guidelines before reporting abuse.

and it says "I'm sorry. I couldn't find that page."

What does that mean?



It means the irony meter has been pegged good. /nt (3.00 / 7) (#116)
by ksandstr on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 09:55:48 PM EST



[ Parent ]
It means exactly what it says. (3.00 / 6) (#166)
by BJH on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 04:36:28 AM EST

There's no such thing as "appropriate use" of k5.

Kinda like heroin or crack, I guess. Or maybe child pr0n.
--
Roses are red, violets are blue.
I'm schizophrenic, and so am I.
-- Oscar Levant

[ Parent ]

Brazilian cigarretes warning (none / 0) (#219)
by nkyad on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 03:59:40 PM EST

In some packages they list some of the substances in a cigarrete and end up warning: "There are no safe levels for the consumption of these substances".

Don't believe in anything you can't see, smell, touch or at the very least infer from a good particle accelerator run


[ Parent ]
If the admins are going to moderate everything... (3.00 / 2) (#86)
by Ibuprofen on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 07:19:59 PM EST

...why even let users have the ability to moderate things? Remove the moderation abilities of users, and let us all welcome our k5 overlords.

I'm sure people are just going to give fake reasoning, or shallow reasoning... and if it's argued with, they'll just ignore it. I doubt this makes any difference at all... but thanks for trying, really.

admins don't moderate anything. (none / 0) (#101)
by aphrael on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 08:27:27 PM EST

but there are times when they have to play playground monitor.

[ Parent ]
Deleting people is equal to moderation. (3.00 / 3) (#102)
by Ibuprofen on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 08:40:09 PM EST

I don't see how you can disagree.

[ Parent ]
This is the part.. (2.50 / 4) (#89)
by sudog on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 07:55:36 PM EST

... where you let us search through comment ratings of other users again. I click on "Comment ratings by this user" and it just shows me his comments.

Doh!


Several things are missing from the new user page (none / 1) (#90)
by localroger on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 07:59:28 PM EST

Diaries By is missing, the public e-mail address is missing, the PGP key is missing (which I was using as a message to direct people to my archived stories), and there doesn't seem to be a way to the old user info page that just had those bits of info and not the recent comments.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]
Huh?! (3.00 / 3) (#91)
by awgsilyari on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 08:00:41 PM EST

I got bored at work one day last month and wrote the final interface bits.

So certain parts of Kuro5hin are now owned by your employer? That's nice.

--------
Please direct SPAM to john@neuralnw.com

I don't think you understand janra's situation. (none / 0) (#100)
by aphrael on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 08:26:56 PM EST



[ Parent ]
nah (none / 0) (#149)
by janra on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 12:04:39 AM EST

I'm not a programmer by trade and my employer only claims ownership of my ideas for process improvement of their plant.

As long as the plant runs smoothly I can spend my time as I will. Some of the other guys watch movies, read, or sleep; I write or program.
--
Discuss the art and craft of writing
That's the problem with world domination... Nobody is willing to wait for it anymore, work slowly towards it, drink more and enjoy the ride more.
[ Parent ]

Ahh. (none / 0) (#225)
by awgsilyari on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 05:03:05 PM EST

A programmer who does something else for a living. I salute you, then.

--------
Please direct SPAM to john@neuralnw.com
[ Parent ]
Also, this won't work. (none / 1) (#92)
by awgsilyari on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 08:02:14 PM EST

However, insisting that people email us to register complaints isn't very effective, and relying on hidden comments is a strategy easily defeated by circles of mutually annoying users. So we have implemented an abuse reporting system, in which you can report misbehaviour directly to the admins.

You are going to be inundated by crap, false reports, unwarranted reports, generally enough garbage to make this system worthless. Welcome to K5.

--------
Please direct SPAM to john@neuralnw.com

it's not so bad. (none / 1) (#98)
by aphrael on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 08:26:14 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Awesome (none / 1) (#93)
by regeya on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 08:04:39 PM EST

hope it works; then maybe kuro5hin.org can finally get back to being 'technology and culture, from the trenches'

[ yokelpunk | kuro5hin diary ]

I might even start posting again (none / 0) (#107)
by debacle on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 09:19:06 PM EST

Heaven forbid.

It tastes sweet.
[ Parent ]
i find this whole thing very strainge (3.00 / 2) (#94)
by wampswillion on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 08:10:41 PM EST

it reminds me of the time my 4 year old niece called my 2 year old niece (her sister) an "ebil-doer"  (which their dad had "tongue-in-cheek" called one of them one day.)   because she'd gotten into some candy that the 4 year old didn't think they ought to have been in.

 the interesting thing is that 4 year old didn't have to TELL 2 year old what she'd done.  2 year old knew exactly what 4 year old was referring to and she quickly ran to put it back.  

my POINT being that rusty?  i don't think you should worry about if people don't claim to know WHY they've been A'd.   More than likely they do know why.

  and they were either testing their limits or your limits for fun or really honestly didn't think you were watching or would do anything about it.  

and as for being a democracy?   rusty, this IS a wonderful site- i LOVE that people can and WILL say almost anything on here.  but rusty, it's YOUR SITE. and it's not really a democracy.  if it were a democracy then we'd have voted on you to lead us in the first place, wouldn't we? and well i haven't been here since the dawn of kuro5hin-time or anything but i'm pretty sure you just created this in the first place.  and so it's your court and your rules?  don't you think?
 you don't want something on here, then why shouldn't you have the right to take something off?  whatever that is.  

and really?  what's more "big brother" like than the watching of people all the time??  how many cameras you guys got?  that you can do all that watching all the time?  so i say "fine" to the report system but hmm to all the rest of it.  


there's more too it than that. (none / 1) (#97)
by aphrael on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 08:26:00 PM EST

there is behavior which treads perilously close to the line without crossing over. warnings provide us with a mechanism to say "hey! watch it!"

[ Parent ]
yes but (none / 1) (#103)
by wampswillion on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 08:49:05 PM EST

don't you think they already know how perilously close to the line they are?  what good is "watch it"  going to do?   "watch it" then creates an even bigger game for them, don't you think?

trust me, i know this-  i work with adolescents a lot.  and well frankly, quite a lot of this is pretty much adolescent "look at me" behavior.  

hey, did you notice i spelled strange with an i?  i liked that. i think i'll continue with that.  strainge days indeed.  

[ Parent ]

different people also have different lines. (3.00 / 2) (#117)
by Lemon Juice on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 09:57:08 PM EST

Some people think profanity is crossing the line as an example. It is important for the line to be clear and visible.

[ Parent ]
so you want rules? (none / 0) (#131)
by wampswillion on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 10:36:26 PM EST

well ok.  how about "do unto others as you would have them do unto you?"  
that's the golden rule.  
geez, didn't any of you guys have mama's?

[ Parent ]
that rule doesn't work here. (3.00 / 2) (#133)
by Lemon Juice on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 10:45:57 PM EST

some people like to be very abusive and wouldn't mind others being the same. but the moderators don't want that there. Or take PoopyPeanutz, who did he hurt and how? and would he mind if the same was done to him? Probably not.

You seem to be under the impression that everyone has the same expectations of behaviour. Even if everyone follows the golden rule there will be problems because different people want different things.

[ Parent ]

i was suggesting that (none / 0) (#241)
by wampswillion on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 09:22:46 PM EST

rusty go by the golden rule, not you guys. you people are hopeless. i was thinking if rusty felt like something was just to do if he were the person involved (the offensive troll) then it might ease his mind about what he was doing if he felt he had to banish someone.

[ Parent ]
explain why you don't vote on this site. (none / 0) (#248)
by Lemon Juice on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 09:43:37 PM EST

Is it because of your age? Do you vote for anything at all? I could understand it if you didn't believe in voting on principle, but I'm not sure you do.

[ Parent ]
i vote (none / 0) (#249)
by wampswillion on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 09:47:01 PM EST

in elections yes, if that is what you are asking. i don't vote here because i don't really feel that i belong here. i sort of like it here but i don't really belong here, i guess. you know? like people from other countries are not allowed to vote in our elections, i don't feel like i should have a right to vote here. i do feel like i can make comments tho. but just not vote.

[ Parent ]
So you want to maintain distance between us. (none / 0) (#254)
by Lemon Juice on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 10:30:22 PM EST

I see. It is your choice to belong here.

[ Parent ]
no it's not that (none / 0) (#257)
by wampswillion on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 11:01:18 PM EST

probably it's just that there is only one place i feel i truly belong except that i'm not welcome there. and well? so i'm kinda feel like a ghost everywhere else. however this place makes me laugh more than most other places i haunt do.

[ Parent ]
Well (none / 0) (#256)
by Grayworld on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 10:37:37 PM EST

You and tweetsygalore belong here as much as anyone.


Fair but a bit unbalanced to be sure!
[ Parent ]

so how many (none / 0) (#258)
by wampswillion on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 11:02:22 PM EST

women (real ones- not trollettes) are on here do you think?

[ Parent ]
You, Tweetsy, Holly Hop (none / 0) (#259)
by Grayworld on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 11:18:29 PM EST

seem like the only sure bets.

I think!


Fair but a bit unbalanced to be sure!
[ Parent ]

so let me ask you this (none / 1) (#260)
by wampswillion on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 11:38:02 PM EST

do you see any commonalities between the three of us besides our gender?

[ Parent ]
Yes (3.00 / 2) (#262)
by Grayworld on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 12:23:47 AM EST

You all refuse to be driven off! That's a good thing!


Fair but a bit unbalanced to be sure!
[ Parent ]

aw shucks (none / 0) (#288)
by wampswillion on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 07:35:22 PM EST

now we're blushing.

[ Parent ]
Others have different values [text] (none / 0) (#135)
by bamcquern on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 10:54:15 PM EST

A lot of troll behavior is just highly ironic, reflexive, and posed. It's also frequently very funny. I wouldn't mind being its target in many cases. It's almost shameful, to be a troll sympathizer.

[ Parent ]
well but see (none / 0) (#243)
by wampswillion on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 09:27:39 PM EST

actually i think the trolls are very very funny.  i laugh quite often at all of it that goes on here.  
but everyone does have their personal limits about what they can handle or tolerate (for instance if this were my site i'd allow nothing that jokes about pedophilia and such)   and well, all i'm saying is that rusty as "owner" of the site should be allowed his personal limits as well.  
as i explained in the other answer to this post, if you want rusty to lay down rules, i was suggesting that he lay down one rule for himself that would cover practically everything- and that is "do unto others as you'd have them do unto you."  meaning feel free to be as harsh or as lenient as you would be with yourself if you committed the offense.  

[ Parent ]
Head up your ass much? (2.00 / 6) (#106)
by debacle on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 09:18:45 PM EST

The site is mostly a democracy because that's what Rusty wants it to be. If he wanted it to be totalitarian, it would be totalitarian. Frankly I don't think the guy really wants to spend that amount of time doing it.

We are ants in his ant farm, and nothing more.

It tastes sweet.
[ Parent ]

you think? (none / 0) (#114)
by wampswillion on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 09:46:41 PM EST

he puts less time into it being a democracy than he would be putting into it being a totalitarian state? good grief.

[ Parent ]
I don't even know what you're asking (none / 1) (#115)
by debacle on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 09:54:33 PM EST

So yes.

It tastes sweet.
[ Parent ]
i'm not asking (none / 0) (#130)
by wampswillion on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 10:33:15 PM EST

anything. i was just replying that it was silly to think that it would be less time-intensive to run a democracy than it would to run a totalitarian state.

[ Parent ]
k5 isn't a state. (none / 0) (#289)
by cburke on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 07:42:54 PM EST

It's a discussion website.  Here, Democracy == the users do all the work.  Stories get posted and rusty doesn't have to do a thing.  Doing nothing is easier than doing something, and being "totalitarian" would mean doing something.

It's really not so much a democracy as just a system which requires no actual interference.  

[ Parent ]

oh (none / 1) (#307)
by wampswillion on Sat Oct 22, 2005 at 01:50:18 AM EST

i see.  so tell me again?  what are we discussing?

[ Parent ]
wampswillion was drunk when she wrote this. $ (1.00 / 3) (#190)
by Lemon Juice on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 12:05:27 PM EST



[ Parent ]
wampswillion (none / 0) (#245)
by wampswillion on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 09:31:11 PM EST

was NOT.

[ Parent ]
really? (none / 0) (#246)
by Lemon Juice on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 09:37:48 PM EST

I could have sworn you were.

[ Parent ]
no that (none / 0) (#247)
by wampswillion on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 09:42:53 PM EST

was sat night and fri night that i was drunk. perhaps i still had a hangover tho.

[ Parent ]
BUG REPORT (3.00 / 4) (#109)
by Michael Moore IV on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 09:22:08 PM EST

I was "warned" for posting this comment:

http://www.kuro5hin.org/comments/2005/10/17/42012/395/2#2

however due to my temporary anonymisation, I was unable to actually view it before checking the box and accepting the warning. I imagine this is the result of the comment being editorial, but the same bug will also apply to almost certainly to comment that are hidden (below 1.0 rating) or in the edit queue, thanks to the reduced permissions that anonymised users have. At the very least, temporarily anonymised users have to have their privileges raised so that they can view <0 comments and editorial comments and comments on the story queue, simply so they can review the threads they're referred to before accepting the warning.

I can see why... (none / 0) (#172)
by toychicken on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 06:29:42 AM EST

There are many pedantic trolls out there who are just dying to pick you up on grammar. I for one couldn't care less if you forgot the apostrophe in "it's" and think that a warning was probably a little harsh.

- - - - - - -8<- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Just how many is a Brazillian anyway?


[ Parent ]
Note however (3.00 / 4) (#111)
by Michael Moore IV on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 09:25:39 PM EST

that I don't see how http://www.kuro5hin.org/comments/2005/10/17/42012/395/2#2 justifies a warning in any way. The guy's desperately asking K5 to make major decisions about his life for him. How can you be happy when you depend on others to do things like that for you? He needed to be reminded that it's his fucking life. Ultimately it all comes down to him. Is this somehow offensive or insulting? I don't understand.

Not offensive or insulting, but _inflammatory_ (1.75 / 4) (#189)
by frijolito on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 11:35:59 AM EST

(i'm the guy)

I meant to respond to the comment you mention, but then it got hidden (note that I never zeroed it) and I just didn't feel like fudging around with the settings to see one hidden comment.

I think the point is, people felt you were trolling. I mean, with a username like yours everyone's gonna set their troll filter on 'high' whenever they read something you write. You know that.

I mean, it's like you can't even write prose without being inflammatory. Take the above comment, for example. Did I sound "desperate" in any way? Was I asking people to make a "major life decision" for me? I don't think so, dude.

I was asking for advice. I'm currently considering a few cities for emmigration, and I thought that it would be a great idea if people on the field told me what their city was like. Or that it would be a good idea to listen to people who've done the same already. Evidently many other kurons thought it was a good idea, since I did get a lot of relevant advice, something I'm very grateful for.

And dude, I don't need to be reminded that it's my fucking life. I know it is. And I'll do whatever I want with it, including asking advice from anonymous strangers; but note that I chose strangers who have proven helpful and knowledgeable in the past. If you want to remind me or anyone, go ahead, but trust me, it's not necessary.

Basically, I'm not buying your faux-sincerity here. You claim not to understand how people would consider it rude to tell someone who asks for their advice to "do what you want, it's your fucking life". But you know it is rude. Would you tell that to someone's face if they come to ask you for advice? You've heard the quote, 'never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity'; however in this case I'm going to go ahead and risk flattering you by telling you that I think there's more malice than stupidity in your attitude.

Consider your troll, bitten.

[ Parent ]

you're fucking hyper-sensitive or some shit, man (2.00 / 5) (#238)
by Michael Moore IV on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 09:09:13 PM EST

i would absolutely say that to someone who asked me for advice if i thought it was warranted, and in your case it was.

[ Parent ]
have you even read a dictionary?! (3.00 / 3) (#266)
by geekmug on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 01:17:53 AM EST

There is nothing inflammatory at all about someone telling you "it's your life, do what you want." If anything that is an empowering remark.

It's this kind of nonsense that will make the abuse system totally worthless. Every comment that doesn't meet some chode's standards like this will end up getting warned and there'll be no one left by the end of it all.

If you think someone's reply is inappropriate, you moderate it.

-- Why reinvent the square wheel?
[ Parent ]
OK (none / 0) (#306)
by frijolito on Fri Oct 21, 2005 at 10:06:30 PM EST



[ Parent ]
It can be inflammatory (none / 0) (#320)
by Gallowglass on Mon Oct 31, 2005 at 03:20:43 PM EST

If you insert curse words in your statement, then yes, you could be considered inflammatory.

For example, "It's your life, do what you want."  That's fine, and sure, it can be considered empowering.

However, "It's your fucking life, do what you fucking want." could be considereed inflammatory.  Curse words usually denote hostility and/or anger.

[ Parent ]

This is a bit better than before (2.00 / 3) (#126)
by Lemon Juice on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 10:23:36 PM EST

But it all depends on the admins. The fair admins will be fair, and the unfair unfair. Perhaps if permanant anonymizations could be approved by more than 1 admin it would be better, but the strongest chain is only as strong as the weakest link. Also I have noticed that some anonymizations in the past have only lasted a little while. Are anonymizations permanant or do they have a duration? I think giving users a time out and showing how long it will last might be more effective than simply anonymizing. The reason being that the account has value to the person and they will be carefull with their behaviour after their timeout.

Hmm. (none / 0) (#164)
by BJH on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 04:33:44 AM EST

The reason being that the account has value to the person...

HAHAHAHA, yeah right. I guess NIWS really valued his 60,000th sockpuppet, eh?
--
Roses are red, violets are blue.
I'm schizophrenic, and so am I.
-- Oscar Levant

[ Parent ]

it wont always work. (none / 0) (#186)
by Lemon Juice on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 11:26:34 AM EST

but people do value their accounts.

[ Parent ]
IS IT OK TO WARN THIS GUY??? (2.25 / 4) (#128)
by Michael Moore IV on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 10:29:49 PM EST



Hey comment ratings are actually usefull. (none / 0) (#138)
by Lemon Juice on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 10:57:15 PM EST

they stop spam.

[ Parent ]
Do you know how a good thief defeats an alarm? (2.85 / 7) (#140)
by skyknight on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 10:59:47 PM EST

It's easy. He just keeps on setting it off until the operator turns it off so that he can finally get some sleep. Want to steal a car that is alarmed? Just set the thing off every fifteen minutes on a Sunday night until the owner's neighbors are all threatening to murder him. Then, when it's off, go and steal it at your leisure in complete silence.

How is this abuse reporting system going to be any better? In the software design process, it's not good enough to just think of the use cases. You also have to ponder the abuse cases. Sadly, I would wager that this wasn't done for this new K5 feature. If anything, you have just added a new jungle gym to the troll playground. Put on your helmets, because this is going to be a real kick in the head. :-/



It's not much fun at the top. I envy the common people, their hearty meals and Bruce Springsteen and voting. --SIGNOR SPAGHETTI
well said nt (none / 0) (#150)
by circletimessquare on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 12:11:39 AM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
Bruce Schneier wrote a whole book about this... (none / 0) (#156)
by pHatidic on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 01:45:20 AM EST

You are right, of course, but at least it moves the abuse to the backend where it is invisible for the users.

[ Parent ]
But (3.00 / 2) (#167)
by bml on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 04:47:07 AM EST

in this case triggering the alarm is not amomymous (I suppose). Well, at least it is associated to a username. If you use a dupe to abuse the system you will soon be anonymized, and you will have to create another account etc. So it is not free.

And it is not visible, so the regular trolls out there will not have much of an incentive to spam it.

The Internet is vast, and contains many people. This is the way of things. -- Russell Dovey
[ Parent ]

I'm not sure that that's true... (none / 1) (#240)
by skyknight on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 09:21:38 PM EST

It may be the case that they won't get the same kind of instant gratification, but they can still get a fair amount all the same.

It's not much fun at the top. I envy the common people, their hearty meals and Bruce Springsteen and voting. --SIGNOR SPAGHETTI
[ Parent ]
+1 FP (3.00 / 2) (#159)
by creativedissonance on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 02:46:35 AM EST

this article has provoked some of the best discussion and flamewars in a LONG TIME. keep it up!


ay yo i run linux and word on the street
is that this is where i need to be to get my butt stuffed like a turkey - br14n
Umm ... it's already on the Front Page. /nt (none / 0) (#192)
by Ignore Amos on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 12:13:38 PM EST


And that explains why airplanes carry cargo on small boats floating in their cargo aquarium. - jmzero
[ Parent ]

OMG SO TRUE U GET BISCUIT $ (3.00 / 2) (#210)
by creativedissonance on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 01:59:56 PM EST




ay yo i run linux and word on the street
is that this is where i need to be to get my butt stuffed like a turkey - br14n
[ Parent ]
I just filed my first "abuse report"... (1.80 / 5) (#168)
by codebunny on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 05:37:40 AM EST

Against this spamming fuck. His comments have been polluting my stories for a few weeks now. I figured the admins would be more dilligent about removing them, but I guess they can't be everywhere...

The "report abuse" system can be useful for stuff like this, but I'm sure there will be some fragile egos who will get their panties in a twist whenever someone challenges them. C'est la vie.

As for the warning system...I think it's a step in the right direction. Of course it all comes down to how it's implemented, but done right it could improve the site. I think everyone gets paranoid about where "The Line" to be crossed is. This will give everyone a better idea.

Just please, do not make The Line overly stringent. K5 should be kept both profane and profound. Otherwise, watch this site devolve into Husi-esque faggotry.

"The written equivalent of goatse or Tubgirl...you deserve to get hauled into a court of law and at least fined until you can't afford Internet access any more." --HitlerHopDrive


EXCUSE ME SIR (3.00 / 6) (#184)
by The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 10:37:17 AM EST

I AM OFFENDED BY YOUR USE OF THE WORD "HUSI", AND AS SUCH WILL BE FILING AN ABUSE REPORT POSTHASTE.

YOURS IN CHRIST,
THE VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY

___
I'm a pompous windbag, I take myself far too seriously, and I single-handedly messed up K5 by causing the fiction section to be created. --localroger

[ Parent ]
I must warn you... (3.00 / 4) (#213)
by creativedissonance on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 02:46:50 PM EST

...that your excessive use of caps has forced me to file an abuse report against you as well. Fear not, however, as I have also filed an abuse report against rusty for having implemented the feature to begin with.


ay yo i run linux and word on the street
is that this is where i need to be to get my butt stuffed like a turkey - br14n
[ Parent ]
An idea (2.44 / 9) (#174)
by United Fools on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 07:24:12 AM EST

how about making all the abuse reports public, so we can vote on them... only these with scores above a threshold shall be processed...
We are united, we are fools, and we are America!
An improvement on that idea (none / 0) (#321)
by el sjaako on Tue Nov 01, 2005 at 07:05:42 AM EST

I think it would take ages to ban posts ten. But then again, maybe it would be a good idea to first ban (by an admin, of course), and the let the community vote to get it back. That way, post that should be removed will be quickly removed, but post that shouldn't be removed come back.
The only problem you could have is that this isn't incredebly fair if you don't trust the admins, in which case it's guilty until proven innocent. If you do trust them it's innocent until shown to be guilty, unless then they are then shown to be innocent.

[ Parent ]
Incidentaly, while we're adding 'features' (2.77 / 9) (#185)
by The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 10:39:28 AM EST

How about adding something useful, like instead of just deleting comments by fully anonymized users, replacing them with a placeholder comment, "This comment has been removed."

It would be nice to avoid the single-person threads and discontinuity.

___
I'm a pompous windbag, I take myself far too seriously, and I single-handedly messed up K5 by causing the fiction section to be created. --localroger

that's on the ToDo list (none / 0) (#284)
by MstlyHrmls on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 04:29:05 PM EST

this feature has already been added to the main Scoop codebase, so as soon as k5 gets updated again...

(Which is going to happen Real Soon Now, right rusty?)

-mh
--
"That's right," shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
[ Parent ]

Great. (2.90 / 11) (#202)
by Pxtl on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 01:09:53 PM EST

Now all you need are users and content.

LOL - good one$ (none / 0) (#212)
by Shimmer on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 02:14:18 PM EST



Wizard needs food badly.
[ Parent ]
Just which acts of "abuse" prompted all (2.50 / 6) (#217)
by Sesquipundalian on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 03:32:20 PM EST

of this coding? How long do you think it will take before this "investment" pays off? You say that some users pose a problem.. Is this because they are expressing opinions that you do not like?

It seems to me that about the only thing you can do on this site is express opinions. Comments that exploit formatting bugs in scoop get ixnayed pretty quickly, as with comments that have no declarative content in them (pages of blank lines for example).

I have made 4 comments (so far) that got hidden. One was a comment about one of the (inumerable) Guatanamo Bay scandals, one was about the heritabillity of characteristics like strength and intelligence (that one actually generated a pretty good discussion), one was about Rusty's wife, and one was about slutty women. In all 4 cases I was censored for expressing views that ran counter to the political norms of the site. I don't ever intend to change my commenting style, and if this attitude costs me my membership, all I have to say is good riddance.

My main question is why? Who's membership are we courting? Why do we care so much if these fragile egos join this site? Why not have a site where people post what they really think, rather than a bunch of rules that people will just play games with?


Did you know that gullible is not actually an english word?
the majority of the coding work (none / 0) (#229)
by aphrael on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 06:05:48 PM EST

was done over a year ago. what was left was implementable in scoop boxes.

[ Parent ]
In case you haven't noticed... (none / 1) (#233)
by NoMoreNicksLeft on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 07:26:38 PM EST

The opinions that tend to get people in trouble aren't "Dubya is an asshole and should be impeached".

They aren't even "Rusty is an asshole, and he needs to fix k5".

They're more likely to be something like "L0ll3rzkat3s RUSTY is a douche-eater and keeps anonimynating me" as a content-less, title-only story spamming the queue. It's not a protest, it's not an opinion. It's the ugliest kind of grafitti spray-painted on a public monument by grammar-ignorant lowlifes.

--
Do not look directly into laser with remaining good eye.
[ Parent ]

wrong (none / 1) (#239)
by Michael Moore IV on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 09:11:01 PM EST

that is a myth. the majority of anonymisations are essentially groundless and based on personality conflicts between the editors and certain users. in other words, when a certain editor doesn't like you, that editor routinely anonymises you as part of said grudge.

[ Parent ]
IAWTP (none / 1) (#251)
by Ibuprofen on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 10:02:43 PM EST

Power corrupts all, especially the already corrupt.

[ Parent ]
Oddly enough, I have never had this problem. (none / 0) (#252)
by localroger on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 10:15:52 PM EST

Despite having posted some really inflammatory things on occasion, and being a troll magnet of Tesla proportions, and at least one of the particular admins who pisses you off the most (pwhysall) telling me direct I more or less gamed the system to get what he thought were inferior stories put to FP, I have never felt in danger of being anonymized. Do you suppose there might be a reason for that, hmmmmmm?

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]
because you're a girly-man and a tool. (none / 1) (#253)
by Michael Moore IV on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 10:21:03 PM EST

seriously, if you think you're even close to the average troll in anonymisability you're fucking deluding yourself.

[ Parent ]
I'm not into anonymisability (none / 0) (#261)
by localroger on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 11:38:39 PM EST

or however you spell it. I'm into having people read what I write. There are many ways to try to get people to read what you write; some work and are self-destructive, some work and are hard, and the rest don't work. Figure it out.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]
what are you talking about? (2.33 / 3) (#264)
by Michael Moore IV on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 12:40:28 AM EST

you claim to be some badass that is hated by the administration--you're not.

[ Parent ]
This is what I'm talking about: (none / 1) (#279)
by localroger on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 01:59:41 PM EST

you claim to be some badass that is hated by the administration--you're not.

I don't claim to be a badass or hated by the administration. I don't consider it a mark of honor or pride that I might manage to piss someone off so much that they would kick me off their website. And because I act accordingly, I tend not to have a problem getting kicked off of websites. It really isn't that hard to just not be an asshole; it frequently puzzles me why so many people seem to think it's the height of fashion.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]

oh so your gay little rant about how you (3.00 / 2) (#290)
by Michael Moore IV on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 07:48:08 PM EST

'post inflammatory things' and how pwhysall gasp HATES YOU was just a totally little aside then? please. if you have something coherent to say in this thread maybe you can try that in future, rather than jumping about from topic to topic and pretending you're somehow building an argument here.

[ Parent ]
Next time try quoting what I actually said (2.33 / 3) (#293)
by localroger on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 08:35:38 PM EST

'post inflammatory things'

You left out the word "occasionally," which is a rather important part of the context.

how pwhysall gasp HATES YOU

I didn't say he hates me. He has said that hates certain classes of things that I write, including generally all fiction. But he has also said he likes certain other things, such as the casino story and others that resemble it.

The bottom line, which is really very simple, is that when I do something that an admin doesn't like -- and that does happen with some regularity -- they don't automatically reach for the "anonymize" button, and I don't worry about them reaching for it. And that's because I am not CONSTANTLY IN THEIR FACES ACTING LIKE AN ASSHOLE. And that, sir, is why you have a roman numeral at the end of your username and I don't.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]

in other words (1.75 / 4) (#294)
by Michael Moore IV on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 08:46:13 PM EST

you are a girly-man and a tool, correct?

[ Parent ]
ror u r teh guy (1.66 / 3) (#300)
by localroger on Fri Oct 21, 2005 at 08:40:22 AM EST

You know your next nick will be so much more stylish without that I to mess up the clean lines of the V.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
[ Parent ]
Don't mess with the V. $ (none / 0) (#309)
by V on Sat Oct 22, 2005 at 07:08:31 PM EST


---
What my fans are saying:
"That, and the fact that V is a total, utter scumbag." VZAMaZ.
"well look up little troll" cts.
"I think you're a worthless little cuntmonkey but you made me lol, so I sigged you." re
"goodness gracious you're an idiot" mariahkillschickens
[ Parent ]
A reconciliation 3 weeks in the making. (none / 0) (#326)
by OzJuggler on Sat Nov 12, 2005 at 08:06:57 PM EST

Maybe what he was getting at was that you have no problems with the authorities if you comply with their standards of behaviour, but that in his opinion members of kuro5hin should not have to engage in such supplication.

I think you and I both know there's probably twenty other websites out there that he could join if this one is too constrictive. The mistake is in thinking that exactly the same rules of real society apply to web sites when the costs and benefits of each are leagues apart. ie- Changin' countries `aint like joinin' blog forums, baby.

There's also the possibility that people like him desire notoriety and would simply escalate to higher levels of audacious behaviour if they ever joined a web site with a less constrictive editorial policy.

OzJuggler
"And I will not rest until every year families gather to spend December 25th together
at Osama's homo abortion pot and commie jizzporium." - Jon Stewart's gift to Bill O'Reilly, 7 Dec 2005.
[ Parent ]

Oddly enough, I have never had this problem. (none / 0) (#269)
by ubernostrum on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 05:19:27 AM EST

And I make a point of regularly harassing and insulting pwhysall, the Nazi editor par excellence.




--
You cooin' with my bird?
[ Parent ]
thats no good (none / 1) (#272)
by Michael Moore IV on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 05:30:18 AM EST

you need to insult people pwhysall holds dear to his heart instead. i dunno, the president of nambla or something.

[ Parent ]
Actually. (none / 0) (#277)
by NoMoreNicksLeft on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 12:44:16 PM EST

I've spoken somewhat at length with Jason. There's nothing redeeming about his personality or conversation. At his best, he is ignorable. His best is so rare, maybe I'm imagining it.

Whether or not it was originally groundless is moot. It's like arguing about who "started it" in the balkans or midle east.

Apparently there are others who are maybe less deserving of this "stomp on the goddamned cockroach already!" approach. But what can I say? We can hardly have public oversight of it... a box on the front page with "these accounts have been anonymized" just gives the worthless little fuckstains the attention they seek.

--
Do not look directly into laser with remaining good eye.
[ Parent ]

nice job of blind, ignorant stereotyping there (none / 1) (#291)
by Michael Moore IV on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 07:50:01 PM EST

do you actually know anything that hasnt been brainwashed into you by 'anti-troll' crusaders like localroger and their retarded proaganda?

[ Parent ]
God it is michael moore (none / 0) (#280)
by dilaudid on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 02:43:50 PM EST

Whine whine whine... The people in control are all crazy... They're following a complex agenda to victimise me...

[ Parent ]
they're not crazy (none / 0) (#292)
by Michael Moore IV on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 07:51:11 PM EST

they're just assholes. well, mostly. some, such as aphrael, are actually decent human beings. but most are just assholes.

[ Parent ]
teehee. (none / 0) (#301)
by Ibuprofen on Fri Oct 21, 2005 at 02:09:21 PM EST

aphrael likes assholes.

[ Parent ]
No there are instances of (none / 1) (#332)
by Orion Blastars Niece on Tue Mar 14, 2006 at 05:44:46 PM EST

#1 Right-Wing politics being zero rated and accounts that post them being anonymized. Right-Wing stories being voted down by dupe accounts.

#2 Members complaining of harassment, abuse, and threats by edits and other K5 members getting anonymized. Dupe accounts used to troll them, and mod down their comments.

#3 People posting and supporting Intelligent Design and Christianity being anonymized. Dupe accounts modding down those posts and voting down stories.

#4 Left-Wing politics being modded up and stories based on the left being voted to front page by dupe accounts.

#5 Dupe accounts being used to carry out vendettas towards various members, and when those members complain they are anonymized.

The same dupe accounts, used over and over again, are not anonymized because Rusty, the editors, and others happen to agree with them.

My Uncle, Orion Blastar had complained about this sort of thing before, for years, and it only lead to more abuse, harassment, and threats made towards him. Until he could no longer handle it, after many told him to kill himself on K5, IWETHEY, and in email, he did a Cyber-Death to get away for a while and used a dupe account to announce his death. Yet he did not use dupe accounts to vote down stories or mod-bomb people, he used them to show how the system can be abused, and then used one to announce his death.

If I am anonymized for posting this, it only proves the points of the post.

-
"Symantec Client Security Has Detected A Serious Vulnerability On Your Computer Click OK to Uninstall ..... Microsoft Windows"
[ Parent ]

I got anonymized (2.00 / 10) (#236)
by Orion Blastar Again on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 08:56:26 PM EST

because I killed myself off. I was depressed and suicidal, and I have proof from my doctors on that. My anonymization was a violation of my civil rights and human rights, because I am mentally ill and was not in control of my head at the time I tried to kill myself. Being dead was only temporary, besides my Orion Blastar account did not post that I was dead, but an alter-ego post made the post and both the Orion Blastar and alter-ego accounts got anonymized.

Not guilty by reason of insanity. True, I am still insane, but that is still no excuse for K5 editors and administrators to be unfair to me and anonymize me again when my mental illnesses take control of my head again, should that ever happen again, I hope that it does not.

If K5 actually made serious money, I'd have filed a lawsuit against it long ago. As of now, it is not worth my time, but lawyers tell me that I do indeed have a case. K5 members, editors, and administrators have a long history of abuse, harassment, critiscism, name calling, and other things against me that are a violation of community standards, and all of them have gotten off Scot-Free with no punishment or warnings at all.

I welcome the warning system, I just wish that enforcement of community standards was fair and just, and not a system of favoritism and only targets certain groups, but not all groups. Hot stove rules, everyone should be burned equally when they touch the hot stove.

Learn how to be a liberal.
I can't believe it's not Liberalism!
"Thanks for the pointers on using the internet. You're links to uncylopedia have turned my life around." -zenador

I'm sorry for what happened (1.25 / 4) (#263)
by The Muffin on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 12:34:24 AM EST

but the world doesn't owe you anything.

k5 is not obligated to allow you to post on the site, nor are they obligated to follow any sort of rules when it comes to anonymizing accounts. While this site is very open to the public, that does not make it a public institution, and it isn't subject to any sort of agreement, implicit or explicit.

The anonymizing, the warning system, all that sort of stuff, it's an attempt by the community to make the community better. Sometimes shit happens, sometimes things happen you don't agree with - however, k5 has no obligation to do anything for you, nor do they have the obligation to specifically not do something to you, regardless of situation. It's all up to the community to set its own standards.

This is the same reason why k5 can get rid of crapflooders and trolls. Since this isn't a public institution, it's not required to allow for freedom of speech. While that might sound horrible, in the context of k5, which is very open as far as what can be discussed and posted, it means that we can get rid of those we find offensive, something that couldn't be done by an entity bound by the constitution to allow for free speech.

So while it's never a good thing to get anonymized, certainly not while you're ill, there's nothing to say that anyone on k5 can't be gotten rid of at any time. This has the potential for abuse, but if that's the case, just find another site, or make your own.

[ Parent ]

Free Clues! (1.20 / 5) (#285)
by Commander Jameson on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 04:35:53 PM EST

  1. No-one gives a shit what you think.
  2. If you're going to file a lawsuit, file a lawsuit, otherwise see (1)
  3. Did oo try to kill ooself? Aw diddums. (see (1))
  4. Your total positive contributions to this site collectively add up to fuck all.


[ Parent ]
potkettleblack. /nt (1.20 / 5) (#302)
by Ignore Amos on Fri Oct 21, 2005 at 02:42:28 PM EST


And that explains why airplanes carry cargo on small boats floating in their cargo aquarium. - jmzero
[ Parent ]

potpotkettlekettleblackblack. $ (1.20 / 5) (#319)
by Commander Jameson on Sun Oct 30, 2005 at 07:48:44 AM EST



[ Parent ]
Do I Remember You? (2.00 / 2) (#286)
by Morosoph on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 06:51:54 PM EST

I remember a big fuss in the days that I was active on Stumbleupon.

I hope that you're okay.

Cheers, Tim.

[ Parent ]

Thank you! (1.33 / 3) (#273)
by bob6 on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 06:11:05 AM EST

A new toy to play with! Thankyouthankyouthankyou!

Cheers.
Fasten seatbelts (1.00 / 3) (#274)
by Alien zombie on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 07:17:23 AM EST

Turbulence ahead.
Vortex shedding by windbags.

Fasten belts (none / 0) (#282)
by MrLaminar on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 03:33:29 PM EST

Flatulence ahead. Vortex shedding by barfbags.

"Travel & Education. They will make you less happy. They will make you more tolerable to good people and less tolerable to bad people." - bobzibub
[ Parent ]
Who is "we"? (1.66 / 3) (#278)
by coryking on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 01:33:05 PM EST

Who is "we" and since when do you speak for the goals of this website?  Are you part of the K5 admin team?

If so, it doesn't say in the docs...

"We" means the k5 admins (none / 0) (#283)
by janra on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 03:45:04 PM EST

In the case of this story I think it's fair to say that I do speak for the goals of the site, as I spoke with most of the other admins and they had a look over what I wrote before it was posted.

Yes, I am a k5 admin, and have been for some time. Given that only admins can post to the Site News section, bypass the queue, edit stories, and add features, I had expected this would have been obvious.

The docs are out of date. I'm not the only admin not listed in them. As rusty has said in the past that he's not going to name admins anymore, I respect his decision and will decline to name them in the docs or elsewhere.
--
Discuss the art and craft of writing
That's the problem with world domination... Nobody is willing to wait for it anymore, work slowly towards it, drink more and enjoy the ride more.
[ Parent ]

-1, rewrite scoop in .net or STFU (1.50 / 6) (#287)
by balsamic vinigga on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 06:52:16 PM EST

is my would-be editorial comment, if janra wasn't able to bypass the censorship queue.

---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!
Hm, seems sensible. (2.75 / 4) (#297)
by razumiking on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 09:36:06 PM EST

While I think this new development and the rewrite of scoop for the .NET platform suggested below are steps in the right direction, I still must comment that this all somewhat misses the point (and here I refer more to the new system than the proposed rewrite).

First of all, look at the language used in the article: "It is our belief that they will help enforce community standards, make it more clear to people who have violated them what they have done wrong, and allow for improved communication between site admins and site users." The problems here are obvious:

  1. This community does not seem to have any standards, which is the real problem. The admins steadfastly refuse to lay down what those standards are, instead thinking that somehow they can leave that to the users (who are of course powerless to uphold any such standards or even set them forth in the first place).
  2. It is infinitely unlikely that anyone has ever unwittingly violated whatever standards exist here, since whatever they are, they seem to be ridiculously permissive. People who violate them clearly make a conscious effort to do so. Why, then, would you inform them of their violation? To show them someone has noticed? Because you think they might find it funny?
  3. With this in mind, why is it important to "communicate" with such people. Is this not, after all, just a response to the chronic whine: "Why did I get anonymized?" And incidentally, why do we ever see that question on this site? Someone who asks that is someone who was just removed, so why are they suddenly entitled to post again after doing nothing more than submitting a new user name and email address to the new user form? Indeed, these people are no longer users, so the notion of communication with them constituting an improvement in communication between admins and users is absurd on the face of it.
It seems to me that you've done nothing more than indulge the position of Michael Moore and the rest of the nutjobs around here who have developed a psychological dependence on crapflooding kuro5hin. They want to know why they're being anonymized and you've decided you'll tell them. Why? You should be answering a better question posed by better people: Why do they come back? Why can they come back?

Ultimately, the admins don't need to justify themselves to these halfwits and basketcases. They need to explain themselves to the legitimate users who make the site better rather than worse. Admins need to regain the confidence of the legitimate users -- and the way to do that is to completely eliminate the crapflooding element, not apologize to it.

This is idea is so hairbrained it could only be (1.85 / 7) (#298)
by MotorMachineMercenary on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 11:00:09 PM EST

conceived by some psycho bitch at her useless job trying to figure out how to shit in her own breakfast cereal.

Please don't waste your time coming up with any more "useful" features to my site.

--
"What's next, sigging a k5er quote about sigging someone on k5?"


oh so a man wouldnt have done this? (1.33 / 3) (#315)
by hildi on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 01:28:07 AM EST

moron

[ Parent ]
The New McCarthyism (none / 1) (#304)
by livus on Fri Oct 21, 2005 at 06:55:38 PM EST

was my first thought when I clicked on a user, only to see a great big Report field taking up the first part of their profile.

I mean, why the interface position? It's pretty imposing and in-your-face.

---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

A good start (none / 0) (#305)
by Hung Fu on Fri Oct 21, 2005 at 08:13:55 PM EST

but the most punitive outcome is that the banned user must spend a minute registering a new account.

Limiting user registration is not an option, but probation for new users, like dailykos, would make it slightly harder to game the system, although it could still be done by determined users. Also, instead of having just one punishment option, anonymization, have temporary banning so that people aren't forced to get new accounts, which contributes to the lack of accountability.

__
From Israel To Lebanon

Uh (2.00 / 3) (#308)
by p3d0 on Sat Oct 22, 2005 at 02:30:32 PM EST

What the hell is anonymization?
--
Patrick Doyle
My comments do not reflect the opinions of my employer.
holy shit, new site news (1.33 / 3) (#310)
by Delirium on Sat Oct 22, 2005 at 10:19:52 PM EST

Is it 2003 yet?

programmer lingo (3.00 / 5) (#312)
by Haxx on Sat Oct 22, 2005 at 11:46:29 PM EST

-I got bored at work one day last month and wrote the final interface bits.


Why must programmers tell us this every time they put some code together.

Textbook overcompensation.


Yeah, I just coded a new version of Apache from scratch. It was nothing. I was bored.

Abusive Zeroing of Non-Abusive Comments (2.07 / 26) (#313)
by MichaelCrawford on Mon Oct 24, 2005 at 03:11:41 AM EST

The single greatest problem I have seen with k5 for quite some time is that it only takes two users to zero a comment to make it a hidden one.

Now, I will admit that I have pissed some kurons off. And I will even admit that they have at times been pissed off with good reason. Yet, I assert that no amount of pissing them off is good reason for zeroing my every comment.

There are several trolls at k5 who do make a practice of zeroing my every comment. I have yet to write a comment so on-topic, so well-written and so carefully researched that some troll won't find reason to zero it.

Most of the time they are just drive-by shootings, when the offending troll just happens to stumble across one of my comments where he was reading anyway. But now and then I find that someone has carefully worked his way through my comment history, zeroing my every comment, even from stories that have disappeared from view weeks ago.

I think it was rmg who said the problem with allowing comments to be hidden by zeroing them is that it invited aggression. Imagine what it would be like for you if every time you opened your mouth in public someone walked by and punched you. That is what it is like for me and, I'm sure, for many other people here at Kuro5hin. That's one reason I haven't been participating much lately.

All it takes for a comment to be censored is a single troll with a single dupe account. But it isn't the trolls that are the most abusive. No, it is not someone the least bit anonymous: it is an editor, pwhysall specifically. He zeroes my comments systematically.

I've brought pwhysall's abuse up before, and others have chimed in with their complaints about him, yet not only is his account not anonymized, he is still able to wield editorial authority.

Imagine how it must feel to anyone who takes their writing seriously that it can be so effectively censored with so little effort.

The one silver lining to this cloud is that there are others who are helpful, and upon finding my comments hidden, rate them with threes to unhide them. From time to time someone even goes through my whole comment history giving me threes to keep the trolls from abusing the rating system.

I don't know what the best solution to this problem is, but I know that what we have now is not it.


--

Live your fucking life. Sue someone on the Internet. Write a fucking music player. Like the great man Michael David Crawford has shown us all: Hard work, a strong will to stalk, and a few fries short of a happy meal goes a long way. -- bride of spidy


Oh, stop whining. (1.09 / 11) (#322)
by pwhysall on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 12:09:49 AM EST

And stop lying, while you're at it. I've never modbombed anyone, ever.
--
Peter
K5 Editors
I'm going to wager that the story keeps getting dumped because it is a steaming pile of badly formatted fool-meme.
CheeseBurgerBrown
[ Parent ]
you rated CTS a zero once (none / 1) (#333)
by army of phred on Wed Apr 12, 2006 at 02:38:58 PM EST

thats good enough for me! have a 3!

"Republicans are evil." lildebbie
"I have no fucking clue what I'm talking about." motormachinemercenary
"my wife is getting a blowjob" ghostoft1ber
[ Parent ]
Every 0 from me was deserved (1.33 / 6) (#323)
by NaCh0 on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 03:04:41 PM EST

I zero any post where you aggrandize yourself. Try posting topical where you don't mention yourself, your wife, your website, your business, or Canada.

--
K5: Your daily dose of socialism.
[ Parent ]
It seems like you are just being inflamatory (1.20 / 5) (#328)
by 7h3647h32in6 on Mon Jan 02, 2006 at 01:01:35 PM EST

You are provoking what you are whining about, and I for one don't care to read it.

[ Parent ]
its not about pg13 you fucking retard (2.00 / 5) (#314)
by hildi on Tue Oct 25, 2005 at 01:26:36 AM EST

its about the erasure and banning of UNPOPULAR OPINIONS. not of offensive or 'saucy' content.

but of content that you, the admins, dont like.


warnings sytem - ineffectual (3.00 / 4) (#324)
by china rules on Thu Nov 03, 2005 at 04:06:59 PM EST

in the last 2 weeks i've posted a number of very outrageous things, but i've never been warned and i always had to anonymize myself.

If you weren't so lazy (2.40 / 5) (#327)
by BadDoggie on Tue Dec 13, 2005 at 08:58:08 AM EST

You could photoshop your way to guaranteed anonymisation. It desn't even have to be a good job. I mean, you don't even have to do the actual photoshopping anymore -- you can google an image that would work and link to that.

But you'd rather sit on mom's couch and complain that you're not troll enough to get yourself anonymised.

woof.

"Eppur si muove." -- Galileo Galilei
"Nevertheless, it moves."
[ Parent ]

cock up de ass $ (1.16 / 18) (#325)
by kuro5inner on Mon Nov 07, 2005 at 09:10:36 AM EST



BUTTTTTTTTTTSEXXXXXXXX (1.50 / 10) (#329)
by gutterslut on Thu Jan 12, 2006 at 08:21:55 PM EST



plz to be giving anon'd accounts back k thx (3.00 / 4) (#330)
by nvb on Fri Jan 20, 2006 at 08:47:34 PM EST


--
I'm smarter than the average bear.

ye olde site newse $ (none / 1) (#331)
by All Americans are of African descent and obese on Thu Feb 09, 2006 at 11:48:52 PM EST



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