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K5 Becomes "Gated Dysfunctional Community"

By rusty in Site News
Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 01:09:20 PM EST
Tags: meta, paysite (all tags)

I'm sure you've heard of Walled Gardens and Gated Communities; exclusive preserves of desirable content or location only accessable to paying members. Well, not being one to get left behind, I have created here on K5 what might be the internet's first "Walled Ghetto." An exclusive preserve of dysfunctional social interaction and semi-undesirable content.

Ok, wise-assery aside, as per the changes discussed below, I have turned new signups back on but there is now a one-time $5.00 fee to obtain posting rights. Everyone who already has an account still has it -- you've been grandfathered (or grandmothered) in by virtue of signing up during the first seven years of the site's existence. So it's true, the early bird really does get the worm! Way to go.

Read on for a few more details and specifics.


First, to repeat: if you are here already with a user account, you don't have to pay anything. A lot of people seemed to be worried that I was going to shut everyone's access off and extort a payment from all of you. That's not going to happen.

Also, a few of you have noticed the expanded hotlist stuff. I got rid of the old premium member subscription, and enabled those features for everyone. If you haven't noticed it, look in the right-hand sidebar. You now have automatic reply tracking ("Replies"), a convenient list of your own recent stories, and a Diary watchlist in addition to the old Hotlist. You also can use spellcheck now on your stories, diaries, and comments.

The ad-free monthly subscription option still exists, for $2.00 a month.

The background of this is basically that dupe accounts had become fairly epidemic, and harassment and flooding a scripted sport here of late, and something had to change. The theory is that with less abuse, the site will be more fun to use, therefore more people will use it, and a small fee yto join will help ensure that they have a stake in the site as well.

The alternative theory, supported by a good many of you in the comments to the original discussion of this is that everything will go to hell, because no one would ever pony up the price of one beer for posting rights here. I don't know which theory is right, which makes it a worthwhile experiment, I think. So let's see what happens.

The other oft-expressed concern is that people will be banned for no reason and without warning. We do have a warning system, and with this change (and knowledge that coming back from a ban is going to cost you something) we will be a hell of a lot more liberal about issuing warnings and a lot less quick to ban anyone. For my part, I consider the slate clean -- I'm going to proceed as though everyone here is a well-intentioned new user. So, welcome to K5 everyone. No one is going to be banned without any warnings.

Some people said they believe there are no clear rules and no administrative activity. This is really not true. The rules are:

  • Treat others how you would like to be treated
  • Don't be personally abusive to other members
  • And the basic standard global rules of minimally-acceptable online behavior, like don't post commercial spam

It's not that complicated. None of the above prohibits trolling or high-spririted stupidity, provided that the people participating are willing. No, the above is not a detailed list of allowed and prohibited behavior, but on the other hand, we aren't in kindergarten here. The longer the list of specific rules, the more time everyone spends trying to poke legal loopholes through them. I am not a lawyer. I don't expect any of you to be.

As for administrative accessability, if anyone doesn't know already, you can always quickly (where "quickly" can mean "within up to a half day or so") report abuse to an admin by going to an abusive user's profile page (i.e. mine if you hate this change) and writing a note in the "Report Abuse" form on the left side. Please do be specific, and URLs help a lot. We look at these reports all the time, and we do take action on them if warranted.

I think that's it. Oh, I dropped the original idea of hashing payment info to restrict people to one signup. Firstly, you guys convinced me that it wouldn't work (gift cards and so forth), secondly enough people seemed to be concerned about the security of the idea that I'd rather avoid that unless it was absolutely necessary, and finally, I'm not really sure it would serve any purpose. If you like screwing around here enough to pay me for the privilege, I guess that's ok for now.

Also, payment is via the normal subscription system, and is credit card (Visa/MC), paypal, or check or untraceable money order by mail, in case you're super-worried about your pseudonymity. I repeat that I really don't care who you are, and you should take as many precautions as you feel are necessary to maintain as much anonymity as you are comfortable with.

And finally, you can sign up and buy an ad without paying for an account. If the ad is approved, your account will be activated automatically.

Sorry for the somewhat scattered list of "oh yeahs" here. I probably forgot something else, so ask me below if I did. And thanks for hanging in there with K5. You guys do make life more interesting. :-)

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Related Links
o Walled Gardens
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o below
o the original discussion of this
o mine
o Also by rusty


Display: Sort:
K5 Becomes "Gated Dysfunctional Community" | 290 comments (290 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Abuse report filed $ (3.00 / 42) (#1)
by loteck on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 01:13:25 PM EST


--
"You're in tune to the musical sound of loteck hi-fi, the musical sound that moves right round. Keep on moving ya'll." -Mylakovich
"WHAT AN ETERNAL MOBIUS STRIP OF FELLATIATIC BANALITY THIS IS." -Harry B Otch

pants on fire (2.91 / 12) (#2)
by rusty on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 01:14:35 PM EST



____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
5 bucks (none / 0) (#287)
by infaustus on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 12:03:32 PM EST

Hope you got 5 bucks.

[ Parent ]
also (3.00 / 3) (#3)
by aphrael on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 01:16:04 PM EST

several of us are usually available on irc.slashnet.org, if you need us.

immediate response isn't guaranteed because we're all busy, but responses do come eventually.

I think the argument goes something like (3.00 / 11) (#9)
by ray eckson on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:07:53 PM EST

if the admins of the site don't even participate regularly on the site, are they good candidates for being admins?


wampsy: hey ray why don't you start up a site. you could call it ray5.
rusty: I gotta fix that stupid cancel bug.
booger: How's that for daring to get ray eckson all sniffy, you cow?
poopy: Not that I'm gay or anything, but for you I might make an exception.
[ Parent ]
what channel? {[nt (none / 0) (#194)
by Stick Apart on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 08:46:41 AM EST


-------
> "I think it could easily be around 200 million people dead because of gun control." - V

SUPPORT A TEXT-FRIENDLY INTERNET
[ Parent ]

private message. (2.33 / 3) (#200)
by aphrael on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 10:17:02 AM EST

you bring k5 stuff into the channels i'm hanging out in, the other locals will pummel you.

[ Parent ]
Did you att the pay-to-ban option? (2.85 / 14) (#4)
by fluxrad on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 01:52:14 PM EST

I've got $3.99 up for CTS, in case anyone wants to throw anything in the kitty.

This is a step in the right direction. Sure, content may dry up in the short term (I actually don't think even that will happen), but in the long term methinks this will lead to less crapflooding and a higher signal to noise ratio. Plus, I'm already in - including my ever-so-valuable dupe accounts, so screw the dirty hippies that didn't jump on the bandwagon soon enough.

I'd like to reiterate my call for an expanded diary feature set, though. It might not improve the quality of content, but it would improve the quantity you'd find on the front page. More voltage means more readers means more signups means better content, and you get the rest...

And by "rest" I mean, more manacle polish for Captain Rust.

--
"It is seldom liberty of any kind that is lost all at once."
-David Hume
Frankly I need people like CTS (3.00 / 8) (#24)
by thugsonfilm on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:22:47 PM EST

to make me look good.

If all the suckers got banned, I'd be less resplendent.

[ Parent ]

I'll second on the pay-to-ban idea (3.00 / 8) (#57)
by godix on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:30:07 PM EST

I'll cough up a couple bucks to ban Rusty if anyone wants to join in.


- An egotist is someone who thinks they're almost as good as I am.
[ Parent ]
yeah (2.00 / 2) (#96)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 05:18:55 PM EST

banning cts is like banning rusty

(say it enough times, they believe it)


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

here's $100 to shut that pompous windbag cts up $ (3.00 / 4) (#73)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:59:59 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
We could put bannination money on future accts too (3.00 / 4) (#147)
by skyknight on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 09:12:04 PM EST

It would be like in Half-Life multi-player when you put trip-mines on all the spawn points.

It's not much fun at the top. I envy the common people, their hearty meals and Bruce Springsteen and voting. --SIGNOR SPAGHETTI
[ Parent ]
How about turning back on images then? ~ (2.42 / 7) (#5)
by thugsonfilm on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 01:57:53 PM EST



Oh please no. /nt (3.00 / 7) (#13)
by claes on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:14:04 PM EST



[ Parent ]
What are you afraid of? (3.00 / 2) (#19)
by thugsonfilm on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:18:51 PM EST

Uncle Rusty has assured us that all will be tranquilo in k5 paradise now that Saint Peter PayPal guards the gates.

Are you afraid of some... pix?

[ Parent ]

Loosing my lunch. (3.00 / 2) (#51)
by claes on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:08:22 PM EST



[ Parent ]
The 'New' K5(tm) wouldn't do that! ~ (none / 1) (#61)
by thugsonfilm on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:38:40 PM EST



[ Parent ]
solutions: (3.00 / 2) (#65)
by insomnyuk on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:43:39 PM EST

filesize and image dimension limits, only whitelist the img tag for approved servers, only allow images to be posted within stories and diaries. Sure, some abuse might happen, but in the long run, who is really going to spend money to keep trolling k5 in such an economically inefficient manner?

Also, yuotube.

---
"There is only one honest impulse at the bottom of Puritanism, and that is the impulse to punish the man with a superior capacity for happiness." - H.L. Mencken
[ Parent ]

On HuSi you gotta upload (none / 1) (#97)
by thugsonfilm on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 05:28:15 PM EST

the pic to their server. Then you select it from a menu.

fwiw.

[ Parent ]

That might make images acceptable (none / 1) (#204)
by QuickFox on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 11:54:13 AM EST

filesize and image dimension limits,

I really feel that images don't belong here. But with proper restrictions even I would find them acceptable. Namely, max image dimension should be 1 x 1 pixel.

You know, with that restriction we could even allow some carefully tasteful nudity.

Those who would give up essential liberty deserve Bush.
[ Parent ]

Such as... (3.00 / 4) (#217)
by rusty on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 12:54:51 PM EST

...a lifesized picture of your junk?

Oh come on, somone was going to say it.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Don't think that would work for me. (3.00 / 2) (#233)
by The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 04:03:23 PM EST

Seriously, who reads K5 on a projector?

___
I'm a pompous windbag, I take myself far too seriously, and I single-handedly messed up K5 by causing the fiction section to be created. --localroger

[ Parent ]
My goodness! This can't be happening! (none / 1) (#235)
by QuickFox on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 05:59:28 PM EST

So here I return, after years of absence — and this is the welcoming I get?

Hey aphrael, look what this guy said to me! He needs the new anonymization-and-payment treatment, maybe then he'll learn.

At least, Rusty, you did claim — and you made this claim in public — that my nudity is carefully tasteful. Not that it will get you anywhere, because I'm not gay, but I find it interesting that you tried.

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Those who would give up essential liberty deserve Bush.
[ Parent ]

HOW ABOUT YOU GO TO 4CHAN (3.00 / 3) (#95)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 05:17:52 PM EST

MOAR!


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
A few questions/statements for you (2.14 / 7) (#6)
by Troll Hard on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 01:58:57 PM EST

#1 How much will it cost to get an anonymized (banned) account back to normal status? I'd like to be able to post as my old Orion Blastar account.

#2 Treat others how you would like to be treated, is sort of a ninja rule I have followed. I treat others the way they treat me, as I figure they "Treat others how they would like to be treated" which means if they zero bomb me, I zero bomb them back, if they harass me I harass them back. Plus so many people told me to go kill myself that I did kill Orion Blastar using the Norjak account in November 2004 via a Cyber Suicide that got both the Orion Blastar and Norjak accounts anonymized, but the members who kept telling me to kill myself never got anonymized. I figured they wanted me to die figuratively instead of literally, plus it made the ultimate troll, and got rid of my real life suicidal thoughts I had in my head.

#3 When I first joined Kuro5hin, I was normal and didn't bother anyone. I had fun joking around like anyone else. But then people started to mess with me, harass me, call me names, insult my intelligence, and generally be abusive to me here on Kuro5hin, on Husi, on IWETHEY until the stress and abuse I got online combined with the stress and abuse I got from my job turned me into the person I am now known as, and forced me on disability. I always wanted to reform, but nobody ever gave me the chance. If I did something I didn't consider bad, like talking from my personal experience or talking about me or parts of my life, people abused me and treated me like a cat that missed the litterbox. Fuck that shit, if your new policies prevent that sort of abuse, maybe I can heal up and get better.

#4 If I can take focus off the trolling, I should be able to write some good stories. Which is the real reason I joined Kuro5hin around 1998 or whatever, and got distracted from because of all the abuse I suffered. I am currently working on a story about BitTorrent and posted an idea and draft to my diary. I hope that the dupe hordes don't vote down my story like they did my Orion Blastar fiction stories that was being approved, until the dupes started to vote it down, and I countered by dupe voting my own to balance out the negative dupe votes with positive ones. How come you accept dupe votes that vote down stories, but reject ones that vote up stories? A lot of good stories got voted down by dupe votes, and this has been a problem at Kuro5hin ever since before I joined here. BTW I decided to theme my helpful stories as "Ask A Psychopath" since everyone here considers me insane by their standards anyway.

--------
Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it! Mind over Matter Fringe Science for the win!

The onion used to do "Ask a X" advice... (3.00 / 2) (#15)
by claes on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:17:03 PM EST

columns.  They were pretty funny.

Dear Navy SEAL,

I am a happily married man with a warm and loving wife who is also my best friend. We've been together for 17 years and couldn't be happier. But lately she says she wants separate beds. I'm reeling! We're barely in our 40s, and in my mind separate sleeping is for seniors. Am I making too much of this? Help!

--Anxious In Andersonville

Dear Anxious,

Destroying a bridge might look easy in the movies, but remember: They're designed to withstand the immense shear-forces of wind and weather. Deploying an underwater M-32 satchel charge at the base of each load-bearing pylon looks like the answer, ...



[ Parent ]
Well actually (none / 1) (#59)
by Troll Hard on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:33:41 PM EST

I wanted to spoof those "Ask A Psychologist" stories that used to be posted on Kuro5hin or places on the Internet. But while I want to have humor in them, I wanted the story to be helpful in some way like help people understand how to get BitTorrent to download faster and other such advice.

Instead of Asking a sane person like a Psychologist, you ask an insane person like a Psychopath.

--------
Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it! Mind over Matter Fringe Science for the win!
[ Parent ]

I like it... (none / 1) (#100)
by claes on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 05:38:20 PM EST

paranoid anthropomorphizing adds a bit of personal interest to an otherwise drab topic.
The wireless access point was at this point possessed by demons, so it came down to a choice between reinstalling the firmware or burning it in the ritual firepit in the backyard.


[ Parent ]
I had to tone it down (none / 1) (#117)
by Troll Hard on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 06:36:47 PM EST

to Ask A Space Pirate instead. I think using the word Psychopath upset people and turned them away from the story.

--------
Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it! Mind over Matter Fringe Science for the win!
[ Parent ]
BEHOLD (3.00 / 16) (#7)
by Tex two point oh on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 01:59:34 PM EST

RUSTY'S FIRST PAYING SUCKER

I c wut u did thar (3.00 / 5) (#12)
by rusty on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:12:15 PM EST



____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
now lets see if 'bllwyd' (none / 1) (#85)
by ray eckson on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 04:41:35 PM EST

actually ponies up


wampsy: hey ray why don't you start up a site. you could call it ray5.
rusty: I gotta fix that stupid cancel bug.
booger: How's that for daring to get ray eckson all sniffy, you cow?
poopy: Not that I'm gay or anything, but for you I might make an exception.
[ Parent ]
llwyd (none / 0) (#239)
by shoemaker on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 07:21:55 PM EST

Welsh for "Grey".

Appropriate.

[ Parent ]

i understand why you did it (2.66 / 3) (#8)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:04:41 PM EST

the admin hassle of dealing with the spellchecking bot, nights in white satin bullshit, etc. if i was adminning the site, i would do it to

but of course, this will dramatically impact new users (such as they are, hard to tell in the constant dupe hordes). $5 versus free, it might as well be 2 cents versus free, or $2,000 versus free: no one wants to deal with the hassle of paying anything. they expect free. the perception of value when you are first using the site, versus the perception of value after using it for awhile, is such that you need to hook them with free to begin with

but again, i understand why you did it. the admin overhead headache must be a nightmarish

however, i like this comment of mine:

http://www.kuro5hin.org/comments/2007/9/6/13198/22082/64#64

"new users can only comment. then later they can mod comments, then later they can have a diary, then later they can post stories"

sort of a throttled, gradual intriduction to further abilities: only comment once an hour at first... after a few ok posts, increase that threshold... after a few more good posts, over an extended period of time, allow a diary (at a certain rate over a certain time frame)... then allow stories

but even better is this comment:

http://www.kuro5hin.org/comments/2007/9/6/13198/22082/107#107

"Google solved the problem of dupes using SMS: they ask you to send an SMS to some number and then they return a secret code. Of course they store a hash of the phone number and don't allow more registrations from that number.
Will it work outside USA?"

use sms. then you have to be a committed troll with a number of cell phones (assuming there isn't some sort of skype multiple number hack that takes sms that i don't know about)


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

5 dollars is far less complicated and time (3.00 / 4) (#26)
by insomnyuk on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:25:39 PM EST

consuming. As a potential new user, who just wants to leave a few quick comments (say you are Theo de Raadt, for example) would probably figure a quick 5 bucks up front is easier than doing some song and dance to get 'approved' over time.

For example, on MetaFilter, often when they link to a site and start talking about it, the owner of the site or the subject of the discussion will pay 5 bucks to sign up and then comment on that one story, and often you never see them again.

Timeliness is an issue you are leaving out with your suggested fix. Oh, and not everyone has SMS. I have disabled it on my cellphone, because I am tired of paying 5 fucking cents to read a motherfucking 'lol' or ':-)' from some bitch I hardly know, and I'll be goddamned if I pay Verizon $5+ per month to send basically 100kb of data over their network. If people want to contact me, they can use voice, and leave a fucking message. In conclusion, fuck SMS.

---
"There is only one honest impulse at the bottom of Puritanism, and that is the impulse to punish the man with a superior capacity for happiness." - H.L. Mencken
[ Parent ]

less time consuming? (none / 1) (#32)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:28:07 PM EST

so why did you just ask rusty to do a bunch of shit for you? (yer images comment)

and no one is going to spend money. you fail to understand what a damper that is


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

your question is a non sequitur, and yes, I get it (3.00 / 3) (#33)
by insomnyuk on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:30:05 PM EST

- a lot of people don't want to pay money to comment.

You know a lot of people don't want to provide a valid email address to comment either.

Tough shit, boo hoo. 5 dollars is chump change. 2 cents would be insulting, at least 5 dollars makes signing up look relatively valuable. Underpricing something is just as dangerous as overpricing it.

---
"There is only one honest impulse at the bottom of Puritanism, and that is the impulse to punish the man with a superior capacity for happiness." - H.L. Mencken
[ Parent ]

psychology dillweed (none / 1) (#48)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:04:37 PM EST

understand psychology?


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
apparently moreso than you [nt] (3.00 / 2) (#56)
by insomnyuk on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:28:46 PM EST



---
"There is only one honest impulse at the bottom of Puritanism, and that is the impulse to punish the man with a superior capacity for happiness." - H.L. Mencken
[ Parent ]
you don't understand what "free" means $ (none / 1) (#68)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:47:21 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
YES {[nt (none / 0) (#236)
by Stick Apart on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 06:43:46 PM EST


-------
> "I think it could easily be around 200 million people dead because of gun control." - V

SUPPORT A TEXT-FRIENDLY INTERNET
[ Parent ]

I thought that the amount wasnt the issue (none / 0) (#212)
by daveybaby on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 12:32:45 PM EST

I thought the whole point was that you can then refuse to allow another account to be charged to the same credit card.

Or am i reading between the lines here?

[ Parent ]

I do understand what a damper that is (3.00 / 5) (#36)
by rusty on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:42:37 PM EST

I'm doing it because it is a damper. Seriously. I know its nuts, but that really is the hypothesis. Fewer people who have more at stake in membership == a better site.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
you're talking to a populist (none / 1) (#47)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:03:52 PM EST

less accessibility=less quality, no matter what rationale you use

where quality=most democratic sampling of voices

but, as i said before, it is the path of least resistance in terms of work overhead, which, thankless as that is, i completely understand where you are coming from

i don't like your decision, but i understand and accept it


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Heh (3.00 / 2) (#53)
by rusty on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:11:43 PM EST

So it seems like we basically agree. I don't like it either, but I like it more than any of the alternatives.

Although, I don't necessarily subscribe to the populist theory in all circumstances...

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

i loathe class structures (none / 1) (#69)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:48:44 PM EST

whether by money, or intelligence, or nay other random construct which posit an "us" better than a "them"

pure populism, or nothing at all


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Well, but (3.00 / 5) (#75)
by rusty on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 04:02:06 PM EST

I've been thinking about it, and there is a flip side to that. I don't fundamentally believe that there is anyone (much) who has the wherewithal to get online, find this site, and make an account, but who literally cannot come up with $5.00. If you're objecting because any fee is too expensive for someone and therefore is preventing someone from participating, well. I don't really buy it. I'm sure there's someone out there somewhere, but I expect that in practice the number of people excluded because they can't pay will be zero.

So on the other hand, with open accounts, what we have is a situation which is much more anti-populist. A few people have the free time and technical skill to make and control an unlimited number of accounts. They can therefore steer the site as they please, barring interference by me and the other admins, which is somewhat effective but not entirely.

I totally share your goal of democratic access. But I'm looking at both sides of that. Anyone can play, for the same fee, no matter who you are or where you are. But if you want to swing above your weight, you have to pay more, and you will risk losing actual money for it.

None of this means that dupe voting is legitimate -- it still isn't, even if you paid for multiple accounts. When found, it will still be prevented.

So I don't know that this is inherently less populist.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

it's impulse (none / 1) (#77)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 04:09:10 PM EST

it's the extra hassle. what we're talking about here is not the New York Times (which, btw is free online, with a paying portion, that management just decided to get rid of)

so if even the new york times can see the light about going free, going pay seems like a step back. the NYT understands that online, all websurfing is path of least resistance. getting money from the websurfers just chases away websurfers. better to have a larger audience for free than a tiny one for money. but then again, the NYT doesn't have to worry about the kind of asocial behavior this site gets constantly attacked with, or even if they did, they can handle it with an actual friggin department and warchest of money

i spend plenty of obsessive time here. but i didn't in the beginning. and if i had to pay, i probably never would have made the leap

to put it another way rusty, you'd make a poor drug dealer. you need to give away some product to get them addicted. then it's all gravy

see, you should charge obsessed windbags like me $20,000, and give newbs $5 each

oh shit, what the fuck am i saying

fuck


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Now hold on (3.00 / 5) (#81)
by rusty on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 04:23:44 PM EST

The NYT was pay-to-read. Anyone can hang out here and read all they want. That's your free dose. The pay only comes in when someone has trolled you so badly piqued your interest strongly enough that you need to respond.

I'm going on the idea that chasing away people who really aren't willing to drop $5 (for access forever mind you) is not necessarily a bad thing.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Also (3.00 / 2) (#82)
by rusty on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 04:24:45 PM EST

I stopped writing too soon. To close the loop here: I think that you would eventually have held your nose and paid up, because no lousy $5 is going to keep your big mouth shut. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
you're right (none / 1) (#87)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 04:47:11 PM EST

except i would be gabbing away at some other free site

...which would get ruined with the asocial dupe behavior

...which makes k5 more attractive if it's dupe free

so if i wasn't grandfathered in, i probly neverd be here, but being grandfathered in, i'm benefitting, so i have no reason to complain, except in an idealistic abstract way that you should take with a grain of salt:

yes, pay to post chases away the asocial twatstains. but it also chases away a huge amount of cheap lazy but voluminous posters like me. just think of all the futrue circletimessquares you are killing (or maybe not, ehem)

the question is, which remains to be seen, which is the worst negative?:

  1. lots of lazy cheap new users who talk alot but also some evil shitholes?
  2. hardly any new users (the $5 psychology bit), but all of them squeaky clean, and not a duping pussbag in sight

it's a hard gamble, and i commiserate with your bet, and i'm not going to argue against you in some idealistic fashion, because i'm not the one who has to clean up after spell checking bots and other tedious asocial putredtude


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
Well (3.00 / 3) (#89)
by rusty on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 04:53:39 PM EST

I appreciate your bizarrely reasonable points, anyway. :-)

Who are you, and what did you do with cts?

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

pfffft (3.00 / 3) (#90)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 05:03:40 PM EST

you had one of your pinkerton thugs meet circletimessquare in new york around the 2006 elections, claiming you were going to meet him. then your thug murdered him, on the dubious rationale of ruining the socratic tenor of your site, and you took over the account with a script, which has been pattering away on an old early 90s 40 MHz 386 ever since (not many computer cycles needed, really, to simulate a circletimessquare post)

like your United Fools script, sitting on your old late 80s 20 MHz 286 machine

but the post above this that i the circletimessquare script am responding to right now was a nice feint at establishing an alibi, you bastard murderous web baron. go tool around in your yacht down in kennebunkport with your slimy bush family friends. pffft, like you fooled anyone here. right, up there in maine: you're lobster fishing? you neocon kennebunkport layabout partisan. you're nothing but a front job for the wrong side of the civil debate in this country, i know you've been meeting with rupert murdoch to sell k5 to news corp and fox news at the bush family compound. don't try to fool us you bush family hack


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

lollerskirts (2.40 / 5) (#125)
by white light on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 06:58:02 PM EST

could you bend over any further?

btw what ever happened to kurocts?


..do you really want to help foster this type of laziness?
[ Parent ]

Whut? United Fools is a machine? (3.00 / 4) (#178)
by livus on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 01:49:57 AM EST

I'M IN LOVE WITH A MACHINE!?!

---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

[ Parent ]
No, no machine is smart enough to be a fool (3.00 / 3) (#232)
by United Fools on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 03:02:36 PM EST


We are united, we are fools, and we are America!
[ Parent ]
he's off his meds (3.00 / 3) (#119)
by ray eckson on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 06:41:50 PM EST

or on them



wampsy: hey ray why don't you start up a site. you could call it ray5.
rusty: I gotta fix that stupid cancel bug.
booger: How's that for daring to get ray eckson all sniffy, you cow?
poopy: Not that I'm gay or anything, but for you I might make an exception.
[ Parent ]
lol (3.00 / 3) (#173)
by Linux or FreeBSD on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 12:39:07 AM EST

drug dealers don't like to beat themselves. sounds like you'd be quite a popular one until you ran out of money, though.

[ Parent ]
less accessibility = less quality is an unprovable (3.00 / 5) (#58)
by insomnyuk on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:32:05 PM EST

dictum.

MetaFilter, for example, has drastically improved in quality since they started requiring payment for new user signups.

Ask anyone on there that is a regular now, even people that signed up before the 5$ requirement.

---
"There is only one honest impulse at the bottom of Puritanism, and that is the impulse to punish the man with a superior capacity for happiness." - H.L. Mencken
[ Parent ]

I agree about MeFi (3.00 / 3) (#60)
by rusty on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:34:10 PM EST

Completely. That's one of the things that has convinced me to go this route.

Why do you say that cts's idea is unprovable though? It cvould turn out to be the case. I don't think it's any more unprovable than the reverse.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

that's my point - it's unprovable except through (3.00 / 5) (#62)
by insomnyuk on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:39:19 PM EST

anecdotes, which I immediately used to 'disprove' his claim. I should have specified. He is talking in a manner that sounds like he is making a scientifically empirical claim, so I responded in kind. Should have been more specific.

---
"There is only one honest impulse at the bottom of Puritanism, and that is the impulse to punish the man with a superior capacity for happiness." - H.L. Mencken
[ Parent ]
well (none / 1) (#72)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:54:49 PM EST

i back off from my humbling

http://www.kuro5hin.org/comments/2007/9/10/13920/3664/70#70

the paying user bs started in 2004 for metafilter. ...but the massive traffic increase didn't happen until years later. so some OTHER site change could be responsible


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

data point: (3.00 / 3) (#74)
by insomnyuk on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 04:01:46 PM EST

it would be useful to correlate the new user signups with the fact that Ask MetaFilter was started at the end of 03, and picked up steam by the end of 04. Many users paid the fee just to be able to ask a question, and a percentage stayed on. It really is a great resource.

I think there is a strong relationship between the fee based user system, more features and better content, as well as active moderators.

People on MetaFilter prize their memberships there for a reason.

Suggestion: buy a membership on mefi, and post a question to MetaTalk, linking back to this discussion and asking what they think of the $5 thing. I'd do it myself but I was banned back in the day (login cookies allowed me to update my profile tho).

---
"There is only one honest impulse at the bottom of Puritanism, and that is the impulse to punish the man with a superior capacity for happiness." - H.L. Mencken
[ Parent ]

i was banned on fark (3.00 / 2) (#78)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 04:10:08 PM EST

but i still lurk there

mefi never really got my panties wet


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

i'm just saying, if you want to hear it from the (3.00 / 4) (#79)
by insomnyuk on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 04:11:05 PM EST

source. rusty has an account there, he could ask the question in fact.

---
"There is only one honest impulse at the bottom of Puritanism, and that is the impulse to punish the man with a superior capacity for happiness." - H.L. Mencken
[ Parent ]
i'll be damned (3.00 / 2) (#70)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:53:03 PM EST

seems to be some truth there son

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?url=metafilter.com

select 5 years

massive traffic increase last few years

i stand humbled

by YOU

i suck


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

Do we also get to post directly to FP? /nt (2.66 / 6) (#10)
by MotorMachineMercenary on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:12:01 PM EST


--
It's hard to be humble when even Mr Bigballs rates me as #1 Kuro5hit.


That will cost $20 [nt] (none / 0) (#210)
by daveybaby on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 12:27:36 PM EST



[ Parent ]
RUSTY YOUR EXPERIMENT HAS FAILED (2.85 / 14) (#11)
by ray eckson on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:12:13 PM EST




wampsy: hey ray why don't you start up a site. you could call it ray5.
rusty: I gotta fix that stupid cancel bug.
booger: How's that for daring to get ray eckson all sniffy, you cow?
poopy: Not that I'm gay or anything, but for you I might make an exception.
in that case (3.00 / 3) (#14)
by aphrael on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:14:50 PM EST

it's time for a new one!

[ Parent ]
The correct form is: K5 is dying /nt (2.66 / 6) (#20)
by MotorMachineMercenary on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:19:26 PM EST


--
It's hard to be humble when even Mr Bigballs rates me as #1 Kuro5hit.


[ Parent ]
you fail history (3.00 / 2) (#31)
by ray eckson on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:28:04 PM EST

original:
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2006/6/17/02448/2530

spinoffs:
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awww.kuro5hin.org+rusty+your+experiment+has +failed&btnG=Search


wampsy: hey ray why don't you start up a site. you could call it ray5.
rusty: I gotta fix that stupid cancel bug.
booger: How's that for daring to get ray eckson all sniffy, you cow?
poopy: Not that I'm gay or anything, but for you I might make an exception.
[ Parent ]

I pull uid rank /nt (3.00 / 2) (#39)
by MotorMachineMercenary on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:46:02 PM EST


--
It's hard to be humble when even Mr Bigballs rates me as #1 Kuro5hit.


[ Parent ]
all the more reason for you to have a functioning (3.00 / 2) (#44)
by ray eckson on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:58:28 PM EST

brain


wampsy: hey ray why don't you start up a site. you could call it ray5.
rusty: I gotta fix that stupid cancel bug.
booger: How's that for daring to get ray eckson all sniffy, you cow?
poopy: Not that I'm gay or anything, but for you I might make an exception.
[ Parent ]
Wait, how does THAT follow? (none / 1) (#198)
by Just this guy on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 09:55:35 AM EST



[ Parent ]
bah (none / 1) (#172)
by llimllib on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 12:27:57 AM EST

link

Peace.
[ Parent ]
Hmm... (3.00 / 6) (#16)
by LilDebbie on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:17:40 PM EST

"I'm going to proceed as though everyone here is a well-intentioned new user."

I'll be sure to pass that along to Jason.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

if Jason wants to subsidize rusty at 5 bucks per (3.00 / 8) (#23)
by insomnyuk on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:20:55 PM EST

account, who is the bigger loser?

---
"There is only one honest impulse at the bottom of Puritanism, and that is the impulse to punish the man with a superior capacity for happiness." - H.L. Mencken
[ Parent ]
A missed opportunity: steer k5 towards meritocracy (3.00 / 5) (#17)
by glor on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:17:44 PM EST

I was about to submit an expanded version of this to the queue, but why bother now?

It should stay free to comment and submit stories.  It should cost to vote and to publish diaries --- that's where the problems have been.  Five dollars is a reasonable cost.  Better, in the spirit of the K5 experiment with democratic publishing, is full membership upon a published story.

Oh well.

--
Disclaimer: I am not the most intelligent kuron.

not quite true (3.00 / 5) (#30)
by aphrael on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:28:02 PM EST

one of the big problems has been newly created accounts that exist only to post abusive gibberish to the queue.

[ Parent ]
That doesn't change the essence of my complaint. (3.00 / 3) (#102)
by glor on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 05:44:35 PM EST

The good adminning fairies have kept me from seeing too much queue garbage, apart from blog spam, which I figure is inevitable from misunderstanding newcomers.  Nevertheless:

If you want to change how people act, make it easy and rewarding to do desireable things, and make it difficult and frustrating to do undesireable things.  Crapflooders and jerks have used the ease of getting multiple accounts to make it difficult and frustrating to be an admin.  You (collectively) have reacted by making it difficult and frustrating to get multiple accounts.  Fine.  I think it was a mistake for you to use a sledgehammer.  In particular, asking a price for the privelege of trial by fire in K5's queue is far more likely to deter interesting potential members than polluters (I PAID MY $5 PUBLISH MY AD).

The reason K5 has few stories and lots of trash is because the threshold for posting stories is high, and the threshold for posting trash is low.  An entry fee makes the one harder without making the other easier.  Once you're in, it still makes a bigger, faster impression if you shit in the diaries than if you spend time writing something that will just tank in the queue.

--
Disclaimer: I am not the most intelligent kuron.
[ Parent ]

i dont want a subject but scoop does (3.00 / 3) (#112)
by aphrael on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 06:08:22 PM EST

make it easy and rewarding to do desireable things, and make it difficult and frustrating to do undesireable things

indeed.

crapflooders and jerks have used the ease of getting multiple accounts to make it difficult and frustrating to be an admin.  You (collectively) have reacted by making it difficult and frustrating to get multiple accounts.

fair enough.

I think it was a mistake for you to use a sledgehammer.

I think the thing is, that we're all out of ideas for how to deter the destructive behavior --- and that destructive behavior does discourage other people from doing desireable things.

I can't speak for Rusty, but I know that if I had any other ideas for how to get the real problem children to behave or go away, while not imposing costs on people who aren't problem children, I would jump at them.

But ... we've been at this for more than seven years, which is in and of itself shocking, and nothing that has been tried has worked.


[ Parent ]

spare me (3.00 / 2) (#120)
by ray eckson on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 06:43:52 PM EST

you call the continuing campaign of neglect and stagnation that is k5 adminship is 'we've tried and tried and nothing works'?

L O FUCKIN L


wampsy: hey ray why don't you start up a site. you could call it ray5.
rusty: I gotta fix that stupid cancel bug.
booger: How's that for daring to get ray eckson all sniffy, you cow?
poopy: Not that I'm gay or anything, but for you I might make an exception.
[ Parent ]

i think you're conflating two different issues. (none / 1) (#127)
by aphrael on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 07:01:54 PM EST

we have tried many different things to deter the handful of true problem children; nothing has worked.

that doesn't say anything about the perception of admin negligence. we're sort of in the position of the cia here: most of the things we've done you don't know about.

[ Parent ]

fucking lame excuse (2.00 / 5) (#139)
by dongs on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 08:16:52 PM EST

gay asshole

[ Parent ]
got any suggestions? (none / 1) (#144)
by aphrael on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 09:02:28 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Wasn't 'more moderators' floated recently? $ (3.00 / 6) (#153)
by localroger on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 09:52:36 PM EST



alexboko: I think, how do animals view our behavior?
Sgt York: Opening
[ Parent ]
sure, but they'll cost you (3.00 / 4) (#157)
by dongs on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 10:14:07 PM EST

i doubt you can afford my level of expertise in these matters

[ Parent ]
I can appreciate that. It's a hard problem ... (3.00 / 2) (#132)
by glor on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 07:13:59 PM EST

... made harder by the sub-community of people who find poking at you entertaining.  The ideas that occur to me would just be games for those people to play.  I think the paywall will keep the dupe armies at bay, and you're probably right that it's what k5 needs for a while --- that's probably a better decision than the extended "no new users" period a few years ago.  But is that the long-term plan?

When K5 worked, new users (i.e. me) found links to the stories elsewhere, got drawn into the commenting community, and eventually tried to give something back.  I wouldn't have done so if I'd had to dig out any money, and I would have missed out.  This should be a free trajectory to full membership, even if it doesn't open up for a couple of months, and even if the paywall seems successful.

--
Disclaimer: I am not the most intelligent kuron.
[ Parent ]

doesn't work son (3.00 / 2) (#80)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 04:12:51 PM EST

tragedy of the commons and all that. most people here are self-important trolls. but it is only 1 or 2 out of hundreds of us that were jizzing enough destructive energies to ruin it for all of us

meritocracy would work if they could solve dupes once and for all

but its a hard problem

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

pay-or-publish solves new dupes. (none / 1) (#104)
by glor on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 05:49:03 PM EST

Old dupes that cause trouble will eventually get complained about and knocked off.  I get the impression that there's been lots of dupe-wiping in the past few months already.

Old dupes that don't cause trouble --- who cares?

--
Disclaimer: I am not the most intelligent kuron.
[ Parent ]

sounds mighty defensive mr. "glor"... (none / 1) (#118)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 06:39:40 PM EST

or should i say, mr. HUNGFUTURMERICBALDRSON!!!

hmmmm?


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

I thought you were those people. (3.00 / 2) (#126)
by glor on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 06:58:31 PM EST

Maybe I'm you?  I'm confused.  You're confused.  Something.

--
Disclaimer: I am not the most intelligent kuron.
[ Parent ]

4 bears, pi fish. (3.00 / 2) (#202)
by The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 10:49:12 AM EST



___
I'm a pompous windbag, I take myself far too seriously, and I single-handedly messed up K5 by causing the fiction section to be created. --localroger

[ Parent ]
And where's my feature set? (2.33 / 3) (#18)
by MotorMachineMercenary on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:17:49 PM EST

No spelling check, no warn button anywhere (never had that), no diary watch-list. I feel like a gay gypsy in a WWII Warsaw ghetto.

And I still can't rate comments, although I don't want to as that's yet another waste of time.

--
It's hard to be humble when even Mr Bigballs rates me as #1 Kuro5hit.


STOP USING LYNX, DUMBASS [NT] (none / 1) (#22)
by insomnyuk on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:20:03 PM EST



---
"There is only one honest impulse at the bottom of Puritanism, and that is the impulse to punish the man with a superior capacity for happiness." - H.L. Mencken
[ Parent ]
I don't use communist software (3.00 / 3) (#29)
by MotorMachineMercenary on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:26:41 PM EST

The features are missing in both FF (what I use normally) and IE (just checked for your edification).

--
It's hard to be humble when even Mr Bigballs rates me as #1 Kuro5hit.


[ Parent ]
Lynx is commie but FF is not? ~ (none / 1) (#110)
by thugsonfilm on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 06:04:02 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Don't get pedantic on me /nt (3.00 / 2) (#185)
by MotorMachineMercenary on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 02:18:56 AM EST


--
It's hard to be humble when even Mr Bigballs rates me as #1 Kuro5hit.


[ Parent ]
mu (2.14 / 7) (#25)
by Nimey on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:25:32 PM EST

I feel like a gay gypsy in a WWII Warsaw ghetto.
But where are you going to find one at this hour?
--
Never mind, it was just the dog cumming -- jandev
You Sir, are an Ignorant Motherfucker. -- Crawford
I am arguably too manic to do that. -- Crawford
I already fuck my mother -- trane
Nimey is right -- Blastard
i am in complete agreement with Nimey -- i am a pretty big deal

[ Parent ]
WALLED GHETTO certainly did recall warsaw (3.00 / 4) (#28)
by insomnyuk on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:26:24 PM EST

Perhaps someone should register war5aw.org and start a dupe friendly k5 mashup site.

---
"There is only one honest impulse at the bottom of Puritanism, and that is the impulse to punish the man with a superior capacity for happiness." - H.L. Mencken
[ Parent ]
There you go (3.00 / 3) (#37)
by rusty on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:43:14 PM EST

And sin no more with the ratings, whatever it was you did before.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
MY EYES! (3.00 / 2) (#40)
by MotorMachineMercenary on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:47:58 PM EST

They work now. Thanks.

The ranking debacle was years (years) ago. I threatened to mod bomb somebody to 3 (think it was 5 at the time). Yes, mod bomb them up. That's why I got my voting privileges revoked. So no worries. Unless you're worried about me posting diaries about my nether parts, which will continue with abandon.

--
It's hard to be humble when even Mr Bigballs rates me as #1 Kuro5hit.


[ Parent ]
Please (3.00 / 5) (#41)
by rusty on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:50:25 PM EST

Feel free to continue abandoning your nether parts. Or whatever.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
So you have crippled accounts (none / 1) (#111)
by thugsonfilm on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 06:08:02 PM EST

but no idea why they are that way or who crippled them?

Are you going to take a similarly cavalier approach to your new "more warnings fewer bans" approach?

I've gotten warned twice by some nameless person and there is no reference (e.g. an email) indicating what it was for, or what admin wrote it up, etc.

You are giving lip service to improvements but I don't see anything that suggests any real changes are going to be made. Except demanding money that is.


[ Parent ]

shenaningans. (3.00 / 2) (#130)
by aphrael on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 07:08:13 PM EST

  1. the warning system doesn't tell you which admin warned you, true. but we can see it.

  2. aside from the fact that i've edited out the admin's name, this is the warning record i see for you. note that it does, in fact, tell you what it was for.

----------------------------------
Warned by $admin on 2007-09-04 13:33:35:
Rather than three or four wikipedia copy-pastes in a row, please combine them into one diary.

You know all this. Why be this way?
Acknowledged 2007-09-04 13:34:24

Warned by $admin on 2007-09-02 21:39:34:
Please to be not posting stuff like http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2007/9/1/212549/9578
Acknowledged 2007-09-02 21:42:06

[ Parent ]

the link in question (none / 1) (#131)
by aphrael on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 07:10:33 PM EST

is a diary consisting solely of the string     123456789012345678901234567890 repeatedly for more than half a page.

[ Parent ]
he was asking for a ban (3.00 / 1) (#135)
by ray eckson on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 07:28:21 PM EST

and you guys didn't give it to him.


wampsy: hey ray why don't you start up a site. you could call it ray5.
rusty: I gotta fix that stupid cancel bug.
booger: How's that for daring to get ray eckson all sniffy, you cow?
poopy: Not that I'm gay or anything, but for you I might make an exception.
[ Parent ]
There is no rule that is said to be (none / 1) (#136)
by thugsonfilm on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 07:32:39 PM EST

violated.

Copying from wikipedia is not prohibited, neither is posting 3 diaries prohibited. I posted a fourth diary after you deleted my first one, so I was not in violation of the "max per day" rule.

There were not, in fact, "3-4" copy-pastes in a row. There were 2. The first was simply 1419 all throughout it. You deleted that one with no warning.

I have no copy of the warning, and I have no recollection of who this 'admin' is. If you are going to revoke my now worth $5 account can't you be bothered to email me a copy of this violation?

That you couldn't recall why MMM had his account ratings disabled I found troubling.

WRT the complaint, I am guessing it was for "page widening". Well posts can't be edited or revoked so that was an accident (I had it on preview, made a change and hit post instead of preview again iirc).

However, where is page widening prohibited? The 'complaint' is to multiple postings, wiki-pasting, and simply "stuff like ...." ?

This is not spam (which you have prohibited albeit poorly definte) nor is it excessive posting, abuse, etc.

no warning was warranted


[ Parent ]

Those were both me (3.00 / 2) (#141)
by rusty on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 08:54:20 PM EST

And see, there you're lawyering. I gave you warnings to let you know that those two things you did were annoying. I can see you have trouble with general rules, but that's why we're here to help.

While we're mentioning it, the random-character tag thing is annoying too. And being annoying is abuse, if you do it persistently enough. And so is excessive lawyering, so please stop that right away.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

First, we anonymize all the lawyers... (none / 1) (#143)
by localroger on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 09:02:12 PM EST

...works for me.

alexboko: I think, how do animals view our behavior?
Sgt York: Opening
[ Parent ]
as a laywer-in-training (none / 1) (#146)
by aphrael on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 09:07:41 PM EST

i protest.

[ Parent ]
Hey, I wouldn't complain (none / 1) (#150)
by localroger on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 09:47:57 PM EST

I bet it costs more than five bucks to undo failing the bar exam.

alexboko: I think, how do animals view our behavior?
Sgt York: Opening
[ Parent ]
Actual lawyers... (3.00 / 3) (#154)
by rusty on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 10:09:42 PM EST

...get paid for doing it. I was amused to come across the term "sea lawyer" in various book set in the 18th century(ish) British navy. It has such a perfect correspondence with the current "forum laywer" -- that guy who always tries to parse and argue the exact letter of the rules no matter what. And, of course, is just about the opposite from what an actual lawyer does.


____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
sea lawyer (none / 1) (#162)
by aphrael on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 10:56:46 PM EST

that's awesome. :)

[ Parent ]
So I am just suppose to intuit what you find (none / 1) (#155)
by thugsonfilm on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 10:10:33 PM EST

annoying and not do it?

I am not supposed to argue with arbitrary post-hoc rules because that's "lawyering"?

If you'll notice I haven't posted any random tags in this days round of diaries. So you're now warning me about stuff I've done in the past just in case?

How many 'warnings' does a ban make? You've given me two warnings, and if I count the warnings you've made just now about lawyering and random tags that makes four.

Are you going to ban me now?

You've got no metric, no rules. This is exactly my point about trusting you with a $5 membership. You like to pretend you're all fair and tolerant, but in fact you're sloppy and arbitrary. Don't be sloppy and arbitrary.

[ Parent ]

Sea lawyer (3.00 / 3) (#159)
by rusty on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 10:23:26 PM EST

None of that was non-obvious, no one else here would find it so, and neither do you. Thank you for not using the random tags. That wasn't a warning (no record) just a comment from me to you, in a spirit of constructive guidance.

No, there is no metric. This isn't fucking math. No one wants to be bogged down in exhaustive lists of what is ok and what isn't. And you're nowhere near banning. Not to even mention you didn't pay anything for this to begin with.

I'm sorry you find it sloppy and arbitrary, but that's the way life is. And really, enough with the lawyering. Sheesh.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

Fair enough (3.00 / 2) (#160)
by thugsonfilm on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 10:26:34 PM EST

I found a random phrase generator I like better for my tags anyway.

If there is no metric then are you going to publicize anywhere why anyone is banned? After all once someone loses their account they can't post a diary about why they lost it....

This has been a complaint of many others. It's not my complaint but it points to the issue of transparency.

[ Parent ]

I've had this fight with rusty before (none / 0) (#213)
by ray eckson on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 12:33:40 PM EST

basically, the rule is 'don't get caught'.

if you do stuff that is obvious, you'll get canned.

now if you subtly page-widened the tags page over the course of several weeks, I doubt anyone would care enough to notice.  but doing it with three diaries a day, every day, will get noticed.

rusty et.al. only really care about warnings.  right now rusty is paying attention, but he'll stop again rather soon (parenthood).  Then you'll be back to playing dodge-em with mh/aph/etc.


wampsy: hey ray why don't you start up a site. you could call it ray5.
rusty: I gotta fix that stupid cancel bug.
booger: How's that for daring to get ray eckson all sniffy, you cow?
poopy: Not that I'm gay or anything, but for you I might make an exception.
[ Parent ]

the rule is (none / 0) (#218)
by aphrael on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 01:07:36 PM EST

behave like you'd behave if you were hanging out with a bunch of friends. don't be obnoxious or annoying.

why is this so hard to grasp?

[ Parent ]

But what about (3.00 / 2) (#219)
by Cro Magnon on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 01:21:32 PM EST

the people who are obnoxious and annoying with their friends?
Information wants to be beer.
[ Parent ]
yeah, there is that. (3.00 / 2) (#220)
by aphrael on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 01:31:28 PM EST



[ Parent ]
that only works if the admins maintain (none / 1) (#221)
by rhiannon on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 01:35:22 PM EST

some degree of impartialness

-----------------------------------------
I continued to rebuff the advances... so many advances... of so many attractive women. -MC
[ Parent ]
An excellent point ~ (none / 0) (#225)
by thugsonfilm on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 02:22:20 PM EST



[ Parent ]
yeah, because friends (3.00 / 2) (#224)
by LilDebbie on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 02:16:13 PM EST

call each other "fags" and "niggers" all the time.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
You mean the way that Rusty (none / 0) (#227)
by thugsonfilm on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 02:25:04 PM EST

called MMM a fag, all friendly like he would one of his friends?

[ Parent ]
some do, actually. (none / 0) (#231)
by aphrael on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 02:51:13 PM EST



[ Parent ]
my group of friends' definitions (3.00 / 3) (#228)
by ray eckson on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 02:25:58 PM EST

of obnoxious and annoying differs from yours.

whose friends win?


wampsy: hey ray why don't you start up a site. you could call it ray5.
rusty: I gotta fix that stupid cancel bug.
booger: How's that for daring to get ray eckson all sniffy, you cow?
poopy: Not that I'm gay or anything, but for you I might make an exception.
[ Parent ]

no where near banning? (none / 0) (#249)
by rhiannon on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 11:55:37 PM EST

That sucks, it's obvious he's gaming the system, like a little brother tip-toeing his fingers across "The Line" during a long road trip. He's just trying to push buttons.

Why isn't the random tag thing a ban worthy offense?  It does nothing but make tags harder to use.

-----------------------------------------
I continued to rebuff the advances... so many advances... of so many attractive women. -MC
[ Parent ]

Are you autistic? (none / 1) (#205)
by Just this guy on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 12:16:41 PM EST

Or is it just your persona?

[ Parent ]
I think you are pissing on yourself again (none / 1) (#216)
by thugsonfilm on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 12:48:37 PM EST


http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2007/9/4/195520/4562

[ Parent ]
Actually, and since you mention it, (none / 1) (#222)
by Just this guy on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 02:00:10 PM EST

I just completely a fully successful urinary escapade.

[ Parent ]
grammar check pls ~ (none / 0) (#223)
by thugsonfilm on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 02:01:53 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Yep, it's wrong, I checked. (none / 1) (#229)
by Just this guy on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 02:35:50 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Fair enough ~ (none / 0) (#230)
by thugsonfilm on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 02:37:12 PM EST



[ Parent ]
i find it hard to fathom (3.00 / 6) (#142)
by aphrael on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 09:01:50 PM EST

how you can claim that a diary consisting solely of 124567890 repeated endlessly isn't spam.

i'd think that would be fairly obvious, yo.

[ Parent ]

Wow, excellent point (3.00 / 3) (#151)
by localroger on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 09:50:21 PM EST

The whole origin of "spam" from the Monty Python skit wasn't just that it's advertising, it's that it's the same boring thing over and over and over and over and over and over again. Of course too much advertising creates that impression, but so do a lot of the non-advertising recent antics here.

alexboko: I think, how do animals view our behavior?
Sgt York: Opening
[ Parent ]
Spam is UCE (2.00 / 2) (#156)
by thugsonfilm on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 10:14:05 PM EST

unsolicited commercial email.

I don't know what planet you're from.

There is no rule against posting something over and over again. Over again. Over and over. Again. Is that 'spam'?

When people get their shit voted down and they place it in the diary section is that "spamming" since it's a repetition of the same crap that got shot down?

How many times, or reps, is "spam" in this vague definition of yours?

Oh wait! I'm "lawyering" now.... that's abuse isn't it?

[ Parent ]

spam (3.00 / 3) (#161)
by aphrael on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 10:50:29 PM EST

isn't just the commercial variety.

if i emailed you the contents of the dictionary, one word at a time, it would be spam.

i'm old enough to have learned that as canonical example of spam, in fact.

[ Parent ]

I have never heard of this called 'spam' (none / 1) (#166)
by thugsonfilm on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 11:21:46 PM EST

perhaps you are just more old skool than I am. I dunno.

On a site like k5 with no definitive subject matter or theme, and a section like the d-1ary section where there is "no rules except one" I cannot see how the endless supply of rambling diaries (e.g. my parrot died, I just made pickles, I AM FEKLAAR, Horsecock) does not meet your self same definition.

All repetitive posting to the d-1ary section is spam, by your measure. And it need not be identically repetitive, merely multiple postings (e.g. any two or more consecutive posts).

It is too broad to be meaningful. You have "banned" essentially the entire d-1ary section and every post in it.

[ Parent ]

I think Rusty said it quite well... (none / 0) (#211)
by QuickFox on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 12:30:46 PM EST

...in the article above:

No, the above is not a detailed list of allowed and prohibited behavior, but on the other hand, we aren't in kindergarten here. The longer the list of specific rules, the more time everyone spends trying to poke legal loopholes through them. I am not a lawyer. I don't expect any of you to be.

Here's a suggestion: Try to act here on K5 just like you would act IRL among friends.

Think about that for a moment. Really! For instance, if, among your RL friends, in a fit of drunkenness you spent several minutes saying 123456789, and they complained about it, would you go nitpicking about rules?

Me, I'd be embarrassed if ever I was drunk enough to do something so kindergarten.

Those who would give up essential liberty deserve Bush.
[ Parent ]

Ever heard of Usenet's Breidbart Index? (3.00 / 2) (#189)
by alba on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 03:29:26 AM EST

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breidbart_Index

Spam is defined as a threshold for the number of substantively identical postings.

[ Parent ]

Nope but there are some significant (none / 0) (#203)
by thugsonfilm on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 11:47:38 AM EST

differences in usenet and k5.

For one, usenet groups actually have a topic or subject.

comp.os.security or alt.sex.gay have subjects.

k5 "diary section" does not. The greeting to all posts in it is "this section is for anything really...."

This index then uses crossposting as a correlation to posts to groups to which they are violating the topic, since it is unlikely that an identical message will appeal to non-identical groups.

How is this at all relevant to whether I post 1419 a bazillion times in my diary?

Feel free to run your index on my diary post and if it comes up as having passed its threshold I'll concede the point. mkay?

[ Parent ]

Are you really that dense? (none / 0) (#255)
by alba on Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 05:09:10 AM EST

In Usenet spam is defined as a threshold for the number of substantively identical postings.

This has nothing to do with the quality of postings , or whether the contents is considered on-topic.

And you completely missed the point of applying different ratings to multi-posts and cross-posts.
Cross-posts are considered less harmful than multi-posts, so you need more of them to reach the same level of evilness.

And I don't care about your fucking diary.
You claimed that spam is "unsolicited commercial email".
I showed you a different definition.
Spewing bullshit is not a defense.

[ Parent ]

hay rusty - i can't delete anonymized stories from (3.00 / 3) (#21)
by insomnyuk on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:19:28 PM EST

my hotlist. Also, now would be a very good time to allow image posting. Just some basic rules - no pr0n, no images larger than 100k, basic h x w limit (like 400x400), and only on the inside section of individual entries, like it works on dailykos. Obviously, remotely linked images would present problems, so maybe you could whitelist certain photo hosting domains like photobucket and flickr.com which have no pr0n rules (i mean, flickr allows nudity, but yeah).

---
"There is only one honest impulse at the bottom of Puritanism, and that is the impulse to punish the man with a superior capacity for happiness." - H.L. Mencken
hay rusty - do a bunch of shit for me k thx nt (none / 1) (#27)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:26:23 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
oh and RE your sig line (3.00 / 5) (#34)
by insomnyuk on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:30:45 PM EST

BUY AN AD, ASSHOLE.

---
"There is only one honest impulse at the bottom of Puritanism, and that is the impulse to punish the man with a superior capacity for happiness." - H.L. Mencken
[ Parent ]
pffffffft (2.50 / 4) (#50)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:06:24 PM EST

no need to, as long as twatstains like yourself keep responding to me, the ads, they generate themselves

now i just have to solve the small problem of NO ONE ELSE READING THIS DRIVEL EXCEPT ME AND YOU, THE USELESS TROLL FODDER

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

I read it (3.00 / 3) (#63)
by ghjm on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:39:31 PM EST

I can't unread it. I would if I could.

[ Parent ]
but did you click the link? (3.00 / 2) (#66)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:46:37 PM EST

and see my movie?

I DON'T FUCKING CARE IF IT'S NOT FINISHED YET, POOR EXCUSE! FUCK OFF!


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

I did not (3.00 / 4) (#174)
by ghjm on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 12:44:56 AM EST

I don't even see your sig any more. You've posted, what, fifty thousand comments with it? My brain has learned to skip it automatically, no conscious thought required.

You should change it to "I'm halfway finished with..." or "Click here to watch..." or anything slightly different, so people like me notice it again.

[ Parent ]

Nooooooooo (3.00 / 3) (#177)
by livus on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 01:38:26 AM EST

I am completely against image posting on k5, and not just because of goatse.

Basically I find a healthy dose of goatse a lot easier to take than some of those trite image sigs people get going on other sites.

---
HIREZ substitute.
be concrete asshole, or shut up. - CTS
I guess I skipped school or something to drink on the internet? - lonelyhobo
I'd like to hope that any impression you got about us from internet forums was incorrect. - debillitatus
I consider myself trolled more or less just by visiting the site. HollyHopDrive

[ Parent ]

Yes but what good is a rainbow (2.71 / 7) (#35)
by DK4 Bloo on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:38:14 PM EST

in the land of escalators?

+1 FP, "high-spirited stupidity" (2.50 / 4) (#38)
by United Fools on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:44:25 PM EST

:-)

We are united, we are fools, and we are America!
Suggestion - allow people to purchase back (3.00 / 7) (#42)
by xC0000005 on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:52:59 PM EST

anonmized accounts. There are individuals who cross the troll line and then reform. For many the attachment to a particular user name might form a drive to moderate their impulses, at, say, a certain cost.

Voice of the Hive - Beekeeping and Bees for those who don't
Hm (3.00 / 6) (#45)
by rusty on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:59:00 PM EST

One of the reasons I banned people in the past, even though they could just come right back, was basically to break the username continuity. Having a well known nickname sometimes served as an incentive to keep being an asshole, because they got more attention as a known person than some new nickname would. So I'm not real keen on enabling that sort of thing going forward.

Do you have someone in mind? I'm willing to consider it on a per-case basis, I guess.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

No single person. Just saying that the same (none / 1) (#46)
by xC0000005 on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:03:14 PM EST

factor you list as driving you to ban people can be even more effective. I agree - user name continuity is a valued thing in communities. (I've been using this one for over a decade at various sites). I'm just saying that an anonymized user who wants to "re-pay" and join, at an ever increasing cost might make you a few bucks from those who desire their "old" user names back. And the cost, even at your minimal barrier to entry, serves more as an attachment. Then again, you'd have people who want you to merge old account and new account.

Voice of the Hive - Beekeeping and Bees for those who don't
[ Parent ]
Hey (3.00 / 2) (#49)
by rusty on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:04:49 PM EST

Incidentally, what the hell does your username mean?

And also, if I ever get wine bottles, some cider is coming your way. And I have to bottle it soon because I need the carboys for this year's juice.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

It's the exception code for an Access Violation. (3.00 / 6) (#52)
by xC0000005 on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:11:30 PM EST

under 32 bit Windows, you interpret the result by taking the top bits (0x8 for a "error", 0xC for an exception), a zero facility portion and the rest is the error code.

5 is "Access is Denied." usually meaning that someone read to or wrote to the first or last 64k of memory (though low-frag heaps certainly raise the chance of it elsewhere).

Voice of the Hive - Beekeeping and Bees for those who don't
[ Parent ]

I did not know that (none / 1) (#54)
by rusty on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:25:57 PM EST

dork. :-)

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
HAHA YOU USE WINDOWS (2.33 / 6) (#94)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 05:16:11 PM EST

(said the c# programmer, feigning retarded fanboy linux zealotry)


The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
I do more than that. (none / 1) (#134)
by xC0000005 on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 07:15:09 PM EST

Said the C++, C#, Assembler, JS, and more programmer.

Voice of the Hive - Beekeeping and Bees for those who don't
[ Parent ]
WHAT, NO RUBY? (3.00 / 3) (#137)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 07:32:56 PM EST

WHAT A NOOB

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
That's funny (none / 1) (#113)
by ksandstr on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 06:13:39 PM EST

I thought it was a m68k processor exception code rendered with some long-dead hexadecimal prefix. One of the rarer ones, not illegal instruction or address error. Used to see these all the time with the Amiga, in the magic bits part of a guru meditation.

Fin.
[ Parent ]
Guru Meditation - I had an early (none / 1) (#133)
by xC0000005 on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 07:14:03 PM EST

Amiga (with wire wrapped bits inside).

Voice of the Hive - Beekeeping and Bees for those who don't
[ Parent ]
let's call it an amnesty program, establish a few (none / 1) (#64)
by insomnyuk on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:41:04 PM EST

rules, and let existing active users VOTE whether or not the user can come back, with the proviso that they pay the $5 fee to register just like anyone else. I think that would be fair, otherwise I would just register Dupe Account 2.0 if I really was enamoured of a particular username.

---
"There is only one honest impulse at the bottom of Puritanism, and that is the impulse to punish the man with a superior capacity for happiness." - H.L. Mencken
[ Parent ]
Maybe (3.00 / 4) (#91)
by Sgt York on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 05:08:32 PM EST

do it on a scale, so people who have a bad day and screw up will be OK, but dedicated assholes just make you rich. $5 for 1st account, $10 for 2nd account w/ same name, then $20, $40, $80. That way, we could all just laugh at them.

It would be nice to see some K5-classics come back.

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.
[ Parent ]

Regardless of the fact that (none / 0) (#208)
by daveybaby on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 12:19:17 PM EST

i posted the exact same thing an entire day after you did, i still thought of it first and you copied it off me, okay?

[ Parent ]
As long as (3.00 / 2) (#214)
by Sgt York on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 12:33:42 PM EST

I get a cut of the profits, it's all good.

There is a reason for everything. Sometimes, that reason just sucks.
[ Parent ]

MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEME (none / 1) (#122)
by ray eckson on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 06:46:05 PM EST

on second thought, forget it


wampsy: hey ray why don't you start up a site. you could call it ray5.
rusty: I gotta fix that stupid cancel bug.
booger: How's that for daring to get ray eckson all sniffy, you cow?
poopy: Not that I'm gay or anything, but for you I might make an exception.
[ Parent ]
Can I buy someone else's username? (3.00 / 4) (#176)
by ensignyu on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 01:38:03 AM EST

You could auction infamous usernames off to the highest bidder.

[ Parent ]
How about this? (3.00 / 3) (#206)
by daveybaby on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 12:16:43 PM EST

To buy a new account costs 5$

The first time youre anonymised it costs $10 to buy the username back.

The next time it costs $20.

Then $40.

And so on up to infinity. Rusty, you'll be rich beyond your wildest dreams!

[ Parent ]

YUO >>> IRC (none / 0) (#215)
by ray eckson on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 12:41:43 PM EST

PLZ THX


wampsy: hey ray why don't you start up a site. you could call it ray5.
rusty: I gotta fix that stupid cancel bug.
booger: How's that for daring to get ray eckson all sniffy, you cow?
poopy: Not that I'm gay or anything, but for you I might make an exception.
[ Parent ]
Tex Bigballs {[nt (3.00 / 2) (#241)
by Stick Apart on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 09:01:06 PM EST


-------
> "I think it could easily be around 200 million people dead because of gun control." - V

SUPPORT A TEXT-FRIENDLY INTERNET
[ Parent ]

thanks rusty (3.00 / 2) (#43)
by zombie Colonel Kurtz on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 02:58:20 PM EST

just take it easy on us OCD types and at least give a warning or two before banning. you could cut off the oxygen real easy if you go ballistic.


while you're at it i'd suggest (2.00 / 5) (#55)
by balsamic vinigga on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:27:25 PM EST

whiping the slate clean for our anonymized accounts as well. I'd like to sell them on ebay for a dollar each. well, nycmilanochick17 would fetch 2 bucks i'm sure!

Also, you should add to your rules to community accounts like superawesome. It's not obvious that's prohibited from your rough guidelines.

---
Please help fund a Filipino Horror Movie. It's been in limbo since 2007 due to lack of funding. Please donate today!

Wait (3.00 / 2) (#67)
by ghjm on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:46:59 PM EST

What exactly are "posting rights?" Does this mean you can't submit to the queue without paying, or that you can't even write a comment? What about diaries?

Yes (none / 1) (#71)
by rusty on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 03:54:47 PM EST

There is no posting until you pay the fee.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
don't forget to pay your $5 posting fee (2.33 / 12) (#76)
by dongs on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 04:04:14 PM EST

you cock-smoking teabaggers

tea-smoking cockbaggers has a better ring nt (2.33 / 3) (#93)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 05:14:36 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
BUY AN AD (2.00 / 2) (#83)
by truth rhesus death on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 04:25:09 PM EST

That's what my fortune cookie said, and I think it's sound advice.

rusty on the readership: You're wicked retarded, and you talk like a fag.

rusty, I e-mailed you! (1.75 / 4) (#84)
by LilDebbie Lover on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 04:28:25 PM EST

Yesterday but I did not get a reply.  I was wondering what the policy was on those that wanted a account before you made this decision.  Maybe wou should make some people who have been here a while and are in good faith admins.  In particular, LilDebbie is a great candidate.  Thanks for everything, rusty!  This truly is a great site content wise.

Signature of Disutility:
* Jedi Warrior Betrayal
* Emo Jedi Warrior Betrayal
* Betrayal of Aalya Secura
* Death of Spartan 117
* Enslavement of Man
* Humanity's Destruction
* Rise of the Horde

Also:
* "ALL I REQUIRE IS A PURPLE MARKER" ~LilDebbie
* "I'm straight but I like having sex with men" ~xC0000005
And so it begins....$ (2.00 / 2) (#86)
by V on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 04:43:15 PM EST


---
What my fans are saying:
"That, and the fact that V is a total, utter scumbag." VZAMaZ.
"well look up little troll" cts.
"I think you're a worthless little cuntmonkey but you made me lol, so I sigged you." re
"goodness gracious you're an idiot" mariahkillschickens
more like ends (3.00 / 4) (#88)
by dongs on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 04:50:52 PM EST



[ Parent ]
I mean, the beginning of the end.$ (none / 1) (#101)
by V on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 05:38:48 PM EST


---
What my fans are saying:
"That, and the fact that V is a total, utter scumbag." VZAMaZ.
"well look up little troll" cts.
"I think you're a worthless little cuntmonkey but you made me lol, so I sigged you." re
"goodness gracious you're an idiot" mariahkillschickens
[ Parent ]
more like ending (3.00 / 3) (#121)
by dongs on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 06:44:29 PM EST



[ Parent ]
This isn't so bad now, (3.00 / 3) (#92)
by Josh Smith II on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 05:12:19 PM EST

since you included subscriber features. Have you thought of adding any further features to K5? Hell if you even just had a list of code that would be accepted, I think you might find some willing submissions.

As it is though, I can't be bothered to piss around with Scoop and write up a feature that I'd likely have to argue into existence, or give to Husi (which would be totally gay).

While K5's undergoing this renaissance, why not take it to the next level? Post up some sort of featurelist, or hell, create a diary where we can post our own and know you'll actually read the damned thing. A lot of the trolls here aren't idiots, they're just trolling because it's the thing to do.

Take this as an opportunity to clean shit up and maybe we can restore K5 to its former glory.

P.S.  Also add K5 and Husi to the spellchecker.

-- Josh Smith recommends you take a hulver hike.

So, (none / 1) (#98)
by creature on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 05:32:48 PM EST

Let's say I get anonymised, but can pay to get a new account. Can I get my old account name back for a low, low payment of 5 bucks?

And I said it earlier but I'll say it again: welcome to K$5! (Or K5$)

(Seriously, though, thanks for the spellcheck).

Yey! (3.00 / 3) (#99)
by boxed on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 05:36:18 PM EST

Solving the crapflooding and votebombing issues has always seemed to be the major thing with k5. Look at the bot attack against localrogers Passages part 2 for example.

Oh, and rusty, have you or any other moderator looked at all those ghosts accounts and done anything about them? Because otherwise you've just grandfathered in a botnet into k5 at the same time.

Seriously rusty. (1.71 / 7) (#103)
by V on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 05:48:14 PM EST

Why don't you just shut down K5?

Maybe then we'll be able to move on with our lives. Some will go to 4chan, SA, fark, husi, other will be back groveling to /. too.

You are like the high school girlfriend that breaks up with you but hints that she still loves you. Your love dies a slow death while trying to win her back.

We have been watching K5 die for a long time now. The golden years are long gone.

Please, just euthanize it already.

V.
---
What my fans are saying:
"That, and the fact that V is a total, utter scumbag." VZAMaZ.
"well look up little troll" cts.
"I think you're a worthless little cuntmonkey but you made me lol, so I sigged you." re
"goodness gracious you're an idiot" mariahkillschickens

euthanize yourself (2.85 / 7) (#129)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 07:05:16 PM EST

it's the only way

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
alright (none / 1) (#105)
by blackbart on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 05:49:45 PM EST

the untraceable money order, I like this because I would pay $5 a head to dupe up some hoards. On the other hand, this will probably make you put a field in the user record "paid by anon money order."

Anyways, will be an interesting time for k5.

"I use this dupe for modbombing and impersonating a highly paid government worker"
- army of phred

You best be wearing some gloves during all times (none / 0) (#242)
by Stick Apart on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 09:06:18 PM EST

you're handling said money order / envelope on your end of the bargain...
-------
> "I think it could easily be around 200 million people dead because of gun control." - V

SUPPORT A TEXT-FRIENDLY INTERNET
[ Parent ]

I'm not going to cause that much trouble (none / 1) (#246)
by blackbart on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 10:34:41 PM EST

maybe be rude and get banned, but thats about it. If I didn't enjoy k5, I wouldn't waste so much lifespan here, unlike some sad cases.

C'mon, its a web page for petes sake.

"I use this dupe for modbombing and impersonating a highly paid government worker"
- army of phred
[ Parent ]

INTERNETS SERIOUS BUSINESS {[nt (none / 0) (#250)
by Stick Apart on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 11:57:43 PM EST


-------
> "I think it could easily be around 200 million people dead because of gun control." - V

SUPPORT A TEXT-FRIENDLY INTERNET
[ Parent ]

Ooh, ooh! Can we get finder's fees? (3.00 / 11) (#106)
by creature on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 05:55:11 PM EST

I want a link at the end of the diaries and stories that says something like "Want to respond? Sign up now!". That way, if I make someone so incensed that they pony up $5.00, I get a slice of the action. It's only fair.

This is actually a really good idea (none / 0) (#256)
by thefirelane on Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 06:37:01 AM EST

Rusty, could you take this seriously please? It is a really easy way to reward stories and authors which generate content and discussion.

-
Prube.com: Like K5, but with less point.
[ Parent ]
Localroger could've retired on FNH. /nt (none / 0) (#258)
by creature on Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 08:29:31 AM EST



[ Parent ]
... if he'd written it? (3.00 / 2) (#260)
by glor on Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 02:43:42 PM EST


--
Disclaimer: I am not the most intelligent kuron.
[ Parent ]

Yeah, the original wasn't me (none / 0) (#262)
by localroger on Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 06:12:16 PM EST

It was gdb. I wrote NHFL which kind of went down in metawanking flames.

alexboko: I think, how do animals view our behavior?
Sgt York: Opening
[ Parent ]
Well, yeah. (none / 0) (#267)
by creature on Thu Sep 13, 2007 at 04:55:58 AM EST

But don't cloud my assertions with facts.

[ Parent ]
Congratulations to us all- (2.00 / 2) (#107)
by nononoitaintmebabe on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 05:59:38 PM EST

well all of us grandparented in.  we're grandparents!  and really, it's so much better than being a parent.  

I'm old enough to BE a grandparent (1.50 / 1) (#108)
by Cro Magnon on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 06:01:49 PM EST

you insensitive clod!
Information wants to be beer.
[ Parent ]
well i am a (none / 1) (#109)
by nononoitaintmebabe on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 06:02:32 PM EST

grandparent. actually. so get over it.

[ Parent ]
so you're sort of a (2.00 / 4) (#128)
by circletimessquare on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 07:04:28 PM EST

cro magnon?

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
Well isn't that just fucking nice (3.00 / 6) (#115)
by ksandstr on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 06:17:57 PM EST

Just so we're clear on one thing: does, or does not, calling hulver an unclefucker in between the lines to his face in a diary lamenting his dead brother-of-parent merit a ban? Because that was one of the funniest single moments of K5 history, and I'd hate to see anyone else get "stick'd".

Fin.
lol (3.00 / 2) (#182)
by osm on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 02:04:28 AM EST

hulver

--------
4thelulz.org
[ Parent ]

Y HELO THAR (none / 1) (#193)
by spiralx on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 07:42:59 AM EST

You good?

You're doomed, I'm doomed, we're all doomed for ice cream. - Bob Aboey
[ Parent ]

greetings, sir (none / 0) (#251)
by osm on Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 12:08:36 AM EST

i'm fine, and you?

--------
4thelulz.org
[ Parent ]

i see you came back to 3 my first cocks (3.00 / 2) (#252)
by Linux or FreeBSD on Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 01:50:12 AM EST

thanks

[ Parent ]
LINK, PLS $ (none / 0) (#268)
by MisterJiffy on Thu Sep 13, 2007 at 07:02:08 AM EST



[ Parent ]
YAY CLEAN SLATE (1.60 / 5) (#116)
by zombie HollyHopDrive on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 06:23:41 PM EST

and plus all you fucking cock-wangles have to be nice to me for fear of being baninated. The coolest bit is all my previously worthless dupes now have combined value of ~$100. See I told you guys not to misbehave and get anonymised. I'm arguably now the richest person on the island. Now I just have to wait for the $K5 dollar to firm.



[He blew]inside..m..e.. [and verily] corrected a deviated septum and cauterized my turbinates. - MichaelCrawford
I wonder how inflatinary pressures (none / 1) (#124)
by Del Griffith on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 06:56:36 PM EST

will change this value... Not to mention if rusty opens the gates it'll devaulue the DUPE.

Great.  This place is now like there.com.

-------
I...I like me. My wife likes me. My customers like me. Because I'm the real article. What you see is what you get. - Me


[ Parent ]

Die In A Fire $ (3.00 / 2) (#145)
by skyknight on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 09:03:25 PM EST



It's not much fun at the top. I envy the common people, their hearty meals and Bruce Springsteen and voting. --SIGNOR SPAGHETTI
[ Parent ]
To answer your proposal: (none / 1) (#164)
by BottleRocket on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 11:10:46 PM EST

No wai that's what I use to post all my amazing great ideas with

but we might be able to work out a deal like horseskin spacesuit for Egil Skallagrimsons Mother, if you're interested

$ . . . . . $ . . . . . $ . . . . . $
. ₩ . . . . . ¥ . . . . . € . . . . . § . . . . . £
. . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . *
$ . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $
Yes I do download [child pornography], but I don't keep it any longer than I need to, so it can yield insight as to how to find more. --MDC
$ . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $
. . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . * . . . . . *
. ₩ . . . . . ¥ . . . . . € . . . . . § . . . . . £
$ . . . . . $ . . . . . $ . . . . . $
$B R Σ III$

[ Parent ]

still here (1.50 / 2) (#123)
by ray eckson on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 06:47:38 PM EST




wampsy: hey ray why don't you start up a site. you could call it ray5.
rusty: I gotta fix that stupid cancel bug.
booger: How's that for daring to get ray eckson all sniffy, you cow?
poopy: Not that I'm gay or anything, but for you I might make an exception.
works for metafilter nt (3.00 / 4) (#138)
by buford on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 07:50:20 PM EST



if a man zeros you, he is a spastic with the scroll wheel, and should be pitied.
I have approx 20 dupes for sale /nt (2.57 / 14) (#140)
by achievingfluidity on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 08:22:52 PM EST


--
ANNOY A LIBERAL USE FACTS AND LOGIC


I am cautiously optimistic. $ (3.00 / 5) (#148)
by skyknight on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 09:13:09 PM EST



It's not much fun at the top. I envy the common people, their hearty meals and Bruce Springsteen and voting. --SIGNOR SPAGHETTI
Huh. (3.00 / 4) (#149)
by delmoi on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 09:39:27 PM EST

Looks like I can still post.
--
"'argumentation' is not a word, idiot." -- thelizman
i get it now - you used to spam your inane, tired (none / 1) (#187)
by insomnyuk on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 02:23:06 AM EST

bullshit here, and then you moved on to MeFi where you didn't have a rep yet. Well you made short work of that advantageous situation. Welcome back, but don't expect to be talking into the same echo chamber, pal.

---
"There is only one honest impulse at the bottom of Puritanism, and that is the impulse to punish the man with a superior capacity for happiness." - H.L. Mencken
[ Parent ]
Last Post (1.50 / 4) (#152)
by dissonant on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 09:50:25 PM EST

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

It was fun while it lasted.

Guess I'll go see if Husi is worth reading.

I'll miss you! (3.00 / 2) (#209)
by Just this guy on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 12:20:26 PM EST

No, wait, the other one.

Don't let the horsecock fuck you in the ass on the way out the door!

[ Parent ]

I think it's a great idea. (3.00 / 4) (#158)
by redqueen on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 10:17:13 PM EST

Plus, getting something for free - even if it's only five bucks - feels fantastic.

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
If you think a free K5 account feels good (none / 1) (#269)
by creature on Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 12:28:25 PM EST

you should try it with a handjob.

[ Parent ]
Yeah, (none / 0) (#270)
by redqueen on Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 09:24:23 PM EST

I can't really do that. My concern is that if do, I'll catch some horrible virus.

Best "interesting female" (impersonator): redqueen. - sausalito
[ Parent ]
bravo! (2.83 / 6) (#163)
by cbraga on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 11:06:34 PM EST

And so K5 rejoins my list of daily visits. I'll try and think of something to write and maybe post to the queue.

ESC[78;89;13p ESC[110;121;13p
dumbest shit ever (2.53 / 15) (#165)
by swifty on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 11:18:21 PM EST

Something this dumb is usually born of arrogance. I find it laughable that anyone here would believe for a second that there is any incentive left for someone new to come along and post something meaningful and interesting enough to generate discussion (a paid privilege now). The community is now stale, period, and attrition and turnover will run their course and kill this site off for good. Who the fuck wants to create content for a mummified community?

Everyone behind this decision: you're a goddamn idiot. This has got to be the first content site ever where users are required to pay to submit (rather than consume) content that the site requires for its very survival. Even without taking dupes into account, the average discussion's aggregate uid here has always climbed higher as time has gone on. Well, no shit! People leave, new people show up, and good content ensures that there are hopefully more of the latter than the former so the site can thrive. Wow, just wow.

I would mention something about sharks and jumping at this point but whatever. If this wasn't a blindingly obvious retard move to you before, you won't get it now. This decision is just too fucking stupid to last. I'm trying to decide what's the funnier thought: rusty eating all the crow taking it all back again because no one would ever pay for the privilege of contributing to this navel gazing herd of morons, or this idea persisting until the site is well and truly dead past the point of no return.

Freiheit ist immer auch die freiheit des anderen.

BANNED! (none / 1) (#180)
by MMcP on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 02:02:26 AM EST

BANNED!

[ Parent ]
Actually, it died a long time ago (2.00 / 6) (#188)
by achievingfluidity on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 03:23:54 AM EST

YOU just didn't realize it.

--
ANNOY A LIBERAL USE FACTS AND LOGIC


[ Parent ]

I should add (3.00 / 2) (#259)
by swifty on Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 09:04:22 AM EST

that the feedback you'll get from this thread regarding your discussion will of course be overwhelmingly positively biased by the fact that of course all the people posting feel like they just joined the exclusive "in before $5" club. the vast majority of people affected, the ones who don't even know they might be interested in k5 yet, will express their displeasure by simply ignoring this site. once again: you fucking morons. the only way you could redeem this now is to reveal it as the biggest troll ever, but I'm afraid it's to imbecilic even for that.

Freiheit ist immer auch die freiheit des anderen.
[ Parent ]
This is certainly not the first site (none / 0) (#273)
by tetsuwan on Tue Sep 18, 2007 at 02:23:46 AM EST

where you have to pay to submit material.

Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
[ Parent ]

Also (3.00 / 3) (#167)
by cbraga on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 11:28:28 PM EST

How to complain about k5: a user's guide.

ESC[78;89;13p ESC[110;121;13p
The problem with 5 dollars (3.00 / 6) (#168)
by CivisHumanus on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 11:30:34 PM EST

You, and everyone else in the United States (or any other industrialized western country) may consider it chump change, just about equal to the cost of a morning latte at Starbucks, however for people in developing countries, 5 dollars is a lot of money, well, a lot more than a morning latte anyway and many more people outside the industrialized world  may find 5 dollars unaffordable.

5 dollars roughly translates to 350 Kenyan shillings, 200 Indian rupees, 40 Chinese yuan and 10 Brazilian real. You're essentially shutting people from these countries out. Not very democratic in my opinion...unless you *want* to shut out people outside the US and EU.


I think people for whom $5 is a huge barrier... (3.00 / 2) (#171)
by Psycho Dave on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 11:48:20 PM EST

probably don't have much access to computers in the first place.

And what about Americans? $5 is chump change to us, but it's even more so for Europeans, given the value of the dollar vs. the euro lately.

[ Parent ]

i think he has a good point (none / 1) (#175)
by aphrael on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 01:22:45 AM EST

there are lots of people with access to public computers for whom $5 is a big chunk of change.

[ Parent ]
Obviously the people... (3.00 / 2) (#190)
by Psycho Dave on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 04:30:00 AM EST

...who live on two-dollars a day and only get online at the Internet cafe or off one of those hundred-dollar laptops donated by an NGO are gonna have problems with paying for Kuro5hin. However, I don't think that such people represent a significant number of the users on the site that we would have lost anything we didn't have before.

I can see where some voices might get lost though. Lets say an Iraqi wants a membership to tell about his everyday experiences, or a Chinese wanted to tell about the problems with the relocations in their country (though, I somehow doubt that K5 makes it over the Great Firewall, or that the person wouldn't get arrested for trying to publish such an article). Those voices would be great to have on the site, but five US dollars would likely be prohibitively high for them.

I would say the solution would be to include a provision that if someone can't afford a membership, that they email the administration to have their fee waved. Their IP can be checked to make sure their location is legit and if the account is abusive, well, we won't make that mistake again. Since the fee is only to make it harder for crapflooders to make accounts, I think the occasional donated membership would be fine.

[ Parent ]

University students (3.00 / 2) (#192)
by CivisHumanus on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 07:04:44 AM EST

"However, I don't think that such people represent a significant number of the users on the site that we would have lost anything we didn't have before."

That's pretty presumptuous.

Internet access is free in most universities in the developing world; students are for the most part always cash strapped, yet have a lot of good ideas and a lot to say.


[ Parent ]

Like I said... (none / 1) (#248)
by Psycho Dave on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 11:14:36 PM EST

If you're from the developing world and would like to contribute but for the fact that you don't have five-bux, then petition the admins for a donated membership. Or even put up a queue where other users can donate a membership to someone in need. Price doesn't have to be a huge barrier.

I still hold though that we don't seem to have much representation from the developing world, even as a free site. I can't blame them. The only thing more useless than K5 is the Bibles missionaries hand out over there.

[ Parent ]

350 Kenyan shillings (none / 1) (#191)
by anno1602 on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 05:59:59 AM EST

5 dollars roughly translates to 350 Kenyan shillings, 200 Indian rupees, 40 Chinese yuan and 10 Brazilian real. You're essentially shutting people from these countries out.

That's like saying that 1kg of sugar roughly translates to 2lbs in the USA, and therefore, Americans are going to have a harder time lifting that weight. You convert the money, but the numbers are no indication whatsoever of how affordable that amount actually is to an average individual of the respective country. For example, USD 5 are also about 580 Yen, yet most Japanese will have no trouble paying that. For the numbers to mean anything, you have to put them into context.
--
"Where you stand on an issue depends on where you sit." - Murphy
[ Parent ]

PURCHASING POWER PARITY FTW $ (none / 1) (#226)
by LilDebbie on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 02:23:39 PM EST



My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
Prices in Brazil (none / 0) (#245)
by LodeRunner on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 10:33:23 PM EST

Click around to see what one can buy with R$ 10,00:

http://www.big.com.br/alimentar/Home.aspx
(website in Portuguese, but it's easy enough to understand from the pictures and Latin-derived words)

---
"dude, you can't even spell your own name" -- Lode Runner
[ Parent ]

Harsh as it sounds... (3.00 / 6) (#197)
by rusty on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 09:38:13 AM EST

...the only users we get from China and Nigeria are spammers. If a fee keeps them out, that's ok by me.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
thats what people say, but (none / 0) (#207)
by Morally Inflexible on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 12:17:38 PM EST

I've got a few legitimate users from china, and even one from Nigeria;  I haven't gotten complaints about them, either.  (now, there is this french dude who has "gotten hacked" twice now... suspicious)  

[ Parent ]
R$ 10 is not that much (none / 0) (#282)
by ctgPi on Mon Oct 15, 2007 at 06:14:49 PM EST

As a Brazilian, it might be worth noting that I pay R$ 70/month for my ADSL 2 Mbit connection and R$ 50/year for my credit card.

Those that can't afford the R$ 10 are hardly reading K5.

[ Parent ]

I have no problem with the new K5. (none / 1) (#169)
by Brogdel on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 11:44:48 PM EST

Thanks for letting me stay. I get real crazy here sometimes, you even called me a retard once. That's okay, bad attention is better than no attention at all. I've no interest in cider but I've been known to 'still a few gallons of brandy and 'shine. I hope your new baby is fine, I have two myself. They're the only thing that motivates me to go on sometimes.

WRITE AN ARTICLE ON STILLING ALREADY (nt) (none / 0) (#234)
by GhostOfTiber on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 04:25:24 PM EST


[Nimey's] wife's ass is my cocksheath. - undermyne
[ Parent ]

Soon.nt (none / 1) (#247)
by Brogdel on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 11:08:01 PM EST



[ Parent ]
We'll see how this goes. (3.00 / 4) (#170)
by Psycho Dave on Mon Sep 10, 2007 at 11:45:27 PM EST

I think the main problem here is gonna be attracting new members. K5 has been engaged in a whole lot of super-meta navel gazing that's inaccessible to most lurkers. If it continues (with the added $5 bar for entry) this place is gonna get barren real quick except for the usual cast of regulars.

I would suggest two tweaks to this:

1)New users can make a free account, but that account can only post comments. $5 to post diaries, stories, rate comments, and vote on the queue.

This will, of course, be open to some abuse (ala the spellcheck bot). But that's where vigilant moderation will have to come into play. Stories and diaries are where the most disruptive abuse occurs. It will, however, allow people to become part of the community at a limited level and would probably encourage more signups in the end.

2)Change the frontpage structure. All original content that survives the queue gets posted to the frontpage. Section will be a place where people can submit short-links to stories generated elsewhere (ala Fark, Digg, /. etc). If people are gonna pay for a site, then the content needs to turn over quickly. I can check anyone of the above sites every couple of hours and get new content. Sometimes, shit doesn't change here for weeks.

Also, attracting new users should always be seen as way of adding value to the community, not a revenue stream. I think that's the spirit in which this is being implemented, but should it be successful, it would be prone to abuse ala Something Awful, the North Korea of the Internet.

Some content upgrades would be nice too. Being able to imbed video and images in diaries would be nice. Again, this would require more vigilant moderation to avoid abuse, but it could make the site more attractive.

I am seriously loaded up (3.00 / 2) (#183)
by Brogdel on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 02:12:16 AM EST

on gin and XanaX, but still: +1FPsychodave. Goddamn right.

[ Parent ]
Hm (3.00 / 3) (#179)
by mcc on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 01:55:24 AM EST

Right thing to do, and very interesting. But, sorry: Three years too late, I think.

---
Aside from that, the absurd meta-wankery of k5er-quoting sigs probably takes the cake. Especially when the quote itself is about k5. -- tsubame
Could be. Could be. (none / 0) (#196)
by rusty on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 09:36:00 AM EST



____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
hope not. (none / 0) (#265)
by johnny on Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 10:41:41 PM EST



yr frn,
jrs
Get your free download of prizewinning novels Acts of the Apostles and Che
[ Parent ]
you still in san francisco? (none / 1) (#199)
by aphrael on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 10:15:10 AM EST

i'm up there every night, now. we could meet for dessert. :)

[ Parent ]
wha happen? (3.00 / 2) (#181)
by Abominable Abitur on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 02:04:06 AM EST

i were walking a round tha town when the light go black and things start shaking. i wake up then stuff is diffrent.

very nice? i find scary, this.

"Terrorism is only a viable "political activist" method for marginalized nutjobs, bottom line. The backlash that it causes makes it intractable for any reasonable ideology. Which is why you don't generally see wild athiest suicide bombers in america's streets." - lonelyhobo

hahahahahahahahahahahahahah (1.16 / 6) (#195)
by Gloria Privatus on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 09:20:12 AM EST

This site isn't worth half of SomethingAwful's forum cost. Prepare to see your site drop to zero traffic.

--
Blaine, Blaine, James G. Blaine, The Continental Liar from the State of Maine.

Neither is SomethingAwful for that matter (3.00 / 6) (#201)
by The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 10:36:48 AM EST

But when your user base is composed of mouthbreathers to the extent that calling it the bottom of the barrel is an insult to barrels, ... well then I guess it doesn't matter.

___
I'm a pompous windbag, I take myself far too seriously, and I single-handedly messed up K5 by causing the fiction section to be created. --localroger

[ Parent ]
"drop" to zero? /nt (none / 1) (#261)
by codejack on Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 04:10:12 PM EST




Please read before posting.

[ Parent ]
O RLY? (1.50 / 2) (#237)
by GhostOfSmoothie on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 07:16:39 PM EST

I consider the slate clean -- I'm going to proceed as though everyone here is a well-intentioned new user. So, welcome to K5 everyone. No one is going to be banned without any warnings.

Good - can I have my original account back, then? The one that was anonymized at MY request, with a promise (never honored) from you that it would be turned back on if requested?
--
"Happy Easter, and may all the muslims burn in hell" -- insomnyuk

Dear God, I leave for 12 hours and (none / 1) (#238)
by tweet on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 07:21:00 PM EST

K5 lives! IT LIVES!

_______________________________________________
Not everything in black and white makes sense.

I was just waiting (3.00 / 2) (#257)
by rusty on Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 08:15:25 AM EST

for you to leave for 12 hours. Took you long enough.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]
Fail. (none / 1) (#240)
by shoemaker on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 07:23:08 PM EST



Here, Here, my monocled chum! (3.00 / 4) (#243)
by nlscb on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 09:26:45 PM EST

K5 has never been the same since we let the Irish migrate to the site.

**sips tea made from the tears of children** **steers yacht into the wind**

About time we charged them properly into our great virtual land.

Comment Search has returned - Like a beaten wife, I am pathetically grateful. - mr strange

Oh, I almost didn't realize - no more zombies! (none / 1) (#244)
by nlscb on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 10:14:59 PM EST

My precious brains are feeling greatly relieved.

Comment Search has returned - Like a beaten wife, I am pathetically grateful. - mr strange
[ Parent ]

That's a shame... (2.50 / 2) (#254)
by NoMoreNicksLeft on Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 03:04:24 AM EST

Because I truly wanted to say hi to Zombie Pavorotti.

--
Do not look directly into laser with remaining good eye.
[ Parent ]
Welcome to the all new K$5 (3.00 / 6) (#253)
by ennui on Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 02:01:25 AM EST

How mucha that go to CMF?

"You can get a lot more done with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone." -- Al Capone
Yeah, that was sad (n/t) (none / 1) (#278)
by joecool12321 on Mon Sep 24, 2007 at 04:04:13 AM EST



[ Parent ]
Fuck You (1.75 / 12) (#263)
by ShiftyStoner on Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 07:05:40 PM EST


( @ )'( @ ) The broad masses of a population are more amenable to the appeal of rhetoric than to any other force. - Adolf Hitler
The First? (none / 1) (#264)
by Kansai People Are The Bestest on Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 10:34:15 PM EST

I wonder how many people have paid before me since signups started? I've been trying to become a member for weeks now.

Everything has changed ... (3.00 / 7) (#266)
by Ignore Amos on Thu Sep 13, 2007 at 03:08:30 AM EST

... in this post-9/11 world.

And that explains why airplanes carry cargo on small boats floating in their cargo aquarium. -

Holy shit (3.00 / 2) (#271)
by Kurosawa Nagaya on Sat Sep 15, 2007 at 09:49:58 AM EST

Stuff happened.

The reason for this is simple: we're all full of shit ~ circletimessquare

Bad idea (none / 1) (#272)
by jnana on Sun Sep 16, 2007 at 03:08:40 AM EST

I think charging anything to create a new account is a terrible mistake.

Anybody who thinks it's worth $5 probably didn't think that before they'd spent a lot of time here, and anybody new to k5 who sees that it costs $5 to get an account and comment will probably not hang around for too much longer. The net result will be stagnation followed by slow decline, as the "wait and see" period draws to a close and people decide that there's not much worth seeing here any more.

It seems to me that if the problem you have is that the asshole-to-admin ratio is too high, then you should create more admins. There are plenty of people who value k5 and would happily weed out the crapflooders and spellcheck bots, but none of us have the ability to do so.

If I send you some money .... (3.00 / 2) (#274)
by me0w on Wed Sep 19, 2007 at 08:59:38 AM EST

Will you send me some cookies?


Just because you are a crack whore doesn't mean we can't be friends.

cookies are free (none / 1) (#277)
by aphrael on Sun Sep 23, 2007 at 02:14:58 AM EST

to anyone with an account. :)

[ Parent ]
W000000tW0000oooOOooo (none / 1) (#279)
by me0w on Mon Sep 24, 2007 at 09:09:35 AM EST

I like cookies!


Just because you are a crack whore doesn't mean we can't be friends.
[ Parent ]

this account is for sale (none / 1) (#275)
by sllort on Wed Sep 19, 2007 at 10:12:24 PM EST

reply in this thread for bid. starts at $100.
--
Warning: On Lawn is a documented liar.
What? (none / 1) (#283)
by Ta bu shi da yu on Tue Oct 16, 2007 at 09:09:06 AM EST

I think you should be paying me to take that account off your hands!

---
AdTIה"the think tank that didn't".
ה
[ Parent ]
Funny man (none / 1) (#285)
by sllort on Wed Oct 17, 2007 at 12:21:38 AM EST

You'll need to pay another $100 premium just for that.
--
Warning: On Lawn is a documented liar.
[ Parent ]
I love seeing these idiots gripe. (none / 1) (#276)
by Kasreyn on Sat Sep 22, 2007 at 08:28:19 PM EST

Thanks for the entertainment, rusty. :)


"Extenuating circumstance to be mentioned on Judgement Day:
We never asked to be born in the first place."

R.I.P. Kurt. You will be missed.
$5? cheap (none / 1) (#280)
by koala on Thu Oct 04, 2007 at 05:42:54 PM EST

I visited http://www.well.com/ this morning.
Membership there will cost $10 or $15 each month.

You don't always get what you pay for but you usually pay for what you get.
 
Omphaloskepsis Often! .

well done rusty... (none / 1) (#281)
by parakopo on Sun Oct 14, 2007 at 05:39:20 AM EST

Nice move...
By asking a 5$ fee, you know our names, so you know that we are not sock puppets.

But I also have another request..In order to define the community, it is useful to know how many we are ,and especially how many of us are active contributors and readers.

This can be achieved by adding a "last_visited" field in the user's info. Additionally , let us sort all users using this "last_visited" field, in order to be able to define how many are the active ones.

Death Nail (none / 1) (#284)
by Haxx on Wed Oct 17, 2007 at 12:17:46 AM EST

 And, the death nail cometh.

So... (none / 1) (#286)
by ogenstein on Thu Oct 18, 2007 at 11:25:12 PM EST

... does this mean I can post?

Maybe you didn't delete me... (none / 1) (#288)
by Pnarp on Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 11:32:55 PM EST

...but you deleted all my posts! I want 'em back! Where'd they go!? Who ate them!?!?

∼ Phillip Norbert Årp
Powered by the love of the voluptuous insect goddess, Strahazazhia Kalamazoo-Kintaki-Meeps, She of the six-legged delights.


✿✿✿ Pnårp’s docile & perfunctory page! ✿✿✿
   ❝It’s docile! It’s perfunctory! It’s phlogistically fantastical! But… is it one of those blog things?❞
    All wrights preserved. No purchase estuary. Lawn gnomes not included. You won’t be disconcerted. Deployed where prohibited by snore.

❤   Pnårp learned this week that the world was still here. Will it ever end?

[ Current entry | Random entry ]
Who wants to pay $5 to get abused? (1.33 / 3) (#289)
by Orion Blastard on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 02:23:58 PM EST

The inmates run the asylum here.

Once you pay $5 for a new account, you get zero rated, your stories get voted down, and you get trolled. Paying $5 for a new account won't fix any of that, and all of that is what is wrong with Kuro5hin in the first place.

It might make more sense to open up new accounts for free, and pay the $5 to get comment rating, story voting, and story submitting privileges. Then charge $5 to unanonymize an account and start annoyimizing accounts for zero rating multiple comments of the same user, using dupes to vote down stories, and spamming the diary and story sessions. I think you'll make more money that way, plus it will try to fix what is wrong with Kuro5hin.

well maybe not so good (2.00 / 2) (#290)
by Perianwyr on Mon Apr 14, 2008 at 08:11:15 AM EST

yeah, so I don't think this worked out so well, judging from what we have in the story queue lately.

Metafilter lite (none / 1) (#291)
by Spatula on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 05:46:19 PM EST

More asshattery, less moderation!
--
someday I'll find something to put here.
I feel better about this account now (none / 1) (#292)
by nutate on Fri Dec 05, 2008 at 11:42:54 AM EST

Thanks man. Sure what if I hadn't checked the site (logged in) in... years and years. I feel like special again, in a way that my 4digit /. id wasn't giving me anymore. Which was probably why I came here in the first place. hah hah. -rich

Have we "seen what happens" yet? (3.00 / 2) (#293)
by localman on Fri Jan 09, 2009 at 01:56:34 PM EST

'Cause it looks like it isn't working so well.

How many people have paid the $5?


K5 Becomes "Gated Dysfunctional Community" | 290 comments (290 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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