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[P]
Windows crashing is ergonomic?

By jobi in Technology
Tue Oct 09, 2001 at 09:46:06 PM EST
Tags: Humour (all tags)
Humour

Is the fact that Microsoft Windows tend to crash (ir)regularly good for your health? Would IT workers be even more subject to RSI and other hazards if Windows were more stable? Will Windows 2000 and XP, with their touted stability, have a negative effect on your health? Is the benefits from micro-breaks offset by the aggravation of having to reboot?


I was talking to a friend on ICQ earlier, and when he told me he had to reboot his machine, instead of making the usual glib remark about his choice of operating system, I tried to look at the positive side of things, and told him that he should be thankful that Microsoft assured him of enough micro-breaks during his workday to alleviate the risk of injuries like RSI and the like. The reply was (of course) unfit for print... <grin>

But that exchange got me thinking (and I'm half-serious here, folks):
The ergonomics people always tell us to step away from the screen, take micro-breaks, do something else for a while. So when was the last time you did that? If you're at all like me, it was the last time you went for a smoke... (yeah, we smokers have it sooo easy).
Most geeks I know practically have to be dragged from the keyboard to get away from it at all, even for feeding. For them to be forced a reboot every now and then might actually be a good thing.

So what will happen now that Microsoft are releasing a (supposedly) stable OS? Will the rates of work-related injuries go through the roof? Should we demand that they engineer a more unstable program? After all, it's our health this is about.

I see (at least) two sides to this problem:
The good effects, i.e. taking a break, and the bad effects, i.e. getting mad at having to reboot.
The positive ergonomic effects of micro-breaks are well-documented, so this might be considered part of Microsofts customer care program. You will, on the whole, be significantly less at risk for RSI and the like if you take frequent breaks from your work in front of the terminal.
On the other hand, the negative mental effects of being forced to derail your train of thought is also well-documented, so one might as easily construe this as part of a Microsoft customer scare program. Many people find it hard to get that train back on track if they get disturbed, so productivity might drop. Which, of course, is a Bad Thing(tm).

So what do you do with your time when you face the inevitable (?) reboot? Myself, I tend to go for a smoke, fuming in more ways than one.

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Poll
Windows rebooting is:
o Good for your physical health 2%
o Bad for your mental health 34%
o Part of MS customer care 8%
o Part of MS customer scare 5%
o Smoking time 10%
o Call-of-nature time 12%
o Miller time 11%
o Inoshiro 14%

Votes: 105
Results | Other Polls

Related Links
o Also by jobi


Display: Sort:
Windows crashing is ergonomic? | 53 comments (48 topical, 5 editorial, 0 hidden)
Could be a research grant in it (4.44 / 9) (#3)
by TheophileEscargot on Tue Oct 09, 2001 at 06:40:15 AM EST

Clearly we need to balance the health benefits of a reboot break, against the stress-related health risks of reboot rage.

Someone needs to do a study to figure out the optimum number of OS crashes per day.

When that is figured out, we could lobby for a federal law requiring OSes to crash that number of times per day.
----
Support the nascent Mad Open Science movement... when we talk about "hundreds of eyeballs," we really mean it. Lagged2Death

Double work (none / 0) (#28)
by bigbird on Tue Oct 09, 2001 at 09:39:41 PM EST

You must not forget to factor in the extra strain and exertion required to repeat the work. Two or three reboots a day means that I might have to spend an extra 1/2 hour to an hour retyping work, depending on how frequently I save documents.

bigbird

If you think hunting is barbaric, you should try visiting a chicken farm



[ Parent ]
harmless reboot (none / 0) (#51)
by svampa on Mon Oct 15, 2001 at 02:54:07 PM EST

If they are random but programmed reboots, they could save all the work before crashing. Perhaps instead of reboot we could call it random shutdowns. From this point of view, in Unix, cron and a simple script is enough.

So, we only need to research the optimal random shutdown frequence.



[ Parent ]
Bury, no archive (3.50 / 4) (#5)
by mjs on Tue Oct 09, 2001 at 08:52:06 AM EST

Lovely; so now Microsoft can charge extra for the (highly) theoretical "health" benefits of their buggy software? And it's you giving them this idea? What's your real-world address: I know someone who wants to send you a little 'gift' of appreciation... :)

gift adress (4.66 / 3) (#6)
by jobi on Tue Oct 09, 2001 at 09:00:32 AM EST

Yay! Gifts! :)

Please send all gifts, be they bombs, assassins, or plain old Johnny-with-a-baseball-bat to:

One Microsoft Way
Redmond, WA 98052-6399

Thank you for your cooperation. :)

---
"[Y]ou can lecture me on bad language when you learn to use a fucking apostrophe."
[ Parent ]
Am I the only one... (3.00 / 1) (#20)
by itsbruce on Tue Oct 09, 2001 at 02:59:44 PM EST

One Microsoft Way Redmond, WA 98052-6399

... to find that address disturbingly messianic?


--I unfortunately do not know how to turn cheese into gold.
[ Parent ]

Yes. (none / 0) (#21)
by davidduncanscott on Tue Oct 09, 2001 at 03:24:12 PM EST



[ Parent ]
Apple's address (3.00 / 1) (#23)
by davidduncanscott on Tue Oct 09, 2001 at 03:37:43 PM EST

is cooler, though. Anybody know if they had that before the Mac, back when those loops were a Bad Thing?

[ Parent ]
Infinite Loop postdates the mac (none / 0) (#37)
by epeus on Wed Oct 10, 2001 at 01:33:31 PM EST

The Apple Campus, whcih si siz buildings surrounded by Infinite Loop was built in the early 90s, and at that time was Apple's R&D campus. Apple still has lots of other buildings scattered over Cupertino

[ Parent ]
I think the term was once... (none / 0) (#12)
by dorsai on Tue Oct 09, 2001 at 11:04:08 AM EST

ICBM address... meaning the geographical coordinates of the chap's home - to be a true ICBM address, though, it should also include target elevation ;)

Thinking back to the DARPA origins of the internet, the term is somewhat spooky - and fun



Dorsai the sigless


[ Parent ]
When forced to reboot (3.00 / 4) (#7)
by miller on Tue Oct 09, 2001 at 09:12:00 AM EST

When I have to reboot my machine I tend to vent my frustration on the PC, monitor, desk or adjacent coworkers. It's certainly not letting my hands hang down and shaking them to relieve RSI, I can tell you.

--
It's too bad I don't take drugs, I think it would be even better. -- Lagged2Death
RSI relief (none / 0) (#8)
by jobi on Tue Oct 09, 2001 at 09:16:26 AM EST

Apart from the "hanging down" part, you're still shaking your hands, aren't you? Or, more correctly perhaps, your fists.
Clenching and unclenching your fists might be good for the old RSI as well, it's the tight clenching of the jaw that I'm uncertain of... ;)

---
"[Y]ou can lecture me on bad language when you learn to use a fucking apostrophe."
[ Parent ]
None at all. (3.00 / 4) (#11)
by quartz on Tue Oct 09, 2001 at 10:54:13 AM EST

A more stable Windows will have no effect on me, since I won't touch the thing with a 20 foot pole. I'm perfectly happy with my Redhat Linux, thank you.

And what's this BS about time away from keyboard being good for me? Dude, if someone has to drag me from the keyboard, as your article says, in order for me to "get away from it all", then could it be that I don't *want* to get away from it all? Something I am forced to do is never good for me...



--
Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke, and fuck 'em even if they can.
bleh (4.00 / 1) (#13)
by rebelcool on Tue Oct 09, 2001 at 11:16:20 AM EST

windows crashing humor just doesnt apply anymore if you've got 2k and apparently XP (havent used it yet)...

I've had uptime on my win2k home machine (not bad for all the things it runs like games, IE, plugins and so on) for 45 days now..would be longer, but I shut it down to install some ram.

COG. Build your own community. Free, easy, powerful. Demo site

Re: bleh (none / 0) (#14)
by jobi on Tue Oct 09, 2001 at 11:40:27 AM EST

Yes, but the point is, doesn't that make you more susceptible to work-related injuries, for example RSI? I mean, with a OS stable enough to run for 45 days without downtime, there's nothing to force you to get up out of that chair and do some stretching, now is there?

---
"[Y]ou can lecture me on bad language when you learn to use a fucking apostrophe."
[ Parent ]
Well you still have to reboot when you install... (none / 0) (#24)
by SIGFPE on Tue Oct 09, 2001 at 06:06:24 PM EST

...plenty of software so you'll get your breaks that way.

If you install enough software you'll start getting the usual conflicts that have plagued Windows from its inception. You don't need the BSOD to force you to take a break.
SIGFPE
[ Parent ]

Nope, not true (none / 0) (#33)
by Ghoti69 on Wed Oct 10, 2001 at 10:14:50 AM EST

I've got dozens of programs installed: Office Premium, Premiere, Photoshop, Paint Shop, Visual Studio Enterprise, dozens of games, etc, etc. 'Course, I've had all that before with NT and never had a blue screen, either. But, that's 'cause I know what I'm going. I haven't met a penguinhead yet I would trust on a computer. Anyone that looks at a blue screen as a reason to reboot, rather than an error message that tells you exactly what's wrong, is an idiot. Microsoft and Windows are not to blame because you can't fix your machine.

[ Parent ]
And tell me... (none / 0) (#36)
by SIGFPE on Wed Oct 10, 2001 at 01:15:23 PM EST

...after you've read that very nice message from Mr Gates do you just continue what you were doing as if nothing had happened?
SIGFPE
[ Parent ]
Well, lessee... (none / 0) (#44)
by Ghoti69 on Thu Oct 11, 2001 at 09:15:20 AM EST

I've seen two blue screens in the last 4-5 years, each of them were right after I put in new hardware. Not being a moron, I assumed this might have something to do with it, and sure enough, when I removed the new hardware, the problem went away. Following penguinhead logic, I should've just rebooted it every day, 'cause that would make it work!

[ Parent ]
Yes... (none / 0) (#46)
by SIGFPE on Thu Oct 11, 2001 at 12:38:17 PM EST

...I have in fact seen very few BSOD's with W2K - if MS knew how to schedule a multitasking OS the W2K kernel would be good. My problem is with explorer.exe which I have found easy to hand with many different configurations. Unlike some other OSes, if explorer.exe hangs it can be as bad as the kernel hanging.
SIGFPE
[ Parent ]
not me. (none / 0) (#26)
by rebelcool on Tue Oct 09, 2001 at 08:46:04 PM EST

I am unable to just sit at a desk all day. I have to go outside. Take walks. Breathe fresh air and absorb sunshine.

My boss thought it was odd, until he realized that after a 15 minute break like that resulted in much more work accomplished than if I didnt do that.

And thats just at work..now I go home, read my email, occasionally play a game and post things on here. Between that I've got classes and studies to attend to, and then try an maintain a decently attractive physique for the g/f.

COG. Build your own community. Free, easy, powerful. Demo site
[ Parent ]

Win2k is expensive; WinXP has WPA (none / 0) (#41)
by pin0cchio on Wed Oct 10, 2001 at 06:34:54 PM EST

windows crashing humor just doesnt apply anymore if you've got 2k and apparently XP (havent used it yet)

Most home (not business) users don't have the money to license Windows 2000. Windows XP has only a 30-day uptime before it must be reinstalled to reset the product activation timer; not everybody has a pay phone close by from which to give the long ass code to Microsoft without revealing caller ID.


lj65
[ Parent ]
at the risk..... (2.53 / 13) (#15)
by streetlawyer on Tue Oct 09, 2001 at 01:23:58 PM EST

of front-running a forthcoming article on the Web's most controversial discussion site, I'd like to point out that the world currently gives you two choices:
  • An operating system that crashes all the time (Windows)
  • An operating system with applications that crash all the time (Linux, if you try to use anything that gives you remotely the functionality of Windows).
The Linux crowd have my personal permission to start getting cocky when, and only when, they can demonstrate a word-processor, spreadsheet and presentation tool suite that crashes less often than Microsoft Office. And given the stability of 2000 and XP, they'd better hurry up if they don't want to start looking pretty silly.

--
Just because things have been nonergodic so far, doesn't mean that they'll be nonergodic forever
Eh (2.00 / 1) (#17)
by Neuromancer on Tue Oct 09, 2001 at 01:51:25 PM EST

I respectfully disagree, most of the functionality in windows apps is adapted from functionality in SOME standard unix except for the stuff that I consider to be fluffy. I use linux as my main OS. I can't remember when I reopenned my windows parition.

HOWEVER...

There is also a lot of CRAPPY software for Linux. While you are right, there are a lot of cute pretty apps written by high school students in python as practice before they get their MCSE, there are also plenty of good rock solid apps that do everything you need.

You're confusing application instablilty in lets say "debian unstable" which does have 1 bad package almost daily, with application instabilty when you go to a good, professionally written site, get the packages, and perform an install procedure almost identical to windows installation (unless you're hand compiling, which is fairly stable as well).

To sum this up...

Of course you're going to crash when you take the your stable webserver and load a script written by a cracked out hobbyist who wouldn't know a class from an int32. Ironically, similar practices on windows machines just bring the whole damn machine down instead of the 1 application.

[ Parent ]
I don't recognise this (5.00 / 1) (#19)
by streetlawyer on Tue Oct 09, 2001 at 02:24:37 PM EST

I don't know what you consider "fluffy", but I have to produce financial reports for a living and I don't recognise your description of Linux. I don't see how anything in Office is functionality in any standard Unix.

there are also plenty of good rock solid apps that do everything you need.

I need a spreadsheet package which will allow me to write macros, which has a well-chosen set of financial and statistical functions and a charting utility. There is *no* rock solid application for Linux which does this. Gnumeric is not "rock solid"; it crashes often and hard. When you've lost three hours' work in an application crash, it is cold comfort indeed to be reminded that your OS's uptime is still looking pretty.

--
Just because things have been nonergodic so far, doesn't mean that they'll be nonergodic forever
[ Parent ]

Save? (5.00 / 1) (#29)
by bigbird on Tue Oct 09, 2001 at 09:44:31 PM EST

When you've lost three hours' work in an application crash
If you look at the top of your application window (that's the thing with the borders), you will find the word "File". If you move the little arrow on the mouse over "File", and click it, a thing called a menu appears. One of the words on the menu is "Save", another is "Save As".

If you use them every ten minutes or so, you should not lose 3 hours of work.

bigbird

[ Parent ]

fair enough; you've never done modelling (none / 0) (#30)
by streetlawyer on Wed Oct 10, 2001 at 03:14:12 AM EST

Sadly, if you use the "Save" button, you freeze and commit changes to your financial model which may only be intermediate, experimental changes. I *really* can't afford to be proliferating erroneous versions of models, and this is not an uncommon problem.

--
Just because things have been nonergodic so far, doesn't mean that they'll be nonergodic forever
[ Parent ]
Did you expect better? (none / 0) (#34)
by darthaya on Wed Oct 10, 2001 at 12:15:49 PM EST

Most of the people who are chanting "Linux" without thinking twice wouldn't be working with Financial modeling. That would be too much a job for them to handle.

[ Parent ]
Versions (none / 0) (#42)
by bigbird on Wed Oct 10, 2001 at 09:49:24 PM EST

I only found the 3 hour part to be a bit rich, and simply could not restrain myself. Is there anything that would prevent you from saving versions every 15min - 1/2 hour, and reverting to a previous version if a given change to a model had to be tossed?

Last time I used Gnumeric, it lacked a lot of the add-ons like the statistical packages that come with Excel. I also had no idea how to try any scripting, as there was no equivalent to the VBA manual for Excel, and little or no built-in help files or references.

As a side note, wasn't there a problem with some of the built-in statistical functions in Excel a few years ago? It always worried me a bit to be using Excel to summarize analytical data for submission to a regulatory agency.

bigbird

If you think hunting is barbaric, you should try visiting a chicken farm



[ Parent ]
Are you really a professional? (none / 0) (#43)
by odaiwai on Thu Oct 11, 2001 at 12:46:07 AM EST

> Sadly, if you use the "Save" button, you freeze and commit changes to your financial
> model which may only be intermediate, experimental changes. I *really* can't afford to
> be proliferating erroneous versions of models, and this is not an uncommon problem.

In that case you make a copy of the current version and label it as a dev. version. Work on that one and make it official when it's good and ready. Working without saving regularly is just wasting your time.

dave
-- "They're chefs! Chefs with chainsaws!"
[ Parent ]
version control is what you want (none / 0) (#48)
by ethereal on Thu Oct 11, 2001 at 01:16:43 PM EST

Going three hours without saving would be a mistake even on the most stable OS possible; the power could still go out, right? So there is always a need to save regularly. What you need is version control so that you aren't stuck with an incorrect saved version.

I'm not arguing that it's OK for Gnumeric to crash all the time - I think it's a pretty silly argument to say that "you should just save more often" is a solution to Gnumeric crashing, when for years it's been a joke that you had to do just that under Windows. Applications shouldn't crash (and if they do, they shouldn't take the OS along with it) - granted. But regardless of platform and application, if you're doing real work you probably want to save often and version control those saves.

Personally, I haven't had too many Gnumeric crashes, but then I don't do a lot of office-type stuff on my linux machine at home so I probably haven't pushed it too hard.

--

Stand up for your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and State
[ Parent ]

Ahem... (none / 0) (#45)
by Mr. Piccolo on Thu Oct 11, 2001 at 10:00:28 AM EST

Try this one.

The BBC would like to apologise for the following comment.


[ Parent ]
Oh, go wank off to some porn. (2.00 / 1) (#27)
by regeya on Tue Oct 09, 2001 at 09:15:47 PM EST

Or do something other than the usual diatribe other than the usual "Linux doesn't have Word, and it's all Linux's fault."

I suppose you'll be saying it's Linux's fault that various pieces of hardware aren't supported.

C'mon, streetlawyer; well, I suppose I shouldn't go on this rant. I know better because I know you know better. Okay? I suppose there are people reading this 'site that don't know WTF streetlawyer is or how intelligent (or how lacking in intelligence) you are. You and I know that Open Source developers are just part-time programmers; guys and gals who write something Because They Can(TM). We also both know that Windows has better hardware support because, well, companies aren't that sharing with hardware info anymore.

And of course, we can't ignore the ludicrousness of assuming that the only way for anyone to produce usable office tools is to clone MS Office tools. You and I probably both remember that the biggest complaint about Word and Excel is the poor input/output support for WordPerfect and Lotus 1-2-3, respectively.

Of course, none of this matters. Right? Nevermind that I can fire up LyX and leave it running for days on end. Right? The important thing here is to see the tempers flare of rookie kuro5hin readers, because Adequacy, being so mind-numbingly obvious and one-tracked, doesn't provide the same entertainment value of an "honest" discussion board.

Right?

[ yokelpunk | kuro5hin diary ]
[ Parent ]

I'm perfectly serious (3.00 / 1) (#31)
by streetlawyer on Wed Oct 10, 2001 at 03:18:20 AM EST

christ, some people are so blinded by hate ...

I've never had any problems moving between Word and WordPerfect. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I use fairly advanced features of both, and they seem to "just work". I actually prefer WordPerfect, but not the Linux version, which is one of the most crash-happy pieces of software on God's earth (a point which has just occurred to me in resposne to a poster lower down is that it is possible to lose three hours' thinking time even if you save your work after every ten minutes' typing time).

1-2-3 and Excel are much less co-operative, and this is one of my big beefs with Excel (although frankly, I hate 123 anyway). But once more, the option of using 123 in its Linux version isn't there, or at least, not for people who mind having the thing crash all the time.

--
Just because things have been nonergodic so far, doesn't mean that they'll be nonergodic forever
[ Parent ]

somewhat different opinion (none / 0) (#35)
by gr1sw41d on Wed Oct 10, 2001 at 01:05:55 PM EST

Windows is built by a collosal money machine, with incredible resources built on a history of strong arm tactics that actually violated law and clearly lacked any sense of fair play. Windows is now a pretty technically sound product, irregardless of some of the purely technical faults, but the costs getting there were in my opinion too much, and I don't have much respect for them as a result.

Linux is built by many volunteers and increasingly by computer industry folks who recognise what Linux has come to be. Linux is based on something more than mere money, it has as a primary goal to simply do things the right way.

So given the above, I for one do run some Linux, even if it has less in the way of applications (in many areas, of course, in many other areas it is vastly superior, goes both ways), as all technical issues aside, Linux was simply built by better human beings. That said, I also run windows 95, because it has a better browser. Since microsoft leaves folks like me behind (because I don't constantly shovel money their way), eventually the 95 will be gone too. 98 and above just waste resources, so not much interest currently, although I do like microsoft technology so if I ever get hardware resources to waste, I might revisit this.

Those are the reasons that I don't really jump on the debate, and I think you'll find that there are others like me who have no interest in debating, many folks have absolutely no problem when folks like streetlawyer runs windows, indeed, many folks don't care at all what the likes of streetlawyer do and therefore ignore these types of people. But I feel generous enough to give streetlawyer this kind of feedback, I feel its my mission in life to offer gentle feedback to any of the worlds lost souls, and I continue to do this any chance I get. Hence this post.

I also made a bit of a promise to myself that I'd try to do my part to make streetlawyer a better person, currently he's resisting, but I feel eventually he'll come around and we can work on his poor disposition for starters. If the rest of you could quit picking on the poor fellow, I might be able to initiate some progress here.

2 cents.

[ Parent ]

Linux software stability. (2.00 / 2) (#47)
by babbitt on Thu Oct 11, 2001 at 12:49:01 PM EST

Linux does have plenty of stable software. I have /never/ seen a core linux component crash on me (shells or utilities). I crashed awk once when writing a program in it, but that's my own damn fault.

LaTeX is a very nice formatting system, very useful and faster to write documents in than word. It takes some getting used to, but it is very stable and useful. It does not have all the features of word, but I have never found myself wanting for any features.


--
Ben Abbitt

Give a man enough rope, he'll hang himself. Teach a man to make rope, he'll hang other people.


[ Parent ]
Windows Rebooting is... (4.75 / 12) (#16)
by Neuromancer on Tue Oct 09, 2001 at 01:30:29 PM EST

Job Security...

Which would I rather tell my boss.

IIS crashed today, so I rebooted, it keeps crashing, damn it.

Apache crashed today. It's been running flawlessly for 6 months and today it crashed... Yes sir, I know that using FreeBSD was my decision... Yes sir, you're right. No sir, I don't think it's a crappy product. Yes sir, thank you for my walking papers.

I can't imagine why someone would prefer the prior in any practical sense, except that using unix (the old standby mind you) you seem to have to defend why you do it, whereas windows could come with a little troll that runs around raping your coworkers and your boss would still think it's an a-ok decision. Oh well.

Hehehe, troll. (4.50 / 2) (#18)
by Faulty Dreamer on Tue Oct 09, 2001 at 02:10:00 PM EST

Could you maybe run that troll idea by Microsoft Marketing? I know a few coworkers that could use a good troll-raping.

--------
Faulty Dreams - Barking at the moon 24/7...

If you think I'm an asshole, it's only because you haven't realized what a fucking idiot I am. - Faulty Dreamer
[ Parent ]

It would be an improvement (2.50 / 4) (#22)
by itsbruce on Tue Oct 09, 2001 at 03:35:41 PM EST

Over the sodding paperclip.


--I unfortunately do not know how to turn cheese into gold.
[ Parent ]

+1, FP! (none / 0) (#25)
by roystgnr on Tue Oct 09, 2001 at 06:50:17 PM EST

windows could come with a little troll that runs around raping your coworkers and your boss would still think it's an a-ok decision.

Congratulations - I was about to -1 this bland humor submission until I saw your post...

[ Parent ]

Been there (4.00 / 1) (#49)
by Nickus on Fri Oct 12, 2001 at 05:01:14 AM EST

As the unix manager for a mediumsized institute I hear that every now and then. If some of my servers act strangely I have to explain in long details why and then defend myself (feels like that).

In the same time people here are content with Outlook Express loosing there email because of corrupt index files. Open the same inbox with another program and the mails appear again.

Oh, in half an hour I will just resize our /home partition and add another 200GB while it is still online. No one will notice and no one will thank me.



Due to budget cuts, light at end of tunnel will be out. --Unknown
[ Parent ]
Amen! (none / 0) (#53)
by NicholasRP on Thu Nov 01, 2001 at 04:53:59 AM EST

Its great to install new software/hardware on some system (winnt is the best) because of all the reboots you gotta do. what would take just the compile time and make install(depending on system speed) compared to the number of times I need to reboot and wait for all the services to load (winnt remember) is usually a much smaller number in seconds.*nix situation: "PHB->Hows that machine coming along. Techie->no expected downtime, so your email is safe" 30 minutes. 'doze situation: "PHB->Hows that machine coming along. Techie->Well there was some registry corruption that I gotta fix and restore, and then the part on the CD that the Setup.exe is on is scratched and I get windows protection faults. Of course I needed to reboot several times to make sure windows' memory was 'clean' and give it a 'fresh' start (the only OS personified in the IT field needing TLC [tender loving care]) after I got it all installed and working" 4 hours with long various breaks for caffeine and food and shooting the shit with the network guys. Man talk about job security.

Getting memory addresses instead of your objects at 4am is no bueno. ~Nick
[ Parent ]
Is it really that bad? (5.00 / 3) (#32)
by Hefty on Wed Oct 10, 2001 at 10:11:53 AM EST

I've had my latest P4 machine built and running for two months now on win2k. I've had applications and games stop responding but all I do is ctrl alt del and end task. Then I start the app right back up again and guess what? it works again. Rebooting is for Win95/98/ME. Not that rebooting win98 really bothers me on my P4 1.7ghz, 512meg rambus, Raid stripped 0 workstation. It takes me, oh all of about 15 seconds to boot up to a desktop under win98. So, I don't really find myself with much of a break in that circumstance or really worrying about it that much. That's what gets me about the Penguin heads that blatantly say "Windows locks ups and sucks". It would help if they would clarify and point out exactly which MS product, "locks up and sucks". I know bad OS's and apps are out there (for sure) but these blanket statements just don't hold water.

yeah, yeah. (5.00 / 2) (#40)
by bediger on Wed Oct 10, 2001 at 05:45:00 PM EST

I've had my latest P4 machine built and running for two months now on win2k.

And you'll be saying that sort of thing until whenever the successor to XP service pack 8 comes out, at which point you'll joyously install yet another freshness-dated MSFT OS, admit that XP wasn't quite as good as most Linuxes in terms of uptime, but now that you've installed "Windows 2007", you've finally got a stable OS.

Nothing personal - I'd be more willing to believe you if I hadn't heard exactly the same thing about every new MSFT OS since NT came out in '92.


-- I am Spartacus.
[ Parent ]
Another Happy Win2K User (none / 0) (#50)
by br284 on Sat Oct 13, 2001 at 12:52:14 PM EST

I used to be very pro-Linux for the stability. However, with the release of Windows 2000, I moved back to the Windows platform as stability was no longer an issue. I'm happy to have BOTH stability and apps now. -chris

[ Parent ]
Worry about these things instead (4.00 / 2) (#38)
by frabcus on Wed Oct 10, 2001 at 01:49:02 PM EST

Indead, Windows being unstable is a dead argument. Win2K and WinXP are both very stable.

The debate has moved on to these much more important issues:

  • Microsoft can double their prices without the option of your company going to a competitor.
  • They are using Passport, publicised as part of the .net/Hailstorm iniative, to take control of your personal information. This will seem OK to start with, but when it becomes the only way to buy things online, it will be very very dangerous.


(shrug) (none / 0) (#39)
by Kasreyn on Wed Oct 10, 2001 at 03:36:22 PM EST

I'd personally prefer more stability, as I never get any stress or damage, even when I type for 6-8 hrs straight. Doesn't seem to bother me, or maybe I'm just made of steel. ;-)

What do I generally do when Windoze (98 in this case) crashes on me? Generally I either get a drink, or sit there and mock my computer as it restarts (yes, out loud. Things along the lines of, "Wow, memory check complete in only a whole 5 seconds, I'm soooo proud). The instability of 98 bothers me, but there are ways to reduce it, and I use all of them. Besides, it's the best games OS MS ever made, so I tolerate it. =P


-Kasreyn

q
"Extenuating circumstance to be mentioned on Judgement Day:
We never asked to be born in the first place."

R.I.P. Kurt. You will be missed.
Get an RSI program instead of a crashing OS (none / 0) (#52)
by martinl on Sun Oct 28, 2001 at 05:45:39 AM EST

RSI is very hurtfull and any problems you might experience should be taken very seriously indeed.

There are several good applications that enforce breaks from using the mouse and keyboard. There is XWrits for UNIX. On Windows, I personally use RSI Guard (commercial). It measures your mousing and keyboarding separately, which is very good for me.

/Martin

Windows crashing is ergonomic? | 53 comments (48 topical, 5 editorial, 0 hidden)
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