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[P]
A Runner's Primer

By LilDebbie in Technology
Mon May 26, 2008 at 01:40:27 PM EST
Tags: running, jogging, exercise, health, howto (all tags)

By popular demand, everything your ever wanted to know about running but were too lazy to google yourself:


Posture

Remember how your mother harped on you to sit/stand up straight? She had a point, so stop your slouching, mister! Bad posture is the number one reason why running sucks for you. Not that running with correct posture doesn't suck, but it sucks substantially less. Let's get back to what your mom said:

Stand up straight!
For those of you without military/marching band experience, here's what that entails. Your shoulders should be directly over your hips. Most people run/walk/stand around looking stupid with their shoulders hunched forward. This does two things that are bad for runners. First, it moves your center of gravity forward, forcing your legs to work harder to keep you from falling over on your face. The second and more critical effect is lung compression. More weight is applied to your diaphragm which makes breathing more difficult, and anyone who's ever run more than a few feet can tell you the importance of breathing (more on that later).

So roll your fucking shoulders back, asshole, and keep 'em there. Stick out your chest like you have a reason to be proud. Do you have trouble maintaining this stance? That's because you're a spineless little shit. Aside from forcing yourself to maintain this position, here are some ways you can remedy the situation. Trouble keeping your shoulders back? Christ, you're worthless. Row, row, row your boat.

Arms

Now that you're all standing at attention, let's focus on your hands. Are they on your hips? No? Then put 'em there, faggot. I'm guessing your elbows are now pointing to either side of you. This is wrong. Pull'em in until they're pointing in the same direction as your bulbous ass. Difficult? Row some more, pussy. For the rest of you, take note of this position as all correct motion above the waist will pass through this point regularly. We'll even give it a name. I call it, "standing at attention."

Now swing your arms like you would if you were running. Your hands should not go back further than your hips. In fact, I doubt you'll be able to bring them further back provided your elbows are still pointing in the right direction. They are, aren't they? "But LilDebbie, if I swing my arm forward, won't my elbow be pointing at the ground?" Yes, yes it will, which brings my to my next point.

Your arms do not go swing in front of you chest. They swing alongside it.
Assuming most of you are math nerds, lets put this in language you can understand. Ten hut! That means stand at attention, scum! Alright, that's better. Note how your arms are bent roughly 90 at the elbow. Imagine your upper and lower arms are two perpendicular vectors. You shouldn't have to imagine it because they are. Now can anyone tell me what geometric figure two perpendicular vectors describe? That's right, a plane. What's so special about this plane? Nothing, except you are to limit the motion of your arms to it. For extra credit, can you tell me what spatial relationship the two planes described by your arms share? That's right, they're parallel to one another.

The wrong way to swing your arms while running is to allow them to cross in front of your chest, i.e. allow the two planes to become non-parallel. What this does is cause your torso to twist back and forth as you run. Not only does this waste energy, it also causes those piercing side aches that prevent you from making it to the finish line. Too difficult? Do some push ups, you lazy sack of shit.

Legs

You may not have the necessary room around your computer to try this while you read, so jot down some notes to take with you outside. As your shoulders are to your waist, so too with your knees to your feet. While failing to keep your knees over your feet has little short-term impact to running, the long-term consequence is fucked up knees. I'll leave discussion of the seriousness of said consequence to those of you who already fucked what is arguably the most imporant pair of joints in your body. The clever among you have already realized two things:

  • Your legs will move along parallel planes similar to your arms.
  • Your center of gravity will perpetually be over your balls/cunt instead of your feet.
The first realization will merely help you appreciate the symmetry to proper running. The second is only a problem if you have weak hips. In that case I recommend more salsa dancing.

As you run, your feet will push you forward until they no longer connect with the ground. Don't dally when this happens! Bring the leg forward immediately as you will receive very little benefit from pushing air. When the leg does come forward, lead with the knee, not with your foot. Your foot will swing forward on its own.

Ankles & Feet

This is trickiest part, but absolutely vital for people who run more than a few miles a week. Bad runners bounce. Good runners flow. Bouncing is bad because it causes shin splints, which apparently suck balls (I wouldn't know). Bouncing also fucks up your joints. To avoid this, you need to step as though you're trying to squeeze all the toothpaste out of a tube using only your foot. Sorry for the crappy simile but that's how it was explained to me and I can't think of anything better. Anatomically speaking, land on your heel and roll the rest of your foot down. Once it is flat on the ground, lift the heel and transfer your weight to the ball of the foot. Your toes should be the only part of your foot touching the ground right before you lift off again. Practice this walking first until you get a feel for it.

To check if you're doing it wrong while you run, find a glass-paned building to pass by and see if your hair is bouncing in the reflection, assuming you have sufficient hair to bounce. Otherwise tie a ribbon around your head or something.

Breathe

Oxygen is important. It's all the more important while engaged in tough cardiovascular exercise, so do it right, kids. Breathe in through your nose and out through your mouth. Pulling in air through the narrower aperture of your nostrils speeds it up. I'm sure there's a physical law to describe this, but I never took aerodynamics. The important thing is that the air gets deeper in your lungs, thus exposing it to a larger surface area of alveoli and thereby absorbing more O2.

While from a purely pulmonary perspective, breathing out through your nose is slightly superior to exhaling from your mouth, it also causes snot to dribble down your face. The only instance where the cost/benefit ratio favors sinus exhalation is cold weather running, as your soft tissues have an annoying tendency to freeze if they only have cold air blowing over them. Not inhaling through your mouth is doubly important in the cold as your tooth enamel doesn't receive nearly as much blood flow as the rest of you and cools much faster. Frozen teeth suck hard. Trust me on this one.

Stretching

Serious runners stretch. Stupid runners don't. Stretching reduces recovery time, prevents injury, and allows for other interesting activities. You should always stretch immediately after a run. If you're trying to improve flexibility, you should also stretch a mile (1.5 kilometers) into the run. While this is in no way a comprehensive list, here are the stretches I typically do:

  • Hamstrings - Sitting down, legs extended, reach for your toes and beyond. Repeat with one leg tucked into your groin. Repeat with opposite leg.
  • Ass - Sitting with one leg extended, place the other foot on the outside of the extended knee. Leverage your arm against the raised knee and rotate torso in the opposite direction. Repeat on opposite cheek.
  • Groin - Sitting with feet together, lean torso forward and push legs down with elbows.
  • Quads - Standing on one foot, pull the other into your ass. For those without balance, hold on to something so you don't fall over. Repeat with opposite leg.
  • Calves - Standing on a curb, bring one heel down to street-level. Repeat with opposite heel. This can also be done with the ball of your foot against a wall and the heel on the ground, but is trickier.
  • Shoulders - Extend arm straight across chest. Pull it in with other arm. Repeat with opposite. Bend arm behind head and pull down at the elbow with other arm. Repeat with opposite.
All stretches should be held for at least 30 seconds.

Ground

Not all surfaces are created equal. Some are better to run on than others. Ideally, you should run on sand, but not everyone lives near the beach. Good surfaces to run on include grass, clay, asphalt, and anything shock absorbent. Do not run on concrete as that will only reflect the impact of your step right back into your legs, and that's a bad thing for reasons already mentioned.

Hills

In the likely event you encounter some form of gradient along your run, be prepared to adjust your gait. When running downhill, resist the urge to bomb down it as this is a great way to fuck up your ankles. You should also be wary of your center of gravity and lean back a bit until you are no longer perpendicular with the ground. Stay parallel to the direction of gravity. God made your ankles bend for a reason.

Same thing applies going uphill, but in the other direction. Lean forward (but keep those shoulders back, faggot) until you're no longer falling backwards. Also, lift your knees higher than usual so you don't kick the elevated ground in front of you, and by "higher than usual" I mean, "try to knee yourself in the tits."

Running for Endurance

People run for different reasons. People who run to become the Energizer Bunny should focus on slow-paced, long distance running. You don't need to go that fast to hit your aerobic threshold, but the longer you keep it up the better. Singing while you run will also help build your cardiovascular capacity. Consult your local Marine recruiter for charming running cadences.

Running for Speed

While there are a large variety of strength building exercises out there, most of them require joining a run club. Seeing as most of you are antisocial losers, here's a simple and effective one you can do all on your lonesome. First, find a hill, the steeper the better, measuring roughly 100 feet (30 meters) along the hypotenuse. Next, determine a roughly quarter mile (half kilometer) pancake flat route that starts and ends below the hill. Run the flat route at a leisurely pace. When you get to the hill, sprint up it as fast as you can. Once you get to the top, or 100 feet up if it keeps going, jog back down and do the quarter mile loop again. Repeat until you're about to vomit, which should happen after a dozen circuits or so.

Running for Weight Loss

Don't. Get a bike instead.

Food & Water

Proper hydration is key. If your piss isn't clear, you need to drink more water. Failure to stay properly hydrated leads to heat stroke, which I can tell you from experience sucks balls. What you probably didn't consider is eating. There are two concerns with eating and running. The first is do not eat right before you run or you will puke it up during the run. This includes shit like Gatorade, which has more sugar in it than your stomach is going to want to deal with. Watered down fitness drinks are okay, but try to limit the amount of calories you take a full hour before you run.

For those of you who run competitively, what you eat in the 24 hours leading up to the race matters. Gorge thyself on carbohydrates. Head down to the all-you-can-eat pasta buffet and shoot the shit with fellow runners trying to build up their ATP stores. Bread, bagels, matzah, and cereal are all things to be consumed in excess the night before. Avoid fatty foods as they will only take up precious space in your colon.

Nonsensical Conclusion/Dedication

Following these not so simple instructions will help make you the best on Earth, the best on Lars.

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Related Links
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o spineless little shit
o some ways
o Row, row, row your boat.
o standing at attention
o some push ups
o weak
o hips
o salsa dancing
o shin splints
o interestin g activities
o charming running cadences
o heat stroke
o Also by LilDebbie


Display: Sort:
A Runner's Primer | 117 comments (84 topical, 33 editorial, 0 hidden)
Add note about overdrinking? (3.00 / 2) (#11)
by Murkey on Sun May 25, 2008 at 12:20:15 AM EST

Avoid drinking to excess, water bouncing in your stomach leads to nausea, not to mention the amusing things that fucking up your fluid balance can do to your brain cells.

maybe my body is more absorbent (none / 0) (#12)
by LilDebbie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 12:31:53 AM EST

but i have a difficult time drinking too much water. given the tendency for people to drink too little, i prefer to err on the side of MOAR.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
wasn't this supposed to be about masturbation? (2.00 / 3) (#13)
by Ezra Loomis Pound on Sun May 25, 2008 at 01:28:51 AM EST

I was disappointed. The development of new jack-off techniques wouldve been more K5ish...

:::"Let me tell ya, if she wasn't cut out to handle some fake boy online, well sister, life only gets more difficult, and you only get more emo as you age." --balsamic vinigga :::#_#:::
not my expertise (3.00 / 2) (#14)
by LilDebbie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:21:18 AM EST

furthermore, already done to perfection.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
LilDebbie, there's no reason to be so modest now.. (none / 0) (#63)
by yuo on Mon May 26, 2008 at 01:53:56 PM EST

..when you've already confessed to your talent.

I wish I had thought of pants pants pants pants pants pants pants pants.
[ Parent ]

Self improvement is masturbation... (3.00 / 3) (#24)
by skyknight on Sun May 25, 2008 at 12:34:49 PM EST

Self destruction... now that's a start.

It's not much fun at the top. I envy the common people, their hearty meals and Bruce Springsteen and voting. --SIGNOR SPAGHETTI
[ Parent ]
my contribution (3.00 / 11) (#15)
by circletimessquare on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:37:20 AM EST

don't have a big bowl of fibrous oatmeal made with expired milk right before a run. trust me on this one, you don't want to know the details

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

sounds like an awesome hangover cure (3.00 / 3) (#16)
by Murkey on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:58:01 AM EST



[ Parent ]
nice (3.00 / 2) (#17)
by LilDebbie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 09:48:38 AM EST

mine was half a box of wheat thins and a big bottle of gatorade right before a 5K.

i'm proud to say that despite the vomiting, i didn't come in last on my team.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]

my problem was with the other end (3.00 / 2) (#23)
by circletimessquare on Sun May 25, 2008 at 12:16:40 PM EST



The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]
eww... $ (3.00 / 2) (#27)
by LilDebbie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:06:03 PM EST



My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
an easy pre-run or pre-race meal (none / 1) (#82)
by j1mmy on Tue May 27, 2008 at 08:05:10 AM EST

a couple spoonfuls of peanut butter. the protein makes you feel full and it doesn't jostle around in your stomach. peanut butter is totally awesome.

i usually do oatmeal before my runs, but with water instead of milk. dairy and exercise are rarely a good mix.


[ Parent ]

that was my problem (none / 1) (#83)
by circletimessquare on Tue May 27, 2008 at 08:47:22 AM EST

the oatmeal gave me the runs

badumpcha!

thank you, i'm here all week

The tigers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction.

[ Parent ]

heel of foot first? (none / 1) (#29)
by rhiannon on Sun May 25, 2008 at 06:03:45 PM EST

I always thought that was really jarring, I usually land on the balls of my feet, the heel barely touching, am I going to die?

-----------------------------------------
I continued to rebuff the advances... so many advances... of so many attractive women. -MC
nopes (none / 0) (#30)
by LilDebbie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 06:08:45 PM EST

but damn you gotta have ripped shins to keep that up for any length of time. unless you're wrenching your ankle each step in which case ya ur gonna fuck the joint.

have you done any distance running, cause i cannot see someone doing that for more than a mile.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]

I run from my front door to the car (3.00 / 2) (#31)
by rhiannon on Sun May 25, 2008 at 06:22:34 PM EST

when it's raining out

-----------------------------------------
I continued to rebuff the advances... so many advances... of so many attractive women. -MC
[ Parent ]
okay (none / 0) (#37)
by LilDebbie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 08:06:25 PM EST

yeah what you describe does not work for long distances. your shins aren't that strong.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
Arguably (none / 1) (#42)
by tetsuwan on Sun May 25, 2008 at 10:37:02 PM EST

that's how you're supposed to run barefoot.

Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
[ Parent ]

no (none / 0) (#45)
by LilDebbie on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:46:00 AM EST

that's how you should run if you're overly concerned with maintaining balance. i assure you that you cannot run like that cross country.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
You can't land on your heel (none / 1) (#48)
by tetsuwan on Mon May 26, 2008 at 04:55:52 AM EST

if you run barefoot, and you can run a marathon barefoot. What's your argument again?

Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance
[ Parent ]

huh (none / 0) (#53)
by LilDebbie on Mon May 26, 2008 at 09:20:43 AM EST

didn't think that was possible. in my defense, the first marathon was ran well after the development of the sandal.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
pro tip (none / 0) (#81)
by j1mmy on Tue May 27, 2008 at 08:01:01 AM EST

i picked up a pair of these last month and have started running in them. it absolutely forces you into a flat foot strike (the ideal), or even a forefoot strike. and, yes, it's a killer on the shins at first.


[ Parent ]
My experience confirms your theory. (none / 0) (#107)
by TrumanTxapote on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 12:20:27 AM EST

I don't run long distances or anything, but I play football (soccer) and do it mostly like rhiannon said. I'm quite a fast player who makes the best of his game by overrunning his rivals. Short but intense efforts during 90 minutes.

In those sprints, when I need to go really fast, I tend to land hard on the balls of my feet. I don't even think my heel gets to touch the ground on every step. In fact, I always get sores and stuff like that in the balls (of my feet!). And yeah, I tend to get hard shin splints when I play several times in a week.

So, your advice is landing on the heel. But hey, wouldn't I loose pace? I don't know, it sounds like a longer thing to do: landing on your heel, and then changing position to lift off... I "skip" all that. Probably you're going to tell me I shouldn't loose pace if done properly, but hey, I'm an amateur, not willing to spend too much time working on my running technique...

[ Parent ]

running is bad for you (none / 1) (#47)
by GrubbyBeardedHermit on Mon May 26, 2008 at 02:50:40 AM EST

don't do it.

GBH

there are only 2 topical comments (none / 0) (#51)
by Ezra Loomis Pound on Mon May 26, 2008 at 07:53:46 AM EST

3 now, actually.

For posterity, I voted this article about gymnastics up, even though the failfuck author forgot to mention: BREATHING.

:::"Let me tell ya, if she wasn't cut out to handle some fake boy online, well sister, life only gets more difficult, and you only get more emo as you age." --balsamic vinigga :::#_#:::

BLAME THE CANCEL BUG $ (none / 1) (#54)
by LilDebbie on Mon May 26, 2008 at 09:21:53 AM EST



My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
It isn't actually a bug (none / 0) (#94)
by ray eckson on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:14:15 PM EST

Rusty disabled your ability to cancel to hide the fact that he was too lazy to fix an entirely different bug.


wampsy: hey ray why don't you start up a site. you could call it ray5.
rusty: I gotta fix that stupid cancel bug.
booger: How's that for daring to get ray eckson all sniffy, you cow?
poopy: Not that I'm gay or anything, but for you I might make an exception.
[ Parent ]
My 5 cent (none / 1) (#52)
by dhk on Mon May 26, 2008 at 07:58:50 AM EST

A real beginner's guide should mention the golden rule "To become faster, jog longer distances. Never try to run faster!"
Once you've reached a certain level, of course you need hill running, 400m sprints, intervalls and all that stuff. But all this is contraproductive if you can't, say, run for at least 60 minutes in moderate speed.

Stretching: There are controversies that should be mentioned on this issue. Some people maintain that stretching after an strenuous exercise carries an elevated risk of muscle rupture (myorrhexis). This is why I always advise NOT to stretch immediately after running (as you do), but to take at least a 5-10 minutes break (for walking around, re-hydrating etc.)

Food&Water: I love long jogs (1.5-2.5 hrs) in the morning BEFORE breakfast. This does wonders to your fat metabolism.

Psychology: You might want to add a section on how to overcome one's weak inner self. My recommendation: If you happen to find partners at your level, make FIX appointments. Stick to them regardless of weather conditions (or other weak excuses). If, however, your preferred partner is not on your level, then try a "bike&run" (one guy jogs, the other follows by bike, vary pace and interval size according to your respective fitness levels)
- please forgive my bad english, I'm not a native speaker
your golden rule is wrong (none / 0) (#55)
by LilDebbie on Mon May 26, 2008 at 09:25:42 AM EST

and most people take a few minutes cool down naturally. yes, you should not stretch the second you stop running. that said, one minute is sufficient time for your muscles to relax a bit from a run.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
Wrong? (none / 0) (#84)
by dhk on Tue May 27, 2008 at 02:31:33 PM EST

That is funny. How is it, then, that it is not only one of the mantras of quite a handful of good books on running, but also worked for a couple of guys I used to bring to a marathon level? And when I say "marathon" I'm not talking about 4:30something.

Are you honestly proposing that already a beginner should do sprints and fast intervals? Come on, be serious!
- please forgive my bad english, I'm not a native speaker
[ Parent ]
Scandinavia, da,da,da,daaaaaa (none / 0) (#98)
by Text to Consciousness Stream service v2 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:21:26 PM EST

<sung to the sound of Metallica's "Sanitarium">

[ Parent ]
Yup, absolutely wrong! (none / 0) (#109)
by joto on Mon Jun 16, 2008 at 10:40:34 PM EST

Fast as in sprinting 60 meters? Obviously the way to get fast at short distances is to run fast at short distances. Interval training is the key, as well as explosive strength workouts, jumping, uphill running, sled-pulling, and other general strength workouts..

And sprinting is certainly advisable to beginners. Sprinting brings the same health advantages as longer distance running, while reducing the wear and tear of the body. You won't damage your joints by sprinting, instead you'll strengthen them and condition the body for more training.

Or fast at running marathons? Running a marathon is very demanding. It's wearing the body down. You should run more moderate distances at a higher pace to condition your body, not wearing it out by running even longer. And before you have the correct technique, long distance running is even more damaging to the body.

60 minutes moderate jogging might be safe for most moderately fit people, but you certainly will get into shape faster with 60 minutes interval training. Also, try running somewhere the body will get variation, such as in the woods. And move around, have fun, jump some obstacles, turn some fast corners, speed up, speed down, etc... 60 minutes straight forward constant-pace asphalt running is only advisable for well-conditioned runners with healthy joints and correct technique, and even then I'm not really sure it's worth the damage it does to the body for the fitness benefits it gives.

Anyway, running a marathon is impressive, but it's not the epitome of fitness. Marathon runners are usually skinny weaklings who have sacrificed general fitness in order to be able to compete in a very specialized sport. The other extreme would be something like weightlifting, javelin throwing or sumo wrestling where everything is done in less than 5 seconds. General fitness lies somewhere in between those two extremes, and that's where most people who are not competing in specialized sports should stay.

Just because some athletes succeed despite less effective training, doesn't mean that everybody should follow their example. For general fitness benefits, sprinting and interval training will bring the greatest benefits at the lowest risk, which certainly should count for something if you're a beginner.

[ Parent ]

Thx... (none / 0) (#114)
by dhk on Fri Jul 25, 2008 at 03:00:11 AM EST

...for your remarks. I guess I can agree with the largest part of this, but I beg to differ in certain respects.
Obviously the way to get fast at short distances is to run fast at short distances.
This seems to be trivial, but in fact it is not. However, this is outside my line of reasoning. My point was that LilDebbie wrote a "beginners guide" and that for beginners running fast at short distances simply is not the goal. The goal for a beginner should be to be able to run for a considerable time, say one hour. To reach this goal, a great many factors have to be worked on: As you rightly point out, the wear and tear of the body has to be considered, but - and this is my point - also other factors including general fitness and especially mental strength. I have brought some adult beginners to run distances >10km from a state were they lost breath after some 100m. The key to that was a slow progression of the distances coupled with some exercises for technique and strength. When they reached a certain level, I also did all the things you advise like sprints, uphill running and such.
I agree with you that running a marathon is not the highest goal if you look for fitness (although it is an important mental factor if you mastered it), and this is why I always encourage to balance the running exercises with e.g. biking, swimming etc.

So the only point where we really differ is whether your exercises should be done by a beginner. Your argument (less risk) is certainly valid, but you should consider the mental factors, too: My experience is that I can keep motivation high by running incrementally longer distances. My second argument would be that in order to trigger fat metabolism, longer distances at a low speed are far more effective than sprints which bring you into an anaerobic situation fast.
- please forgive my bad english, I'm not a native speaker
[ Parent ]
My two cents (3.00 / 2) (#56)
by sudogeek on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:18:17 PM EST

As a high school and college cross-country runner, I think you need to pay more attention to the shoes. Take a neutral stock pair (Asics, New Balance, etc) and run with them for a month. Now take the shoes to someone who knows. The wear pattern on the sole can determine how you land and push off (pronation, supination, etc.). You can them get a pair of shoes designed for this - it makes a huge difference if you are exceeding 25 miles a week.

For practice, I recommend running just beside the cart path of your local golf course. Most courses run 6000-7000 yards which is about 4 miles - a good nightly run. You can run early or after close - I've asked at the pro shop and have never been turned down. Running of the beach is not recommended - there is usually a slope and the wet sand down above the water is quite hard. It will take it's toll on your ankles, I can attest.

You're an arrogant, condescending, ignorant dipshit. - trhurler

I deliberately avoided shoes (none / 0) (#58)
by LilDebbie on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:37:33 PM EST

as that only tends to devolve into an Asics/New Balance bitch contest. Listen to the people at local neighborhood running store and they'll bore you to death with info on shoes.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
True. (none / 0) (#59)
by sudogeek on Mon May 26, 2008 at 12:43:26 PM EST

And, for the most part, Asics and New Balance shoes are neutral, and most people have a neutral strike. I have a pronounced pronation gait, which I correct with custom orthotics.

I used to use New Balance exclusively (because they were made in the US), but that's no longer the case. Now, any reasonable brand that's on clearance will do. They generally fall apart in 6 months hard use anyway.

You're an arrogant, condescending, ignorant dipshit. - trhurler
[ Parent ]

6 months? (none / 0) (#61)
by LilDebbie on Mon May 26, 2008 at 01:10:14 PM EST

damn, you doing five miles a day everyday or what?

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
Just about. (n/t) (none / 1) (#64)
by sudogeek on Mon May 26, 2008 at 01:55:14 PM EST


You're an arrogant, condescending, ignorant dipshit. - trhurler
[ Parent ]
bully $ (none / 0) (#65)
by LilDebbie on Mon May 26, 2008 at 02:12:03 PM EST



My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
5miles? (none / 0) (#108)
by ZeroesAndOnes on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 04:35:36 AM EST

I run more than that most days, and I've used the same shoes for nearly 3 years.  Brooks.  Like tanks, but I love them.
0000 1001 1010 1101
[ Parent ]
shoes... (none / 0) (#110)
by bankind on Sun Jun 22, 2008 at 04:00:42 AM EST

shame I think there is a good deal to go into... in particular I can't stand either. I can see how they might work well in more temperate climate, but since I run in the tropics I can't run in all that leather shit.

I just can't take roll with them hot boxes for things like this:
http://www.angkormarathon.org/

I used to run in Saucony, but I haven't liked them in 10 years, during which time I got hooked on a discontinued model of the early reebok DMXs that came out about 7 years ago. All mesh, lightweight and very responsive.

I built up a stockpile, and preserved them well by only running in them, but I'm afraid they all about run out.

"Insurgents are blowing up pipelines and police stations, geysers of sewage are erupting from the streets, and the electricity is off most of the time -- but we've given Iraq the gift of supply-side economics." -Krugman
[ Parent ]

Insults user base +1FP$ (3.00 / 2) (#60)
by Smiley K on Mon May 26, 2008 at 01:02:48 PM EST


-- Someone set up us the bomb.
I'm glad someone appreciates it $ (none / 0) (#62)
by LilDebbie on Mon May 26, 2008 at 01:39:56 PM EST



My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
Great article (none / 1) (#66)
by Big Sexxy Joe on Mon May 26, 2008 at 02:13:32 PM EST

I stopped trying to run due to shin splints.  I assumed I was just too heavy.  I now realize that I get them from landing on the balls of my feet, so I might go out for a short run today.

However, you say don't run for weight loss, but bike instead.  I recently took up biking, but I'm curious about why you say one shouldn't run for weight loss.  Conventional wisdom is that running is a great way to lose weight.  Why do you say not to?

I'm like Jesus, only better.
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free grassroots news hour

you can usually keep it up longer (3.00 / 3) (#71)
by Delirium on Mon May 26, 2008 at 06:07:09 PM EST

Running at around a 9-10-minute mile pace burns about twice as many calories per minute as biking at 10 mph does, but for most people it's easier to keep the biking up for more than twice as long. Plus it's easier on the joints.

[ Parent ]
Good point (none / 0) (#74)
by Big Sexxy Joe on Mon May 26, 2008 at 08:31:00 PM EST

I have trouble running, but I figured it's all the balls of the feet thing.  

I'm still curious about his reasoning and if he thinks biking is simply a bit better, or if he thinks running is altogether ineffective for weight loss.

I'm like Jesus, only better.
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free grassroots news hour
[ Parent ]

Also (none / 0) (#87)
by rusty on Wed May 28, 2008 at 11:01:05 AM EST

Running with a lot of extra body weight is likely to thrash your joints fast. Which Delirium mentioned too, but I think deserves a lot of emphasis. You can lose weight running, definitely, but if you're significantly overweight to start with, spare your knees and lose the weight on a bike first.

5-10 pounds, probably don't worry about it. More than that, you're risking serious issues later on.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

swimming? (none / 0) (#115)
by svenalope on Tue Dec 23, 2008 at 03:20:20 AM EST

might i suggest swimming instead of of biking?  besides having heard that swimming is pretty much neutral stress/benefit for your joints, in my own experience, biking is so variable as far as effort vs output (you think you're gaining a tiny amount of distance for a massive amount of effort uphill) that the object of the exercise becomes finish it all, whereas with swimming it's more like finish the next length in a reasonable time, long story short i've biked my hips to lying down before standing again and swimming is much more aerobic and psychological; in good shape i hobble home (in the morning is when i swim) and besides feeling well-exercised and energetic the whole day, i feel nothing else from the swimming (no soreness).  pardon the less than topical lucidity (hammered on boilermakers and pipe-tobacco, although this isn't a big lifestyle change from when i'm swimming), but the point of this all is that let's someone write a primer on biking and why not swimming while you (k5) are at it, because i'm not expert on either.

[ Parent ]
You swim daily? (none / 0) (#116)
by rusty on Tue Dec 23, 2008 at 10:42:21 AM EST

If so, or even daily-ish, you're enough of an expert to write a K5 article on it. Think about the incidental stuff -- finding a pool, pool and changing etiquette, managing time with work and whatnot, and do a little reading on technique and training styles. It'd probably help you anyway.

It would be a pain for me to swim. I'd either have to always wear a wetsuit and swim in the ocean (and even then, winter would be out) or drive a car somewhere to get to a pool. So I don't really do it. I also spent too much time in boats and surfing to really enjoy swimming. It always feels like I'm sinking too much. Hence the biking suggestion. But swimming, if practical, is even better for low-stress and high exercise, you're right.

____
Not the real rusty
[ Parent ]

nah twice a week at best (none / 0) (#117)
by svenalope on Thu Dec 25, 2008 at 03:44:25 AM EST

it's easy for me because i'm a university student, free gym and all that, i go with a friend who swam competitively in high school so i consider myself quite an amateur, i swim a couple hundred meters less than he does and skip the goggles, but as we go i find myself catching up to him, long story short you leave me curious and i'll give even odds that i do some research, look at my technique and talk to some friends, maybe i'll even work out an article as you suggest.  worst case i guess i'll draw a lot of flaming, better if i can make you people who are so crazy on running and cycling consider swimming and tell me what i'm doing wrong.  don't be surprised then if i post on the virtues of swimming and all that in the coming months.

[ Parent ]
fuck either of them (3.00 / 2) (#73)
by ray eckson on Mon May 26, 2008 at 08:14:44 PM EST

do high intensity interval sprints on your cardio exercise of choice; swimming, running, biking, whatever.

it will thrash your ass into shape and make you feel like someone's been using your worthless ass for a taiko drum, too.


wampsy: hey ray why don't you start up a site. you could call it ray5.
rusty: I gotta fix that stupid cancel bug.
booger: How's that for daring to get ray eckson all sniffy, you cow?
poopy: Not that I'm gay or anything, but for you I might make an exception.
[ Parent ]

running will more likely put you anaerobic (3.00 / 4) (#76)
by LilDebbie on Mon May 26, 2008 at 08:49:12 PM EST

and if you want to lose weight, you want to stay in the aerobic range for maximum effect. biking is a much better way to do that.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
Well that depends (none / 0) (#78)
by Big Sexxy Joe on Mon May 26, 2008 at 09:55:35 PM EST

On whether you are sprinting or distance running.  And a lot of strength training advocates like to point out that sprinters average lower body fat than marathoners.  So anaerobic is the way to go, according to them.

I'm like Jesus, only better.
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free grassroots news hour
[ Parent ]
we're talking about running for weight loss (none / 0) (#79)
by LilDebbie on Tue May 27, 2008 at 07:52:28 AM EST

do try to keep up

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
I guess I was thinking of fat loss (none / 0) (#91)
by Big Sexxy Joe on Wed May 28, 2008 at 10:04:05 PM EST

I'm not interested in water weight or whatever.

I'm like Jesus, only better.
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free grassroots news hour
[ Parent ]
I've had problems with shin splints... (none / 0) (#111)
by nate s on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 04:37:11 PM EST

And I'm pretty heavy - about 225 lbs.  There are a few things based on a lot of research which I've found help me.

Granted, a couple of specifics: 1) I'm a toe runner, and 2) I supinate fairly badly (land on the outside edge of my feet when I walk/run), both of which increase the risk.  And 3) I naturally have a severe imbalance between my calves and shin muscles, so that's another risk factor for shin splints (specifically the anterolateral variety which are what I tend to get).  4) Poor hamstring/calf/ankle flexibility doesn't help.

I've found a few things helped with this...I dialed back my running to pretty slow (8-9 minute) miles for a while and kept the mileage really low, and very slowly worked up the pace and the distance again over a few months.  My typical run is about 2-3 miles these days at a 7:00 or 7:30 - it's not that much, but I'm afraid to push it so I imagine it'll be next year before it gets much higher.

Secondly, I have been religious about stretches, and those alphabet stretches where you slowly write the alphabet with your feet using full range-of-motion from the ankles seems to have helped a LOT, as has working on my hamstring/calf flexibility.  Never underestimate the power of stretching.  Dunno if any of this will help you, but it's something to think about.  I run in Asics gel shoes these days too; the Saucony shoes I used to run in did nothing for me.

[ Parent ]

I just came back from a 2 mile sprint (none / 1) (#67)
by tetsuwan on Mon May 26, 2008 at 02:59:35 PM EST

Nothing serious, just to gauge my joints after a few years brake from running. It felt great, actually. I tried the breathing thing, and while it's very hard for me to breath through my nose when running, it was refreshing to breath with a slower rhythm.

The route was to the local brook and back. It has been raining quite a lot today, so it was harder to jump over the brook than it usually is. I did some careful stretching and warming-up half way.

Njal's Saga: Just like Romeo & Juliet without the romance

do not eat right before you run or you will puke (none / 0) (#68)
by strathmeyer on Mon May 26, 2008 at 04:38:15 PM EST

Stop binge eating, fatass.

Oh well... (none / 1) (#69)
by sterno on Mon May 26, 2008 at 05:03:32 PM EST

Running for Weight Loss

Don't. Get a bike instead.

Damn, wish I'd read that before I lost those 50lbs running.  

seriously (none / 0) (#80)
by j1mmy on Tue May 27, 2008 at 07:57:54 AM EST

i lost 30 running and documented it all here, many years ago. never lost a pound by biking.

[ Parent ]
It must be the shoes (3.00 / 2) (#70)
by sterno on Mon May 26, 2008 at 05:10:13 PM EST

A lengthy article on running and you forget one of the most critical pieces: GOOD SHOES!

If you happen to have a perfect runner's stride and run on grass all the time, then maybe this is less critical.  But if your stride is off in some fashion, or if you do run on concrete or hard surfaces, you need to have good shoes.

There are dedicated running stores that you can go to that can help you find good shoes.  They'll have you run a little bit, and then look at your gait.  If you require additional support they can recommend it.  You'll end up with a good pair of shoes, not much more expensive than what you'd get at a generic athletic place, and you'll save yourself a lot of pain later.

Also, if you do find you're having joint problems, go see somebody about it sooner rather than later.  There are any number of things that can help correct this.  For example, I was having some knee issues.  Turned out I was not stretching my IT-Band properly.  I learned some new stretches and it's been fine ever since.  You might also need orthotics or something like that.

If you want to run and want to enjoy it pain free, start with a good pair of shoes and you'll be a lot happier.

it isn't the only thing he omitted (none / 1) (#72)
by ray eckson on Mon May 26, 2008 at 08:13:08 PM EST

crap 'article' is crap


wampsy: hey ray why don't you start up a site. you could call it ray5.
rusty: I gotta fix that stupid cancel bug.
booger: How's that for daring to get ray eckson all sniffy, you cow?
poopy: Not that I'm gay or anything, but for you I might make an exception.
[ Parent ]
ruston to the rescue (none / 0) (#86)
by LilDebbie on Tue May 27, 2008 at 08:46:55 PM EST

bizitches.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
you are a poor authority (2.50 / 4) (#75)
by loteck on Mon May 26, 2008 at 08:46:26 PM EST

some of this is right, some of it is in dispute, some of it is wrong.

people should probably do some more of their own research on this one. always beware nerds posing as authorities on any non-nerd topics.
--
"You're in tune to the musical sound of loteck hi-fi, the musical sound that moves right round. Keep on moving ya'll." -Mylakovich
"WHAT AN ETERNAL MOBIUS STRIP OF FELLATIATIC BANALITY THIS IS." -Harry B Otch

did you miss the 'too lazy to google' part? (3.00 / 6) (#77)
by LilDebbie on Mon May 26, 2008 at 08:50:27 PM EST

or maybe it was the part where NO ONE ELSE WAS WRITING AN ARTICLE ON THIS TOPIC SO BE HAPPY WITH WHAT YOU GET OR WRITE ONE YOURSELF.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
Still... (none / 1) (#93)
by dhk on Thu May 29, 2008 at 07:55:46 AM EST

If we - just for the purpose of the argument - accept that you're wrong in some parts of the article (as loteck seems to maintain), then I'd think that your excuse "this is for the people too lazy to google" really misses the point.

If it's wrong, it's wrong. And that anybody capable of typing "beginner running guide" into the google search window gets better info, makes it worse.
So you'd better start to refute lotecks accusations. Which he - admittedly - should state a bit more specific...
- please forgive my bad english, I'm not a native speaker
[ Parent ]
i see you failed to appreciate the connotation (none / 0) (#95)
by LilDebbie on Thu May 29, 2008 at 06:08:45 PM EST

let me hammer it in for you:

this was written as a public service. if you don't like it, kindly fuck yourself. i have zero interest in convincing anyone of anything on this subject.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]

Give a man a hammer... (none / 1) (#101)
by dhk on Fri May 30, 2008 at 07:22:58 AM EST

..and he'll see the world as a set of nails.

So, in order to keep the frame of reference, let me hammer back: Criticism is something that can be also regarded as a service. It is an offer to make things better, in this case: Harden your article against the argument that it contains simple, plain errors.

You, however, don't seem to have any interest in that. You seem to think that, since it is a "public service", any desire to improve it is unfounded. OK. If that is your way to see the world, I guess, you have found a way to be happy with it. Go on.
- please forgive my bad english, I'm not a native speaker
[ Parent ]
no (none / 0) (#102)
by LilDebbie on Fri May 30, 2008 at 08:18:15 AM EST

because it is a public service, i find your desire for me to improve it unfounded. my desire to improve it is unfounded because i have no desire to improve it.

is this getting through to you?

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]

the public thanks you for your service (none / 0) (#103)
by loteck on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:12:51 PM EST

of lies and misinformation, and hopes that you'll just shut the fuck up in the future.
--
"You're in tune to the musical sound of loteck hi-fi, the musical sound that moves right round. Keep on moving ya'll." -Mylakovich
"WHAT AN ETERNAL MOBIUS STRIP OF FELLATIATIC BANALITY THIS IS." -Harry B Otch

[ Parent ]
how to run properly (2.25 / 4) (#85)
by d0ink on Tue May 27, 2008 at 03:36:06 PM EST

  1. purchase caged bear.
  2. taunt caged bear.
  3. go change into running clothes then come back and taunt the bear some more.
  4. release enraged bear and immmediately:
  5. begin running. the combination of adrenaline and fear molecules coursing through your brain should cause your body to naturally assume a physiologically optimal running posture.
  6. try not to get killed.
  7. stop running once you have escaped the bear.
  8. try running without the bear.
  9. if your posture still seems off, purchase another bear and repeat steps 1-8.


Could work (none / 0) (#89)
by levesque on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:44:01 PM EST

But as you said the procedure might not end with the kind of long term change desired.

Good posture and "bad posture" ("bad posture" meaning a posture that is not efficiently adapted to the task at hand) are mainly under the control of the ANS. This implies that posture is not easily subject to conscious change.

Body & mature behavior -A study of anxiety, sex, gravitation & learning

It's basically a series of lectures given in 1943 and 1944 by M. Feldenkrais it and touches on things like muscle tone, the ANS, and conscious change. It's turned into a bit of a fad with the way some people are presenting it --The Feldenkrais Method®-- but the science behind it is interesting.

[ Parent ]

Vary your animal. (3.00 / 2) (#92)
by TDS on Thu May 29, 2008 at 12:00:23 AM EST

For fatties a Tortoise with rabies could be a gentle introduction whereas Olympians may want to get an agitated Lynx. For posture animals could be carefully chosen, for example if you are slouching (and so pushing your butt out) an angry German Shepherd snapping at it could be thing. If you are too straight, then perhaps a wild stag trying to impale you on its antlers etc. etc.

And when we die, we will die with our hands unbound. This is why we fight.
[ Parent ]
hUm (none / 0) (#96)
by levesque on Thu May 29, 2008 at 06:48:00 PM EST

Probably less lethal but, all other factors remaining stable, wouldn't you always need the animal to perform.

(I'm assuming the ideal is to get rid of the intrusive bad posture but not temporally with fear, or not by adding a counter force on top of the unbalanced (for running) muscle tone; cause that would just be a waste of limited energy)

[ Parent ]

more posture stuff (none / 1) (#88)
by ray eckson on Wed May 28, 2008 at 04:18:06 PM EST

http://www.internetfitness.com/articles/running_posture.htm


wampsy: hey ray why don't you start up a site. you could call it ray5.
rusty: I gotta fix that stupid cancel bug.
booger: How's that for daring to get ray eckson all sniffy, you cow?
poopy: Not that I'm gay or anything, but for you I might make an exception.
this is all bullshit (none / 0) (#90)
by the77x42 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 08:02:35 PM EST

none of you nerds will ever run unless i'm trying to steal your lunch money (or lunch) or the latest WoW expansion just came out in stores.


"We're not here to educate. We're here to point and laugh." - creature
"You have some pretty stupid ideas." - indubitable ‮

hay d00d (2.00 / 3) (#97)
by d0ink on Thu May 29, 2008 at 07:03:01 PM EST

in case you haven't seen, you got MeFi linkage, fwiw. predictably, the very first comment is someone getting upset about using bad words.

actually he's getting slammed (none / 0) (#99)
by ray eckson on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:13:33 AM EST

for inaccuracy, shitty writing, and general inadequacy.

classic k5 + mefi!


wampsy: hey ray why don't you start up a site. you could call it ray5.
rusty: I gotta fix that stupid cancel bug.
booger: How's that for daring to get ray eckson all sniffy, you cow?
poopy: Not that I'm gay or anything, but for you I might make an exception.
[ Parent ]

That MeFi crowd (none / 0) (#100)
by Spendocrat on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:57:33 AM EST

Is a pretty big gong show. I thought K5 users were nerds, but we've been handily out-done.

[ Parent ]
i love all the attacks on my accuracy (none / 0) (#105)
by LilDebbie on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 10:01:02 AM EST

"the truth is that "serious runners" are the least likely to stretch. Anyone who's spent any time at a local 5k would know that."

is this what passes for trolling on mefi?

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]

No shit, that was so ridiculous I cant even rate (none / 0) (#106)
by Strom Thurmond on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:01:22 PM EST

it a serious try.

VEGETARIAN: An Indian word meaning "lousy hunter"
[ Parent ]

ror (none / 0) (#104)
by LilDebbie on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 09:58:28 AM EST

"This is not okay."

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
I used to run (none / 1) (#112)
by Maurkov on Fri Jul 18, 2008 at 12:44:46 AM EST

Now I crossfit.  There's a place for long distance in a fitness regime, but not a major one.  I'll never be a world class athlete, but I'm better off now than I was.  Running does little for strength, but strength training can help your running.  I wish I had known that fifteen years ago. Even with perfect form, running is hard on your joints.  Not many people continue to put in 35 miles a week on into their fifties.  When your knees go, its too late to switch.  I didn't want to end up a fat ex-runner.

oh for sure (none / 0) (#113)
by LilDebbie on Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 09:37:06 PM EST

but my expertise happens to be running. personally, i've had far better results with weight lifting.

My name is LilDebbie and I have a garden.
- hugin -

[ Parent ]
A Runner's Primer | 117 comments (84 topical, 33 editorial, 0 hidden)
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